On 11/5/2023 11:18 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
Or - maybe it's actually really cheap:
Why are we being trolled by these Apple trolls in the Android newsgroup?
They seem to be afraid of the world wide dominance of Android over Apple.
Or - maybe it's actually really cheap:
There is quite a hue and cry over the cost of Apple TB 4 cables. The
linked video shows what goes into such a cable and then one wonders not
why it's so expensive - but rather why it is so cheap.
Alan Browne wrote:
There is quite a hue and cry over the cost of Apple TB 4 cables. The
linked video shows what goes into such a cable and then one wonders
not why it's so expensive - but rather why it is so cheap.
I had watched that video before it was posted here, and yes the quality
of the cable does look very good, but I wonder whether that is truly necessary for "normal" lengths, or just the 2-3 metre flavour? Or maybe
it's just cable pr0n?
I have a TB4 laptop, connected to a dock providing 98W of power, a 4k monitor, a 2.5k monitor, 2.5Gbps ethernet, external backup drive,
camera, keyboard/mouse/kvm switch and plenty of USB ports, all over the
2ft type-C cable that came with the dock, and no issues ... I don't
believe I've ever tried a non-TB cable to see how well that does.
On 2023-11-05 14:20, Andy Burns wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:
There is quite a hue and cry over the cost of Apple TB 4 cables. The
linked video shows what goes into such a cable and then one wonders
not why it's so expensive - but rather why it is so cheap.
I had watched that video before it was posted here, and yes the
quality of the cable does look very good, but I wonder whether that is
truly necessary for "normal" lengths, or just the 2-3 metre flavour?
Or maybe it's just cable pr0n?
I have a TB4 laptop, connected to a dock providing 98W of power, a 4k
monitor, a 2.5k monitor, 2.5Gbps ethernet, external backup drive,
camera, keyboard/mouse/kvm switch and plenty of USB ports, all over
the 2ft type-C cable that came with the dock, and no issues ... I
don't believe I've ever tried a non-TB cable to see how well that does.
More length certainly makes it harder at 40 Gb/s.
There may also be issues regarding signal and noise that Apple wants to achieve that are excessive in practice but more reliable than being too
close to threshold levels.
On 11/5/2023 11:18 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
Or - maybe it's actually really cheap:
Why are we being trolled by these Apple trolls in the Android newsgroup?
They seem to be afraid of the world wide dominance of Android over Apple.
Alan Browne wrote:
There is quite a hue and cry over the cost of Apple TB 4 cables. The
linked video shows what goes into such a cable and then one wonders
not why it's so expensive - but rather why it is so cheap.
I had watched that video before it was posted here, and yes the
quality of the cable does look very good, but I wonder whether that is
truly necessary for "normal" lengths, or just the 2-3 metre flavour?
Or maybe it's just cable pr0n?
Or - maybe it's actually really cheap:
Why are we being trolled by these Apple trolls in the Android newsgroup?
They seem to be afraid of the world wide dominance of Android over Apple.
It's the other way around ... the know-nothing anti-Apple trolls
crosspost their inane nonsense to the iPhone newsgroup. The problem is
there are then some fools in both newsgroups that keep replying to the braindead trolls, which only encourages them
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world market.
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android info. >>>
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than Apple;
the world is not the USA.
On 2023-11-06 08:12, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android
info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
I wasn't discussing sales figures, only the reason why quality has a
price (or rather that video shows why).
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android info. >>>
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than Apple;
the world is not the USA.
On 2023-11-06 05:12, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android
info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
Only because they sell to a market Apple doesn't sell to.
On 2023-11-06 14:21, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 08:12, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke? >>>>> It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android
info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
I wasn't discussing sales figures, only the reason why quality has a
price (or rather that video shows why).
Which doesn't relate to the phrase "Android controls the world market". Apples to oranges :-)
On 2023-11-06 18:38, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-06 05:12, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke? >>>>> It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android
info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
Only because they sell to a market Apple doesn't sell to.
But it does... Apple sells here. Much less than Android, but they sell.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=porcentaje+de+mercado+de+Apple+vs+Android+en+espa%C3%B1a>
About 5,280,000 results (0.41 seconds)
¿Y cómo queda España? Pues según StatCounter, en marzo de 2023 el 77%
del mercado fue de Android y el 21% de iOS.Apr 4, 2023
El mapa que muestra si se usa más Android o iOS: así queda ...
Xataka Móvil
https://www.xatakamovil.com › mercado › mapa-que-m...
Translated:
And what about Spain? According to StatCounter, in March 2023, 77% of
the market was Android and 21% iOS.Apr 4, 2023
I don't believe I've ever tried a non-TB cable to see how well that does.
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android info. >>>
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world market. >>
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS, on the
other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of August
2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android
info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds
the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS,
on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of August
2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because there
are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different models, but
only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different models. The
Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage (some using 10
year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the higher-end of the market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other 1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke? >>>>> It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android info. >>>>>Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world market. >>>>
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds the
largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS, on the
other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of August
2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because there
are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different models,
but only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different models. The
Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage (some using 10
year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the higher-end of the market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
On 2023-11-06 21:22:35 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke? >>>>>> It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android >>>>>> info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting
here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand
what quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds
the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS,
on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of
August 2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because
there are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different
models, but only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different
models. The Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage
(some using 10 year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the
higher-end of the market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
If you actually want a mobile phone comparison that is a bit better
1-to-1, you need to look at Apple vs Samsung (although Samsung does make lower-end phones as well, so it is still a little lop-sided).
In terms of global market share, in October 2023, Apple had 29.67% while Samsung had 24.67%.
In terms of sales, until Q1 2023, globally, the iPhone was outselling Samsung's phones. It was only with those Q1 23023 figures that Samsung
took the lead - partly because Samsung had just released new models and
many iPhone fans would have been waiting for the upcoming model before buying.
As always, it also depends on which statistics you want to believe.
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke? >>>>> It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android
info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting here? >>>>> It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand what
quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds
the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS,
on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of
August 2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because there
are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different models,
but only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different models.
The Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage (some using
10 year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the higher-end of the
market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
On 2023-11-06 13:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you spoke? >>>>>> It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted Android >>>>>> info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting
here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world
market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand
what quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds
the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023. iOS,
on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as of
August 2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because
there are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different
models, but only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different
models. The Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage
(some using 10 year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the
higher-end of the market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
Are you high?
Seriously, are you on drugs or perhaps just drunk?
You need to compare LIKE to LIKE.
Apple doesn't sell cheap phones.
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because there
are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different models, but
only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different models. The
Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage (some using 10
year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the higher-end of the market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
It makes little sense compare a *vendor* like Apple with an *OS* like Android. If Apple would license iOS to other vendors, the market share
of iOS would also increase. However Apple also don't want to give up
full control over the hardware, therefore they don't do this.
As of Q2 2023:
Samsung: 20%
Apple: 17%
Xiaomi: 12%
But these numbers change over time. In Q4 2022, Apple had 22% and
Samsung only 17% global smartphone market share and the positions are
not continously developing in one or another direction - they tend to
change forth and back.
On 2023-11-07 02:30, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-06 13:54, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-11-06 00:09, Larry Wolff wrote:
Maybe you needed to look at what posted this thread before you
spoke?
It goes by the name of Alan Browne and it has never posted
Android info.
It has probably never used an Android phone so why is it posting >>>>>>> here?
It trolls because it doesn't like that Android controls the world >>>>>>> market.
Not a troll, just some fact so the Apple haters will understand
what quality is, and why it costs more.
Nevertheless, it is a fact that globally, Android sells more than
Apple; the world is not the USA.
<https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=world+sales+of+Android+vs+Apple>
About 204,000,000 results (0.41 seconds)
According to StatCounter, the Android mobile operating system holds
the largest market share of 70.77% globally, as of August 2023.
iOS, on the other hand, holds a global market share of 28.52%, as
of August 2023.Sep 9, 2023
iOS vs Android Market Share by Country - Yahoo Finance
Yahoo Finance
https://finance.yahoo.com › news › ios-vs-android-mark...
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because
there are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different
models, but only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different
models. The Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage
(some using 10 year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the
higher-end of the market.
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
Are you high?
Seriously, are you on drugs or perhaps just drunk?
You need to compare LIKE to LIKE.
Apple doesn't sell cheap phones.
Are you high?
Seriously, are you on drugs or perhaps just drunk?
Fanboy, do you insult everybody you are talking with, taking chats
against Apple as a personal insult?
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make
the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to.
Android is a blessing to all these companies as the entire OS is public domain. Google does the heavy lifting for them - and pays Apple a
whopping $18B to be the default browser on Apple devices.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make
the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to.
Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
It is not not the default browser - Google pays apple to be the default search engine. The default browser on Apple devices is still Safari
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-06 22:22:
On 2023-11-06 21:42, Your Name wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-06 13:12:55 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
Of course Android has a bigger market share than iOS ... because there
are "60" Android phone manufacturers with numerous different models, but >>> only 1 iOS phone manufacturer with about five different models. The
Android makers also have lots of low-end cheap garbage (some using 10
year old tech) while Apple concentrates on the higher-end of the market. >>>
The same happens if you compare Ford with Ferrari, or numerous other
1-to-many / low-to-high comparisons.
Wrong comparison. Android also sells phones more expensive than Apple.
It makes little sense compare a *vendor* like Apple with an *OS* like Android. If Apple would license iOS to other vendors, the market share
of iOS would also increase. However Apple also don't want to give up
full control over the hardware, therefore they don't do this.
As of Q2 2023:
Samsung: 20%
Apple: 17%
Xiaomi: 12%
But these numbers change over time. In Q4 2022, Apple had 22% and
Samsung only 17% global smartphone market share and the positions are
not continously developing in one or another direction - they tend to
change forth and back.
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make
the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to.
Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
The integration within and between Apple devices is unparalleled - that
is what this approach brings.
Personally I've repaired and upgraded a couple iMacs (and upgraded their innards) on several occasions. Same with Mac Mini. Indeed, after I
migrate off of this 11 year old one, I will probably give it a new SSD, perhaps as much as 8 GB and put it in a closet somewhere as a server of
some sort.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make >>>> the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to.
Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or replacing
the storage with a bigger one.
The integration within and between Apple devices is unparalleled - that
is what this approach brings.
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted standard - eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap.
If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
On 2023-11-07 15:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make >>>>> the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in >>>>> the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to. >>>>Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or replacing
the storage with a bigger one.
I'm sorry, but that's a very small market.
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
The integration within and between Apple devices is unparalleled - that
is what this approach brings.
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or
nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted standard -
eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy
replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap.
If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
Very few people want to buy a Fairphone.
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-07 15:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but toSteve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
make
the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in >>>>>> the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to. >>>>>
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or replacing >>> the storage with a bigger one.
I'm sorry, but that's a very small market.
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs, maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
A modification can be as simple as installing a new GPS navigator, or
getting a better radio, or an improved mirror, or different rubbers.
Things that many people do.
The integration within and between Apple devices is unparalleled - that >>>> is what this approach brings.
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or
nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted standard - >>> eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy
replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap.
If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
Very few people want to buy a Fairphone.
Hum.
I want to. I don't know if I will.
I want many things.
Same as many people.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make >>>> the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to.
Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or replacing
the storage with a bigger one.
The integration within and between Apple devices is unparalleled - that
is what this approach brings.
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted standard - eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap.
If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
Personally I've repaired and upgraded a couple iMacs (and upgraded their
innards) on several occasions. Same with Mac Mini. Indeed, after I
migrate off of this 11 year old one, I will probably give it a new SSD,
perhaps as much as 8 GB and put it in a closet somewhere as a server of
some sort.
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy any longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
And no, this has nothing to do with "user experience". It is just
keeping control over the hardware and avoiding independent repair shops
being able to do cheap repairs. As a customer you are now forced to go
to Apple if you have any problem with your hardware since many parts
contain serial numbers which are checked by the firmware.
The same applies to iPhones - replacing a display is just not possible without getting a new one from Apple *and* giving them the serial number
of the device you want to put it in. Otherwise the display can not be
used properly.
And if anyone claims this is "neccessary" because of modern design the
users ask for: the Framework laptop or the Fairphone 5 show that this is possible to create devices which are repairable for anyone without
glueing everything together and using special parts which need special "calibration software" by the manufacturer just to be usable in a new
device.
On 2023-11-07 18:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-07 15:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to >>>>>>> make
the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate
well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close >>>>>>> to.
Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or
replacing
the storage with a bigger one.
I'm sorry, but that's a very small market.
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs,
maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
Cars aren't phones.
Cars aren't expected to be small enough to carry in a pocket.
A modification can be as simple as installing a new GPS navigator, or
getting a better radio, or an improved mirror, or different rubbers.
Things that many people do.
Nowhere near most however.
The integration within and between Apple devices is unparalleled -
that
is what this approach brings.
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or >>>> nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted
standard -
eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy
replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap. >>>> If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
Very few people want to buy a Fairphone.
Hum.
I want to. I don't know if I will.
I want many things.
Same as many people.
Yup.
And we can see that many people want iPhones, time after time.
You might sell them on style once, but not over and over.
On 2023-11-07 15:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make >>>>> the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in >>>>> the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to. >>>>Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or replacing
the storage with a bigger one.
I'm sorry, but that's a very small market.
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or
nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted standard -
eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy
replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap.
If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
Very few people want to buy a Fairphone.
On 2023-11-07 18:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs,
maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
Cars aren't phones.
Cars aren't expected to be small enough to carry in a pocket.
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
Now you don't buy the memory or storage separately (though external
storage is not only cheap and fast but so are the interfaces.
Face it: living in 1995 is over.
On 2023-11-08 04:16, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-07 18:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-07 15:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but >>>>>>>> to make
the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate
well in
the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come
close to.
Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily >>>>>>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or
replacing
the storage with a bigger one.
I'm sorry, but that's a very small market.
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs,
maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
Cars aren't phones.
Huh? You brought up the comparison.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But *new* >>> macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy any >>> longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
Now you don't buy the memory or storage separately (though external
storage is not only cheap and fast but so are the interfaces.
I also bought 128 GB of RAM for a workstation.
Face it: living in 1995 is over.
Yes, in 1995 I could not get a workstation with many cores and 64 GB of
RAM which I can extend to 128 or 256 GB if needed or a faster CPU when technology evolved ;-)
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000
USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or
a better graphics card.
On 11/8/23 11:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But
*new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy
any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
Now you don't buy the memory or storage separately (though external
storage is not only cheap and fast but so are the interfaces.
I also bought 128 GB of RAM for a workstation.
Face it: living in 1995 is over.
That's the year my mom and I retired. Win95 was not a bad OS. Best of
the bunch. I kind of wish I hadn't updated that machine to Win7...
Yes, in 1995 I could not get a workstation with many cores and 64 GB of
RAM which I can extend to 128 or 256 GB if needed or a faster CPU when
technology evolved ;-)
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000
USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or
a better graphics card.
There used to be a lot of walk-in electronics stores (Fry's comes to
mind; it hit me hard when they went belly-up). If you want to build
your own you have to order the parts and if they don't play well
together it's not necessarily easy to straighten out. Even when Fry's
was here it took several trips to finally get everything to mesh.
There's a Micro Center maybe 50 miles away. We drove down to look, but didn't buy anything. Too far to drive if it didn't work, and they were
out of a lot of stuff. Prices were nothing special.
We built my computer in 2011. Almost top-of-the-line stuff. Replaced
the drives, graphics card and a few other bits and pieces. Still works fine, unlike the tablets which have a definitely finite lifetime.
Alan, 2023-11-08 04:16:
On 2023-11-07 18:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs,
maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
Cars aren't phones.
Cars aren't expected to be small enough to carry in a pocket.
*YOU* started with cars!
Alan, 2023-11-08 01:18:
On 2023-11-07 15:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 20:24:
On 2023-11-07 14:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-07 17:22:
[...]
That said, Apple's objective is not to make the most money but to make >>>>>> the most of the offerings that appeal to people and integrate well in >>>>>> the Apple "ecosphere" - something no other company can come close to. >>>>>Steve Jobs never wanted to have "open" systems which can be easily
<Classic reactive pulp snipped (ie we've heard it all before)>
The philosophy was always oriented to the user experience.
Well - the user experience may also include the ability to modify a
computer to your personal needs by adding additional memory or replacing >>> the storage with a bigger one.
I'm sorry, but that's a very small market.
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Well - still there is a whole industry selling after market "tuning"
parts for cars.
[...]
Yes - but with the disadvantage that you as a user can change little or
nothing in the hardware. For smartphones this is the accepted standard - >>> eventhough some people complain about the lack of a slot for MicroSD
cards to expand storage in a cheap and easy way or the lack of easy
replacable batteries. This is where products like Fairphone fill a gap.
If no one would like to have this, no one would buy such products.
Very few people want to buy a Fairphone.
Yes, compared to the world wide market. In that case also a very few
people use usenet - so your posts here are completely irrelevant because
you use a medium nearly nobody uses any longer today.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But *new* >>> macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy any >>> longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
Now you don't buy the memory or storage separately (though external
storage is not only cheap and fast but so are the interfaces.
I also bought 128 GB of RAM for a workstation.
Face it: living in 1995 is over.
Yes, in 1995 I could not get a workstation with many cores and 64 GB of
RAM which I can extend to 128 or 256 GB if needed or a faster CPU when technology evolved ;-)
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000
USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or
a better graphics card.
On 2023-11-08 11:44, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-08 04:16:
On 2023-11-07 18:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs,
maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
Cars aren't phones.
Cars aren't expected to be small enough to carry in a pocket.
*YOU* started with cars!
Yes, but analogies only go so far.
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But
*new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy
any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
On 2023-11-09 18:23, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:44, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-08 04:16:
On 2023-11-07 18:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-08 01:18, Alan wrote:
Think of the small number of people who ever modify their cars.
Think of the large number of people that take their cars for repairs, >>>>> maintenance, modifications, to any non-brand garage.
Cars aren't phones.
Cars aren't expected to be small enough to carry in a pocket.
*YOU* started with cars!
Yes, but analogies only go so far.
And you claim to be the arbiter of when the analogy is appropriate or
not, when it suits you. Well, no.
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But
*new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt your claim.
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But
*new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt your claim.
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But >>>>>> *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought whole, huh?
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs.Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by
Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for
current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced for
aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought whole, huh?
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs.Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by
Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for
current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced for
aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought whole, huh?
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>> But *new*Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by >>>>>>>> Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that >>>>>>>> easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for
current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>>
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced
for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought
whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur.
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But
*new* macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by >>>>> Louis Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that >>>>> easy any longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for >>>>> current models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your >>>>> own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt your claim.
...
On 2023-11-09 06:57, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/8/23 11:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But
*new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that easy >>>>> any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
Now you don't buy the memory or storage separately (though external
storage is not only cheap and fast but so are the interfaces.
I also bought 128 GB of RAM for a workstation.
Face it: living in 1995 is over.
That's the year my mom and I retired. Win95 was not a bad OS. Best of
the bunch. I kind of wish I hadn't updated that machine to Win7...
Yes, in 1995 I could not get a workstation with many cores and 64 GB of
RAM which I can extend to 128 or 256 GB if needed or a faster CPU when
technology evolved ;-)
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000 >>> USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or >>> a better graphics card.
There used to be a lot of walk-in electronics stores (Fry's comes to
mind; it hit me hard when they went belly-up). If you want to build
your own you have to order the parts and if they don't play well
together it's not necessarily easy to straighten out. Even when Fry's
was here it took several trips to finally get everything to mesh.
There's a Micro Center maybe 50 miles away. We drove down to look, but
didn't buy anything. Too far to drive if it didn't work, and they were
out of a lot of stuff. Prices were nothing special.
We built my computer in 2011. Almost top-of-the-line stuff. Replaced
the drives, graphics card and a few other bits and pieces. Still works
fine, unlike the tablets which have a definitely finite lifetime.
I also built my own computer, from a place online. The case I bought
from Amazon, and I got a way to big case. It went well, the machine is
built to last more than a decade.
Laptop? No, but I bought a customized Lenovo. All the customization made
in China, then sent to Spain in about a week. Amazing.
I made a mistake, the socket for memory cards is of the small type,
while all my cameras use the big one. I don't remember they offering
both types, so maybe not a mistake of me.
On 2023-11-09 19:35:26 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But >>>>>> *new* macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video >>>>>> by Louis Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not*
repairable that easy any longer and iFixit does not even contain
any repair guides for current models since it makes no sense any
longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
...
The majority of graphics cards are bought by the PC manufacturers
themselves. Apart from serious gamers and professional users (e.g.
graphics and video industries), most people don't change their video
card nor anything else in their computer.
Apple caters for the majority
of users who just want their computer to work, not the niche market of
geeks and nerds who like mucking about inside their computer boxes.
On 2023-11-09 19:35:26 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But >>>>>> *new* macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video >>>>>> by Louis Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not*
repairable that easy any longer and iFixit does not even contain
any repair guides for current models since it makes no sense any
longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
...
The majority of graphics cards are bought by the PC manufacturers
themselves. Apart from serious gamers and professional users (e.g.
graphics and video industries), most people don't change their video
card nor anything else in their computer. Apple caters for the majority
of users who just want their computer to work, not the niche market of
geeks and nerds who like mucking about inside their computer boxes.
On 11/9/23 2:46 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 06:57, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/8/23 11:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
We built my computer in 2011. Almost top-of-the-line stuff.
Replaced the drives, graphics card and a few other bits and pieces.
Still works fine, unlike the tablets which have a definitely finite
lifetime.
I also built my own computer, from a place online. The case I bought
from Amazon, and I got a way to big case. It went well, the machine is
built to last more than a decade.
Cases are a real problem. You don't know about the difficulties until you're actually putting it togeteher. Like trying to stuff all the sata cables in because you're putting in several hard drives. The housing
for the drives looked really good, and then you noticed that all the
cables are mashed together with roughly half an inch of space between
the removable side and the back of the drive housing. The carrying
handle on top which makes it impossible to put your scanner there. The
USB3 sockets in BACK with the USB2 sockets right out where they're easy
to get at.
Laptop? No, but I bought a customized Lenovo. All the customization made
in China, then sent to Spain in about a week. Amazing.
I'm really pissed about my Lenovo tablet. The power switch works fine,
but the plastic thing in the case that pushes it doesn't quite reach. It
may have just worn down. Take the back off, unscrew some stuff, do some other stuff, put it back together and you're OK for a while. And then
the switch stops working again. I've added shims, but they're never
enough to last and I just got tired of screwing around with it.
I made a mistake, the socket for memory cards is of the small type,
while all my cameras use the big one. I don't remember they offering
both types, so maybe not a mistake of me.
It's fortunate that there adapters for just about anything.
BTW, the Keepgo SIM seems to work OK, but it seems to 'roam' more often
than not -- and we're in a heavy AT&T area. The customer support is
very good. The chat function is duplicated in email and vice versa and replies happen within 24 hours.
Can you remove the switch, and get a cable out instead, with a proper external switch? Ok, it is a HACK, but might work.
I made a mistake, the socket for memory cards is of the small type,
while all my cameras use the big one. I don't remember they offering
both types, so maybe not a mistake of me.
It's fortunate that there adapters for just about anything.
Yeah, I bought one, but doesn't work :-(
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07JMTW1YD/
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>>> But *new*Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial >>>>>>>> card.
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by >>>>>>>>> Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that >>>>>>>>> easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for >>>>>>>>> current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>>>
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced
for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought
whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur.
Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
:-)
On 11/9/2023 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>>>> But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video >>>>>>>>>> by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable >>>>>>>>>> that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for >>>>>>>>>> current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your >>>>>>>>>> own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial >>>>>>>>> card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-) >>>>>>>
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I
doubt your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced
for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought
whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur.
Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
:-)
It's you, poseur, you're spread-eagled roadkill, all over the boards.
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But >>>>>> *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
Quick data points for you consider:
"Desktop GPU Sales Hit 20-Year Low"
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low>
In a world where personal computer sales are around 250 million, sales
of only around 7 million graphics cards means the vast majority of
people (more than 97%) aren't buying them.
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/264467/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009/>
On 2023-11-10 04:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-09 19:35:26 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs.
But *new* macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the >>>>>>> video by Louis Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not*
repairable that easy any longer and iFixit does not even contain >>>>>>> any repair guides for current models since it makes no sense any >>>>>>> longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
...
The majority of graphics cards are bought by the PC manufacturers
themselves. Apart from serious gamers and professional users (e.g.
graphics and video industries), most people don't change their video
card nor anything else in their computer. Apple caters for the
majority of users who just want their computer to work, not the niche
market of geeks and nerds who like mucking about inside their computer
boxes.
But we can, which is the point :-)
I would not buy a computer where I'd be restricted from changing
hardware by myself.
Ok, laptops have extra difficulties, but that we can sometimes accept.
Or we can take the machine to a profesional to do the tinkering.
Even if the machine is not for me, I buy or recommend machines to
others, I apply the same rule.
On 2023-11-10 07:50, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do
repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video >>>>>>>>>>> by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable >>>>>>>>>>> that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for >>>>>>>>>>> current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your >>>>>>>>>>> own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial >>>>>>>>>> card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-) >>>>>>>>
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I
doubt your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are produced >>>>>> for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into systems bought
whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur.
Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
:-)
It's you, poseur, you're spread-eagled roadkill, all over the boards.
LOL!
I'm not the one yapping like a small dog.
On 11/10/23 6:27 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Can you remove the switch, and get a cable out instead, with a proper
external switch? Ok, it is a HACK, but might work.
More hacking than I want to do. Maybe thicker shims next time I feel
like playing with it. Hubby just bought a cheap tablet which he decided
he didn't want, and that's better than the Lenovo. It's not like I
actually NEED one, but they're handy for travel -- which I do every few years. Laptop/notebook is better, though.
I made a mistake, the socket for memory cards is of the small type,
while all my cameras use the big one. I don't remember they offering
both types, so maybe not a mistake of me.
It's fortunate that there adapters for just about anything.
Yeah, I bought one, but doesn't work :-(
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07JMTW1YD/
I'm sure the reason Amazon is so successful is the ease of returning
stuff. I have two places within walking distance where I can drop the
thing off unwrapped. I DID put an SD card in an envelope, though.
On 2023-11-10 06:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-10 04:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-09 19:35:26 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>> But *new* macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the >>>>>>>> video by Louis Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* >>>>>>>> repairable that easy any longer and iFixit does not even contain >>>>>>>> any repair guides for current models since it makes no sense any >>>>>>>> longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
...
The majority of graphics cards are bought by the PC manufacturers
themselves. Apart from serious gamers and professional users (e.g.
graphics and video industries), most people don't change their video
card nor anything else in their computer. Apple caters for the
majority of users who just want their computer to work, not the niche
market of geeks and nerds who like mucking about inside their
computer boxes.
But we can, which is the point :-)
No. The point is about how MANY people care about that.
And the answer remains, "Not many">
I would not buy a computer where I'd be restricted from changing
hardware by myself.
Yes. The very fact that you are HERE on a Usenet newsgroup means you are
not a typical consumer of technology.
Ok, laptops have extra difficulties, but that we can sometimes accept.
Or we can take the machine to a profesional to do the tinkering.
Even if the machine is not for me, I buy or recommend machines to
others, I apply the same rule.
So you recommend things for people to use based on how well they'd work
for YOU...
...not how well they'd word for THEM?
On 2023-11-09 12:15, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs.Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by
Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for
current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
Quick data points for you consider:
"Desktop GPU Sales Hit 20-Year Low"
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low>
In a world where personal computer sales are around 250 million, sales
of only around 7 million graphics cards means the vast majority of
people (more than 97%) aren't buying them.
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/264467/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009/>
Well, Carlos?
On 11/10/2023 11:15 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 07:50, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do. >>>>>>>>
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do
repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video >>>>>>>>>>>> by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable >>>>>>>>>>>> that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides >>>>>>>>>>>> for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on >>>>>>>>>>>> your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And >>>>>>>>>>> serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-) >>>>>>>>>
doubt your claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are
produced for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into
systems bought whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur.
Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
:-)
It's you, poseur, you're spread-eagled roadkill, all over the boards.
LOL!
I'm not the one yapping like a small dog.
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all over the boards.
On 2023-11-10 17:16, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 06:19, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-10 04:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-09 19:35:26 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>>> But *new* macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See >>>>>>>>> the video by Louis Rossman I have posted. Current models are >>>>>>>>> *not* repairable that easy any longer and iFixit does not even >>>>>>>>> contain any repair guides for current models since it makes no >>>>>>>>> sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial >>>>>>>> card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
...
The majority of graphics cards are bought by the PC manufacturers
themselves. Apart from serious gamers and professional users (e.g.
graphics and video industries), most people don't change their video
card nor anything else in their computer. Apple caters for the
majority of users who just want their computer to work, not the
niche market of geeks and nerds who like mucking about inside their
computer boxes.
But we can, which is the point :-)
No. The point is about how MANY people care about that.
And the answer remains, "Not many">
I would not buy a computer where I'd be restricted from changing
hardware by myself.
Yes. The very fact that you are HERE on a Usenet newsgroup means you
are not a typical consumer of technology.
:-D
Ok, laptops have extra difficulties, but that we can sometimes
accept. Or we can take the machine to a profesional to do the tinkering. >>>
Even if the machine is not for me, I buy or recommend machines to
others, I apply the same rule.
So you recommend things for people to use based on how well they'd
work for YOU...
Certainly. For two reasons: every recommendation is made on our
experiences, and I will be called to do the maintenance. Also blamed for making a bad choice if something goes bad.
...not how well they'd word for THEM?
On 2023-11-10 17:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:15, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>> But *new*Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by >>>>>>>> Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that >>>>>>>> easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for
current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>>
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
Quick data points for you consider:
"Desktop GPU Sales Hit 20-Year Low"
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low>
In a world where personal computer sales are around 250 million,
sales of only around 7 million graphics cards means the vast majority
of people (more than 97%) aren't buying them.
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/264467/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009/>
Well, Carlos?
Must I answer?
On 2023-11-10 10:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-10 17:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:15, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>>> But *new*Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial >>>>>>>> card.
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by >>>>>>>>> Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that >>>>>>>>> easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for >>>>>>>>> current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>>>
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt
your claim.
Quick data points for you consider:
"Desktop GPU Sales Hit 20-Year Low"
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low>
In a world where personal computer sales are around 250 million,
sales of only around 7 million graphics cards means the vast
majority of people (more than 97%) aren't buying them.
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/264467/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009/>
Well, Carlos?
Must I answer?
Of course not.
It shows a certain intellectual cowardice to ignore a direct rebuttal...
...especially after explicitly asking if I did, in fact, have the numbers.
But you do you, and maybe cowardice suits you best.
;-)
On 2023-11-10 08:29, News wrote:
On 11/10/2023 11:15 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 07:50, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I >>>>>>>>> doubt your claim.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do. >>>>>>>>>
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do >>>>>>>>>>>>> repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the >>>>>>>>>>>>> video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable >>>>>>>>>>>>> that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides >>>>>>>>>>>>> for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on >>>>>>>>>>>>> your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And >>>>>>>>>>>> serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-) >>>>>>>>>>
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are
produced for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into
systems bought whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur.
Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
:-)
It's you, poseur, you're spread-eagled roadkill, all over the boards.
LOL!
I'm not the one yapping like a small dog.
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all over
the boards.
LOL!
Keep yapping, puppy.
On 11/10/2023 1:08 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 08:29, News wrote:
On 11/10/2023 11:15 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 07:50, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:LOL!
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I >>>>>>>>>> doubt your claim.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And >>>>>>>>>>>>> serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC >>>>>>>>>>>> ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do. >>>>>>>>>>
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are
produced for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into
systems bought whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur. >>>>>>
:-)
It's you, poseur, you're spread-eagled roadkill, all over the boards. >>>>
I'm not the one yapping like a small dog.
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all over
the boards.
LOL!
Keep yapping, puppy.
Keep shitting all over yourself and on the boards, poseur.
On 2023-11-10 19:10, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 10:01, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-10 17:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 12:15, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. >>>>>>>>>> But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video >>>>>>>>>> by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable >>>>>>>>>> that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for >>>>>>>>>> current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your >>>>>>>>>> own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial >>>>>>>>> card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-) >>>>>>>
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I
doubt your claim.
Quick data points for you consider:
"Desktop GPU Sales Hit 20-Year Low"
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sales-of-desktop-graphics-cards-hit-20-year-low>
In a world where personal computer sales are around 250 million,
sales of only around 7 million graphics cards means the vast
majority of people (more than 97%) aren't buying them.
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/264467/global-pc-shipments-since-1st-quarter-2009/>
Well, Carlos?
Must I answer?
Of course not.
It shows a certain intellectual cowardice to ignore a direct rebuttal...
...especially after explicitly asking if I did, in fact, have the
numbers.
But you do you, and maybe cowardice suits you best.
;-)
No comment on insults.
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all over
the boards.
LOL!
Keep yapping, puppy.
Keep shitting all over yourself and on the boards, poseur.
LOL!
Laugh it up, loser. Change your adult diapers. If you are an adult.
On 2023-11-10 12:18, News wrote:
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all
over the boards.
LOL!
Keep yapping, puppy.
Keep shitting all over yourself and on the boards, poseur.
LOL!
Laugh it up, loser. Change your adult diapers. If you are an adult.
LOLOL!
On 2023-11-10 10:15, News wrote:
On 11/10/2023 1:08 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 08:29, News wrote:
On 11/10/2023 11:15 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 07:50, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:LOL!
On 2023-11-09 12:36, News wrote:
On 11/9/2023 3:31 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:Following my round the internet, are you, "News"?
On 2023-11-09 21:06, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:You do?
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I >>>>>>>>>>> doubt your claim.
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repairs. But *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> video by Louis
Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not*
repairable that easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for current
models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serial card.
And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my >>>>>>>>>>>>> PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do. >>>>>>>>>>>
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
And you know what share of that alleged "huge number" are
produced for aftermarket sales vs how many go straight into >>>>>>>>>> systems bought whole, huh?
Of course he doesn't. He's a perennial, boring, troll and poseur. >>>>>>>
:-)
It's you, poseur, you're spread-eagled roadkill, all over the boards. >>>>>
I'm not the one yapping like a small dog.
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all over
the boards.
LOL!
Keep yapping, puppy.
Keep shitting all over yourself and on the boards, poseur.
LOL!
On 11/10/2023 3:29 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-10 12:18, News wrote:
Your thought to text diarrhea precedes you, leaving hazmat all
over the boards.
LOL!
Keep yapping, puppy.
Keep shitting all over yourself and on the boards, poseur.
LOL!
Laugh it up, loser. Change your adult diapers. If you are an adult.
LOLOL!
Q.E.D.
On 2023-11-10 16:39, The Real Bev wrote:...
On 11/10/23 6:27 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yeah, I bought one, but doesn't work :-(
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07JMTW1YD/
I'm sure the reason Amazon is so successful is the ease of returning
stuff. I have two places within walking distance where I can drop the
thing off unwrapped. I DID put an SD card in an envelope, though.
Certainly, but that purchase was in Canada through the account of a
relative, while I was staying there, and I did not want to put that
hassle on her. The thing was cheap, and I can try some other time to see
what is going on.
On 11/10/23 9:56 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-10 16:39, The Real Bev wrote:...
On 11/10/23 6:27 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yeah, I bought one, but doesn't work :-(
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07JMTW1YD/
I'm sure the reason Amazon is so successful is the ease of returning
stuff. I have two places within walking distance where I can drop
the thing off unwrapped. I DID put an SD card in an envelope, though.
Certainly, but that purchase was in Canada through the account of a
relative, while I was staying there, and I did not want to put that
hassle on her. The thing was cheap, and I can try some other time to see
what is going on.
Our definition of 'cheap' has definitely changed over the decades. I started working when minimum wage was ~$1, and the system was set in
concrete then. It's really hard for me to adjust for inflation.
I would like to believe that even at the ridiculous price gas is now, inflation and better mileage makes it cheaper than it was in 1957 on a per-mile basis, but I don't want to run the numbers and find out that
I'm wrong.
On 11/8/23 11:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000
USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or
a better graphics card.
There used to be a lot of walk-in electronics stores (Fry's comes to
mind; it hit me hard when they went belly-up). If you want to build
your own you have to order the parts and if they don't play well
together it's not necessarily easy to straighten out. Even when Fry's
was here it took several trips to finally get everything to mesh.
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000
USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or
a better graphics card.
Again, you're implying that because it's relevant to YOU, it is as
relevant for everyone else.
You understand that you are actually a very niche market, right?
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But >>>>>> *new*
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own.
Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt your
claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
The Real Bev, 2023-11-09 06:57:
On 11/8/23 11:48 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000 >>> USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or >>> a better graphics card.
There used to be a lot of walk-in electronics stores (Fry's comes to
mind; it hit me hard when they went belly-up). If you want to build
your own you have to order the parts and if they don't play well
together it's not necessarily easy to straighten out. Even when Fry's
was here it took several trips to finally get everything to mesh.
Well - recently I just ordered parts like a mainboard, memory and a AMD
Ryzen CPU and it works quite well:
<https://arnowelzel.de/en/pc-with-amd-ryzen-7>
Parts are available online and will be delivered within a few days, so
there is no need for electronics stores any longer. I also get all my electronic parts and PCBs online like the one a designed in 2021:
<https://arnowelzel.de/en/hdsp-211x-for-raspberry-pi-first-test>
Alan, 2023-11-09 18:26:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
There still enough people doing so. Otherwise NVidia would not be known
as the company they are.
[...]
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000 >>> USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or >>> a better graphics card.
Again, you're implying that because it's relevant to YOU, it is as
relevant for everyone else.
You understand that you are actually a very niche market, right?
So what? Everything is a "niche" if not the majority of users to the
same. The whole desktop PC and laptop business is a "niche". Many people nowadays only use smartphones and tablets and when I see the statistics
of the websites I maintain, some of them have more than 70-80% of mobile users only.
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
Alan, 2023-11-09 21:06:
On 2023-11-09 11:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-09 18:26, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan Browne, 2023-11-08 05:41:
On 2023-11-07 18:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Yes, with a 10 or 11 year old device you still can do repairs. But >>>>>>> *new*Once upon a time you had to buy the ethernet card. And serial card. >>>>>> And video card. And .... well, nomore.
macs and macbooks are not the same any longer. See the video by Louis >>>>>>> Rossman I have posted. Current models are *not* repairable that
easy any
longer and iFixit does not even contain any repair guides for current >>>>>>> models since it makes no sense any longer to try that on your own. >>>>>>
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
Judging by the huge number of video cards they manufacture, I doubt your >>> claim.
And you know what those numbers are, do you?
Around 20-30 million cards in 2022:
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-maintains-lead-as-sales-of-graphics-cards-hit-all-time-low-in-2022-jpr>
Alan, 2023-11-09 18:26:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
I did buy a video card a few weeks ago... RTX 4060 for my PC ;-)
So? This isn't something the vast majority of people ever do.
There still enough people doing so. Otherwise NVidia would not be known
as the company they are.
[...]
Of course in your world people throw away the whole thing which was 5000 >>> USD in the first place to spend another 5000 USD or more to get a new
model instead of spending 200-500 USD for more memory or a faster CPU or >>> a better graphics card.
Again, you're implying that because it's relevant to YOU, it is as
relevant for everyone else.
You understand that you are actually a very niche market, right?
So what? Everything is a "niche" if not the majority of users to the
same. The whole desktop PC and laptop business is a "niche". Many people nowadays only use smartphones and tablets and when I see the statistics
of the websites I maintain, some of them have more than 70-80% of mobile users only.
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
Alan, 2023-11-09 18:26:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
On 2023-11-11 22:19, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-09 18:26:
On 2023-11-08 11:48, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC
gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of
sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
On 2023-11-11 13:21, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Around 20-30 million cards in 2022:
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-maintains-lead-as-sales-of-graphics-cards-hit-all-time-low-in-2022-jpr>
Read the article:
'Unit sales of discrete graphics cards for desktop computers hit an
all-time low in 2022, according to data released by Jon Peddie Research
this week. While shipments of add-in-boards (AIBs) rebounded in the
fourth quarter, driven by the introduction of AMD's Radeon RX
7900-series as well as Nvidia's GeForce RTX 4080 and GeForce RTX 4090 products — which are the best graphics cards available today — the whole year was exceptionally weak for graphics cards.'
IOW, that number is the the total of all discrete graphics card for OEM
use AND add-in boards.
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
...and IBM got so frightened that they rushed out a computer that could
be copied...
...running an OS that they'd only licensed.
On 2023-11-11 13:19, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC
gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of
sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
But the whole point of this was a discussion of what makes sense for an
OEM such as Apple to sell.
Fact: most people---the VAST majority---don't ever modify the computers
they buy.
Alan, 2023-11-11 22:40:
On 2023-11-11 13:19, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC
gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of >>> sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
But the whole point of this was a discussion of what makes sense for an
OEM such as Apple to sell.
Fact: most people---the VAST majority---don't ever modify the computers
they buy.
Because manufacturers tought them so.
For laptops it was once totally normal to have an easy removable battery
- so if the battery started wearing out after a couple of years, you
could easily replace it. Now it is the standard to have the battery
built in and replacing it is just not an option.
The same applies to memory - first manufacturers started soldering RAM
to the mainboard. Then some started using SSDs as part of the mainboard
which led to used mac books offered with "SSD not working" but without
any chance for repair if you don't have access to a sophisticated
workshop which can replace BGA parts. So the whole device was garbage
just because one single part failed.
Also mobile devices once could be opened easily by just removing some
screws - I still have my old HTC Wildfire S in my drawer which is not
that thick as one might expect, but you can dismantle it just using a screwdriver and maybe a spudger to help separating plastic parts. But
nothing is glued together and the battery can just be swapped if needed.
The argument that mobile devices "must" be glued together because
customers ask for that design is just marketing BS. In fact it is just
much cheaper to use glue instead of screws.
An interesting video about the "anti repair" history of Apple over 15
years by Hugh Jeffreys: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3e-b-7jCYk>
And yes, this is just an example. Many other manufacturers are not much better. Just think of the Microsoft Surface devices which are more or
less completely unservicable as they are also glued together.
Of course you might argue that this only developed to that point,
because customers did not want to modify or repair their devices anyway.
But I think it is the opposite: because customers learn, that modifying
or repairing devices became expensive or nearly impossible (and therefor
very expensive) they stop asking for that. If you have to pay 50% or
more of the original price to get a new display or to have the built in battery or SSD fixed, you will likely just buy a new device instead of getting the old one repaired.
I also have an older tablet here: Samsung SM-T585. It still works fine
using LineageOS. And the older tablets are quite easy to open and repair
as well, you just need a spudger to separate the back from the device,
which is a bit fiddly, but not impossible:
<https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Samsung+Galaxy+Tab+A+10.1+Battery+Replacement/98594>
Alan, 2023-11-12 01:39:
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many other very important inventions as well.
...and IBM got so frightened that they rushed out a computer that could
be copied...
...running an OS that they'd only licensed.
And then came Linux which now runs the majority of online services and
is used as the foundation of many mobile devices ;-).
It may still not be that important on the desktop - but even Microsoft
has a tutorial how to install Linux:
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install>
Alan, 2023-11-11 22:40:
On 2023-11-11 13:19, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC
gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of >>> sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
But the whole point of this was a discussion of what makes sense for an
OEM such as Apple to sell.
Fact: most people---the VAST majority---don't ever modify the computers
they buy.
Because manufacturers tought them so.
For laptops it was once totally normal to have an easy removable battery
- so if the battery started wearing out after a couple of years, you
could easily replace it. Now it is the standard to have the battery
built in and replacing it is just not an option.
The same applies to memory - first manufacturers started soldering RAM
to the mainboard. Then some started using SSDs as part of the mainboard
which led to used mac books offered with "SSD not working" but without
any chance for repair if you don't have access to a sophisticated
workshop which can replace BGA parts. So the whole device was garbage
just because one single part failed.
Also mobile devices once could be opened easily by just removing some
screws - I still have my old HTC Wildfire S in my drawer which is not
that thick as one might expect, but you can dismantle it just using a screwdriver and maybe a spudger to help separating plastic parts. But
nothing is glued together and the battery can just be swapped if needed.
The argument that mobile devices "must" be glued together because
customers ask for that design is just marketing BS. In fact it is just
much cheaper to use glue instead of screws.
An interesting video about the "anti repair" history of Apple over 15
years by Hugh Jeffreys: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3e-b-7jCYk>
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many
other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer. Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it,
maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
Alan, 2023-11-11 22:37:
On 2023-11-11 13:21, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Around 20-30 million cards in 2022:
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-maintains-lead-as-sales-of-graphics-cards-hit-all-time-low-in-2022-jpr>
Read the article:
'Unit sales of discrete graphics cards for desktop computers hit an
all-time low in 2022, according to data released by Jon Peddie Research
this week. While shipments of add-in-boards (AIBs) rebounded in the
fourth quarter, driven by the introduction of AMD's Radeon RX
7900-series as well as Nvidia's GeForce RTX 4080 and GeForce RTX 4090
products — which are the best graphics cards available today — the whole >> year was exceptionally weak for graphics cards.'
IOW, that number is the the total of all discrete graphics card for OEM
use AND add-in boards.
So what? I just linked to the article. I did not say that the numbers of
sold graphics cards are very - just that they are still available and
still a thing for "PC gamers". And as long as integrated solutions will
not get close to the performance of a RTX 4090 this will not change soon.
And "PC gamers" are the guys who run multiple big monitors and don't
have a problem spending more than 2000 dollars for their equipment.
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:17:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason >>>> to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many >>> other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple
products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer.
Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it,
maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
But I agree that it was not Apple which "invented" that - the idea of
having a spreadsheet which allows to put numbers and formulars in a
table is something people come up with at some point anyway. Visicalc
was the first public known implementation - but there were others as
well like Microsoft Multiplan which evolved to Excel, Lotus 1-2-3 and Framework by Ashton Tate which did not only include spreadsheets but
other applications as well.
JFTR: Except VisiCalc I used nearly all of that stuff in the 1980ies
myself ;-)
Alan, 2023-11-12 01:39:
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many other very important inventions as well.
...and IBM got so frightened that they rushed out a computer that could
be copied...
...running an OS that they'd only licensed.
And then came Linux which now runs the majority of online services and
is used as the foundation of many mobile devices ;-).
It may still not be that important on the desktop - but even Microsoft
has a tutorial how to install Linux:
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install>
Alan, 2023-11-11 22:40:
On 2023-11-11 13:19, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC
gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of >>> sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
But the whole point of this was a discussion of what makes sense for an
OEM such as Apple to sell.
Fact: most people---the VAST majority---don't ever modify the computers
they buy.
Because manufacturers tought them so.
For laptops it was once totally normal to have an easy removable battery
- so if the battery started wearing out after a couple of years, you
could easily replace it. Now it is the standard to have the battery
built in and replacing it is just not an option.
The same applies to memory - first manufacturers started soldering RAM
to the mainboard. Then some started using SSDs as part of the mainboard
which led to used mac books offered with "SSD not working" but without
any chance for repair if you don't have access to a sophisticated
workshop which can replace BGA parts. So the whole device was garbage
just because one single part failed.
Also mobile devices once could be opened easily by just removing some
screws - I still have my old HTC Wildfire S in my drawer which is not
that thick as one might expect, but you can dismantle it just using a screwdriver and maybe a spudger to help separating plastic parts. But
nothing is glued together and the battery can just be swapped if needed.
The argument that mobile devices "must" be glued together because
customers ask for that design is just marketing BS. In fact it is just
much cheaper to use glue instead of screws.
An interesting video about the "anti repair" history of Apple over 15
years by Hugh Jeffreys: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3e-b-7jCYk>
And yes, this is just an example. Many other manufacturers are not much better. Just think of the Microsoft Surface devices which are more or
less completely unservicable as they are also glued together.
Of course you might argue that this only developed to that point,
because customers did not want to modify or repair their devices anyway.
But I think it is the opposite: because customers learn, that modifying
or repairing devices became expensive or nearly impossible (and therefor
very expensive) they stop asking for that. If you have to pay 50% or
more of the original price to get a new display or to have the built in battery or SSD fixed, you will likely just buy a new device instead of getting the old one repaired.
I also have an older tablet here: Samsung SM-T585. It still works fine
using LineageOS. And the older tablets are quite easy to open and repair
as well, you just need a spudger to separate the back from the device,
which is a bit fiddly, but not impossible:
<https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Samsung+Galaxy+Tab+A+10.1+Battery+Replacement/98594>
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-12 01:39:
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many
other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer. Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it,
maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-12 01:39:
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many
other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer. Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it,
maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
...and IBM got so frightened that they rushed out a computer that could
be copied...
...running an OS that they'd only licensed.
And then came Linux which now runs the majority of online services and
is used as the foundation of many mobile devices ;-).
It may still not be that important on the desktop - but even Microsoft
has a tutorial how to install Linux:
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install>
Alan, 2023-11-11 22:40:
On 2023-11-11 13:19, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
But my point is: even if it is a niche, it is not *non* *existant*. "PC
gamers" maybe a niche but a quite rich one, similar to a certain type of >> sports cars - not for everyone but vendors can live quite well with the
sales anyway.
But the whole point of this was a discussion of what makes sense for an
OEM such as Apple to sell.
Fact: most people---the VAST majority---don't ever modify the computers they buy.
Because manufacturers tought them so.
For laptops it was once totally normal to have an easy removable battery
- so if the battery started wearing out after a couple of years, you
could easily replace it. Now it is the standard to have the battery
built in and replacing it is just not an option.
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:17:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason >>>>> to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many >>>> other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple
products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer.
Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it,
maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and
those two.
A teacher at university took us to a room where they were testing
aerials for the navy. He wanted to show some computer results or tests;
he was at the back of the room and told those near the Apple something
to turn it on (the monitor, the computer itself was running). We did
not know how. He had to move to the front and do it himself. It was illustrative for all. :-)
A year or three later I was shopping for my first computer. The chaps
at the student association advised: do not buy an Apple (Mac something
or other, I think it was). You will be alone. We can provide you with software for the PC, but we have nothing on Apples. On PCs, we share everything, we have a lot.
It might have been different in your country, I have no idea.
But I agree that it was not Apple which "invented" that - the idea of
having a spreadsheet which allows to put numbers and formulars in a
table is something people come up with at some point anyway. Visicalc
was the first public known implementation - but there were others as
well like Microsoft Multiplan which evolved to Excel, Lotus 1-2-3 and
Framework by Ashton Tate which did not only include spreadsheets but
other applications as well.
JFTR: Except VisiCalc I used nearly all of that stuff in the 1980ies
myself ;-)
On 2023-11-12 18:15:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:17:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a
reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many,
many
other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple
products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer. >>>> Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it, >>>> maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought
Sinclairs and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with
the PC and those two.
The Sinclair / Timex things were hopeless toys with awful keybaords. Similarly with the early Atari models. Smart people bought Commodore
VIC20 and C64 ... the C64 is the best selling computer *ever*.
The PC won out simply because it was cheap (as is often teh case), so
kept big business management and bean counters happy. What they got was
what they paid for though ... cheap, nasty, and full of problems, and
they still are.
On 11/12/23 4:17 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-12 01:39:
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to >>>>> them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
They're really good at marketing. Whenever you see the back of a laptop
in a movie or TV series there's that glowing apple staring at you.
Ducati does the same thing with motorcycles, but that's actually justified!
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason >>>> to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many >>> other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple
products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer.
Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it,
maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
HAH! I used SuperCalc until I had no more need for it. I felt that 123 was an upstart, like WordPerfect piggybacking on WordStar.
Hubby bought a micro in 1977 (Physicist. "Hey, there's GOTTA be money
in this thing." He wrote and sold cross-assemblers and retired at 40,
so he was right. I don't know if I'm Jospehine Public or not, but I definitely looked down on 123. I was actually really good at Ventura Publisher too...
He had no idea why people wanted spreadsheets. Decades later he found a
use for one so he wrote it in C in half an hour. Scientists have blind spots just like anybody else.
{chuckle}...and IBM got so frightened that they rushed out a computer that could >>>> be copied...
The first ones used 5" diskettes that cost $6 each. I think they held
180K.
...running an OS that they'd only licensed.
If only whatshisname had been willing to negotiate...
And then came Linux which now runs the majority of online services and
is used as the foundation of many mobile devices ;-).
It may still not be that important on the desktop - but even Microsoft
has a tutorial how to install Linux:
<https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install>
There's a name for women who will do anything you want for money.
On 2023-11-12 22:51, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-12 18:15:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:17:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason >>>>>>> to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, >>>>>> many other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple >>>>> products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much >>>>> more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer. >>>>> Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it, >>>>> maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and
those two.
The Sinclair / Timex things were hopeless toys with awful keybaords.
Similarly with the early Atari models. Smart people bought Commodore
VIC20 and C64 ... the C64 is the best selling computer *ever*.
Of course the Commodore was much better, a serious thing. But
"millions" of people bought the Sinclairs.
Of course the Commodore was much better, a serious thing. But "millions"
of people bought the Sinclairs.
On 2023-11-12 01:23, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Of course you might argue that this only developed to that point,
because customers did not want to modify or repair their devices anyway.
But I think it is the opposite: because customers learn, that modifying
or repairing devices became expensive or nearly impossible (and therefor
very expensive) they stop asking for that. If you have to pay 50% or
more of the original price to get a new display or to have the built in
battery or SSD fixed, you will likely just buy a new device instead of
getting the old one repaired.
What a conceit you have.
Everyone is just a sheep...
...but you.
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and
those two.
A year or three later I was shopping for my first computer. The chaps at
the student association advised: do not buy an Apple (Mac something or
other, I think it was). You will be alone. We can provide you with
software for the PC, but we have nothing on Apples. On PCs, we share everything, we have a lot.
It might have been different in your country, I have no idea.
On 11/12/23 3:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Of course the Commodore was much better, a serious thing. But
"millions" of people bought the Sinclairs.
IIRC that was around the time I had my Atari 400 and later the 800 computer/game machines. Good old Atari Basic. Remember the paper computer magazines with the Basic programs to type into your computer? And using a tape machine for saving and loading the programs. Those were fun days for
us amateurs...
Using my Chrome Tablet tonight. Let's see if E-S will let me in...
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and
those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you
used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
[...]
A year or three later I was shopping for my first computer. The chaps at
the student association advised: do not buy an Apple (Mac something or
other, I think it was). You will be alone. We can provide you with
software for the PC, but we have nothing on Apples. On PCs, we share
everything, we have a lot.
Yes, because the first Apple MacIntosh (before it was just "mac") was
quite expensive and did not sell very well. The original price was
around 2500 USD in 1984 - in todays value this would be nearly 7000 USD.
It might have been different in your country, I have no idea.
No, the same in Europe. It was a niche product for people with enough
money. The companies I knew in the 1980ies just had machines with CP/M
and later MS-DOS and Windows.
Yes, for DTP Apple MacIntosh was soon established as the reference to be
used for that. But even Aldus PageMaker (the great grandfather of Adobe Indesign) or Quark XPress were available for Windows too and with PCs
you had the choice of using large displays and powerful graphic cards
while Apple computers where quite limited in the beginning.
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:
Alan, 2023-11-12 01:39:
On 2023-11-11 15:07, Carlos E. R. wrote:[...]
The computer industry and users owes a huge lot to gamers. Thanks to
them, the personal computer grew in power tremendously, fast, and
affordable.
Heh, a green text display was good enough for business :-D
The computer industry owes more to Apple.
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason
to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
On 2023-11-12 22:51, Your Name wrote:[...]
On 2023-11-12 18:15:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:17:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a
reason to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen
many, many other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple >>>> products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much >>>> more to IBM, and to gamers.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought
Sinclairs and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with
the PC and those two.
The Sinclair / Timex things were hopeless toys with awful keybaords. Similarly with the early Atari models. Smart people bought Commodore
VIC20 and C64 ... the C64 is the best selling computer *ever*.
Of course the Commodore was much better, a serious thing. But "millions"
of people bought the Sinclairs.
The PC won out simply because it was cheap (as is often teh case), so
kept big business management and bean counters happy. What they got was what they paid for though ... cheap, nasty, and full of problems, and
they still are.
The IBM PC was not cheap. The clones were. Yeah, sure, a mistake by IBM,
but a wonderful one with wonderful results for the world at large. It
won because it was an open architecture. You could freely make the
computers and design and sell new accessories for it, that could work on
any other PC sold by any other maker. With some difficulties, sure.
On 2023-11-12 18:15:06 +0000, Carlos E. R. said:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 13:17:
On 2023-11-12 10:26, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
It was the Apple II (and VisiCalc) that first gave businesses a reason >>>>> to buy personal computers...
Yes - the first. But after the Apple II the industry has seen many, many >>>> other very important inventions as well.
The contributions from Apple that I saw were tiny. Nobody bough Apple
products around here, way too expensive. The (PC) industry owes much
more to IBM, and to gamers.
People when asked knew about Lotus 123, that was the big game changer. >>> Visicalc? Never heard of it. Yeah, maybe the designers of 123 knew it, >>> maybe intimately. Joe public? No.
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and those two.
The Sinclair / Timex things were hopeless toys with awful keybaords. Similarly with the early Atari models. Smart people bought Commodore
VIC20 and C64 ... the C64 is the best selling computer *ever*.
The PC won out simply because it was cheap (as is often teh case), so
kept big business management and bean counters happy. What they got was
what they paid for though ... cheap, nasty, and full of problems, and
they still are.
Alan, 2023-11-12 19:21:
On 2023-11-12 01:23, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Of course you might argue that this only developed to that point,
because customers did not want to modify or repair their devices anyway. >>> But I think it is the opposite: because customers learn, that modifying
or repairing devices became expensive or nearly impossible (and therefor >>> very expensive) they stop asking for that. If you have to pay 50% or
more of the original price to get a new display or to have the built in
battery or SSD fixed, you will likely just buy a new device instead of
getting the old one repaired.
What a conceit you have.
Everyone is just a sheep...
...but you.
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because
the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
On 11/12/23 3:26 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Of course the Commodore was much better, a serious thing. But "millions"
of people bought the Sinclairs.
IIRC that was around the time I had my Atari 400 and later the 800
computer/game machines. Good old Atari Basic. Remember the paper computer
magazines with the Basic programs to type into your computer? And using a
tape machine for saving and loading the programs. Those were fun days for
us amateurs...
Using my Chrome Tablet tonight. Let's see if E-S will let me in...
On 11/12/23 10:36 PM, AJL wrote:
Using my Chrome Tablet tonight. Let's see if E-S will let me in...
Did it?
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and
those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you
used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
[...]
A year or three later I was shopping for my first computer. The chaps at
the student association advised: do not buy an Apple (Mac something or
other, I think it was). You will be alone. We can provide you with
software for the PC, but we have nothing on Apples. On PCs, we share
everything, we have a lot.
Yes, because the first Apple MacIntosh (before it was just "mac") was
quite expensive and did not sell very well. The original price was
around 2500 USD in 1984 - in todays value this would be nearly 7000 USD.
It might have been different in your country, I have no idea.
No, the same in Europe. It was a niche product for people with enough
money. The companies I knew in the 1980ies just had machines with CP/M
and later MS-DOS and Windows.
Yes, for DTP Apple MacIntosh was soon established as the reference to be
used for that. But even Aldus PageMaker (the great grandfather of Adobe Indesign) or Quark XPress were available for Windows too and with PCs
you had the choice of using large displays and powerful graphic cards
while Apple computers where quite limited in the beginning.
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and
those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you
used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just >>>>> not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the >>>>> last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs >>>> and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and >>>> those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you
used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
Nope. Not here
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just >>>>> not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the >>>>> last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of
course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an
Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs >>>> and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and >>>> those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you
used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
Nope. Not here
On 13.11.23 23:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just >>>>>> not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the >>>>>> last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of >>>>>> course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an >>>>>> Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because
basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs >>>>> and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and >>>>> those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you >>>> used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
Nope. Not here
Sure they did. Long before MS played a role.
On 2023-11-14 12:00, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 13.11.23 23:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may just >>>>>>> not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with the >>>>>>> last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of >>>>>>> course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an >>>>>>> Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because >>>>>> basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought Sinclairs >>>>>> and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC and >>>>>> those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you >>>>> used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
Nope. Not here
Sure they did. Long before MS played a role.
Nope. Not here.
On 2023-11-14 12:00, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 13.11.23 23:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may >>>>>>> just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with >>>>>>> the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of >>>>>>> course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an >>>>>>> Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because >>>>>> basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought
Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC >>>>>> and
those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you >>>>> used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
Nope. Not here
Sure they did. Long before MS played a role.
Nope. Not here.
On 11/13/2023 12:55 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/12/23 10:36 PM, AJL wrote:
Using my Chrome Tablet tonight. Let's see if E-S will let me in...
Did it?
It did. If it didn't you wouldn't have seen it. I probably should use
the test groups to check my transmitting problems but then I prefer a
live audience... ;)
On 2023-11-14 12:02, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-14 12:00, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 13.11.23 23:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may >>>>>>>> just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with >>>>>>>> the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of >>>>>>>> course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an >>>>>>>> Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because >>>>>>> basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought
Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC >>>>>>> and
those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you >>>>>> used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc. >>>>>
Nope. Not here
Sure they did. Long before MS played a role.
Nope. Not here.
I already debunked this idea of yours some years ago, yet you still come insisting. I found a few links with ancient information.
On 2023-11-14 12:00, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 13.11.23 23:35, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-13 22:17, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-13 00:16, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-12 19:15:
On 2023-11-12 17:43, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Visicalc was the very first spreadsheet of it's kind and you may >>>>>>> just
not know it any longer since it was already invented in 1979 with >>>>>>> the
last release in 1983. So if you are born in the 1980ies you may of >>>>>>> course never heard of it. But "Joe pulic" likely also never used an >>>>>>> Apple II at that time.
No, I was born significantly earlier. It was not known here because >>>>>> basically nobody here bought Apples. At the time, they bought
Sinclairs
and Spectrums. Or nothing. The revolution here started with the PC >>>>>> and
those two.
Ok, you are not talking about Visicalc but Apple II. Nobody around you >>>>> used an Apple II and *this* was the reason why nobdoy knew Visicalc.
BUSINESSES started using VisiCalc, so clearly they knew about it.
Nope. Not here
Sure they did. Long before MS played a role.
Nope. Not here.
AJL wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
Using my Chrome Tablet tonight [last post]. Let's see if E-S
will let me in. I probably should use the test groups to check my
transmitting problems but then I prefer a live audience... ;)
We all need applause now and then! <clap clap clap>
On 11/14/23 8:52 AM, AJL wrote:
I originally read your [last snipped] post using the Groundhog
newsreader on my Amazon tablet. I had planned to reply using that
tablet (it has 3 Android newsreaders installed). I decided not to
use Groundhog since it messes up the quotes and has to be edited.
So I switched to PhoNews. It apparently didn't like your brackets
(<>) so your 'clap clap clap' was completely gone and couldn't be
reinserted. So I switched to NNTP NewsReader and it didn't even
have your post!! Course it screws up posting quotes anyway and has
to be edited. If only there were a good Android newsreader...
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at
least as good as Thunderbird.
The Real Bev wrote:
AJL wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
Using my Chrome Tablet tonight [last post]. Let's see if E-S
will let me in. I probably should use the test groups to check my
transmitting problems but then I prefer a live audience... ;)
We all need applause now and then! <clap clap clap>
I originally read your post using the Groundhog newsreader on my Amazon tablet. I had planned to reply using that tablet (it has 3 Android newsreaders installed). I wanted to return with a classy joke about how
I didn't really want to get the clap (you can still laugh if you want
to...).
I decided not to use Groundhog since it messes up the quotes and has to
be edited. So I switched to PhoNews. It apparently didn't like your
brackets (<>) so your 'clap clap clap' was completely gone and couldn't
be reinserted. So I switched to NNTP NewsReader and it didn't even have
your post!! Course it screws up posting quotes anyway and has to be
edited. If only there were a good Android newsreader...
So (sigh) I had to get up and walk 3 steps to get this Windows laptop...
:-/
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least
as good as Thunderbird.
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least
as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply
with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least
as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all
know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least
as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply
with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all
know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
Well, for starters, you said "good" and "Thunderbird" in one sentence,
so make up your mind!
But kidding (a bit) aside: You're a Linux junkie, so if you don't mind
a CUI (Character/'Console' UI) newsreader, you could install Termux [1]
(or another Linux environment) and try to build a CUI newsreader like
slrn or tin (which I use (on a computer). It will take a bit getting
used to, but as Usenet/NetNews is all plain text anyway, you might come
to like a CUI newsreader so much, that you'll dump Thunderbird
alltogether! :-)
And there is an X server (termux-x11) and there are quite a lot of
x11-packages for Termux, AFAICT including windows managers, etc., so I
think it should be possible to build a GUI newsreader, possibly even >Thunderbird.
So do you (or your hubby) have any experience in building Unix/Linux
software from source?
'Termux'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux>
and
<https://github.com/termux> etc.
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least >> >> as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply >> > with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all >> know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
I wonder if I could remember my Atari Basic...
Well, for starters, you said "good" and "Thunderbird" in one sentence,
so make up your mind!
But kidding (a bit) aside: You're a Linux junkie, so if you don't mind
a CUI (Character/'Console' UI) newsreader, you could install Termux [1]
(or another Linux environment) and try to build a CUI newsreader like
slrn or tin (which I use (on a computer). It will take a bit getting
used to, but as Usenet/NetNews is all plain text anyway, you might come
to like a CUI newsreader so much, that you'll dump Thunderbird
alltogether! :-)
And there is an X server (termux-x11) and there are quite a lot of
x11-packages for Termux, AFAICT including windows managers, etc., so I >think it should be possible to build a GUI newsreader, possibly even >Thunderbird.
So do you (or your hubby) have any experience in building Unix/Linux
software from source?
'Termux'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux>
and
<https://github.com/termux> etc.
Trouble is for times like now when I'm sitting outside on a bench waiting
for you know who I need an Android newsreader for my Android phone. But
then I guess I should be glad that I have PhoNews even with its warts.
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an end. With
the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I sideload an and try to
run an Android app. Oh well, it was good while it lasted...
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:least >> as good as Thunderbird.
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at
complyThere is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not
with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We
all know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells
and whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
I wonder if I could remember my Atari Basic...
Well, for starters, you said "good" and "Thunderbird" in one sentence,
so make up your mind!
But kidding (a bit) aside: You're a Linux junkie, so if you don't mind
a CUI (Character/'Console' UI) newsreader, you could install Termux [1]
(or another Linux environment) and try to build a CUI newsreader like
slrn or tin (which I use (on a computer). It will take a bit getting
used to, but as Usenet/NetNews is all plain text anyway, you might come
to like a CUI newsreader so much, that you'll dump Thunderbird
alltogether! :-)
And there is an X server (termux-x11) and there are quite a lot of
x11-packages for Termux, AFAICT including windows managers, etc., so I
think it should be possible to build a GUI newsreader, possibly even
Thunderbird.
So do you (or your hubby) have any experience in building Unix/Linux
software from source?
'Termux'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux>
and
<https://github.com/termux> etc.
Trouble is for times like now when I'm sitting outside on a bench waiting
for you know who I need an Android newsreader for my Android phone. But
then I guess I should be glad that I have PhoNews even with its warts.
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an end. With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I sideload an and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good while it lasted...
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least >>>> as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply
with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all
know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
Well, for starters, you said "good" and "Thunderbird" in one sentence,
so make up your mind!
But kidding (a bit) aside: You're a Linux junkie, so if you don't mind
a CUI (Character/'Console' UI) newsreader, you could install Termux [1]
(or another Linux environment) and try to build a CUI newsreader like
slrn or tin (which I use (on a computer). It will take a bit getting
used to, but as Usenet/NetNews is all plain text anyway, you might come
to like a CUI newsreader so much, that you'll dump Thunderbird
alltogether! :-)
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least >>> >> as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply >>> > with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all >>> know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
I wonder if I could remember my Atari Basic...
Well, for starters, you said "good" and "Thunderbird" in one sentence,
so make up your mind!
But kidding (a bit) aside: You're a Linux junkie, so if you don't mind
a CUI (Character/'Console' UI) newsreader, you could install Termux [1]
(or another Linux environment) and try to build a CUI newsreader like
slrn or tin (which I use (on a computer). It will take a bit getting
used to, but as Usenet/NetNews is all plain text anyway, you might come
to like a CUI newsreader so much, that you'll dump Thunderbird
alltogether! :-)
And there is an X server (termux-x11) and there are quite a lot of >>x11-packages for Termux, AFAICT including windows managers, etc., so I >>think it should be possible to build a GUI newsreader, possibly even >>Thunderbird.
So do you (or your hubby) have any experience in building Unix/Linux >>software from source?
'Termux'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.termux>
and
<https://github.com/termux> etc.
Trouble is for times like now when I'm sitting outside on a bench waiting
for you know who I need an Android newsreader for my Android phone. But
then I guess I should be glad that I have PhoNews even with its warts.
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an end. With
the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I sideload an and try to
run an Android app. Oh well, it was good while it lasted...
This is very strange. I can see neither my nor Frank's post, although clearly others can. Every once in a while a post which should be
visible isn't. WTF?
On 11/15/23 12:07 PM, AJL wrote:
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an
end. With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I
sideload an and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good
while it lasted...
I don't like the way Amazon treated my friend when she tried to access
her deceased husband's library.
It eventually turned out OK, but it
should have been trivial. Since I have no interest in Prime video or
other streaming crap I asked if I could get a discount on my
subscription. Hey, worth a shot, right? The chatguy gave me a $30
credit against my next subscription, which is certainly better than
nothing.
On 11/15/23 12:07 PM, AJL wrote:
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
It eventually turned out OK, but it should have been trivial. Since
I have no interest in Prime video or other streaming crap I asked if I
could get a discount on my subscription. Hey, worth a shot, right?
The chatguy gave me a $30 credit against my next subscription, which
is certainly better than nothing.
On 11/15/23 14:07, AJL wrote:
It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an end.
With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I
sideload an and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good
while it lasted...
Is it not possible to jailbreak it? Dang..
On 11/15/23 12:07 PM, AJL wrote:
This is very strange. I can see neither my nor Frank's post,
although clearly others can. Every once in a while a post which
should be visible isn't. WTF?
Trouble is for times like now when I'm sitting outside on a bench
waiting for you know who I need an Android newsreader for my
Android phone. But then I guess I should be glad that I have
PhoNews even with its warts.
Maybe I'll try it for emergency use on my tablet. I just play
Scrabble on my phone while waiting -- Classic Words is perfect and
needs no wifi access.
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an
end. With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I
sideload an and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good
while it lasted...
I don't like the way Amazon treated my friend when she tried to
access her deceased husband's library. It eventually turned out OK,
but it should have been trivial.
Since I have no interest in Prime video or other streaming crap I
asked if I could get a discount on my subscription. Hey, worth a
shot, right? The chatguy gave me a $30 credit against my next
subscription, which is certainly better than nothing.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
for times like now when I'm sitting outside on a bench waiting for
you know who I need an Android newsreader for my Android phone.
But then I guess I should be glad that I have PhoNews even with its
warts.
You could install TeamViewer on both your phone and computer and
control your computer from your phone. That way you can run any
program on your computer from your phone, i.e. also a newsreader on
your computer. I've done this only locally in my home, but you can
do that from any location to any location and quite safely, because
there are no incoming connections. Both devices connect to the
servers at TeamViewer and then get connected to each other.
For the phone side:
'TeamViewer Remote Control' <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teamviewer.teamviewer.market.mobile>
For the computer side: See 'Desktop Client' at
<https://www.teamviewer.com/en-us/products/remote/get-started/>
If you only want to control your computer from your phone, you can install/use 'TeamViewer QuickSupport' on your computer.
If you want to be more flexible, for example control a computer from
another computer and vice versa, you can install/use 'TeamViewer Full Client'.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teamviewer.teamviewer.market.mobile>
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because
the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
Alan, 2023-11-13 18:42:
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because
the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable
batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
You don't understand marketing.
People don't ask for devices without a swappable battery. They also
don't ask for a device which can not easily be opened. Instead
manufacturers tell people what advantages they will get by removing
things like a removable battery or screws to keep devices together, like
for example a water proof device. With swappable batteries water proof devices as possible as well - but that makes the device a bit bulkier.
And since marketing taught people that only slim device is desirable,
nobody wanted to have thicker devices any longer.
In the end customers buy, what is available and what they believe is
"good". And this is not always a logical decision but also influenced by product reviews, what your friends and collegues also use and so on.
When Apple once decided to remove the headphone jack many people
complained about missing a feature and Apple . But at the same time
Apple also invented Air Pods and told the customers that using Bluetooth
is much better than using cables. Before this was the customers choice, afterwords the customers *had* to either buy an USB-C adapter to be able
to use their existing headphones or they had to get a new USB-C
headphone. And many decided to get bluetooth headsets instead.
Yes, afterwards some tech guys explained why it was the right decision
to get rid of that old jack and why using cables makes no sense any
longer since many people prefer wireless solutions anyway. But
personally I totally understand why having a high quality headphones *without* a battery is also viable option: this will never fail because
the battery won't work any longer once.
One day manufacturers also may decide to get rid of USB-C completely and
just keep wireless charging. This may sound stupid at the moment, but
many people who use wireless charging and bluetooth headsets won't miss
USB-C at all.
Manufacturers don't only sell what people prefer, but also design
products and make people buy them. Also keeping people to buy new
products is a big part of that.
On 2023-11-16 04:55:59 +0000, Arno Welzel said:
Alan, 2023-11-13 18:42:
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because
the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable
batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
You don't understand marketing.
People don't ask for devices without a swappable battery. They also
don't ask for a device which can not easily be opened. Instead
manufacturers tell people what advantages they will get by removing
things like a removable battery or screws to keep devices together, like
for example a water proof device. With swappable batteries water proof
devices as possible as well - but that makes the device a bit bulkier.
And since marketing taught people that only slim device is desirable,
nobody wanted to have thicker devices any longer.
For Apple, it wasn't helped by Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive having a huge dislike for visible screws, so everthing started to be glued down
instead.
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least
as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply
with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all
know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
On 16.11.23 06:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-16 04:55:59 +0000, Arno Welzel said:
Alan, 2023-11-13 18:42:
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because >>>>> the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable
batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
You don't understand marketing.
People don't ask for devices without a swappable battery. They also
don't ask for a device which can not easily be opened. Instead
manufacturers tell people what advantages they will get by removing
things like a removable battery or screws to keep devices together, like >>> for example a water proof device. With swappable batteries water proof
devices as possible as well - but that makes the device a bit bulkier.
And since marketing taught people that only slim device is desirable,
nobody wanted to have thicker devices any longer.
For Apple, it wasn't helped by Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive having a huge
dislike for visible screws, so everthing started to be glued down
instead.
You are the biggest idiot and permanently trying to spread FUD and lies.
The worst is that you post in technical groups but you have neither a smartphone nor an Apple computer. Otherwise you would know that the
massive Aluminium chassis of MBPs and MBAs are fixed with visible screws without an exception.
On 11/15/2023 1:52 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Whoa. Interesting concept. But way too complicated for me just to
replace the warts in my PhoNews phone app. Thanks anyway...
On 2023-11-15 22:03, The Real Bev wrote:
This is very strange. I can see neither my nor Frank's post, although
clearly others can. Every once in a while a post which should be
visible isn't. WTF?
Huh?
Hum. You are using an ancient TB. Maybe :-?
On 11/15/23 12:07 PM, AJL wrote:...
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an
end. With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I
sideload an and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good
while it lasted...
I don't like the way Amazon treated my friend when she tried to access
her deceased husband's library.
ebooks?
It eventually turned out OK, but it
should have been trivial. Since I have no interest in Prime video or
other streaming crap I asked if I could get a discount on my
subscription. Hey, worth a shot, right? The chatguy gave me a $30
credit against my next subscription, which is certainly better than
nothing.
:-)
On 11/15/2023 2:03 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Most of my store benches are within free WiFi range. But I seldom come
close to my phone's data allotment so usually don't switch over.
I don't like the way Amazon treated my friend when she tried to
access her deceased husband's library. It eventually turned out OK,
but it should have been trivial.
Amazon's a BIG company. When I get pissed at them and think about
quitting I realize that I'm not even a flyspeck on their windshield. So
it would hurt me a LOT worse than them. I do use a lot of their services
so the good still outweighs the bad for ME...
Since I have no interest in Prime video or other streaming crap I
asked if I could get a discount on my subscription. Hey, worth a
shot, right? The chatguy gave me a $30 credit against my next
subscription, which is certainly better than nothing.
I make a similar call to Cox every year. It gets me a $30 per month
discount for the following year. Well worth the call time IMO...
On 15.11.23 17:54, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
Is there a consensus on a GOOD android newsreader? Has to be at least >>>> as good as Thunderbird.
There is none. The ones that exist have all severe downsides.
Neither PiaHong nor the others are satisfactory and they do not comply
with the Usenet standards. Sorry to say.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one? We all
know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy bells and
whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
This market is shrinking and already measured in Dozens not Thousands.
On 11/15/23 2:15 PM, AJL wrote:
On 11/15/2023 2:03 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Most of my store benches are within free WiFi range. But I seldom come
close to my phone's data allotment so usually don't switch over.
I don't like the way Amazon treated my friend when she tried to
access her deceased husband's library. It eventually turned out OK,
but it should have been trivial.
Amazon's a BIG company. When I get pissed at them and think about
quitting I realize that I'm not even a flyspeck on their windshield. So
it would hurt me a LOT worse than them. I do use a lot of their services
so the good still outweighs the bad for ME...
Fast free shipping (instant gratification) is worth having -- no need to >figure in shipping cost when determining goodness of bargain.
Since I have no interest in Prime video or other streaming crap I
asked if I could get a discount on my subscription. Hey, worth a
shot, right? The chatguy gave me a $30 credit against my next
subscription, which is certainly better than nothing.
I make a similar call to Cox every year. It gets me a $30 per month
discount for the following year. Well worth the call time IMO...
Charter (cable) used to do that, but stopped a few years ago. Now AT&T
has run fiber to my house (first year discount) so I can alternate ISP >introductory rates. Until then they were a monopoly and the only
alternative was dialup -- which I can still get from a GOOD dialup
company for $100/year!
Oh wait -- I no longer have actual phone lines, just cable and fiber.
AT&T yanked the ancient copper when they put in fiber. Oh well...
On 11/15/23 1:13 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-15 22:03, The Real Bev wrote:
This is very strange. I can see neither my nor Frank's post,
although clearly others can. Every once in a while a post which
should be visible isn't. WTF?
Huh?
Post is listed, but nothing happens when you click on it. Control-u
shows a blank page. Happens rarely and randomly, but this is the first
time it happened to one of MY posts.
Hum. You are using an ancient TB. Maybe :-?
Of course (68.12), with lots of extensions and .css hacks. I got tired
of losing stuff. These invisible posts started within the last 6 months
or so. I had assumed that the writers had deleted their posts, but in
my own case I was certainly wrong.
On 11/15/23 12:07 PM, AJL wrote:...
On 11/15/23 11:31 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/15/23 7:24 AM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
On 15.11.23 00:45, The Real Bev wrote:
BTW It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an
end. With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I
sideload an and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good
while it lasted...
I don't like the way Amazon treated my friend when she tried to
access her deceased husband's library.
ebooks?
Yes.
So NOBODY here who wants such a thing is capable of writing one?
We all know how they're supposed to work and we don't need fancy
bells and whistles. Come on, guys, step up...
On 2023-11-16 18:02, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/15/23 1:13 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-15 22:03, The Real Bev wrote:
This is very strange. I can see neither my nor Frank's post,
although clearly others can. Every once in a while a post which
should be visible isn't. WTF?
Huh?
Post is listed, but nothing happens when you click on it. Control-u
shows a blank page. Happens rarely and randomly, but this is the first
time it happened to one of MY posts.
Hum. You are using an ancient TB. Maybe :-?
Of course (68.12), with lots of extensions and .css hacks. I got tired
of losing stuff. These invisible posts started within the last 6 months >> or so. I had assumed that the writers had deleted their posts, but in
my own case I was certainly wrong.
Probably the old version of Thunderbird is not related, but any support channel would say that you have to upgrade before they talk to you :-P
I would try to install aside a copy of the current TB version. A
portable install, I think they call it; it goes onto an USB stick and
doesn't touch your current install on the hard disk. But to be safe you
can make a backup of your current profile and message base; sorry, I
don't remember what directory is used on Windows for this.
Then, try the news on that new install, see if the problem reproduces
(using the same nntp server).
Alan, 2023-11-13 18:42:
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because
the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable
batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
You don't understand marketing.
People don't ask for devices without a swappable battery. They also
don't ask for a device which can not easily be opened. Instead
manufacturers tell people what advantages they will get by removing
things like a removable battery or screws to keep devices together, like
for example a water proof device. With swappable batteries water proof devices as possible as well - but that makes the device a bit bulkier.
And since marketing taught people that only slim device is desirable,
nobody wanted to have thicker devices any longer.
In the end customers buy, what is available and what they believe is
"good". And this is not always a logical decision but also influenced by product reviews, what your friends and collegues also use and so on.
When Apple once decided to remove the headphone jack many people
complained about missing a feature and Apple . But at the same time
Apple also invented Air Pods and told the customers that using Bluetooth
is much better than using cables. Before this was the customers choice, afterwords the customers *had* to either buy an USB-C adapter to be able
to use their existing headphones or they had to get a new USB-C
headphone. And many decided to get bluetooth headsets instead.
Yes, afterwards some tech guys explained why it was the right decision
to get rid of that old jack and why using cables makes no sense any
longer since many people prefer wireless solutions anyway. But
personally I totally understand why having a high quality headphones *without* a battery is also viable option: this will never fail because
the battery won't work any longer once.
One day manufacturers also may decide to get rid of USB-C completely and
just keep wireless charging. This may sound stupid at the moment, but
many people who use wireless charging and bluetooth headsets won't miss
USB-C at all.
Manufacturers don't only sell what people prefer, but also design
products and make people buy them. Also keeping people to buy new
products is a big part of that.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
On 16.11.23 06:22, Your Name wrote:
On 2023-11-16 04:55:59 +0000, Arno Welzel said:
Alan, 2023-11-13 18:42:
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because >>>>>> the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable
batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
You don't understand marketing.
People don't ask for devices without a swappable battery. They also
don't ask for a device which can not easily be opened. Instead
manufacturers tell people what advantages they will get by removing
things like a removable battery or screws to keep devices together, like >>>> for example a water proof device. With swappable batteries water proof >>>> devices as possible as well - but that makes the device a bit bulkier. >>>> And since marketing taught people that only slim device is desirable,
nobody wanted to have thicker devices any longer.
For Apple, it wasn't helped by Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive having a huge
dislike for visible screws, so everthing started to be glued down
instead.
You are the biggest idiot and permanently trying to spread FUD and lies.
The worst is that you post in technical groups but you have neither a
smartphone nor an Apple computer. Otherwise you would know that the
massive Aluminium chassis of MBPs and MBAs are fixed with visible screws
without an exception.
But jughead, these groups are for mobile phones, not macs.
Are you lost?
On 2023-11-16 04:55:59 +0000, Arno Welzel said:
Alan, 2023-11-13 18:42:
On 2023-11-13 00:00, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
What's your theory about the changes in repairability then? The
manufacturers did all this just for the good of the customers because
the *want* to have devices which can not be repaired easily?
My theory is that people aren't sheep.
The change happened quite slowly.
There was a time when there were lots of laptops that had removable
batteries. If people had overwhelmingly preferred them, then
manufacturers would have kept selling them.
You don't understand marketing.
People don't ask for devices without a swappable battery. They also
don't ask for a device which can not easily be opened. Instead
manufacturers tell people what advantages they will get by removing
things like a removable battery or screws to keep devices together, like
for example a water proof device. With swappable batteries water proof
devices as possible as well - but that makes the device a bit bulkier.
And since marketing taught people that only slim device is desirable,
nobody wanted to have thicker devices any longer.
For Apple, it wasn't helped by Steve Jobs and Johnny Ive having a huge dislike for visible screws, so everthing started to be glued down instead.
In the end customers buy, what is available and what they believe is
"good". And this is not always a logical decision but also influenced by
product reviews, what your friends and collegues also use and so on.
Similar happed with cars. Some fool decided everyone wanted an SUV or "crossover", so every manufacturers started making them and there are
now few real cars available to buy. :-(
On 2023-11-15 21:22, Your Name wrote:
Similar happed with cars. Some fool decided everyone wanted an SUV or
"crossover", so every manufacturers started making them and there are
now few real cars available to buy. :-(
Ummmmm.... ...no.
SOME company came out with the first crossover...
...and it sold well enough that other companies decided to build them.
On 11/16/23 1:40 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-15 21:22, Your Name wrote:
Similar happed with cars. Some fool decided everyone wanted an SUV or
"crossover", so every manufacturers started making them and there are
now few real cars available to buy. :-(
Ummmmm.... ...no.
SOME company came out with the first crossover...
...and it sold well enough that other companies decided to build them.
When they first came out I really wanted a RAV4. Toyota, tiny, seemed
to have a reasonable amount of room inside to haul stuff, and kept the
spare tire out of the way. Time passed and they got bigger and bigger
and ultimately the only significant difference from a Corolla was an
inch of ground clearance and a bigger engine. I bought a Corolla.
On 2023-11-16 14:05, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/16/23 1:40 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-15 21:22, Your Name wrote:
Similar happed with cars. Some fool decided everyone wanted an SUV or >>>> "crossover", so every manufacturers started making them and there are >>>> now few real cars available to buy. :-(
Ummmmm.... ...no.
SOME company came out with the first crossover...
...and it sold well enough that other companies decided to build them.
When they first came out I really wanted a RAV4. Toyota, tiny, seemed
to have a reasonable amount of room inside to haul stuff, and kept the
spare tire out of the way. Time passed and they got bigger and bigger
and ultimately the only significant difference from a Corolla was an
inch of ground clearance and a bigger engine. I bought a Corolla.
That does seem to be a pattern with many auto makers: introduce a small
car, then make it bigger and bigger until there's now enough space for a
new smallest car in the range.
But amazingly, you chose not to buy a RAV4 once it changed...
...and there are people here who insist that that choice wasn't possible
for you.
On 11/16/23 2:10 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-16 14:05, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/16/23 1:40 PM, Alan wrote:car, then make it bigger and bigger until there's now enough space for a
On 2023-11-15 21:22, Your Name wrote:That does seem to be a pattern with many auto makers: introduce a small
Similar happed with cars. Some fool decided everyone wanted an SUV or >>>>> >>>> "crossover", so every manufacturers started making them and there >>>>> are >>>> now few real cars available to buy. :-(
Ummmmm.... ...no.
SOME company came out with the first crossover...
...and it sold well enough that other companies decided to build them. >>>>> When they first came out I really wanted a RAV4. Toyota, tiny, seemed >>>>> >> to have a reasonable amount of room inside to haul stuff, and kept >>>>> the >> spare tire out of the way. Time passed and they got bigger and >>>>> bigger >> and ultimately the only significant difference from a Corolla >>>>> was an >> inch of ground clearance and a bigger engine. I bought a
Corolla.
new smallest car in the range.
But amazingly, you chose not to buy a RAV4 once it changed...for you.
...and there are people here who insist that that choice wasn't possible
I don't understand that. I am NOTHING if not sensible!
If I weren't sensible I'd buy a Honds S2000.
On 2023-11-16 22:39:25 +0000, The Real Bev said:
On 11/16/23 2:10 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-16 14:05, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/16/23 1:40 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-15 21:22, Your Name wrote:That does seem to be a pattern with many auto makers: introduce a small >>> car, then make it bigger and bigger until there's now enough space for a >>> new smallest car in the range.
Similar happed with cars. Some fool decided everyone wanted an SUV or >>>>>> >>>> "crossover", so every manufacturers started making them and there >>>>>> are >>>> now few real cars available to buy. :-(
Ummmmm.... ...no.
SOME company came out with the first crossover...
...and it sold well enough that other companies decided to build them. >>>>>> When they first came out I really wanted a RAV4. Toyota, tiny, seemed >>>>>> >> to have a reasonable amount of room inside to haul stuff, and kept >>>>>> the >> spare tire out of the way. Time passed and they got bigger and >>>>>> bigger >> and ultimately the only significant difference from a Corolla >>>>>> was an >> inch of ground clearance and a bigger engine. I bought a >>>>>> Corolla.
But amazingly, you chose not to buy a RAV4 once it changed...
...and there are people here who insist that that choice wasn't possible >>> for you.
I don't understand that. I am NOTHING if not sensible!
If I weren't sensible I'd buy a Honds S2000.
Nope, that would not be sensible because the parts are difficult /
impossible and expensive to get.
You could buy the new Honda S2000 that
is rumoured to be being released soon ... but it's likely to be nothing
like the original in anything but name. :-(
On 2023-11-15 20:55, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
In the end customers buy, what is available and what they believe is
"good". And this is not always a logical decision but also influenced by
product reviews, what your friends and collegues also use and so on.
And out comes the arrogance. Everyone is a gullible rube... ...but you?
When Apple once decided to remove the headphone jack many people
complained about missing a feature and Apple . But at the same time
Apple also invented Air Pods and told the customers that using Bluetooth
is much better than using cables. Before this was the customers choice,
afterwords the customers *had* to either buy an USB-C adapter to be able
to use their existing headphones or they had to get a new USB-C
headphone. And many decided to get bluetooth headsets instead.
But what you fail to understand is that those people could CHOOSE to buy
some other phone that still had a headphone jack.
Manufacturers don't only sell what people prefer, but also design
products and make people buy them. Also keeping people to buy new
products is a big part of that.
They don't...
...EVER...
...MAKE anyone buy anything.
It appears my Amazon tablet Android days will be coming to an end.
With the latest OS update it now says unauthorized when I sideload an
and try to run an Android app. Oh well, it was good while it
lasted...
On 11/15/23 1:13 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-15 22:03, The Real Bev wrote:
This is very strange. I can see neither my nor Frank's post, although
clearly others can. Every once in a while a post which should be
visible isn't. WTF?
Huh?
Post is listed, but nothing happens when you click on it. Control-u
shows a blank page. Happens rarely and randomly, but this is the first
time it happened to one of MY posts.
That's the reason why I use a Google Pixel because this seemed to be the
best choice after reading many product reviews and asking others who
already own this device.
Alan, 2023-11-16 22:38:
On 2023-11-15 20:55, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
In the end customers buy, what is available and what they believe is
"good". And this is not always a logical decision but also influenced by >>> product reviews, what your friends and collegues also use and so on.
And out comes the arrogance. Everyone is a gullible rube... ...but you?
No - why do you think so? I am also influenced by product reviews etc..
That's the reason why I use a Google Pixel because this seemed to be the
best choice after reading many product reviews and asking others who
already own this device.
When Apple once decided to remove the headphone jack many people
complained about missing a feature and Apple . But at the same time
Apple also invented Air Pods and told the customers that using Bluetooth >>> is much better than using cables. Before this was the customers choice,
afterwords the customers *had* to either buy an USB-C adapter to be able >>> to use their existing headphones or they had to get a new USB-C
headphone. And many decided to get bluetooth headsets instead.
But what you fail to understand is that those people could CHOOSE to buy
some other phone that still had a headphone jack.
Apple still sells iPhones and in certain regions iPhones even start to
become really popular - so the missing headphone jack seems not to be a problem.
[...]
Manufacturers don't only sell what people prefer, but also design
products and make people buy them. Also keeping people to buy new
products is a big part of that.
They don't...
...EVER...
...MAKE anyone buy anything.
They do. That's what marketing is about. Convincing people that your
product is the best and they should buy it.
Are your really that naive to believe that all customers will always
ignore advertising and product reviews? And did you ever think about the questions, why even well YouTube influencers with a wider reach can ask
for quite high prices for product placement? Manufacturers wouldn't pay
for such things if it wouldn't have any effect at all.
But amazingly, you chose not to buy a RAV4 once it changed...for you.
...and there are people here who insist that that choice wasn't
possible
I don't understand that. I am NOTHING if not sensible!
If I weren't sensible I'd buy a Honds S2000.
Nope, that would not be sensible because the parts are difficult /
impossible and expensive to get.
And the tires worthy of the car cost a small fortune. Nonetheless, it's
the most fun I've ever had driving a car even if I botched more than
half the shifts. SIX gears? In a 3" square area? My Corolla is a lot
of fun on that mountain road, but the S2K was better.
I asked the friend to give my car-mad grandson a ride, but only scare
him a little. He was happy.
On 2023-11-16 22:55, The Real Bev wrote:
But amazingly, you chose not to buy a RAV4 once it changed...for you.
...and there are people here who insist that that choice wasn't
possible
I don't understand that. I am NOTHING if not sensible!
If I weren't sensible I'd buy a Honds S2000.
Nope, that would not be sensible because the parts are difficult /
impossible and expensive to get.
And the tires worthy of the car cost a small fortune. Nonetheless, it's >> the most fun I've ever had driving a car even if I botched more than
half the shifts. SIX gears? In a 3" square area? My Corolla is a lot >> of fun on that mountain road, but the S2K was better.
I asked the friend to give my car-mad grandson a ride, but only scare
him a little. He was happy.
I've been a race driving instructor since 2016. I get a chance to scare people "just a little" on a semi-regular basis.
On 11/17/23 9:48 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-16 22:55, The Real Bev wrote:
But amazingly, you chose not to buy a RAV4 once it changed...for you.
...and there are people here who insist that that choice wasn't
possible
I don't understand that. I am NOTHING if not sensible!
If I weren't sensible I'd buy a Honds S2000.
Nope, that would not be sensible because the parts are difficult /
impossible and expensive to get.
And the tires worthy of the car cost a small fortune. Nonetheless,
it's the most fun I've ever had driving a car even if I botched more
than half the shifts. SIX gears? In a 3" square area? My Corolla
is a lot of fun on that mountain road, but the S2K was better.
I asked the friend to give my car-mad grandson a ride, but only scare
him a little. He was happy.
I've been a race driving instructor since 2016. I get a chance to scare
people "just a little" on a semi-regular basis.
My other grandson scared me in his drag-designed car. Minor
differential problem resulting in tiny skid to the left. Ultimately the
car broke in half. We had told him about the danger in buying 'salvage' cars previously, but kids know everything.
My S2000 friend scared me the first time, but I've ridden with her long enough to know she's really good, has been driving this way for a long
time (are you familiar with Frogger?) and has no death wish -- so I just
sit back and enjoy the ride that I'm not capable of doing myself. Not
sure that I ever was...
On 2023-11-17 15:05, The Real Bev wrote:
On 11/17/23 9:48 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-11-16 22:55, The Real Bev wrote:
I asked the friend to give my car-mad grandson a ride, but only scare >>>> him a little. He was happy.
I've been a race driving instructor since 2016. I get a chance to scare
people "just a little" on a semi-regular basis.
My other grandson scared me in his drag-designed car. Minor
differential problem resulting in tiny skid to the left. Ultimately the >> car broke in half. We had told him about the danger in buying 'salvage' >> cars previously, but kids know everything.
My S2000 friend scared me the first time, but I've ridden with her long
enough to know she's really good, has been driving this way for a long
time (are you familiar with Frogger?) and has no death wish -- so I just
sit back and enjoy the ride that I'm not capable of doing myself. Not
sure that I ever was...
Honest advice:
Go out with a professional and learn more about what you and your car
are capable of. It could save your life some day.
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