• Re: A cry for help

    From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Subcommandante XDelta on Sun Nov 26 10:08:57 2023
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    Shoot the idea down, gently, and accurately.

    I doubt people would be [aware/willing/remember] to tweak the subject
    line like that, what if every group came up with individual rules?

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to vlf@star.enet.dec.com on Sun Nov 26 12:30:31 2023
    Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
    1. Everyone agrees when posting a new topic to start the subject line
    with a TAG: [tag}, on date DATE.

    Most of the postings about vms have the word "vms" in the subject anyway,
    so adding it to some that don't should be no problem, to accomodate people without the ability to filter on regexps.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to vlf@star.enet.dec.com on Sun Dec 3 22:38:27 2023
    On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 13:29:28 +1100, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 13:13:22 -0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley ><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:

    On 2023-11-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:

    I wave the white flag, I surrender, this torrential flood of mutating
    spam is overwhelming, manual adjustments of my ad-hoc kill-filters, in
    forte agent, on windows, just isn't cutting the mustard any more.

    What is the best-practice best-practice, in terms of usenet feeds,
    usenet reader clients, and kill-filters, or bayesian spam filtering,
    that minimises baby bathwater frienly fire collateral damage, and
    stays on top of this synamically devolving situation?

    Has anyone achieved this? - please do report in, thank you.

    Yes. Use Eternal September. I lose all the Google Groups postings to >>comp.os.vms, which is unfortunate, but it is a lot better than the >>alternative.

    Others here have also reported good things about news.i2pn2.org.

    Simon.

    Thanks Simon and Andy (Burns), for the reflections.

    After some pottering about with Claws Mail for Windows, I decided to
    give Mozilla Thunderbird a bash, with the i2pn2 newsfeed and was
    pleasantly surprised - SPAM free, although retention of posts at i2pn2
    seems to be siz months only.

    Given some retro PGP requirements (Enigmail v1.9.9), I am still
    running a relatively ancient v55.0 of Thunderbird, but encountered no >problems.

    Looking at the filtering modes available, in Thunderbird, in the
    spirit of "Semper Kludgeamus", spit, tissue, string, and gaffer tape,
    how is this for a way forward until the SPAM flood abates:

    1. Everyone agrees when posting a new topic to start the subject line
    with a TAG: [tag}, on date DATE.

    2. Everyone agrees that if someone posts a new topic without the
    agreed TAG, then they do not post any solid technical content to the
    topic, only reminders to the original poster, to re-post tout suite,
    using the agreed TAG.

    3. Anyone who wants a grief free c.o.v. life uses a Usenet text
    newsreader application that enables then to specify kill filters to
    match both these criteria:

    a) The subject line does not include the agreed TAG

    b) The post date is after the DATE that the TAG protocol discipline
    was implemented.

    Such a filter is possible in the cross-platform Mozilla Thunderbird,
    at least.

    Whomeever is flooding the SPAM, is doing so blindly, and it's
    improbable that they'd pick up on the protocol in c.o.v.

    Shoot the idea down, gently, and accurately. :-)

    Sometimes you just have to take your own thought-bubbles, out to the
    back paddock, and pop them unceremoniously.

    Such rules work for initial posts, but not to replies to such posts,
    oh well..

    As for experiments, based on given advice:

    1. Eternal September:

    https://www.eternal-september.org/

    Good retention back to 2005-ish, filters most of the SPAM, however,
    not perfectly, the SPAM remains an annoyance, but newsgroup life can
    limp on.

    2. https://www.i2pn2.org/

    Poor retention, back about six months, however, it does an excellent
    job filtering the SPAM, and only the odd, sparse, one gets through,
    comp.os.vms life can carry on, pretty much as normal.

    Both work well with the cross-platform Mozilla Thunderbird email
    client, and are free to use.

    I cannot imagine there is any good reason, for people to keep
    participating with the colloquy through google-groups, other than
    using it for historical research, given its extensive retention.

    I'm keeping an weather eye on the SPAM, in my usual Newsreader Forte
    Agent, with a NewsGroupDirect (NGD) feed, circa 35,000 SPAM messages
    in the last week! (the NGD admins are certainly not on top of the
    situation yet, but they have been formally informed)

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Subcommandante XDelta on Sun Dec 3 12:56:39 2023
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    I cannot imagine there is any good reason, for people to keep
    participating with the colloquy through google-groups, other than
    using it for historical research, given its extensive retention.

    You shouldn't rely on google to preserve the archive forever (n.b. a few
    years ago google users started spamming uk.telecom with credit card
    data, in response google removed the group from G2, which made the
    archive inaccessible).

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Dec 3 08:44:33 2023
    On 12/3/2023 7:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    I cannot imagine there is any good reason, for people to keep
    participating with the colloquy through google-groups, other than
    using it for historical research, given its extensive retention.

    You shouldn't rely on google to preserve the archive forever (n.b. a few years ago google users started spamming uk.telecom with credit card
    data, in response google removed the group from G2, which made the
    archive inaccessible).

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

    Neither http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/ nor https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/ seems to go back to the
    beginning.

    There may be more maillist archives.

    Arne

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  • From Ken Robinson@21:1/5 to arne@vajhoej.dk on Sun Dec 3 17:11:13 2023
    Arne Vajh°j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/3/2023 7:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

    Neither http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/ nor https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/ seems to go back to the
    beginning.


    I took over the Info-VAX mailing in 2008 and, unfortunately,
    didn't copy the archives from theprevious owner of the list.

    Ken

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Dec 3 10:47:09 2023
    On 12/3/23 06:56, Andy Burns wrote:
    You shouldn't rely on google to preserve the archive forever (n.b. a few years ago google users started spamming uk.telecom with credit card
    data, in response google removed the group from G2, which made the
    archive inaccessible).

    My personal opinion is that Google is going to eventually deprecate the
    Google Groups Usenet gateway and any / all history that they had will disappear. Probably more silently than we would like.



    --
    Grant. . . .

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@21:1/5 to Ken Robinson on Sun Dec 3 13:10:25 2023
    On 12/3/2023 12:11 PM, Ken Robinson wrote:
    Arne Vajh├Şj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/3/2023 7:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

    Neither http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/ nor
    https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/ seems to go back to the
    beginning.


    I took over the Info-VAX mailing in 2008 and, unfortunately,
    didn't copy the archives from theprevious owner of the list.

    And both:
    ftp://crvax.sri.com/info-vax/
    ftp://mvb.saic.com/info-vax/
    seems to be gone.

    I wonder if anyone still has a copy of those.

    Arne

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to kenrbnsn@my-test-bed.com on Mon Dec 4 08:52:03 2023
    On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 17:11:13 -0000 (UTC), Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@my-test-bed.com> wrote:

    Arne Vajh°j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/3/2023 7:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

    Neither http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/ nor
    https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/ seems to go back to the
    beginning.


    I took over the Info-VAX mailing in 2008 and, unfortunately,
    didn't copy the archives from theprevious owner of the list.

    Ken

    Hello Ken,

    How does one currrently subscribe to Info-VAX? - Thank you.

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Mon Dec 4 13:53:16 2023
    On 2023-12-03, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
    On 12/3/23 06:56, Andy Burns wrote:
    You shouldn't rely on google to preserve the archive forever (n.b. a few
    years ago google users started spamming uk.telecom with credit card
    data, in response google removed the group from G2, which made the
    archive inaccessible).

    My personal opinion is that Google is going to eventually deprecate the Google Groups Usenet gateway and any / all history that they had will disappear. Probably more silently than we would like.


    Have you noticed how Google keeps killing the products that people still
    use, but will not kill the product that many wish _would_ disappear. :-)

    Simon.

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From Ken Robinson@21:1/5 to comp.os.vms to email gateway on Mon Dec 4 08:25:50 2023
    At 04:52 PM 12/3/2023, Subcommandante XDelta via Info-vax wrote:

    Hello Ken,

    How does one currrently subscribe to Info-VAX? - Thank you.

    Send an email to info-vax-request@rbnsn.com
    with a subject of "subscribe" (no quotes)

    Ken

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Simon Clubley on Mon Dec 4 10:36:41 2023
    On 12/4/23 07:53, Simon Clubley wrote:
    Have you noticed how Google keeps killing the products that people still
    use, but will not kill the product that many wish _would_ disappear. :-)

    Yes. Very much so.

    Have you noticed that they keep making the surviving products less useful?



    --
    Grant. . . .

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 5 19:49:53 2023
    On Mon, 04 Dec 2023 08:25:50 -0500, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com>
    wrote:

    At 04:52 PM 12/3/2023, Subcommandante XDelta via Info-vax wrote:

    Hello Ken,

    How does one currrently subscribe to Info-VAX? - Thank you.

    Send an email to info-vax-request@rbnsn.com
    with a subject of "subscribe" (no quotes)

    Ken


    Thank you, Mr Robinson.

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  • From Simon Clubley@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Dec 5 13:24:35 2023
    On 2023-12-04, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
    On 12/4/23 07:53, Simon Clubley wrote:
    Have you noticed how Google keeps killing the products that people still
    use, but will not kill the product that many wish _would_ disappear. :-)

    Yes. Very much so.

    Have you noticed that they keep making the surviving products less useful?


    Yes :-( and it seems to be a trend everywhere these days, including normally high-quality stuff you buy in the physical world... :-(

    (It's a _very_ sore subject for me at the moment, because I just bought a new walking backpack as my current one is showing its age. I ended up buying the same one again, which is now made directly by Rab instead of the company it acquired. Fortunately, none of the "improvements" turned out to be deal breakers.)

    At one time "improvements" really were improvements...

    Simon.

    PS: Sorry, rant over. :-) Grant just picked a very bad time to bring
    this up. :-)

    --
    Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
    Walking destinations on a map are further away than they appear.

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  • From Mark Berryman@21:1/5 to Ken Robinson on Tue Dec 5 08:14:46 2023
    On 12/3/23 10:11 AM, Ken Robinson wrote:
    Arne Vajh├Şj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/3/2023 7:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

    Neither http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/ nor
    https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/ seems to go back to the
    beginning.


    I took over the Info-VAX mailing in 2008 and, unfortunately,
    didn't copy the archives from theprevious owner of the list.

    An archive of Info-VAX from 1996 to 2008 can be found here: https://theberrymans.com/decus/info-vax/

    Mark Berryman

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  • From Single Stage to Orbit@21:1/5 to Mark Berryman on Tue Dec 5 16:07:30 2023
    On Tue, 2023-12-05 at 08:14 -0700, Mark Berryman wrote:
    I took over the Info-VAX mailing in 2008 and, unfortunately,
    didn't copy the archives from theprevious owner of the list.

    An archive of Info-VAX from 1996 to 2008 can be found here: https://theberrymans.com/decus/info-vax/

    Happily this is also preserved on the Wayback Machine as well.
    --
    Tactical Nuclear Kittens

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to topmoviewatch@gmail.com on Wed Dec 6 08:30:41 2023
    WTF++!!

    SPAM penetrating conversation threads, now? :-(

    On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 05:28:13 -0800 (PST), theme around
    <topmoviewatch@gmail.com> wrote:

    ????????????????????????????


    ?? Read ???? ??? https://www.themearound.com


    ?????????? ???? ??? https://www.themearound.com



    SPAM
    SPAM
    SPAM
    :
    :
    :

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Subcommandante XDelta on Tue Dec 5 17:49:32 2023
    On 12/5/23 15:30, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
    SPAM penetrating conversation threads, now? :-(

    I'm not surprised.

    It was bound to happen at some point.

    I honestly wondered if / when spammers would simply glom onto the most
    recent X messages and use them as the seed.

    ?? Read ???? ??? REDACTED


    ?????????? ???? ??? REDACTED

    Aside: Please make sure to redact any URLs in spam when quoting it.



    --
    Grant. . . .

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net on Wed Dec 6 11:34:38 2023
    On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 17:49:32 -0600, Grant Taylor
    <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

    On 12/5/23 15:30, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
    SPAM penetrating conversation threads, now? :-(

    I'm not surprised.

    It was bound to happen at some point.

    I honestly wondered if / when spammers would simply glom onto the most
    recent X messages and use them as the seed.

    ?? Read ???? ??? REDACTED


    ?????????? ???? ??? REDACTED

    Aside: Please make sure to redact any URLs in spam when quoting it.

    10-4! - With apologies. :-)

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  • From Subcommandante XDelta@21:1/5 to mark@theberrymans.com on Wed Dec 6 20:16:20 2023
    On Tue, 5 Dec 2023 08:14:46 -0700, Mark Berryman
    <mark@theberrymans.com> wrote:

    On 12/3/23 10:11 AM, Ken Robinson wrote:
    Arne Vajh°j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 12/3/2023 7:56 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    Subcommandante XDelta wrote:

    Does info-VAX keep an archive of the mailing list traffic?

    Neither http://rbnsn.com/pipermail/info-vax_rbnsn.com/ nor
    https://comp.os.vms.narkive.com/ seems to go back to the
    beginning.


    I took over the Info-VAX mailing in 2008 and, unfortunately,
    didn't copy the archives from theprevious owner of the list.

    An archive of Info-VAX from 1996 to 2008 can be found here: >https://theberrymans.com/decus/info-vax/

    Mark Berryman

    Well, isn't that a mighty fine thing? - Thank you for the
    preservation.

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