• DOS Multi-tasking Environment?

    From Harry Potter@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 23 14:23:27 2019
    I am looking to run multiple programs at the time on a DOS laptop. What program online can do that, and where can I find it?

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sat Nov 23 16:28:01 2019
    On 11/23/19 3:23 PM, Harry Potter wrote:
    I am looking to run multiple programs at the time on a DOS laptop.
    What program online can do that, and where can I find it?

    MS-DOS Shell had a multi-tasking feature.

    I don't recall the particulars. Something about task switching and / or
    task swapping. I think one was time slicing between multiple programs
    in a way that seemed like they were running concurrently and the other
    switched to only the selected program while suspending the other programs.

    Quarterdeck had DESQview.

    IBM had TopView.

    I'm sure there were others.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From T. Ment@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sat Nov 23 23:21:33 2019
    On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 14:23:27 -0800 (PST), Harry Potter wrote:

    I am looking to run multiple programs at the time on a DOS laptop.
    What program online can do that, and where can I find it?

    Maybe this:

    https://winworldpc.com/product/real-32/7x

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  • From Kerr-Mudd,John@21:1/5 to gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net on Sun Nov 24 10:41:20 2019
    On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:28:01 GMT, Grant Taylor
    <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

    On 11/23/19 3:23 PM, Harry Potter wrote:
    I am looking to run multiple programs at the time on a DOS laptop.
    What program online can do that, and where can I find it?

    MS-DOS Shell had a multi-tasking feature.

    I don't recall the particulars. Something about task switching and /
    or task swapping. I think one was time slicing between multiple
    programs in a way that seemed like they were running concurrently and
    the other switched to only the selected program while suspending the
    other programs.

    Quarterdeck had DESQview.

    IBM had TopView.

    I'm sure there were others.



    I suspect that Mr Potter's requirements would be best met with a newer
    laptop; one capable of running a multi-tasking OS.


    --
    Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

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  • From Harry Potter@21:1/5 to John on Sun Nov 24 04:40:43 2019
    On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 5:41:21 AM UTC-5, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
    I suspect that Mr Potter's requirements would be best met with a newer laptop; one capable of running a multi-tasking OS.

    Well, it *does* run Win3.1. I will try T. Ment's suggestion. I used to have DOS shell. It can do what I need it to do: switch between tasks. I don't think I have it anymore. :(

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  • From Harry Potter@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 05:24:43 2019
    On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 7:40:44 AM UTC-5, Harry Potter wrote:
    Well, it *does* run Win3.1. I will try T. Ment's suggestion. I used to have DOS shell. It can do what I need it to do: switch between tasks. I don't think I have it anymore. :(

    I downloaded DOSSHELL. I can't get graphics mode or change colors, though, and prefer Star Commander, a Norton Commander clone.

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  • From Harry Potter@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 05:44:34 2019
    On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 8:24:44 AM UTC-5, Harry Potter wrote:
    I downloaded DOSSHELL. I can't get graphics mode or change colors, though, and prefer Star Commander, a Norton Commander clone.

    When I try to open a program with muti-tasking enabled, I get an error message stating that the computer couldn't load command.com or dosswap.exe. What's wrong?

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to John on Sun Nov 24 08:59:58 2019
    On 11/24/19 3:41 AM, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
    I suspect that Mr Potter's requirements would be best met with a
    newer laptop; one capable of running a multi-tasking OS.

    Likely.

    But he asked a legitimate question in a reasonable manner. Seeing as I
    had an answer to his question, I saw no reason to withhold it.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 09:02:02 2019
    On 11/24/19 5:40 AM, Harry Potter wrote:
    Well, it *does* run Win3.1. I will try T. Ment's suggestion.
    I used to have DOS shell. It can do what I need it to do: switch
    between tasks. I don't think I have it anymore. :(

    I believe that DOS Shell is included with MS-DOS 6.22. It may be on the
    4th optional utilities disk.

    It's my understanding that DOS Shell was introduced in MS-DOS 4.0 and
    included through 6.22.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 09:03:39 2019
    On 11/24/19 6:44 AM, Harry Potter wrote:
    When I try to open a program with muti-tasking enabled, I get an
    error message stating that the computer couldn't load command.com
    or dosswap.exe. What's wrong?

    Unknown.

    I would suspect a PATH issue. I've not run into that particular
    problem. Though I've not used DOS Shell, much less it's multi-tasking
    ability, in 20ish years.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Steve@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Sun Nov 24 16:18:24 2019
    Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:
    On 11/23/19 3:23 PM, Harry Potter wrote:
    I am looking to run multiple programs at the time on a DOS laptop.
    What program online can do that, and where can I find it?

    MS-DOS Shell had a multi-tasking feature.

    I don't recall the particulars. Something about task switching and / or
    task swapping. I think one was time slicing between multiple programs
    in a way that seemed like they were running concurrently and the other >switched to only the selected program while suspending the other programs.

    Quarterdeck had DESQview.

    IBM had TopView.

    I'm sure there were others.


    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    Hi,

    I used TopView, and liked it better than some contemporary
    products. Probably text based. It's been quite a while.

    WordPerfect also had a shell program. Also text based?

    Later products were Windows 3.x and GEM.

    OS/2 can run with a pentium and 16 megabytes of
    memory. And from version 3 on, is probably the best
    MS-DOS multitasker.

    Cheers,

    Steve N.

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  • From T. Ment@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 16:18:22 2019
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 04:40:43 -0800 (PST), Harry Potter wrote:

    On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 5:41:21 AM UTC-5, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:

    I suspect that Mr Potter's requirements would be best met with a newer
    laptop; one capable of running a multi-tasking OS.

    Even a lowly 386 laptop should run IMS REAL/32. It worked for IBM, they licensed it for POS terminals.


    Well, it *does* run Win3.1. I will try T. Ment's suggestion.

    Windows 3.11 is stable when configured right. A virtual memory bug hit
    Pentium and later chips. They fixed it in Windows 98. I can't find the reference now, but it was online at one time. Probably gone now.

    For me, Windows 3.11 is stable without virtual memory. With plenty of
    RAM it's not a problem. If you only have 4 MB, that may not work.

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  • From T. Ment@21:1/5 to Steve on Sun Nov 24 16:45:57 2019
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 16:18:24 GMT, Steve wrote:

    OS/2 can run with a pentium and 16 megabytes of
    memory. And from version 3 on, is probably the best
    MS-DOS multitasker.

    OS/2 is like Frankenstein. A monster. Don't go near it.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 10:19:34 2019
    On 11/24/19 5:40 AM, Harry Potter wrote:
    Well, it *does* run Win3.1.

    If Windows (3.x) is an option, then I'd also consider OS/2 as an option.
    As IBM said "OS/2 is a better DOS than DOS and a better Windows than Windows."



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to T. Ment on Sun Nov 24 10:22:48 2019
    On 11/24/19 9:45 AM, T. Ment wrote:
    OS/2 is like Frankenstein. A monster. Don't go near it.

    Why do you say that?

    I've had quite good luck with OS/2 (Warp 4(.52)).

    I'm also forced to choose between OS/2 and AIX for something I'm doing.
    Seeing as how I don't have an RS/6000 to run AIX on, I'm sort of forced
    to run OS/2.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From T. Ment@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Sun Nov 24 17:29:18 2019
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 10:22:48 -0700, Grant Taylor wrote:

    On 11/24/19 9:45 AM, T. Ment wrote:

    OS/2 is like Frankenstein. A monster. Don't go near it.

    Why do you say that?

    Just look at config.sys.


    I've had quite good luck with OS/2 (Warp 4(.52)).

    I've wasted enough time on OS/2 to know better. Never again.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Steve on Sun Nov 24 10:21:03 2019
    On 11/24/19 9:18 AM, Steve wrote:
    … GEM.

    I forgot about GEM.

    I don't think about it, or really know anything about it, as I've never
    run it myself.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to T. Ment on Sun Nov 24 13:21:31 2019
    On 11/24/19 10:29 AM, T. Ment wrote:
    Just look at config.sys.

    That's a non-answer.

    Why do you think OS/2 / it's config.sys file is like Frankenstein?

    I've personally had effectively no problems with OS/2's config.sys file,
    or editing it.

    At least it's a text file that can be simply edited compared to the
    Windows registry.

    I've wasted enough time on OS/2 to know better. Never again.

    To each his / her own.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Sjouke Burry@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Sun Nov 24 22:01:19 2019
    On 24.11.19 14:44, Harry Potter wrote:
    On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 8:24:44 AM UTC-5, Harry Potter wrote:
    I downloaded DOSSHELL. I can't get graphics mode or change colors, though, and prefer Star Commander, a Norton Commander clone.

    When I try to open a program with muti-tasking enabled, I get an error message stating that the computer couldn't load command.com or dosswap.exe. What's wrong?

    It belongs to a certain dos version.
    Searching old disk images, i found one with dos5.00, together with
    about 8 support files.
    That image was from an old computer, not installed by us.
    We never installed that piece of shell software.

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  • From Steve@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Sun Nov 24 20:33:13 2019
    Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:
    On 11/24/19 9:18 AM, Steve wrote:
    … GEM.

    I forgot about GEM.

    I don't think about it, or really know anything about it, as I've never
    run it myself.

    Hi Grant,

    Like TopView competed (sort of) with Windows 1, GEM was a
    Windows 2 competitor. Though I mostly used GEM programs
    ported to Windows 3. GEM was also supposed to be multi-platform.

    Regards,

    Steve N.

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  • From Steve@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Sun Nov 24 20:35:47 2019
    In <qree9q$2qn$3@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:
    On 11/24/19 9:45 AM, T. Ment wrote:
    OS/2 is like Frankenstein. A monster. Don't go near it.

    Why do you say that?

    I've had quite good luck with OS/2 (Warp 4(.52)).

    I'm also forced to choose between OS/2 and AIX for something I'm doing. >Seeing as how I don't have an RS/6000 to run AIX on, I'm sort of forced
    to run OS/2.

    Hi,

    Interesting. What sort of project? I am still using
    OS/2 at times, so if I can add support?

    Regards,

    Steve N.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Steve on Sun Nov 24 19:12:07 2019
    On 11/24/19 1:35 PM, Steve wrote:
    Hi,

    Hi,

    Interesting. What sort of project?

    I have an old PCI card that is an IBM System/390 Processor Complex (CPU
    & main memory). It is highly specialized and was only supported under
    OS/2 Warp (3 / 4) and AIX 4.<something>.

    The card and software go very much hand in hand.

    I am still using OS/2 at times, so if I can add support?

    The software seems to be happy in OS/2 Warp 4.52 (Warp Server for
    e-business). I'm guessing it would also be happy in eComStation and /
    or ArcaOS. (I've not tried … yet.)



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Paul Bartlett@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Mon Nov 25 08:14:49 2019
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2019, Grant Taylor wrote:

    On 11/24/19 5:40 AM, Harry Potter wrote:
    Well, it *does* run Win3.1. I will try T. Ment's suggestion. I used to
    have DOS shell. It can do what I need it to do: switch between tasks. I >> don't think I have it anymore. :(

    I believe that DOS Shell is included with MS-DOS 6.22. It may be on the 4th optional utilities disk.

    It's my understanding that DOS Shell was introduced in MS-DOS 4.0 and included through 6.22.

    I had an MS-DOS 5 machine, and DOS Shell was included already
    installed. I never really used it, but I got the idea that it was task switching, not truly multitasking. But that was years ago, and I could
    be wrong.

    --
    Paul Bartlett

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  • From Harry Potter@21:1/5 to Paul Bartlett on Mon Nov 25 07:38:38 2019
    On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 8:14:51 AM UTC-5, Paul Bartlett wrote:
    I had an MS-DOS 5 machine, and DOS Shell was included already
    installed. I never really used it, but I got the idea that it was task switching, not truly multitasking. But that was years ago, and I could
    be wrong.

    AFAIR, it *was* task-switching, but that's good enough for me. :)

    BTW, I don't like DOSShell: it looks kind of ugly, and the UI is not the best.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Mon Nov 25 11:07:09 2019
    On 11/25/19 8:38 AM, Harry Potter wrote:
    AFAIR, it *was* task-switching, but that's good enough for me. :)

    See previous reply.

    BTW, I don't like DOSShell: it looks kind of ugly, and the UI is not
    the best.

    To each his / her own.

    You asked about ""multi-tasking options. MS-DOS Shell is decidedly on
    that list.

    You are free to have your own opinion of each list member.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Paul Bartlett on Mon Nov 25 11:02:19 2019
    On 11/25/19 6:14 AM, Paul Bartlett wrote:
    I had an MS-DOS 5 machine, and DOS Shell was included already
    installed. I never really used it, but I got the idea that it was
    task switching, not truly multitasking. But that was years ago,
    and I could be wrong.

    I seem to recall that MS-DOS Shell had two modes of multi-tasking; task switching, and task swapping. I don't recall the specifics of the
    differences.

    I think one would time slice between programs (switching?) and the other
    would simply change between the foreground program when the user changed (swapping?).

    I'd have to dig out my MS-DOS book to look it up. Or check the help
    included with MS-DOS Shell.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Paul Bartlett@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Mon Nov 25 19:11:06 2019
    On Mon, 25 Nov 2019, Grant Taylor wrote:

    On 11/25/19 6:14 AM, Paul Bartlett wrote:
    I had an MS-DOS 5 machine, and DOS Shell was included already
    installed. I never really used it, but I got the idea that it was
    task switching, not truly multitasking. But that was years ago,
    and I could be wrong.

    I seem to recall that MS-DOS Shell had two modes of multi-tasking; task switching, and task swapping. I don't recall the specifics of the differences.

    I think one would time slice between programs (switching?) and the other would simply change between the foreground program when the user changed (swapping?).

    I'd have to dig out my MS-DOS book to look it up. Or check the help
    included with MS-DOS Shell.

    I found an old DOS 5 manual and looked in the chapter of DOSShell.
    There is a section on emabling and using Task Swapper, but I don't see
    anything on task switching. To be honest, I'm not sure just what the
    difference is, if any. But it does not seem to b e multitasking.

    --
    Paul Bartlett

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  • From Harry Potter@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 26 04:34:22 2019
    BTW, I keep getting an error message stating that COMMAND.COM or DOSSWAP.EXE is not found whenever I try to multi-task. :( Also, I *really* want to use graphics mode and change color schemes, but the options are not available for some reason. :(

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Harry Potter on Tue Nov 26 10:33:11 2019
    On 11/26/19 5:34 AM, Harry Potter wrote:
    BTW, I keep getting an error message stating that COMMAND.COM or
    DOSSWAP.EXE is not found whenever I try to multi-task. :( Also,
    I *really* want to use graphics mode and change color schemes, but
    the options are not available for some reason. :(

    That sounds like a PATH variable problem.

    The graphics aren't much different than the text. The main thing that I
    recall is the disk drive buttons may have a little disk next to them. I
    think the arrows for things might be slightly different. The program
    groups / icons may be slightly different. I don't recall it being
    anything fancy.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Paul Bartlett on Tue Nov 26 10:35:26 2019
    On 11/25/19 5:11 PM, Paul Bartlett wrote:
    I found an old DOS 5 manual and looked in the chapter of DOSShell.
    There is a section on emabling and using Task Swapper, but I don't
    see anything on task switching. To be honest, I'm not sure just what
    the difference is, if any. But it does not seem to b e multitasking.

    Okay.

    I'm going to take your word for it. It's been WAY TOO LONG and I could
    be conflating the modes with something else.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Kerr-Mudd,John@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 5 16:45:49 2020
    On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 16:18:22 GMT, T. Ment <t.ment@protocol.invalid>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 04:40:43 -0800 (PST), Harry Potter wrote:

    On Sunday, November 24, 2019 at 5:41:21 AM UTC-5, Kerr-Mudd,John
    wrote:

    I suspect that Mr Potter's requirements would be best met with a
    newer
    laptop; one capable of running a multi-tasking OS.

    Even a lowly 386 laptop should run IMS REAL/32. It worked for IBM, they licensed it for POS terminals.


    Well, it *does* run Win3.1. I will try T. Ment's suggestion.

    Windows 3.11 is stable when configured right. A virtual memory bug hit Pentium and later chips. They fixed it in Windows 98. I can't find the reference now, but it was online at one time. Probably gone now.

    For me, Windows 3.11 is stable without virtual memory. With plenty of
    RAM it's not a problem. If you only have 4 MB, that may not work.

    Back then the mantra was: 4M good 2M bad.



    --
    Bah, and indeed, Humbug.

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