• Basic again

    From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 10 21:04:15 2024
    My lack of skills in VMS Basic are back to haunt me.

    $ type z.pas
    program z(input,output);

    begin
    writeln('XXX');
    writeln('YYY' + chr(13) + chr(10));
    writeln('ZZZ');
    end.
    $ pas z
    $ link z
    $ r z
    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ
    $ type z.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z
    $ link z
    $ run z
    XXX
    YYY
    ZZZ

    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic
    example??

    (VMS Basic 1.8 on VMS Alpha)

    Arne

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  • From Dave Froble@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 10 21:53:46 2024
    On 3/10/2024 9:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    My lack of skills in VMS Basic are back to haunt me.

    $ type z.pas
    program z(input,output);

    begin
    writeln('XXX');
    writeln('YYY' + chr(13) + chr(10));
    writeln('ZZZ');
    end.
    $ pas z
    $ link z
    $ r z
    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ
    $ type z.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z
    $ link z
    $ run z
    XXX
    YYY
    ZZZ

    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic
    example??

    (VMS Basic 1.8 on VMS Alpha)

    Arne

    Interesting behavior ...

    So, some delimiters to see what is happening. One could also write to a file, then open it with EDT and see the actual characters.

    print "(ZZZ)"; "("; CR; ")"; "("; LF; ")"
    )(ZZ)(
    )

    So, what happens above, up to the CR the data is printed, then the CR does just that, moves the cursor back to the left, then data up to the LF is printed, then
    the LF happens, and the last character is displayed. Note, the LF will advance the line, but does not return the cursor to the left.

    Ok, this program writes to a file, then the data is displayed in EDT, then the file is typed.

    1 Open "Y.Y" For Output as File #1%

    Print #1%, "<"; "ZZZ"; ">"; "<"; CR; ">"; "<"; LF; ">"

    Close #1
    End

    <ZZZ><<CR>><<LF>>

    Note that the CR is depicted as <CR> and the LF is depicted as <LF> in EDT.

    $ type y.y
    <ZZ><
    >

    The first 6 characters are displayed <ZZZ><
    Then the CR happens, cursor is then at column 1
    Then the >< is displayed, cursor is now in column 3
    Then the LF happens
    Then the last character, >, is displayed

    Funny things happen when CR and LF are embedded in text on a display.

    :-)

    In your example, the CR can return the cursor to column 1, but it appears the LF
    doesn't give you the extra blank line. I can only guess that the print statement might not add a second LF. A bit strange.

    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Dave Froble on Sun Mar 10 22:34:48 2024
    On 3/10/2024 9:53 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
    On 3/10/2024 9:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    My lack of skills in VMS Basic are back to haunt me.

    $ type z.pas
    program z(input,output);

    begin
       writeln('XXX');
       writeln('YYY' + chr(13) + chr(10));
       writeln('ZZZ');
    end.
    $ pas z
    $ link z
    $ r z
    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ
    $ type z.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z
    $ link z
    $ run z
    XXX
    YYY
    ZZZ

    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic
    example??

    (VMS Basic 1.8 on VMS Alpha)

    Interesting behavior ...

    Funny things happen when CR and LF are embedded in text on a display.

    :-)

    In your example, the CR can return the cursor to column 1, but it
    appears the LF doesn't give you the extra blank line.  I can only guess
    that the print statement might not add a second LF.  A bit strange.

    The mystery evolves:

    $ type z2.bas
    program z2

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z2
    $ link z2
    $ run z2
    XXX
    YYY


    ZZZ

    1 LF => no blank line
    2 LF => two blank lines

    Arne

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 11 05:28:22 2024
    On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 21:04:15 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic example??

    Because two different language implementation teams came to two different decisions about how to map character streams onto VMS’ insistence that
    files be made out of records.

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Mon Mar 11 13:13:31 2024
    On 2024-03-10, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:

    The mystery evolves:

    $ type z2.bas
    program z2

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z2
    $ link z2
    $ run z2
    XXX
    YYY


    ZZZ

    1 LF => no blank line
    2 LF => two blank lines


    Your basic assumptions may be wrong (or they be right). Run the following command procedure and note where the cursor stops during the 5 second pause.

    $ type arne.com
    $ write sys$output "Line 1"
    $ wait 0:00:05
    $ write sys$output "Line 2"
    $ @arne
    Line 1
    Line 2

    Now turn that into a Basic program. During the 5 second pause, does the
    cursor stop at the beginning of the first line or does it stop on the
    line _below_ the first line ?

    If it's the latter, carry on as I have no useful suggestions.

    If it's the former, rewrite your tests as LF + text + CR, instead of
    text + CR + LF. That makes your testing compatible with the way VMS
    outputs lines of text by default. What I don't know is if VMS Basic
    uses that same model.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Mar 11 13:20:33 2024
    On 11/03/2024 13:13, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2024-03-10, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:

    The mystery evolves:

    $ type z2.bas
    program z2

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z2
    $ link z2
    $ run z2
    XXX
    YYY


    ZZZ

    1 LF => no blank line
    2 LF => two blank lines


    Your basic assumptions may be wrong (or they be right). Run the following command procedure and note where the cursor stops during the 5 second pause.

    $ type arne.com
    $ write sys$output "Line 1"
    $ wait 0:00:05
    $ write sys$output "Line 2"
    $ @arne
    Line 1
    Line 2

    Now turn that into a Basic program. During the 5 second pause, does the cursor stop at the beginning of the first line or does it stop on the
    line _below_ the first line ?

    If it's the latter, carry on as I have no useful suggestions.

    If it's the former, rewrite your tests as LF + text + CR, instead of
    text + CR + LF. That makes your testing compatible with the way VMS
    outputs lines of text by default. What I don't know is if VMS Basic
    uses that same model.

    Simon.


    Surely BASIC has its own formatting. Why manually put in control
    characters to confuse it?

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY"
    print ""
    print "ZZZ"

    will simply give:

    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ

    if that is what you want

    --
    Chris

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Mon Mar 11 09:21:34 2024
    On 3/11/2024 1:28 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 21:04:15 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic example??

    Because two different language implementation teams came to two different decisions about how to map character streams onto VMS’ insistence that files be made out of records.

    I see VMS Basic IO as record oriented and not stream oriented.

    And I was not expecting any "mapping". I was expecting
    PRINT to format an internal buffer with the data provided
    and call SYS$PUT without any attempts to modify the data
    provided.

    The reality is observable different.

    Arne

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Mon Mar 11 13:22:41 2024
    In article <usn0gu$3kkpg$1@dont-email.me>,
    Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 1:28 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 21:04:15 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic example??

    Because two different language implementation teams came to two different
    decisions about how to map character streams onto VMS’ insistence that
    files be made out of records.

    I see VMS Basic IO as record oriented and not stream oriented.

    And I was not expecting any "mapping". I was expecting
    PRINT to format an internal buffer with the data provided
    and call SYS$PUT without any attempts to modify the data
    provided.

    The reality is observable different.

    Please don't feed the troll.

    - Dan C.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Mon Mar 11 09:30:54 2024
    On 3/11/2024 9:20 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
    Surely BASIC has its own formatting. Why manually put in control
    characters to confuse it?

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY"
    print ""
    print "ZZZ"

    will simply give:

    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ

    if that is what you want

    The real context is a CGI script under Apache doing a
    redirect.

    And it seems like for whatever reasons the writes
    (SYS$PUT) does not write CRLF to that whatever type of
    connection back to Apache. So for Pascal I put them in manually
    and it worked great. But for basic I hit a roadblock.

    Arne

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Mon Mar 11 13:41:29 2024
    On 2024-03-11, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 9:20 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
    Surely BASIC has its own formatting. Why manually put in control
    characters to confuse it?

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY"
    print ""
    print "ZZZ"

    will simply give:

    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ

    if that is what you want

    The real context is a CGI script under Apache doing a
    redirect.


    You didn't mention that bit Arne. :-(

    The implication from your posting was that this is an interactive
    session problem. This matters because the terminal driver does a
    lot of output processing on the data it is asked to display.

    Now I know this, try putting your output + CR + LF into a string
    and then output the string only in the print statement.

    This may or may not make a difference depending on what the Basic
    RTL does with the string.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Mar 11 09:44:15 2024
    On 3/11/2024 9:13 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2024-03-10, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    The mystery evolves:

    $ type z2.bas
    program z2

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z2
    $ link z2
    $ run z2
    XXX
    YYY


    ZZZ

    1 LF => no blank line
    2 LF => two blank lines


    Your basic assumptions may be wrong (or they be right). Run the following command procedure and note where the cursor stops during the 5 second pause.

    $ type arne.com
    $ write sys$output "Line 1"
    $ wait 0:00:05
    $ write sys$output "Line 2"
    $ @arne
    Line 1
    Line 2

    Now turn that into a Basic program. During the 5 second pause, does the cursor stop at the beginning of the first line or does it stop on the
    line _below_ the first line ?

    If it's the latter, carry on as I have no useful suggestions.

    If it's the former, rewrite your tests as LF + text + CR, instead of
    text + CR + LF. That makes your testing compatible with the way VMS
    outputs lines of text by default. What I don't know is if VMS Basic
    uses that same model.

    $ type zhack.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13)
    print chr$(10) + "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas zhack
    $ link zhack
    $ run zhack
    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ

    And maybe I can use that as workaround.

    But I would still like to know why a trailing CR LF get
    stripped away.

    I really don't like the idea of RTL stripping any
    of "my data" away.

    Arne

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Mar 11 09:49:54 2024
    On 3/11/2024 9:41 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2024-03-11, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 9:20 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
    Surely BASIC has its own formatting. Why manually put in control
    characters to confuse it?

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY"
    print ""
    print "ZZZ"

    will simply give:

    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ

    if that is what you want

    The real context is a CGI script under Apache doing a
    redirect.

    You didn't mention that bit Arne. :-(

    No because the problem could be recreated using a
    simple standalone console program.

    It is a bit easier for people that may want to test, than
    to get Apache CGI up and running.

    The implication from your posting was that this is an interactive
    session problem. This matters because the terminal driver does a
    lot of output processing on the data it is asked to display.

    Yes, but what about the difference with Pascal?

    Pascal code-->Pascal RTL--|
    |-->SYS$PUT->SYS$QIOW-->terminal driver
    Basic code--->Basic RTL---|

    Now I know this, try putting your output + CR + LF into a string
    and then output the string only in the print statement.

    This may or may not make a difference depending on what the Basic
    RTL does with the string.

    No difference.

    $ type zm.bas
    program zm

    declare string s

    print "XXX"
    s = "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print s
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas zm
    $ link zm
    $ run zm
    XXX
    YYY
    ZZZ

    Arne

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  • From Single Stage to Orbit@21:1/5 to bill on Mon Mar 11 14:35:42 2024
    On Mon, 2024-03-11 at 09:34 -0400, bill wrote:
    I think what he wants is an explanation of why the behavior is
    different than on any other machine.  :-)

    Yes, I tried it with other versions of basic and Pascal and got
    the behavior Arne was looking for.  Sadly, at t he moment I don't
    have a VMS system running to play with it there.

    CGI is Unix and really wants LF+CR but VMS strips away one of these
    characters so it never looks like a LF+CR sequence at the other end.

    All that's needed is for him to output as raw rather than "cooked".
    --
    Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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  • From Craig A. Berry@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 11 13:04:14 2024
    On 3/10/24 8:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    My lack of skills in VMS Basic are back to haunt me.

    $ type z.pas
    program z(input,output);

    begin
       writeln('XXX');
       writeln('YYY' + chr(13) + chr(10));
       writeln('ZZZ');
    end.
    $ pas z
    $ link z
    $ r z
    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ
    $ type z.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z
    $ link z
    $ run z
    XXX
    YYY
    ZZZ

    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic
    example??

    (VMS Basic 1.8 on VMS Alpha)

    I don't know the answer to your question, but the docs mention a lot of
    special behavior in special circumstances, e.g., "When printing to a terminal-format file, VSI BASIC does not write out the record until a
    PRINT statement without trailing punctuation executes." Maybe the CRLF
    are considered trailing punctuation? Or maybe one of the other special
    rules is in effect. PRINT docs start at p. 201 here:

    <https://docs.vmssoftware.com/docs/vsi-basic-for-openvms-reference-manual.pdf>

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Craig A. Berry on Mon Mar 11 15:15:05 2024
    On 3/11/2024 2:04 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
    On 3/10/24 8:04 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    My lack of skills in VMS Basic are back to haunt me.

    $ type z.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z
    $ link z
    $ run z
    XXX
    YYY
    ZZZ

    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic
    example??

    (VMS Basic 1.8 on VMS Alpha)

    I don't know the answer to your question, but the docs mention a lot of special behavior in special circumstances, e.g., "When printing to a terminal-format file, VSI BASIC does not write out the record until a
    PRINT statement without trailing punctuation executes."  Maybe the CRLF
    are considered trailing punctuation? Or maybe one of the other special
    rules is in effect.  PRINT docs start at p. 201 here:

    <https://docs.vmssoftware.com/docs/vsi-basic-for-openvms-reference-manual.pdf>

    I have read it, but I got the impression that it was intended
    for this:

    $ type pw.bas
    program pw

    print "A",
    print "B",
    print "C"

    end program
    $ bas pw
    $ link pw
    $ run pw
    A B C
    $ type pw.pas
    program pw(input,output);

    begin
    write('A');
    write('B');
    writeln('C');
    end.
    $ pas pw
    $ link pw
    $ run pw
    ABC
    $ type pw.for
    program pw
    write(*,'(1x,A,$)') 'A'
    write(*,'(1h+,A,$)') 'B'
    write(*,'(1h+,A)') 'C'
    end
    $ for pw
    $ link pw
    $ run pw
    ABC

    Arne

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Single Stage to Orbit on Mon Mar 11 15:22:27 2024
    On 3/11/2024 10:35 AM, Single Stage to Orbit wrote:
    On Mon, 2024-03-11 at 09:34 -0400, bill wrote:
    I think what he wants is an explanation of why the behavior is
    different than on any other machine.  :-)

    I wanted to know why it was different from Pascal and
    different from "common expectation".

    Yes, I tried it with other versions of basic and Pascal and got
    the behavior Arne was looking for.  Sadly, at t he moment I don't
    have a VMS system running to play with it there.

    CGI is Unix and really wants LF+CR but VMS strips away one of these characters so it never looks like a LF+CR sequence at the other end.

    All that's needed is for him to output as raw rather than "cooked".

    I had one problem with CGI and Apache.

    I solved that problem by sending extra CRLF with Pascal.

    And then I got a new problem because that solution did not work
    with Basic.

    And the Basic problem can be demonstrated with plan terminal
    output.

    If I could solve the original CGI Apache problem in a way that
    did not require extra CRLF then that would make it work for
    both Pascal and Basic.

    But I would still be curious to know why Basic is eating that CRLF.

    For the CGI problem I used Simons suggestion and moved on.

    Instead of:

    print "..." + chr$(13) + chr$(10)
    print ""

    then:

    print "..." + chr$(13)
    print chr$(10) + ""

    Arne

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  • From Dave Froble@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 11 16:57:41 2024
    On 3/11/2024 9:44 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 9:13 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2024-03-10, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    The mystery evolves:

    $ type z2.bas
    program z2

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13) + chr$(10) + chr$(10)
    print "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas z2
    $ link z2
    $ run z2
    XXX
    YYY


    ZZZ

    1 LF => no blank line
    2 LF => two blank lines


    Your basic assumptions may be wrong (or they be right). Run the following
    command procedure and note where the cursor stops during the 5 second pause. >>
    $ type arne.com
    $ write sys$output "Line 1"
    $ wait 0:00:05
    $ write sys$output "Line 2"
    $ @arne
    Line 1
    Line 2

    Now turn that into a Basic program. During the 5 second pause, does the
    cursor stop at the beginning of the first line or does it stop on the
    line _below_ the first line ?

    If it's the latter, carry on as I have no useful suggestions.

    If it's the former, rewrite your tests as LF + text + CR, instead of
    text + CR + LF. That makes your testing compatible with the way VMS
    outputs lines of text by default. What I don't know is if VMS Basic
    uses that same model.

    $ type zhack.bas
    program z

    print "XXX"
    print "YYY" + chr$(13)
    print chr$(10) + "ZZZ"

    end program
    $ bas zhack
    $ link zhack
    $ run zhack
    XXX
    YYY

    ZZZ

    And maybe I can use that as workaround.

    But I would still like to know why a trailing CR LF get
    stripped away.

    I really don't like the idea of RTL stripping any
    of "my data" away.

    Arne


    I'm pretty sure it is the PRINT statement. I'm guessing it thinks it know better than you.

    :-)

    I write that because if you omit both the PRINT and the terminal driver, by printing to a file, you will see the file has exactly what you intended.

    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486

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  • From Dave Froble@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Mon Mar 11 16:59:32 2024
    On 3/11/2024 9:22 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
    In article <usn0gu$3kkpg$1@dont-email.me>,
    Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 1:28 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 21:04:15 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic example??

    Because two different language implementation teams came to two different >>> decisions about how to map character streams onto VMS’ insistence that
    files be made out of records.

    I see VMS Basic IO as record oriented and not stream oriented.

    And I was not expecting any "mapping". I was expecting
    PRINT to format an internal buffer with the data provided
    and call SYS$PUT without any attempts to modify the data
    provided.

    The reality is observable different.

    Please don't feed the troll.

    - Dan C.


    :-)

    Well, this time, I think the troll is correct ...

    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 11 20:40:33 2024
    On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 09:21:34 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    The reality is observable different.

    That’s what I mean.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 12 23:09:59 2024
    On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 09:30:54 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    The real context is a CGI script under Apache doing a redirect.

    Really, using CGI? Particularly on an OS where process creation is
    expensive?

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Tue Mar 12 22:19:42 2024
    On 3/12/2024 7:09 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 09:30:54 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    The real context is a CGI script under Apache doing a redirect.

    Really, using CGI? Particularly on an OS where process creation is
    expensive?

    All stories has a beginning.

    The story about web applications start with CGI.

    Arne

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 13 02:27:12 2024
    On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 22:19:42 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    The story about web applications start with CGI.

    That was last century.

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to davef@tsoft-inc.com on Wed Mar 13 12:35:00 2024
    In article <usnrba$3qr77$2@dont-email.me>,
    Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 9:22 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
    In article <usn0gu$3kkpg$1@dont-email.me>,
    Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 3/11/2024 1:28 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 21:04:15 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    Why are there no empty line between YYY and ZZZ in the Basic example?? >>>>
    Because two different language implementation teams came to two different >>>> decisions about how to map character streams onto VMS’ insistence that
    files be made out of records.

    I see VMS Basic IO as record oriented and not stream oriented.

    And I was not expecting any "mapping". I was expecting
    PRINT to format an internal buffer with the data provided
    and call SYS$PUT without any attempts to modify the data
    provided.

    The reality is observable different.

    Please don't feed the troll.

    - Dan C.


    :-)

    Well, this time, I think the troll is correct ...

    Perhaps he is. Broken clocks, twice a day, etc.
    Regardless, best not to feed him. People like that
    thrive on engagement.

    - Dan C.

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