• Please help PC guy with friend's Imac.

    From micky@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 1 22:06:54 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
    years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
    bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to
    learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
    16, but I know he emailed me after that.

    Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
    heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
    middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
    third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is
    mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines.
    Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
    line at the border.

    OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
    older or newer than the first one?

    Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
    bottom third of the screen?

    There would probably be financial and insurance information, and he left
    a widow, who is rather old also and not working. And we're not even
    sure where his assets, if any, are. His will lists 4 items and 2 of
    those he doesn't have anymore, so there may well be those he does have
    which aren't in the will.

    2 out of 4 times, it displayed a screen (1/3) with Finder in the upper
    left.

    If I can't get the computer working is there a way to export the email
    and files to a flash drive, for example, without much access to the
    screen. Or a way to remove the harddrive and run it as an external
    drive on another Mac? Or better yet, a PC? (I'm running out of space
    on my desk.)

    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    Periodically the screen goes black and when I move the mouse the image reappears. This time a little of the bottom row of icons showed
    through the haze, but 10 seconds later that part it was gone.

    Is there a way that I can speed up the mouse movement?

    Thanks a lot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Apr 2 03:27:41 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
    bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
    run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

    The G4s stop at 10.5.8. If it is a single white unit about 2 inches
    thick with a wide white chin, then it is a G5 iMac, but still limited to 10.5.8.

    If it is aluminum, then it is an Intel iMac and wed need more details.

    At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
    16, but I know he emailed me after that.

    Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
    heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
    middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
    third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines. Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
    line at the border.

    OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
    older or newer than the first one?

    Impossible to say. You've said the equivalent of "I have this car, it
    runs rough and it's a Ford. What year was it made?"

    Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
    bottom third of the screen?

    An external screen is a possibility, but more details are needed.

    People will need FAR more information on these machines.

    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634>

    Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

    --
    M is for MAUDE who was swept out to sea
    N is for NEVILLE who died of ennui

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com on Sat Apr 2 15:49:58 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
    bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
    16, but I know he emailed me after that.

    Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
    heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
    middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
    third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines. Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
    line at the border.

    OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
    older or newer than the first one?

    Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
    bottom third of the screen?

    There would probably be financial and insurance information, and he left
    a widow, who is rather old also and not working. And we're not even
    sure where his assets, if any, are. His will lists 4 items and 2 of
    those he doesn't have anymore, so there may well be those he does have
    which aren't in the will.

    2 out of 4 times, it displayed a screen (1/3) with Finder in the upper
    left.

    If I can't get the computer working is there a way to export the email
    and files to a flash drive, for example, without much access to the
    screen. Or a way to remove the harddrive and run it as an external
    drive on another Mac? Or better yet, a PC? (I'm running out of space
    on my desk.)

    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    Periodically the screen goes black and when I move the mouse the image reappears. This time a little of the bottom row of icons showed
    through the haze, but 10 seconds later that part it was gone.

    Is there a way that I can speed up the mouse movement?

    Thanks a lot.

    Sounds like a dead screen with a "cloudy" and "worse" display.

    The screen goes black because its power saving is set to either put the
    screen to sleep and / or start the screen saver after X minutes of
    inactivity. Moving the mouse is "activity" so the screen wakes up /
    screen saver stops.

    The row of icons along the bottom is the Dock (vaguely similar to
    Windoze's Start bar) which shows icons of some of the applications
    installed or running. The Dock can be set to "hide" when not needed -
    it appears when the mouse cursor is moved near the bottom of the screen
    and disappears when the mouse cursor is higher up the screen.

    Mouse movement may be able to be sped up by going into the mouse System Preference options, but that's going to be difficult if you can't see
    the screen properly.

    The hard drives could be removed, but depending on the exact models,
    it's a hassle and in newer iMac models you *REALLY* have to know what
    you're doing to put it back together again (which in some cases
    requires special glues, etc.), so not really advisable. Even if you
    remove it, you'll need to put it into a same model iMac to easily use
    it, although you can put it into an external case and plug it into any
    newer Mac to see the content of normal documents. and probably import
    emails.

    Plugging in an external screen will again depend on the exact model,
    but likely also require an adaptor of some sort.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Savageduck@21:1/5 to Lewis on Fri Apr 1 21:25:56 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

    In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
    years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
    bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to
    learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
    run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

    I believe he is talking model number not OS.
    I suspect this is the suspect: <http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

    The G4s stop at 10.5.8. If it is a single white unit about 2 inches
    thick with a wide white chin, then it is a G5 iMac, but still limited to 10.5.8.

    If it is aluminum, then it is an Intel iMac and wed need more details.

    At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
    16, but I know he emailed me after that.

    Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
    heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
    middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
    third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is
    mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines.
    Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
    line at the border.

    OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
    older or newer than the first one?

    Impossible to say. You've said the equivalent of "I have this car, it
    runs rough and it's a Ford. What year was it made?"

    Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
    bottom third of the screen?

    An external screen is a possibility, but more details are needed.

    People will need FAR more information on these machines.

    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634>

    Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

    He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or
    hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
    mirroring via mini-VGA.

    --
    Regards,

    Savageduck

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Micky@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 2 00:50:25 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
    wrote:


    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    I'm making progress on this part.

    It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
    iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
    Manual http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF

    The manual shows "VGA output
    Connect an external
    monitor for video
    mirroring using the
    Apple VGA adapter
    (available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
    the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

    Or is it just a cable? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter
    This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
    has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so. $29 from
    Apple. As little as 3 on ebay inc. shipping. Is this what I want: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DVI-to-VGA-Monitor-Video-convertor-adapter-Cable-For-Apple-Macbook-/151904796412?hash=item235e3b3efc:g:ptAAAOSwf-VWYSgL

    Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
    turn something on inside?

    BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
    thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
    CD drive!

    I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
    to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
    excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
    though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
    remembered that the monitor is no good.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Micky@21:1/5 to g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies on Sat Apr 2 00:56:53 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:27:41 -0000 (UTC), Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

    In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
    years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
    bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to
    learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    Is it a white base with an articulated arm?

    Yes. I should have said that.

    But I don't think that can
    run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

    I'll go check tomorrow night if he landlady will let me come.

    The G4s stop at 10.5.8. If it is a single white unit about 2 inches
    thick with a wide white chin, then it is a G5 iMac, but still limited to >10.5.8.

    If it is aluminum, then it is an Intel iMac and wed need more details.

    At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
    16, but I know he emailed me after that.

    Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
    heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
    middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
    third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is
    mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines.
    Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
    line at the border.

    OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
    older or newer than the first one?

    Impossible to say. You've said the equivalent of "I have this car, it
    runs rough and it's a Ford. What year was it made?"

    Right! So what year!

    Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
    bottom third of the screen?

    An external screen is a possibility, but more details are needed.

    People will need FAR more information on these machines.

    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201634>

    This page doesn't go all the way back to 15", but thanks anyhow, and
    we've setttled the model.

    Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

    Okay.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Micky@21:1/5 to savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com on Sat Apr 2 01:05:50 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:25:56 -0700, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

    In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
    years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a >>> bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to >>> learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
    run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

    I believe he is talking model number not OS.
    I suspect this is the suspect: ><http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

    Well, one size smaller than that. I also forgot to tell you the
    screen size. I'm a little panicky. Now that his brother is done, the
    landlady has hired someone to clean the place out Sunday morning, and
    I can't visit until Saturday night at the earliest.

    Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

    He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or
    hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
    mirroring via mini-VGA.

    Is mini-vga the same as mini-display ports? or iow, is this what I
    need to mirror, very similar to the other ebay item I gave in another
    post: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Displayport-Display-Port-To-VGA-adapter-Cable-for-Apple-Macbook-PC-M-VGA-OB-/281791697169?hash=item419c181111:g:unIAAOSwyQtV6ooN

    Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
    USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
    I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
    file files.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Empson@21:1/5 to Micky on Sat Apr 2 18:36:39 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
    wrote:


    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    I'm making progress on this part.

    It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
    iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
    Manual http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF

    The manual shows "VGA output
    Connect an external
    monitor for video
    mirroring using the
    Apple VGA adapter
    (available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
    the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

    No, it is an external adpater that Apple sold separately, which was discontinued a few years ago.

    The computer has a "Mini-VGA" port on the back. Look for a symbol like
    this above it: |[]|

    Mini-VGA is proprietary to Apple. The adapter is about a six inch cable
    with a Mini-VGA male at one end and standard D-sub 15 VGA socket at the
    other end.

    It looks like Amazon still has some for $1 (plus shipping):

    http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini-VGA-Display-Adaptor-Macs/dp/B000K183W6/

    An external display will mirror what the GPU is outputting. Assuming the display problem is with the internal cable or LCD panel, then an
    external one should work well enough.

    Or is it just a cable? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
    has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so.

    No, that's two generations too new: in later models Apple moved from
    Mini-VGA to Mini-DVI (around 2006), then Mini-DisplayPort (around 2009).
    Of the three, only Mini-DisplayPort has been reasonably widely adopted
    outside Apple products, as Apple donated it to the DisplayPort standard,
    and it is also used by Intel's Thunderbolt.

    Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
    turn something on inside?

    Given the right Mini-VGA adapter, plug it in and it will automatically
    mirror.

    With later models that were able to support an independent display, it
    would defalut to separate display mode, and you'd use a keyboard
    shortcut, shortcut menu or System Preferences to change the display configuration to mirrored.

    BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
    thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
    CD drive!

    I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
    to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
    excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
    though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
    remembered that the monitor is no good.


    --
    David Empson
    dempson@actrix.gen.nz

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com on Sat Apr 2 17:45:59 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <a3hufbt0nede5g5of147l3slbmm9rklfcc@4ax.com>, Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
    wrote:


    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    I'm making progress on this part.

    It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
    iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1 http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
    Manual http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF

    The manual shows "VGA output
    Connect an external
    monitor for video
    mirroring using the
    Apple VGA adapter
    (available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
    the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

    Or is it just a cable? http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
    has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so. $29 from
    Apple. As little as 3 on ebay inc. shipping. Is this what I want:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DVI-to-VGA-Monitor-Video-convertor-adapter-Cable-
    For-Apple-Macbook-/151904796412?hash=item235e3b3efc:g:ptAAAOSwf-VWYSgL

    Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
    turn something on inside?

    It will be a cable, probably with a small box, that plugs into one of
    the ports on the back of the domed base. If it's purely mirroring, then
    it will probably work without any changes to the system.



    BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
    thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
    CD drive!

    At this point I think it's time for you to hand the computers over to
    someone who knows what they're doing.



    I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
    to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
    excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
    though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
    remembered that the monitor is no good.

    If the screen is dead, then it's only worth selling to someone who
    wants parts. Realistically the amount you get will be peanuts and it's
    far easier to simply take the hard drive out and bin the rest.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com on Sat Apr 2 17:46:21 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>, Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
    USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
    I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
    file files.

    A Windoze PC can't read a Mac formatted drive without extra driver
    software. If you install that, then you can read the drive and see the
    files, but you won't be able to access any that are in Mac application
    only formats, and that includes Mail emails, AppleWorks documents, etc.
    (at least not without a lot of extra hassle converting, importing,
    ...).

    Best to plug the external drive into another Mac, but even then some
    old documents may be an issue to open (a new Intel Mac won't be able to
    run some of the old G4 applications and newer applications may not like
    the file formats).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to Savageduck on Sat Apr 2 07:39:03 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <2016040121255630105-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
    On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

    In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10
    years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a >>> bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to >>> learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
    run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

    I believe he is talking model number not OS.
    I suspect this is the suspect: <http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

    Could be, I forgot that the G4 iMacs where "PowerMac" and not "iMac"
    (and there is no iMac6,3).

    He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or
    hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
    mirroring via mini-VGA.

    Possibly, depending on what he has available to read those drives.


    --
    You Bastard was thinking: ...Delta squared. Thus, dimensional pressure k
    will result in a ninety-degree transformation in Chi(16/x/pu)t for a
    K-bundle of any three invariables. Or four minutes, plus or minus ten seconds... The camel looked down at the great pads of his feet. Let
    speed equal gallop. --Pyramids

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andreas Rutishauser@21:1/5 to micky on Sat Apr 2 08:12:36 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    Salut micky

    In article <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>,
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a
    bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town
    now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was?

    yes, was built between November 2003 and July 2004: iMac 20" USB 2.0)
    Original OS: 10.3, max OS 10.5.8

    At any rate, the incoming and outgoing email on it stopped about Jan.
    16, but I know he emailed me after that.

    Then he had another, with a smaller screen, also Imac, not nearly as
    heavy, it seems. I got that connected an hour ago, and so far, the
    middle third vertically of the monitor image is cloudy, and the lower
    third is even worse. It has a very clear line between the top, which is mostly blue, and the middle, which is white with various vertical lines. Right now the bottom third looks like the middle, but there is a black
    line at the border.

    OS X, it says in a splash screen in the middle of the screen. Is that
    older or newer than the first one?

    Is there any way to bring up the email and files if I can't read the
    bottom third of the screen?

    There would probably be financial and insurance information, and he left
    a widow, who is rather old also and not working. And we're not even
    sure where his assets, if any, are. His will lists 4 items and 2 of
    those he doesn't have anymore, so there may well be those he does have
    which aren't in the will.

    2 out of 4 times, it displayed a screen (1/3) with Finder in the upper
    left.

    If I can't get the computer working is there a way to export the email
    and files to a flash drive, for example, without much access to the
    screen. Or a way to remove the harddrive and run it as an external
    drive on another Mac? Or better yet, a PC? (I'm running out of space
    on my desk.)

    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
    iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1

    Ok, then they are about the same age

    The manual shows "VGA output
    Connect an external
    monitor for video
    mirroring using the
    Apple VGA adapter
    (available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
    the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

    Or is it just a cable?

    It is a cable, but not the one linked. Rather one like these (you might
    find a outlet in your country): <http://www.conrad.ch/ce/de/product/971926/APPLE-MINI-DVI-ZU-VGA-ADAPTER>

    If you can't access the display control panel, an exernal monitor will
    probably not do mirroring...

    Periodically the screen goes black and when I move the mouse the image reappears. This time a little of the bottom row of icons showed
    through the haze, but 10 seconds later that part it was gone.

    Probably power saving comin in...

    Is there a way that I can speed up the mouse movement?

    If you can access the mouse control panel, yes.

    I seee some possibilities
    - FireWire Target Disk mode to get access to files on the 15" iMac from
    the 20"
    - Swap the disk to the working iMac: <https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+G4+15-Inch+700+MHz+EMC+1873+Hard+Drive +Replacement/6670>
    This is for a 15" model, 20" should be similar.
    - What also could work: remove the hard disk from the 15" iMac. Find an external FireWire enclosure which can handle PATA disks and put the disk
    in. Connect the enclosure with a FireWire 400 cable to the 20" iMac and
    start it from the external disk (press the Option key during boot)

    Cheers
    Andreas

    --
    MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
    EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
    Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
    <mailto:andreas@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lewis@21:1/5 to Micky on Sat Apr 2 07:41:29 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In message <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>
    Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:25:56 -0700, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    On 2016-04-02 03:27:41 +0000, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> said:

    In message <ne8ufblttdbv2j2f0vti2n0akkfhrpgvlc@4ax.com>
    micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    Perhaps you remember that I've posted here a few times over the last 10 >>>> years, questions for my friend who had a Mac.

    Well, he died. Rather suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He was 78 but strong as a >>>> bull until 7 weeks ago. Examples on request.

    His brother was here going through his stuff, but he didn't have time to >>>> learn to use a Mac, so I'm supposed to do that for him. He's left town >>>> now and there are two Imacs.

    One has a large flat screen, Mac 6.3 G4, Does that say how old it was? >>>
    Is it a white base with an articulated arm? But I don't think that can
    run 10.6.3 (there is no such thing as 6.3).

    I believe he is talking model number not OS.
    I suspect this is the suspect: >><http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.25_20_fp.html>

    Well, one size smaller than that. I also forgot to tell you the
    screen size. I'm a little panicky. Now that his brother is done, the landlady has hired someone to clean the place out Sunday morning, and
    I can't visit until Saturday night at the earliest.

    Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

    He might just be better off pulling the HDD and extracting the data, or >>hook up a another display as it does support a 2nd display for
    mirroring via mini-VGA.

    Is mini-vga the same as mini-display ports?

    No. In no way similar.

    Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
    USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
    I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
    file files.

    There are programs for Windows that will read a Mac drive. MacDrive
    might be the name of one.

    --
    Dinner will be ready when the smoke alarm goes off.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to YourName@YourISP.com on Sat Apr 2 14:31:19 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:45:59 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    In article <a3hufbt0nede5g5of147l3slbmm9rklfcc@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
    wrote:

    It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
    iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1
    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
    Manual
    http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF >>
    The manual shows "VGA output
    Connect an external
    monitor for video
    mirroring using the
    Apple VGA adapter
    (available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
    the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?
    .....
    Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
    turn something on inside?

    It will be a cable, probably with a small box, that plugs into one of
    the ports on the back of the domed base. If it's purely mirroring, then
    it will probably work without any changes to the system.

    Great.

    BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
    thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
    CD drive!

    At this point I think it's time for you to hand the computers over to
    someone who knows what they're doing.

    But then how will I learn? And who will pay him?

    I'm supposed to donate or sell the computers and give half the money
    to my friend's brother and the other half to charity, and I got
    excited when I saw that these were selling for 60 to 100 dollars even
    though they were discontinued in 2004. Very impressive. Then I
    remembered that the monitor is no good.

    If the screen is dead, then it's only worth selling to someone who
    wants parts. Realistically the amount you get will be peanuts and it's
    far easier to simply take the hard drive out and bin the rest.

    Okay, that sounds fine.

    I thought he had bought a brand new Mac desktop, because he had a laptop
    and didn't like using it all the time, but we didn't find it. But there
    was something in a box, the size of a laptop. His brother might have
    taken it before he left, but probably only if he knows someone who wants
    a Mac. If it's still there, that will be worth selling. Whatever he
    bought recently, he complained that he hadn't had time to start using
    it, and it's still in the box so it won't have any email, I'm sure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to YourName@YourISP.com on Sat Apr 2 14:42:29 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:46:21 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    In article <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
    USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
    I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
    file files.

    A Windoze PC can't read a Mac formatted drive without extra driver
    software. If you install that, then you can read the drive and see the
    files, but you won't be able to access any that are in Mac application
    only formats, and that includes Mail emails, AppleWorks documents, etc.
    (at least not without a lot of extra hassle converting, importing,
    ...).

    Well how about this? Instead of continuing to try to log into his
    account, I change everything to my account, and forward all the
    important email and send all the important files as attachments?

    To his brother, maybe some of it to myself, and some to an organization
    he was helping to run (they're the ones who can use the files).

    Won't the email be converted automatically?

    If the attached files will be illegible to a PC, I could get something
    to convert them first to PDF. Or maybe to plain text???? Is Mac
    plain text the same as PC plain text?

    Come to think of it, for a few months a couple years ago, he used to
    send me, as attachments, letters he mailed out on occasion to
    organization members, for me to edit a little better, and I would send
    them back to him, and he would mail them. So there must be some level
    of interlegibility. I don't remember why he couldn't finish
    editing them (some technical reason) but when I look at them again, and
    the emails he sent them with, I probably will. (This is why I save all
    my email except spam and a little more.)



    Best to plug the external drive into another Mac, but even then some
    old documents may be an issue to open (a new Intel Mac won't be able to
    run some of the old G4 applications and newer applications may not like
    the file formats).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to you on Sat Apr 2 14:23:50 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:36:39 +1300, in comp.sys.mac.system you wrote:

    Micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 22:06:54 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
    wrote:


    Better yet, is there a way to connect an external monitor in place of
    the one that's part of the Imac. It seems clear to me the problem is
    the monitor and not the driver. (Please ignore the last paragraph and
    give me your opinion on that.)

    I'm making progress on this part.

    It's an Apple iMac G4/1.0 15-Inch
    iMac USB 2.0 - M9285LL/A - PowerMac6,1
    http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_1.0_15_fp.html
    Manual
    http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/imac/0342069.PDF >>
    The manual shows "VGA output
    Connect an external
    monitor for video
    mirroring using the
    Apple VGA adapter
    (available separately)" Does that mean I'd have to buy one, open up
    the hemisphere, and install the VGA adapter?

    No, it is an external adpater that Apple sold separately, which was >discontinued a few years ago.

    To explain myself, though you didn't ask, in PC's they use the term
    display adapter to mean... the video card I guess. I've never been sure.
    And there is also the network adapter, which is the network card. Or the corresponding circuit.

    (And then they use "adapter" for the little black boxes that plug into
    the wall and give out 6v, etc. I never liked that usage.)

    I think adapter should be reserved for cords and connectors like we're
    talking about here.

    The computer has a "Mini-VGA" port on the back. Look for a symbol like
    this above it: |[]|

    I see it.

    Mini-VGA is proprietary to Apple. The adapter is about a six inch cable
    with a Mini-VGA male at one end and standard D-sub 15 VGA socket at the
    other end.

    It looks like Amazon still has some for $1 (plus shipping):

    http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini-VGA-Display-Adaptor-Macs/dp/B000K183W6/

    Cheap enough.

    An external display will mirror what the GPU is outputting. Assuming the >display problem is with the internal cable or LCD panel, then an
    external one should work well enough.

    The bottom 2/3rds sometimes look like a map of Indonesia or somewhere
    with many islands. Or sometimes white with a bunch of vertical lines
    of different colors and different widths. One time only, for only 10
    seconds, two icons at the bottom could be seen dimly, but I couldnt' get
    the cursor there fast enough to click. Well, I could have clicked there anyhow, but I can't see the cursor except when it's in the top third,
    and it moves so slowly that would make it hard to know where it was.

    IOW, I'm sure it's the LCD panel. I just have to make room for an lcd
    monitor. I have one I haven't started using yet.

    Or is it just a cable?
    http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MB572Z/B/mini-displayport-to-vga-adapter >> This is for a mini-display port. The first link above says the thing
    has a mini-vga port. Is that the same thing? I think so.

    No, that's two generations too new: in later models Apple moved from
    Mini-VGA to Mini-DVI (around 2006),

    One of the ebay items I posted last night was that, "Mini DVI to VGA
    Monitor" and yet I didn't notice "DVI". Hard to believe.

    then Mini-DisplayPort (around 2009).

    The other ebay item was "Mini Displayport Display Port To VGA adapter
    Cable " and I was so happy to find it, Plus the search page said the
    item expired in one hour. Since it was only $4 (inc. shipping) I was
    tempted to buy it -- I'm glad I didn't --, rather than hope it would be relisted. But the auction page itself said nothing about expiring in an
    hour. The DVI page above was supposed to expire in 2 hours, but again,
    the page itself said nothing about that. I would search again to see
    if what it says on the search page about expiration, but I forget what I searched on.

    Of the three, only Mini-DisplayPort has been reasonably widely adopted >outside Apple products, as Apple donated it to the DisplayPort standard,

    I guess that will do it.

    and it is also used by Intel's Thunderbolt.

    I read a little about Thunderbolt last night.

    Can I just plug in the monitor, to use it as a mirror, or do I have to
    turn something on inside?

    Given the right Mini-VGA adapter, plug it in and it will automatically >mirror.

    Great.

    With later models that were able to support an independent display, it
    would defalut to separate display mode, and you'd use a keyboard
    shortcut, shortcut menu or System Preferences to change the display >configuration to mirrored.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From micky@21:1/5 to David Empson on Sat Apr 2 16:53:45 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:36:39 +1300, dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:



    The computer has a "Mini-VGA" port on the back. Look for a symbol like
    this above it: |[]|

    Mini-VGA is proprietary to Apple. The adapter is about a six inch cable
    with a Mini-VGA male at one end and standard D-sub 15 VGA socket at the
    other end.

    It looks like Amazon still has some for $1 (plus shipping):

    http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mini-VGA-Display-Adaptor-Macs/dp/B000K183W6/

    I'm going to get this. Thanks.

    BTW, some of you Apple guys are tough judges. The two 3-star raters
    say it's "exactly what I needed" or "shipped great" but still only gave
    it 3 stars. Two of the three 4-star raters say it's great or works
    perfectly, but only gave it 4 stars. Even the one-star guy said "Did
    not fit my MacBook Pro. Prompt refund." He probably doesn't want to
    believe it was his fault, but it probably was and they should get 2 or 3
    stars for the prompt refund alone. (Maybe it cost a lot more than $1
    when he had bought it, although the review was last Dec. 17.)

    Another interesting guy wanted to use this to go from mini-VGA to VGA
    and another adapter to go to HDMI to watch on the new tv!!! He sounds
    like me. Apparently that may or may not work.


    An external display will mirror what the GPU is outputting. Assuming the >display problem is with the internal cable or LCD panel, then an
    external one should work well enough.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com on Sun Apr 3 09:58:49 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <8k30gbl1421pa8hvv3ctj8rs4rfiv4m6me@4ax.com>, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:45:59 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    In article <a3hufbt0nede5g5of147l3slbmm9rklfcc@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    BTW, for both this one and the other one, I found the handle, and I
    thought it was the worst handle I ever saw. Now I realize it was the
    CD drive!

    At this point I think it's time for you to hand the computers over to >someone who knows what they're doing.

    But then how will I learn? And who will pay him?

    If it's a one-off, then you don't need to learn.

    Even if you plan to start doing things with Macs, those G4 domes are
    old ("obsolete" in Apple's terms) and the new ones are completely
    different ... and *much* less accessible internally.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com on Sun Apr 3 10:19:07 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <i040gbtm1n8qm6fgichs665kahad1dv7kl@4ax.com>, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
    In comp.sys.mac.system, on Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:46:21 +1200, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    In article <iakufb909f04oe0b870fl7npoor7ml3kk3@4ax.com>, Micky ><NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    Pulling the hard drive might be a good idea too. I have a SATA/IDE to
    USB adapter, a cable with a power supply for the harddrive, and surely
    I can get some PC software to read the email files (Mac Mail), and the
    file files.

    A Windoze PC can't read a Mac formatted drive without extra driver >software. If you install that, then you can read the drive and see the >files, but you won't be able to access any that are in Mac application
    only formats, and that includes Mail emails, AppleWorks documents, etc.
    (at least not without a lot of extra hassle converting, importing,
    ...).

    Well how about this? Instead of continuing to try to log into his
    account, I change everything to my account, and forward all the
    important email and send all the important files as attachments?

    To his brother, maybe some of it to myself, and some to an organization
    he was helping to run (they're the ones who can use the files).

    Won't the email be converted automatically?

    Of course, if you email them from the Mac's Mail application. The
    problem is the emails aren't stored in any way easily read by a PC
    (even if the PC is set-up to read the Mac hard drive).

    As long as you can get the Mac working, you can of course forward the
    emails, or export them as plain text or PDFs. There's probably ways,
    with extra effort, to export the emails in a format that can be
    imported into Windows Outlook.



    If the attached files will be illegible to a PC, I could get something
    to convert them first to PDF. Or maybe to plain text???? Is Mac
    plain text the same as PC plain text?

    Again, as long as you can get the Mac working, it should be fairly easy
    (if time consuming).

    Mac OS X applications can easily create PDFs directly from the Print
    window, although it will depend on what version of OS X the Mac is
    running and the application as to how well that works - old versions
    and some applications have a nasty habit of creating PDFs that use only
    images (any text is turned into an image, meaning it's not easily
    extractable as text).

    Some applications will be able to save to other formats. AppleWorks,
    for example, can save its text documents as Microsoft Word documents
    and its spreadsheet documents as Microsoft Excel documents - although
    depending on the complexity of the documents, some bits may be lost or
    the Word document a bit messy.

    Plain text is plain text ... most modern computer applications can
    handle either "Mac" or "Windows" format. Even if they can't, at worst
    you'll probably get some garbage characters and perhaps paragraphs not separated properly.

    It all depends on what applications were being used and what types of
    documents created. Maybe he was using Mac Outlook for emails instead of
    Mac Mail, for example, and Mac Word for wordprocessing.

    The biggest cross-platform conversion issue is usually databases - if
    he used one. There's no version of Microsoft Access for Macs and
    there's no database application I've come across that can export the
    entire database (data and structure) as an Access document. Best you
    can do is export the data to a text file and import that into a newly
    created Windows database. If he had databases created in FileMaker Pro,
    then there is a Windows version of that, which makes transferring the
    databases very easy.



    Come to think of it, for a few months a couple years ago, he used to
    send me, as attachments, letters he mailed out on occasion to
    organization members, for me to edit a little better, and I would send
    them back to him, and he would mail them. So there must be some level
    of interlegibility. I don't remember why he couldn't finish editing them (some technical reason) but when I look at them again, and
    the emails he sent them with, I probably will. (This is why I save all
    my email except spam and a little more.)

    If he sent you Microsoft Word documents which you then re-saved in the
    silly new .docx format, then it's very possible he couldn't open them -
    old versions of Microsoft Word (whether on Mac or Windows) can't open
    .docx files. Same with the new Excel .xlsx and Powerpoint .pptx
    formats.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From dg@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 2 20:47:38 2016
    I second this:
    I seee some possibilities
    - FireWire Target Disk mode to get access to files on the 15" iMac from
    the 20"<<<
    This is by far the easiest solution. Since the place is being cleared out Sunday morning and this is Saturday night . . . take these Macs to your place, along with every Apple accessory AND ESPECIALLY A REAL APPLE USB KEYBOARD with you--other USB
    keyboards do not send the special boot commands to PowerMacs reliably, you are going to need an APPLE keyboard! For this Firewire boot option, you hold down the Option key + "T" key. You will notice that Windows keyboards do not have an "Option" key!
    You will also need a Firewire cable; most users of PowerMac G3 and G4 computers will have one laying around, otherwise you're headed for Amazon, eBay, or your local Goodwill store.
    If you need to recover the data for future use, you probably should connect a USB external hard drive to the host computer you are booting the broken one from so that you can copy all data from both computers. It will have to be formatted either FAT32
    using the Mac (for some reason, I often had compatibility problems with drives formatted FAT32 on PC not working on PC after being written to by a Mac, but not vis-versa) or formatted on the Mac for the Apple-proprietary HFS+ either way you'll be using
    Apple Disk Utility.
    Fortunately, Apple's in-built Help files are usually actually helpful, though not to the wonderful degree they were pre-OS X.

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  • From Happy.Hobo@21:1/5 to Lewis on Sun Apr 3 16:33:34 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On 04-01-2016 22:27, Lewis wrote:
    Report back with model numbers and people can provide more guidance.

    Better yet, take it to an Apple store.

    If none near, take it to a Mac user. There are probably others within
    twenty miles. I realize they'll be hard to find, but if you ask ten
    people, you'll either find some or find people who know some.

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  • From Happy.Hobo@21:1/5 to Your Name on Sun Apr 3 16:34:32 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On 04-02-2016 00:46, Your Name wrote:
    Best to plug the external drive into another Mac, but even then some
    old documents may be an issue to open (a new Intel Mac won't be able to
    run some of the old G4 applications and newer applications may not like
    the file formats).

    Target Disk Mode

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  • From Happy.Hobo@21:1/5 to Your Name on Sun Apr 3 16:36:16 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On 04-02-2016 17:19, Your Name wrote:
    Of course, if you email them from the Mac's Mail application. The
    problem is the emails aren't stored in any way easily read by a PC
    (even if the PC is set-up to read the Mac hard drive).

    Last I heard, Mac mail was stored in one of the standard formats. If
    Windows can't read them, it's worse than I thought, and Linux CAN rea them.

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  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid on Mon Apr 4 13:13:02 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    In article <nds2ce$stv$3@gioia.aioe.org>, Happy.Hobo
    <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
    On 04-02-2016 17:19, Your Name wrote:

    Of course, if you email them from the Mac's Mail application. The
    problem is the emails aren't stored in any way easily read by a PC
    (even if the PC is set-up to read the Mac hard drive).

    Last I heard, Mac mail was stored in one of the standard formats. If
    Windows can't read them, it's worse than I thought, and Linux CAN rea them.

    Mail stores messages in a .mbox file - I don't know how "standard" that
    is. You can probably convert them or import them to other email
    application formats.

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  • From Kadin2048@21:1/5 to Happy.Hobo on Mon Apr 4 01:22:22 2016
    XPost: comp.sys.mac.apps, comp.sys.mac.system

    On 2016-04-03, Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
    Last I heard, Mac mail was stored in one of the standard formats. If
    Windows can't read them, it's worse than I thought, and Linux CAN rea them.

    You're correct; at least up through Yosemite (I don't have any El Cap
    machines myself yet), Apple Mail uses one of two reasonably-decent
    formats for storing messages on disk.

    In recent versions (10.4 and later, I think?), messages are stored
    inside ~/Library/Mail, in subfolders named something like
    "Foldername.mbox", and then each message is an ".emlx" file inside
    that (or maybe in a 'Messages' subfolder). At any rate, they're
    basically just text files once you dig down to the level of actual
    messages. Converting to various other email-storage formats is pretty straightforward. [1]

    Older versions of Mail (from the Public Beta through 10.3, IIRC) used one-file-per-mailbox formats similar to Unix "mbox" spool files. [2]
    Eudora and various other MUAs read them without a problem and without
    any conversion necessary.

    It wouldn't be a major effort at all to grab all the saved email off
    of a hard drive and convert it to mbox files, PSTs, or some other
    format of choice. The HFS disk formatting is likely to be more of a
    problem than the email storage format on disk (and it's not that much
    of a problem, just an annoyance really).

    Although if the system is running, another potentially-easier route is
    just to add a new Gmail (or other IMAP-capable mail provider) account,
    and copy the messages up via IMAP to the new account, then sync them
    down to another machine. But since it sounds like the system in
    question is on its last legs anyway, I wouldn't muck with it.

    Kadin


    [1]: I'm partial to "emlxconvert", which converts to standard mbox /
    spoolfile format. <http://www.cosmicsoft.net/emlxconvert.html>
    From mbox, going to PST or other formats is easy.

    [2]: For historical interest, the differences between Apple Mail 1.x
    (10.3 and earlier) and 2.x (10.4+):
    <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1382793?tstart=0>

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  • From dg@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 2 20:52:26 2016
    By the way, check eBay expired auctions and the Google Group LEM Swap to establish a baseline value for these, even as parts machines. The "lamp" PowerMacs also have substantial market with PC moders who put Mini-ITX or Micro-ITX motherboard in the base
    and replace the LCD panel with a current-production model. There's quite a demand for the surviving units, even as parts.

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  • From Jolly Roger@21:1/5 to david.goodnow@gmail.com on Sun Apr 3 20:51:06 2016
    On 2016-04-03, dg <david.goodnow@gmail.com> wrote:
    I second this:
    I seee some possibilities
    - FireWire Target Disk mode to get access to files on the 15" iMac
    from the 20"<<< This is by far the easiest solution.

    Yep.

    Since the place is being cleared out Sunday morning and this is
    Saturday night . . . take these Macs to your place, along with every
    Apple accessory AND ESPECIALLY A REAL APPLE USB KEYBOARD with
    you--other USB keyboards do not send the special boot commands to
    PowerMacs reliably, you are going to need an APPLE keyboard! For this Firewire boot option, you hold down the Option key + "T" key. You
    will notice that Windows keyboards do not have an "Option" key!

    No, the Option key is not required - just hold down the T key while
    booting. Most any USB keyboard will work:

    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201462>

    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR

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