• Re: Leaving all Google Groups?

    From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Neil Rieck on Fri Dec 1 11:03:04 2023
    On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
    17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
    started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
    its usefulness.

    comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.

    INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.

    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.

    Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
    reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
    old posts.

    1) I've been flagging at least 200 messages each day as SPAM. I also requested help from Google through the feedback tool (almost every
    day) but did not receive a single response. This makes me wonder if
    they have done a risk/reward analysis then decided to let this
    product die on the vine.

    Everybody is saying that Google Groups is running on auto pilot with
    no human at the steering wheel.

    2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
    non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
    privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
    "comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
    lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
    new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
    the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.

    3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
    Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
    free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
    here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
    people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
    was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
    for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
    of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
    SPAM we see at comp.os.vms

    I am not sure that I see the point.

    Today we have:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w few users w some users w few users

    and:
    * GG users
    * NNTP server admins
    * maillist gateway admin
    has a problem with the spam from GG.

    But I don't see:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w no users w some users w few users

    X @ GG or Reddit
    w few users

    as having any point without a connection.

    Arne

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Robinson@21:1/5 to comp.os.vms to email gateway on Fri Dec 1 11:41:20 2023
    At 11:03 AM 12/1/2023, Arne Vajhøj via Info-vax wrote:
    On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
    17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
    started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
    its usefulness.

    comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.

    INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.

    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.

    I'm currently filtering out all messages with a
    message id that contains "googlegroups" from
    getting to the Info-VAX mailing list. This means
    I might not forward the few legitimate posts, but
    it keeps the SPAM from getting out.

    BTW, I've noticed an up tick in spam messages
    hitting some mailing lists I subscribe to. It
    seems that the spammers are actually subscribing
    and then blast to the list before the list admins can remove/block them.

    Ken Robinson
    Info-VAX List Manager
    kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com
    kenrbnsn@gmail.com



    <html>
    <body>
    <font size=3>At 11:03 AM 12/1/2023, Arne Vajhøj via Info-vax wrote:<br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:<br>
    <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I joined
    <a href="https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms" eudora="autourl"> https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms</a> back in 2006 so<br>
    17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that<br>
    started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived<br>
    its usefulness.</blockquote><br>
    comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.<br><br>
    INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.<br><br>
    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.<br>
    </font></blockquote><br>
    I'm currently filtering out all messages with a message id that contains &quot;googlegroups&quot; from getting to the Info-VAX mailing list. This
    means I might not forward the few legitimate posts, but it keeps the SPAM
    from getting out.<br><br>
    BTW, I've noticed an up tick in spam messages hitting some mailing lists
    I subscribe to. It seems that the spammers are actually subscribing and
    then blast to the list before the list admins can remove/block
    them.<br><br>
    Ken Robinson<br>
    Info-VAX List Manager<br>
    kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com<br>
    kenrbnsn@gmail.com<br><br>

    </body>
    </html>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Neil Rieck on Fri Dec 1 12:38:24 2023
    On 12/1/2023 12:10 PM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 11:03:10 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
    non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
    privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
    "comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
    lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
    new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
    the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use
    https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.

    3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
    Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
    free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
    here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
    people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
    was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
    for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
    of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
    SPAM we see at comp.os.vms
    I am not sure that I see the point.

    Today we have:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w few users w some users w few users

    and:
    * GG users
    * NNTP server admins
    * maillist gateway admin
    has a problem with the spam from GG.

    But I don't see:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w no users w some users w few users

    X @ GG or Reddit
    w few users

    as having any point without a connection.


    With all due respect, NNTP technology was developed BEFORE anyone
    ever thought that there may be a billion people in India acting as
    SPAM bots. (apparently the original spammers thought that "VMS" meant "Vitamin + Mineral Supplements". I would have guessed that "VM" meant
    "Vedic Medicine" )

    I fear that the only way the NNTP could ever survive is to employ a
    modern A.I. to act as a content filter (but we are already seeing
    A.I. being used to generate some really good fake news).

    Those actually using NNTP does not have a problem.

    Many NNTP servers has implemented 98% effective spam filters.

    Those using a NNTP server not having done so can just configure
    their NNTP client to delete all messages originating from Google Groups
    (and maybe not match a white list).

    It is those accessing GG via HTTP(S) that has a problem. It has
    become useless.

    And the SPAM is send in to GG via HTTP(S).

    So not a NNTP problem.

    The reason why I chose reddit is this: over the years I have been
    able to solve numerous problems by getting into near instantaneous
    touch with subject matter experts. For example, when my employer
    tasked me with a Rocky Linux install, after I ran into problems I
    posted some questions on reddit, I received a response from the guy
    who packaged the module in question. Likewise, when my employer
    tasked me with some work involving ELevate-leapp, people from
    AlmaLinux answered me within a couple of hours.

    People needing direct answers for OpenVMS issues should visit here: https://forum.vmssoftware.com/ But people wanting to have an informal discussion about OpenVMS might wish to consider this: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/
    If people like Reddit then by all means use it.

    But don't expect the maybe 90% of comp.os.vms users not
    having a spam problem because they use a NNTP client
    accessing a NNTP server to follow.

    Arne

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Neil Rieck on Fri Dec 1 19:46:44 2023
    On 12/1/2023 3:08 PM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 12:38:30 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    On 12/1/2023 12:10 PM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    The reason why I chose reddit is this: over the years I have been
    able to solve numerous problems by getting into near instantaneous
    touch with subject matter experts. For example, when my employer
    tasked me with a Rocky Linux install, after I ran into problems I
    posted some questions on reddit, I received a response from the guy
    who packaged the module in question. Likewise, when my employer
    tasked me with some work involving ELevate-leapp, people from
    AlmaLinux answered me within a couple of hours.

    People needing direct answers for OpenVMS issues should visit here:
    https://forum.vmssoftware.com/ But people wanting to have an informal
    discussion about OpenVMS might wish to consider this:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/
    If people like Reddit then by all means use it.

    But don't expect the maybe 90% of comp.os.vms users not
    having a spam problem because they use a NNTP client
    accessing a NNTP server to follow.

    I hope you are correct but I suspect your number may to be too high.
    When one of my colleagues retired in 2016, his replacement (who was
    only 20 years younger than my colleague) did not seem to share our
    ancient background. This hardworking new guy only seemed to be
    familiar with stuff he was exposed to in his previous job supporting
    Windows Server Edition platforms. For example, he knew about SSH but
    not telnet (so was surprised when I showed him how to use telnet to
    debug a web server). I'm shooting from the hip here, but would bet a
    week's pay that he has never heard of NNTP or newsreaders. This
    problem will only get worse as we retire and/or die.
    c.o.v/NNTP or c.o.v./GG or I-V/mail is observable for posters
    and it is most, very few and very few.

    It is possible that the distribution for those only reading
    never posting is different.

    Many things will change in the next 20 years. Usenet may very
    well die. We will see.

    Arne

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Sat Dec 2 01:29:40 2023
    =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
    17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
    started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
    its usefulness.

    comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.

    Depends on your server, but now that the nocem folks have things tuned
    pretty well, I am seeing very little spam here. There are still a few
    groups like comp.protocols.time.ntp that aren't dialed in completely yet,
    but it's far better than it was last week.

    INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.

    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.

    Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
    reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
    old posts.

    Agreed.

    3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
    Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
    free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
    here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
    people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
    was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
    for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
    of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
    SPAM we see at comp.os.vms

    I am not sure that I see the point.

    I think that the person posting that was a Google Groups user who thinks
    that the mess is as bad from typical Usenet sites as it is at Google
    Groups. Google Groups is a terrible way to read comp.os.vms and has been
    since Google Groups was created.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Mon Dec 4 13:45:59 2023
    On 2023-12-01, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
    17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
    started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
    its usefulness.

    comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.


    Yes. Neil seems to keep confusing NNTP servers and the Usenet ecosystem
    with the Google interface he is clearly using.

    INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.

    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.

    Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
    reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
    old posts.


    I wonder if using a site: filter for https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/
    in your search engine along with what you are looking for would help ? Presumably the spam would be ignored during a search because it would
    not contain any of the keywords you are looking for.

    1) I've been flagging at least 200 messages each day as SPAM. I also
    requested help from Google through the feedback tool (almost every
    day) but did not receive a single response. This makes me wonder if
    they have done a risk/reward analysis then decided to let this
    product die on the vine.

    Everybody is saying that Google Groups is running on auto pilot with
    no human at the steering wheel.

    2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
    non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
    privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
    "comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
    lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
    new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
    the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use
    https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.

    NO BLOODY WAY!!!!

    This is _entirely_ the wrong approach and would mean everyone would
    have to register with Google and use the Google web interface for posting
    as messages posted there would not show up in NNTP newsfeeds.

    NO BLOODY WAY!!!!

    This BTW is an excellent example of people who use the Google interface
    to Usenet confusing it with how Usenet itself works.


    3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
    Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
    free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
    here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
    people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
    was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
    for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
    of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
    SPAM we see at comp.os.vms


    NO BLOODY WAY!!!!

    Once again, no NNTP interface and prone to being permanently banned by
    some immature power-hungry control freak just because you didn't use the currently acceptable phrases this month or some similar nonsense excuse.

    Sod that!!!

    I am not sure that I see the point.

    Today we have:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w few users w some users w few users

    and:
    * GG users
    * NNTP server admins
    * maillist gateway admin
    has a problem with the spam from GG.

    But I don't see:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w no users w some users w few users

    X @ GG or Reddit
    w few users

    as having any point without a connection.

    Arne


    NNTP is the correct approach. We just need to have Google's interface
    to it to be permanently dropped.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=C3=B6derholm?=@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 4 17:37:35 2023
    Den 2023-12-04 kl. 14:45, skrev Simon Clubley:
    On 2023-12-01, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
    I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
    17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
    started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
    its usefulness.

    comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.


    Yes. Neil seems to keep confusing NNTP servers and the Usenet ecosystem
    with the Google interface he is clearly using.

    INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.

    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.

    Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
    reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
    old posts.


    I wonder if using a site: filter for https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/
    in your search engine along with what you are looking for would help ? Presumably the spam would be ignored during a search because it would
    not contain any of the keywords you are looking for.

    1) I've been flagging at least 200 messages each day as SPAM. I also
    requested help from Google through the feedback tool (almost every
    day) but did not receive a single response. This makes me wonder if
    they have done a risk/reward analysis then decided to let this
    product die on the vine.

    Everybody is saying that Google Groups is running on auto pilot with
    no human at the steering wheel.

    2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
    non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
    privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
    "comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
    lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
    new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
    the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use
    https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.

    NO BLOODY WAY!!!!

    This is _entirely_ the wrong approach and would mean everyone would
    have to register with Google and use the Google web interface for posting
    as messages posted there would not show up in NNTP newsfeeds.

    NO BLOODY WAY!!!!

    This BTW is an excellent example of people who use the Google interface
    to Usenet confusing it with how Usenet itself works.


    3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
    Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
    free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
    here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
    people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
    was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
    for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
    of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
    SPAM we see at comp.os.vms


    NO BLOODY WAY!!!!

    Once again, no NNTP interface and prone to being permanently banned by
    some immature power-hungry control freak just because you didn't use the currently acceptable phrases this month or some similar nonsense excuse.

    Sod that!!!

    I am not sure that I see the point.

    Today we have:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w few users w some users w few users

    and:
    * GG users
    * NNTP server admins
    * maillist gateway admin
    has a problem with the spam from GG.

    But I don't see:

    c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
    w no users w some users w few users

    X @ GG or Reddit
    w few users

    as having any point without a connection.

    Arne


    NNTP is the correct approach. We just need to have Google's interface
    to it to be permanently dropped.

    Simon.


    Or move any VMS related discussions to the VSI Forum.
    And ditch NNTP and Usenet alltogether.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com on Mon Dec 4 20:59:43 2023
    =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=C3=B6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:

    Or move any VMS related discussions to the VSI Forum.
    And ditch NNTP and Usenet alltogether.

    NNTP and Usenet are just fine. The only problem is Google. I see no reason not to just drop all traffic from Google and be done with it.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Tue Dec 5 00:56:00 2023
    =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:

    But that site says "First post 20 years ago", which means
    that it must be missing a lot.

    A comprehensive attempt was made to drag early records from pre-Renaming
    usenet when dejanews first started. The folks from talk.bizarre contributed nearly a gigabyte of old postings, mostly retrieved from Henry Spencers'
    backup tapes, but some of which came from personal archives.

    When dejanews was bought out by Google that stuff was retained... but
    within a few years Google broke all the indices so if you didn't know
    the message-ID it was often difficult to find a post. Then they took
    down the advanced search which made it pretty much impossible to find
    anything. But I think the posts are in there, you just can't get to them.

    Unfortunately they are likely the -only- place with the earliest of
    Usenet records.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Dec 4 19:23:52 2023
    On 12/4/2023 8:45 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-01, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.

    Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
    reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
    old posts.


    I wonder if using a site: filter for https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/
    in your search engine along with what you are looking for would help ? Presumably the spam would be ignored during a search because it would
    not contain any of the keywords you are looking for.

    I suspect that would work.

    But that site says "First post 20 years ago", which means
    that it must be missing a lot.

    Arne

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Henry Crun@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Tue Dec 5 08:54:33 2023
    On 04/12/2023 22:59, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=C3=B6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:

    Or move any VMS related discussions to the VSI Forum.
    And ditch NNTP and Usenet alltogether.

    NNTP and Usenet are just fine. The only problem is Google. I see no reason not to just drop all traffic from Google and be done with it.
    --scott

    +1

    --
    --
    No Micro$oft products were used in the URLs above, or in preparing this message.
    Recommended reading:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#befor

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Neil Rieck on Fri Dec 15 13:09:22 2023
    On 2023-12-15, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:

    FYI, not sure if this is the correct decision by google, but this blurb started to appear at the top of the comp.os.vms page on Dec-14, 2023.


    Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, it is the
    correct decision.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael S@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Fri Dec 15 16:16:21 2023
    On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
    Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:

    On 2023-12-15, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:

    FYI, not sure if this is the correct decision by google, but this
    blurb started to appear at the top of the comp.os.vms page on
    Dec-14, 2023.

    Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, it is
    the correct decision.

    Simon.


    I am not sure about it.
    Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, the
    preferable decision, IMHO, would be for Google to do to all Usenet
    groups what they already did few weeks ago to majority of groups that I
    follow (comp.arch, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++) i.e. to disable posting
    through GG interface, but keep receiving feeds fro select peers.

    At least that sounds as a preferred solution at the moment.

    Only if (when) spammers start to use traditional NNTP channels and
    assuming that their main movation is to be seen on GG, complete
    disconnect would become preferable.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Michael S on Fri Dec 15 10:16:44 2023
    On 12/15/2023 9:16 AM, Michael S wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
    Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
    On 2023-12-15, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:
    FYI, not sure if this is the correct decision by google, but this
    blurb started to appear at the top of the comp.os.vms page on
    Dec-14, 2023.

    Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, it is
    the correct decision.

    I am not sure about it.
    Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, the
    preferable decision, IMHO, would be for Google to do to all Usenet
    groups what they already did few weeks ago to majority of groups that I follow (comp.arch, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++) i.e. to disable posting through GG interface, but keep receiving feeds fro select peers.

    At least that sounds as a preferred solution at the moment.

    They could even have allowed posting via GG if they required
    a verified account (GMail address + alternate email address +
    cell phone number) to post and deleted accounts violating ToS.

    But they probably wanted a solution with a cost of zero.

    Only if (when) spammers start to use traditional NNTP channels and
    assuming that their main movation is to be seen on GG, complete
    disconnect would become preferable.

    I don't understand the spammers motivation at all.

    Arne

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)