Hi!

Reading the vsi-openvms-x86-64-v921-installation-guide left me a bit
confused. Maybe someone can enlighten me on the following two issues I am wondering about:

Cluster with shared system disk

Is this possible on VMS X86? The installation manual describes a cluster
setup using a cloned disk for the seconds node. This looks to me as if currently only MSCP served local disks are possible in a VMS X86 cluster.

Terminal connection for installation

A serial port attached to the ESXi host seems to be required for the installation. Is this used only for the installation or will this be the operator console later on? Can VMS X86 run without a serial console? If
the console is attached to an ESXI network port, then running a VMS
machine on a VMware cluster where the VM can be migrated from one ESXi
host to another seems not feasible.

--
Stefan

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Hallo Stefan,

Stefan Möding schrieb am 07.12.2023 um 14:09:

Hi!

Reading the vsi-openvms-x86-64-v921-installation-guide left me a bit confused. Maybe someone can enlighten me on the following two issues I am wondering about:

Cluster with shared system disk

Is this possible on VMS X86? The installation manual describes a cluster setup using a cloned disk for the seconds node. This looks to me as if currently only MSCP served local disks are possible in a VMS X86 cluster.

I'm not sure about the current situation.

My latest informations says, that you can't use a shared SCSI disk as a
system disk when running under VMware. I don't know about the other virtualization products. I think you *can* use a fibre channel disk as a
shared system disk.

Terminal connection for installation

A serial port attached to the ESXi host seems to be required for the installation. Is this used only for the installation or will this be the operator console later on? Can VMS X86 run without a serial console? If
the console is attached to an ESXI network port, then running a VMS
machine on a VMware cluster where the VM can be migrated from one ESXi
host to another seems not feasible.

No, (acess to) a serial port on the ESXi host is not required. You
define a serial port for the VM you want to use for VMS, and connect to
that via a raw TCP/IP port.

Hope this helps,
Hans.

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Hi Hans!

Hans Bachner <hans@bachner.priv.at> writes:

My latest informations says, that you can't use a shared SCSI disk as
a system disk when running under VMware.

That's also what I understand from the installation manual. The
clustering manual is also only referring to Alpha or Itanium.

I think you *can* use a fibre channel disk as a shared system disk.

And this would be on bare metal or also on VMware (using a raw device
instead of a VMDK)?

No, (acess to) a serial port on the ESXi host is not required. You
define a serial port for the VM you want to use for VMS, and connect
to that via a raw TCP/IP port.

I was referring to the TCP/IP port. But this would force the VM to stay
on the same ESXi host. I could live with that if it was only necessary
during installation.

A VMware cluster normally migrates VMs between ESXi hosts to optimize resources. Even restarting the VM on a different ESXi host after hardware failure would be more complicated if the console would have to be
"rewired" on the new host first.

There seems to be a serial port concentrator software for VMware that
allows VM migration. But that's a licenced product from yet another
company.

Thanks!

--
Stefan

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Den 2023-12-09 kl. 10:47, skrev Stefan Möding:

Hi Hans!

Hans Bachner <hans@bachner.priv.at> writes:

My latest informations says, that you can't use a shared SCSI disk as
a system disk when running under VMware.

That's also what I understand from the installation manual. The
clustering manual is also only referring to Alpha or Itanium.

I think you *can* use a fibre channel disk as a shared system disk.

And this would be on bare metal or also on VMware (using a raw device
instead of a VMDK)?

No, (acess to) a serial port on the ESXi host is not required. You
define a serial port for the VM you want to use for VMS, and connect
to that via a raw TCP/IP port.

I was referring to the TCP/IP port. But this would force the VM to stay
on the same ESXi host. I could live with that if it was only necessary during installation.

A VMware cluster normally migrates VMs between ESXi hosts to optimize resources. Even restarting the VM on a different ESXi host after hardware failure would be more complicated if the console would have to be
"rewired" on the new host first.

There seems to be a serial port concentrator software for VMware that
allows VM migration. But that's a licenced product from yet another
company.

Thanks!

But for a configured and running OpenVMS system, there is
really no need for a "consol".

And if properly setup with "auto-boot", it should boot just
fine without a connection to the console IP port.

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On 12/9/2023 4:47 AM, Stefan Möding wrote:

Hi Hans!

Hans Bachner <hans@bachner.priv.at> writes:

My latest informations says, that you can't use a shared SCSI disk as
a system disk when running under VMware.

That's also what I understand from the installation manual. The
clustering manual is also only referring to Alpha or Itanium.

I think you *can* use a fibre channel disk as a shared system disk.

And this would be on bare metal or also on VMware (using a raw device
instead of a VMDK)?

The only supported method to access fibre channel disks is if they
are served via MSCP.

Shared system disks are not supported on X86_64.

We are investigating ESXi's fibre channel passthrough mechanism, which would allow direct access to fibre channel storage. Booting, however, is a bit more complicated, so if we do support this passthrough mechanism, the initial support
would be data-only.

We realize there are ways to get booting through fibre channel passthrough to work, but it takes some effort getting the relevant boot drivers in place.

--

--- Rob

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Hi Robert,

"Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> writes:

Shared system disks are not supported on X86_64.

Thanks for the clarification!

--
Stefan

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On 12/9/2023 9:09 AM, Robert A. Brooks wrote:

On 12/9/2023 4:47 AM, Stefan Möding wrote:

Hans Bachner <hans@bachner.priv.at> writes:

My latest informations says, that you can't use a shared SCSI disk as
a system disk when running under VMware.

That's also what I understand from the installation manual.  The
clustering manual is also only referring to Alpha or Itanium.

I think you *can* use a fibre channel disk as a shared system disk.

And this would be on bare metal or also on VMware (using a raw device
instead of a VMDK)?

The only supported method to access fibre channel disks is if they
are served via MSCP.

Shared system disks are not supported on X86_64.

We are investigating ESXi's fibre channel passthrough mechanism, which
would
allow direct access to fibre channel storage.  Booting, however, is a
bit more
complicated, so if we do support this passthrough mechanism, the initial support
would be data-only.

We realize there are ways to get booting through fibre channel
passthrough to work, but it takes some effort getting the relevant boot drivers in place.

You need some exciting new features to put in version 10.0!

:-) :-) :-)

I suspect the demand for VMS cluster is less now than it
was 30 years ago.

In the old days N MicroVAX was cheaper than a 6000 with N CPU and
N DS series was cheaper than a GS with N CPU. But today
a x86-64 VM with 16 or 32 VCPU is nothing. So no need for clustering
to scale horizontally for existing VMS applications.

Then we have redundancy. But a lot of newer applications does
not require an OS cluster and are fine doing application clustering
over multiple standalone nodes. There are still some applications
build on VMS cluster - Rdb comes to my mind - but having 2 separate
system disks are just a minor annoyance (*).

*) And I have done it. It has always been necessary for mixed
architecture cluster (VAX & Alpha in my case).

Arne

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