On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 15:09:54 -0500, RabidPedagog <
rabid@pedag.og> wrote in <najlN.127392$
xHn7.23461@fx14.iad>:
On 2024-01-03 2:38 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2024-01-03, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
On 2024-01-03 12:08 a.m., vallor wrote:
On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 14:31:31 -0000 (UTC), RonB
<ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote in <un16o3$2nr1r$1@dont-email.me>:
On 2024-01-02, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
On 2024-01-01 11:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2024-01-01, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
On 2024-01-01 12:25 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2024-01-01, RabidPedagog <rabid@pedag.og> wrote:
On 2023-12-31 10:10 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
RabidPedagog wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
royalties:
On 2023-12-30 10:14 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
RabidPedagog wrote this copyrighted missive and expects >>>>>>>>>>>>> royalties:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M>
It's a little older, but it is definitely as relevant today >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as it was then. This is more or less the exact experience >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had.
Probably says more about the user than the OS. One
commentor noted:
"The way that luke was hyping it up, I almost >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought he was going to do something like Arch, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gentoo, or Linux from scratch. And then he said >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mint and I almost died laughing."
The point here is that regardless of which distribution they >>>>>>>>>>>> used, the most basic things were often an issue and things >>>>>>>>>>>> tended to fall apart even when you followed instructions >>>>>>>>>>>> _just like I've been saying over the years_. If all you're >>>>>>>>>>>> going to do is word processing and browsing, you'll manage >>>>>>>>>>>> but even then it can be an issue because the sound might not >>>>>>>>>>>> work, just like Andy in the videos and exactly like my >>>>>>>>>>>> mother. Sooner or later, the Linux apologists will have to >>>>>>>>>>>> face reality and say that the system isn't all that great >>>>>>>>>>>> *if* they actually want to attract new, common users. If >>>>>>>>>>>> that's of no interest to them, then they might as well carry >>>>>>>>>>>> on.
There are countless people using Linux for music and video >>>>>>>>>>> production,
artwork (Krita and GIMP), YouTube tutorials (using, for
example, OBS),
all sorts of servers including supercomputers, penetration >>>>>>>>>>> testing, small-form-factor computers for robotics and control >>>>>>>>>>> systems, classic gaming, driving 3D printers, and even basic >>>>>>>>>>> office work.
As for newbie or casual users, they will have trouble no >>>>>>>>>>> matter what OS they're running. For fun you can google for >>>>>>>>>>> problems reported to Microsoft and read the reactions of users >>>>>>>>>>> to the "solutions" Microsoft gives them. Even "advanced" >>>>>>>>>>> Windows users can get stuck.
Computer OSes are complex things. Efforts to dumb them down >>>>>>>>>>> simply support dummies.
The reality though is that setting up a Windows or Mac computer >>>>>>>>>> might be challenging at first, but it eventually gets done and >>>>>>>>>> stays functional even after you've run a few updates. In
Linux's case, setting it up to work right will likely require >>>>>>>>>> using tutorials simply to install the software, and every
process is going to be different from the other. Here, you can >>>>>>>>>> simply install the application from the store though in this >>>>>>>>>> other case, you have to be careful to install it from the
command line. In the next case, you can use the store but be >>>>>>>>>> careful to use the Flatpak whereas the other has to be a Snap >>>>>>>>>> so you'll need to install the requirements in the commnand >>>>>>>>>> line. For this other app you need, make sure to get the source >>>>>>>>>> code and compile it in the command line using this
incomprehensible tutorial which also requires libraries you >>>>>>>>>> don't have. Careful, the next update will break the apps so >>>>>>>>>> you'll need to do this all over again next week.
So NOT true. Linux is extremely stable for me. And has been
stable for 17 years. Maybe running Windows games on it is a
problem, but I never ran Windows games on Windows. Any time you >>>>>>>>> put an extra layer between a "foreign" application and the
native OS you introduce a lot of potential issues. For how I use >>>>>>>>> Linux it's rock solid.
You've already told the group on numerous occasions that you
never install applications of any complexity under Linux. You use >>>>>>>> whatever is already there and add basic screenplay software at >>>>>>>> the most. I'm referring to everyone else who uses their computer >>>>>>>> for advanced tasks where Linux fails miserably.
What are some of these so-called "complex" applications you speak >>>>>>> of?
Almost all games, right?
No, I posted a video where the users had trouble with the
applications they use for sound and video editing, as well as the
basic functionality of Linux such as sound. Heck, my own mom had
issues with sound on her incredibly basic desktop.
I'm a user and I don't have trouble with sound (never) or even video >>>>> editing — what little I've done with it. Video editing is slow on
the trailing edge computers I use, but it works. I still think a lot >>>>> of people overthink Linux — or they try to make it look and work
like Windows. You also have to realize that the most of the
well-known video editing applications are not made for Linux. I
understand why (market share) but it's not a technical issue with
Linux. After all Linux rendering farms are used to create most the
modern CGI in movies.
This is another case where I would say use Windows (or Mac OS) if
you want to be a professional video editor. But this is NOT what
most people use a desktop computer for day to day.
Instead of insinuating what is not true, clearly say what you
mean. There are a LOT of people who don't play games on their
computers. Almost all complicated PC games are developed for
Windows. If they were made for Linux natively they would work
fine. Again, to run Windows' games in Linux you need "translating" >>>>>>> applications in the middle. Definitely puts Linux at a huge
disadvantage.
Nevertheless, A Windows game on proton can be as performant -- if not
better -- than the same game running on Windows. For example, proton
uses DXVK to translate the DX windows calls to Vulkan. Zoom!
I said it in another post: the only games that run better on Linux are
those produced by Valve which were developed with Vulkan in mind. In
general though, Vulkan-based games run better in Linux. However, most
develop for DirectX.
And those made directly for Linux don't perform better than their
Windows counterparts either. Valve's games are the exception.
I'll take your word for it. But I'm guessing most games "made for
Linux"
were originally made for Windows and then ported over. And the
majority of the quality control is going to be concentrated on the
Windows versions, since that's where they get the majority of their
business.
Consider the Steam Deck. Games like Borderlands 3 (which have a
Linux port) will run there natively, compared to running (say)
Starfield with proton. It could provide some economic pressure to
port more games to Linux, or -- and this makes better sense -- make
sure their Windows games run great with proton, too.
Developers are not likely to develop for 1% of their potential users
who also produce nearly 100% of the technical issues. If anything,
interest in catering to Linux users is likely to go down as companies
have now realized that there is no money whatsoever to be made with
the platform.
I seriously doubt that Linux causes any game developers 100% of their
technical issues. Even when applications are specifically designed for
Windows you have glitches. As even a casual Internet search will
clearly show.
Once again, the video highlighted that fact by mentioning that most of
the support tickets Ubisoft faced were from Linux users trying to run
their Windows-only games.
Ubisoft games aren't on Steam.
AFAIK, there is no official Ubisoft launcher for Linux,
proton or no proton.
They could learn something from Valve.
BTW, just because a game is on Steam, that doesn't
mean it is a "Valve game". I just installed (over
Tuesday night) Tiny Tina, and then ran it, here on my
Linux laptop. Steam was the platform
where I bought, installed, and ran the game with no trouble
(knock on wood). But it is a Gearbox game, not Valve.
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