Why does the ... world prefer Python to Perl?
This place is wasteful. It is like a drinking parlor. You go there
everyday and drink and joke and curse and argue, but in the background,
it is making you an alcoholic, making you drift.
With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
just beyond my reach.
I think, if I had not relied on COLA to provide help on these matters,
by now, I'd be months into fruitful learning of ... probably C++ and
into several exciting programming projects.
I suppose it saved typing a few characters but I never could keep $_,
@_, $$, $!, $@ and so forth straight.
To run it:
1) install Python
2) install PyQt 5
With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
just beyond my reach.
With Python, everything I did made sense.
You know, I first gathered my energy to go after the good old C language
to freshen myself up with it, then I turned to assembly language cause
you said so as "a sage advice", then I found out my general questions
would be better answered if I learned hoc, then my general questions
made a turn, and I was left with chances that the best language for me
at the time was the good old C again; then on checking out Go and taking
Ken Thompson's words for it, I let C go and began preparing to go after
Go. And now, you're saying if we don't choose Perl we're brain-starved.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:24:54 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
With Perl, there was always this feeling of unplumbed depths, subtleties
just beyond my reach.
With Python, everything I did made sense.
You have more or less just paraphrased what was atated in the original
post.
Since I learned assembly language way before anything else Perl is the
more natural language for me. OO tends to appeal to those who can't see
the machine.
This is why the only acceptable language to use is lean4. Embrace purely functional programming!
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:55:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
To run it:
1) install Python
2) install PyQt 5
I've been using PySide6.
There are some minor differences with signals but
otherwise it is the same. I think PySide is now the 'official' approach. I think I've mentioned the pissing contest with Riverside over GPL versus
LGPL that gave rise to PySide.
One caveat: there is a line you can add that allows for more 'Pythonic' function conventions,
from typing import Optional
so you can say
self.set_layout(layout)
rather than
self.setLayout(layout)
It might be more Pythonic and all that good stuff but it is not completely implemented and some things still have to be camel case so I stopped
trying to use it.
I think, if I had not relied on COLA to provide help on these matters,
by now, I'd be months into fruitful learning of ... probably C++ and
into several exciting programming projects.
This place is wasteful. It is like a drinking parlor. You go there
everyday and drink and joke and curse and argue, but in the background,
it is making you an alcoholic, making you drift.
Embrace purely functional programming!
What is programming?
What is programming? Programming is the controlling of a digital computer. That's all.
Therefore, in order to program one must first learn about the machine. One must first learn about logic gates, Boolean algebra, etc. Then one must learn machine language instructions.
After this, one can, for the sake of convenience, proceed to "higher
level" abstractions, i.e. a language like C. But any of these high
level languages do not actually control the machine. These abstractions
must be processed by compilers to produce actual machine-control instructions.
Unfortunately, a lot (most?) so called programmers know very little about digital hardware.
When I first took CompSci 101, I already had a deep background in assembly and I watched as the other students, who didn't have this background, stumbled over such things as character case conversions and pointers.
C is fairly low level. It does not completely obliterate the machine.
But other languages have succeeded to totally obscure the hardware and
it is these languages that are the most popular.
In fact, most programmers
don't program. They will use frameworks that literally produce the code
for them. (They'll get paid big bucks until the framework falls out of fashion. Then they'll end up at McDonalds because they have no REAL programing skills.)
In conclusion:
Learn the machine and learn assembly. Then proceed to the conventional abstract languages.
For now, I've made my mind,
and even have started the "learning curve" if such a thing exists for
qb64 :-)))
That'll do fine for baby problems, which I'm going to continue posting
to sci.physics as a blog.
Hmm... I'm not that dedicated to the task. For now, I've made my mind,
and even have started the "learning curve" if such a thing exists for
qb64 :-)))
That'll do fine for baby problems
On 3/20/2024 12:23 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2024 22:55:03 -0400, DFS wrote:
To run it:
1) install Python
2) install PyQt 5
I've been using PySide6.
Work or play?
Just learn Python and C side-by-side. Write a routine in one and
duplicate it in the other. It's enjoyable and educational.
After I learned enough python, I started working on the same problems
with C. C executes 5x to 10x faster than Python, but requires 3x to 5x
the amt of time and code. Note: you will NEVER recoup the extra C development time with savings in program execution time.
I'm looking at some C code using the OpenSSL
library to connect to a host/port, do a HTTPS transaction. and return
the result. There's a generous amout of error checking and handling and
it's 84 lines rather than 1.
The sniipets aren't long but he goes into list comprehension,
decorators, some of the more obscure dunders, setting up classes with
class variables,
instance variables, and static functions using decorators, why you might
want to do so, and how they work.
Therefore, in order to program one must first learn about the machine.
One must first learn about logic gates, Boolean algebra, etc. Then one
must learn machine language instructions.
Since I learned assembly language way before anything else Perl is the
more natural language for me. OO tends to appeal to those who can't see
the machine.
“Real programmers can write assembly code in any language.”
― Larry Wall
I showed the manager/programmer a book I'd bought on video processing.
It showed sample assembler code using C function-calling conventions
(push bp; mov bp,sp; add stack size to bp; run code; pop bp IIRC). He
called the code "obtuse". :-D
I could see the logic and
how it worked although my brain kept asking 'why would anyone in their
right mind do it this way?'
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:46:59 +0530, Yaxley Peaks wrote:
Embrace purely functional programming!
Purely-functional programming’s dirty little secret is that I/O cannot
be expressed in a purely-functional way.
This came from a famous item in “Datamation” magazine,
entitled “Real Programmers Don’t Eat Quiche”.
Sorting was awkward since I didn't want the time to be used.
This is why the only acceptable language to use is lean4. Embrace purely dysfunctional programming!
Hmm... I'm not that dedicated to the task. For now, I've made my mind,
and even have started the "learning curve" if such a thing exists for
qb64 :-)))
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 22:53:54 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:46:59 +0530, Yaxley Peaks wrote:
Embrace purely functional programming!
Purely-functional programming’s dirty little secret is that I/O cannot
be expressed in a purely-functional way.
Hence 'common lisp'. Lisp descended from the rarefied atmosphere of
academia to mingle with the commoners that wanted to actually do something with their dirty little paws.
The original Pascal was only good for telling itself secrets before hoi polloi got their mitts on it too.
On 21 Mar 2024 06:29:02 GMT, rbowman wrote:
I could see the logic and
how it worked although my brain kept asking 'why would anyone in their
right mind do it this way?'
Try doing it in some more conventional language like Java or C♯, and you will soon appreciate some of the wonders of the Lisps.
Oh, by the way, there is a JavaScript edition available now, created at
the National University of Singapore.
You already know the arithmetic (or most of it). So start with
the logic tables:
The Cakewalk Application Language (CAL) was very
Lispy.
Turbo Pascal was better ...
I think, if I had not relied on COLA to provide help on these matters,
by now, I'd be months into fruitful learning of ... probably C++ and
into several exciting programming projects.
On 21 Mar 2024 05:36:18 GMT, rbowman wrote:
I'm looking at some C code using the OpenSSL library to connect to a
host/port, do a HTTPS transaction. and return the result. There's a
generous amout of error checking and handling and it's 84 lines rather
than 1.
You can do it in Python, leave most of the error checking to the default settings, and end up with maybe a dozen lines of code.
Does he mention descriptors? They are rather key to understanding how instance/class/static method dispatching works (and properties).
Does he talk about metaclasses? There is one use of them in the standard library (that I’m aware of), and I recently came up with another one.
On 21 Mar 2024 06:29:02 GMT, rbowman wrote:
I could see the logic and how it worked although my brain kept asking
'why would anyone in their right mind do it this way?'
Try doing it in some more conventional language like Java or C♯, and you will soon appreciate some of the wonders of the Lisps.
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:23:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
You didn’t notice that Python’s sorting functions allow you to specify >> a callback function to define the sort key?
I make no claims to being a Python expert.
Turbo Pascal was better, but I really got into Turbo C.
As I worked through the exercises I was mentally
calculating how I would do it in C.
If you want to talk about lexical oddities, there's the 73 stacked up
parens.
I shouldn't be so snotty.
After all I used Forth back in the day and threaded interpreted
languages are a wonder to behold.
Yes you can, but my point was somebody else did all the grunt work to
allow you to do it in a few lines of Python. TANSTAAFL.
On 21 Mar 2024 06:01:16 GMT, rbowman wrote:
Sorting was awkward since I didn't want the time to be used.
You didn’t notice that Python’s sorting functions allow you to specify a callback function to define the sort key?
[Metaclasses] are another bit of Python magic that most people
should leave well alone.
Sorry, not quite. The article was entitled “Real Programmers Don’t Use Pascal”, and it was a sendup of a book that was doing the rounds at the time, called “Real Men Don’t Eat Quiche”.
Obviously because Pascal was considered the programming-language
equivalent of quiche.
Any idea why IMP behaves like that?
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:45:13 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Cakewalk Application Language (CAL) was very
Lispy.
Was it like Autolisp, in making you suffer the Lisp syntax without the
cool stuff like AST-based macros and lexical binding? In short, the worst
of both worlds?
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:31:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 21 Mar 2024 06:29:02 GMT, rbowman wrote:
I could see the logic and how it worked although my brain kept asking
'why would anyone in their right mind do it this way?'
Try doing it in some more conventional language like Java or C♯, and you >> will soon appreciate some of the wonders of the Lisps.
No, I would not. As I worked through the exercises I was mentally
calculating how I would do it in C. Lisp is very much an acquired taste.
If you want to talk about lexical oddities, there's the 73 stacked up
parens. Vim will match them up but still... Then there is 'car' and 'cdr' which iirc were assembler instructions on a computer that was last seen in
an archaeological dig next to a partial brontosaurus skull.
I shouldn't be so snotty. After all I used Forth back in the day and
threaded interpreted languages are a wonder to behold. I met Chuck Moore
at a Forth conference and if you've done that you can understand the language.
https://colorforth.github.io/bio.html
He learned Lisp and it damaged him for life.
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:36:35 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Turbo Pascal was better, but I really got into Turbo C.
I bought Turbo Pascal for CP/M when it first came out. How could you go
wrong for $50? I thought it was broken after the first hello world
experiment since I was used to the leisurely BDS C compilations.
I never did get Turbo C but I did get the C++/OWL IDE. I liked it and in
the early '90s it wasn't clear Microsoft was going to be the 800 pound gorilla. I wasn't that fond of MFC but what are you going to do? In their defense a C++ standard was years in the future so they rolled their own.
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 06:04:13 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Does he mention descriptors? They are rather key to understanding how
instance/class/static method dispatching works (and properties).
Yes. He also stresses that Python classes depend on a tacit agreement for everyone to play nice.
Does he talk about metaclasses? There is one use of them in the standard
library (that I’m aware of), and I recently came up with another one.
He hasn't yet. They are another bit of Python magic that most people
should leave well alone. That's another of the recurring themes.
'Sometimes you can do this and it really makes sense. Most of the times it doesn't so use it sparingly.) That's refreshing after some of the C++ tutorials that lead you to believe you have to use every obscure feature every time.
IMP
0 IMP 0 = 1
0 IMP 1 = 1
1 IMP 0 = 0
1 IMP 1 = 1
How can that be explained?...
I'd love to see these C++/Python/Whatever jockeys attemptbad strawman, Feeb.
to control a nuclear power plant or a military fighter
aircraft with their piddling "classes." They would only
recoil in horror.
When I worked at the VA, we had a fancy audiometer that had Forth built
into it.
Later, I used a MIDI editor for the Atari ST, called "EditTrack", which
I believe was written in Forth. I met the authors at small Atari
Convention in North Hollywood. (Also saw IIRC Paul Haslinger showing
off some music from "Risky Business", and a talk by a tall, dour Mick Fleetwood.)
On 22 Mar 2024 01:43:02 GMT, rbowman wrote:
As I worked through the exercises I was mentally calculating how I
would do it in C.
C doesn’t put call frames on the heap, or even allow nested functions
(as standard), so I don’t know how you would handle closures.
I always follow the advice of Bjarne Stroupstrup and Scott Meyers.
On 3/22/2024 10:18 AM, Pathetic Piet wrote:
I'd love to see these C++/Python/Whatever jockeys attempt to control abad strawman, Feeb.
nuclear power plant or a military fighter aircraft with their piddling
"classes." They would only recoil in horror.
From what I've read, lots of avionics, RTOS and embedded code is
written in C++ (and Ada).
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dynamics-of-software/9780735623194/
The author of this Microsoft book crowed and crowed about how they
kicked Borland's ass.
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 08:58:36 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I always follow the advice of Bjarne Stroupstrup and Scott Meyers.
I haven't seen the latest edition of 'The C++ Programming Language' but
the edition I have looks a lot like C. With classes of course :)
Part of the problem was many of the early C++ books were based on the Microsoft implementation, bought into Hungarian notation, and went
overboard with what you could do leading people to believe they should do
it all the time, if that makes sense. And the dog says 'woof' unless he's
a doberman that says 'grrrr'.
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 11:09:28 -0400, DFS wrote:
On 3/22/2024 10:18 AM, Pathetic Piet wrote:
I'd love to see these C++/Python/Whatever jockeys attempt to control abad strawman, Feeb.
nuclear power plant or a military fighter aircraft with their piddling
"classes." They would only recoil in horror.
From what I've read, lots of avionics, RTOS and embedded code is
written in C++ (and Ada).
Yeah, the F-35 software must be written in Ada :)
IMP
0 IMP 0 = 1
0 IMP 1 = 1
1 IMP 0 = 0
1 IMP 1 = 1
How can that be explained?...
C plus classes, templates, operator overloading, move constructors, range-based for loops, lambdas, namespaces, containers, threads and
mutexes,
promises and futures...
I had an interview in San Diego that wound down rapidly when he asked
'Do you know WXYZ?' and I said 'No.'
"If you mean onboard avionics and guidance systems, a lot of Ada is
used, particularly by the US military, and C and numerous “specialty” languages would also be used."
It pains me to say it but MS has gotten much more civilized over the
years.
Forth had it's uses. The core language with its RPN and heavily stack oriented approach was arcane.
However you could develop a domain
specific set of words so what the user typed in was very close to a
natural language sentence.
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 02:06:08 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 22 Mar 2024 01:43:02 GMT, rbowman wrote:
As I worked through the exercises I was mentally calculating how I
would do it in C.
C doesn’t put call frames on the heap, or even allow nested functions
(as standard), so I don’t know how you would handle closures.
You don't. You look at the task at hand and figure out how you would get
the same result in C, not try to follow Lisp's technique.
A vast amount of software has been written with imperative programming.
I'm not saying the task can't be accomplished with functional
programming,
only that it does not have to be done with a functional language.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 10:45:13 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The Cakewalk Application Language (CAL) was very
Lispy.
Was it like Autolisp, in making you suffer the Lisp syntax without the
cool stuff like AST-based macros and lexical binding? In short, the worst
of both worlds?
Dunno. I suspect Greg Hendershott used basic Lisp syntax because it was easy to
code.
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 23:20:47 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On 22 Mar 2024 17:47:14 GMT, rbowman wrote:
It pains me to say it but MS has gotten much more civilized over the
years.
Their motives haven’t changed, only their ability.
They used to be a technically inferior organization with massive
marketing capabilities. Nowadays the marketing machine is increasingly
looking out of touch.
WSL, and the cross platform VS Code and .NET are a long way from the
Steve 'Linux is a cancer' Ballmer days.
On 22 Mar 2024 17:47:14 GMT, rbowman wrote:
It pains me to say it but MS has gotten much more civilized over the
years.
Their motives haven’t changed, only their ability.
They used to be a technically inferior organization with massive
marketing capabilities. Nowadays the marketing machine is increasingly looking out of touch.
Yeah. I grew up in the shade of WRGB.
On 22 Mar 2024 23:16:20 GMT, rbowman wrote:
I had an interview in San Diego that wound down rapidly when he asked
'Do you know WXYZ?' and I said 'No.'
It was a trick question. Aren’t TV stations beginning with “W” supposed to be from the East side of the USA? And ones on the West side begin
with “K”?
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 23:29:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
While both Forth and PostScript belong in a museum now, at least
PostScript had some interesting language ideas that could be revived.
Shades of Don Lancaster.
https://www.tinaja.com/pssamp1.shtml
I didn't realize he died last year. He did love PostScript.
I always follow the advice of Bjarne Stroupstrup and Scott Meyers.
You could do similar things in PostScript, which was a more advanced
version of the Forth idea.
While both Forth and PostScript belong in a museum now, at least
PostScript had some interesting language ideas that could be revived.
IMP
0 IMP 0 = 1
0 IMP 1 = 1
1 IMP 0 = 0
1 IMP 1 = 1
How can that be explained?...
There we go again. I spend half hour concocting a new baby problem based
on that, then after posting it I see you've already given the answer for everybody here to see...
rbowman wrote:
It pains me to say it but MS has gotten much more civilized over the
years.
Their motives havent changed, only their ability.
They used to be a technically inferior organization with massive marketing >capabilities. Nowadays the marketing machine is increasingly looking out
of touch.
On Fri, 22 Mar 2024 08:58:36 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I always follow the advice of Bjarne Stroupstrup and Scott Meyers.
Aren’t we glad they never got their sticky little fingers in the design of Python ...
I have some quite complex examples I could show you, but they’re in
Python. I’m not sure if you can handle them.
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dynamics-of-software/9780735623194/
The author of this Microsoft book crowed and crowed about how they kicked Borland's ass.
IMP
0 IMP 0 = 1
0 IMP 1 = 1
1 IMP 0 = 0
1 IMP 1 = 1
How can that be explained?...
A => ~B: false
Obviously, if a number is prime it cannot be not odd, that is,
if a number is in set A (prime) it cannot be in set ~B (even
numbers).
On 3/22/2024 4:04 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2024 21:01:30 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
IMP
0 IMP 0 = 1
0 IMP 1 = 1
1 IMP 0 = 0
1 IMP 1 = 1
How can that be explained?...
A = "If it is raining"
B = "The sky is cloudy"
The only way that A => B is false is if A is true and B
is false.
There we go again. I spend half hour concocting a new baby problem based
on that, then after posting it I see you've already given the answer for everybody here to see...
Your description and the example you brought are pretty good. Not a
single one of the other COLA members would be able to post such a
convincing answer. I hope this tells those idiots something about how
they treat you here.
Cairo is a more modern 2D graphics engine, going beyond the limitationsexamples>.
of PostScript. Couple that with a more advanced language like Python,
and you can do some neat stuff. I have some examples,
with links to code, here <https://www.deviantart.com/default-cube/gallery/53606552/qahirah-
But it is best to avoid explanations with words. Let the mathematics be
the guide.
On 23 Mar 2024 02:52:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:
Yeah. I grew up in the shade of WRGB.
Was there a KCMY?
Never heard of the IMP operator, and I can't find any reference to it in assembly programming.
But, what is wrong with taking the absence of a condition as a condition
of its own, and not as the negated form of that condition?
From what I've read, lots of avionics, RTOS and embedded code is
written in C++ (and Ada).
Le 22-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
From what I've read, lots of avionics, RTOS and embedded code is
written in C++ (and Ada).
I never heard about C++ in embedded code for avionics (which doesn't
mean it doesn't exist). But for ADA, yes, it's really used.
The second and fourth cases should both be false, not true.
In the second case (~A => B), non-prime isn't necessarily odd, and
therefore ~A does _not_ imply B, so result is false, not true.
The second case, again, says, if a number is prime could it
be even? The answer is "no" and hence false.
Meh. I have never found another language with the power and flexibility
of C++. Not Java, not C#, and not Python.
Linux lusers have been - feverishly and fruitlessly - trying to kick
MS's ass for decades.
On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 17:11:00 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
The second and fourth cases should both be false, not true.You are reading it wrong.
In the second case (~A => B), non-prime isn't necessarily odd, and
therefore ~A does _not_ imply B, so result is false, not true.
The second case, again, says, if a number is prime could it be even?
The answer is "no" and hence false.
(A AND B) = (B AND A), and (A OR B) = (B OR A). They commute, so to
speak. But (A IMP B) doesn't commute. How would computer distinguish
between A and B then? Does it look at the ordering to see what comes
first as it goes from left to right, and gives the role of A to that
one? In that case The programmer needs to damn well know which one of
the condition he places to the left of IMP and which one to the right!
This is a new situation.
Would be nice to find when and where the use of "IMP" appeared first,
and by whom. It must've been a programming language book, and not a math book.
Indians were great mathematicians before any other nations began doing
math. Today, they of course attribute to Kharazmi the first book on
algebra and, in fact, inventing it. But I'm not sure of that myself. Not knowing how much Kharazmi borrowed from Indians, leaves some degree of
doubt in me about him being the inventor of Algebra. An expert in the
Indian older languages, who also has math background is required to see
into this to make sure it was, first, Kharazmi who did it, or it was
being done before him in India.
But, I have a feeling that 20 years from now you won't find a shred of evidence that this important role of bringing the Indian knowledge in
math into countries to the west of India was performed by no other
person than Kharazmi. The evidence is still here, but will most probably
not be here in 20 years. Arab money employs Satan to do what Arabs want history to say. Kharazmi was no Arab.
Also interesting: https://opensource.com/life/16/8/python-vs-cc-embedded-systems
On 3/22/2024 9:01 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dynamics-of-software/9780735623194/ >>
The author of this Microsoft book crowed and crowed about how they kicked
Borland's ass.
Linux lusers have been - feverishly and fruitlessly - trying to kick
MS's ass for decades.
On 3/23/2024 7:08 PM, Forgetful Feeb wrote:
The second case, again, says, if a number is prime could it
be even? The answer is "no" and hence false.
Try again.
If a number is not prime, then could it be odd? This is the
correct way to to interpret "~A => B." The answer is "yes"
and the condition is true.
Ok, got it at last.
But still some ambiguity remains in my mind.
(A AND B) = (B AND A), and (A OR B) = (B OR A). They commute, so to
speak. But (A IMP B) doesn't commute.
The classic example is recursion. In the abstract realm recursion
seems highly efficient and elegant. But such elegance has to ultimately
be translated into machine code and, at this level, recursion becomes
highly inefficient and even idiotic.
But (A IMP B) doesn't commute.
It does, in a sense. The "opposite" of A => B is ~B => ~A.
Le 23-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
On 3/23/2024 7:08 PM, Forgetful Feeb wrote:
The second case, again, says, if a number is prime could it be even?
The answer is "no" and hence false.
Try again.
Are you really sure 2 is an even prime number?
Le 23-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
On 3/22/2024 9:01 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dynamics-of-software/9780735623194/
The author of this Microsoft book crowed and crowed about how they kicked >>> Borland's ass.
Linux lusers have been - feverishly and fruitlessly - trying to kick
MS's ass for decades.
I did successfully removed everything related to Microsoft on my own computer. That's enough for me. I don't need to interfere with others
ways of using their own computers.
Le 23-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
On 3/23/2024 7:08 PM, Forgetful Feeb wrote:
The second case, again, says, if a number is prime could it
be even? The answer is "no" and hence false.
Try again.
Are you really sure 2 is an even prime number?
On 3/22/2024 9:01 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dynamics-of-software/9780735623194/ >>
The author of this Microsoft book crowed and crowed about how they kicked
Borland's ass.
Linux lusers have been - feverishly and fruitlessly - trying to kick
MS's ass for decades.
On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 08:36:17 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Meh. I have never found another language with the power and flexibility
of C++. Not Java, not C#, and not Python.
Python can do homoiconicity.
DFS wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On 3/22/2024 9:01 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/dynamics-of-software/9780735623194/
The author of this Microsoft book crowed and crowed about how they kicked >>> Borland's ass.
Linux lusers have been - feverishly and fruitlessly - trying to kick
MS's ass for decades.
Tell us again which system dominates the supercomputer market?
Linux has already kicked Microsoft ass :-D
rather than eating humble pie, he (tries to) call
out 'froup denizens who didn't inform him of his mistake.
$ man primes
On 3/24/2024 6:29 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 23-03-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
Linux lusers have been - feverishly and fruitlessly - trying to kick
MS's ass for decades.
I did successfully removed everything related to Microsoft on my own
computer. That's enough for me. I don't need to interfere with others
ways of using their own computers.
What would happen if you tried to put Linux on your work Windows system?
On 3/24/2024 7:54 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
The "opposite" of A => B is ~B => ~A.
"The opposite of" is not the same as switching the sides.
I don't understand what was the motive behind introducing this into programming language. The same singling out is very easily arranged with using an AND operator. "if (A = 1) AND (B = 0) then you get a False".
On 3/24/2024 1:20 PM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 24-03-2024, Physfitfreak <Physfitfreak@gmail.com> a écrit :
On 3/24/2024 7:54 AM, Farley Flud wrote:
The "opposite" of A => B is ~B => ~A.
"The opposite of" is not the same as switching the sides.
So now, do you understand why DFS tells you to never listen to
whatever he says about computers?
Don't try to elevate DFS to the level of my dick. Both you and him are
its groupies, down there, looking up to it. You won't come up to be
there where it is just because you dream of being beside your idols.
What would happen if you tried to put Linux on your work Windows system?
Second, my work computer is not a Windows system. It's a Linux system
with a Windows VM to be able to exchange documents with people outside
my company. Ubuntu and Gnome are not my favorite flavor, but it's way
better than Windows.
On 24 Mar 2024 17:55:54 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Second, my work computer is not a Windows system. It's a Linux system
with a Windows VM to be able to exchange documents with people outside
my company. Ubuntu and Gnome are not my favorite flavor, but it's way
better than Windows.
I have both at work as do all the programmers. Usually when IT updates the Windows boxes they have the boxes from the last update cycle that are perfectly fine for Linux.
Huh... This is a good point. I had never thought of that... Alexander
did get pretty close to India! In fact he occupied the northern part of
India which has recently become Pakestan.
In this topic that we were discussing, I hadn't even paid close
attention to the word "implication". Now that I'm looking more
carefully, I see that it is better than "concurrence" for use in that
type of operation.
What did Greece have?... Did they sit and play with their balls and this
led them to take the next step and devise Euclidean Geometry? Do you see
the picture? Written history aside (which is always full of partiality
and bullshit), the need for math must've arisen elsewhere, either in
Egypt, or in Iran, or in India.
Prediction and knowing of the time of the year also played a role in developing math, and was the result of agricultural needs. Plus,
managing anything that had to do with multitude of men required math.
Men began to be around themselves in great numbers when cities were
first created, again as a result of development of agriculture.
https://qb64phoenix.com/qb64wiki/index.php/IMP
On the rightmost column in the table.
On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 19:09:02 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
Prediction and knowing of the time of the year also played a role in
developing math, and was the result of agricultural needs. Plus,
managing anything that had to do with multitude of men required math.
Men began to be around themselves in great numbers when cities were
first created, again as a result of development of agriculture.
Agriculture was the downfall of the human race. Once you have people
hanging around the same place too long they figure they need a hierarchy
to run the show and the next thing you know you've got the government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_Builders
Some smaller mounds were destroyed by farmers who found it inconvenient to plow them but many remain and I've visited quite a few.
"These cultures generally had developed hierarchical societies that had an elite. These commanded hundreds or even thousands of workers to dig up
tons of earth with the hand tools available, move the soil long distances, and finally, workers to create the shape with layers of soil as directed
by the builders."
So why didn't the poor bastards lugging basketfuls of dirt kill the elite
and barbecue them? Or maybe they did since many of the cultures collapsed before the Europeans arrived with their diseases. There are intrusive
burials by people who figured it was a good place to plant Granny although they had no idea of the original builders or their intent.
Agriculture was the downfall of the human race.
rbowman wrote:
Agriculture was the downfall of the human race.
Here we have an example of a *real* conservative, folks! 8)
Maybe the bullies beguiled them with visions of a happy afterlife?
Human is fucked. We need real AI machines to take over.
Well it says the same thing about AND and OR too, and the two of course
are used every day in high level programming. So there could be a use
for IMP in high level programming also.
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:16:40 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
Well it says the same thing about AND and OR too, and the two of course
are used every day in high level programming. So there could be a use
for IMP in high level programming also.
&, ~, |, << and >> are frequently used in C. ^ is used less frequently.
All map directly to i86 instructions. SAL is the same as SHL where SAR differs from SHR and depends on signed/unsigned. ~ is NOT, 1's complement.
I'm not saying there never has been a use but it hasn't had the masses clamoring for it either in HLL or machine instructions.
That's your new mission. Find a non-trivial use. No long story, no complicated setup.
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:25:07 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
Human is fucked. We need real AI machines to take over.
Can humans develop AIs that are better than humans? It is still very primitive but some of the LLMs have embarrassed their creators.
I've read several dystopian novels like Stanfill's 'The Prophecy of the Heron' but I'm currently reading 'Star Scrapper' which takes a different approach. The protagonist makes a living searching for stellar scrap and finds a cube that turns out to be an AI that has been suspended for
several hundred years. AI is completely illegal and subject to the Inquisition in the current society. When reactivated this cube turns out
to be friendly and helpful, even with a very human sense of humor putting
the protagonist in a quandary.
Pessimistic by nature I see AI going very wrong in the long run. In the
short run I see the current tulip fad going bust leaving a lot of
investors hung out to dry.
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 17:16:40 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
Well it says the same thing about AND and OR too, and the two of course
are used every day in high level programming. So there could be a use
for IMP in high level programming also.
&, ~, |, << and >> are frequently used in C. ^ is used less frequently.
All map directly to i86 instructions. SAL is the same as SHL where SAR
differs from SHR and depends on signed/unsigned. ~ is NOT, 1's complement.
As an aside, C++20 introduces the "spaceship" operator,
operator <=>. It does a three way comparison, a bit like strcmp():
lhs <=> rhs returns an object that
compares <0 if lhs < rhs
compares >0 if lhs > rhs
and compares ==0 if lhs and rhs are equal/equivalent.
Carry on.
I'm not saying there never has been a use but it hasn't had the masses
clamoring for it either in HLL or machine instructions.
That's your new mission. Find a non-trivial use. No long story, no
complicated setup.
As an aside, C++20 introduces the "spaceship" operator,
operator <=>. It does a three way comparison, a bit like strcmp():
As an aside, C++20 introduces the "spaceship" operator,
operator <=>. It does a three way comparison, a bit like strcmp():
On Wed, 27 Mar 2024 12:40:32 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
As an aside, C++20 introduces the "spaceship" operator,
operator <=>. It does a three way comparison, a bit like strcmp():
Our programming group moved recently and in bringing the books to the new location I found a copy of 'Effective C++' 2nd edition that I must have bought back when since it has my name on the fly leaf. Is that still
useful or have there been too many changes? I see his last book if 'Effective Modern C++' but even that one is for C++14.
Moving the books nobody has looked at in years was depressing. Most should have been moved to the dumpster. 'Programming Perl' may still be valid.
I hope C++ doesn't use => for lambdas like C#; that would really be error prone.
Example below. Note the capture of the function parameters.
Alexander [the Great] did get pretty close to India! In fact he occupied
the northern part of India which has recently become [Pakistan].
But there are other evidences against that as well. One is, the heart of Indian math has always been its southern and central regions (Black
people), not its north (Whites).
But a much more recent trend is clearer to see, and the gist of that is
that Church in Europe didn't understand the Greeks' works and either
burned them or hid them ...
I'm saying "Iran" here because you need to note that anything done in
the Arabic language at the height of Islam, were almost entirely
Iranians' works, not Arabs' ...
But agriculture, as creator of math, is at the least 7 thousand years
old!...
Today's geographical spread of language comes to help a bit. Anything non-Semitic that we speak today in, has come from India, from Sanskrit.
The mother of it all. Hindu ...
Agriculture was the downfall of the human race. Once you have people
hanging around the same place too long they figure they need a hierarchy
to run the show and the next thing you know you've got the government.
On 3/25/2024 10:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
Agriculture was the downfall of the human race.
It led to the concept of ownership. Farmers fought pastoral nomads for thousands of years because farmers claimed they "owned" the land with
grass on it, and nomads didn't understand that logic one bit, and had to
feed their livestock with the grass on that land.
Farmers (i.e. settlers) won.
As an aside, C++20 introduces the "spaceship" operator ...
I hope C++ doesn't use => for lambdas like C#; that would really be
error prone.
I read the quote yesterday and have already forgotten the author. It
went like 'The problem with OOP is you want a banana but you get a
gorilla holding the banana and the whole damn jungle.'
Example below. Note the capture of the function parameters.
What would happen if you tried to put Linux on your work Windows system?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 08:36:17 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Meh. I have never found another language with the power and
flexibility of C++. Not Java, not C#, and not Python.
Python can do homoiconicity.
C++ can do template metaprogramming.
On Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:25:07 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
On 3/25/2024 10:56 PM, rbowman wrote:
Agriculture was the downfall of the human race.
It led to the concept of ownership. Farmers fought pastoral nomads for
thousands of years because farmers claimed they "owned" the land with
grass on it, and nomads didn't understand that logic one bit, and had to
feed their livestock with the grass on that land.
Farmers (i.e. settlers) won.
Jacob Bronowski, in “The Ascent Of Man”:
Genghiz Khan was a nomad and the inventor of a powerful war
machine. And that conjunction says something important about the
origins of war in human history. Of course, it’s tempting to close
one’s eyes to history, and instead to speculate about the roots of
war in some possible “animal instinct”, as if, like the tiger, we
still had to kill to live, or, like the robin red-breast, to
defend a nesting territory. But war--organized war--is not a human
instinct. It is a highly-planned and cooperative form of theft.
And that form of theft began ten thousand years ago, when the
harvesters of wheat accumulated a surplus, and the nomads rode out
of the desert to rob them of what they themselves could not
provide.
Very, very early TV documentary (1971) on the history of science. You
might consider it low-tech nowadays, but I found him an absolutely
riveting presenter. Holocaust survivor, mathematician/philosopher/polymath, on first-name terms with many of those who worked on the Manhattan Project ... he died not long after completing the series.
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 07:50:27 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Example below. Note the capture of the function parameters.
We don’t call it “capture”: we call it “lexical binding”. All the good
languages do their name scoping that way.
On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 09:39:21 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 08:36:17 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Meh. I have never found another language with the power and
flexibility of C++. Not Java, not C#, and not Python.
Python can do homoiconicity.
C++ can do template metaprogramming.
Python doesn’t need two different languages for “compile-time” versus “run-time” programming; it uses the same language for both.
Function definitions and class definitions are not declarations: they are just forms of assignment statement.
And then there are metaclasses ...
Semitic languages are part of the Indo-European family, too.
Arabic is fundamentally different from Persian. Arabic cannot create new single words. It does it by using two or more existing words instead of
a single new word. This is its shortcoming. But in a pinch, its power as well.
In Persian (and all Indo-European languages), you can _correctly_ create
new single words by combining different roots. But it takes time for the
new word to get popular. So it is, just like Arabic, its power as well
as its shortcoming.
Don't try to elevate DFS to the level of my dick.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 07:50:27 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Example below. Note the capture of the function parameters.
We don’t call it “capture”: we call it “lexical binding”. All the good
languages do their name scoping that way.
Scott Meyers calls it "capture" and that's that! <braaaaaapppp>
Nomads didn't fight farmers for their wheat either. They needed no such strange and unusual item for consumption. In fact they were always
better fed than the farmers.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 09:39:21 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
C++ can do template metaprogramming.
Python doesn’t need two different languages for “compile-time” versus >> “run-time” programming; it uses the same language for both.
I think that Alexander Stepanov would say..... [some incomprehensible
C++ technical term]
Function definitions and class definitions are not declarations: they
are just forms of assignment statement.
And then there are metaclasses ...
I wonder if the C++ metaclass proposal ever made it into C++. Will have
to check....
On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:43:35 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 07:50:27 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Example below. Note the capture of the function parameters.
We don’t call it “capture”: we call it “lexical binding”. All the good
languages do their name scoping that way.
Scott Meyers calls it "capture" and that's that! <braaaaaapppp>
I date my CS knowledge from the days of Tony Hoare, Donald Knuth and those other greats. I don’t know who this “Scott Meyers” is, but I doubt they were more than a snot-nosed babe-in-arms when the early compiler pioneers figured out how to implement ALGOL-60.
On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 08:51:57 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 09:39:21 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
C++ can do template metaprogramming.
Python doesn’t need two different languages for “compile-time” versus >>> “run-time” programming; it uses the same language for both.
I think that Alexander Stepanov would say..... [some incomprehensible
C++ technical term]
Also, consider enums. I think C++ only has the old, boring, C-style enums.
Java managed to introduce quite an advanced enum facility, with the
ability to attach custom methods and attributes to enum instances.
Python offers the same sort of thing as Java. Only, whereas Java enums are
a feature that is built into the core language, Python does it as a
standard library module, written in pure Python.
How do we do it? Metaclasses! (Also descriptors help.)
Function definitions and class definitions are not declarations: they
are just forms of assignment statement.
And then there are metaclasses ...
I wonder if the C++ metaclass proposal ever made it into C++. Will have
to check....
I’ll be waiting.
On 2024-04-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Yup, back then, the Christian idea of “learning” was endlessly copying >> out intricately-illuminated Bibles ...
Or so you claim.
RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On 2024-04-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Yup, back then, the Christian idea of “learning” was endlessly copying >>> out intricately-illuminated Bibles ...
Or so you claim.
That reminds me... I need to read "A Canticle for Leibowitz".
On 2024-04-02, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Yup, back then, the Christian idea of “learning” was endlessly copying >> out intricately-illuminated Bibles ...
Or so you claim.
On 4/3/24 02:35, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Is this the common conclusion based on the state of health revealed by
their bodily remains?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
No it's not common at all.
The C++ enum-class is scoped and strongly typed, thus a bit restrictive. Implicit conversion (e.g. to int or char) is not supported.
Thank goodness for that. Because you realize that the transition to agriculture improved the life spans of those societies, compared to the
older nomadic way of life.
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 00:58:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Thank goodness for that. Because you realize that the transition to
agriculture improved the life spans of those societies, compared to the
older nomadic way of life.
But did it improve the quality of life?
Yes. More reliable food supply. More varied sources of food and other
goods by trade. Greater chance of surviving medical conditions and disabilities that would have immediately meant death for nomads--that
alone showed you that they had an easier life.
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 02:36:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Yes. More reliable food supply. More varied sources of food and other
goods by trade. Greater chance of surviving medical conditions and
disabilities that would have immediately meant death for nomads--that
alone showed you that they had an easier life.
Do you think the laborers building the pyramids had an easier life?
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 00:58:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Thank goodness for that. Because you realize that the transition to
agriculture improved the life spans of those societies, compared to the
older nomadic way of life.
But did it improve the quality of life?
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 02:36:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Yes. More reliable food supply. More varied sources of food and other
goods by trade. Greater chance of surviving medical conditions and
disabilities that would have immediately meant death for nomads--that
alone showed you that they had an easier life.
Do you think the laborers building the pyramids had an easier life? That's the ultimate outcome of agriculture -- the haves and the havenots, the
people on the hill and the one in the dark satanic mills.
On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:28:07 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The C++ enum-class is scoped and strongly typed, thus a bit restrictive.
Implicit conversion (e.g. to int or char) is not supported.
Since Python supports multiple inheritance, you can define a subclass
which inherits from both enum and, say, int. Or enum and str.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:28:07 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The C++ enum-class is scoped and strongly typed, thus a bit
restrictive.
Implicit conversion (e.g. to int or char) is not supported.
Since Python supports multiple inheritance, you can define a subclass
which inherits from both enum and, say, int. Or enum and str.
Meh.
On Sun, 24 Mar 2024 13:59:18 -0500, Physfitfreak wrote:
Don't try to elevate DFS to the level of my dick.
Hey, this isn’t comp.os.cocks.advocacy. Not COCA but COLA!
On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 07:33:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Semitic languages are part of the Indo-European family, too.
Only in the minority view of some linguists. The majority view is Proto- Afroasiatic and Proto-Indo-European are not related.
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 08:40:26 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 08:28:07 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
The C++ enum-class is scoped and strongly typed, thus a bit
restrictive.
Implicit conversion (e.g. to int or char) is not supported.
Since Python supports multiple inheritance, you can define a subclass
which inherits from both enum and, say, int. Or enum and str.
Meh.
Along with C3 linearization?
Until C++ gets its own equivalent feature, then suddenly it’ll be not-meh.
You were a bit excited over metaclasses for a while back there, weren’t you?
Until you realized it would never work, because classes are not
objects in C++.
Le 02-04-2024, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 07:33:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Semitic languages are part of the Indo-European family, too.
Only in the minority view of some linguists. The majority view is
Proto-
Afroasiatic and Proto-Indo-European are not related.
For real? There are some real linguists who see a relation between
Semitic and Indo-European languages? Other than political/religious arguments? Other than Merritt RUHLEN and the like?
On 2024-04-05, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 00:58:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Thank goodness for that. Because you realize that the transition to
agriculture improved the life spans of those societies, compared to
the older nomadic way of life.
But did it improve the quality of life?
I think a lot of the Indian tribes grew more successful after getting
horses and becoming nomadic, rather than farmers. You can almost
certainly say the same for the Mongolians.
I think the Comanches went from mostly farming (part of the Shoshone
tribes, I believe) to one of the most aggressive tribes on the plains. Somehow they REALLY adapted to horse riding. More so than any other
tribe.
That's interesting. The variety of Indian tribes in this country is
(was) amazing. I enjoy reading from the "Encyclopedia of Native American Tribes" sometimes (more or less randomly) just because of that variety.
I think the book is basically published for school children so even I
can follow along.
On 2024-04-05, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 02:36:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Yes. More reliable food supply. More varied sources of food and other
goods by trade. Greater chance of surviving medical conditions and
disabilities that would have immediately meant death for nomads--that
alone showed you that they had an easier life.
Do you think the laborers building the pyramids had an easier life? That's >>> the ultimate outcome of agriculture -- the haves and the havenots, the
people on the hill and the one in the dark satanic mills.
And NFL-loving gun-totin' Trumpenproletariat.
I'm guessing the inner cities are not "Trump Country" and that's where most of the "gun-toting" and killing thugs reside. But carry on, don't let inconvenient facts get in your way, you might lose your Woke Card.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than the
most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than the >> most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
Because of a higher suicide rate. The rural counties have a far lower homicide rate. From the above article:
"From 2011 to 2020, the most rural counties had a 46% lower rate of
gun homicide deaths than the most urban counties but a 76% higher rate
of gun suicide deaths, according to Reeping's analysis."
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than
the most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
That's very comforting to know that gun-toters can commit both homicide
and suicide. :-*
When we lived in Great Falls my younger brother ran around with a guy
that was half Blackfoot (he had Blackfeet friends). One of his friends
him told him that the Blackfeet were always looking for a fight. If they "didn't have anyone else to fight, they fought each other."
I've heard about the Iroquois. They didn't seem to be very "genteel."
On 2024-04-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On 2024-04-05, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2024 02:36:17 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
Yes. More reliable food supply. More varied sources of food and other >>>>>> goods by trade. Greater chance of surviving medical conditions and >>>>>> disabilities that would have immediately meant death for nomads--that >>>>>> alone showed you that they had an easier life.
Do you think the laborers building the pyramids had an easier life? That's
the ultimate outcome of agriculture -- the haves and the havenots, the >>>>> people on the hill and the one in the dark satanic mills.
And NFL-loving gun-totin' Trumpenproletariat.
I'm guessing the inner cities are not "Trump Country" and that's where most >>> of the "gun-toting" and killing thugs reside. But carry on, don't let
inconvenient facts get in your way, you might lose your Woke Card.
Cut the "woke" nonsense. And repeating simplistic statements. Jesus!
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than the >> most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
That may have changed, of course. Some cities, such as St. Louis, do have a lot
of killings. But people are always making fun of Chicago for some reason. >>
You carryin', bro?
Some cities... like St. Louis? How about Chicago, New Orleans, New York, Baltimore, Los Angeles, Portland, Atlanta? Every week in Chicago death toll from thug violence results in multiple deaths.
When they gather these "gun violence" statistics, they include suicide and accidental shooting deaths. Not quite the same thing as thugs killing each other, or innocent bystanders or victims.
On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:50:51 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than
the most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
"From 2011 to 2020, the most rural counties had a 46% lower rate of gun homicide deaths than the most urban counties but a 76% higher rate of gun suicide deaths, according to Reeping’s analysis."
Left that part out, did you?
I'd say there is a difference between
someone deciding to end their own life and having some thug deciding to
end it for them.
On 2024-04-07, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:50:51 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than
the most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
"From 2011 to 2020, the most rural counties had a 46% lower rate of gun
homicide deaths than the most urban counties but a 76% higher rate of gun
suicide deaths, according to Reeping’s analysis."
Left that part out, did you? I'd say there is a difference between
someone deciding to end their own life and having some thug deciding to
end it for them.
The liars ALWAYS "massage" the figures to try to make their lying point.
On 2024-04-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than the >>>> most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
Because of a higher suicide rate. The rural counties have a far lower
homicide rate. From the above article:
"From 2011 to 2020, the most rural counties had a 46% lower rate of
gun homicide deaths than the most urban counties but a 76% higher rate
of gun suicide deaths, according to Reeping's analysis."
That's very comforting to know that gun-toters can commit both homicide and >> suicide. :-*
I'm more worried about the ones who commit homicide. How about you?
I'd say there is a difference between someone deciding to end their own
life and having some thug deciding to end it for them.
How so?
It puzzles me why you dudes think the manner of gun deaths is important.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
Until you realized it would never work, because classes are not
objects in C++.
:-D WTF you talkin', Willis? Ye nae true Scotman fallacy?
Some cities, such as St. Louis, do have a lot of killings.
On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 07:59:04 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
Until you realized it would never work, because classes are not
objects in C++.
:-D WTF you talkin', Willis? Ye nae true Scotman fallacy?
You tell me: does C++ accept “true Scotsmen” among its users/features, or not?
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 08:24:11 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I'd say there is a difference between someone deciding to end their own
life and having some thug deciding to end it for them.
How so?
One is a choice by an individual the other is an infringement and act of aggression by a another person.
Do you think eliminating firearms would eliminate suicide?
When Britain used coal gas sticking your head in an oven was a popular method; q.v. Sylvia Plath. After the transition to natural gas, which does not have a carbon monoxide component, the suicide rate did not go down.
The same question could be asked about homicides. The Brits seem to do
quite well with knives and clubs.
Then there is the elephant in the room the politically correct would
rather ignore. Subtract out POCs killing each other and the homicide rate looks very similar to Canada or western European countries.
--
"Gates was into software since he was 13 years old, and he's far and
away a better software developer than most everyone in OSS la-la
land." - some dumb fsck
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 08:24:11 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I'd say there is a difference between someone deciding to end their own >>>> life and having some thug deciding to end it for them.
How so?
One is a choice by an individual the other is an infringement and act of
aggression by a another person.
Both are bad. Both are symptoms of socio-economic problems.
I said nothing about eliminating firearms. But they need the same type
of control applied to driving automobiles.
Then there is the elephant in the room the politically correct would
rather ignore. Subtract out POCs killing each other and the homicide
rate looks very similar to Canada or western European countries.
If true, so what? Again, look at socio-economics and crowding.
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 08:45:00 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I said nothing about eliminating firearms. But they need the same type
of control applied to driving automobiles.
What sort of control would that be? Retroactively impose some sort of licensing on firearm owners?
Then there is the elephant in the room the politically correct would
rather ignore. Subtract out POCs killing each other and the homicide
rate looks very similar to Canada or western European countries.
If true, so what? Again, look at socio-economics and crowding.
I've been looking at the socio-economics for the last 60 years or so.
Despite many attempts at preferential treatment there is a tranche of
society that has not moved forward.
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 08:45:00 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I said nothing about eliminating firearms. But they need the same type
of control applied to driving automobiles.
What sort of control would that be? Retroactively impose some sort of
licensing on firearm owners?
Something needs to be done.
Then there is the elephant in the room the politically correct would
rather ignore. Subtract out POCs killing each other and the homicide
rate looks very similar to Canada or western European countries.
If true, so what? Again, look at socio-economics and crowding.
I've been looking at the socio-economics for the last 60 years or so.
Despite many attempts at preferential treatment there is a tranche of
society that has not moved forward.
Hmmmm, and why is that?
Retroactively impose some sort of licensing on firearm owners?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 07:59:04 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
Until you realized it would never work, because classes are not
objects in C++.
:-D WTF you talkin', Willis? Ye nae true Scotman fallacy?
You tell me: does C++ accept “true Scotsmen” among its users/features, >> or not?
C++ provides many forms of programming, including object-oriented programming.
Something needs to be done.
Something needs to be done!!! Anything!!! Now!!!
rbowman wrote:
Something needs to be done.
Something needs to be done!!! Anything!!! Now!!!
Let's ban guns! That won't have the effect of disarming law-abiding citizens, while the criminals will still have them, right?
On 2024-04-08, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On 2024-04-07, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sun, 7 Apr 2024 09:50:51 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower- >>>> cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than >>>>> the most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
"From 2011 to 2020, the most rural counties had a 46% lower rate of gun >>>> homicide deaths than the most urban counties but a 76% higher rate of gun >>>> suicide deaths, according to Reeping’s analysis."
Left that part out, did you? I'd say there is a difference between
someone deciding to end their own life and having some thug deciding to >>>> end it for them.
The liars ALWAYS "massage" the figures to try to make their lying point.
Up yours.
I wasn't calling YOU a liar, dipshit, I was calling those who put out the figures you gullibly use (misuse) for your talking points, liars.
On 2024-04-09, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 08:24:11 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I'd say there is a difference between someone deciding to end their own >>>>> life and having some thug deciding to end it for them.
How so?
One is a choice by an individual the other is an infringement and act of >>> aggression by a another person.
Both are bad. Both are symptoms of socio-economic problems.
But killing ANOTHER person is MUCH worse than killing yourself. If you can't see why than you're an idiot.
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 17:28:29 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 08:45:00 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
I said nothing about eliminating firearms. But they need the same type >>>> of control applied to driving automobiles.
What sort of control would that be? Retroactively impose some sort of
licensing on firearm owners?
Something needs to be done.
Something needs to be done!!! Anything!!! Now!!! The problem is defining
a something that will be effective in achieving the stated goals than the
war on poverty, the war on drugs, the war on stupidity, and so on.
Then there is the elephant in the room the politically correct would >>>>> rather ignore. Subtract out POCs killing each other and the homicide >>>>> rate looks very similar to Canada or western European countries.
If true, so what? Again, look at socio-economics and crowding.
I've been looking at the socio-economics for the last 60 years or so.
Despite many attempts at preferential treatment there is a tranche of
society that has not moved forward.
Hmmmm, and why is that?
Genetics.
On Tue, 9 Apr 2024 08:46:03 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On Sat, 6 Apr 2024 07:59:04 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
Until you realized it would never work, because classes are not
objects in C++.
:-D WTF you talkin', Willis? Ye nae true Scotman fallacy?
You tell me: does C++ accept “true Scotsmen” among its users/features, >>> or not?
C++ provides many forms of programming, including object-oriented
programming.
But no metaclasses, like Python does.
I came up with an interesting use for them, to allow convenient definition
of a hierarchy of exception classes representing return codes from a given API. More details in the “Uses For Metaclasses” notebook in this collection <https://gitlab.com/ldo/python_topics_notebooks/>.
On 2024-04-08, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
On 2024-04-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462
The most rural counties had a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than the
most urban counties from 2011 to 2020, an analysis found.
Because of a higher suicide rate. The rural counties have a far lower >>>>> homicide rate. From the above article:
"From 2011 to 2020, the most rural counties had a 46% lower rate of
gun homicide deaths than the most urban counties but a 76% higher rate >>>>> of gun suicide deaths, according to Reeping's analysis."
That's very comforting to know that gun-toters can commit both homicide and
suicide. :-*
I'm more worried about the ones who commit homicide. How about you?
Both are unfortunate. And aren't both sins in your belief system?
Both are sins, but only one is murder. Again if you can't figure out which
is worse and why, then you're an idiot.
Sort of. They are both problems, though.
I heard a lot about Browning when I lived in Great Falls. Don't think I
ever there (or through there) though.
I think I would have been on the French side in the war. The French
seemed to be able to trade with the Indians and get along with them (and
send missionaries). The English conquered and destroyed.
Better have some regulations on rope, pantyhose, or whatever else can
be used to hang yourself.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
I came up with an interesting use for [metaclasses], to allow
convenient definition of a hierarchy of exception classes representing
return codes from a given API. More details in the “Uses For
Metaclasses” notebook in this collection
<https://gitlab.com/ldo/python_topics_notebooks/>.
Interesting. It is not clear to me why you need metaclasses to implement
the example, though.
On another note, C++20 introduces the concept of "concepts", which put constraints on templates and their parameters.
These programming languages arms races are fun!
On Wed, 10 Apr 2024 08:36:35 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
I came up with an interesting use for [metaclasses], to allow
convenient definition of a hierarchy of exception classes representing
return codes from a given API. More details in the “Uses For
Metaclasses” notebook in this collection
<https://gitlab.com/ldo/python_topics_notebooks/>.
Interesting. It is not clear to me why you need metaclasses to implement
the example, though.
How would you do it at least as easily, without them?
And how would you do that in C++?
On another note, C++20 introduces the concept of "concepts", which put
constraints on templates and their parameters.
In Python, that would just be another instance of the same type-annotation system it already has. Remember that Python does not need a “template language” versus a “run-time language”.
These programming languages arms races are fun!
C++ is already over 5× the complexity of Python, and looks like it is growing even faster.
In other words, it is C++ that is struggling to keep up, not Python.
Keep checking boxes in the feechure matrix.
On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:38:44 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Keep checking boxes in the feechure matrix.
And keep adding them to your C++ wishlist. Already 5-6× the complexity of Python, yet nowhere near as expressive.
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