• Help with ancient font files...

    From Christian@21:1/5 to Andre G. Isaak on Fri Aug 10 13:49:54 2018
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for
    this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    Christian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to Christian on Fri Aug 10 14:45:35 2018
    Christian wrote:
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for
    this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have
    failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to Andre G. Isaak on Fri Aug 10 14:44:51 2018
    Andre G. Isaak wrote:
    For arcane reasons, I am currently attempting to extract a number of
    ancient bitmap fonts from an early version of the Macintosh Traditional Chinese System (System 6.0.3-TA)

    Unfortunately, these fonts are in the 'fbit' format rather than the
    normal FONT/NFNT format and I have been utterly unable to find any information on this format.

    I found this Usenet article; maybe you found it too. Doesn't have a lot of answers, but it suggests that fbit resources are bitmaps: https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=25&id=20274

    Does anyone have
    any ideas where one might find information on this format???

    You'll need to get Apple's documentation for language kits. Try this:

    Inside Macintosh: QuickDraw GX Typography (The QuickDraw GX library)


    --
    ]DF$
    The New Apple II User's Guide:
    https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian@21:1/5 to D Finnigan on Sat Aug 11 00:32:02 2018
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:

    Christian wrote:
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for >> this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have >> failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to Christian on Fri Aug 10 20:25:52 2018
    In article <1ntcesn.pxxxvmgoyug5N%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    Christian <christian180415@ghanart.org> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for >> this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have >> failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    back then there were no extensions, unless the files came from another platform.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From D Finnigan@21:1/5 to Christian on Sat Aug 11 00:23:18 2018
    Christian wrote:
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:

    Christian wrote:
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks
    for
    this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac
    have
    failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.


    He is using the classic Macintosh operating system, which associates files
    with applications based on a 4-character type and creator code which is
    stored as part of the metadata for each file in the catalog. He said the
    files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    --
    ]DF$
    The New Apple II User's Guide:
    https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andre G. Isaak@21:1/5 to D Finnigan on Fri Aug 10 20:47:20 2018
    In article <dog_cow-1533912288@macgui.com>,
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak wrote:
    For arcane reasons, I am currently attempting to extract a number of ancient bitmap fonts from an early version of the Macintosh Traditional Chinese System (System 6.0.3-TA)

    Unfortunately, these fonts are in the 'fbit' format rather than the
    normal FONT/NFNT format and I have been utterly unable to find any information on this format.

    I found this Usenet article; maybe you found it too. Doesn't have a lot of answers, but it suggests that fbit resources are bitmaps: https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=25&id=20274

    Does anyone have
    any ideas where one might find information on this format???

    You'll need to get Apple's documentation for language kits. Try this:

    Inside Macintosh: QuickDraw GX Typography (The QuickDraw GX library)

    That's *way* too recent -- GX hadn't been invented at this time (nor,
    for that matter, had language kits). But I have gone through the entire
    Inside Macintosh Library and what technical notes I had the good sense
    to archive, and there's no mention of them in any of these sources. I
    have a sinking suspicion that any documentation which might have been
    created is likely only available in Japanese.

    Andre

    --
    To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Christian on Sat Aug 11 14:26:51 2018
    On 2018-08-10 22:32:02 +0000, Christian said:
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
    Christian wrote:
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for >>>> this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have >>>> failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    There probably isn't one. "Classic" MacOS files don't need nor normally
    have a filename extension. The exception is really only when a file
    that has been transferred from Windoze, but even then you can just
    rename it to get rid of the useless extension.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andre G. Isaak@21:1/5 to Christian on Fri Aug 10 21:01:43 2018
    In article <1ntbkzx.q56861cmk4uzN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    christian180415@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    Christian

    No file extension. The first part is of Type MsBK and Creator MrBK and
    is entirely data-fork based. The second part is type fbit Creator TSYS
    which would also be the type/creator of the completed file. This is a resource-fork based file, but is not usable as is.

    The file names themselves are in pre-Unicode Chinese.

    Note that the disks on which each part occur also contain an invisible
    file called InvisHDBo3b. These is a data-fork based files with an empty
    type and creator.

    Andre

    --
    To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian@21:1/5 to nospam on Sat Aug 11 08:18:25 2018
    nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

    In article <1ntcesn.pxxxvmgoyug5N%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    Christian <christian180415@ghanart.org> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install
    disks for this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I
    have been unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in
    Mini vMac have failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    back then there were no extensions, unless the files came from another platform.

    Not true, if you say there were none. There were at least some.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian@21:1/5 to Andre G. Isaak on Sat Aug 11 08:18:25 2018
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    In article <1ntbkzx.q56861cmk4uzN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    christian180415@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    Christian

    No file extension. The first part is of Type MsBK and Creator MrBK and
    is entirely data-fork based. The second part is type fbit Creator TSYS
    which would also be the type/creator of the completed file. This is a resource-fork based file, but is not usable as is.

    Then they are probably not a segmented file, since there was normally
    (at least in StuffIt, I think) the first segment had a file extension
    (.sit or so) and the others the segment number appended to their file
    name. Otherwise, on re-joining the segments the computer / the
    application would not be able to determine the order of the files.

    The file names themselves are in pre-Unicode Chinese.

    Note that the disks on which each part occur also contain an invisible
    file called InvisHDBo3b. These is a data-fork based files with an empty
    type and creator.

    Have you tried to look into the contents of that invisible file?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian@21:1/5 to D Finnigan on Sat Aug 11 08:18:25 2018
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:

    He is using the classic Macintosh operating system, which associates files with applications based on a 4-character type and creator code which is stored as part of the metadata for each file in the catalog. He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    Why don't you let the perseon reply who asked the question originally?
    Why are you creating so much unnecessary noise?

    Yes, the "calssic system" used these codes, but it sometimes _also_
    appended file extensions (like StuffIt and CompactPro did it).
    Especially in segmented archives, type/creator codes were NOT sufficient
    to detemine the order of the individuel parts to be re-joined.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Christian@21:1/5 to Your Name on Sat Aug 11 08:18:25 2018
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    On 2018-08-10 22:32:02 +0000, Christian said:
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
    Christian wrote:
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for >>>> this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been
    unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have >>>> failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to
    advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    There probably isn't one. "Classic" MacOS files don't need nor normally
    have a filename extension. The exception is really only when a file
    that has been transferred from Windoze, but even then you can just
    rename it to get rid of the useless extension.

    Only partially true statement - sorry, you failed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Your Name@21:1/5 to Christian on Sat Aug 11 18:26:08 2018
    On 2018-08-11 06:18:25 +0000, Christian said:

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    On 2018-08-10 22:32:02 +0000, Christian said:
    D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote:
    Christian wrote:
    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for >>>>>> this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been >>>>>> unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have >>>>>> failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to >>>>> advise you how tou re-join them.

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    There probably isn't one. "Classic" MacOS files don't need nor normally
    have a filename extension. The exception is really only when a file
    that has been transferred from Windoze, but even then you can just
    rename it to get rid of the useless extension.

    Only partially true statement - sorry, you failed.

    Ahh, you're one of *those*. Got it ... added you to my killfile. :-\

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andre G. Isaak@21:1/5 to Andre G. Isaak on Sat Aug 11 01:39:29 2018
    In article <agisaak-BA01E0.01360511082018@news.eternal-september.org>,
    "Andre G. Isaak" <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    In article <1ntd065.jd45671m43b2rN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    christian180415@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    In article <1ntbkzx.q56861cmk4uzN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    christian180415@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for
    this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have
    failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to advise you how tou re-join them.

    Christian

    No file extension. The first part is of Type MsBK and Creator MrBK and
    is entirely data-fork based. The second part is type fbit Creator TSYS which would also be the type/creator of the completed file. This is a resource-fork based file, but is not usable as is.

    Then they are probably not a segmented file, since there was normally
    (at least in StuffIt, I think) the first segment had a file extension
    (.sit or so) and the others the segment number appended to their file
    name.

    The file names begin with a part number 1-, 2-

    Similarly split files are also present in some other CJK systems, where
    the names end in (1/3), (2/3) and (3/3). The final part always has the type/creator codes of the reassembled files, and the remaining parts are MsBK/MrBK.

    Sorry, I misspoke. The file names always begin with a part number (the
    (1/3) I was looking at was the name of the disk image, not the file).

    Andre

    --
    To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andre G. Isaak@21:1/5 to Christian on Sat Aug 11 01:36:05 2018
    In article <1ntd065.jd45671m43b2rN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    christian180415@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    In article <1ntbkzx.q56861cmk4uzN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    christian180415@ghanart.org (Christian) wrote:

    Andre G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> wrote:

    To make matters worse, several fonts included with the install disks for
    this system are split in two to fit on 800K disks, but I have been unable to rejoin them. Attempting to run the installer in Mini vMac have
    failed to rejoin these two-part archives.

    What file ending (extension) do these parts have? This might help to advise you how tou re-join them.

    Christian

    No file extension. The first part is of Type MsBK and Creator MrBK and
    is entirely data-fork based. The second part is type fbit Creator TSYS which would also be the type/creator of the completed file. This is a resource-fork based file, but is not usable as is.

    Then they are probably not a segmented file, since there was normally
    (at least in StuffIt, I think) the first segment had a file extension
    (.sit or so) and the others the segment number appended to their file
    name.

    The file names begin with a part number 1-, 2-

    Similarly split files are also present in some other CJK systems, where
    the names end in (1/3), (2/3) and (3/3). The final part always has the type/creator codes of the reassembled files, and the remaining parts are MsBK/MrBK.

    The split files are always the larger sizes of bitmap fonts which, for
    2-byte scripts, are typically larger than the 800K size standard for
    floppies at that time.

    Otherwise, on re-joining the segments the computer / the
    application would not be able to determine the order of the files.

    Presumably the relevant program can determine the order from the files themselves rather than by relying on the file name, since there doesn't
    appear to be a consistent naming convention in use.

    The file names themselves are in pre-Unicode Chinese.

    Note that the disks on which each part occur also contain an invisible
    file called InvisHDBo3b. These is a data-fork based files with an empty type and creator.

    Have you tried to look into the contents of that invisible file?

    Yes, but there's nothing in them that I can make sense of.

    Andre

    --
    To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nospam@21:1/5 to Christian on Sat Aug 11 10:30:06 2018
    In article <1ntd01d.n1a41s1jylqecN%christian180415@ghanart.org>,
    Christian <christian180415@ghanart.org> wrote:

    He said the files have a creator/type of MrBK/MsBK.

    I had asked for the file extension.

    back then there were no extensions, unless the files came from another platform.

    Not true, if you say there were none. There were at least some.

    however, extensions were ignored. classic mac os used type & creator,
    *not* extensions.

    quicktime added the ability to map extensions with creator codes to aid
    in exchanging files with other platforms, but that was much later
    (system 7.6 or so, don't remember exactly).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)