• Mike Lynch not guilty of defrauding HP

    From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 12 12:34:17 2024
    [This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
    mentioned it yet.]

    The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
    from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
    been found not guilty of all charges.

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/

    I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

    It was a pleasant and unexpected surprise seeing a US court (and in SF
    as well!) actually believe a UK citizen over a US company.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Robert A. Brooks on Wed Jun 12 13:36:52 2024
    On 6/12/2024 1:24 PM, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 8:34 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    [This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
    mentioned it yet.]

    The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
    from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
    been found not guilty of all charges.

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/

    I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

    If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.

    However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

    I don't think there will be any impact.

    According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.

    Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
    fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.

    Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
    convicted and served 5 years.

    Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
    been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
    he was involved in product development and product sales
    but not in financial reports.

    HPE is probably only interested in the civil case and
    the compensation amount.

    Arne

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  • From Robert A. Brooks@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Wed Jun 12 13:24:31 2024
    On 6/12/2024 8:34 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    [This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has mentioned it yet.]

    The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
    from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
    been found not guilty of all charges.

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/

    I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

    If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.

    However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.


    --
    -- Rob

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Thu Jun 13 12:34:18 2024
    On 2024-06-12, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 1:24 PM, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 8:34 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    [This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
    mentioned it yet.]

    The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited
    from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
    been found not guilty of all charges.

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/

    I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

    If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.

    However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco
    awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

    I don't think there will be any impact.

    According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.

    Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
    fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.


    I wonder if there is now a case for an appeal or a major reduction in
    the amount of penalty that needs to be paid.

    Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
    convicted and served 5 years.


    Likewise.

    Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
    been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
    he was involved in product development and product sales
    but not in financial reports.


    The fact these prior two cases exist make me even more surprised about
    the not guilty verdict in this case. Regardless of how you look at it,
    it was _very_ clear that HP did not do their homework when deciding whether
    to buy Autonomy which made the guilty verdicts in the first two cases
    even more surprising.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Thu Jun 13 17:22:36 2024
    On 6/13/2024 8:34 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2024-06-12, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 1:24 PM, Robert A. Brooks wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 8:34 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    [This happened several days ago, so I am surprised to see nobody has
    mentioned it yet.]

    The criminal trial of Mike Lynch of Autonomy, which saw him extradited >>>> from the UK against his will, has ended in disaster for HP, as he has
    been found not guilty of all charges.

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/06/mike_lynch_cleared/

    I wonder if this is going to have any implications for today's HP.

    If anything, I'd expect it would affect HPE, not HP, Inc.

    However, given that HP(E) took a massive writeoff for the Autonomy fiasco >>> awhile ago, I suspect it'll have a tiny impact, if at all.

    I don't think there will be any impact.

    According to the article there has been 3 separate trials.

    Civil fraud case in the UK. HPE won and they are currently
    fighting over the compensation amount. HPE wants 4 B$.


    I wonder if there is now a case for an appeal or a major reduction in
    the amount of penalty that needs to be paid.

    Criminal case against Autonomy CFO in the US. He was
    convicted and served 5 years.

    Likewise.

    Criminal case against Autonomy CEO in the US. He has now
    been acquitted. His defense seems to have focused on that
    he was involved in product development and product sales
    but not in financial reports.

    The fact these prior two cases exist make me even more surprised about
    the not guilty verdict in this case. Regardless of how you look at it,
    it was _very_ clear that HP did not do their homework when deciding whether to buy Autonomy which made the guilty verdicts in the first two cases
    even more surprising.

    I think the 3 cases had very different questions to answer:

    Is is proven that Autonomy provided false information to HP before the deal?

    Is is proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Autonomy CFO knew the
    information was false?

    Is is proved beyond reasonable doubt that the Autonomy CEO knew the
    information was false?

    3 different courts said: YES, YES and NO.

    Nothing inconsistent in that.

    If the main reason behind the CEO's acquittal was that the jury
    believed there was reasonable doubt about how much he knew about
    the company's accounting practices, then the verdict means
    nothing for the two other trials.

    +++

    And I don't think buyer not checking information provided by
    seller is a good argument for that false information does
    not mean fraud.

    Arne

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Fri Jun 14 12:17:18 2024
    On 2024-06-13, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:

    And I don't think buyer not checking information provided by
    seller is a good argument for that false information does
    not mean fraud.


    A buyer has a duty to evaluate whether the information they are
    being told is correct or not. HP clearly did not carry out this
    process to the standards required and expected. In fact, wasn't
    one of the senior HP employees who actively warned about buying
    Autonomy either moved aside by HP or just ignored ?

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Fri Jun 14 09:16:50 2024
    On 6/14/2024 8:17 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2024-06-13, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    And I don't think buyer not checking information provided by
    seller is a good argument for that false information does
    not mean fraud.

    A buyer has a duty to evaluate whether the information they are
    being told is correct or not.

    They should, but that does not make it legal to provide
    false information.

    If one lie in financial documents to a buyer, a bank or the
    tax authorities then it is fraud and one can be put in jail.

    That they could check the information does not make
    it non-fraud.

    HP clearly did not carry out this
    process to the standards required and expected. In fact, wasn't
    one of the senior HP employees who actively warned about buying
    Autonomy either moved aside by HP or just ignored ?

    HP has acknowledged that.

    They did a write off of 8.8 B$.

    And they want 4 B$ as compensation.

    price paid - actual value = 8.8 B$
    and
    value per books - actual value = 4.0 B$

    price paid - value per books = 4.8 B$

    If my math is correct then HP has already admitted that
    they overpaid 4.8 B$.

    And if the 4.0 B$ get reduced then the math becomes
    worse.

    Arne

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