Nice to see a little history, which I unfortunately missed completely. I live in Poland, in the 1980s it was actually illegal for US company to export computers here under some sort of US embargo.
In the 1990s you could legally
buy Macs, but they were too expensive for most people.
On Sat, 20 Oct 2018 16:48:11 UTC, Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> wrote:
Nice to see a little history, which I unfortunately missed completely. I live
in Poland, in the 1980s it was actually illegal for US company to export
computers here under some sort of US embargo.
Because you were members of the Warsaw Pact.
In the 1990s you could legally buy Macs, but they were too expensive
for most people.
After the collapse of the Soviet Empire.
In comp.sys.mac.vintage, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
It may have been illegal, but that didn't stop thousands of American
and UK computers being owned by people "behind the iron curtain", any
more than it stopped them owning jeans and Beatles records. Many
different computers were smuggled in: Commodore 64, Sinclair Spectrum,
Atari 600, etc.
Someone in one of the other comp.* groups posted a link to the Soviet Computer Museum a month or two ago. I notived there were a lot of Z80 machines but basically nothing like a C64 clone.
in Poland, in the 1980s it was actually illegal for US company to export
computers here under some sort of US embargo.
Because you were members of the Warsaw Pact.
It may have been illegal, but that didn't stop thousands of American
and UK computers being owned by people "behind the iron curtain", any
more than it stopped them owning jeans and Beatles records. Many
different computers were smuggled in: Commodore 64, Sinclair Spectrum, Atari 600, etc.
I think MSX were legally exported to Soviet Bloc - I know at least one guy who bought MSX SpectraVideo in �kładnica Harcerska” (shop run by state-controlled scouting organization) in late 80s. I know also a lot of people who bought ZX Spectrums in mid 80s, but I’m not sure how legal it was.
From http://videosift.com/video/The-Development-Disaster-behind-macOS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fD5q_LShdY
Mac OS X is so much better! :D
In article <0001HW.217F198B01A987DC7000091CD2EF@news.idecnet.com>,
Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> wrote:
in Poland, in the 1980s it was actually illegal for US company to
export
computers here under some sort of US embargo.
Because you were members of the Warsaw Pact.
It may have been illegal, but that didn't stop thousands of American
and UK computers being owned by people "behind the iron curtain", any
more than it stopped them owning jeans and Beatles records. Many
different computers were smuggled in: Commodore 64, Sinclair Spectrum,
Atari 600, etc.
I think MSX were legally exported to Soviet Bloc - I know at least one
guy
who bought MSX SpectraVideo in �k,adnica Harcerska? (shop run by
state-controlled scouting organization) in late 80s. I know also a lot of
people who bought ZX Spectrums in mid 80s, but I?Tm not sure how legal
it
was.
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer)
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
An almond doesn't lactate. This post / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice. insults Islam. Mohammed
After the soviet collapse, the PC ruled for decades, I don't even remember ads with them, but later found out they were used in publishing, some
schools (or at least one school, Wozniak visited and donated them).
"Siri Cruise" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:chine.bleu-03ADA3.03552023102018@reader.eternal-september.org...
In article <0001HW.217F198B01A987DC7000091CD2EF@news.idecnet.com>,
Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> wrote:
in Poland, in the 1980s it was actually illegal for US company to
export
computers here under some sort of US embargo.
Because you were members of the Warsaw Pact.
It may have been illegal, but that didn't stop thousands of American
and UK computers being owned by people "behind the iron curtain", any
more than it stopped them owning jeans and Beatles records. Many
different computers were smuggled in: Commodore 64, Sinclair Spectrum, >>> > Atari 600, etc.
I think MSX were legally exported to Soviet Bloc - I know at least one
guy
who bought MSX SpectraVideo in �k,adnica Harcerska? (shop run by
state-controlled scouting organization) in late 80s. I know also a lot
of
people who bought ZX Spectrums in mid 80s, but I?Tm not sure how legal
it
was.
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer)
--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
An almond doesn't lactate. This post / \
Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice. insults Islam.
Mohammed
As far as I know, most soviet computers were clones, IBM or ZX Spectrum
were the most popular to copy.
People were making ZX Spectrum clones at home, even improving and
upgrading them and there was a lot of factory made clones.
I've used it ..... and it worked! :-)
I'm now using this https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/mojave/
Have you tried it yet?
--
David B.
On 11/21/18 5:57 PM, I.Mackie wrote:
I've used it ..... and it worked! :-)
I'm now using this https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/mojave/
Have you tried it yet?
--
David B.
Oh look. The resident moron tries to nymshift to "I.Mackie", but he is
so GD stupid that his signature is still there.
On 12/15/18 4:41 PM, David B. wrote:
Wow! You, dear Bob, are the ONLY guy who noticed! Score 10/10
No, everyone notices how fucking stupid you are. Every day. Its just impossible to reply to all of your moronic, absurdly stupid posts.
Please go back to jail, or wherever the hell you were for the last 6 months. The collective IQ of the planet goes down 10% when you post
your drivel.
Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
with.
But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly useless and nothing more than toys.
On 2018-12-14, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
with.
As anything else, they were designed according to the brief they
were given. The keyboards on the earlier models were cost saving
measures to hit a desired price point. Yes, you can argue about
the soundness of that decision but it didn't come from nowhere.
The BBC had a nice keyboard but was also three times the price.
By the time the QL/Spectrum+ were out the moulded keyboards were
actually quite usable as well as being almost completely impervious
to staples, breadcrumbs etc simply because the keys were so close
fitting. This is something Apple still can't get right almost 40
years later with their current Macbooks.
But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
useless and nothing more than toys.
Oddly enough it's probably less than ten years since I last saw a
Spectrum used for a real task: they got used for all sorts of
specilised applications, in part because of that edge connector on
the back and how easy it was to interface to for even non-trivial
jobs. That last one I recal seeing was controlling a model railway
layout at an exhibition, like so many others with a selfbuilt
wirewrapped contraption hanging off the back actually interfacing
to the layout. It looked quite nice actually as far as I remember,
you had a kid of virtual signal box on screen with indication of
signal settings and where the trains were. It's be difficult to
do soemthing of that complexity with the kind of parallel port
abuse that was common on the PC even 15 years later.
OTOH I don't think I've seen a C64 outside of a retro context this
millenium.
On 2018-12-16 19:56:16 +0000, Andrew Smallshaw said:
On 2018-12-14, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
with.
As anything else, they were designed according to the brief they
were given. The keyboards on the earlier models were cost saving
measures to hit a desired price point. Yes, you can argue about
the soundness of that decision but it didn't come from nowhere.
Yes, Sinclair's useless toys were designed to be cheap, and it showed in every possible way. They simply weren't worth watsing money on and buyers should have saved a little more to get a real computer.
The BBC had a nice keyboard but was also three times the price.
By the time the QL/Spectrum+ were out the moulded keyboards were
actually quite usable as well as being almost completely impervious
to staples, breadcrumbs etc simply because the keys were so close
fitting. This is something Apple still can't get right almost 40
years later with their current Macbooks.
*All* of Sinclair's keyboards were complete garbage - the ridiculous
membrane keyboards, the spongey rubberised keyboards, and the awful 'chicklet' keyboards.
But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
useless and nothing more than toys.
Oddly enough it's probably less than ten years since I last saw a
Spectrum used for a real task: they got used for all sorts of
specilised applications, in part because of that edge connector on
the back and how easy it was to interface to for even non-trivial
jobs. That last one I recal seeing was controlling a model railway
layout at an exhibition, like so many others with a selfbuilt
wirewrapped contraption hanging off the back actually interfacing
to the layout. It looked quite nice actually as far as I remember,
you had a kid of virtual signal box on screen with indication of
signal settings and where the trains were. It's be difficult to
do soemthing of that complexity with the kind of parallel port
abuse that was common on the PC even 15 years later.
That's what the Raspberry Pi is for, but that is really just a toy for tinkerers, not a real, usable computer.
OTOH I don't think I've seen a C64 outside of a retro context this
millenium.
There's the Mini 64, although it's simply a retro games console.
There's been various attempts to bring back the C64, some as a
'modernised' version, but I don't think any have really happened and/or
were just a bog-standard Windows PC running an emulator.
There are a few places still using them. For example this story from 2016
...
This Old Arse Commodore 64 Is Still Being Used
To Run An Auto Shop In Poland
<https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/09/this-old-arse-commodore-64-is-still-being-used-to-run-an-auto-shop-in-poland/>
But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly >useless and nothing more than toys.
If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a Commodore system.
On 2018-12-17 16:00:23 +0000, Scott Alfter said:
In article <pv0v0u$uqv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
useless and nothing more than toys.
If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a
Commodore system.
...or an Apple II.
The problem with the Apple II as a *home* computer is that is was
realtively expensive. That's why I used Apple II at school, but had a
VIC20 and then C64 at home.
And it certainly did not save finger-power nor time.
I can't recall exactly, but I think it was the 'If' statement on the
Spectrum that required pressing *three* keys, instead of just typing two letter keys.
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