I had tried to install without networking. But it seemed that even if I unchecked anything network related, the installer would still insist on installing NAPS. I don't recall if I also unchecked everything for
optional components (assistant, WIN-OS/2, etc.) or not. Perhaps one of those things is dragging NAPS in with them.
8--
MPTS/LAPS installation runs a NIC detection, which may be what is
causing the failure. It also edits \CONFIG.SYS after saving the current
one as \CONFIG.MPT before a reboot.
You'll probably be better off NOT installing Network Support at
the start and Selective Install-ing it after successful Base System installation. I can't remember the precise actions necessary, but
you should be able to figure it out.
OS/2 MPTS has a problem with more than about 500 (or 250?) drivers in \ibmcom\macs directory. Not sure if NAPS uses the same broken MPTS code. Check how many drivers you have.
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.misc
I'm running into an odd issue installing OS/2 Warp 4 into QEMU VMs.
The install is stalling at / not progressing past "Installing Network Adapters and
Protocol Services" (NAPS). NAPS makes it to 100%, but the install never goes beyond that.
The VM is still running and has not locked up. The mouse still moves, the spinners in the
install GUI are still spinning, and OS/2 respond gracefully to Control-Alt-Delete.
I've got six different QEMU VMs on two different systems doing this. I've tried with
different emulated NIC types (AMD PC-Net & Realtek 8139 & none), different Adapter Drivers
(NIC specific & IBM NULL MAC), connected and disconnected.
I've never seen anything like this.
I previously did a quite similar install in QEMU but using PCI passthrough to connect an
IBM Token Ring NIC to OS/2 and that seemed to install without problems. (Admittedly, the
errors on boot about the driver not properly loading because the TR NIC is not currently
connected to a MAU. But the install did complete and reboot without errors or stalling.)
Does anybody have any ideas?
On 11/16/19 9:19 AM, Andi B. wrote:
OS/2 MPTS has a problem with more than about 500 (or 250?) drivers in \ibmcom\macs
directory. Not sure if NAPS uses the same broken MPTS code. Check how many drivers you
have.
Intriguing.
However I don't think it's related to the problem I was seeing because this is a fresh
install (booted off of updated install disks, fresh formatted, and nothing else on the
drive). I'd be shocked if the problem that you are talking about existed in a brand new
install. I would think that what you're describing would be much more likely with an
install / update of an existing system that has accumulated drivers / files.
That being said, I've not had my coffee yet, so I'm even more likely to be wrong than usual.
Thank you for the reply Andi.
You said OS/2 W4 which is the original old version. But if you say NAPS
I'm thinking of Alex MPTS frontend which I think was introduced with
some version of eCS. Of course the original W4 CD does not have the
problem I described. As it had to less NIC drivers included to trigger
this problem.
But does it have anything called NAPS? Puzzling.
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.misc
I'm running into an odd issue installing OS/2 Warp 4 into QEMU VMs.
The install is stalling at / not progressing past "Installing Network Adapters and Protocol Services" (NAPS). NAPS makes it to 100%, but the install never goes beyond that.
I've never seen anything like this.
Well the original W4 was rather buggy regarding networking.
Do you have a chance to apply fixpacks /before/ installing network
services? This will likely fix the issue.
8--
There are two options:
- Either apply the fixpacks before MPTS install, e.g. by injecting them
as an ISO image.
- Or create a patched version of the install media. There is a tool
around that can apply fixpacks to install CDs (don't remember the name)
and create a version that installs directly at a fixpack level that is
known to work.
Furthermore I remember that older OS/2 versions do not like to much
memory at install. Restricting to <64MB during install could also help.
I also vaguely remember that installing no network driver including the
null driver caused problems.
It is not that unlikely the only one or even none of the network
adapters of QEMU is supported out of the box. For sure Realtek is not supported. AFAIK the company did not even exist then.
I would start with the AMD (pcnet) type. This might be supported.
And once you get everything running and fixpacks installed upgrade to
E1000 which is well known to work (with additional drivers) and
multiplies the throughput.
I usually do not try plain install. I always use an image of some other installation. This also applies to the VM which is eventually based on
an old 2.1ß installation from '92. So I did not run into the above
pitfalls.
But I have to admit that I am using VBox which is well known to support
OS/2 guests very well, including GUI integration like virtual video and
mouse driver and shared clipboard.
There are two options:
- Either apply the fixpacks before MPTS install, e.g. by injecting
them as an ISO image.
- Or create a patched version of the install media. There is a tool
around that can apply fixpacks to install CDs (don't remember the
name) and create a version that installs directly at a fixpack level
that is known to work.
Maybe I need more coffee first, but I don't see how those two methods
are different. How can I "inject MPTS fixpacks into the ISO" that is
not "create a patched version of the install media"?
I am actually quite curious about how to go about this / these methods.
At this point, it's an academic exercise as I've moved past the original problem of stalling at NAPS. I overcame this hurdle by installing to
FAT instead of HPFS.
Furthermore I remember that older OS/2 versions do not like to much
memory at install. Restricting to <64MB during install could also help.
Hum. I didn't see anything that indicated that there was a problem
related to memory. I did installs (on FAT) into VMs with 128 / 256 /
384 / 512 MB of memory. Plush, the physical box that I'm using has 384
MB of memory. Admittedly, I don't know if OS/2 Warp 4 is using more
than 64 MB of that memory. I don't even know how to check that.
I also vaguely remember that installing no network driver including
the null driver caused problems.
I think I ran into that in the past. I think I worked around it by installing a random (IBM) driver with the intention of placating MPTS so
that it would install.
I was similarly happy when I found IBM's Null Printer driver as I am
dealing with a program (eNetwork Personal Communications 4.3, a.k.a.
PCOMM) that gets cranky if there's not a printer configured.
I would start with the AMD (pcnet) type. This might be supported.
Yes, the AMD PC-Net (10 Mbps) NIC is supported out of the box by OS/2
Warp 4 as released by IBM.
And once you get everything running and fixpacks installed upgrade to
E1000 which is well known to work (with additional drivers) and
multiplies the throughput.
That's good to know.
Question: Do you have any idea if OS/2 supports multi-port NICs? Say a dual / quad port E1000.
Follow up question: Do each of these ports show up as separate
interfaces to TCP/IP Configuration Notebook?
I usually do not try plain install. I always use an image of some
other installation. This also applies to the VM which is eventually
based on an old 2.1ß installation from '92. So I did not run into the
above pitfalls.
Interesting.
But I have to admit that I am using VBox which is well known to
support OS/2 guests very well, including GUI integration like virtual
video and mouse driver and shared clipboard.
Yep. I normally prefer VirtualBox for much of my dynamic virtualization work. I find it to be more flexible and to have better support for the strange things I want to play with and do in the sandbox that is my workstation.
I meant inject into the VM as ISO image in a virtual drive. Without networking there is no other way to transfer large data into a VM.
But if the installer don't let you proceed to a working desktop, this is
not an option.
The second approach creates a new installation media that has fixed
versions of all the files.
Not that pretty, really not.
OS/2 w/o HPFS isn't OS/2.
Plain Warp 4 for sure does not occupy more than a dozen MB. Even the
file system cache is restricted to 2MB as long as you do not install the
32 bit HPFS386 driver. AFAIK 32 MB was recommended as minimum for W4.
But it can use significantly more memory, and it will do so as soon as
you run Firefox. ;-) At least 2GB should be supported, but even FF does
not need that much. For more that 512 MB a recent Fixpack level and
Kernel is required.
There are several tools that show the amount of memory available (FC/2,
XWP, Theseus ...), but I don't know how to do this with builtin tools.
Yes, that could work.
Unfortunately MPTS is broken even more. If you add a new (correct)
driver later w/o Fixpacks applied it tends to write garbage into the
network configuration file PROTOCOL.INI.
Remote printers are also an option. Unix printers using LPR or Samba
printers are supported.
That's a good starting point to get further files into the VM without
too much effort. FTP works as soon as TCP/IP has been configured.
AFAIK yes, but I never tried that.
But as long as we are talking about VMs adding additional network
adapters is much simpler.
If they are configured for TCP/IP, yes.
MPTS does the binding between physical adapters and logical LAN
interfaces. You can bind TCP/IP to any available network adapter as long
as it has a different IP.
As bad the IBM installers always have been as good it works once you got beyond that. If you don't touch an OS/2 system it runs for another decade.
The most important feature for me are headless VMs on a remote server
used via RDP. I use this for daily business including just now and
including OS/2. In contrast to the administration interfaces of most hypervisors VBox is responsive through RDP. You can even play simple real-time games like Widelands.
- Or create a patched version of the install media. There is a tool
around that can apply fixpacks to install CDs (don't remember the name)
and create a version that installs directly at a fixpack level that is
known to work.
Maybe I need more coffee first, but I don't see how those two methods
are different. How can I "inject MPTS fixpacks into the ISO" that is
not "create a patched version of the install media"?
I am actually quite curious about how to go about this / these methods.
That's a good starting point to get further files into the VM without
too much effort. FTP works as soon as TCP/IP has been configured.
ACL
There's always NetBIOS / NetBEUI (I see that IBM uses both names as part
of file names) and traditional SMB networking. Yet another known quantity.
As annoying as SMB networking can be, I think it's going to be slightly better when it comes to automatically copying files around with mounts
(NET USE) than trying to script FTP.
But as long as we are talking about VMs adding additional network
adapters is much simpler.
Ya.
Unfortunately, the VM, even with PCI passthrough, didn't work out as desired. So I'm back to a physical machine.
If they are configured for TCP/IP, yes.
Good. That means that if a multi-port NIC has OS/2 drivers, that each
port will show up as a separate interface. This means that OS/2 can use
one for TCP/IP and OS/390 can use the other one for it's TCP/IP stack.
As bad the IBM installers always have been as good it works once you
got beyond that. If you don't touch an OS/2 system it runs for another
decade.
*nod*
Similar can be said about NetWare.
The most important feature for me are headless VMs on a remote server
used via RDP. I use this for daily business including just now and
including OS/2. In contrast to the administration interfaces of most
hypervisors VBox is responsive through RDP. You can even play simple
real-time games like Widelands.
QEMU has VNC in lieu of RDP. It seemed to work well enough across my LAN.
Look at updcd on Hobbes: http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/system/patches/updcd260.zip .
There was a 261 patch to version 260 but that doesn't seem to be on
Hobbes.
Plain NetBIOS has the main disadvantage that no one else supports it
anymore. With WinXX it was a dirty hack since XP, Samba AFAIR never did.
Sure, but plenty much configuration steps are needed for recent Samba to
get the old LANMAN2 protocol working with weak authentication and no encryption.
And again you need recent networking Fixpacks for OS/2.
However, once it works it is still /very/ reliable. And it is still
possible to connect to recent Samba versions, in my case the one of
Debian Buster. The only thing is, that immediately after installation
FTP is easier to set up to transfer all the Fixpacks (about a dozen
are required).
The alternative to the bultin IBM Peer is Samba for OS/2. But this
requires NetDrive which is not freeware, and in my case it crashed like
a metronome. I never tried it again afterwards.
Is it? For me OS/2 is /much more stable/ since I moved it into a VM
about 8 years ago. But I never did hacks like PCI passthrough.
One moment. You want to share a single physical network adapter from different OS at the same time? This won't work.
Excluding 4.01, please. Up to 3.12 it was solid as a rock.
VNC is slow. You can't work over VNC the way like with local hardware.
There is always some input lag. Very good for remote administration
indeed, but not for daily business.
RDP in contrast is designed to run over even slow WAN connections. And
it is almost as fast as a local PC if using LAN. I use it with a 3k
monitor every day. No visible delay.
On 11/19/19 12:56 AM, Marcel Mueller wrote:
Plain NetBIOS has the main disadvantage that no one else supports it
anymore. With WinXX it was a dirty hack since XP, Samba AFAIR never did.
I'm fairly certain that Samba did support NetBIOS.
Sure, but plenty much configuration steps are needed for recent Samba
to get the old LANMAN2 protocol working with weak authentication and
no encryption.
Maybe. But based on my memory of using Samba years gone by, I don't
think it was that difficult.
And again you need recent networking Fixpacks for OS/2.
I had zero trouble getting OS/2 Warp 4 to talk with OS/2 Warp 4.52. No Fixpacks needed. They talked to each other out of the box.
However, once it works it is still /very/ reliable. And it is still
possible to connect to recent Samba versions, in my case the one of
Debian Buster. The only thing is, that immediately after installation
FTP is easier to set up to transfer all the Fixpacks (about a dozen
are required).
I've not messed with Fixpacks yet. I'm still using what's installed off
of plastic from IBM.
The alternative to the bultin IBM Peer is Samba for OS/2. But this
requires NetDrive which is not freeware, and in my case it crashed
like a metronome. I never tried it again afterwards.
Why would I want Samba for OS/2 when IBM includes the necessary
software? #confused
I've not yet had stability problems with OS/2. Time will tell.
One moment. You want to share a single physical network adapter from
different OS at the same time? This won't work.
Single physical network adapter ≠ single network interface ports.
single physical network adapter with dual ports ≈ two network interface ports.
I want to use one network interface port with OS/2 and the other network interface port with OS/390.
My initial tests with an Intel PRO/1000 MT seem promising. I've got
OS/2 using the first network interface port and things configured for
OS/390 to use the other network interface port. Things seem to be
working, but I need to do considerable more testing to know for sure.
Sure? Not NetBIOS over TCP/IP, also called TCPBEUI?
This has changed. Several default security settings prevent the setup of LANMAN2 sessions. It is not just the protocol level.
Connecting to a Samba Server things change. It starts with the case of
the password. Warp 4 without any Fixpack AFAIR converts the password
silently to upper case which usually ends up with access denied.
And you are connected to a Samba 4 server?
- Samba for OS/2 can connect to Windows as well. IBM Peer cannot connect
to recent Windows versions anymore, not even with all Fixpacks.
- Samba for OS/2 has large file support (>2GB).
- Samba for OS/2 supports encryption.
- Samba for OS/2 can connect to a server without weakening security to a level close to zero.
Yes, but usually only one chipset with common registers and/or resources managed by only one driver.
I would really wonder if that works. PCI passthrough cannot map the same
PCI device to different VMs at the same time.
Does this card register as multiple PCI devices? If yes then you likely
will succeed.
The alternative to the bultin IBM Peer is Samba for OS/2. But this
requires NetDrive which is not freeware, and in my case it crashed like
a metronome. I never tried it again afterwards.
I want to use one network interface port with OS/2 and the other network interface port with OS/390.
My initial tests with an Intel PRO/1000 MT seem promising. I've got
OS/2 using the first network interface port and things configured for
OS/390 to use the other network interface port. Things seem to be
working, but I need to do considerable more testing to know for sure.
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