• Re: fumigation?

    From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to bad sector on Sun Dec 3 15:14:37 2023
    bad sector wrote:

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

    I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

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  • From bad sector@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 3 10:12:06 2023
    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
    I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 3 16:59:07 2023
    Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:


    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
    I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

    Here it is absolutely spamfree.

    Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
    allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Dec 3 15:49:22 2023
    micky wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    bad sector wrote:

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

    I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

    What's a "relevant tag"?

    I use thundberbird message filters to add tag #6 to messages coming from googlegroups (unless it's from someone in a special address book) that
    way I don't see it. But if I want to check whether the filters are
    working, I can view all messages with tag #6

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to usenet@andyburns.uk on Sun Dec 3 10:28:48 2023
    In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 15:14:37 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    bad sector wrote:

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

    I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

    What's a "relevant tag"?

    I see it. If someone posts at the same time they do, I'm lucky if I
    don't delete a real post/thread when I delete the spam. Like this
    thread.

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Wally J on Sun Dec 3 16:32:11 2023
    Wally J wrote:

    Even I could block that spam [...] Why can't Google? (if it's going
    through them, that is).

    It's not only going through them, it's coming *from* their users.

    On this newsgroup, Frank is the acknowledged
    leader in nntp headers so maybe he'll chime in.

    I have a separate address book called "google whitelist"
    I put people in it of I know they're google groups users

    I have a message filter that has two rules and two actions

    IF "from" ISN'T IN ADDR BOOK "google whitelist"
    AND message-id CONTAINS "@googlegroups.com"
    THEN mark as read
    AND add tag #6

    That's thunderbird, I'm sure other clients can do similar

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Dec 3 12:21:22 2023
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

    I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

    It's a big problem lately... hundreds upon hundreds of spams per day...
    And getting worse by the day...

    When Google won't even let me log into my own email from a VPN, you'd think that these hundreds upon hundreds of spams would be blocked by Google.
    <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

    I can't fathom how Google's coding is so sophomoric, that it doesn't.
    Having built procmail scripts in the olden days, I have never thought that Google's coders were any good given they simply block everything in email.

    But then why can't they block this spam flooding us by hundreds a day?
    <https://i.postimg.cc/6pj29c6f/spam01.jpg>
    How can even Google's lousy coders be _that_ atrocious? I don't know.

    Even I could block that spam (although I only have the likes of Alan Baker, Snit, Dustin Cook, Rod Speed, and a couple of others in my killfiles).

    Why can't Google? (if it's going through them, that is). On this newsgroup, Frank is the acknowledged leader in nntp headers so maybe he'll chime in.

    Unfortunately, there are many hundreds a day now, seemingly from spammers
    who want us to watch movies for the most part, or to click their links.

    The headers of the few I sampled "appear" to come from Google Groups, but,
    of course, headers can be forged - but even so - it's a consistent header.

    Many people block Google Groups posts, out of hand, so that's one possible solution (I only randomly sampled the headers) and it could be that those headers are injected anyway - so then it's up to the NNTP admins to do it.

    For us, if we agree not to use the word "watch" or "movies" in the subject, that will get some of them, but I think just blocking en masse headers indicating Google Groups will do the trick.

    It's sad that we finally have to implement spam filters to do this though.
    Here is just one header out of many hundreds that came in today...

    What do folks who know more than I do about headers make of it?

    X-Received: by 2002:a37:ad0a:0:b0:77d:ccba:990f with SMTP id f10-20020a37ad0a000000b0077dccba990fmr385141qkm.8.1701619779751; Sun, 03
    Dec 2023 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
    X-Received: by 2002:aca:1011:0:b0:3b8:950b:6e8c with SMTP id 17-20020aca1011000000b003b8950b6e8cmr1433560oiq.4.1701619779506; Sun, 03
    Dec 2023 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
    Path: news.mynewsserver.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!1.us.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.
    google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
    Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
    Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
    In-Reply-To: <da1978f5-574f-42f0-bc35-71a15fa68c8an@googlegroups.com>
    Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=2a0f:e383:4952:74ab:855a:dfee:749a:6576; posting-account=cd0JhgoAAACShHBEpPkoEjnWjSQ47bCx
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 2a0f:e383:4952:74ab:855a:dfee:749a:6576
    References: <da1978f5-574f-42f0-bc35-71a15fa68c8an@googlegroups.com>
    User-Agent: G2/1.0
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Message-ID: <aaa508ab-0864-4f0c-9b95-a7db21e733cfn@googlegroups.com>
    Subject: Re: WATCH! Holiday Twist (2023) FullMovie Free Online Mp4 On 123????????????
    From: Derrick Matthews <derrickmatthews946@gmail.com>
    Injection-Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2023 16:09:39 +0000
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    X-Received-Bytes: 5271
    Xref: sewer comp.mobile.android:110187

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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Dec 3 12:36:01 2023
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

    I use thundberbird message filters to add tag #6 to messages coming from googlegroups (unless it's from someone in a special address book) that
    way I don't see it. But if I want to check whether the filters are
    working, I can view all messages with tag #6

    There are so many hundreds coming in, and getting worse by the day, that
    the process I've used so far (manual select & delete) won't work, as I
    almost deleted this thread in that process (which micky also alluded to).

    I never thought much of Google's coding skills when it comes to blocking
    spam (they just block everything) so I suspect these are not actually
    coming from Google Groups (but folks like Frank may know better than I
    since he used to run an nntp server for his old company, as I recall).

    However... the spam may not be coming from Google Groups at all... as you
    can note their injected headers (in my case) are above the PATH: directive.

    I suspect the spammers set up an nntp server, and they were able to get
    peered, so part of the solution is in the peering groups, such as:
    <http://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering>
    <http://groups.google.com/g/news.software.nntp>
    (I'm not sure which the canonical peering group is though.)

    For individuals like micky who need help setting up filters, there is a newsgroup just for newsreaders that he can post his questions to.
    <http://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers>

    And then there are sometimes individual groups for specific newsreaders.
    <http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.software.thunderbird>
    --
    Note I didn't test these urls today so some above urls might not work.

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  • From bad sector@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 3 11:37:38 2023
    On 12/3/23 10:59 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
    Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:


    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
    I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

    Here it is absolutely spamfree.

    Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
    allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

    Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
    and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
    concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
    as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
    be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
    other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
    spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Dec 3 12:58:39 2023
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

    Even I could block that spam [...] Why can't Google? (if it's going
    through them, that is).

    It's not only going through them, it's coming *from* their users.

    Hi Andy,

    I'm actually a bit confused by the enormity of this spam coming in...

    I'm not so sure, but I readily admit I don't know as much about headers as people like you or Stan or Frank Slootweg would (hell, I don't even know
    how to look up an ivp6 IP address, which these headers seem to be using).

    The reason I'm not so sure is that there are hundreds upon hundreds of
    them, and even Google's terrible coders wouldn't be _that_ stupid to let
    that happen (when I can't even sign into my own email using a VPN anyway).

    I'm not sure though, because if it _is_ coming from Google's users, then
    Google coders suck more than I thought they did, in terms of spam filters.

    NOTE: I think Google's coders on tracking us are brilliant; so my opinion
    of Google's coders stems from the way they block too much in my email.

    However, I will affirm that it really does not matter to us, as
    individuals, where the spam is coming from as we all have to block the spam based on what is in the headers (or body) alone - which "appear" to be
    coming from Google's users.

    On this newsgroup, Frank is the acknowledged
    leader in nntp headers so maybe he'll chime in.

    I have a separate address book called "google whitelist"
    I put people in it of I know they're google groups users

    Yeah. I know how it works. What I'm wondering is why the news servers are peering this crap. That is really where the fundamental filters should be.

    Why does it show up in a Google Groups listing, for example?
    <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

    You'd think Google would filter that spam out, wouldn't you?
    (I don't understand why it's in that URL ouput because it should not be!)

    I have a message filter that has two rules and two actions

    IF "from" ISN'T IN ADDR BOOK "google whitelist"
    AND message-id CONTAINS "@googlegroups.com"
    THEN mark as read
    AND add tag #6

    This is great! People like you can help those who are on TB!
    It should be cut-and-paste for them.

    I think Vanguard is on Dialog, so he can help the dialog users too.
    Best is if he provides a script that others can just cut-and-paste.

    Both have fantastic filtering capabilities, albeit some are cryptic syntax.

    That's thunderbird, I'm sure other clients can do similar

    I'm well aware of filters and I'm as well aware that every newsreader has
    its own method for implementing them - but that information above is useful
    for folks like micky who probably would need help.

    As for me, I can filter on anything as my filters use regex methods.
    It's just a PITA to set it up.

    Did you ever set up procmail filters, Andy?
    My setup is like that (not the same, but similar in form & function).

    It's a PITA.
    It's not as easy as just deleting anything that comes from Joerg.

    But you have a good starting point which is (pseudocode)
    If it's not in the whitelist, and
    if the message-id contains "@googlegroups.com"
    then delete it

    My newsreader scripts don't have a whitelist though, so for me, if the message-id has "@googlegroups.com", then I will be wiping it out.

    Is there anyone on the Android newsgroup who posts from Google Groups?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From micky@21:1/5 to usenet@andyburns.uk on Sun Dec 3 12:23:36 2023
    In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 15:49:22 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    micky wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    bad sector wrote:

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

    I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

    What's a "relevant tag"?

    I use thundberbird message filters to add tag #6 to messages coming from >googlegroups (unless it's from someone in a special address book) that
    way I don't see it. But if I want to check whether the filters are
    working, I can view all messages with tag #6

    Very interesting. Copy to a friend who uses Thunderbird.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to micky on Sun Dec 3 13:38:42 2023
    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote

    Very interesting. Copy to a friend who uses Thunderbird.

    Hi micky,

    To help you (and others like you) out...

    1. Best to point your friends on TB to the TB Usenet newsgroup.
    alt.comp.software.thunderbird
    They will answer TB & BetterBird filtering questions.

    One set of web-searchable permanent auto-archives are here:
    <http://alt.comp.software.thunderbird.narkive.com>

    2. And if you're really using Forte as your newsreader...
    I think Ken Blake uses Forte so you can ask him for help.

    I think this is the group for the forte newsreader questions.
    alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent (if you can believe that)
    There are other groups with "forte" in the name though.

    The very top-most post is "Google spam" in fact, just now:
    <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent>
    From: John Larkin
    Dec 2, 2023, 9:53:45 PM (16 hours ago)
    Does anyone know the proper filter expression to kill all
    usenet posts from google groups?

    3. There's also a Usenet newsgroup for all newsreader support.
    news.software.readers
    <https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers>

    Frank and Vanguard often post to that newsgroup to help others.
    --
    I didn't doublecheck all the URLs but they should be close.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to bad sector on Mon Dec 4 01:00:38 2023
    bad sector <forgetski@invalid.net> wrote

    Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
    allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

    Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
    and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
    concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
    as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
    be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
    other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
    spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.

    It's worse than I had originally thought it was gonna be.

    I wrote to the folks on the peering newsgroups who are
    convinced this is coming from Google servers unfortunately.
    *Who is peering all these spams ostensibly from Google Groups?*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/news.admin.peering/c/AgrNUeZuAkw>

    The problem is the following, as they seem to see it.
    1. The spam is coming from Google servers
    2. The peers are nntp servers such as news.highwinds-media.com

    That's bad.
    a. You can't ever get anyone in Mountainview to care
    b. Same with Highwinds (they love spammers who pay money)

    Still, the problem has to be solved in this order:
    1. Google
    2. Peers
    3. Users

    As users, the news.software.nntp folks told me this header
    can't be forged so it's something we personally can filter
    on the "Injection-Info:" header, which they say can't be
    forged.

    I tried forging it but I got the error each time of:
    "Posting article failed: Can't set system Injection-Info: header"

    That means we can individually filter on this header alone:
    Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com;

    I hate doing things that brainless as to filter out ALL posts
    from Google Groups, so I'm hoping there is a way to get a hold
    of someone in Mountainview by phone or email who gives a hoot.

    Is there?

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  • From Allodoxaphobia@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 4 14:49:44 2023
    On Sun, 3 Dec 2023 16:59:07 +0100, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
    Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
    I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

    Here it is absolutely spamfree.

    Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
    allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

    +1 => individual.net

    I did not know this ng was being spammed until I saw today's posts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=B6rg_Lorenz?=@21:1/5 to bad sector on Mon Dec 4 17:33:29 2023
    On 03.12.23 17:37, bad sector wrote:
    On 12/3/23 10:59 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
    Am 03.12.23 um 16:12 schrieb bad sector:


    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers,
    I guess google really wants to muzzle it.

    Here it is absolutely spamfree.

    Your client - albeit so old it already turned to dust - would easily
    allow you to filter it. Or use Solani, E-S or individual.net.

    Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
    and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
    concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
    as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
    be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
    other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
    spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.

    Pure conspiracy theory.

    --
    "Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to micky on Mon Dec 4 13:06:16 2023
    On 12/3/23 11:23, micky wrote:
    In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 15:49:22 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    micky wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    bad sector wrote:

    I see this NG is also being attacked by spammers

    I don't see it unless I view the relevant tag.

    What's a "relevant tag"?

    I use thundberbird message filters to add tag #6 to messages coming from
    googlegroups (unless it's from someone in a special address book) that
    way I don't see it. But if I want to check whether the filters are
    working, I can view all messages with tag #6

    Very interesting. Copy to a friend who uses Thunderbird.

    Interesting idea.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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  • From micky@21:1/5 to walterjones@invalid.nospam on Mon Dec 4 21:36:20 2023
    In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 3 Dec 2023 13:38:42 -0400, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:

    micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote

    Very interesting. Copy to a friend who uses Thunderbird.

    Hi micky,

    To help you (and others like you) out...

    1. Best to point your friends on TB to the TB Usenet newsgroup.
    alt.comp.software.thunderbird
    They will answer TB & BetterBird filtering questions.

    One set of web-searchable permanent auto-archives are here:
    <http://alt.comp.software.thunderbird.narkive.com>

    2. And if you're really using Forte as your newsreader...
    I think Ken Blake uses Forte so you can ask him for help.

    I think this is the group for the forte newsreader questions.
    alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent (if you can believe that)
    There are other groups with "forte" in the name though.

    The very top-most post is "Google spam" in fact, just now:
    <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.usenet.offline-reader.forte-agent>
    From: John Larkin
    Dec 2, 2023, 9:53:45 PM (16 hours ago)
    Does anyone know the proper filter expression to kill all
    usenet posts from google groups?

    3. There's also a Usenet newsgroup for all newsreader support.
    news.software.readers
    <https://groups.google.com/g/news.software.readers>

    Frank and Vanguard often post to that newsgroup to help others.

    Thanks a lot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Newyana2@21:1/5 to bad sector on Wed Dec 6 08:43:02 2023
    "bad sector" <forgetski@invalid.net> wrote

    | Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
    | and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
    | concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
    | as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
    | be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
    | other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
    | spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.
    |

    That would be a lot of work for Google. Usenet is dying,
    anyway. And half the people still here are so old and cranky
    that they just argue all day, or they ask questions to have
    company. I think the main problem is that younger people
    don't want free, open services. It makes them feel "unsafe"
    if they can't upvote, downvote and complain to moderators.
    So it's gradually dying out as people simply age out of it. Have
    you ever tried to explain to a 40-year-old, much less a
    20-year-old, what Usenet is?

    For years there was virtually no spam in Microsoft programming
    groups, even when MS disowned them. But it's started showing
    up since E-S dropped them. There just aren't enough people
    still interested and able to access the groups. That seems to
    draw the spammers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Newyana2@invalid.nospam on Wed Dec 6 12:14:32 2023
    Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote

    Usenet is dying, anyway.

    While that may be true, what I liked about DejaGoogle was that I can find something useful that was said before Usenet dies out for good in the end.
    <https://groups.google.com/g/{put.name.of.archived.usenet.newsgroup.here}>

    That search engine is useful to everyone because:
    a. It doesn't require an account or paying for retention of articles
    b. It works for everyone (even your 99 year old mother)
    c. It only needs a web browser (which everyone has), and not a newsreader

    The problem with all this spam from Google servers is that even finding the
    URI to an article posted _today_ is a mess of wading through that garbage.
    <https://i.postimg.cc/yxpSLVrr/Google-Groups-Usenet-Portal-spam-20231206-730am.jpg>

    I spent hours on the phone trying to communicate with Mountainview on this.
    <https://i.postimg.cc/d388rqkj/google02.jpg>

    What I suggest everyone do is plug that image into a complaint over here.
    <https://i.postimg.cc/k462x02X/spam02.jpg

    Together, maybe we can get Google to at least look at the problem we face.

    Please do this today:

    1. Go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
    2. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that web page
    3. "Send feedback to Google"
    Box 1: "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
    Box 2: "A screenshot will help us better understand your feedback."

    Optionally, you can do the deluxe version of sending feedback to Google.
    A. In tab 1, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
    B. Take a screenshot & save it to a date-related name you can easily find.
    C. In tab 2, go to <https://groups.google.com/g/google-usenet/about>
    D. Click the "Gear" icon at the top right of that "about" web page
    E. In the first box "Tell us what prompted this feedback."
    tell Google the problem in a way that Google 'may' care about.

    For example, tell them something like "Your Google Groups servers
    are allowing obvious off-topic rampant spamming by few individuals
    <https://groups.google.com>
    such that your own Google Groups Server Search Engine
    <http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
    is now useless because a few users are abusing your Google servers."

    F. In the second box upload that screenshot of the first tab.
    G. Press the "Send" button on the bottom right of that second tab.
    --
    No one person can influence Google but together, maybe we all can.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E. R.@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Wed Dec 6 21:43:54 2023
    On 2023-12-06 17:21, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 12/6/23 5:43 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
    "bad sector" <forgetski@invalid.net> wrote

    ...

    So it's gradually dying out as people simply age out of it. Have
    you ever tried to explain to a 40-year-old, much less a
    20-year-old, what Usenet is?

    I've been skiing for the last 35 years.  6-minute conversations with strangers on the lift.  I never found a person who knew what usenet was.
     I don't ask any more.  My usenet 'friends' migrated to Facebook and
    then just fell off the edge.

       For years there was virtually no spam in Microsoft programming
    groups, even when MS disowned them. But it's started showing
    up since E-S dropped them. There just aren't enough people
    still interested and able to access the groups. That seems to
    draw the spammers.

    The purpose of spam MUST be simple vandalism;  we see it in various
    posters who simply want to stir up trouble.  Same as trash in the
    forests and graffiti everywhere.

    Is it spam on Usenet proper, or spam sent to google groups, which
    happens to be connected to Usenet?

    There is a difference.

    New posters come to Google Groups.

    Does any spammer, who are trying to profit in some manner, post to
    Usenet proper?

    The spammers on Usenet proper are probably old farts as we are.

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Wed Dec 6 19:45:52 2023
    On 12/6/23 10:21, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 12/6/23 5:43 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
    "bad sector" <forgetski@invalid.net> wrote

    | Sticking one's head in the sand doesn't impede google,
    | and no one else is behind all the spam as far as I'm
    | concerned because no one else wants to destroy usenet
    | as much as google does. The prime beneficiary has to
    | be the prime suspect. The same problem on many, many
    | other NG's and no one is going to convince me that
    | spammers would be so attracted by a dying platform.
    |

       That would be a lot of work for Google. Usenet is dying,
    anyway. And half the people still here are so old and cranky
    that they just argue all day, or they ask questions to have
    company. I think the main problem is that younger people
    don't want free, open services. It makes them feel "unsafe"
    if they can't upvote, downvote and complain to moderators.

    If true, and I think it probably is, that's incredibly sad.  The world
    holds more possibilities now than ever before, and the little idiots are deliberately limiting themselves.  "Safety" is an illusion and is pretty much dependent on luck, although preparation helps a lot.

    Probably because every website feels so clean and sterile, and setting
    up Usenet requires doing stuff that they're not used to (and TB is the
    only reader I would consider mainstream because of the connection to
    Firefox and being a mail client too)
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wally J@21:1/5 to Carlos E. R. on Thu Dec 7 12:02:09 2023
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

    Does any spammer, who are trying to profit in some manner, post to
    Usenet proper?

    The problem needs to be understood at the level an adult should comprehend.

    They do spam to Usenet proper, but the problem isn't that spam (IMHO).
    It's bigger than that when the DejaNews archives are no longer functional.

    There are 3 solutions to the spam now, but the spam isn't the real problem.
    *Anyone can filter out the spam*

    Self centered people only see the problem as it affects their use model.
    But people who care about others see a much bigger picture, Carlos.

    The problem is that the dejanews archives are being rendered useless.
    That has negative implications you can't possibly comprehend, Carlos.

    That's why it's important to fix this problem.
    And, to answer your question (since I asked it on the peering groups).

    My understanding of the "immediate" problem is...
    a. The spammers have real accounts on Google servers
    b. They are spamming Usenet through the Google Groups' portal
    c. Google is doing nothing about it - but worse...

    Some notoriously badly behaved peers are peering that spam.
    A. Giganews
    B. Highwinds
    C. others?

    There are 3 solutions to the spam, but the spam isn't the real problem.
    1. The main problem is Google is allowing this spam
    2. And then the badly behaved news servers are peering this spam
    3. Such that the rest of us are filtering out all Google Groups' posts
    (except those with better filters, such as those Andy discussed)

    But the spam isn't the problem, Carlos.
    The problem is that the spam destroys the utility of the DejaNews archive.

    For self-centered people, and especially for people like Joerg Lorenz who
    only post to Usenet for their own amusement, losing DejaNews isn't an
    issue.

    But for those of us who care about the population at large, losing the
    utility of the DejaNews archives is a big deal as it affects everyone.

    Yes. Everyone.
    Well, anyone who is intelligent enough to run a search before posting.

    But it also affects people _outside_ of Usenet, Carlos.
    Because it only takes a web browser to run a search.
    And that search result can be read without a news reader
    And the retention is "forever" (in terms of DejaNews' archives)
    And the result can be forwarded to someone else as a link.
    etc.

    None of this occurs to self-centered people, Carlos.
    --
    The beauty of Usenet is you can reach people who care about everyone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)