• This is for the folks who get comp.os.vms via the Info-VAX mailing list

    From Ken Robinson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 28 15:12:12 2023
    Everyone else can ignore this post...

    I've put in a filter to kill any posts that come from Google groups,
    but I'm not sure if it's filtering out legitimate posts. I haven't
    seen a non-spam post since I put the filter in place.

    Ken Robinson
    Info-VAX list manager
    kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com
    kenrbnsn@gmail.com

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  • From bill@21:1/5 to Ken Robinson on Tue Nov 28 20:13:45 2023
    On 11/28/2023 3:12 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:
    Everyone else can ignore this post...

    I've put in a filter to kill any posts that come from Google groups, but
    I'm not sure if it's filtering out legitimate posts. I haven't seen a non-spam post since I put the filter in place.


    Looks like my news server is doing that now and it is resulting in
    legitimate posts being dropped. Considering how many free public
    and very inexpensive news servers are available I hope anyone
    expecting to actually use USENET leaves google groups.

    bill

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to craigberry@nospam.mac.com on Wed Dec 6 11:33:29 2023
    On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 06:37:33 -0600, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> wrote:


    On 11/29/23 1:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    bill wrote:

    Ken Robinson wrote:

    I've put in a filter to kill any posts that come from Google groups

    Looks like my news server is doing that now and it is resulting in
    legitimate posts being dropped.

    Yes, considering VMS people to be technically competent, a surprising
    number of them use google groups :-(

    Considering how many free public
    and very inexpensive news servers are available I hope anyone
    expecting to actually use USENET leaves google groups.

    +1

    As has been said many times (whenever this suggestion comes up), not
    everyone has NNTP access. Corporate firewalls mostly block it, for one >thing.

    Everyone can have direct, unmediated (by corporate, or institutional
    networks) NNTP access, if they have the will, and inclination, to do
    so:

    1. Private Internet access by whatever means (home internet, or
    hotspot off their mobile phone internet)

    2. A NNTP block account from a Usenet Newsgroup service provider -
    fixed once off fee, lasts essentially forever if you are only
    participating in text groups and not downloading binaries.

    - or -

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    Anyone claiming they can only access via google groups merely wants
    the convenience of participating with comp.os.vms during their working
    hours.

    Of course, I am happy to stand corrected (I've had a lot of practice, historically) if someone presents a compelling technical scenario
    where someone's only possible recourse to comp.os.vms is via google
    groups. :-)

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  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Subcommandante XDelta on Wed Dec 6 11:01:52 2023
    On 06/12/2023 00:33, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
    On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 06:37:33 -0600, "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> wrote:


    On 11/29/23 1:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    bill wrote:

    Ken Robinson wrote:

    I've put in a filter to kill any posts that come from Google groups

    Looks like my news server is doing that now and it is resulting in
    legitimate posts being dropped.

    Yes, considering VMS people to be technically competent, a surprising
    number of them use google groups :-(

    Considering how many free public
    and very inexpensive news servers are available I hope anyone
    expecting to actually use USENET leaves google groups.

    +1

    As has been said many times (whenever this suggestion comes up), not
    everyone has NNTP access. Corporate firewalls mostly block it, for one
    thing.

    Everyone can have direct, unmediated (by corporate, or institutional networks) NNTP access, if they have the will, and inclination, to do
    so:

    1. Private Internet access by whatever means (home internet, or
    hotspot off their mobile phone internet)

    2. A NNTP block account from a Usenet Newsgroup service provider -
    fixed once off fee, lasts essentially forever if you are only
    participating in text groups and not downloading binaries.

    - or -

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    Anyone claiming they can only access via google groups merely wants
    the convenience of participating with comp.os.vms during their working
    hours.

    Of course, I am happy to stand corrected (I've had a lot of practice, historically) if someone presents a compelling technical scenario
    where someone's only possible recourse to comp.os.vms is via google
    groups. :-)

    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    In fact many have a PC but don't use it on a regular basis. My wife is
    like that. She uses an iPad for 99% of her work. She does have access to
    a PC but tends to only use it for serious work, and its in a room we
    don't often use.

    I have searched high and low and have yet to find a decent news reader
    for Android or IOS as I too would like to ditch my Laptop, which is
    heavy and has short battery life, for a 12" Android Tablet...

    ... you might say "we don't want those sorts on usenet" but if thats the
    case then USENET is pretty much doomed.

    Dave

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  • From Michael Kraemer@21:1/5 to David Wade on Wed Dec 6 12:31:20 2023
    On 06.12.2023 12:01, David Wade wrote:


    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    Then why do they care about VMS?

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to g4ugm@dave.invalid on Wed Dec 6 14:00:00 2023
    David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    I cannot imagine trying to use Google Groups from such a horrible interface either.

    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem to be relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a VMS machine or they would not be on here.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From John Reagan@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Wed Dec 6 09:26:53 2023
    On 12/6/2023 9:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    I cannot imagine trying to use Google Groups from such a horrible interface either.

    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem to be relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a VMS machine or they would not be on here.
    --scott

    I use(d) Google Groups. Not because I'm lazy, not because I don't know
    better, not because I'm a Google fan-guy. It was easy to point a
    browser to it on my phone and skim the discussions. I was unable to
    reply from my phone, but it prompted me to walk to my computer and
    contribute to the group.

    With the Thai spam flood, I have switched to i2pn2.org and Thunderbird.
    Yeah, I know I've triggered the keyboard jackals to start complaining
    now about Thunderbird and that interface. Whatever.

    I read the VSI forums more than I read here so if you want to get my
    attention, post over there.

    John

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  • From Fred. Zwarts@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 6 14:56:53 2023
    Op 06.dec.2023 om 12:01 schreef David Wade:
    On 06/12/2023 00:33, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
    On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 06:37:33 -0600, "Craig A. Berry"
    <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> wrote:


    On 11/29/23 1:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    bill wrote:

    Ken Robinson wrote:

    I've put in a filter to kill any posts that come from Google groups >>>>>
    Looks like my news server is doing that now and it is resulting in
    legitimate posts being dropped.

    Yes, considering VMS people to be technically competent, a surprising
    number of them use google groups :-(

    Considering how many free public
    and very inexpensive news servers are available I hope anyone
    expecting to actually use USENET leaves google groups.

    +1

    As has been said many times (whenever this suggestion comes up), not
    everyone has NNTP access.  Corporate firewalls mostly block it, for one >>> thing.

    Everyone can have direct, unmediated (by corporate, or institutional
    networks) NNTP access, if they have the will, and inclination, to do
    so:

    1. Private Internet access by whatever means (home internet, or
    hotspot off their mobile phone internet)

    2. A NNTP block account from a Usenet Newsgroup service provider -
    fixed once off fee, lasts essentially forever if you are only
    participating in text groups and not downloading binaries.

    - or -

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    Anyone claiming they can only access via google groups merely wants
    the convenience of participating with comp.os.vms during their working
    hours.

    Of course, I am happy to stand corrected (I've had a lot of practice,
    historically) if someone presents a compelling technical scenario
    where someone's only possible recourse to comp.os.vms is via google
    groups. :-)

    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    In fact many have a PC but don't use it on a regular basis. My wife is
    like that. She uses an iPad for 99% of her work. She does have access to
    a PC but tends to only use it for serious work, and its in a room we
    don't often use.

    I have searched high and low and have yet to find a decent news reader
    for Android or IOS as I too would like to ditch my Laptop, which is
    heavy and has short battery life, for a 12" Android Tablet...

    ... you might say "we don't want those sorts on usenet" but if thats the
    case then USENET is pretty much doomed.

    There is a discussion here: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/WUX6T9ADy60
    Experiences seem to vary. I have no experience. Maybe if Thunderbird for Android comes out that I will give it a try.

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  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to John Reagan on Wed Dec 6 15:09:55 2023
    On 06/12/2023 14:26, John Reagan wrote:
    On 12/6/2023 9:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    David Wade  <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis >>> a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    I cannot imagine trying to use Google Groups from such a horrible
    interface
    either.

    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem
    to be
    relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a
    VMS
    machine or they would not be on here.
    --scott

    I use(d) Google Groups.  Not because I'm lazy, not because I don't know better, not because I'm a Google fan-guy.  It was easy to point a
    browser to it on my phone and skim the discussions.  I was unable to
    reply from my phone, but it prompted me to walk to my computer and
    contribute to the group.

    With the Thai spam flood, I have switched to i2pn2.org and Thunderbird.
    Yeah, I know I've triggered the keyboard jackals to start complaining
    now about Thunderbird and that interface. Whatever.

    I read the VSI forums more than I read here so if you want to get my attention, post over there.

    John

    There are a few usenet readers on Google Play store. I haven't tried
    them, as I am normally on a PC or a laptop. I just searched for "news
    group reader app"

    --
    Chris

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to David Wade on Wed Dec 6 10:14:52 2023
    On 12/6/23 05:01, David Wade wrote:
    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    I think you bring up a valid concern.

    But I think it's at least two combined problems, 1) poor client
    experience and 2) old Usenet mode of operation. Sadly both #1 and #2
    compound each other quite a bit.

    ... you might say "we don't want those sorts on usenet" but if thats the
    case then USENET is pretty much doomed.

    :-/



    --
    Grant. . . .

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Wed Dec 6 10:18:05 2023
    On 12/6/23 08:00, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem to be relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a VMS machine or they would not be on here.

    I don't have easy access to a VMS machine (anywhere). I could spin spin
    up an emulator or I could try contemporary OpenVMS from VSI in a VM.

    But I believe it's possible to participate in the community, learn
    about, and enjoy VMS without access to a VMS machine. -- That being
    said, it's yet another way that I'm in the minority.

    I think that most in the comp.os.vms newsgroup could relatively easily
    have access to a VMS system if they wanted to.



    --
    Grant. . . .

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  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Wed Dec 6 19:23:04 2023
    On 06/12/2023 14:00, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have
    access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    I cannot imagine trying to use Google Groups from such a horrible interface either.

    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem to be relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a VMS machine or they would not be on here.

    I have several Vaxen, but they are not the machines I use every day, and
    they are not connected to the internet. Given the environments in which
    VAX and Alpha boxes are used, I would expect there to be many in
    environs where they may not be connected to the internet, and where the
    end user environment on the desktop pc's is tightly controlled...

    --scott


    Dave

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  • From Dave Froble@21:1/5 to David Wade on Wed Dec 6 14:44:33 2023
    On 12/6/2023 6:01 AM, David Wade wrote:

    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular basis a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have access to a
    locked down real computer for work, and I think there are more of those these days.

    In fact many have a PC but don't use it on a regular basis. My wife is like that. She uses an iPad for 99% of her work. She does have access to a PC but tends to only use it for serious work, and its in a room we don't often use.

    I have searched high and low and have yet to find a decent news reader for Android or IOS as I too would like to ditch my Laptop, which is heavy and has short battery life, for a 12" Android Tablet...

    ... you might say "we don't want those sorts on usenet" but if thats the case then USENET is pretty much doomed.

    Dave

    To each whatever they feel comfortable with ...

    I have an Android phone. I don't like it. But a phone is rather necessary.

    I also have a 10 inch Android tablet. I like what it can do, when it does it. What I don't like is that I'm never sure what it's doing, and I don't have a clue on how to figure out what it is doing. It's main job right now is reading Kindle books.

    Over all I don't like Android. Nor do I know much about it, so perhaps some fault is mine.

    I do have multiple WEENDOZE PCs, VAXs, Alphas, even an itanic. They all seem much more understandable to me. YMMV. E-mail, c.o.v, and such ahppen on the WEENDOZE XP PC.

    I feel that Android could be a lot better, but, that just may be me, not everyone. My next Kindle reader will most likely be a WEENDOZE notebook.

    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486

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  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Wed Dec 6 19:18:53 2023
    On 06/12/2023 15:09, Chris Townley wrote:
    On 06/12/2023 14:26, John Reagan wrote:
    On 12/6/2023 9:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    David Wade  <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
    Its hard for any one who does not own, or perhaps use on a regular
    basis
    a "real" computer of their own, so only own a Tablet or Phone but have >>>> access to a locked down real computer for work, and I think there are
    more of those these days.

    I cannot imagine trying to use Google Groups from such a horrible
    interface
    either.

    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not
    seem to be
    relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least
    a VMS
    machine or they would not be on here.
    --scott

    I use(d) Google Groups.  Not because I'm lazy, not because I don't
    know better, not because I'm a Google fan-guy.  It was easy to point a
    browser to it on my phone and skim the discussions.  I was unable to
    reply from my phone, but it prompted me to walk to my computer and
    contribute to the group.

    With the Thai spam flood, I have switched to i2pn2.org and
    Thunderbird. Yeah, I know I've triggered the keyboard jackals to start
    complaining now about Thunderbird and that interface. Whatever.

    I read the VSI forums more than I read here so if you want to get my
    attention, post over there.

    John

    There are a few usenet readers on Google Play store. I haven't tried
    them, as I am normally on a PC or a laptop. I just searched for "news
    group reader app"

    I think the search results do not reflect reality.
    I think the thread at :-

    https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/WUX6T9ADy60

    which says :-

    -It's too easy to test freeware newsgroup readers on Android because
    -there are no good ones, and the bad ones fail in seconds.
    -
    -a. Groundhog fails every single time, because it crashes on me.
    -b. News Commander fails instantly because it turns out not to be
    - freeware.
    -c. PhoNews takes slightly longer to fail, because the freeware can't
    - post.
    -d. Usenet Reader takes slightly longer because you can only post to
    - 1 ng.
    -e. So, you're left with Newsgroup Reader, as the only working freeware.
    -
    -While the Newsgroup Reader interface stinks, it's really the only one
    -out there that is freeware, and that can post to multiple newsgroups.

    is nearer the truth. Most won't even install on my Samsung s10+. The
    only one which does PhoNews won't post.....

    Dave

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Wed Dec 6 15:40:29 2023
    On 12/6/2023 9:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem to be relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a VMS machine or they would not be on here.

    I suspect that there some c.o.v. users that do not currently
    have access to a VMS system, but are here because they once
    had.

    Arne

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Wed Dec 6 21:25:18 2023
    In article <ukqm7t$tggt$1@dont-email.me>,
    Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/6/2023 9:00 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    And while this may be relevant to Usenet as a whole, it would not seem to be >> relevant to comp.os.vms where everyone likely has access to at least a VMS >> machine or they would not be on here.

    I suspect that there some c.o.v. users that do not currently
    have access to a VMS system, but are here because they once
    had.

    It seems like the barrier to entry for getting an account on
    Eisner is pretty low, for those that are interested. This
    newsgroup, perhaps by way of INFO-VAX, is gatewayed into VAX
    notes there (though I don't know if the inverse is also true).

    Whether that's at all convenient for people connecting from
    phones or tablets is an entirely different matter.

    - Dan C.

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  • From Ken Robinson@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Wed Dec 6 21:45:41 2023
    Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote:
    It seems like the barrier to entry for getting an account on
    Eisner is pretty low, for those that are interested. This
    newsgroup, perhaps by way of INFO-VAX, is gatewayed into VAX
    notes there (though I don't know if the inverse is also true).

    Whether that's at all convenient for people connecting from
    phones or tablets is an entirely different matter.

    One of the "subscribers" to the Info-VAX mailing list is an email address
    on Decuserve that is the gateway to VAX notes there. It's not a two-way gateway.

    BTW, I currently don't use VMS, but I'm still interested in it, besides
    running the Info-VAX mailing list.

    I wonder whether it will ever be possible to run VMS under WSL2 on Windows
    like I run Ubuntu. I do almost all my Drupal development on an instance of Ubuntu that runs under WSL2.

    Ken Robinson

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  • From Craig A. Berry@21:1/5 to Ken Robinson on Wed Dec 6 16:07:34 2023
    On 12/6/23 3:45 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:

    I wonder whether it will ever be possible to run VMS under WSL2 on Windows like I run Ubuntu. I do almost all my Drupal development on an instance of Ubuntu that runs under WSL2.

    My understanding of WSL2 is that it is just an Ubuntu instance running
    under Hyper-V with some integrations to allow local file access (though
    slower than WSL1 at that). There have been mentions of possibly
    supporting OpenVMS x86 on Hyper-V at some point. I don't know the state
    of that.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Ken Robinson on Wed Dec 6 17:17:29 2023
    On 12/6/2023 4:45 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:
    I wonder whether it will ever be possible to run VMS under WSL2 on Windows like I run Ubuntu. I do almost all my Drupal development on an instance of Ubuntu that runs under WSL2.

    Technically I cannot see any reason why it would not be possible. But
    it will not happen for business reasons.

    VSI will likely add support for VMS on Hyper-V.

    But Microsoft does the have any financial incentive to do the
    significant effort required to create a WSV (Windows Subsystem
    for VMS). The number of VMS developers is too small.

    Arne

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Craig A. Berry on Wed Dec 6 17:23:51 2023
    On 12/6/2023 5:07 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
    On 12/6/23 3:45 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:
    I wonder whether it will ever be possible to run VMS under WSL2 on
    Windows
    like I run Ubuntu. I do almost all my Drupal development on an
    instance of
    Ubuntu that runs under WSL2.

    My understanding of WSL2 is that it is just an Ubuntu instance running
    under Hyper-V with some integrations to allow local file access (though slower than WSL1 at that).  There have been mentions of possibly
    supporting OpenVMS x86 on Hyper-V at some point.  I don't know the state
    of that.

    WSL2 is just a VM running Linux kernel with a very nice
    Windows integration .

    Ubuntu is default distro, but they do support a few other
    distros: Debian, Kali, OracleLinux, OpenSUSE and SLES (per
    "wsl -l -o" command on my Windows system).

    Arne

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  • From G.@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 7 14:00:20 2023
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.

    G.

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to gerry77@no.spam.mail.com on Thu Dec 7 13:22:51 2023
    On 2023-12-07, G. <gerry77@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.


    Eternal September certainly does have some spam even after filtering, but
    it is nowhere near as bad as an unfiltered feed. Compare comp.os.vms via
    ES with the view from Google Groups to see just how much the ES filters
    are removing.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to gerry77@no.spam.mail.com on Thu Dec 7 14:41:49 2023
    In article <uksfl5$194b9$1@dont-email.me>, G. <gerry77@no.spam.mail.com> wrote: >Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't >think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.

    G.

    It should be getting better this week but if it doesn't, using NNTP allows
    you to set up killfiles using your local newsreader. Cancelling anything
    from Google is a reasonable temporary measure until the ES news guys get
    their filtering dialed in for the current spam blast.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org- on Thu Dec 7 14:45:35 2023
    Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
    On 2023-12-07, G. <gerry77@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't
    think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.


    Eternal September certainly does have some spam even after filtering, but
    it is nowhere near as bad as an unfiltered feed. Compare comp.os.vms via
    ES with the view from Google Groups to see just how much the ES filters
    are removing.

    I honestly don't know what ES is like, but I will say that at our site here they are removing between 2,000 and 5,000 spam messages a day from this group. Which isn't as many as comp.protocols.time.ntp is getting but it's a lot
    more than comp.arch. All of the spam seems to be coming from a a small
    number of Google users, if not a single Google user. Right now, maybe ten
    or twenty spam messages a day are making it through the filters but with
    the new nocem configurations that should be improving.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Thu Dec 7 16:35:08 2023
    In article <ukslqf$6tb$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
    On 2023-12-07, G. <gerry77@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't
    think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.


    Eternal September certainly does have some spam even after filtering, but >>it is nowhere near as bad as an unfiltered feed. Compare comp.os.vms via
    ES with the view from Google Groups to see just how much the ES filters
    are removing.

    I honestly don't know what ES is like, but I will say that at our site here >they are removing between 2,000 and 5,000 spam messages a day from this group. >Which isn't as many as comp.protocols.time.ntp is getting but it's a lot
    more than comp.arch. All of the spam seems to be coming from a a small >number of Google users, if not a single Google user. Right now, maybe ten
    or twenty spam messages a day are making it through the filters but with
    the new nocem configurations that should be improving.

    Scott, is this using Panix's NNTP server? I'm seeing
    substantially more spam than that on this end coming through
    news.panix.com.

    - Dan C.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Froble@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 7 12:57:29 2023
    On 12/7/2023 8:00 AM, G. wrote:
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.

    G.

    My Thunderbird filter for comp.os.vms is "from contains gmail" and while not perfect, mostly works for me.

    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Froble@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Thu Dec 7 12:59:53 2023
    On 12/7/2023 9:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    In article <uksfl5$194b9$1@dont-email.me>, G. <gerry77@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't
    think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.

    G.

    It should be getting better this week but if it doesn't, using NNTP allows you to set up killfiles using your local newsreader. Cancelling anything from Google is a reasonable temporary measure until the ES news guys get their filtering dialed in for the current spam blast.
    --scott


    I'm thinking a 2 lb dart arriving at each spammer at a relative velocity of say,
    .05 C, might help with the problem.

    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Thu Dec 7 20:16:04 2023
    On 07/12/2023 14:45, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
    On 2023-12-07, G. <gerry77@no.spam.mail.com> wrote:
    Il 06/12/2023 01:33, Subcommandante XDelta ha scritto:

    Use a free, quality, NNTP text newsgroup feed such as:

    https://www.i2pn2.org/

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    FWIW, I read comp.os.vms via Eternal September and it's FULL of spam. I don't
    think it makes any difference, anyway I'm reading from Italy.


    Eternal September certainly does have some spam even after filtering, but
    it is nowhere near as bad as an unfiltered feed. Compare comp.os.vms via
    ES with the view from Google Groups to see just how much the ES filters
    are removing.

    I honestly don't know what ES is like, but I will say that at our site here they are removing between 2,000 and 5,000 spam messages a day from this group.
    Which isn't as many as comp.protocols.time.ntp is getting but it's a lot
    more than comp.arch. All of the spam seems to be coming from a a small number of Google users, if not a single Google user. Right now, maybe ten
    or twenty spam messages a day are making it through the filters but with
    the new nocem configurations that should be improving.
    --scott


    They are now grumbling on comp.lang.ada

    --
    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Fri Dec 8 01:26:56 2023
    Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote:

    Scott, is this using Panix's NNTP server? I'm seeing
    substantially more spam than that on this end coming through
    news.panix.com.

    A lot of it comes in but most of it disappears off the server within an
    hour or so since panix is accepting the nocem cancels. Panix does not
    forward it to downstream sites but if you read news on a panix shell machine you may see groups with thousands of messages but come to read them and find only one or two are left. Sometimes you will see a block of spam.. stop reading that group and come back in an hour and it will likely be gone. --scott
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to davef@tsoft-inc.com on Fri Dec 8 01:24:21 2023
    Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
    I'm thinking a 2 lb dart arriving at each spammer at a relative velocity of say,
    .05 C, might help with the problem.

    Oh, the current explosion seems to be from just one spammer. There are other spam posts here and there but the runs of thousands at a time are from one
    guy.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave McGuire@21:1/5 to Ken Robinson on Thu Dec 7 21:35:16 2023
    On 11/28/23 15:12, Ken Robinson wrote:
    Everyone else can ignore this post...

    I've put in a filter to kill any posts that come from Google groups, but
    I'm not sure if it's filtering out legitimate posts. I haven't seen a non-spam post since I put the filter in place.

    Thank you. We just took the difficult but carefully-considered step
    of adding google-groups.googlegroups.com to bad_paths in our cleanfeed configuration on our news server this evening. It seems news admins all
    over the place are doing that now, just over the past few weeks.

    It's like the Eternal September transition all over again, only a
    thousand times worse. Our NNTP feed went from taking about 4% of our downstream bandwidth to about 70% over the past two months because of
    Google's spam. Complaints fall on deaf ears.

    Yes, legitimate posts are getting whacked. Smart people shouldn't be
    using Google Groups for Usenet access. (or Gmail for email, either!)
    It's time to face the reality: Google has turned evil.

    -Dave

    --
    Dave McGuire, President/Curator
    Large Scale Systems Museum
    New Kensington, PA

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Fri Dec 8 13:10:32 2023
    On 2023-12-07, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    They are now grumbling on comp.lang.ada


    Noticed that, which surprised me because I had not seen any increase
    using Eternal September so the ES filters are obviously working very
    well for comp.lang.ada.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Fri Dec 8 13:08:37 2023
    On 2023-12-07, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
    I'm thinking a 2 lb dart arriving at each spammer at a relative velocity of say,
    .05 C, might help with the problem.

    Oh, the current explosion seems to be from just one spammer. There are other spam posts here and there but the runs of thousands at a time are from one guy.

    Does anyone know the motivation of this person and why this person is
    doing this ?

    Has this person been wronged in some way ?

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Fri Dec 8 17:29:23 2023
    In article <uktrd0$ofn$1@panix2.panix.com>,
    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote:

    Scott, is this using Panix's NNTP server? I'm seeing
    substantially more spam than that on this end coming through >>news.panix.com.

    A lot of it comes in but most of it disappears off the server within an
    hour or so since panix is accepting the nocem cancels. Panix does not >forward it to downstream sites but if you read news on a panix shell machine >you may see groups with thousands of messages but come to read them and find >only one or two are left. Sometimes you will see a block of spam.. stop >reading that group and come back in an hour and it will likely be gone.

    Interesting. I see it now. I have:

    /^message-id:.*googlegroups.*/h:j

    In my trn News/KILL file, so I wasn't seeing (most) of the spam
    anyway, but it's good to know it's being cleared off of the NNTP
    server as well.

    - Dan C.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org- on Fri Dec 8 23:21:18 2023
    Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
    On 2023-12-07, Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
    I'm thinking a 2 lb dart arriving at each spammer at a relative velocity of say,
    .05 C, might help with the problem.

    Oh, the current explosion seems to be from just one spammer. There are other
    spam posts here and there but the runs of thousands at a time are from one >> guy.

    Does anyone know the motivation of this person and why this person is
    doing this ?

    Has this person been wronged in some way ?

    No, but it's clear that it's a revenge attempt at this point and not an
    actual attempt to sell anything. It may not have started out that way.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave McGuire@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Fri Dec 8 18:46:40 2023
    On 12/8/23 08:08, Simon Clubley wrote:
    I'm thinking a 2 lb dart arriving at each spammer at a relative velocity of say,
    .05 C, might help with the problem.

    Oh, the current explosion seems to be from just one spammer. There are other
    spam posts here and there but the runs of thousands at a time are from one >> guy.

    Does anyone know the motivation of this person and why this person is
    doing this ?

    Has this person been wronged in some way ?

    I'd certainly welcome the chance to wrong him.

    -Dave

    --
    Dave McGuire, President/Curator
    Large Scale Systems Museum
    New Kensington, PA

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jay E. Morris@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Fri Dec 8 20:50:51 2023
    On 12/7/2023 8:41 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    It should be getting better this week but if it doesn't, using NNTP allows you to set up killfiles using your local newsreader. Cancelling anything from Google is a reasonable temporary measure until the ES news guys get their filtering dialed in for the current spam blast.

    Actually ES news guy. Ray Banana is the owner and only monkey in the show.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to Dave McGuire on Sat Dec 9 15:36:43 2023
    On 08/12/2023 23:46, Dave McGuire wrote:
    On 12/8/23 08:08, Simon Clubley wrote:
    I'm thinking a 2 lb dart arriving at each spammer at a relative
    velocity of say,
    .05 C, might help with the problem.

    Oh, the current explosion seems to be from just one spammer.  There
    are other
    spam posts here and there but the runs of thousands at a time are
    from one
    guy.

    Does anyone know the motivation of this person and why this person is
    doing this ?

    Has this person been wronged in some way ?

      I'd certainly welcome the chance to wrong him.

                 -Dave


    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for Windows?

    I currently use Eternal September and Thunderbird, and find Thunderbird
    flaky at best. With all the spam about I have to close and reopen it
    multiple times to actually read messages that are there. Setting up
    filters is fiddly as well. Most of the stuff around seems to be aimed at
    binary downloads - I just want something for reading, and posting.

    I tried Pan yesterday, no documentation, and I could only get it to work partially

    --
    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Sat Dec 9 09:46:03 2023
    On 12/9/23 09:36, Chris Townley wrote:
    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for Windows?

    I believe Steve Gibson w/ GRC has a fork of Gravity updated to deal with
    some date issue. You might give that a try. -- I'm not a Windows
    user, so I don't have any experience.

    I am a long time Thunderbird user -- now mostly because I haven't found
    an acceptable replacement.

    Occasionally I need to right click on a newsgroup, go to the newsgroup's properties, and click repair. That will cause Thunderbird to
    re-download messages, or at least the last X number of messages. That
    usually helps when working with a specific newsgroup gets too large.

    Sadly, with all the spam emanating from Google Groups, newsgroups are
    growing a lot quicker, even if things do get cleaned up after the fact.



    --
    Grant. . . .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net on Sun Dec 10 09:05:57 2023
    On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 09:46:03 -0600, Grant Taylor
    <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

    On 12/9/23 09:36, Chris Townley wrote:
    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for
    Windows?

    I believe Steve Gibson w/ GRC has a fork of Gravity updated to deal with
    some date issue. You might give that a try. -- I'm not a Windows
    user, so I don't have any experience.

    I am a long time Thunderbird user -- now mostly because I haven't found
    an acceptable replacement.

    Occasionally I need to right click on a newsgroup, go to the newsgroup's >properties, and click repair. That will cause Thunderbird to
    re-download messages, or at least the last X number of messages. That >usually helps when working with a specific newsgroup gets too large.

    Sadly, with all the spam emanating from Google Groups, newsgroups are
    growing a lot quicker, even if things do get cleaned up after the fact.

    Ah, excellent! - thank you for the Gravity tip. I use Forte Agent, for
    Windows, and while still magnificent, it's showing its age, and hasn't
    been actively developed and maintained for going on a decade.

    I cannot say I an enamoured of the Thunderbird's Newsreader.

    https://www.grc.com/discussions.htm

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Sat Dec 9 19:18:04 2023
    On 12/9/2023 10:36 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for Windows?

    I currently use Eternal September and Thunderbird, and find Thunderbird
    flaky at best. With all the spam about I have to close and reopen it
    multiple times to actually read messages that are there. Setting up
    filters is fiddly as well. Most of the stuff around seems to be aimed at binary downloads - I just want something for reading, and posting.

    I use ThunderBird on Windows and do not have a need to
    close and reopen.

    And filter seemed pretty simple to me: define filter
    matching anything from GG but not from a few named
    users and action=delete and run when getting new. It works.

    Arne

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clark G@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Sun Dec 10 01:45:28 2023
    Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote in
    news:ul21ic$28j03$1@dont-email.me:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader
    for Windows?

    I currently use Eternal September and Thunderbird, and find
    Thunderbird flaky at best. With all the spam about I have to close and
    reopen it multiple times to actually read messages that are there.
    Setting up filters is fiddly as well. Most of the stuff around seems
    to be aimed at binary downloads - I just want something for reading,
    and posting.

    I tried Pan yesterday, no documentation, and I could only get it to
    work partially

    I have been using XNews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xnews
    It is pretty old and not supported but it has done what I need. It is
    working in Windows 10 fine. I like that I can read by using single key
    commands and not have to use the mouse at all. There is an addition I
    found to allow it to properly display non-English characters. I can't
    remember right now how that was done.

    --
    Clark G
    * take away the em's to reply

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Clark G on Sun Dec 10 07:44:10 2023
    On 10/12/2023 01:45, Clark G wrote:
    Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote in news:ul21ic$28j03$1@dont-email.me:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader
    for Windows?

    I currently use Eternal September and Thunderbird, and find
    Thunderbird flaky at best. With all the spam about I have to close and
    reopen it multiple times to actually read messages that are there.
    Setting up filters is fiddly as well. Most of the stuff around seems
    to be aimed at binary downloads - I just want something for reading,
    and posting.

    I found that if I refreshed the message list from the server it worked


    I tried Pan yesterday, no documentation, and I could only get it to
    work partially

    I have been using XNews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xnews
    It is pretty old and not supported but it has done what I need. It is
    working in Windows 10 fine. I like that I can read by using single key commands and not have to use the mouse at all. There is an addition I
    found to allow it to properly display non-English characters. I can't remember right now how that was done.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 10 07:41:42 2023
    On 10/12/2023 00:18, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    On 12/9/2023 10:36 AM, Chris Townley wrote:
    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader
    for Windows?

    I currently use Eternal September and Thunderbird, and find
    Thunderbird flaky at best. With all the spam about I have to close and
    reopen it multiple times to actually read messages that are there.
    Setting up filters is fiddly as well. Most of the stuff around seems
    to be aimed at binary downloads - I just want something for reading,
    and posting.

    I use ThunderBird on Windows and do not have a need to
    close and reopen.


    The latest release seems to have fixed these problems but creates
    others. I did resort going into the config editor and setting:-

    mail.operate_on_msgs_in_collapsed_threads

    to "false" but its now ok..

    And filter seemed pretty simple to me: define filter
    matching anything from GG but not from a few named
    users and action=delete and run when getting new. It works.



    yes filters are fine

    Arne




    Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to David Wade on Sun Dec 10 15:01:30 2023
    On 10/12/2023 07:41, David Wade wrote:

    The latest release seems to have fixed these problems but creates
    others. I did resort going into the config editor and setting:-

    mail.operate_on_msgs_in_collapsed_threads

    to "false" but its now ok..


    Where is this config editor? Couldn't find this in settings

    --
    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Sun Dec 10 15:26:04 2023
    Chris Townley wrote:

    David Wade wrote:

    The latest release seems to have fixed these problems but creates
    others. I did resort going into the config editor and setting:-

    mail.operate_on_msgs_in_collapsed_threads

    to "false" but its now ok..

    Where is this config editor? Couldn't find this in settings


    tools / settings / general / config editor

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Mon Dec 11 00:04:11 2023
    On 10/12/2023 15:01, Chris Townley wrote:
    On 10/12/2023 07:41, David Wade wrote:

    The latest release seems to have fixed these problems but creates
    others. I did resort going into the config editor and setting:-

    mail.operate_on_msgs_in_collapsed_threads

    to "false" but its now ok..


    Where is this config editor? Couldn't find this in settings


    Open "Settings" and scroll to the bottom. Of course this is after the
    last major re-write

    Dave

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  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Dec 10 23:31:43 2023
    On 10/12/2023 15:26, Andy Burns wrote:
    Chris Townley wrote:

    David Wade wrote:

    The latest release seems to have fixed these problems but creates
    others. I did resort going into the config editor and setting:-

    mail.operate_on_msgs_in_collapsed_threads

    to "false" but its now ok..

    Where is this config editor? Couldn't find this in settings


    tools / settings / general / config editor

    Thanks, I will see if it helps

    --
    Chris

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Mon Dec 11 13:09:57 2023
    On 2023-12-09, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for Windows?


    Will slrn run under Cygwin ?

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gary R. Schmidt@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Tue Dec 12 00:22:50 2023
    On 12/12/2023 00:09, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-09, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for
    Windows?


    Will slrn run under Cygwin ?

    You can build it: <https://www.andrews-corner.org/slrn-windows.html>

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Dec 11 09:58:03 2023
    On 12/11/2023 9:16 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-11, Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
    On 12/12/2023 00:09, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-09, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for >>>> Windows?


    Will slrn run under Cygwin ?

    You can build it: <https://www.andrews-corner.org/slrn-windows.html>


    That appears to be for Windows native and appears to be a significant exercise to build.

    With Cygwin, slrn believes it is running under a form of Unix and, having
    had a quick look, it does appear there are prebuilt versions of slrn in
    the Cygwin repository:

    https://cygwin.com/packages/summary/slrn.html

    I have no idea if there are functionality limitations when running slrn
    under Cygwin, but it might be worth exploring for people interested in
    an option other than Thunderbird.

    Just to be clear about what Cygwin provides.

    Cygwin build tools, compilers, header files, libraries etc.
    allow one to build *nix source code. The result is Windows
    EXE/DLL that run on any Windows as long as the the Cygwin
    runtime DLL is present.

    Nice tool. I have used it for more than 20 years.

    But it is not emulating Linux like WSL1 does (or Wine
    does in the reverse direction).

    Arne

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Gary R. Schmidt on Mon Dec 11 14:16:57 2023
    On 2023-12-11, Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
    On 12/12/2023 00:09, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-09, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for
    Windows?


    Will slrn run under Cygwin ?

    You can build it: <https://www.andrews-corner.org/slrn-windows.html>


    That appears to be for Windows native and appears to be a significant
    exercise to build.

    With Cygwin, slrn believes it is running under a form of Unix and, having
    had a quick look, it does appear there are prebuilt versions of slrn in
    the Cygwin repository:

    https://cygwin.com/packages/summary/slrn.html

    I have no idea if there are functionality limitations when running slrn
    under Cygwin, but it might be worth exploring for people interested in
    an option other than Thunderbird.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Dec 11 23:59:02 2023
    On 11/12/2023 13:09, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-09, Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    Can anyone recommend a half decent free (or inexpensive) newsreader for
    Windows?


    Will slrn run under Cygwin ?

    Simon.


    I believe they provide Windows execs - I will give that a try

    I like did the look of pan, but as I said before it didn't work, which
    is a bit of downer ;)

    I am surprised there aren't any more modern progs around, with the
    amount of usenet readers about - and I don't want to download binaries!

    --
    Chris

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Tue Dec 12 13:18:44 2023
    On 2023-12-11, Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/11/2023 9:16 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:

    With Cygwin, slrn believes it is running under a form of Unix and, having
    had a quick look, it does appear there are prebuilt versions of slrn in
    the Cygwin repository:

    https://cygwin.com/packages/summary/slrn.html

    I have no idea if there are functionality limitations when running slrn
    under Cygwin, but it might be worth exploring for people interested in
    an option other than Thunderbird.

    Just to be clear about what Cygwin provides.

    Cygwin build tools, compilers, header files, libraries etc.
    allow one to build *nix source code. The result is Windows
    EXE/DLL that run on any Windows as long as the the Cygwin
    runtime DLL is present.

    Nice tool. I have used it for more than 20 years.

    But it is not emulating Linux like WSL1 does (or Wine
    does in the reverse direction).


    Yes. Like I said above, it's emulating the various Unix APIs instead and providing the kinds of tools you would see under Linux. For anyone confused about the difference, look at the output of "uname -o" both under Cygwin
    and under Linux. Under Cygwin, "Cygwin" is output as the OS, not "Linux".

    Think of it as a seriously beefed-up version of POSIX that even allows
    you to run X under Windows.

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Townley@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 13 00:01:17 2023
    On 12/12/2023 23:53, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    On 12/12/2023 8:18 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-11, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/11/2023 9:16 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:

    With Cygwin, slrn believes it is running under a form of Unix and,
    having
    had a quick look, it does appear there are prebuilt versions of slrn in >>>> the Cygwin repository:

    https://cygwin.com/packages/summary/slrn.html

    I have no idea if there are functionality limitations when running slrn >>>> under Cygwin, but it might be worth exploring for people interested in >>>> an option other than Thunderbird.

    Just to be clear about what Cygwin provides.

    Cygwin build tools, compilers, header files, libraries etc.
    allow one to build *nix source code. The result is Windows
    EXE/DLL that run on any Windows as long as the the Cygwin
    runtime DLL is present.

    Nice tool. I have used it for more than 20 years.

    But it is not emulating Linux like WSL1 does (or Wine
    does in the reverse direction).

    Yes. Like I said above, it's emulating the various Unix APIs instead and
    providing the kinds of tools you would see under Linux. For anyone
    confused
    about the difference, look at the output of "uname -o" both under Cygwin
    and under Linux. Under Cygwin, "Cygwin" is output as the OS, not "Linux".

    #include <stdio.h>

    #include <sys/utsname.h>

    #include <sysinfoapi.h>
    #include <winnt.h>

    int main()
    {
        struct utsname un;
        uname(&un);
        printf("sysname=%s, release=%s\n", un.sysname, un.release);
        struct _OSVERSIONINFOA osvi;
        osvi.dwOSVersionInfoSize = sizeof(struct _OSVERSIONINFOA);
        GetVersionExA(&osvi);
        printf("%s major=%d minor=%d build=%d\n", osvi.dwPlatformId == VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ? "NT" : "Unknown", osvi.dwMajorVersion, osvi.dwMinorVersion, osvi.dwBuildNumber);
        return 0;
    }

    on my PC outputs:

    sysname=CYGWIN_NT-10.0-19045, release=3.4.7-1.x86_64
    NT major=10 minor=0 build=19045

    It knows what Windows Cygwin is hosted on.

    Think of it as a seriously beefed-up version of POSIX that even allows
    you to run X under Windows.

    I think that is a very accurate description.

    It is also very close to how Cygwin itself sees it.

    https://www.cygwin.com/faq.html#faq.what.what

    <quote>
    What is it?


    Cygwin is a distribution of popular GNU and other Open Source tools
    running on Microsoft Windows. The core part is the Cygwin library which provides the POSIX system calls and environment these programs expect.

    The Cygwin distribution contains thousands of packages from the Open
    Source world including most GNU tools, many BSD tools, an X server and a
    full set of X applications. If you're a developer you will find tools, headers and libraries allowing to write Windows console or GUI
    applications that make use of significant parts of the POSIX API. Cygwin allows easy porting of many Unix programs without the need for extensive changes to the source code. This includes configuring and building most
    of the available GNU or BSD software, including the packages included
    with the Cygwin distribution themselves. They can be used from one of
    the provided Unix shells like bash, tcsh or zsh.
    </quote>

    Don't forget MS also has msys2 that runs in the same way

    --
    Chris

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Chris Townley on Tue Dec 12 19:10:06 2023
    On 12/12/2023 7:01 PM, Chris Townley wrote:
    On 12/12/2023 23:53, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    On 12/12/2023 8:18 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    Think of it as a seriously beefed-up version of POSIX that even allows
    you to run X under Windows.

    I think that is a very accurate description.

    It is also very close to how Cygwin itself sees it.

    https://www.cygwin.com/faq.html#faq.what.what

    <quote>
    What is it?


    Cygwin is a distribution of popular GNU and other Open Source tools
    running on Microsoft Windows. The core part is the Cygwin library
    which provides the POSIX system calls and environment these programs
    expect.

    The Cygwin distribution contains thousands of packages from the Open
    Source world including most GNU tools, many BSD tools, an X server and
    a full set of X applications. If you're a developer you will find
    tools, headers and libraries allowing to write Windows console or GUI
    applications that make use of significant parts of the POSIX API.
    Cygwin allows easy porting of many Unix programs without the need for
    extensive changes to the source code. This includes configuring and
    building most of the available GNU or BSD software, including the
    packages included with the Cygwin distribution themselves. They can be
    used from one of the provided Unix shells like bash, tcsh or zsh.
    </quote>

    Don't forget MS also has msys2 that runs in the same way

    That I have never used.

    Google finds:

    https://www.msys2.org/wiki/How-does-MSYS2-differ-from-Cygwin/

    with some description of how it compares to Cygwin.

    Arne

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Tue Dec 12 18:53:40 2023
    On 12/12/2023 8:18 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2023-12-11, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/11/2023 9:16 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:

    With Cygwin, slrn believes it is running under a form of Unix and, having >>> had a quick look, it does appear there are prebuilt versions of slrn in
    the Cygwin repository:

    https://cygwin.com/packages/summary/slrn.html

    I have no idea if there are functionality limitations when running slrn
    under Cygwin, but it might be worth exploring for people interested in
    an option other than Thunderbird.

    Just to be clear about what Cygwin provides.

    Cygwin build tools, compilers, header files, libraries etc.
    allow one to build *nix source code. The result is Windows
    EXE/DLL that run on any Windows as long as the the Cygwin
    runtime DLL is present.

    Nice tool. I have used it for more than 20 years.

    But it is not emulating Linux like WSL1 does (or Wine
    does in the reverse direction).

    Yes. Like I said above, it's emulating the various Unix APIs instead and providing the kinds of tools you would see under Linux. For anyone confused about the difference, look at the output of "uname -o" both under Cygwin
    and under Linux. Under Cygwin, "Cygwin" is output as the OS, not "Linux".

    #include <stdio.h>

    #include <sys/utsname.h>

    #include <sysinfoapi.h>
    #include <winnt.h>

    int main()
    {
    struct utsname un;
    uname(&un);
    printf("sysname=%s, release=%s\n", un.sysname, un.release);
    struct _OSVERSIONINFOA osvi;
    osvi.dwOSVersionInfoSize = sizeof(struct _OSVERSIONINFOA);
    GetVersionExA(&osvi);
    printf("%s major=%d minor=%d build=%d\n", osvi.dwPlatformId == VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ? "NT" : "Unknown", osvi.dwMajorVersion, osvi.dwMinorVersion, osvi.dwBuildNumber);
    return 0;
    }

    on my PC outputs:

    sysname=CYGWIN_NT-10.0-19045, release=3.4.7-1.x86_64
    NT major=10 minor=0 build=19045

    It knows what Windows Cygwin is hosted on.

    Think of it as a seriously beefed-up version of POSIX that even allows
    you to run X under Windows.

    I think that is a very accurate description.

    It is also very close to how Cygwin itself sees it.

    https://www.cygwin.com/faq.html#faq.what.what

    <quote>
    What is it?


    Cygwin is a distribution of popular GNU and other Open Source tools
    running on Microsoft Windows. The core part is the Cygwin library which provides the POSIX system calls and environment these programs expect.

    The Cygwin distribution contains thousands of packages from the Open
    Source world including most GNU tools, many BSD tools, an X server and a
    full set of X applications. If you're a developer you will find tools,
    headers and libraries allowing to write Windows console or GUI
    applications that make use of significant parts of the POSIX API. Cygwin
    allows easy porting of many Unix programs without the need for extensive changes to the source code. This includes configuring and building most
    of the available GNU or BSD software, including the packages included
    with the Cygwin distribution themselves. They can be used from one of
    the provided Unix shells like bash, tcsh or zsh.
    </quote>

    Arne

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Wed Dec 13 15:17:50 2023
    In article <6578f284$0$705$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
    Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    [snip]

    Yes. Like I said above, it's emulating the various Unix APIs instead and
    providing the kinds of tools you would see under Linux. For anyone confused >> about the difference, look at the output of "uname -o" both under Cygwin
    and under Linux. Under Cygwin, "Cygwin" is output as the OS, not "Linux".

    #include <stdio.h>

    #include <sys/utsname.h>

    #include <sysinfoapi.h>
    #include <winnt.h>

    int main()
    {
    struct utsname un;
    uname(&un);
    printf("sysname=%s, release=%s\n", un.sysname, un.release);
    struct _OSVERSIONINFOA osvi;
    osvi.dwOSVersionInfoSize = sizeof(struct _OSVERSIONINFOA);
    GetVersionExA(&osvi);
    printf("%s major=%d minor=%d build=%d\n", osvi.dwPlatformId ==

    Don't you mean to use `%u` for the format specifier for the dwords?
    Those are unsigned. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/winprog/windows-data-types

    VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ? "NT" : "Unknown", osvi.dwMajorVersion, >osvi.dwMinorVersion, osvi.dwBuildNumber);
    return 0;
    }

    - Dan C.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Wed Dec 13 15:42:40 2023
    On 12/13/2023 10:17 AM, Dan Cross wrote:
    In article <6578f284$0$705$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
    Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    [snip]

    Yes. Like I said above, it's emulating the various Unix APIs instead and >>> providing the kinds of tools you would see under Linux. For anyone confused >>> about the difference, look at the output of "uname -o" both under Cygwin >>> and under Linux. Under Cygwin, "Cygwin" is output as the OS, not "Linux". >>
    #include <stdio.h>

    #include <sys/utsname.h>

    #include <sysinfoapi.h>
    #include <winnt.h>

    int main()
    {
    struct utsname un;
    uname(&un);
    printf("sysname=%s, release=%s\n", un.sysname, un.release);
    struct _OSVERSIONINFOA osvi;
    osvi.dwOSVersionInfoSize = sizeof(struct _OSVERSIONINFOA);
    GetVersionExA(&osvi);
    printf("%s major=%d minor=%d build=%d\n", osvi.dwPlatformId ==
    VER_PLATFORM_WIN32_NT ? "NT" : "Unknown", osvi.dwMajorVersion,
    osvi.dwMinorVersion, osvi.dwBuildNumber);
    return 0;
    }

    Don't you mean to use `%u` for the format specifier for the dwords?
    Those are unsigned.

    True. %u would be the correct format.

    Arne

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