I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
its usefulness.
1) I've been flagging at least 200 messages each day as SPAM. I also requested help from Google through the feedback tool (almost every
day) but did not receive a single response. This makes me wonder if
they have done a risk/reward analysis then decided to let this
product die on the vine.
2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
"comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.
3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
SPAM we see at comp.os.vms
On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
its usefulness.
comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.
INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.
comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.
On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 11:03:10 AM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where aI am not sure that I see the point.
non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
"comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use
https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.
3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
SPAM we see at comp.os.vms
Today we have:
c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
w few users w some users w few users
and:
* GG users
* NNTP server admins
* maillist gateway admin
has a problem with the spam from GG.
But I don't see:
c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
w no users w some users w few users
X @ GG or Reddit
w few users
as having any point without a connection.
With all due respect, NNTP technology was developed BEFORE anyone
ever thought that there may be a billion people in India acting as
SPAM bots. (apparently the original spammers thought that "VMS" meant "Vitamin + Mineral Supplements". I would have guessed that "VM" meant
"Vedic Medicine" )
I fear that the only way the NNTP could ever survive is to employ a
modern A.I. to act as a content filter (but we are already seeing
A.I. being used to generate some really good fake news).
The reason why I chose reddit is this: over the years I have beenIf people like Reddit then by all means use it.
able to solve numerous problems by getting into near instantaneous
touch with subject matter experts. For example, when my employer
tasked me with a Rocky Linux install, after I ran into problems I
posted some questions on reddit, I received a response from the guy
who packaged the module in question. Likewise, when my employer
tasked me with some work involving ELevate-leapp, people from
AlmaLinux answered me within a couple of hours.
People needing direct answers for OpenVMS issues should visit here: https://forum.vmssoftware.com/ But people wanting to have an informal discussion about OpenVMS might wish to consider this: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/
On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 12:38:30 PM UTC-5, Arne Vajhøj wrote:c.o.v/NNTP or c.o.v./GG or I-V/mail is observable for posters
On 12/1/2023 12:10 PM, Neil Rieck wrote:
The reason why I chose reddit is this: over the years I have beenIf people like Reddit then by all means use it.
able to solve numerous problems by getting into near instantaneous
touch with subject matter experts. For example, when my employer
tasked me with a Rocky Linux install, after I ran into problems I
posted some questions on reddit, I received a response from the guy
who packaged the module in question. Likewise, when my employer
tasked me with some work involving ELevate-leapp, people from
AlmaLinux answered me within a couple of hours.
People needing direct answers for OpenVMS issues should visit here:
https://forum.vmssoftware.com/ But people wanting to have an informal
discussion about OpenVMS might wish to consider this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/
But don't expect the maybe 90% of comp.os.vms users not
having a spam problem because they use a NNTP client
accessing a NNTP server to follow.
I hope you are correct but I suspect your number may to be too high.
When one of my colleagues retired in 2016, his replacement (who was
only 20 years younger than my colleague) did not seem to share our
ancient background. This hardworking new guy only seemed to be
familiar with stuff he was exposed to in his previous job supporting
Windows Server Edition platforms. For example, he knew about SSH but
not telnet (so was surprised when I showed him how to use telnet to
debug a web server). I'm shooting from the hip here, but would bet a
week's pay that he has never heard of NNTP or newsreaders. This
problem will only get worse as we retire and/or die.
On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
its usefulness.
comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.
INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.
comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.
Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
old posts.
3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
SPAM we see at comp.os.vms
I am not sure that I see the point.
On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
its usefulness.
comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.
INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.
comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.
Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
old posts.
1) I've been flagging at least 200 messages each day as SPAM. I also
requested help from Google through the feedback tool (almost every
day) but did not receive a single response. This makes me wonder if
they have done a risk/reward analysis then decided to let this
product die on the vine.
Everybody is saying that Google Groups is running on auto pilot with
no human at the steering wheel.
2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
"comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use
https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.
3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
SPAM we see at comp.os.vms
I am not sure that I see the point.
Today we have:
c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
w few users w some users w few users
and:
* GG users
* NNTP server admins
* maillist gateway admin
has a problem with the spam from GG.
But I don't see:
c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
w no users w some users w few users
X @ GG or Reddit
w few users
as having any point without a connection.
Arne
On 2023-12-01, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
On 12/1/2023 6:38 AM, Neil Rieck wrote:
I joined https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.vms back in 2006 so
17-years is a pretty good run. But the ongoing SPAM attack that
started Oct-1 tells me that this NNTP newsgroup thing has outlived
its usefulness.
comp.os.vms usenet group on NNTP servers seems fine.
Yes. Neil seems to keep confusing NNTP servers and the Usenet ecosystem
with the Google interface he is clearly using.
INFO-VAX mail-list is probably going to be fine.
comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.
Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
old posts.
I wonder if using a site: filter for https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/
in your search engine along with what you are looking for would help ? Presumably the spam would be ignored during a search because it would
not contain any of the keywords you are looking for.
1) I've been flagging at least 200 messages each day as SPAM. I also
requested help from Google through the feedback tool (almost every
day) but did not receive a single response. This makes me wonder if
they have done a risk/reward analysis then decided to let this
product die on the vine.
Everybody is saying that Google Groups is running on auto pilot with
no human at the steering wheel.
2) I lodged a complaint via https://support.google.com/ where a
non-Google employee suggested I create a new group with the requisite
privacy settings. I did that then attempted to create
"comp.os.openvms" but it came up as "composopenvms". Perhaps the
lack of dots helps to distinguish the old flavor newsgroup from the
new. This makes me wonder if messages post here are being seen my
the traditional news readers. Anyway, you are free to use
https://groups.google.com/g/composopenvms if you wish.
NO BLOODY WAY!!!!
This is _entirely_ the wrong approach and would mean everyone would
have to register with Google and use the Google web interface for posting
as messages posted there would not show up in NNTP newsfeeds.
NO BLOODY WAY!!!!
This BTW is an excellent example of people who use the Google interface
to Usenet confusing it with how Usenet itself works.
3) As an alternative, I suggest we all unsubscribe from all Google
Groups then continue our conversations on reddit where we will be
free to continue our conversation under the OpenVMS sub-reddit. Click
here to see what I mean: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenVMS/ Some
people might not know that reddit (the first social media company?)
was created in 2005 with the intent of dealing with SPAM. In return
for free use, the odd reddit message might contain a advert from one
of their corporate adverts, but this is nothing like navigating the
SPAM we see at comp.os.vms
NO BLOODY WAY!!!!
Once again, no NNTP interface and prone to being permanently banned by
some immature power-hungry control freak just because you didn't use the currently acceptable phrases this month or some similar nonsense excuse.
Sod that!!!
I am not sure that I see the point.
Today we have:
c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
w few users w some users w few users
and:
* GG users
* NNTP server admins
* maillist gateway admin
has a problem with the spam from GG.
But I don't see:
c.o.v @ GG --- c.o.v @ few NNTP servers --- I-V maillist
w no users w some users w few users
X @ GG or Reddit
w few users
as having any point without a connection.
Arne
NNTP is the correct approach. We just need to have Google's interface
to it to be permanently dropped.
Simon.
Or move any VMS related discussions to the VSI Forum.
And ditch NNTP and Usenet alltogether.
But that site says "First post 20 years ago", which means
that it must be missing a lot.
On 2023-12-01, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
comp.os.vms Google Groups group may be toast.
Which is bad as some people use Google Groups for
reading and posting - and many people use it for searching
old posts.
I wonder if using a site: filter for https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/
in your search engine along with what you are looking for would help ? Presumably the spam would be ignored during a search because it would
not contain any of the keywords you are looking for.
=?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=C3=B6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote:
Or move any VMS related discussions to the VSI Forum.
And ditch NNTP and Usenet alltogether.
NNTP and Usenet are just fine. The only problem is Google. I see no reason not to just drop all traffic from Google and be done with it.
--scott
FYI, not sure if this is the correct decision by google, but this blurb started to appear at the top of the comp.os.vms page on Dec-14, 2023.
On 2023-12-15, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:
FYI, not sure if this is the correct decision by google, but this
blurb started to appear at the top of the comp.os.vms page on
Dec-14, 2023.
Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, it is
the correct decision.
Simon.
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:09:22 -0000 (UTC)
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
On 2023-12-15, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@bell.net> wrote:
FYI, not sure if this is the correct decision by google, but this
blurb started to appear at the top of the comp.os.vms page on
Dec-14, 2023.
Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, it is
the correct decision.
I am not sure about it.
Given the surprising inability of Google to control the spam, the
preferable decision, IMHO, would be for Google to do to all Usenet
groups what they already did few weeks ago to majority of groups that I follow (comp.arch, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.c++) i.e. to disable posting through GG interface, but keep receiving feeds fro select peers.
At least that sounds as a preferred solution at the moment.
Only if (when) spammers start to use traditional NNTP channels and
assuming that their main movation is to be seen on GG, complete
disconnect would become preferable.
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