Posting on my LC 475 running Internews. This is my first time on
Usenet and I'm thrilled to find this group. Running system 7.6.1 and
MacIP via an old cisco router. It's been a fun project and I'm
thrilled to get to use it like this.
What kind of hardware are you all running? and how did you get it
online?
Nice! I still have an LC 475 in the closet here. Love that pizza box
case... : )
My oldest Mac is a Mac SE/30 which was originally purchased by my father
in the late 1980s. It was our first Mac. All of our other computers at
the time ran their own specific command-line operating system with no graphical interface or mouse - just ugly text on an ugly screen. Home Computers back then either used tape drives for storage or had floppy
drives with their own flavor of DOS.
The Mac we brought home was completely different. It was relatively
small compared to most computers of the time, was self-contained
(screen, CPU, floppy drive, etc were all housed in the case) and could
be carried with one hand. And unlike most, not only did it come with a
mouse, but the mouse was actually *required* to use it.
It completely changed the way I looked at computers for the better. And
while I was very much into programming our trusty TRS-80s in Basic and
Zilog assembly, the Mac with an OS geared from the ground up to be
driven by the GUI, along with Apple’s rich APIs and Pascal / 68k
assembly programming languages immediately took my attention and
opened new worlds to me. And the Mac SE/30 was pretty fast for a
computer at that time - hence the name. : )
Zippy is old, but still runs fine. I've replaced the cooling fan,
upgraded the RAM, and replaced the hard drive over the years. But other
than that, the hardware all original. It's currently running system
7.5.5, has an Asante MacCon 10 megabit Ethernet card installed in the
PDS expansion slot for internet connectivity, and runs the MacHTTP web
server full time, hosting a little website:
<http://zippy.kicks-ass.org:9997>
In article <iunp7lF31drU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
Nice! I still have an LC 475 in the closet here. Love that pizza box
case... : )
One of my favorite computer designs,
It's too bad the only way to get a PPC is to find one of those elusive upgrades. Unfortunately mine has come plastic damage, maybe I'll
acquire a non-working one at some point.
My oldest Mac is a Mac SE/30 which was originally purchased by my father
in the late 1980s. It was our first Mac. All of our other computers at
the time ran their own specific command-line operating system with no
graphical interface or mouse - just ugly text on an ugly screen. Home
Computers back then either used tape drives for storage or had floppy
drives with their own flavor of DOS.
The Mac we brought home was completely different. It was relatively
small compared to most computers of the time, was self-contained
(screen, CPU, floppy drive, etc were all housed in the case) and could
be carried with one hand. And unlike most, not only did it come with a
mouse, but the mouse was actually *required* to use it.
It completely changed the way I looked at computers for the better. And
while I was very much into programming our trusty TRS-80s in Basic and
Zilog assembly, the Mac with an OS geared from the ground up to be
driven by the GUI, along with Apple’s rich APIs and Pascal / 68k
assembly programming languages immediately took my attention and
opened new worlds to me. And the Mac SE/30 was pretty fast for a
computer at that time - hence the name. : )
My first mac was a IIcx that my dad acquired at a surplus auction, with a portrait monitor. I remember being floored that it didn't have any
scrolling text or command line the first time I booted it up. Apple was
truly thinking different with these machines. As much as I believe they
made the right decision with Unix being the basis of OS X, I can't help
but feel like something was lost the day they added a terminal to the Mac.
I've recently acquired Inside Macintosh Volumes 1-6 and I've been trying
to think up a project I would like to work on. Web development is my day
job and I know how to program in C, so I think I could come up with some classic mac apps.
Zippy is old, but still runs fine. I've replaced the cooling fan,
upgraded the RAM, and replaced the hard drive over the years. But other
than that, the hardware all original. It's currently running system
7.5.5, has an Asante MacCon 10 megabit Ethernet card installed in the
PDS expansion slot for internet connectivity, and runs the MacHTTP web
server full time, hosting a little website:
<http://zippy.kicks-ass.org:9997>
Love the website, it works pretty well on my LC 475, good work!
Nice! I still have an LC 475 in the closet here. Love that pizza box
case... : )
One of my favorite computer designs,
Yep, a great case design from when Apple actually allowed people to
upgrade their computers ... just pop the lid, no screws to bother with.
It's basically a more flattened copy of the old Apple II design.
I've recently acquired Inside Macintosh Volumes 1-6 and I've been trying
to think up a project I would like to work on. Web development is my day job and I know how to program in C, so I think I could come up with some classic mac apps.
Depending on which version of Classic Mac OS you're aiming at, Pascal
can be a option bet than C.
I was recently given a Quadra running OS-8.
Though I could put it on-line, I was more curious about setting up a printer.
To my amazement I was able to use my networked laser printer. Though
the printer is 15 years newer than the computer ...because of
Postscript it worked!
I was recently given a Quadra running OS-8.
Though I could put it on-line, I was more curious about setting up a printer.
To my amazement I was able to use my networked laser printer. Though the printer is 15 years newer than the computer ...because of Postscript it worked!
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
Yep, a great case design from when Apple actually allowed people tomac pro is easily upgraded without any screws and in all sorts of ways.
upgrade their computers ... just pop the lid, no screws to bother with.
It's basically a more flattened copy of the old Apple II design.
intel mac mini is also easy.
Depending on which version of Classic Mac OS you're aiming at, Pascalthere is no advantage for pascal, or c for that matter.
can be a option bet than C.
c++ would be the best choice.
I was recently given a Quadra running OS-8.printer is 15 years newer than the computer ...because of Postscript it worked!
Though I could put it on-line, I was more curious about setting up a printer.
To my amazement I was able to use my networked laser printer. Though the
I've recently acquired Inside Macintosh Volumes 1-6 and I've been trying
to think up a project I would like to work on. Web development is my day
job and I know how to program in C, so I think I could come up with some classic mac apps.
In comp.sys.mac.vintage, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
Yep, a great case design from when Apple actually allowed people tomac pro is easily upgraded without any screws and in all sorts of ways.
upgrade their computers ... just pop the lid, no screws to bother with.
It's basically a more flattened copy of the old Apple II design.
After you break your wallet buying it.
intel mac mini is also easy.
As far as I can tell, that one may be easy but has a bunch of screws.
The LC is probably between this IIsi and Quadra 610 in complexity, but
ifixit doesn't have a guide for it so I can't be certain:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Macintosh+IIsi+Disassembly/2748
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Macintosh+Quadra+610+Teardown/55176
The IIsi and the 128K are the only "classic mac" they have guides for
that I've taken apart myself. The IIci was virtually the same as the
IIsi for opening / repair work. The IIe (not a Mac, but in the "Classic
Mac" section" was easy to open, but used more screws.
Depending on which version of Classic Mac OS you're aiming at, Pascalthere is no advantage for pascal, or c for that matter.
can be a better option than C.
I've programmed for System 7 in C. You definitely got the feel that a
lot of stuff was written for Pascal, eg seeing Pascal style strings
in places.
c++ would be the best choice.
What C++? The C++ of today is nothing like the C++ of the late 1990s.
Elijah
------
C has changed, too, but slower
Yep, a great case design from when Apple actually allowed people tomac pro is easily upgraded without any screws and in all sorts of ways.
upgrade their computers ... just pop the lid, no screws to bother with.
It's basically a more flattened copy of the old Apple II design.
After you break your wallet buying it.
intel mac mini is also easy.
As far as I can tell, that one may be easy but has a bunch of screws.
The LC is probably between this IIsi and Quadra 610 in complexity, but
ifixit doesn't have a guide for it so I can't be certain:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Macintosh+IIsi+Disassembly/2748
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Macintosh+Quadra+610+Teardown/55176
The IIsi and the 128K are the only "classic mac" they have guides for
that I've taken apart myself.
The IIci was virtually the same as the
IIsi for opening / repair work.
The IIe (not a Mac, but in the "Classic
Mac" section" was easy to open, but used more screws.
Depending on which version of Classic Mac OS you're aiming at, Pascalthere is no advantage for pascal, or c for that matter.
can be a option bet than C.
I've programmed for System 7 in C. You definitely got the feel that a
lot of stuff was written for Pascal, eg seeing Pascal style strings
in places.
c++ would be the best choice.
What C++? The C++ of today is nothing like the C++ of the late 1990s.
Some models of Mac Pro and PowerMac towers require hinging out sections
to get to other sections, so not as easy as the old LC 'pop the lid and you're in'.
There was one Mac Mini model where the base could be turned to get it
off, but that only allowed limited access. Anything else did require unscrewing bits and sliding the motherboard out the back.
Many of the Mac Mini models aren't very upgradable, if at all, anyway
because Apple now tends to solder everything down. :(
Early versions of the Mac OS were written in / for Pascal programming.
MacOS 8 was when C really took over,
so if you're planning to write
programs for earlier than that, you're best to use Pascal.
Lightspeed /
Think Pascal is my personal favourite programming environment, even
today there's still nothing that comes close to its ease-of-use.
I was recently given a Quadra running OS-8.
Though I could put it on-line, I was more curious about setting up a
printer.
To my amazement I was able to use my networked laser printer. Though the printer is 15 years newer than the computer  ...because of Postscript
it worked!
Denodster wrote:
I've recently acquired Inside Macintosh Volumes 1-6 and I've been trying
to think up a project I would like to work on. Web development is my day job and I know how to program in C, so I think I could come up with some classic mac apps.
There's no time to lose. Better get started reading others' Macintosh code, even if you do nothing else. Check out the MacTutor/MacTech archives. Also the Apple Developer CD. Both include lots of sample code.
The MacTutor archives should be online at this URL: https://preserve.mactech.com/articles/index.html
I wasn't able to load it just now, so maybe it'll work later. :-/
In article <smjav8$5tq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net>
wrote:
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
I had them up in my attic fro 15 years and brought them down recently as
I was given a bunch old old Mac HD's
AFAIK the SE will only recognize a 20, 40 or 80 meg drive.
Out the the many drives I had, I found a total of three that stayed
working after several boot-ups.
One drive was HFS+ but one was the original Mac FS.
Though there are plenty of ways to read an HJFS+ drive from Windows or
Linux, I had to transfer the files from the Mac FS machine to the HFS
machine via floppy.
In article <z9ydndyDor2DohD8nZ2dnUU78WHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, David
Kennedy <davidkennedy@nospamherethankyou.invalid> wrote:
I'm fairly sure I can remember needing appletalk adaptors when trying toI also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first
mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
network three Apple Plus machines round about 1987 ish...
exactly the point.
those appletalk adapters, more accurately called localtalk adapters,
was all that was needed because networking was built into every mac.
they were simple passive devices that went between the mac and the
localtalk cables, just like an aui adapter did for ethernet (thicknet, (coax/thinnet/10b-2, 10b-t), token ring, etc.
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Apple_LocalTa lk_box_interior_1.jpg/1024px-Apple_LocalTalk_box_interior_1.jpg>
phonenet was a more popular option because it used ordinary telephone
cord, which meant existing wiring in the walls could be used without
needing to run additional cables, making it a less expensive and far
more convenient option.
i remember carrying phonenet adapters and rj-11 phone cord in my laptop
bag so that i could instantly set up a network with several other users
at any time, anywhere. instant lan parties.
ethernet required either a card in the internal pds slot of the mac se
or an external ethernet adapter that looked a lot like a phonenet
adapter and connected to the existing localtalk port. asante and
farralon made both, as well as others.
there were also ethernet/localtalk bridges to bridge both localtalk and ethernet. i had a mac ii with several ethernet cards for a fairly
complex network setup.
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
I'm fairly sure I can remember needing appletalk adaptors when trying to network three Apple Plus machines round about 1987 ish...
On 11/11/2021 15:36, nospam wrote:
In article <smjav8$5tq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net>
wrote:
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
I'm fairly sure I can remember needing appletalk adaptors when trying to network three Apple Plus machines round about 1987 ish...
I remember having them; the rest blurs into the mists of time now...
I do recall how bloody useful it was when it came to returning to the office and simply plugging into everything with the Mac Portable!
Still got it somewhere, wonder if it still works?
I'm posting this using an etherwave adapter, which is a localtalk to
ethernet bridge, I have it plugged into the serial port for the modem. The device is plug and play but only if you have a MacIP server, because it
won't do DHCP... such a device would work on any mac that can support appletalk (I believe even the 512k can). I've used it with a classic and
an SE.
Pretty sure if want to do TCP/IP with a modern router you need an
ethernet card.
In article <smjav8$5tq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net>
wrote:
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
I had them up in my attic fro 15 years and brought them down recently as
I was given a bunch old old Mac HD's
AFAIK the SE will only recognize a 20, 40 or 80 meg drive.
very much wrong.
a mac se will recognize up to 2 gigabyte hard drives, and with system
7.5, up to 4 gigabytes.
Out the the many drives I had, I found a total of three that stayed
working after several boot-ups.
drives can still work and not be bootable.
One drive was HFS+ but one was the original Mac FS.
none were the original mac fs, known as mfs. that was for 400k floppies.
you probably mean hfs, which replaced mfs to support the larger
capacity 800k floppies and hard drives, before the mac se was released.
some very, very early hard drives were mfs only because the predated
hfs and were mostly a clusterfuck to use.
hfs+ came much later, with mac os 8.1, which won't work on a mac se.
On 11/11/2021 15:36, nospam wrote:
In article <smjav8$5tq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net>I'm fairly sure I can remember needing appletalk adaptors when trying to network three Apple Plus machines round about 1987 ish...
wrote:
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first
mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
One drive was HFS+ but one was the original Mac FS.
none were the original mac fs, known as mfs. that was for 400k floppies.
you probably mean hfs, which replaced mfs to support the larger
capacity 800k floppies and hard drives, before the mac se was released.
some very, very early hard drives were mfs only because the predated
hfs and were mostly a clusterfuck to use.
hfs+ came much later, with mac os 8.1, which won't work on a mac se.
gparted (on my linux machine) could recognize HFS /HFS+ drives but the
one SE had a drive that gparted could not identify.
I assume it must have been MFS (FWIF, it's 20 meg)
I guess I've got a real collector's item
In article <WI6dnfWwq8T-0xD8nZ2dnUU78fWdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, David
Kennedy <davidkennedy@nospamherethankyou.invalid> wrote:
I remember having them; the rest blurs into the mists of time now...
it does, but it's fun to reminisce to a time when things were much
simpler.
I do recall how bloody useful it was when it came to returning to the office >> and simply plugging into everything with the Mac Portable!
the mac that had the wrong name...
Still got it somewhere, wonder if it still works?
the battery is almost certainly dead.
it was a lead-acid battery, much like the ones in a modern ups.
the mac portable was designed to run off the battery, even when
connected to mains, which only served to charge the battery, not power
the unit, so a dead battery is going to be a problem.
i'm not sure where you can find a replacement battery, but you can
always connect an external battery, making the non-portable mac even
less portable. be sure to get the correct voltage.
I don't know how easy they are to find now, but I've used a Cayman GatorBox CS to bridge an Apple IIGS and a Color Classic to Linux servers running netatalk. I think I even had them talking to a G4 Mac mini when the Mac was running Tiger. Other LocalTalk-to-Ethernet bridges might work, but the
trick with getting older hardware talking to newer hardware is EtherTalk support. Linux still supports EtherTalk if you have the right kernel
modules compiled, but IIRC Mac OS X dropped EtherTalk support after 10.4.
On 11/11/2021 15:36, nospam wrote:
In article <smjav8$5tq$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net>I'm fairly sure I can remember needing appletalk adaptors when trying to
wrote:
I also have some SE's but no networking on them.
yes they very definitely do.
*every* mac ever made has networking and in fact, macs were the first
mainstream computers include it, without any additional hardware.
localtalk is built in. ethernet cards were an optional extra, either
with an internal pds card or via an external adapter or network bridge.
network three Apple Plus machines round about 1987 ish...
I have an adapter that will work with my Quadra but nothing for the SE
In article <smkbb5$1pae$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net>
wrote:
One drive was HFS+ but one was the original Mac FS.
none were the original mac fs, known as mfs. that was for 400k floppies. >>>
you probably mean hfs, which replaced mfs to support the larger
capacity 800k floppies and hard drives, before the mac se was released.
some very, very early hard drives were mfs only because the predated
hfs and were mostly a clusterfuck to use.
hfs+ came much later, with mac os 8.1, which won't work on a mac se.
gparted (on my linux machine) could recognize HFS /HFS+ drives but the
one SE had a drive that gparted could not identify.
is it readable on the mac? if not, it could be corrupted.
I assume it must have been MFS (FWIF, it's 20 meg)
it is not mfs.
snip,
One drive however is not recognized by gparted nor is it recognized on
my Windows machine with various utilities for reading Mac drives.
Since it is evidently not an HFS or an HFS+ drive I surmised that it was
If you say it is not MFS...my question however is what file system is on it?
Ergo:
I surmised the drive was MFS as it was NOT HFS or HFS+
MFS supports hard drives up to 20 megs.
The drive was 20 megs.
(all other drives were 40 meg or 80 megs)
MFS support was removed with OS7.6.1
All the machines were OS 7.1 or 7.5
snip,
In article <smn7pg$1qht$1@gioia.aioe.org>, philo <philo@privacy.net> wrote:
snip
One drive however is not recognized by gparted nor is it recognized on
my Windows machine with various utilities for reading Mac drives.
Since it is evidently not an HFS or an HFS+ drive I surmised that it was
If you say it is not MFS...my question however is what file system is on it? >>
did ever have a machine set up to run apple unix? I believe that had it's
own filesystem.
Ergo:
I surmised the drive was MFS as it was NOT HFS or HFS+
MFS supports hard drives up to 20 megs.
The drive was 20 megs.
(all other drives were 40 meg or 80 megs)
MFS support was removed with OS7.6.1
All the machines were OS 7.1 or 7.5
snip,
To correct my typo in a previous post of mine, the only drives I had
that would boot on the SE's were 20 meg 40 meg or 80 meg
Since it is evidently not an HFS or an HFS+ drive I surmised that it was
If you say it is not MFS...my question however is what file system is on it?
MFS supports hard drives up to 20 megs.
The drive was 20 megs.
(all other drives were 40 meg or 80 megs)
MFS support was removed with OS7.6.1
All the machines were OS 7.1 or 7.5
did ever have a machine set up to run apple unix? I believe that had it's
own filesystem.
If the drive is HFS , why does Gparted and all the Mac reading Windows utilities say the partition type is unknown?
Denodster <denodster@gmail.com> wrote:
did ever have a machine set up to run apple unix? I believe that had it's
own filesystem.
it did, however, a/ux was not supported on a mac se.
In article <37cdbba28f957500d95f5677f424b5f2@news.novabbs.com>, philo <philo@news.novabbs.com> wrote:
If the drive is HFS , why does Gparted and all the Mac reading Windows
utilities say the partition type is unknown?
without seeing it, i can only guess.
is it readable on a mac??
if not, it's most likely directory corruption. it could also be
unformatted. it's *not* mfs.
post the first 64 bytes of the first four blocks.
I think I have it figured out, and you are right, it has to be HFS.
I just pulled the machine back out of storage and booted it up.
It was not running OS-7 it's running OS 6.0.4
What I did not know was that there were two versions of HFS prior to HFS+
This evidently is the first version which supports up to 2 gig drives.
The 2nd version starting with OS 7.5 (I believe) supports 4 Gig drives.
What I have therefore surmised is that the Linux and Windows Mac-reading utilities must simply not recognize early HFS.
The drive is not corrupted because I just now ran a diagnostic and it
checked OK
You need to read Apple's knowledge base.
It clearly states that HFS was modified once and semi-clearly states twice.
HFS+ first came out with OS8
Since you do not how to search the Apple knowledge base, I will no longer be reading your replies.
Though you ended up wrong again as usual,
I did at least learn somethig about
MFS.
In article <5LBjJ.49931$SR4.6229@fx43.iad>, Scott Alfter ><scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
I don't know how easy they are to find now, but I've used a Cayman GatorBox >> CS to bridge an Apple IIGS and a Color Classic to Linux servers running
netatalk. I think I even had them talking to a G4 Mac mini when the Mac was >> running Tiger. Other LocalTalk-to-Ethernet bridges might work, but the
trick with getting older hardware talking to newer hardware is EtherTalk
support. Linux still supports EtherTalk if you have the right kernel
modules compiled, but IIRC Mac OS X dropped EtherTalk support after 10.4.
or just use a vintage mac. :)
Pretty sure if want to do TCP/IP with a modern router you need an
ethernet card.
tcp worked over localtalk. an ethernet card was obviously quite a bit
faster, but it was not needed.
Am 11.11.21 um 18:27 schrieb nospam:
Pretty sure if want to do TCP/IP with a modern router you need an
ethernet card.
tcp worked over localtalk. an ethernet card was obviously quite a bit
faster, but it was not needed.
But dont forget SLIP. Without any adapter. All you needed was a serial
cable to a second computer with WIFI or whatever to the internet.
To connect LocalTalk and Ethernet network segments, you need either a Mac with^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
both ports, or a hardware bridge. Unfortunately, those are becoming rare.
Posting on my LC 475 running Internews. This is my first time on Usenet
and I'm thrilled to find this group. Running system 7.6.1 and MacIP via
an old cisco router. It's been a fun project and I'm thrilled to get to
use it like this.
What kind of hardware are you all running? and how did you get it
online?
In article <sm502u$nbh$2@dont-email.me>,
denodster@gmail.com (denodster) wrote:
Posting on my LC 475 running Internews. This is my first time on Usenet
and I'm thrilled to find this group. Running system 7.6.1 and MacIP via
an old cisco router. It's been a fun project and I'm thrilled to get to
use it like this.
What kind of hardware are you all running? and how did you get it
online?
I'm using MT-Newswatcher 2.4.4 on my Mac IIci. As far as I know, it's
the last version for 68k Macintoshes. It works really nice! The IIci
sports 32 MB RAM (who'd ever need that much RAM anyway, right?)
Recently invested into a PiSCSI (RaSCSI) add-on that provides my IIci
with an internet connection and a virtual CD drive by sacrificing an old Raspberry Pi I had left.
I'm really excited how well the IIci and Usenet communicate together.
Feels natural.
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