• Assistance needed with possible very early Macintosh dev floppies

    From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 9 04:20:23 2019
    https://youtu.be/MtyFg2GsRCY
    https://youtu.be/miksqeHTlsI

    I need advice/assistance on determining the authenticity of the contents of
    a collection of 3 1/2", 400k HFS formatted floppies I received.

    They came with a Macintosh SE and the people we bought them from, the wife claimed they had met in Cupertino in the early 80s. She said her husband was
    a programmer and worked at Apple in college. The SE and disks with a
    keyboard, mouse and power cable cost $75...

    Three of the disks are labelled "BS Disk I", "II" and "III". One seems to
    have test programs and other stuff related to the development of Macintalk.
    The application names can be seen in the first video. One (talk demo, seen
    in the first vid) plays a script that when Googled, only has a result from
    the text of an internet archive file of an industry brochure from the era, before the Macintosh 128k released.

    The second video appears to show a prototype version of ALICE/Through the Looking Glass for the Macintosh. It appears to work though- it refers to
    itself on the splash screen as Alice and the Application is named ALICE-
    this game was only released as Through the Looking Glass for Mac. See
    Wikipedia

    There are Basic and Pascal disks with various code and other things on them.

    Another disk with games contains two early, different versions of the game "Mouse Stampede" https://www.myabandonware.com/game/mouse-stampede-3nc.
    Based on the screenshots there they are unfinished. (I haven't played any version of this since 1988 or so. I was 4.)

    Another disk boots with a Finder 1.0 (10 Jan 1984) as stated in Apple ->
    About Finder and it may contain a prototype Finder, as I believe the
    Macintosh 128k was released a bit later. I used System 4 as a kid, and later 6.0.8, before moving on to System 7 and then PCs. This stuff is older than
    me.

    I have already cleaned the inside of the SE thoroughly, as it was a big
    dusty mess, but all components otherwise look fine with no leaky caps or anything. I cleaned and lubricated the disk drive. I ordered a FloppyEmu to
    be able to boot off a vmac hardfile/SD card and make these into .dsk images
    but I might need help. I want to get these uploaded here and evaluated by experts in Mac software older than me, or be pointed in the right direction.
    I am also interested in their collectable value, especially if this is stuff people have never seen before outside of Apple in '83. If its not a big
    deal, just really early, please let me know. Though this site itself didn't have any of these application names as shown in the video under Downloads.

    I have mini vmac and HFVExplorer (PC), for the time being I am not using the disks until I can install FloppyEmu and image them or copy the contents onto
    a hardfile with System 1 that someone can load into mini vmac and evaluate.
    The disks are in a cool, clean finished basement with multiple dehumidifiers running to aid preservation.

    Please help/advise. I am not sure what program I need to use under what
    System (6.0.8?) to properly image them into a .dsk and get them released to thenet, pr if doing so is worth it (if they aren't special).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Stephen Cole@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Tue Jul 9 07:33:04 2019
    Lain Iwakura <iwakurarein@macgui.com> wrote:
    https://youtu.be/MtyFg2GsRCY
    https://youtu.be/miksqeHTlsI

    I need advice/assistance on determining the authenticity of the contents of
    a collection of 3 1/2", 400k HFS formatted floppies I received.

    <snip lots of interesting info>

    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, I
    would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get them running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from late
    80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter now (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will certainly
    have opinions, and likely answers too!

    --
    M0TEY // STC
    www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 9 17:07:12 2019
    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, I would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get them running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from late 80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter
    now
    (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will certainly have opinions, and likely answers too!


    Thank you so much!! I've tried emailing a few youtubers, and posting on macgui.com (it won't let me make a new thread), as well as researching it (found none of the Applications), and you are the only one to respond affirmatively and offer help. I will check your website and Twitter,
    hopefully we can be in contact there.

    I need to know the best way to image these disks so they are workable in emulators like Mini Vmac as well as bootable on a real 68k back but I am
    unsure how and thats the biggest issue. I use Windows for games now and
    Linux the rest of the time, and have been emulating 68k Macs since with Vmac and Basilisk II since 2000 or so.

    The floppyemu device I ordered will come with boot disks for every 68k Mac System, but I am unsure what OS I should run to make the .dsk files since
    the majority of the disks with interesting content run either Finder 1.0 or Finder 1.1g and "Get Info" on the disks shows date stamps from early 1984.

    Thank you!

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  • From Stephen Cole@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Tue Jul 9 17:58:55 2019
    Lain Iwakura <iwakurarein@macgui.com> wrote:

    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, I
    would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get them
    running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from late >> 80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter
    now
    (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will certainly
    have opinions, and likely answers too!


    Thank you so much!! I've tried emailing a few youtubers, and posting on macgui.com (it won't let me make a new thread), as well as researching it (found none of the Applications), and you are the only one to respond affirmatively and offer help. I will check your website and Twitter, hopefully we can be in contact there.

    I need to know the best way to image these disks so they are workable in emulators like Mini Vmac as well as bootable on a real 68k back but I am unsure how and thats the biggest issue. I use Windows for games now and
    Linux the rest of the time, and have been emulating 68k Macs since with Vmac and Basilisk II since 2000 or so.

    The floppyemu device I ordered will come with boot disks for every 68k Mac System, but I am unsure what OS I should run to make the .dsk files since
    the majority of the disks with interesting content run either Finder 1.0 or Finder 1.1g and "Get Info" on the disks shows date stamps from early 1984.

    Thank you!

    No worries, man. Happy to help in whatever way I can. :) On Twitter, the
    user @bitsavers replied to my shout-out and said he’d emailed you offering
    to help, so check your inbox; he’s ex-Apple so knows his stuff! Fingers crossed you can get this resolved ASAP. Keep me posted, like I said I will gladly host any disk images that arise from this.

    --
    M0TEY // STC
    www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur

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  • From =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIEcuIElzYWFr?=@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Tue Jul 9 13:19:15 2019
    On 2019-07-09 11:07 a.m., Lain Iwakura wrote:

    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, I
    would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get them
    running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from late >> 80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter
    now
    (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will certainly
    have opinions, and likely answers too!


    Thank you so much!! I've tried emailing a few youtubers, and posting on macgui.com (it won't let me make a new thread), as well as researching it (found none of the Applications), and you are the only one to respond affirmatively and offer help. I will check your website and Twitter, hopefully we can be in contact there.

    I need to know the best way to image these disks so they are workable in emulators like Mini Vmac as well as bootable on a real 68k back but I am unsure how and thats the biggest issue. I use Windows for games now and
    Linux the rest of the time, and have been emulating 68k Macs since with Vmac and Basilisk II since 2000 or so.

    You'll want to use Apple's DiskCopy 4.1 to do the actual imaging. Since
    the disks are 400K disks, the resulting images will be MFS images. In my experience, MFS images can be mounted in mini vMac or in SheepShaver
    running System 7, but not running system 8 or later. If You want the
    images to be mountable in System 8 or later you'll need to copy the
    contents of the disk to an HFS image, but these will not be mountable on pre-System 3 systems.

    André


    --
    To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
    service.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 9 20:03:06 2019
    André G. Isaak wrote:
    On 2019-07-09 11:07 a.m., Lain Iwakura wrote:

    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, I >>> would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get them >>> running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from
    late
    80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter
    now
    (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will
    certainly
    have opinions, and likely answers too!


    Thank you so much!! I've tried emailing a few youtubers, and posting on
    macgui.com (it won't let me make a new thread), as well as researching it
    (found none of the Applications), and you are the only one to respond
    affirmatively and offer help. I will check your website and Twitter,
    hopefully we can be in contact there.

    I need to know the best way to image these disks so they are workable in
    emulators like Mini Vmac as well as bootable on a real 68k back but I am
    unsure how and thats the biggest issue. I use Windows for games now and
    Linux the rest of the time, and have been emulating 68k Macs since with
    Vmac
    and Basilisk II since 2000 or so.

    You'll want to use Apple's DiskCopy 4.1 to do the actual imaging. Since
    the disks are 400K disks, the resulting images will be MFS images. In my experience, MFS images can be mounted in mini vMac or in SheepShaver
    running System 7, but not running system 8 or later. If You want the
    images to be mountable in System 8 or later you'll need to copy the
    contents of the disk to an HFS image, but these will not be mountable on pre-System 3 systems.

    André


    Excellent! That is exactly what I needed to know, and of course, I
    understand the difference between MFS and HFS.

    I do not use Macs anymore and have no other classic Macs, I switched to PCs after 68k Macs and never looked back. I still use PCs and am very familiar
    with 68k Mac emulation.

    I have two additional questions:

    1) Are you sure they are MFS formatted? The original Macintosh was before my time but I have read that MFS does not support nested folders, yet these
    disks have nested folders (I always thought this meant a folder inside a folder...) This may be important for imaging them.

    2) The location I'm in is relatively hot and extremely rainy lately with
    very high relative humidity. Is it safe to put a packet of dehydrated silica (probably from inside an empty beef jerky package)? Theoretically it should absorb moisture from the air in the hard plastic binder with all the
    important disks.

    I am running two dehumidifiers, one a large capacity $200 model that we got last year because of these conditions, and have filled the finished basement with about 5 small buckets of moisture absorbing charcoal (?) from a
    hardware store, as well as one large one (The product is called "DampAid")
    but in a finished basement it is still around 76F with 47% relative
    humidity. I watched a Japanese game preservation society documentary from
    nhk on YouTube and they were keeping it below 60F and 35% relative
    humidity...

    Also I have reached out to the first poster who owns
    vintageapplemacintosh.com over private email, I will not receive any sent to LainIwakura@macgui.com, I am only able to use their usenet reader as they no longer have a mail server. I was going to post the same initial post I made
    on their forums but it would not let me post there no matter what I did, and
    I was impatient as I have been trying to get help with this since last
    Thurs.

    I even tried the purported emails for Steve Capps and Andy Hertzfeld with no reply.

    I would advise Stephen of vintagemac to check his websites email and respond
    as I want to remain anonymous and don't want to deal with too many people. Please understand. Thanks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to iwakurarein@macgui.com on Tue Jul 9 16:13:24 2019
    In article <iwakurarein-1562702123@macgui.com>, Lain Iwakura <iwakurarein@macgui.com> wrote:


    1) Are you sure they are MFS formatted? The original Macintosh was before my time but I have read that MFS does not support nested folders, yet these disks have nested folders (I always thought this meant a folder inside a folder...) This may be important for imaging them.

    they definitely are mfs. hfs did not exist at that time.

    mfs is a flat file system and folders only exist in the gui.

    2) The location I'm in is relatively hot and extremely rainy lately with
    very high relative humidity. Is it safe to put a packet of dehydrated silica (probably from inside an empty beef jerky package)? Theoretically it should absorb moisture from the air in the hard plastic binder with all the important disks.

    no need.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Al Kossow@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 9 12:40:14 2019
    On 7/9/19 12:19 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:

    You'll want to use Apple's DiskCopy 4.1
    4.2

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Tue Jul 9 20:23:27 2019
    Lain Iwakura wrote:
    André G. Isaak wrote:
    On 2019-07-09 11:07 a.m., Lain Iwakura wrote:

    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, >>>> I
    would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get
    them
    running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from >>>> late
    80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter >>>> now
    (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will
    certainly
    have opinions, and likely answers too!


    Thank you so much!! I've tried emailing a few youtubers, and posting on
    macgui.com (it won't let me make a new thread), as well as researching
    it
    (found none of the Applications), and you are the only one to respond
    affirmatively and offer help. I will check your website and Twitter,
    hopefully we can be in contact there.

    I need to know the best way to image these disks so they are workable in >>> emulators like Mini Vmac as well as bootable on a real 68k back but I am >>> unsure how and thats the biggest issue. I use Windows for games now and
    Linux the rest of the time, and have been emulating 68k Macs since with
    Vmac
    and Basilisk II since 2000 or so.

    You'll want to use Apple's DiskCopy 4.1 to do the actual imaging. Since
    the disks are 400K disks, the resulting images will be MFS images. In my
    experience, MFS images can be mounted in mini vMac or in SheepShaver
    running System 7, but not running system 8 or later. If You want the
    images to be mountable in System 8 or later you'll need to copy the
    contents of the disk to an HFS image, but these will not be mountable on
    pre-System 3 systems.

    André


    Excellent! That is exactly what I needed to know, and of course, I
    understand the difference between MFS and HFS.

    I do not use Macs anymore and have no other classic Macs, I switched to
    PCs
    after 68k Macs and never looked back. I still use PCs and am very familiar with 68k Mac emulation.

    I have two additional questions:

    1) Are you sure they are MFS formatted? The original Macintosh was before
    my
    time but I have read that MFS does not support nested folders, yet these disks have nested folders (I always thought this meant a folder inside a folder...) This may be important for imaging them.

    2) The location I'm in is relatively hot and extremely rainy lately with
    very high relative humidity. Is it safe to put a packet of dehydrated
    silica
    (probably from inside an empty beef jerky package)? Theoretically it
    should
    absorb moisture from the air in the hard plastic binder with all the important disks.

    I am running two dehumidifiers, one a large capacity $200 model that we
    got
    last year because of these conditions, and have filled the finished
    basement
    with about 5 small buckets of moisture absorbing charcoal (?) from a
    hardware store, as well as one large one (The product is called "DampAid") but in a finished basement it is still around 76F with 47% relative
    humidity. I watched a Japanese game preservation society documentary from
    nhk on YouTube and they were keeping it below 60F and 35% relative humidity...

    Also I have reached out to the first poster who owns vintageapplemacintosh.com over private email, I will not receive any sent
    to
    LainIwakura@macgui.com, I am only able to use their usenet reader as they
    no
    longer have a mail server. I was going to post the same initial post I
    made
    on their forums but it would not let me post there no matter what I did,
    and
    I was impatient as I have been trying to get help with this since last
    Thurs.

    I even tried the purported emails for Steve Capps and Andy Hertzfeld with
    no
    reply.

    I would advise Stephen of vintagemac to check his websites email and
    respond
    as I want to remain anonymous and don't want to deal with too many people. Please understand. Thanks


    Also see:

    https://youtu.be/Hlu2skShICw

    I made this for you guys. One of the disks has games and is in great shape, meaning it sounds better in the disk drive than all of the others, even
    after thoroughly cleaning and lubricating the drive.

    It has two seemingly dev versions of Mouse Stampede, the very first 3rd
    party Macintosh game, according to some site. See the Youtube description.

    It also contains Daleks which may also be an early dev version. I never
    liked that game much, but I know some people are bonkers over it.

    I won't be loading the disk again except to image it. Feel free to pass that video around Twitter etc etc.

    Apologies for breaking nerd conventions by double posting on usenet, but no
    one has used this commonly for a long time so I don't much care. And tell
    the vintageapplemac.com guy to answer my email. ;)

    -Lain

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to Christian on Tue Jul 9 17:58:27 2019
    In article <1oagyp1.1e01kaodelw48N%christian180801@ghanart.org>,
    Christian <christian180801@ghanart.org> wrote:

    Wikipedia writes in their article <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk>:

    wikipedia is not always a good reference, and in this case, quite poor.

    The first Macintosh computers use single-sided 3 12-inch floppy disks,
    but with 400 KB formatted capacity. These were followed in 1986 by double-sided 800 KB floppies.

    1985

    The higher capacity was achieved at the
    same recording density by varying the disk rotation speed with head
    position so that the linear speed of the disk was closer to constant.

    nope. the higher capacity was because it was double-sided. 400 kb per
    side.

    both 400 & 800 kb floppies were variable speed, gaining capacity over
    the standard 360 kb and 720 kb floppies on windows pcs.

    1.4 mb floppies were constant speed and worked on both mac and windows
    pcs. apple called the hd floppy drive a superdrive, later reusing the
    name for their dvd drive.

    Therefore, 400K disks are not necessarily formatted in MFS

    nope. 400 kb floppies were mfs and 800 kb were hfs, although it was
    possible to format them the opposite.

    - since the
    800K disks were introduced in 1986 and MFS dropped by Apple in 1985.

    nope. mfs support remained for more than a decade, although read only
    at the end.

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  • From Christian@21:1/5 to agisaak@gm.invalid on Tue Jul 9 23:20:20 2019
    André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    You'll want to use Apple's DiskCopy 4.1 to do the actual imaging. Since
    the disks are 400K disks, the resulting images will be MFS images.

    Probably not. MFS was succeeded by HFS already in 1985 (but supported
    until OS version 7.6; 7.6.1 through 8.0 could no longer write to MFS -
    only read from it. Info taken from <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_File_System>

    Wikipedia writes in their article
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk>:
    The first Macintosh computers use single-sided 3 1⁄2-inch floppy disks,
    but with 400 KB formatted capacity. These were followed in 1986 by
    double-sided 800 KB floppies. The higher capacity was achieved at the
    same recording density by varying the disk rotation speed with head
    position so that the linear speed of the disk was closer to constant.

    Therefore, 400K disks are not necessarily formatted in MFS - since the
    800K disks were introduced in 1986 and MFS dropped by Apple in 1985.

    Christian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to nospam on Wed Jul 10 02:23:52 2019
    nospam wrote:
    In article <1oagyp1.1e01kaodelw48N%christian180801@ghanart.org>,
    Christian <christian180801@ghanart.org> wrote:

    Wikipedia writes in their article
    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floppy_disk>:

    wikipedia is not always a good reference, and in this case, quite poor.

    The first Macintosh computers use single-sided 3 1Ž2-inch floppy disks,
    but with 400 KB formatted capacity. These were followed in 1986 by
    double-sided 800 KB floppies.

    1985

    The higher capacity was achieved at the
    same recording density by varying the disk rotation speed with head
    position so that the linear speed of the disk was closer to constant.

    nope. the higher capacity was because it was double-sided. 400 kb per
    side.

    both 400 & 800 kb floppies were variable speed, gaining capacity over
    the standard 360 kb and 720 kb floppies on windows pcs.

    1.4 mb floppies were constant speed and worked on both mac and windows
    pcs. apple called the hd floppy drive a superdrive, later reusing the
    name for their dvd drive.

    Therefore, 400K disks are not necessarily formatted in MFS

    nope. 400 kb floppies were mfs and 800 kb were hfs, although it was
    possible to format them the opposite.

    - since the
    800K disks were introduced in 1986 and MFS dropped by Apple in 1985.

    nope. mfs support remained for more than a decade, although read only
    at the end.


    Interesting. This all sounds legitimate. When I disassembled the 800k "SuperDrive" in the Mac SE I acquired, to lubricate it and clean the heads,
    the disk drive had two heads, both aligned with each other vertically. When
    I cycled the drive with a disk I didn't care about (some retail Microsoft Multiplan crap I'll never use), by inserting and then manually ejecting the disk, I saw the mechanism for the top head lower down once the disk shield
    was open, meaning the two heads were for a doubled sided disk.

    I also read that the variable speed was present in both and that the outer tracks of the disk are smaller than in IBM disk drives, basically the tracks
    on the outside edge of the magnetic disk physically, and this allows for the slightly higher capacity, but means the drive must have variable speed to be able to read and write... Though as far as whether the disk spins slower or faster while reading and writing those sectors, I am not an engineer so I'm
    not sure.

    From what I understand I should use disk copy 4.2 from System 4 (4.?) to
    image them? I will probably need to set up a system 4 virtual hard disk,
    also a .dsk, and put them on there, then retrieve the disk images using HFVExplorer.

    Please tell me exactly which version of Disk Copy to use and exactly what System to use.. 4.3? I've only ever really worked with System 6.0.8 in vmac since the late 90s, and I had a IIci w/7.1 and a Centris 650 w/ 7.5.5 and
    8.1 around 2000. I only ever used System Software earlier than that on
    machines that weren't mine in grade school and the neighbors Mac Plus.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Stephen Cole@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Wed Jul 10 05:54:39 2019
    Lain Iwakura <iwakurarein@macgui.com> wrote:
    Lain Iwakura wrote:
    André G. Isaak wrote:
    On 2019-07-09 11:07 a.m., Lain Iwakura wrote:

    Hello! That all looks super cool and, if you can get the disks imaged, >>>>> I
    would love to host them on my site vintageapplemac.com and also get
    them
    running in the Internet Archive’s in-browser Macintosh emulator.

    Really early Mac stuff like this isn’t my forte, my interest is from >>>>> late
    80s through to the Millennium, but I will share your post to my Twitter >>>>> now
    (@vintageapplemac) as many of my followers are experts and will
    certainly
    have opinions, and likely answers too!


    Thank you so much!! I've tried emailing a few youtubers, and posting on >>>> macgui.com (it won't let me make a new thread), as well as researching >>>> it
    (found none of the Applications), and you are the only one to respond
    affirmatively and offer help. I will check your website and Twitter,
    hopefully we can be in contact there.

    I need to know the best way to image these disks so they are workable in >>>> emulators like Mini Vmac as well as bootable on a real 68k back but I am >>>> unsure how and thats the biggest issue. I use Windows for games now and >>>> Linux the rest of the time, and have been emulating 68k Macs since with >>>> Vmac
    and Basilisk II since 2000 or so.

    You'll want to use Apple's DiskCopy 4.1 to do the actual imaging. Since
    the disks are 400K disks, the resulting images will be MFS images. In my >>> experience, MFS images can be mounted in mini vMac or in SheepShaver
    running System 7, but not running system 8 or later. If You want the
    images to be mountable in System 8 or later you'll need to copy the
    contents of the disk to an HFS image, but these will not be mountable on >>> pre-System 3 systems.

    André


    Excellent! That is exactly what I needed to know, and of course, I
    understand the difference between MFS and HFS.

    I do not use Macs anymore and have no other classic Macs, I switched to
    PCs
    after 68k Macs and never looked back. I still use PCs and am very familiar >> with 68k Mac emulation.

    I have two additional questions:

    1) Are you sure they are MFS formatted? The original Macintosh was before
    my
    time but I have read that MFS does not support nested folders, yet these
    disks have nested folders (I always thought this meant a folder inside a
    folder...) This may be important for imaging them.

    2) The location I'm in is relatively hot and extremely rainy lately with
    very high relative humidity. Is it safe to put a packet of dehydrated
    silica
    (probably from inside an empty beef jerky package)? Theoretically it
    should
    absorb moisture from the air in the hard plastic binder with all the
    important disks.

    I am running two dehumidifiers, one a large capacity $200 model that we
    got
    last year because of these conditions, and have filled the finished
    basement
    with about 5 small buckets of moisture absorbing charcoal (?) from a
    hardware store, as well as one large one (The product is called "DampAid") >> but in a finished basement it is still around 76F with 47% relative
    humidity. I watched a Japanese game preservation society documentary from
    nhk on YouTube and they were keeping it below 60F and 35% relative
    humidity...

    Also I have reached out to the first poster who owns
    vintageapplemacintosh.com over private email, I will not receive any sent
    to
    LainIwakura@macgui.com, I am only able to use their usenet reader as they
    no
    longer have a mail server. I was going to post the same initial post I
    made
    on their forums but it would not let me post there no matter what I did,
    and
    I was impatient as I have been trying to get help with this since last
    Thurs.

    I even tried the purported emails for Steve Capps and Andy Hertzfeld with
    no
    reply.

    I would advise Stephen of vintagemac to check his websites email and
    respond
    as I want to remain anonymous and don't want to deal with too many people. >> Please understand. Thanks


    Also see:

    https://youtu.be/Hlu2skShICw

    I made this for you guys. One of the disks has games and is in great shape, meaning it sounds better in the disk drive than all of the others, even
    after thoroughly cleaning and lubricating the drive.

    It has two seemingly dev versions of Mouse Stampede, the very first 3rd
    party Macintosh game, according to some site. See the Youtube description.

    It also contains Daleks which may also be an early dev version. I never
    liked that game much, but I know some people are bonkers over it.

    I won't be loading the disk again except to image it. Feel free to pass that video around Twitter etc etc.

    Apologies for breaking nerd conventions by double posting on usenet, but no one has used this commonly for a long time so I don't much care. And tell
    the vintageapplemac.com guy to answer my email. ;)


    You’ve emailed me? To which mailbox, I can’t see an email from you? The email address in my header is valid (usenet@stephenthomascole.com) so feel
    free to mail there.

    --
    M0TEY // STC
    www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 10 21:04:33 2019
    https://youtu.be/I8LtkpBtHno

    See video and video description.

    How do I pull this off?

    Should I try booting off a 6.0.8 emulated hd and run Disk Copy 4.2 under
    that?

    Thanks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Wed Jul 10 23:59:20 2019
    Lain Iwakura wrote:
    Also I have reached out to the first poster who owns vintageapplemacintosh.com over private email, I will not receive any sent
    to
    LainIwakura@macgui.com, I am only able to use their usenet reader as they
    no
    longer have a mail server. I was going to post the same initial post I
    made
    on their forums but it would not let me post there no matter what I did,
    and
    I was impatient as I have been trying to get help with this since last
    Thurs.


    Hi, I got your PM on Mac GUI. I replied to it. You can also email me dog_cow@macgui.com

    You probably saw that I write the Mac 512K Blog, and I am fully equipped to process and archive any type of Apple or Macintosh disk, and I can also give practical advice concerning the same.

    I also have an application called TeleDisk which will read any 3.5" floppy
    disk and send it block-by-block out the serial port. It runs on any compact Macintosh computer. I've been using this to make backups of my own disks. It
    is fast.

    --
    ]DF$
    The New Apple II User's Guide:
    https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 11 04:50:03 2019


    Hi, I got your PM on Mac GUI. I replied to it. You can also email me dog_cow@macgui.com
    snip useful information( ^◡^)っ✂



    Hi, I got your PM on Mac GUI. I replied to it. You can also email me dog_cow@macgui.com

    You probably saw that I write the Mac 512K Blog, and I am fully equipped
    to
    process and archive any type of Apple or Macintosh disk, and I can also
    give
    practical advice concerning the same.



    Hmm. My modern rig/environment is probably not equipped to do this- no
    serial port- but I *do* have a Raspberry Pi with NOOBS (I generally use them
    as kodi boxes, as well as for emulating arcade machines and 90s consoles...) But there may be some kind of serial port board I could attach, I can also solder so no problem that way. A Pi running NOOBS can probably handle it.

    I've actually figured it out and have imaged some of the disks, the others
    may be too far degraded to save due to humidity damage, bit rot, RF interference, and other things I'm aware cause floppies this age to become ruined. Disk Copy 4.2 gives me error -71. I don't think its the drive,
    probably the disks. So you may not even be able to recover them..

    Anyway, I contacted vintageapplemac with the details of the operation.

    As far as sending them to you... or the implication...LOL

    I'll have Christie's come out and evaluate them and price them before that
    ;)

    Also- why can I not post on your forums? (Answer please!) Will I be able to
    on desktop?

    Some ancient custom version of vBulletin, tsk tsk... I used to install it
    and run it on some quite large pirate MMO servers. And the servers
    themselves. (WoW for example.) I saw some weird avatar system you probably coded that changes color based on years you are a member.

    I really detest elitism. Even if I'm a 'kiddie,' (actually not I can do LUA
    and scripted my mmo servers but..)... I'd like to think I'm decent with hardware.

    If thats why I can't post... You're really discouraging any kind of
    community from forming or people from coming forward with stuff like this.

    Also... Its the Reddit era now man ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 11 13:02:08 2019
    I'm not sure whether Lain is actually looking for help or not.... Here's the reply I received from him via PM.

    Can someone help me understand this reply, and what would cause him to act
    this way???


    Lain Iwakura wrote:


    Its ok.

    I already got in touch with other people through usenet. Including someone
    who worked at Apple in 86. They have helped me.

    I have already imaged some of the disks and will be sending the images to
    the people who helped me.

    Also, why can't I post on your forums? I tried to under the software
    section, and it was my message I sent to you. Every time I tried to post,
    it said "you must wait a while before posting again", and never posted to
    the board after clicking submit. I am on mobile using Android.

    So, I will just send the images I made to them and not upload them here!
    Including the development version of Through the Looking Glass, two
    development versions of "Mouse Stampede", the first 3rd party Macintosh
    game, as well as the Macintalk development programs, early version and any
    code found.

    I'll tell the people who helped me not to distribute the images. For now.

    Thanks for your useless reply. Fix your ancient site! Razz



    --
    ]DF$
    The New Apple II User's Guide:
    https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to Lain Iwakura on Thu Jul 11 12:56:14 2019
    Lain Iwakura wrote:


    Hi, I got your PM on Mac GUI. I replied to it. You can also email me
    dog_cow@macgui.com
    snip useful information( ^◡^)っ✂



    Hi, I got your PM on Mac GUI. I replied to it. You can also email me
    dog_cow@macgui.com

    You probably saw that I write the Mac 512K Blog, and I am fully equipped
    to
    process and archive any type of Apple or Macintosh disk, and I can also
    give
    practical advice concerning the same.



    Hmm. My modern rig/environment is probably not equipped to do this- no
    serial port- but I *do* have a Raspberry Pi with NOOBS (I generally use
    them
    as kodi boxes, as well as for emulating arcade machines and 90s
    consoles...)
    But there may be some kind of serial port board I could attach, I can also solder so no problem that way. A Pi running NOOBS can probably handle it.

    I've actually figured it out and have imaged some of the disks, the others may be too far degraded to save due to humidity damage, bit rot, RF interference, and other things I'm aware cause floppies this age to become ruined. Disk Copy 4.2 gives me error -71. I don't think its the drive, probably the disks. So you may not even be able to recover them..

    Anyway, I contacted vintageapplemac with the details of the operation.

    As far as sending them to you... or the implication...LOL

    I'll have Christie's come out and evaluate them and price them before that
    ;)

    Also- why can I not post on your forums? (Answer please!) Will I be able
    to
    on desktop?

    Some ancient custom version of vBulletin, tsk tsk... I used to install it
    and run it on some quite large pirate MMO servers. And the servers themselves. (WoW for example.) I saw some weird avatar system you probably coded that changes color based on years you are a member.

    I really detest elitism. Even if I'm a 'kiddie,' (actually not I can do
    LUA
    and scripted my mmo servers but..)... I'd like to think I'm decent with hardware.

    If thats why I can't post... You're really discouraging any kind of
    community from forming or people from coming forward with stuff like this.

    Also... Its the Reddit era now man ;)


    You're using my site to post to Usenet, and have gotten a dozen replies.
    What's your problem?


    --
    ]DF$
    The New Apple II User's Guide:
    https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lain Iwakura@21:1/5 to D Finnigan on Thu Jul 11 19:59:58 2019
    D Finnigan wrote:
    I'm not sure whether Lain is actually looking for help or not.... Here's
    the
    reply I received from him via PM.

    Can someone help me understand this reply, and what would cause him to act this way???


    Lain Iwakura wrote:


    Its ok.

    I already got in touch with other people through usenet. Including
    someone
    who worked at Apple in 86. They have helped me.

    I have already imaged some of the disks and will be sending the images to
    the people who helped me.

    Also, why can't I post on your forums? I tried to under the software
    section, and it was my message I sent to you. Every time I tried to post,
    it said "you must wait a while before posting again", and never posted to
    the board after clicking submit. I am on mobile using Android.

    So, I will just send the images I made to them and not upload them here!
    Including the development version of Through the Looking Glass, two
    development versions of "Mouse Stampede", the first 3rd party Macintosh
    game, as well as the Macintalk development programs, early version and
    any
    code found.

    I'll tell the people who helped me not to distribute the images. For now.

    Thanks for your useless reply. Fix your ancient site! Razz


    I have my own solution for usenet now under modern Linux...and tbh even if I told you the details of why I'm acting this way, I don't want it to be just seen as an excuse.

    Either way, I've been a beyond a jerk to nearly everyone here. Let's just
    keep it at, I have a lot of issues. One right now could be potentially life threatening and may require hospitalization, and I could go into a coma and possibly die. It's called "hyponatremia". Look it up on Wikipedia.

    I've dealt with a lot of awful people in the last few years, as well as
    online period in the last 15.

    I saw these disks and immediately understood what they probably were- and
    how valuable they could potentially be. Now that is more or less confirmed based on my interactions here, in emails, and seeing Stephen's Twitter.

    I'm not sure it'll matter, but take my sincere apologies. I'll be nicer from now on. I very much do want to work with you all to get the software
    archived and preserved.

    Ultimately, my methods using a Floppyemu, .dsk images, emulators, etc. Did
    the job.

    If you'd rather I'd not use your site and go away... I can do that too. But
    I did realize I was being a jerk, and I'm sorry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)