Helloof only two oscillators on the board (and no programmable PLL), providing 25.175MHz and 44.9MHz pixel clocks for the 640×480 and 1024×768 resolutions, respectively.
I've done a bit of reading on a 8514 Graphics card I have, and understand that it displays only a very specific resolution /refresh rate s 1024 x 768 / 256 colors @ 43 hurtzzz, and is useful for fast drawing of vectorized graphics... ok cool.
From reading the card is suppose to use the Auxiliary Video Extension to sort of pass through VGA from the onboard out the graphics card.
What I want to understand better is this bit of text:
"8514/A Display Modes
The IBM 8514/A only supported two resolutions: 640×480 and 1024×768. The basic 8514/A with 512KB VRAM only supported 16 colors; the 512KB memory expansion brought the total to 1MB VRAM and supported 256 colors as well.
The very limited set of resolutions was purely a function of the 8514/A display controller—the accelerator was much more flexible, and in fact 8514/A clones often supported 800×600 and 1280×1024 resolutions as well. The limitation was a consequence
"
So 640x480 is supported, anyone?
from
https://www.os2museum.com/wp/the-8514a-graphics-accelerator/
Indeed the graphics card does have 2 oscillators on it.card does not pass thru the AVE? Or it does and mine is simply broken? Maybe I missing the big picture here...
Q1. Is it possible to use this card at 640x480, or would that be coming from the onboard?
Q2. When I've installed this card into my system, I installed the ADF and can see the card and its resources listed, however there is no display output at all, it is plugged into the MCA slot with Auxiliary Video Extension... So does that mean this
Q3. Could changing the oscillators lead to the use of different resolutions? ( probably have to fiddle with driver, adf as well , who knows what else).
This info is somewhat contradicted by the 8514 specific page on ardent tool, which lists only 1 resolution supported for it.
Anyhow it probably isn't the best card to use, but it looks cool, and I'd like to if I can tolerate the 43 hertz, or run it at 640x480 instead, if that is even possible.
Thanks,
Jonathan
The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher than 640x480.
https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A in
a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my SWAG
is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't know if
anyone has tried it and reported the results.
To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.
Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].
My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA drivers will do. Maybe.
You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.
https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html
I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.
We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
in free air does not hurt the card or system.
Louis Ohland wrote:
The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher
than 640x480.
https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A
in a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my
SWAG is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't
know if anyone has tried it and reported the results.
Yeah, I suspect that you could sort of create a dual ahead sort of setup using one of these back in the day.
Thanks Louis - I only actually tried it in the AVE slot... I did not
get any video output at all. I don't know why I didn't think to try it
in other slots, even the 20 year old version of me would have at least
tried that... sigh.
I know the card was picked up, while using the onboard GFX, I observed
the usual system config changed message, and after loading the ADF in set/view cfg I can indeed see the card listed and the slot its in.
I will try putting the card in a non-ave 16bit slot and while im at it
even a 32 bit one and report back when I get the machine backup on the
bench!
I will also connect a real monitor to it, I used a KVM for my testing
which in retrospect might have affected the outcome as well (probably
not, but maybe).
Thanks for the bit on the terminators, I hadn't stumbled across that
or even thought about that.
Have a few things to try here for sure before giving up, just figured
I'd ask around and see if anyone else had played around with this
before me.
Cheers,
Jonathan
On Wednesday 10 January 2024 at 21:46:05 UTC-5, Louis Ohland wrote:
To be sehr klar... I need you to take an 8514/A, install it into a
Non-AVE 16-bit slot [or a 32-bit if you can waste one], and bring up the
system. My SWAG is this was never done because everyone knows it goes in
the AVE 16-bit slot because the Holy Ordos IBM ordained it so.
Put the video cable on the system board VGA at the first boot, if the
8514/A is happy under set and view configuration, -MAYBE- it supports
VGA. At what color depth, I dunno, as the 8514/A uses the INMOS
IMSG171S-50 RAMDAC. Perhaps the mythical Mode 13 might help beat out
more possumbilities, but you have a 18-bit DAC [6-6-6].
My further SWAG is the 8514/A could do VGA if in a non-AVE slot, and VGA
drivers will do. Maybe.
You might need a video terminator, but since both VGA sources aren't on
the Video Extension, there isn't excess video signal on the AVE.
https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Terminator_Pinout.html
I'm not sure about the I/O address of the 8514/A.
We run the BVE XGA-2 with the BVE portion sticking outside the slot in a
Model 90 [which has planar XGA]. Having the AVE or BVE contacts hanging
in free air does not hurt the card or system.
Louis Ohland wrote:
The AVE and BVE thing is not altogether useful for anything higher than
640x480.
https://www.ardent-tool.com/video/Video_Extension.html
Just as an exercise in mental gymnastics, can you install the 8514/A in
a NON-AVE 16-bit slot? When you stick it into a 16-bit AVE slot, my SWAG >>> is that turns off the 640x480 from the 8514/A. I really don't know if
anyone has tried it and reported the results.
Dears in most of the case the issue lies with the (incorrect) jumper settings. Please look at my photos in ardent for a default (working)
config. Be careful of the two different versions which need different
setups.
Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net> wrote:
I looked at the images, there is no apparent outline for a second port
on the 8514/A, nor are there any solder pads for any AVE header, unlike
on the XGA.
Huh, maybe the XGA was considered for dual head?
Jonathan Carron wrote:
Yeah, I suspect that you could sort of create a dual ahead sort of setup >>> using one of these back in the day.
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