• Victory and Glory

    From dougb@21:1/5 to eddys...@hotmail.com on Wed Dec 2 07:40:33 2015
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 2:32:43 AM UTC-5, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 2:25:38 AM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Looks good Eddy, yep those board war game prices can be steep.

    I know - the thing is that I can't figure out why they are. Board wargame publishers mumble something about limited print runs driving up the price, but I know for a fact many wargame print runs are higher than those for many ameritrash or eurogames -
    and when you start comparing content ameritrash usually has miniatures and eurogames wooden components, while 95% of wargames out there are simply nothing but cardboard.

    Board wargame prices are higher because wargamers are willing to pay more is the closest I've come to an explanation.

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx

    I've been told the margins are pretty tight on wargames even with high prices and have I have accepted that. I've not seen any data however to objectively verify that so I'm pretty much taking it on trust. It's a small market and I'm not sure there
    would be too much price elasticity to demand for these niche products.

    Doug
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  • From dougb@21:1/5 to Giftzwerg on Wed Dec 2 07:42:52 2015
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-5, Giftzwerg wrote:
    In article <23d29589-58b4-448e-9df7-83ff9010536d@googlegroups.com>, eddysterckx@hotmail.com says...

    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 2:25:38 AM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Looks good Eddy, yep those board war game prices can be steep.

    I know - the thing is that I can't figure out why they are. Board wargame publishers mumble something about limited print runs driving up the price, but I know for a fact many wargame print runs are higher than those for many ameritrash or eurogames -
    and when you start comparing content ameritrash usually has miniatures and eurogames wooden components, while 95% of wargames out there are simply nothing but cardboard.

    Board wargame prices are higher because wargamers are willing to pay more is the closest I've come to an explanation.

    I do like the idea of a *strategic* Napoleonic PC wargame. I'd be interested to see this done right - for once.

    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    "As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
    - Washington Times

    Another item in the pot at the end of the rainbow would be a corps level Russian Front game done right on the pc - we've been speculating and wishing for that for what 10+ years now?

    Doug
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to Giftzwerg on Thu Dec 3 02:13:50 2015
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 3:40:20 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:
    In article <23d29589-58b4-448e-9df7-83ff9010536d@googlegroups.com>, eddysterckx@hotmail.com says...

    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 2:25:38 AM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Looks good Eddy, yep those board war game prices can be steep.

    I know - the thing is that I can't figure out why they are. Board wargame publishers mumble something about limited print runs driving up the price, but I know for a fact many wargame print runs are higher than those for many ameritrash or eurogames -
    and when you start comparing content ameritrash usually has miniatures and eurogames wooden components, while 95% of wargames out there are simply nothing but cardboard.

    Board wargame prices are higher because wargamers are willing to pay more is the closest I've come to an explanation.

    I do like the idea of a *strategic* Napoleonic PC wargame. I'd be interested to see this done right - for once.

    Should play exactly like the cardboard version. As to being done right I can't say, but the designer is the same guy who did Age of Empires III, a very respected boardgame and he's nuts about Napoleonics, so wait and see.

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to dougb on Thu Dec 3 02:28:29 2015
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Another item in the pot at the end of the rainbow would be a corps level Russian Front game done right on the pc - we've been speculating and wishing for that for what 10+ years now?

    War in Russia got released in 1993

    Your best bet now would be Carl Paradis releasing a tablet version of No Retreat series but I know his day job is currently stalling him on 2 ongoing boardgame projects (*)

    Anyway, there's no shortage of recent grand strategic titles in the cardboard world - FTF or Vassal & Skype is all you need to play.

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx

    (*) funny how one can easily find out this kind of stuff from board wargame designers, yet nobody knows shit about what digital designers are working on.
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to eddys...@hotmail.com on Fri Dec 4 05:41:51 2015
    On Thursday, December 3, 2015 at 11:28:30 AM UTC+1, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:

    Anyway, there's no shortage of recent grand strategic titles in the cardboard world - FTF or Vassal & Skype is all you need to play.

    Stumbled across a comparative review of 4 grand strategic ETO games in the last Vae Victis magazine - it compares Krieg, Unconditional Surrender, Europe Engulfed and Supreme Commander - all relatively light-weight, but a "clash of the monsters" was
    announced for a future issue.

    After reading the article I took a closer look at Europe Engulfed and it made my "want" list.

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to Giftzwerg on Fri Dec 4 05:00:13 2015
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 3:40:20 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:

    I do like the idea of a *strategic* Napoleonic PC wargame. I'd be interested to see this done right - for once.

    A first report from the pc version (beta) by Scott MacPhee:

    http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1483779/first-plays

    "I got a chance to play the beta of the PC version. The rules will be the same in the board game.

    This is a fantastic game that makes for plausible history. One player takes the role of Napoleon. The other player controls Britain.

    The other major nations (Austria, Prussia, Russia, Spain, and the Ottoman Empire) have diplomatic ratings that both players can affect through card play. Britain sends subsidies to reduce their ratings. Once the rating drops to zero, Britain has a chance
    to bring that nation into an anti-Napoleonic coalition. Napoleon can raise or lower their diplomatic ratings by spreading revolutionary ideals or marrying into their royal families. If Napoleon feels a major nation's army is growing too large, he may be
    able to stage a preemptive war.

    The result is a constantly shifting set of challenges for the French player. When you consider that Britain can use her naval supremacy to threaten France along the periphery of the empire, Napoleon spends much of the game putting out various fires. But
    he can seize the initiative as well, stirring up revolts in Ireland, subverting Britain's allies, and adding new territories.

    The tactical game-within-a-game is also a lot of fun. When armies clash, one of two battle boards is used, depending on the size of the fight. The results reward proper combined arms tactics. It's an elegant little system that feels like a Napoleonic
    battle without getting bogged down in detail.

    With different event card draws, every game will work out differently. I have played it three times now and got three very different results.

    In the first, Napoleon was killed when I committed my last unit of guard infantry to defend Paris against a British landing in 1807. In my second, I was able to beat up repeatedly on Austria, force a peace on Russia, turn Prussia into a friendly power,
    and avoid war with Spain. Total victory. In the third, I did make the mistake of invading Russia, only to see Napoleon's force melt away due to attrition cards. I was able to avoid the Spanish Ulcer in all three games, as Spain never declared against me.

    I am very excited to get my hands on the board game version. I can see myself playing this one for years to come."

    -

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From Big Salad@21:1/5 to Giftzwerg on Fri Dec 4 21:08:39 2015
    On 12/4/2015 8:14 PM, Giftzwerg wrote:
    AI? Ain't a PC game w/o AI.

    According to the Beta Sign up page,

    "The AI controls Great Britain and the other allied nations and troops
    that comprise an ever-changing alliance bent on stopping you!"
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to Big Salad on Sat Dec 5 01:57:42 2015
    On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 3:09:00 AM UTC+1, Big Salad wrote:
    On 12/4/2015 8:14 PM, Giftzwerg wrote:
    AI? Ain't a PC game w/o AI.

    According to the Beta Sign up page,

    "The AI controls Great Britain and the other allied nations and troops
    that comprise an ever-changing alliance bent on stopping you!"

    French player against Allied AI only, but the designer has said they made the decision to focus on that AI first and later make the other one - sales permitting - a "better one really good AI than 2 mediocre ones" plan that might work given that most
    gamers will want to play the French anyway.

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From Giftzwerg@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 4 20:14:29 2015
    In article <fea5b1d4-ce3b-4e4c-a018-191e6ab8422f@googlegroups.com>, eddysterckx@hotmail.com says...

    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 3:40:20 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:

    I do like the idea of a *strategic* Napoleonic PC wargame. I'd be interested to see this done right - for once.

    A first report from the pc version (beta) by Scott MacPhee:

    http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1483779/first-plays

    "I got a chance to play the beta of the PC version. The rules will be the same in the board game.

    This is a fantastic game that makes for plausible history. One player takes the role of Napoleon. The other player controls Britain.

    The other major nations (Austria, Prussia, Russia, Spain, and the Ottoman Empire) have diplomatic ratings that both players can affect through card play. Britain sends subsidies to reduce their ratings. Once the rating drops to zero, Britain has a
    chance to bring that nation into an anti-Napoleonic coalition. Napoleon can raise or lower their diplomatic ratings by spreading revolutionary ideals or marrying into their royal families. If Napoleon feels a major nation's
    army is growing too large, he may be able to stage a preemptive war.

    The result is a constantly shifting set of challenges for the French player. When you consider that Britain can use her naval supremacy to threaten France along the periphery of the empire, Napoleon spends much of the game putting out various fires.
    But he can seize the initiative as well, stirring up revolts in Ireland, subverting Britain's allies, and adding new territories.

    The tactical game-within-a-game is also a lot of fun. When armies clash, one of two battle boards is used, depending on the size of the fight. The results reward proper combined arms tactics. It's an elegant little system that feels like a Napoleonic
    battle without getting bogged down in detail.

    With different event card draws, every game will work out differently. I have played it three times now and got three very different results.

    In the first, Napoleon was killed when I committed my last unit of guard infantry to defend Paris against a British landing in 1807. In my second, I was able to beat up repeatedly on Austria, force a peace on Russia, turn Prussia into a friendly power,
    and avoid war with Spain. Total victory. In the third, I did make the mistake of invading Russia, only to see Napoleon's force melt away due to attrition cards. I was able to avoid the Spanish Ulcer in all three games, as
    Spain never declared against me.

    I am very excited to get my hands on the board game version. I can see myself playing this one for years to come."


    AI? Ain't a PC game w/o AI.



    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    "As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
    - Washington Times
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  • From Giftzwerg@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 5 17:02:06 2015
    In article <f86b7d95-516b-4fd6-9d24-53dc20422c80@googlegroups.com>, eddysterckx@hotmail.com says...

    According to the Beta Sign up page,

    "The AI controls Great Britain and the other allied nations and troops
    that comprise an ever-changing alliance bent on stopping you!"

    French player against Allied AI only, but the designer has said they made the decision to focus on that AI first and later make the other one - sales permitting - a "better one really good AI than 2 mediocre ones" plan that might work given that most
    gamers will want to play the French anyway.

    Wise decision. Limited beats the crap outta full-ranging crapware.

    I would get this, but ... FALLOUT4. This game is just outta control
    good. I've play 75 hours, according to Steam, and I'm barely out of
    Sanctuary.

    Bethesda is fucking epic. When I'm standing in a window getting ready
    to blaze away at some Raiders with my minigun ... and notice there's a Deathclaw among them. Well, "let's you and him fight" is always the
    correct decision. Kakking out the Deathclaw later on was trouble, of
    course, but not so awful after looting all the Raiders it "terminated
    with extreme prejudice."

    And what a beautiful game. I'm still stunned.


    --
    Giftzwerg
    ***
    "As Barack 'Eldrick' Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his election as president, here?s a fact to put that into perspective: Since January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf."
    - Washington Times
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to dougb on Mon Dec 7 02:46:35 2015
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Another item in the pot at the end of the rainbow would be a corps level Russian Front game done right on the pc - we've been speculating and wishing for that for what 10+ years now?

    You might want to take a look at this :

    http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3982063

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to Giftzwerg on Mon Dec 7 02:53:05 2015
    On Saturday, December 5, 2015 at 11:02:48 PM UTC+1, Giftzwerg wrote:

    I would get this, but ... FALLOUT4. This game is just outta control
    good. I've play 75 hours, according to Steam, and I'm barely out of Sanctuary.

    My current 15-minute digital entertainment of choice is a dirt track racing game on the X-Box - add to that a 55 inch tv, a 3D soundbar with subwoofer and a force-feedback controller and immersion is total :)

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From dougb@21:1/5 to eddys...@hotmail.com on Mon Dec 7 06:12:25 2015
    On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 5:46:37 AM UTC-5, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Another item in the pot at the end of the rainbow would be a corps level Russian Front game done right on the pc - we've been speculating and wishing for that for what 10+ years now?

    You might want to take a look at this :

    http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3982063

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx

    Boy didn't think it was possible to make the Tiller graphics look good by comparison! - though I understand from reading the creators post that the final release will have better looking graphics.

    Dunno Eddy - not like there's much in the way of alternatives for a pc wargame with AI at that level. I wish it used hexes instead of a square grid but I'd be willing to give it a chance.

    I wish the PC wargames had the same attention to graphic attractiveness as the board wargames. When you're spending hours working with a screen it helps when that screen is attractive.

    Still any pc wargame is going to be hard pressed to provide the same enjoyment to me that my current campaign of Victory Roads is providing as a 4 player game played using Vassal and Skype.

    Doug
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  • From eddysterckx@hotmail.com@21:1/5 to dougb on Mon Dec 7 07:11:34 2015
    On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 3:12:27 PM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Still any pc wargame is going to be hard pressed to provide the same enjoyment to me that my current campaign of Victory Roads is providing as a 4 player game played using Vassal and Skype.

    Preaching to the choir - live opponents beat anything digital - and thanks to our population density setting up FTF games is pretty easy - played a 5-player FTF game of Virgin Queen just a week ago and got a FTF meetup with 3 other wargamers on Wednesday.
    Probably going to play a Napoleonic battle prototype from David Kershaw - of digital wargame design fame :)

    Take a look at this and tell me digital wargames with crappy AI aren't in real trouble :

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tabletopia/tabletopia-the-digital-platform-for-board-games

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx
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  • From dougb@21:1/5 to eddys...@hotmail.com on Mon Dec 7 09:34:06 2015
    On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-5, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 3:12:27 PM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Still any pc wargame is going to be hard pressed to provide the same enjoyment to me that my current campaign of Victory Roads is providing as a 4 player game played using Vassal and Skype.

    Preaching to the choir - live opponents beat anything digital - and thanks to our population density setting up FTF games is pretty easy - played a 5-player FTF game of Virgin Queen just a week ago and got a FTF meetup with 3 other wargamers on
    Wednesday. Probably going to play a Napoleonic battle prototype from David Kershaw - of digital wargame design fame :)

    Take a look at this and tell me digital wargames with crappy AI aren't in real trouble :

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tabletopia/tabletopia-the-digital-platform-for-board-games

    Greetz,

    Eddy Sterckx

    That's impressive. I think it's partly the crappy AI but in large part the digital wargames (not all) suffer from weak production quality. The digital artwork just doesn't rise to the same level that you see in many board war games. One of the team
    was asking why people were so unenthusiastic about the Barbarossa map. Well, he wouldn't ask if he was playing on some of the artistic masterpieces that are not at all uncommon in the board wargame world.

    In addition PC developer haven't really figured out a good way to support a live session where players can voice chat while playing their pc wargame. Yes you can fire up skype but then I can do that with my boardgame collection over Vassal. I really
    wish there had been more success in facilitating live sessions on the pc wargame side.

    Doug
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  • From Vincenzo Beretta@21:1/5 to eddys...@hotmail.com on Thu Dec 10 09:30:48 2015
    On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 11:46:37 AM UTC+1, eddys...@hotmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+1, dougb wrote:

    Another item in the pot at the end of the rainbow would be a corps level Russian Front game done right on the pc - we've been speculating and wishing for that for what 10+ years now?

    You might want to take a look at this :

    http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3982063

    It's amazing what good modding capabilities can do for you, isn't it? :D
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