1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
Stan Brown wrote:
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
If it is enabled and you accidentally go over the SMS limit, or add
something that isn't allowed in SMS, it sends it as an MMS and costs a
mint. There may be a way to prevent that now, but I couldn't find one at
the time it first appeared. I found another app that only does SMS (Spamhound) and which enables blocking of commercial and other spam. I'm
sure there are others which are SMS only.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
It was common for apps to tell you when the current message would be
sent as MMS.
I do remember an issue around the android 4.x era where the stock
messaging app would 'promote' an SMS message sent to multiple recipients
into an MMS message for group chat.
But google hadn't realised that SMS and MMS were/are charged very
differently in some countries (e.g. the UK) they must have got plenty of complaints as it was soon reversed.
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
It was common for apps to tell you when the current message would be
sent as MMS.
Am 28.10.23 um 20:10 schrieb Stan Brown:
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 28.10.23 um 20:10 schrieb Stan Brown:
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 11:10:28 -0700, Stan Brown wrote:
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages
for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in
the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging
are free and unlimited with my plan. (If you're curious, check out <Visible.com>, a subsidiary of Verizon.) I've already sent the
occasional image or video to family via Messaging, so I know that
works without RCS Chats. Being a dinosaur, I don't use any social
media apps or websites, so being able to do the equivalent in
Messaging doesn't attract me.
Somebody mentioned "read receipts" in email. It's a long time since I
used any other mail client, but in Thunderbird, which I've been
using for years I have both receipts and viewing of remote images
disabled. My email provider doesn't even have a setting: it never
responds to read-receipt requests.
After reading what everyone wrote, I have dismissed the Google
prompt. Hopefully it won't reappear every time I open Messages!
Activating it doesn't harm you in anyway. You simply have some more
features, and maybe some of your correspondents do need it.
I have relatives in Canada. RCS doesn't directly benefit them, but it
does benefit me, a lot, if they activate it.
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely. >>>>
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
You have claimed that many times, your ideas were debunked by several posters, but you insist in your false claims.
So your facts are just your personal opinions.
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely. >>>
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
You have claimed that many times, your ideas were debunked by several posters, but you insist in your false claims.
So your facts are just your personal opinions.
Am 29.10.23 um 20:09 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot
receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market
completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
You have claimed that many times, your ideas were debunked by several
posters, but you insist in your false claims.
So your facts are just your personal opinions.
Google supports RCS on Android devices with its Android SMS app
Messages. In April 2018, it was reported that Google would be
transferring the team that was working on its Google Allo messaging
service to work on a wider RCS implementation.[19][20][21] In June 2019, Google announced that it would begin to deploy RCS on an opt-in basis
via the Messages app, with service compliant with the Universal Profile
and hosted by Google rather than the user's carrier. The rollout of this functionality began in France and the United Kingdom.[19][20] Google initially branded RCS functionality under the generic term "chat
features"; in February 2023 Google began to replace references to "chat"
with "RCS".[7]
In response to concerns over the lack of end-to-end encryption in RCS,
Google stated that it would only retain message data in transit until it
is delivered to the recipient.
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services
*Nobody needs it*!
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>>>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely. >>>>>
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
You have claimed that many times, your ideas were debunked by several
posters, but you insist in your false claims.
So your facts are just your personal opinions.
Don't be so hard on poor Jörg! He can't help it that he has no display or/and no eyes or/and no <deleted>, can he!?
On 2023-10-29 21:34, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 20:09 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot
receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market
completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
You have claimed that many times, your ideas were debunked by several
posters, but you insist in your false claims.
So your facts are just your personal opinions.
Google supports RCS on Android devices with its Android SMS app
Messages. In April 2018, it was reported that Google would be
transferring the team that was working on its Google Allo messaging
service to work on a wider RCS implementation.[19][20][21] In June 2019,
Google announced that it would begin to deploy RCS on an opt-in basis
via the Messages app, with service compliant with the Universal Profile
and hosted by Google rather than the user's carrier. The rollout of this
functionality began in France and the United Kingdom.[19][20] Google
initially branded RCS functionality under the generic term "chat
features"; in February 2023 Google began to replace references to "chat"
with "RCS".[7]
In response to concerns over the lack of end-to-end encryption in RCS,
Google stated that it would only retain message data in transit until it
is delivered to the recipient.
So what? :-D
Without RCS, the default messaging app doesn't ever encrypt anything.
SMSs are sent in the clear.
And we are talking of the default messaging application.
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages
for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in
the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging
are free and unlimited with my plan.
On 2023-10-29 21:34, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Google supports RCS on Android devices with its Android SMS app
Messages. In April 2018, it was reported that Google would be
transferring the team that was working on its Google Allo messaging
service to work on a wider RCS implementation.[19][20][21] In June 2019,
Google announced that it would begin to deploy RCS on an opt-in basis
via the Messages app, with service compliant with the Universal Profile
and hosted by Google rather than the user's carrier. The rollout of this
functionality began in France and the United Kingdom.[19][20] Google
initially branded RCS functionality under the generic term "chat
features"; in February 2023 Google began to replace references to "chat"
with "RCS".[7]
In response to concerns over the lack of end-to-end encryption in RCS,
Google stated that it would only retain message data in transit until it
is delivered to the recipient.
So what? :-D
Without RCS, the default messaging app doesn't ever encrypt anything.
SMSs are sent in the clear.
And we are talking of the default messaging application.
"Never argue with a fool, for he is doing the same."
(Les Barker.)
Am 30.10.23 um 19:12 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 21:34, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Google supports RCS on Android devices with its Android SMS app
Messages. In April 2018, it was reported that Google would be
transferring the team that was working on its Google Allo messaging
service to work on a wider RCS implementation.[19][20][21] In June 2019, >>> Google announced that it would begin to deploy RCS on an opt-in basis
via the Messages app, with service compliant with the Universal Profile
and hosted by Google rather than the user's carrier. The rollout of this >>> functionality began in France and the United Kingdom.[19][20] Google
initially branded RCS functionality under the generic term "chat
features"; in February 2023 Google began to replace references to "chat" >>> with "RCS".[7]
In response to concerns over the lack of end-to-end encryption in RCS,
Google stated that it would only retain message data in transit until it >>> is delivered to the recipient.
So what? :-D
Without RCS, the default messaging app doesn't ever encrypt anything.
SMSs are sent in the clear.
That is OT and everybody knows it.
And we are talking of the default messaging application.
Who cares? RCS is a gimp.
On 2023-10-31 02:51, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 30.10.23 um 19:12 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
And we are talking of the default messaging application.
Who cares? RCS is a gimp.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages
for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in
the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging
are free and unlimited with my plan.
Hi Stan,
This is an FYI to let you know of another possible similar solution...
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:49:33 -0400, Wally J wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages
for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in
the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging
are free and unlimited with my plan.
Hi Stan,
This is an FYI to let you know of another possible similar solution...
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
Thank you for the information. But since nobody has mentioned any
feature of RCS Chats that I would actually use, I don't think I need
to try out alternative ways of getting similar functionality. :-)
Am 28.10.23 um 20:10 schrieb Stan Brown:
Samsung Galaxy A54, Android 13
I use the Google Messaging app. It's started nagging me
to enable RCS Chats. I did some googling, but the
articles all seem to be either the nuts and bolts of
enabling/disabling, or glowing but vague praises of how
wonderful RCS Chats is.
Potential cons:
1. Doesn't work for iPhones. (The family and friends I
frequently text with all have iPhones.)
2. Businesses can send long messages, big files, and
videos, and learn whether I ever opened them.
Has anyone here actually enabled RCS Chats, and if so
could you mention one or two reasons why I might want
to?
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely. >>>>
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
does anyone know why Google is being so aggressive about promoting
RCS Chats?
How will they make money off of it?
On 2023-10-31 20:12, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:49:33 -0400, Wally J wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages
for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in
the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging
are free and unlimited with my plan.
Hi Stan,
This is an FYI to let you know of another possible similar solution...
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
Thank you for the information. But since nobody has mentioned any
feature of RCS Chats that I would actually use, I don't think I need
to try out alternative ways of getting similar functionality. :-)
I understand that new Android phones ship with RCS activated by default.
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-29 20:09:
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
How many people do you know who use RCS? Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
Don't be so hard on poor Jörg! He can't help it that he has no display or/and no eyes or/and no <deleted>, can he!?
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Google is being
so aggressive about promoting RCS Chats? How will they
make money off of it?
On 2023-10-31 20:12, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:49:33 -0400, Wally J wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages
for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in
the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging
are free and unlimited with my plan.
Hi Stan,
This is an FYI to let you know of another possible similar solution...
<https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
Thank you for the information. But since nobody has mentioned any
feature of RCS Chats that I would actually use, I don't think I need
to try out alternative ways of getting similar functionality. :-)
I understand that new Android phones ship with RCS activated by default.
Jörg Lorenz, 2023-10-29 08:00:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or
send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
More detailed:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
And Nokia was not the developer but only the initiator of that standard
in 2008. But multiple companies got involved and it is maintained by the GSMA.
Some providers also tried to market RCS with the "Joyn" app which
totally failed.
Compared to messengers like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc. RCS is more
or less meaningless.
Stan Brown wrote:
does anyone know why Google is being so aggressive about promoting
RCS Chats?
They acquired Jibe Mobile for their RCS platform, presumably so that
Android has an equivalent to Apple's iMessage.
Everyone seems to fawn over iMessage but be critical of RCS ...
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Google is being
so aggressive about promoting RCS Chats? How will they
make money off of it?
Am 01.11.23 um 08:37 schrieb Arno Welzel:
Jörg Lorenz, 2023-10-29 08:00:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely.
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
More detailed:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
I posted this link a couple of times in the past. No news.
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-29 20:09:
On 2023-10-29 16:05, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 29.10.23 um 12:54 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-10-29 08:00, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
You summarize it: RCS is a very old Nokia development.
Nobody needs it and almost 50% of mobiles in the field cannot receive or >>>>> send it. Privacy is abusive and it is a project of a frustrated
Google-company that missed out the instant messaging market completely. >>>>>
It is so simple: Nobody needs it.
Stan: don't listen to him.
Carlos: Learn to face the facts! Nobody needs RCS.
I do, that's a fact, so you got your facts wrong.
How many people do you know who use RCS?
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 21:44:47 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-31 20:12, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:49:33 -0400, Wally J wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote
Thanks to all who responded. It sounds like RCS Chats has advantages >>>>> for some people, but those don't apply to how I use messaging. I'm in >>>>> the US and only message people in the US, and both data and messaging >>>>> are free and unlimited with my plan.
Hi Stan,
This is an FYI to let you know of another possible similar solution... >>>> <https://home.pulsesms.app/overview/>
Thank you for the information. But since nobody has mentioned any
feature of RCS Chats that I would actually use, I don't think I need
to try out alternative ways of getting similar functionality. :-)
I understand that new Android phones ship with RCS activated by default.
Not just new phones. After I dismissed Google's nag to
enable RCS chats, I got a notification that RCS Chats
enabled is now the default. Fortunately the
notification linked to the appropriate setting, so I
was able to turn it off.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Google is being
so aggressive about promoting RCS Chats? How will they
make money off of it?
On 1 Nov 2023 01:22:18 -0700 Stan Brown wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Google is being
so aggressive about promoting RCS Chats? How will they
make money off of it?
The unavailability of iMessages on Android prevents iOS users switching to Android devices. Peer pressure among children makes Android phones less attractive - search for 'iphone blue bubbles' if you don't know about
that.
Google want to persuade, if posible, or force - using anti-monolopy legislation - Apple to allow iMessage to interwork with Android devices.
They therefore need to establish a similar messaging facility among
Android users so that Apple's refusal to cooperate is seen as anti-competitive.
There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS facility
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Am 30.10.23 um 16:26 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
Don't be so hard on poor Jörg! He can't help it that he has no display or/and no eyes or/and no <deleted>, can he!?
Poor Dutchie. No arguments.
The market share of RCS is not materially different from zero.
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
On 1 Nov 2023 01:22:18 -0700 Stan Brown wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Google is being
so aggressive about promoting RCS Chats? How will they
make money off of it?
The unavailability of iMessages on Android prevents iOS users switching to >> Android devices. Peer pressure among children makes Android phones less
attractive - search for 'iphone blue bubbles' if you don't know about
that.
Google want to persuade, if posible, or force - using anti-monolopy
legislation - Apple to allow iMessage to interwork with Android devices.
They therefore need to establish a similar messaging facility among
Android users so that Apple's refusal to cooperate is seen as
anti-competitive.
In the EU, such legislation is already in the making. Not only for
Apple (iMessage), but also for WhatsApp and other commercial IM
platforms, i.e. also for Google.
There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS facility
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Exactly! With all its limitations, RCS provides some additional functionality compared to the ancient SMS/MMS system, while maintaining compatibility with it. That's all. Nothing to get worked up about.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Google is being
so aggressive about promoting RCS Chats? How will they
make money off of it?
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:[...]>> There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Exactly! With all its limitations, RCS provides some additional functionality compared to the ancient SMS/MMS system, while maintaining compatibility with it. That's all. Nothing to get worked up about.
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Is RCS really compatible in the way, the SMS can use the same protocol?
Or is it just the messaging apps which support both SMS as well as RCS?
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is
not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
XMPP with OMEMO is an open standard and does not rely on the
infrastructure of one single provider.
But unfortunately there no mandatory set of XMPP extension protocols
(XEP) which clients must implement - so you never now, which of the
extended features of your client will be supported by others.
Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-01 17:54:
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:[...]>> There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS >facility
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Exactly! With all its limitations, RCS provides some additional
functionality compared to the ancient SMS/MMS system, while maintaining
compatibility with it. That's all. Nothing to get worked up about.
Is RCS really compatible in the way, the SMS can use the same protocol?
Or is it just the messaging apps which support both SMS as well as RCS?
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is
not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of >features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
XMPP with OMEMO is an open standard and does not rely on the
infrastructure of one single provider.
But unfortunately there no mandatory set of XMPP extension protocols
(XEP) which clients must implement - so you never now, which of the
extended features of your client will be supported by others.
Also XMPP requires a user account (JID) and you can not just use your
phone number to set it up. Some see this as a privacy measure, but this
also keeps many people from using it, as they already are used to much >simpler setup like WhatsApp or Signal: just install it, confirm the
account creation and you are ready to go. And even better: you will see
all your contacts immediately and don't have to ask everybody about his
or her JID before you can contact them.
Therefore XMPP also sticks with a small group of ethusiasts who do not
need more than more or less plain text messaging and it will never get
as popular as WhatsApp, Signal etc..
On 1 Nov 2023 21:04:29 +0100 Arno Welzel wrote:
Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-01 17:54:The protocols are not compatible. AIUI the Android messaging app will use
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:[...]>> There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS
facility
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Exactly! With all its limitations, RCS provides some additional
functionality compared to the ancient SMS/MMS system, while maintaining
compatibility with it. That's all. Nothing to get worked up about.
Is RCS really compatible in the way, the SMS can use the same protocol?
Or is it just the messaging apps which support both SMS as well as RCS?
RCS if it can, and fall back to SMS (while it exists) for plain text messages. Much like iMessage. I don't see any disadvantage in anyone (who usually has mobile data) enabling it unless they have a particular reason
to use SMS.
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is
not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of
features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the
start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
In my case, unless Google messages has been altered, because it can send >expensive MMS messages without telling me.
Am 01.11.23 um 20:53 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the
start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
The issue being functionality and privacy.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the
start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
In my case, unless Google messages has been altered, because it can send expensive MMS messages without telling me.
On 2 Nov 2023 09:16:19 +0000 Bob Henson wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that >>>> RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the
start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
In my case, unless Google messages has been altered, because it can send
expensive MMS messages without telling me.
You said upthread that the Google messaging app does that so you use
another SMS-only app. Fair enough. Does the Google app only do it if RCS
is enabled, or did it always do that and still do it with RCS enabled?
This is clearly an important point - to avoid inadvertant sending of MMS.
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-01 17:54:
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:[...]>> There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS facility
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Exactly! With all its limitations, RCS provides some additional functionality compared to the ancient SMS/MMS system, while maintaining compatibility with it. That's all. Nothing to get worked up about.
Is RCS really compatible in the way, the SMS can use the same protocol?
Or is it just the messaging apps which support both SMS as well as RCS?
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is
not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
neither SMS/MMS nor RCS have end-to-end-encryption.
On 2023-11-02 07:47, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 01.11.23 um 20:53 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:The issue being functionality and privacy.
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that >>>> RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the
start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
Functionality? What functionality problem has it?
Privacy? It replaces SMS, which has none.
Frank Slootweg wrote:
neither SMS/MMS nor RCS have end-to-end-encryption.
RCS does have E2EE for private chats (I'm not sure about group chats)
<http://andyburns.uk/misc/rcs-e2ee.png>
In message <kqha4eFdm1eU1@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes[...]
On 2023-11-02 07:47, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 01.11.23 um 20:53 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about >>> it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people >>> have Apple shares?
The issue being functionality and privacy.
Functionality? What functionality problem has it?
Privacy? It replaces SMS, which has none.
I don't have a dog in this fight.
There are two sides to privacy. One is being unable to read a message,
the other is who can see who is communicating with who. With SMS, who
apart from the Telcos can see who is sending/receiving ? With other services, who can see who is sending/receiving ? Some may (rightly or wrongly), trust the Telco, but may not trust that messaging services
operator (e.g. some won't touch whatsapp with a barge pole).
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
Well, according to the Apple fanbois/seeds/zealots, RCS use in North America could be well over 50%!
How's that!? Well, they claim iPhone penetration is about 50%, so
Android is about 50%. They also claim that nobody uses WhatsApp in NA,
so the Android users use RCS (because it's enabled by default) and at
least some iPhone users will communicate with Android users, so all in
all it could be well over 50%!
On 2023-11-01 21:56, Dave Royal wrote:[...]
The protocols are not compatible. AIUI the Android messaging app will use
RCS if it can, and fall back to SMS (while it exists) for plain text
messages. Much like iMessage. I don't see any disadvantage in anyone (who
usually has mobile data) enabling it unless they have a particular reason
to use SMS.
AFAIK, all apps doing RCS fall back to SMS transparently when RCS is not available. There must be some design for this in the RCS protocol.
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is
not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of
features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
Well, AFAIK SMS has no encryption at all. It is a design from the 90's.
Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-02 14:21:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
Well, according to the Apple fanbois/seeds/zealots, RCS use in North America could be well over 50%!
Well - North America is not the world. WhatsApp alone is used by about 2 billion people [1] followed by Weixon/Wechat with 1.3 billion. iMessage
is estimated to have around 1.3 billion users [2]. Even if half of all
people in North America would use RCS this would be just about 290 million.
But according to Juniper Research the world wide use of RCS may surpass
1 billion users in 2024: <https://www.juniperresearch.com/press/rcs-active-users-to-surpass-1bn-2024>
So in the end RCS may not be that unimportant at all despite its lack of end-to-end-encryption and at least one should know about it.
How's that!? Well, they claim iPhone penetration is about 50%, so
Android is about 50%. They also claim that nobody uses WhatsApp in NA,
so the Android users use RCS (because it's enabled by default) and at
least some iPhone users will communicate with Android users, so all in
all it could be well over 50%!
Yes, and Apples market share will increase in the future.
[1] <https://www.statista.com/statistics/258749/most-popular-global-mobile-messenger-apps/>
[2] <https://www.usesignhouse.com/blog/imessage-stats>
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 20:53:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the
start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about
it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people
have Apple shares?
Why do you think I am against it or even angry?
I just said, that RCS has certain limitations compared to SMS or
messengers like WhtsApp and it is therefore not very widespread. But if people want to use - fine.
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
Well, according to the Apple fanbois/seeds/zealots, RCS use in North America could be well over 50%!
How's that!? Well, they claim iPhone penetration is about 50%, so
Android is about 50%. They also claim that nobody uses WhatsApp in NA,
so the Android users use RCS (because it's enabled by default) and at
least some iPhone users will communicate with Android users, so all in
all it could be well over 50%!
See, Android users can also come up with silly, meaningless, 'data' without really trying! :-)
In message <kqha4eFdm1eU1@mid.individual.net>, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes
On 2023-11-02 07:47, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 01.11.23 um 20:53 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2023-11-01 20:46, Arno Welzel wrote:Â The issue being functionality and privacy.
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact,
that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
That's not a problem, as long as the people I connect to activate it.
And it is gaining users, anyway. WhatsApp didn't have many users at the >>>> start, either.
I don't see why some people are against it and get kind of angry about >>>> it. Why does it matter to them to want it to fail? Perhaps these people >>>> have Apple shares?
Functionality? What functionality problem has it?
Privacy? It replaces SMS, which has none.
I don't have a dog in this fight.
There are two sides to privacy. One is being unable to read a message,
the other is who can see who is communicating with who. With SMS, who
apart from the Telcos can see who is sending/receiving ?
With other
services, who can see who is sending/receiving ? Some may (rightly or wrongly), trust the Telco, but may not trust that messaging services
operator (e.g. some won't touch whatsapp with a barge pole).
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-02 14:21:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
So in the end RCS may not be that unimportant at all despite its lack of
end-to-end-encryption and at least one should know about it.
See Andy's response. Apparently RCS *does* have end-to-end-encryption
for one-to-one chats (unknow for group chats). That in contrast to what
our Swiss 'friend' is constantly claiming.
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 23:09:
On 2023-11-01 21:56, Dave Royal wrote:[...]
The protocols are not compatible. AIUI the Android messaging app will use >>> RCS if it can, and fall back to SMS (while it exists) for plain text
messages. Much like iMessage. I don't see any disadvantage in anyone (who >>> usually has mobile data) enabling it unless they have a particular reason >>> to use SMS.
AFAIK, all apps doing RCS fall back to SMS transparently when RCS is not
available. There must be some design for this in the RCS protocol.
Well - if a client does not have RCS it may just not be reachable this
way. At least a RCS server needs to confirm it a message can be
delivered or not. And if the server denies the delivery, because there
is no RCS client for the given target number available, then the sender knows, that he has to use SMS.
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is >>>> not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of
features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
Well, AFAIK SMS has no encryption at all. It is a design from the 90's.
Exactly. Therefore we should implement this in a current standard. But
of course governments don't want an offical standard where they can not
read the messages of the users if they want to - either to "protect the children" or to "watch criminals".
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Frank Slootweg, 2023-11-01 17:54:
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:[...]>> There is also the reasonable goal of replacing the ancient SMS
facility
with a more capable and reliable IP-based one.
Exactly! With all its limitations, RCS provides some additional
functionality compared to the ancient SMS/MMS system, while maintaining
compatibility with it. That's all. Nothing to get worked up about.
Is RCS really compatible in the way, the SMS can use the same protocol?
Or is it just the messaging apps which support both SMS as well as RCS?
If a messaging app supports RCS, it will use RCS if the other side
also supports RCS. If not, it will fallback to SMS/MMS (and can/will
give a warning before doing so).
Having a universal standard for end-to-end-encrypted messaging which is
not controlled by a single company and which defines a minimum set of
features like groups or sending text with formatting and attachments
like images, audio and video, would be much more useful.
Yes, that would be nice, but is outside the scope of this thread and neither SMS/MMS nor RCS have end-to-end-encryption.
if a client does not have RCS it may just not be reachable this
way. At least a RCS server needs to confirm it a message can be
delivered or not.
Arno Welzel wrote:
if a client does not have RCS it may just not be reachable this
way. At least a RCS server needs to confirm it a message can be
delivered or not.
RCS server must have a yes/no lookup by phone number.
On 2023-11-02 14:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Can you send messages using RCS
to people with an Apple iPhone?
I don't care, I don't have many people in my circle with those.
Ok - then go ahead an just use it. But this won't change the fact, that
RCS in general is not very widespread.
Well, according to the Apple fanbois/seeds/zealots, RCS use in North America could be well over 50%!
How's that!? Well, they claim iPhone penetration is about 50%, so Android is about 50%. They also claim that nobody uses WhatsApp in NA,
so the Android users use RCS (because it's enabled by default) and at
least some iPhone users will communicate with Android users, so all in
all it could be well over 50%!
See, Android users can also come up with silly, meaningless, 'data' without really trying! :-)
:-D
<https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/rich-communications-service-market>
Rich Communication Services Market Size & Share Analysis - Growth Trends
& Forecasts (2023 - 2028)
Rich Communication Services (RCS) Market Size
Study Period 2018 - 2028
Market Size (2023) USD 1.83 Billion
Market Size (2028) USD 5.68 Billion
CAGR (2023 - 2028) 25.37 %
Fastest Growing Market Asia Pacific
Largest Market North America
Major Players
*Rich Communication Services (RCS) Market Analysis*
With a grain of salt :-D
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-11-02 14:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
[...]See, Android users can also come up with silly, meaningless, 'data'
without really trying! :-)
:-D
<https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/rich-communications-service-market>
Rich Communication Services Market Size & Share Analysis - Growth Trends
& Forecasts (2023 - 2028)
Rich Communication Services (RCS) Market Size
Study Period 2018 - 2028
Market Size (2023) USD 1.83 Billion
Market Size (2028) USD 5.68 Billion
CAGR (2023 - 2028) 25.37 %
Fastest Growing Market Asia Pacific
Largest Market North America
Major Players
*Rich Communication Services (RCS) Market Analysis*
With a grain of salt :-D
Nah, let's *start* with a kilogram! :-)
This 'world wide' report has a very strong US/NA smell. There are so
many idiotic aspects, irrelevancies, etc. that it's hard to take the
rest of the report serious. So I don't think I'm going to spend $4750 to
buy my copy of the report.
Anyway, here in Europe, we can just sit back and watch the show! :-)
On 2023-11-02 19:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-11-02 14:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-01 14:11:
On 2023-11-01 08:40, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
[...]See, Android users can also come up with silly, meaningless, 'data' >>> without really trying! :-)
:-D
<https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/rich-communications-service-market>
Rich Communication Services Market Size & Share Analysis - Growth Trends >> & Forecasts (2023 - 2028)
Rich Communication Services (RCS) Market Size
Study Period 2018 - 2028
Market Size (2023) USD 1.83 Billion
Market Size (2028) USD 5.68 Billion
CAGR (2023 - 2028) 25.37 %
Fastest Growing Market Asia Pacific
Largest Market North America
Major Players
*Rich Communication Services (RCS) Market Analysis*
With a grain of salt :-D
Nah, let's *start* with a kilogram! :-)
This 'world wide' report has a very strong US/NA smell. There are so many idiotic aspects, irrelevancies, etc. that it's hard to take the
rest of the report serious. So I don't think I'm going to spend $4750 to buy my copy of the report.
That expensive? Wow, I had no idea. :-O
Anyway, here in Europe, we can just sit back and watch the show! :-)
:-)
I find interesting one item: the growth in the Asia Pacific area (see
the map on the link). I have no idea about the figures, I just find
curious that bit; If the growth there is true (billion more or less),
then why?
But if it is faintly true, it explains the interest by Google.
On 2023-11-02 14:15, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
I just said, that RCS has certain limitations compared to SMS or
messengers like WhtsApp and it is therefore not very widespread. But if
people want to use - fine.
RCS has limitations compared to SMS? Like what? :-?
But according to Juniper Research the world wide use of RCS may surpass
1 billion users in 2024: <https://www.juniperresearch.com/press/rcs-active-users-to-surpass-1bn-2024>
So in the end RCS may not be that unimportant at all despite its lack of end-to-end-encryption and at least one should know about it.
On 2 Nov 2023 09:16:19 +0000 Bob Henson wrote:[...]
Carlos E. R. wrote:
In my case, unless Google messages has been altered, because it can send
expensive MMS messages without telling me.
You said upthread that the Google messaging app does that so you use
another SMS-only app. Fair enough. Does the Google app only do it if RCS
is enabled, or did it always do that and still do it with RCS enabled?
This is clearly an important point - to avoid inadvertant sending of MMS.
On 2023-11-02 17:30, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Exactly. Therefore we should implement this in a current standard. But
of course governments don't want an offical standard where they can not
read the messages of the users if they want to - either to "protect the
children" or to "watch criminals".
And that standard is RCS :-D
On 2023-11-02 19:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Arno Welzel wrote:
if a client does not have RCS it may just not be reachable this
way. At least a RCS server needs to confirm it a message can be
delivered or not.
RCS server must have a yes/no lookup by phone number.
I just disabled RCS on my second phone, then started typing a text to
send to it on my first phone. Instantly it said it was going to use SMS.
Then I activated RCS again. In the first phone, I had to close the
editing an go back to the list of chats, then try to post a new text,
and it then said it was going to use RCS. It took more time to recognize
the change, but not more than 30 seconds.
If it is a database, it is pretty fast.
Is the encryption really end-to-end without any way to intercept by any government officials?
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-02 18:32:
On 2023-11-02 14:15, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
I just said, that RCS has certain limitations compared to SMS or
messengers like WhtsApp and it is therefore not very widespread. But if
people want to use - fine.
RCS has limitations compared to SMS? Like what? :-?
That it needs a working internet connection which may not always be the
case. But I admit, this is not really important in most cases.
Arno Welzel wrote:
Is the encryption really end-to-end without any way to intercept by any
government officials?
In order to answer that, first provide a list of the types of encryption
your government can crack ...
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-02 18:53:
On 2023-11-02 17:30, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Exactly. Therefore we should implement this in a current standard. But
of course governments don't want an offical standard where they can not
read the messages of the users if they want to - either to "protect the
children" or to "watch criminals".
And that standard is RCS :-D
Is the encryption really end-to-end without any way to intercept by any government officials?
On 2023-11-03 19:24, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-11-02 18:53:
On 2023-11-02 17:30, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
Exactly. Therefore we should implement this in a current standard. But >>>> of course governments don't want an offical standard where they can not >>>> read the messages of the users if they want to - either to "protect the >>>> children" or to "watch criminals".
And that standard is RCS :-D
Is the encryption really end-to-end without any way to intercept by any
government officials?
Is there any messaging _service_ that can not be intercepted by governments?
The unavailability of iMessages on Android prevents iOS users switching to >Android devices. Peer pressure among children makes Android phones less >attractive - search for 'iphone blue bubbles' if you don't know about
that.
Google want to persuade, if posible, or force - using anti-monolopy >legislation - Apple to allow iMessage to interwork with Android devices.
They therefore need to establish a similar messaging facility among
Android users so that Apple's refusal to cooperate is seen as >anti-competitive.
Google Turns To Regulators To Make Apple Open Up iMessage:
Dave Royal wrote:
Google Turns To Regulators To Make Apple Open Up iMessage:
The EU has already decided that WhatsApp and Messenger will have to play
ball ...
On 9 Nov 2023 09:57:56 +0000 Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Royal wrote:
Google Turns To Regulators To Make Apple Open Up iMessage:
The EU has already decided that WhatsApp and Messenger will have to play
ball ...
The DMA - Digital Markets Act - is in force, yes, but the details are yet
to be agreed. Hence Google's latest initiative to get Europarl to
interpret it the way Google want.
There isn't an agreed message protocol
yet
or even agreement of what features will be 'core': presence/status? encryption (& backdoors)? colour of message bubbles? ...
See "What changes will it make for interoperability of messenger
services?" in the link. <https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_20_2349>
On 9 Nov 2023 09:57:56 +0000 Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Royal wrote:
Google Turns To Regulators To Make Apple Open Up iMessage:
The EU has already decided that WhatsApp and Messenger will have to play
ball ...
The DMA - Digital Markets Act - is in force, yes, but the details are yet
to be agreed. Hence Google's latest initiative to get Europarl to
interpret it the way Google want. There isn't an agreed message protocol
yet, or even agreement of what features will be 'core': presence/status? encryption (& backdoors)? colour of message bubbles? ...
See "What changes will it make for interoperability of messenger
services?" in the link. <https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_20_2349>
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