XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

Thanks

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326
Registered Ubuntu User (deprecated) # 2136

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:05:08 -0600
"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Cybe R. Wizard

...although this site:
<https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/FVWM>
suggests using Xcompmgr to get, "simple compositing effects."

I don't know if that helps or not.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326
Registered Ubuntu User (deprecated) # 2136

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 2016-02-27, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Thank you. Maybe I should try a different tack.

The reason why I use fvwm is that it is excellent for productivity and
managing many virtual screens and having custom menus, especially on a big-screen desktop. I typically have a lot of windows open, in
different virtual screens, doing several unrelated projects. Fvwm
rules for managing that.

Ultimately, I do not need Gnome3 or any Gnome, Unity, compositing, etc.

However, I do need a few applets provided by Gnome indicator panel.

- Adjusting sound level
- User switcher
- Network manager
- Keyboard layout switcher (I alternately use English or Russian
keyboard)
- Possibly something else that I forgot.

Also, being able to access the Gnome application menu would be also
nice.

Is there, perhaps, some alternative indicator-type programs that I can
run inside a pure fvwm session? Maybe not from the gnome project?

Thanks!

i

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> writes:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

I start Fvwm by booting to runlevel 3 with Fedora.
I use a .xinitrc that starts like this:

#!/bin/bash
. /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc-common

As far as "gnome-panel", I can't seem to install it:

[root@home src]# dnf provides *bin/gnome-panel
Error: No Matches found

For "gnome" or "kde" desktop stuff, I simply have Fvwm
build the xdg menus like this:

PipeRead 'fvwm-menu-desktop --enable-mini-icons'

(Check the man page, you need to add the menu(s) that creates
to some accessible menu.)

--
Dan Espen

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 27/02/16 15:29, Ignoramus26452 wrote:

On 2016-02-27, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Thank you. Maybe I should try a different tack.

The reason why I use fvwm is that it is excellent for productivity and managing many virtual screens and having custom menus, especially on a big-screen desktop.

MATE??



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 02/27/2016 09:40 AM, Ignoramus26452 wrote:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

Thanks

Don't know if this helps or not.

http://fvwm.org/documentation/faq/

2.8 How can I use fvwm with GNOME version >= 2 or KDE
version >= 2?

A: Most standard applications work as any other application with
fvwm. However, some features and special applications
such as
panels, pagers, taskbars and desktops need a special
support. Interaction between the window manager, the desktop
environment and applications is standardized in the
Extended Window
Manager Hints specification. fvwm supports this
specification since
the 2.5.x series (GNOME, GTK, KDE and QT since their version
2). See the "Extended Window Manager Hints" section of
the fvwm
manual page and the commands and styles which start with
"EWMH" for
more details.

You can use fvwm as the GNOME window manager. For this,
start GNOME
(gnome-session). The game is to replace the running
window manager
(sawfish or metacity by default) by fvwm. You may try to
type "fvwm
--replace&" in a terminal. If this does not work kill
fvwm and open
the session properties dialog (run
"gnome-session-properties&" in a
terminal) and change, in the second tab, the metacity
(or sawfish)
Style value from "Restart" to "Normal" (do not forget to
"Apply"
this change), so that gnome-session won't restart it
when you kill
it. Then, run "killall metacity; sleep 1; fvwm &" in a
terminal. After you have succeeded starting fvwm you
just have to
save your session (say via GNOME session logout). The
next time you
start gnome-session, fvwm will be used (and you do not
need to save
the session again at logout). Note that if you use
gnome-smproxy,
and run an FvwmButtons which swallows some applications
which use
the old session protocol these applications are restarted by
gnome-session and FvwmButtons at session restart which
can cause
trouble.

You can also use fvwm as the KDE window manager. KDE is
started by
a shell script called "startkde". This script starts
ksmserver
which starts the window manager (kwin by default). To
start fvwm
you should add the option "-w fvwm" to the ksmserver
command line
(close to the end of the script). You may copy startkde to
startkde_fvwm somewhere in your path, edit startkde_fvwm and
finally replace startkde by startkde_fvwm in your X
startup script
(e.g., ~/.xinitrc, ~/.Xclients or ~/.xsession). Note
that ksmserver
does not support the fvwm Restart command. You should
use "Restart
fvwm" for restarting fvwm. But if you do that it is a
bad idea to
save the session later.

--
Caver1

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 2016-02-27 16:29, Ignoramus26452 wrote:

Thank you. Maybe I should try a different tack.

The reason why I use fvwm is that it is excellent for productivity and managing many virtual screens and having custom menus, especially on a big-screen desktop. I typically have a lot of windows open, in
different virtual screens, doing several unrelated projects. Fvwm
rules for managing that.

How about XFCE?
It is simple, it has all you mention, it uses some libraries from gnome,
and has a panel. I don't know if you have it in Ubuntu.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:05:08 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600 Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Role wit da punches!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:29:49 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

On 2016-02-27, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Thank you. Maybe I should try a different tack.

The reason why I use fvwm is that it is excellent for productivity and managing many virtual screens and having custom menus, especially on a big-screen desktop. I typically have a lot of windows open, in
different virtual screens, doing several unrelated projects. Fvwm
rules for managing that.

Ultimately, I do not need Gnome3 or any Gnome, Unity, compositing,
etc.

However, I do need a few applets provided by Gnome indicator panel.

- Adjusting sound level
- User switcher
- Network manager
- Keyboard layout switcher (I alternately use English or Russian
keyboard)
- Possibly something else that I forgot.

Also, being able to access the Gnome application menu would be also
nice.

Is there, perhaps, some alternative indicator-type programs that I can
run inside a pure fvwm session? Maybe not from the gnome project?

Thanks!

i

I'd try different panels (and their goodies) to see what fits your use
case. I use LXDE, but with the Xfce4 panel because of the applet kit
it has.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326
Registered Ubuntu User (deprecated) # 2136

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 11:23:09 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:29:49 -0600 Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

snip

Also, being able to access the Gnome application menu would be also
nice.

Is there, perhaps, some alternative indicator-type programs that I can
run inside a pure fvwm session? Maybe not from the gnome project?

Thanks!

i

I'd try different panels (and their goodies) to see what fits your use
case. I use LXDE, but with the Xfce4 panel because of the applet kit it
has.

Cybe R. Wizard

Ubuntu Studio!

Also provides the slightly more beneficial use of a low latency kernel.

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

Ignoramus26452 wrote:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

If you can't find a solution, take a look at lxpanel from the LXDE
desktop. Don't know if it will work under fvwm, but works perfectly
with Openbox without any parts of LXDE being installed.. Also, I don't
know if it has the applets you require.


Stef

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

At Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600 Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

With newer versions of Gnome, you cannot properly use some Gnome-isms without the whole Gnome-session. Stuff like nm-applet, etc. need some random 'magic' that only gnome-session is providing (some sort of dbus or something
nonsense). So what you end up doing (what *I* ended up doing) was:

Fire up a full-fledged Gnome desktop, and use gconf-editor to change the
window manager to fvwm. (In *my* case I also set the filemanager to
/bin/true, which gets rid of the pointy-clicky file manager (nautilus), which *I* have no use for,) Note: Setting the window manager to fvwm with gconf-editor did not actually work. It just set the window manager to *none* (arg!), at least under CentOS 6. *I* ended up adding a 'Startup Program' that started fvwm.

<sarcasm style="rant">
I believe newer versions of Gnome really insist that you really ought to use *their* choice of window manager (metacity) and are not going to let you do something else, at least not without a *fight*. :-) And they really think you really should use their pointy-clicky file manager. After all, your *keyboard* is an obsolescent piece of equipment. *NOBODY* uses a keyboard to access
files anymore, right? Files don't name *names* they have *icons*.
</sarcasm>

Thanks

--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On Saturday 27 Feb 2016 16:05, Cybe R. Wizard conveyed the following to alt.os.linux.ubuntu...

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

It isn't the compositing which is the decisive factor here, but it
should be a freedesktop.org-compliant window manager, which fvwm isn't.

freedesktop.org, by the way, is a RedHat subsidiary, and is completely
under RedHat's control. Officially it is an attempt to streamline the different desktop environments for interoperability. Unofficially and
in practice, what it does is force certain GNOME design features into
other desktop environments and window managers, such as KDE, XFCE and
LXDE.

Furthermore, it is also the propaganda machine for RedHat's design
philosophy regarding the entire GNU/Linux ecosystem. Among other
things, it was freedesktop.org which declared a separate /usr filesystem
broken without an initramfs or initrd ─ because _they_ broke it due to
their sloppy packaging of systemd and udev on the one hand [*], and
their decision to move the content of /bin, /lib and /sbin under /usr ─
while it still isn't broken in other distributions such as Gentoo,
PCLinuxOS, Slackware, et al.

In other words, the breakage was and still is specific to RedHat
derivatives only.


[*] By ─ guess who ─ Kay Sievers and Lennart Poettering, of course. Two
developers so excellent at their job that Linus Torvalds himself has
forbidden them from submitting a single more patch to the Linux
kernel until they've cleaned up their act.

--
= Aragorn =

http://www.linuxcounter.net - registrant #223157

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 2016-02-27, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:05:08 -0600
"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Cybe R. Wizard

...although this site:
<https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/FVWM>
suggests using Xcompmgr to get, "simple compositing effects."

I don't know if that helps or not.

Cybe R. Wizard

I tried what (IIRC) was suggested here, which is starting lxde and
running fvwm2 from there.

So far it seems to be awesome, not much is missing and things that
need changing are correctable. Youtube is working. fvwm is trustworty
as usual. I have great hopes.

Thanks a lot, everyone!

i

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 2016-02-27, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:

At Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600 Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

With newer versions of Gnome, you cannot properly use some Gnome-isms without the whole Gnome-session. Stuff like nm-applet, etc. need some random 'magic' that only gnome-session is providing (some sort of dbus or something nonsense). So what you end up doing (what *I* ended up doing) was:

Fire up a full-fledged Gnome desktop, and use gconf-editor to change the window manager to fvwm. (In *my* case I also set the filemanager to /bin/true, which gets rid of the pointy-clicky file manager (nautilus), which *I* have no use for,) Note: Setting the window manager to fvwm with gconf-editor did not actually work. It just set the window manager to *none* (arg!), at least under CentOS 6. *I* ended up adding a 'Startup Program' that
started fvwm.

Was that on 14.04 ubuntu? Or something earlier?

It used to work to just start fvwm when in a gnome session, but now it
does not.

<sarcasm style="rant">

I believe newer versions of Gnome really insist that you really
ought to use *their* choice of window manager (metacity) and are not
going to let you do something else, at least not without a
*fight*. :-) And they really think you really should use their
pointy-clicky file manager. After all, your *keyboard* is an
obsolescent piece of equipment. *NOBODY* uses a keyboard to access
files anymore, right? Files don't name *names* they have *icons*. ></sarcasm>

Well, you need brains to use a keyboard. So yes you are right!

i

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XPost: alt.os.linux.ubuntu, comp.os.linux.misc

On 2016-02-27, Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> wrote:

Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> writes:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

I start Fvwm by booting to runlevel 3 with Fedora.
I use a .xinitrc that starts like this:

#!/bin/bash
. /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc-common

As far as "gnome-panel", I can't seem to install it:

[root@home src]# dnf provides *bin/gnome-panel
Error: No Matches found

For "gnome" or "kde" desktop stuff, I simply have Fvwm
build the xdg menus like this:

PipeRead 'fvwm-menu-desktop --enable-mini-icons'

(Check the man page, you need to add the menu(s) that creates
to some accessible menu.)

This is a really cool idea with fvwm-menu-desktop, I will check it
out, I am upgrading my main desktop to 14.04 right now

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On 2016-02-27, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:29:49 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

On 2016-02-27, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r_wizard@WizardsTower.invalid>
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600
Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

I'm pretty sure that Gnome(3) requires a compositing WM. FVWM isn't
likely to fulfill that role.

Thank you. Maybe I should try a different tack.

The reason why I use fvwm is that it is excellent for productivity and
managing many virtual screens and having custom menus, especially on a
big-screen desktop. I typically have a lot of windows open, in
different virtual screens, doing several unrelated projects. Fvwm
rules for managing that.

Ultimately, I do not need Gnome3 or any Gnome, Unity, compositing,
etc.

However, I do need a few applets provided by Gnome indicator panel.

- Adjusting sound level
- User switcher
- Network manager
- Keyboard layout switcher (I alternately use English or Russian
keyboard)
- Possibly something else that I forgot.

Also, being able to access the Gnome application menu would be also
nice.

Is there, perhaps, some alternative indicator-type programs that I can
run inside a pure fvwm session? Maybe not from the gnome project?

Thanks!

i

I'd try different panels (and their goodies) to see what fits your use
case. I use LXDE, but with the Xfce4 panel because of the applet kit
it has.

Cybe R. Wizard

I tried LXDE last night, it was pretty nice and promising, started
fvwm2 with no problem.

I think that it is time to fully migrate into the 21st century now and
make some major switches, away from gnome, to have a fully working
config, etc.

I will try to thoroughly research lxde and xfce and make something
that is reliable and functional enough to use with fvwm. So far what
I see is giving me good hope.

i

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On 2016-02-27, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@invalid.es> wrote:

On 2016-02-27 16:29, Ignoramus26452 wrote:

Thank you. Maybe I should try a different tack.

The reason why I use fvwm is that it is excellent for productivity and
managing many virtual screens and having custom menus, especially on a
big-screen desktop. I typically have a lot of windows open, in
different virtual screens, doing several unrelated projects. Fvwm
rules for managing that.

How about XFCE?
It is simple, it has all you mention, it uses some libraries from gnome,
and has a panel. I don't know if you have it in Ubuntu.

It seems to be available, simple, and nice. Thanks a lot.

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On 2016-02-27, Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote: <snip>

Ultimately, I do not need Gnome3 or any Gnome, Unity, compositing, etc.

However, I do need a few applets provided by Gnome indicator panel.

- Adjusting sound level
- User switcher
- Network manager
- Keyboard layout switcher (I alternately use English or Russian
keyboard)
- Possibly something else that I forgot.

Also, being able to access the Gnome application menu would be also
nice.

Is there, perhaps, some alternative indicator-type programs that I can
run inside a pure fvwm session? Maybe not from the gnome project?

Install xfce-panel, it can do all you mentioned and more.

Thanks!

i

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At Sun, 28 Feb 2016 08:31:17 -0600 Ignoramus5752 <ignoramus5752@NOSPAM.5752.invalid> wrote:

On 2016-02-27, Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> wrote:

At Sat, 27 Feb 2016 08:40:57 -0600 Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

Additionally, if I start a GNOME session, and switch to fvwm with
"fvwm2 -replace", the session ends immediately instead of smoothly
switching to fvwm, as used to be the case.

Lastly, in a purely fvwm2 session, google chrome cannot access the
local password store.

I am hoping that some members here know the answer on how to integrate
fvwm2 with a gnome session correctly.

Essentially what I hope for, is a gnome session, with working
indicators, with fvwm as window manager. This would be the best.

Any tips on how to accomplish that?

With newer versions of Gnome, you cannot properly use some Gnome-isms without
the whole Gnome-session. Stuff like nm-applet, etc. need some random 'magic'
that only gnome-session is providing (some sort of dbus or something nonsense). So what you end up doing (what *I* ended up doing) was:

Fire up a full-fledged Gnome desktop, and use gconf-editor to change the window manager to fvwm. (In *my* case I also set the filemanager to /bin/true, which gets rid of the pointy-clicky file manager (nautilus), which
*I* have no use for,) Note: Setting the window manager to fvwm with gconf-editor did not actually work. It just set the window manager to *none*
(arg!), at least under CentOS 6. *I* ended up adding a 'Startup Program' that
started fvwm.

Was that on 14.04 ubuntu? Or something earlier?

CentOS 6.

It used to work to just start fvwm when in a gnome session, but now it
does not.

<sarcasm style="rant">

I believe newer versions of Gnome really insist that you really
ought to use *their* choice of window manager (metacity) and are not
going to let you do something else, at least not without a
*fight*. :-) And they really think you really should use their pointy-clicky file manager. After all, your *keyboard* is an
obsolescent piece of equipment. *NOBODY* uses a keyboard to access
files anymore, right? Files don't name *names* they have *icons*. ></sarcasm>

Well, you need brains to use a keyboard. So yes you are right!

i

--
Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

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On 02/27/16 06:40, Ignoramus26452 so wittily quipped:

I have used fvwm almost exclusively for the last 20 years. Used it
with my custom config that I modified from time to time.

I find it necessary to use gnome-panel inside fvwm, which always
worked great. I need that panel for menus, shortcuts, and, most
importantly, indicators. Those indicators are needed to switch
keyboard layouts, connect to networks, adjust sound level, and do a
few other critical things.

Unfortunately, in 14.04, starting gnome-panel inside a fvwm session
does NOT display indicators. The panel starts, but indicators are
missing. The only thing displayed is a keyboard layout switcher, which
also does not work correctly (does not switch layouts).

I'm not a gnome 3 fan - maybe you can use Mate's panel instead? It
forks off of gnome 2, which *I* believe is *SUPERIOR* in every way.

but then again Linux lets us have it OUR way, which is a total GOOD thing.

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On 28 Feb 2016 14:58:57 GMT
Kirk_Von_Rockstein <Kirk_Von_Rockstein@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Install xfce-panel, it can do all you mentioned and more.

That's why I use it on LXDE.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Registered GNU/Linux user # 126326
Registered Ubuntu User (deprecated) # 2136

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On 2016-02-28, Kirk_Von_Rockstein <Kirk_Von_Rockstein@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

On 2016-02-27, Ignoramus26452 <ignoramus26452@NOSPAM.26452.invalid> wrote:
<snip>

Ultimately, I do not need Gnome3 or any Gnome, Unity, compositing, etc.

However, I do need a few applets provided by Gnome indicator panel.

- Adjusting sound level
- User switcher
- Network manager
- Keyboard layout switcher (I alternately use English or Russian
keyboard)
- Possibly something else that I forgot.

Also, being able to access the Gnome application menu would be also
nice.

Is there, perhaps, some alternative indicator-type programs that I can
run inside a pure fvwm session? Maybe not from the gnome project?

Install xfce-panel, it can do all you mentioned and more.

I just tried this xfce.

It seems to be great, old-linux style, with everything that I need,
nothing I do NOT need, and modest presentation style that is not in mu
way.

I start fvwm2 inside xfce by hand and get, pretty much, all I want,
without the buggy junk like compositing and wobbly windows.

Thank you guys. I am very happy right now.

i

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