The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
For people who do not understand the concept:
Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes
I want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting
in the camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC (Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
In article <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
GMT, UTC and Zulu are equivalent and always the same. GMT does not move between
summer and winter.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
When I used to do amateur radio, we were required to keep our logs in GMT all year round. During the periods of BST, it was necessary to subtract an hour from clock time when filling in the log.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
On 2023-10-21 23:56, Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
GMT, UTC and Zulu are equivalent and always the same. GMT does not move between
summer and winter.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
When I used to do amateur radio, we were required to keep our logs in GMT all
year round. During the periods of BST, it was necessary to subtract an hour from clock time when filling in the log.
Still, UTC ≠GMT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-21 23:56, Tony Mountifield wrote:
...Still, UTC ≠GMT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Mean_Time
OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday practical usage, they are the same.
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the
computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to BST which is GMT+1.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
For people who do not understand the concept:
Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is BST -1 at this time of year, but it is equal to GMT all the time (hint GMT equals UTC which never changes)
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I have a feeling the YYYYMMDD filenames are baked into DCIM/DCF specs.
Perhaps DST makes the difference. Here in The Colonies we'll be
falling back an hour in the near future.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to BST which is GMT+1.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >> BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
In message <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes >>>>> I want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the
camera itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting >>>>> in the camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Sorry, you've got it wrong. The UK operates on what used to be called
GMT during winter; in summer we operate on BST (British Summer Time).
On 2023-10-21 23:56, Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
GMT, UTC and Zulu are equivalent and always the same. GMT does not move between
summer and winter.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for >> British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
When I used to do amateur radio, we were required to keep our logs in GMT all
year round. During the periods of BST, it was necessary to subtract an hour >> from clock time when filling in the log.
Still, UTC ≠GMT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Still, UTC ≠GMT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday practical usage, they are the same.
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as >PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
In article <uh1fkp$1vfju$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
For people who do not understand the concept:
Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
Wrong; it is also GMT. See my other more detailed post.
In article <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >> >>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >> >>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
GMT, UTC and Zulu are equivalent and always the same. GMT does not move between
summer and winter.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:52 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >> BST which is GMT+1.
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Am 21.10.23 um 23:52 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >> BST which is GMT+1.
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >> BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is BST -1 at this time of year, but it is equal to GMT all the time (hint GMT equals UTC which never changes)
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I have a feeling the YYYYMMDD filenames are baked into DCIM/DCF specs.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:57 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <uh1fkp$1vfju$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
For people who do not understand the concept:
Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
Wrong; it is also GMT. See my other more detailed post.
Whether you like it or not: It is different.
Very much so. Guess why in 1972 UTC was introduced.
Am 22.10.23 um 00:13 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Still, UTC 0 >>>OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
practical
usage, they are the same.
No. GMT does not exist anymore in the professional world of aerospace
or maritime professions since 1972.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:52 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but
sometimes I
want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the
camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK
change to
BST which is GMT+1.
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Perhaps DST makes the difference. Here in The Colonies we'll be
falling back an hour in the near future.
On 10/21/2023 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Perhaps DST makes the difference. Here in The Colonies we'll be
falling back an hour in the near future.
Not in all the colonies. Arizona hasn't had DST since 1968 (except
for the Navajo reservation), and I can't say that I have ever missed it...
I have a feeling the YYYYMMDD filenames are baked into DCIM/DCF specs.
On 2023-10-22 07:32, AJL wrote:
On 10/21/2023 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Perhaps DST makes the difference. Here in The Colonies we'll be
falling back an hour in the near future.
Not in all the colonies. Arizona hasn't had DST since 1968 (except
for the Navajo reservation), and I can't say that I have ever
missed it...
Good :-)
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings >>possible.
Zulu is GMT
Adrian
On 10/21/2023 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Perhaps DST makes the difference. Here in The Colonies we'll be
falling back an hour in the near future.
Not in all the colonies. Arizona hasn't had DST since 1968 (except
for the Navajo reservation), and I can't say that I have ever missed it...
In message <uh2i5l$29spl$5@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 22.10.23 um 00:13 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Still, UTC 0 >>>OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
practical
usage, they are the same.
No. GMT does not exist anymore in the professional world of aerospace
or maritime professions since 1972.
I haven't listened to the BBC's Shipping Forecast (weather forecast for
much the north eastern Atlantic and UK waters) for a while, but a long
time after 1972 they were still using GMT as the time zone for their forecasts.
On 10/22/2023 6:55 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-22 07:32, AJL wrote:
On 10/21/2023 9:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Perhaps DST makes the difference. Here in The Colonies we'll be
falling back an hour in the near future.
Not in all the colonies. Arizona hasn't had DST since 1968 (except
for the Navajo reservation), and I can't say that I have ever
missed it...
Good :-)
I do have one difficulty for not having DST. When the rest of the nation changes to DST it makes all the national cable channels change by one
hour my time so I can't watch Judge Judy while eating dinner anymore. I
know, rough life, huh...
Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> wrote:
In message <uh2i5l$29spl$5@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 22.10.23 um 00:13 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Still, UTC 0 >>>OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
practical
usage, they are the same.
No. GMT does not exist anymore in the professional world of aerospace
or maritime professions since 1972.
I haven't listened to the BBC's Shipping Forecast (weather forecast for
much the north eastern Atlantic and UK waters) for a while, but a long
time after 1972 they were still using GMT as the time zone for their
forecasts.
It doesn't specify any timezone.
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:56:55 +0000 (UTC), Tony Mountifield wrote:
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
Not British Summer Time?
On 21.10.23 10:56 pm, Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >> >>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >> >>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
GMT, UTC and Zulu are equivalent and always the same. GMT does not move between
summer and winter.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
British SUMMER time.
On 2023-10-22 17:07, AJL wrote:
I do have one difficulty for not having DST. When the rest of the
nation changes to DST it makes all the national cable channels
change by one hour my time so I can't watch Judge Judy while
eating dinner anymore. I know, rough life, huh...
I'm curious. Do they change their programming times adapting to the
different times zones in the nation? Meaning not airing programs simultaneously. Must be a big shuffling task to make all those
adjustments :-)
In article <kpk3rnFbp1kU1@mid.individual.net>,
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
On 21.10.23 10:56 pm, Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article <uh1fef$1vfjv$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >> >> >>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >> >> >>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
Exactly the reason why UTC was invented in 1972 and strictly speaking
GMT does not exist anymore:
Sorry, but that is completely wrong.
GMT, UTC and Zulu are equivalent and always the same. GMT does not move between
summer and winter.
In the UK (where I have always lived), we set our clocks to GMT in the winter,
and in March we move them forward an hour to GMT+1, which we call BST, for >> > British Standard Time. We move the clocks back to GMT in October.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
British SUMMER time.
Yup! :-) Except from 1968 to 1971.
In message <uh2i5l$29spl$5@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 22.10.23 um 00:13 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Still, UTC 0 >>>OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
practical
usage, they are the same.
No. GMT does not exist anymore in the professional world of aerospace
or maritime professions since 1972.
I haven't listened to the BBC's Shipping Forecast (weather forecast for
much the north eastern Atlantic and UK waters) for a while, but a long
time after 1972 they were still using GMT as the time zone for their forecasts.
On 22.10.23 8:10 am, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Changed to suit people who hate to give credit to Britain for
standardising something, probably assisted by those who just have to
change things for changes sake.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >>> BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Officially, yes, but colloquially it's used interchangeably with UTC. Such
as the OP.
On 10/22/23 1:14 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 22.10.23 8:10 am, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Changed to suit people who hate to give credit to Britain for
standardising something, probably assisted by those who just have to
change things for changes sake.
Or sometimes for greater efficiency -- like removing Us from words where
they aren't actually needed.
On 10/22/23 3:26 AM, Chris wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >>>> BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Officially, yes, but colloquially it's used interchangeably with UTC. Such >> as the OP.
Indeed. And all I wanted to know was how to make the date generated by
my camera app match my local time :-(
On 10/22/23 1:14 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 22.10.23 8:10 am, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Changed to suit people who hate to give credit to Britain for
standardising something, probably assisted by those who just have to
change things for changes sake.
Or sometimes for greater efficiency -- like removing Us from words where
they aren't actually needed.
Am 21.10.23 um 23:52 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>> want to send the exactiuntouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings
possible.
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to >> BST which is GMT+1.
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 18:23:44 +0100, Bob Henson
<bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
British SUMMER time.
Yup! :-) Except from 1968 to 1971.
And England needs double summer time - but despite the really obvious >>advantages, no-one is prepared to give it us.
I think it would be better if the UK were on UTC+1 in the winter and
UTC+2 in the summer. We don't need it to be getting light at 4am in
summer. An hour extra light in the evening would be nicer.
Am 23.10.23 um 00:41 schrieb The Real Bev:
Indeed. And all I wanted to know was how to make the date generated by
my camera app match my local time :-(
Does this howtogeek-link help? I did not try it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/302672/how-to-view-and-edit-photo-exif-data-on-android/
British SUMMER time.
Yup! :-) Except from 1968 to 1971.
And England needs double summer time - but despite the really obvious >advantages, no-one is prepared to give it us.
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
On 23 Oct 2023 10:30:20 +0100 Chris in Makati wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
The sun is never _directly_ overhead at Greenwich ;)
On 2023-10-23 12:30, Dave Royal wrote:
On 23 Oct 2023 10:30:20 +0100 Chris in Makati wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
The sun is never _directly_ overhead at Greenwich ;)
Even if you define it as the instant the sun is that the exact south,
there is a yearly variance to one side or the other; I think it is up to >about 16 minutes. So the definition of UTC uses the word "average".
On 23 Oct 2023 15:03:10 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 12:30, Dave Royal wrote:
On 23 Oct 2023 10:30:20 +0100 Chris in Makati wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
The sun is never _directly_ overhead at Greenwich ;)
Even if you define it as the instant the sun is that the exact south,
there is a yearly variance to one side or the other; I think it is up to
about 16 minutes. So the definition of UTC uses the word "average".
Which is why there is an 'M' in GMT.
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in professional life or applications anymore.
On 22.10.23 11:39 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/22/23 1:14 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 22.10.23 8:10 am, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Changed to suit people who hate to give credit to Britain for
standardising something, probably assisted by those who just have to
change things for changes sake.
Or sometimes for greater efficiency -- like removing Us from words where
they aren't actually needed.
That's exactly what I meant by change for changes sake. The words are
fine with the "U"s in and we've never had any difficulty spelling them,
so any change is pointless and futile.
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 18:23:44 +0100, Bob Henson
<bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
British SUMMER time.
Yup! :-) Except from 1968 to 1971.
And England needs double summer time - but despite the really obvious >>advantages, no-one is prepared to give it us.
I think it would be better if the UK were on UTC+1 in the winter and
UTC+2 in the summer. We don't need it to be getting light at 4am in
summer. An hour extra light in the evening would be nicer.
Am 23.10.23 um 00:41 schrieb The Real Bev:
On 10/22/23 3:26 AM, Chris wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Officially, yes, but colloquially it's used interchangeably with UTC. Such >>> as the OP.
Indeed. And all I wanted to know was how to make the date generated by
my camera app match my local time :-(
Does this howtogeek-link help? I did not try it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/302672/how-to-view-and-edit-photo-exif-data-on-android/
On 2023-10-23 15:24, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
professional life or applications anymore.
That is not correct. It has the same relevance as CEST time.
On 23 Oct 2023 10:30:20 +0100 Chris in Makati wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
The sun is never _directly_ overhead at Greenwich ;)
On 10/22/23 10:48 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 23.10.23 um 00:41 schrieb The Real Bev:
On 10/22/23 3:26 AM, Chris wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want to leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time shown
leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in and LOOKS
at the exifdata they could determine the local time/location, but hardly anybody is going to do that. I just want to be able to show somebody
that THIS is what THAT looked like at the actual local time I took the
photo.
I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(
On 23.10.23 16:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 15:24, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
professional life or applications anymore.
That is not correct. It has the same relevance as CEST time.
It is correct: All official times are calibrated against UTC and done by
the German Caesium Timekeeper in Braunschweig.
You should try to
understand what you are writing about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physikalisch-Technische_Bundesanstalt
On 2023-10-23 16:38, The Real Bev wrote:
What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want to >> leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time shown
leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in and LOOKS
at the exifdata they could determine the local time/location, but hardly
anybody is going to do that. I just want to be able to show somebody
that THIS is what THAT looked like at the actual local time I took the
photo.
I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(
Software for classification/organizing of photos (in Linux, think
digikam or shotwell) do look at the exif data primarily. And I can tell
you that they work better if the photos use UTC time instead of local, specially if you travel.
It is also a pain if you have several cameras and forget to adjust summer/winter time in one of them, then try to organize all those photos
of a single event.
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo.
On 10/23/23 7:48 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 16:38, The Real Bev wrote:
What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want
to leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time
shown leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in
and LOOKS at the exifdata they could determine the local
time/location, but hardly anybody is going to do that. I just want
to be able to show somebody that THIS is what THAT looked like at the
actual local time I took the photo.
I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(
Software for classification/organizing of photos (in Linux, think
digikam or shotwell) do look at the exif data primarily. And I can tell
you that they work better if the photos use UTC time instead of local,
specially if you travel.
It is also a pain if you have several cameras and forget to adjust
summer/winter time in one of them, then try to organize all those photos
of a single event.
I did that on a multi-week trip to Utah. Phone camera (Motorola) used
local time, camera used CALIFORNIA local time because I forgot to reset
it. I didn't notice this until too late when I had lumped all the
photos together and was editing them. Not all that important in the
great scheme of things, of course, but I WANTED a proper sequence :-(
On 10/22/23 10:48 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Does this howtogeek-link help? I did not try it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/302672/how-to-view-and-edit-photo-exif-data-on-android/
Useful information. jhead (windows, linux, probably apple but who
cares) will allow various forms of editing, but I just use it to change
the filename. I am ashamed to say I stop when I figure out how to do
what I need to do rather than mastering a subject.
What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want to leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time shown
leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in and LOOKS
at the exifdata they could determine the local time/location, but hardly anybody is going to do that. I just want to be able to show somebody
that THIS is what THAT looked like at the actual local time I took the
photo.
I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(
On 22.10.23 11:39 pm, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/22/23 1:14 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 22.10.23 8:10 am, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
Changed to suit people who hate to give credit to Britain for
standardising something, probably assisted by those who just have to
change things for changes sake.
Or sometimes for greater efficiency -- like removing Us from words where they aren't actually needed.
That's exactly what I meant by change for changes sake. The words are
fine with the "U"s in and we've never had any difficulty spelling them,
so any change is pointless and futile.
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and
it was very nice.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Well, very recently, *you* used it! :-) [1]
On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
GMT does not exist anymore. Key word *UTC*
It's been superseded by UTC, yes, but many still use GMT to mean UTC. Especially in the UK. They are synonymous.
However, it doesn't change the fact that your assertion that GMT changes
with the clocks in the summer is categorically wrong.
On 23 Oct 2023 10:30:20 +0100 Chris in Makati wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 09:10:54 +0200, J�rg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
The sun is never _directly_ overhead at Greenwich ;)
Even if you define it as the instant the sun is that the exact south,
there is a yearly variance to one side or the other; I think it is up to about 16 minutes. So the definition of UTC uses the word "average".
On 2023-10-23 15:24, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
professional life or applications anymore.
That is not correct. It has the same relevance as CEST time.
On 2023-10-22 00:13, Tony Mountifield wrote:
In article <kpj0d5Fe75dU3@mid.individual.net>,
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-21 23:56, Tony Mountifield wrote:
...Still, UTC ≠GMT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Mean_Time
OK, so they are slightly differently defined, but in everyday practical
usage, they are the same.
It appears so, but I'm not sure if they could differ at some point.
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:57 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <uh1fkp$1vfju$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera >>>>>>> itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC
(Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings >>>>>> possible.
Zulu is GMT
For people who do not understand the concept:
Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
Wrong; it is also GMT. See my other more detailed post.
Whether you like it or not: It is different.
Very much so. Guess why in 1972 UTC was introduced.
A desire to move away from a geographic name. Greenwich makes no sense to most of the world. It is also impossible to pronounce by some.
For most purposes GMT/UTC can be used interchangeably.
I'd love to know why you think it is "very much" different. In your words, not a copy pasted wp article.
On 10/22/23 10:48 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 23.10.23 um 00:41 schrieb The Real Bev:
On 10/22/23 3:26 AM, Chris wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:52:36 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
Zulu is GMT
Definitely wrong.
During DST GMT is Zulu +1
GMT is Zulu during winter.
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Officially, yes, but colloquially it's used interchangeably with UTC. Such >>>> as the OP.
Indeed. And all I wanted to know was how to make the date generated by
my camera app match my local time :-(
Does this howtogeek-link help? I did not try it.
https://www.howtogeek.com/302672/how-to-view-and-edit-photo-exif-data-on-android/
Useful information. jhead (windows, linux, probably apple but who
cares) will allow various forms of editing, but I just use it to change
the filename. I am ashamed to say I stop when I figure out how to do
what I need to do rather than mastering a subject.
What I want is the CAMERA to assign a filename that recognizes local
time, not GMT/UTC/Zulu time. I do it afterward, but sometimes I want to leave the file absolutely untouched, and having only Brit time shown
leaves the local time unknown. I suppose if somebody goes in and LOOKS
at the exifdata they could determine the local time/location, but hardly anybody is going to do that. I just want to be able to show somebody
that THIS is what THAT looked like at the actual local time I took the
photo.
I suspect I'm over-thinking this :-(
On 23 Oct 2023 14:07:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK change to
BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Well, very recently, *you* used it! :-) [1]
On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
No that was a quote of the time information in your article. I think
that should be numerics with a + or - sign (in my case -0700, as
indeed Gravity generates). I'm not familiar enough with the standard
to say that GMT is wrong in an article's timestamp, but it's
certainly inconsistent.
UTC is essentially based upon the timing of solar noon at 0 degrees
longitude (the so-called "prime meridian"), similar to GMT. However,
in the case of UTC the time is fine-tuned based upon a much more
accurate atomic clock. It’s not perfect, however. As the earth’s
rotation slows ever so slightly, leap seconds need to be added here
and there. That’s in order to keep the time within close range of
what’s known as UT1- a variant of universal time based upon the true
solar time. That solar time is constant, but the earth’s rotation is imperfect, hence the need for the leap seconds. If your curiosity is
piqued, head here http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/~tcs3/tcs3/Misc/slalib_html/node219.html
for more specifics on all that.
On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
...
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the
computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day.
I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.
Are you sure? What I just read indicates Zulu = UTC = GMT.
On 22/10/2023 11:31, Chris wrote:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:57 schrieb Tony Mountifield:
In article <uh1fkp$1vfju$1@dont-email.me>,
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 23:03 schrieb Adrian:
In message <uh18fc$1tq70$1@dont-email.me>, Jörg Lorenz
<hugybear@gmx.net> writes
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local >>>>>>>> time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I >>>>>>>> want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the >>>>>>>> camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
Zulu is GMT -1. Absolutely universal and is therefore called UTC >>>>>>> (Universal Time Coordinated). No confusion and no misunderstandings >>>>>>> possible.
Zulu is GMT
For people who do not understand the concept:
Zulu is UTC but not GMT.
Wrong; it is also GMT. See my other more detailed post.
Whether you like it or not: It is different.
Very much so. Guess why in 1972 UTC was introduced.
A desire to move away from a geographic name. Greenwich makes no sense to
most of the world. It is also impossible to pronounce by some.
For most purposes GMT/UTC can be used interchangeably.
I'd love to know why you think it is "very much" different. In your words, >> not a copy pasted wp article.
GMT is mean solar time based on the sun's position in the sky.
UTC is based on atomic time with leap seconds inserted when most
convenient to keep the difference under about 0.9 seconds.
So for many purposes they are the same, but there is still an important difference.
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and
it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_in_the_United_Sta
"During the 1973 oil embargo by the Organization of Arab Petroleum
Exporting Countries (OAPEC), in an effort to conserve fuel, Congress
enacted a trial period of year-round DST (P.L. 93-182), beginning
January 6, 1974, and ending April 27, 1975. The trial was hotly
debated. Those in favor pointed to increased daylight hours in the
summer evening: more time for recreation, reduced lighting and
heating demands, reduced crime, and reduced automobile accidents. The opposition was concerned about children leaving for school in the
dark and the construction industry was concerned about morning
accidents. After several morning traffic accidents involving
schoolchildren in Florida, including eight children who were killed,
Governor Reubin Askew asked for the year-round law to be repealed.
"Over three months from December to March, public support dropped
from 79% to 42%. Some schools moved their start times later. Shortly
after the end of the Watergate scandal caused a change of
administration, the act was amended in October 1974 (P.L. 93-434) to
return to standard time for four months, beginning October 27, 1974,
and ending February 23, 1975, when DST resumed. When the trial ended
in October 1975, the country returned to observing summer DST (with
the aforementioned exceptions)."
There was nothing in that article about "double" or "two hour" --
both search terms (without quotes) came up empty.
I accept that, but I was hoping that Joerg, the authority on GMT and how it changes between summer and winter, could explain it himself.
On 23/10/2023 19:49, Chris wrote:
I accept that, but I was hoping that Joerg, the authority on GMT and how it >> changes between summer and winter, could explain it himself.
He's in my killfile for a reason.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
The Pixel2 native camera app insists in saving photos as
PXL_20231018_184736767.jpg with GMT time attached rather than local
time. I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo. Although the camera
itself is set to local (internet) time, I can find no setting in the
camera app to change. Anybody know what I'm missing?
I've read all the many responses in this thread and thought to do some investigation.
After some sidetracks, I looked at *my* camera app (Samsung) and see
that that camera app *does* create filenames in local time:
20231023_172403.jpg (it was 17:24, local Dutch time)
I.e. exactly like you want them, even with only full seconds.
So perhaps it's worth you while to consider to look at other (real?
:-)) camera apps.
[Rewind/repeat:]
I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo.
I don't consider a name change of the *file* to be a non-untouched *photo*. If you - like me - consider a name in local time to be better,
more accurate, <whatever>, then I don't see fixing that as "touching"
the photo.
As others have mentioned, the name is just a name. Other cameras -
like my real camera - use names which do not have a date/time in them,
i.e. for example DSC_1342.JPG.
HTH.
BTW, Windows says my timezone is "UTC +1:00"! :-)
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT
i.e. 'incorrect' format.
On 23/10/2023 14:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Even if you define it as the instant the sun is that the exact south,
there is a yearly variance to one side or the other; I think it is up
to about 16 minutes. So the definition of UTC uses the word "average".
You mean the definition of GMT.
UTC is defined by atomic time.
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and
it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
On 23/10/2023 15:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 15:24, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
professional life or applications anymore.
That is not correct. It has the same relevance as CEST time.
I think mean solar time (like GMT) is still used by astronomers, though
maybe only in the calculation of other things like sidereal time.
On 10/23/23 11:55 AM, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 23/10/2023 19:49, Chris wrote:
I accept that, but I was hoping that Joerg, the authority on GMT and
how it
changes between summer and winter, could explain it himself.
He's in my killfile for a reason.
I've only killfiled two people. One is RS and the other is a genuine
loon who has been carrying on a flame war (now pretty much alone) since 1999. He complains about death threats too. Wondering how he can still
be alive in the midst of all these killers is also considered a death
threat.
Thunderbird makes it easy to just ignore people you want to avoid.
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-22 01:17:
On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
...
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the
computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day.
I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.
Why? The clock of a digital camera can just be set to UTC.
Exactly. The only way to avoid those errors is to use UTC for all
timestamps in the cameras memory cards.
On 2023-10-23 18:49, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and
it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
Spain summer time (CEST) is two hours off the Sun or meridian time,
which is why other Europeans think we dinner so late. The Sun in August
sets about at 22 hours on the eastern coast.
Probably Hamster is the culprit and there's probably little I can do
about it, because Hamster is very old software, which I want/have to
keep using.
I just looked in the "advanced config" editor of Thunderbird, to see
what I can find.
mailnews.display.date_senders_timezone
default is false, I just set it to true. Now when I set the focus on
your email, it says at the right of the header panel 18:09 +0000, and
for Stan it says 09:54 -0700
But in the list of emails panels it says 20:09 and 18:54, which are
probably my local time.
I don't see where to change the format of the first line, the "On date,
name wrote"
On 23 Oct 2023 21:58:53 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 18:49, Stan Brown wrote:No, it's because you do eat dinner so late - we are capable of setting our watches to local time. But it's getting better. Hasn't the Spanish
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and >>>> it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
Spain summer time (CEST) is two hours off the Sun or meridian time,
which is why other Europeans think we dinner so late. The Sun in August
sets about at 22 hours on the eastern coast.
government been encouraging parents to get their children to bed earlier because they were falling asleep in school in the morning?
On 2023-10-23 23:26, Dave Royal wrote:
On 23 Oct 2023 21:58:53 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 18:49, Stan Brown wrote:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and >>>>> it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
Spain summer time (CEST) is two hours off the Sun or meridian time,
which is why other Europeans think we dinner so late. The Sun in August
sets about at 22 hours on the eastern coast.
No, it's because you do eat dinner so late - we are capable of setting our >> watches to local time. But it's getting better. Hasn't the Spanish
government been encouraging parents to get their children to bed earlier
because they were falling asleep in school in the morning?
I haven't heard of that.
It is quite difficult to send kids to sleep while the sun is shining,
anyway.
On 2023-10-23 23:26, Dave Royal wrote:
On 23 Oct 2023 21:58:53 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 18:49, Stan Brown wrote:No, it's because you do eat dinner so late - we are capable of setting our >> watches to local time. But it's getting better. Hasn't the Spanish
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and >>>>> it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
Spain summer time (CEST) is two hours off the Sun or meridian time,
which is why other Europeans think we dinner so late. The Sun in August
sets about at 22 hours on the eastern coast.
government been encouraging parents to get their children to bed earlier
because they were falling asleep in school in the morning?
I haven't heard of that.
It is quite difficult to send kids to sleep while the sun is shining,
anyway.
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On 23 Oct 2023 14:07:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:change to
[quoted text muted]
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK
BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Well, very recently, *you* used it! :-) [1]
On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
No that was a quote of the time information in your article. I think
that should be numerics with a + or - sign (in my case -0700, as
indeed Gravity generates). I'm not familiar enough with the standard
to say that GMT is wrong in an article's timestamp, but it's
certainly inconsistent.
Ah! Thanks!
I thought you had lost the plot! :-) But you are right.
Here is what happened (and still happens):
In my 'posted' file, the header of my article is
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 12:43:04 -0000
i.e, the correct 'new' format.
But I run a personal local news server (Hamster), so the post from my
newsreader goes to Hamster, which later posts it to the 'real' news
server (News.Individual.Net, the same as you use). Apparently it goes
wrong in that latter phase, because the article as it is on the real
news server has
Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT
i.e. 'incorrect' format.
Probably Hamster is the culprit and there's probably little I can do
about it, because Hamster is very old software, which I want/have to
keep using.
Thanks again.
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in >professional life or applications anymore.
On 23 Oct 2023 21:58:53 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-23 18:49, Stan Brown wrote:No, it's because you do eat dinner so late - we are capable of setting our watches to local time.
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 07:43:27 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
We here in The Colonies had double daylight savings time one year, and >>>> it was very nice.
Which year was that? ISTR that one year, possibly in the Nixon era,
we skipped the transition from DST to standard time,(*) but I don't
recall we ever went to two hours ahead of standard time.
Spain summer time (CEST) is two hours off the Sun or meridian time,
which is why other Europeans think we dinner so late. The Sun in August >>sets about at 22 hours on the eastern coast.
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."
-- B. Ward
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:24:01 +0200, Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
professional life or applications anymore.
Make up your mind Jörg. Two days ago you were saying "GMT does not
exist anymore.". Today you're saying it does still exist.
On t 2023 18:09:03 GMT Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On 23 Oct 2023 14:07:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:change to
[quoted text muted]
GMT doesn't change in the summer. In the summer clocks in the UK
BST which is GMT+1.
Is there even GMT any more? I thought it had changed to UTC.
Well, very recently, *you* used it! :-) [1]
On 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
No that was a quote of the time information in your article. I think
that should be numerics with a + or - sign (in my case -0700, as
indeed Gravity generates). I'm not familiar enough with the standard
to say that GMT is wrong in an article's timestamp, but it's
certainly inconsistent.
Ah! Thanks!
I thought you had lost the plot! :-) But you are right.
Here is what happened (and still happens):
In my 'posted' file, the header of my article is
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 12:43:04 -0000
i.e, the correct 'new' format.
But I run a personal local news server (Hamster), so the post from my
newsreader goes to Hamster, which later posts it to the 'real' news
server (News.Individual.Net, the same as you use). Apparently it goes
wrong in that latter phase, because the article as it is on the real
news server has
Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT
i.e. 'incorrect' format.
Probably Hamster is the culprit and there's probably little I can do
about it, because Hamster is very old software, which I want/have to
keep using.
Thanks again.
The time format is defined in RFC 5322, which also describes the
'obsolete' standard which you're using.
It explains why I see both -0000(UTC) and -0000(GMT) [but not, say, -0700(EST) ] and that -0000 is not necessarily the same as +0000.
I don't generate the time so E-S must do it.
Am 24.10.23 um 10:05 schrieb Chris in Makati:
On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 15:24:01 +0200, Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net>
wrote:
On 23.10.23 11:30, Chris in Makati wrote:
GMT certainly does still exist. It's defined as the time at which the
sun is directly overhead at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich, London
It may still exist as a definition but it has no meaning whatsoever in
professional life or applications anymore.
Make up your mind Jörg. Two days ago you were saying "GMT does not
exist anymore.". Today you're saying it does still exist.
Officially it does not exist anymore but some habits die hard in the
private Domain.
On 2023-10-23 20:02, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-22 01:17:
On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
...
No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the
computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day.
I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.
Why? The clock of a digital camera can just be set to UTC.
Yes and no... I can not tell the configuration that the time zone is UTC
(and that there is no summer time). I can set the actual time digits to
UTC, but it doesn't know that it is UTC, and when importing to the
computer it is a mess.
Also, if the camera can get the time from GPS directly or indirectly, it messes my adjustments.
The Real Bev wrote:
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."
-- B. Ward
I like your signoff line. When my dad first took me out for a driving
lesson it was in a Ford Zodiac with a bench seat. He got out, I slid across the seat to the drivers side and he walked round the front and got in the passenger side. He pondered a moment and said that that was stupid -
walking in front of the car whilst the engine was running and I was in charge. We had a laugh, but the next time we did the manoeuvre he smiled
and walked round the back of the car. The he smiled ruefully and said "Just
a minute - it's got a reverse gear!"
As life has gone by I've leant that it's just like that all the time - you just can't win!
On 10/24/23 2:03 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
The Real Bev wrote:
"If your mechanic claims that he stands behind his brake jobs, keep
looking. You want to find one willing to stand in front of them."
-- B. Ward
I like your signoff line. When my dad first took me out for a driving
lesson it was in a Ford Zodiac with a bench seat. He got out, I slid across >> the seat to the drivers side and he walked round the front and got in the
passenger side. He pondered a moment and said that that was stupid -
walking in front of the car whilst the engine was running and I was in
charge. We had a laugh, but the next time we did the manoeuvre he smiled
and walked round the back of the car. The he smiled ruefully and said "Just >> a minute - it's got a reverse gear!"
As life has gone by I've leant that it's just like that all the time - you >> just can't win!
When I was perhaps 5 I heard that a neighbor boy's legs had been crushed >between cars, one of which was parked and one of which moved. I still
hate to pass between parked cars and if I have to I always check
carefully to make sure they're empty.
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-23 22:06:
On 2023-10-23 20:02, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-22 01:17:
On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
...
I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw?
Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the
computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day. >>>>
Why? The clock of a digital camera can just be set to UTC.
Yes and no... I can not tell the configuration that the time zone is UTC
(and that there is no summer time). I can set the actual time digits to
UTC, but it doesn't know that it is UTC, and when importing to the
computer it is a mess.
So the camera does not have a timezone at all and you can not tell the computer, that the time information should be treated as UTC?
[...]
Also, if the camera can get the time from GPS directly or indirectly, it
messes my adjustments.
Well - if the camera would use GPS for time synchronization, than it
would have to use UTC and adjust the time according to a local timezone
you have to set.
On 10/23/23 8:44 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
[Rewind/repeat:]
I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo.
I don't consider a name change of the *file* to be a non-untouched *photo*. If you - like me - consider a name in local time to be better, more accurate, <whatever>, then I don't see fixing that as "touching"
the photo.
That probably counts as access time, which is a 'touch'. I should look.
I know linux keeps track of that... Not going to worry about this any
more -- explanation in different post.
On 2023-10-23 20:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
...
Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT
i.e. 'incorrect' format.
I just looked in the "advanced config" editor of Thunderbird, to see
what I can find.
mailnews.display.date_senders_timezone
default is false, I just set it to true. Now when I set the focus on
your email, it says at the right of the header panel 18:09 +0000, and
for Stan it says 09:54 -0700
But in the list of emails panels it says 20:09 and 18:54, which are
probably my local time.
I don't see where to change the format of the first line, the "On date,
name wrote"
On 2023-10-24 14:28, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-23 22:06:
On 2023-10-23 20:02, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-22 01:17:
On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
...
I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw? >>>>>> Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the >>>>> computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day. >>>>
Why? The clock of a digital camera can just be set to UTC.
Yes and no... I can not tell the configuration that the time zone is UTC >> (and that there is no summer time). I can set the actual time digits to
UTC, but it doesn't know that it is UTC, and when importing to the
computer it is a mess.
So the camera does not have a timezone at all and you can not tell the computer, that the time information should be treated as UTC?
The camera(s) has timezones, just not UTC.
My first camera (samsung) has "cities", so it also has summer time.
I could use London, GMT+0, winter time; but then the computer doesn't
know the media is UTC, always assumes local time and gets the time
wrong. I might mount the media manually and find an option to supersede
the time, I have not looked in detail.
My second camera (Nikon) has no battery now.
My third camera (Lumix) does the same as the first, and is a decade newer.
I just had a quick look at man mount.ntfs-3g, and I don't see a timezone setting.
[...]
Also, if the camera can get the time from GPS directly or indirectly, it >> messes my adjustments.
Well - if the camera would use GPS for time synchronization, than it
would have to use UTC and adjust the time according to a local timezone
you have to set.
It doesn't. It reads local time from the connected phone over wifi/BT
On 2023-10-24 14:28, Arno Welzel wrote:[...]
So the camera does not have a timezone at all and you can not tell the
computer, that the time information should be treated as UTC?
The camera(s) has timezones, just not UTC.
I don't use a date/time in the attribution line of my posts, because I
think it's not relevant most of the time and people can easily look it
up if they think it's relevant.
If I think it is relevant, for example when responding to a rather old
post, I add the date manually.
If people use date/time in their attribution line, I think they should
try to use the timezone of the poster they are referring to.
In your case, the date/time is correct, but because we're in the same
timezone, I can't check if you're referring to the parent poster's
timezone ('correct') or your timezone ('wrong').
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-23 20:09, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
...
Date: 11 Oct 2023 12:43:10 GMT
i.e. 'incorrect' format.
I just looked in the "advanced config" editor of Thunderbird, to see
what I can find.
mailnews.display.date_senders_timezone
default is false, I just set it to true. Now when I set the focus on
your email, it says at the right of the header panel 18:09 +0000, and
for Stan it says 09:54 -0700
But in the list of emails panels it says 20:09 and 18:54, which are
probably my local time.
I don't see where to change the format of the first line, the "On date,
name wrote"
I don't use a date/time in the attribution line of my posts, because I think it's not relevant most of the time and people can easily look it
up if they think it's relevant.
If I think it is relevant, for example when responding to a rather old post, I add the date manually.
If people use date/time in their attribution line, I think they should
try to use the timezone of the poster they are referring to.
In your case, the date/time is correct, but because we're in the same timezone, I can't check if you're referring to the parent poster's
timezone ('correct') or your timezone ('wrong').
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-24 14:28, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-23 22:06:
On 2023-10-23 20:02, Arno Welzel wrote:
Carlos E. R., 2023-10-22 01:17:
On 2023-10-21 23:28, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/21/23 12:23 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 21.10.23 um 18:27 schrieb The Real Bev:
...
I would love to have my cameras in Zulu aka UTC time, and I can't.No idea how you could change it permanently. Is it possible btw? >>>>>>>> Never tried on my Pixel.
I usually change the filenames as soon as I dump the photos to the >>>>>>> computer, but I just happened to notice the difference the other day. >>>>>>
Why? The clock of a digital camera can just be set to UTC.
Yes and no... I can not tell the configuration that the time zone is UTC >>>> (and that there is no summer time). I can set the actual time digits to >>>> UTC, but it doesn't know that it is UTC, and when importing to the
computer it is a mess.
So the camera does not have a timezone at all and you can not tell the
computer, that the time information should be treated as UTC?
The camera(s) has timezones, just not UTC.
My first camera (samsung) has "cities", so it also has summer time.
I could use London, GMT+0, winter time; but then the computer doesn't
know the media is UTC, always assumes local time and gets the time
wrong. I might mount the media manually and find an option to supersede
the time, I have not looked in detail.
My second camera (Nikon) has no battery now.
My third camera (Lumix) does the same as the first, and is a decade newer.
Strange! All our cameras - probably ten or so over time - could always
be manually set to the desired time and if they had a DST setting, that
could be turned off.
What I actually *do*, is set them to the local time of the place where
we take the photos, because that's what gets recorded in the EXIF part
of the JPEG file.
I just had a quick look at man mount.ntfs-3g, and I don't see a timezone
setting.
Why would a timezone matter? That would affect the timestamps *of* the files (atime, mtime, ctime), not the times *in* (the EXIF part of) the
file.
IIRC, Unix timestamps of files are seconds from Epoch (whatever date
in 1970) and in UTC. The file utitities translate that to local time
when doing 'ls -l' like things, I.e. the *display* is in local time,
but the *storage* is in UTC.
[...]
Also, if the camera can get the time from GPS directly or indirectly, it >>>> messes my adjustments.
Well - if the camera would use GPS for time synchronization, than it
would have to use UTC and adjust the time according to a local timezone
you have to set.
It doesn't. It reads local time from the connected phone over wifi/BT
FTR, non of my cameras had/have GPS, so GPS could/can not clobber the
time I had/have manually set.
(The local time here is 19:30)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:30:24 -0000 (UTC)
Let us not forget that a time, whether it be in the post's timestamp or an attribution, does not indicate what timezone the _poster_ is in.
On 25 Oct 2023 13:41:20 -0700 Stan Brown wrote:
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Dave Royal wrote:
(The local time here is 19:30)
Something is wrong somewhere. The date in your article header was
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:30:24 -0000 (UTC)
Which is what my newsreader picked up for the attribution in my
followup.
Let us not forget that a time, whether it be in the post's timestamp or an >>> attribution, does not indicate what timezone the _poster_ is in.
I don't understand. What is the time in the header of a Usenet
article supposed to indicate, then?
The time that E-S accepted my post.
I am in the UK. The local time is now 22:22 BST. BST is UTC+0100.
On 14th September 05:52:04 (UTC) I posted to the thread 'Just a few
trivial network questions' in this NG - from Trieste, where I think the
local time was UTC+2.
On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:30:24 -0000 (UTC), Dave Royal wrote:
(The local time here is 19:30)
Something is wrong somewhere. The date in your article header was
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 18:30:24 -0000 (UTC)
Which is what my newsreader picked up for the attribution in my
followup.
Let us not forget that a time, whether it be in the post's timestamp or an >> attribution, does not indicate what timezone the _poster_ is in.
I don't understand. What is the time in the header of a Usenet
article supposed to indicate, then?
UT1 is the same but based on atomic time but specified by an offset from
UTC. I think it's always within 0.1 second of UTC but I'm not sure.
No, AFAIK the date header is written by your software (at the time of >sending) and should be in your locale.
IF it is missing, then the nntp server will add one.
On 25 Oct 2023 23:41:25 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:
I wrote the software ;)
No, AFAIK the date header is written by your software (at the time of
sending) and should be in your locale.
IF it is missing, then the nntp server will add one.
I don't provide the time header. It was simpler.
Why 'should' it be the time my locale?
From RFC 5322:
Though "-0000" also indicates Universal Time, it is used to indicate that
the time was generated on a system that may be in a local time zone other than Universal Time and that the date-time contains no information about
the local time zone.
So it may tell you something about the TZ of the system generating it, but that may not be in the same TZ as the user's NNTP client.
FWIW I display all times in UTC. But as you see I quote a post's time as
it arrived which I think is helpful. Perhaps I should add [21:41 UT]?
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/23/23 8:44 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
[Rewind/repeat:]
I change this with jhead (20231018-114736.jpg), but sometimes I
want to send the exact untouched-in-any-way photo.
I don't consider a name change of the *file* to be a non-untouched
*photo*. If you - like me - consider a name in local time to be better,
more accurate, <whatever>, then I don't see fixing that as "touching"
the photo.
That probably counts as access time, which is a 'touch'. I should look.
I know linux keeps track of that... Not going to worry about this any
more -- explanation in different post.
Yes, I know you are not going to worry about this any more, so this is just a technical point:
Linux/Unix indeed keeps track of the access time (atime), but you can change that, so if you (or your software) keep track of it, you can
change it back to what it was. What you can't change - and which gets
changed if you change any of the other times - is the ctime (used to be called the change-of-inode time).
But you talked about "send"ing these files, so the access time gets changed anyway and the ctime of the destination file will be different
then that of the source anyway.
EOP (End Of Pedantics)! :-)
On 10/25/23 4:48 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
EOP (End Of Pedantics)! :-)
'Pedantry' would be more appropriate :-)
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/25/23 4:48 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
EOP (End Of Pedantics)! :-)
'Pedantry' would be more appropriate :-)
You're - of course - correct.
I wanted something like EOD (Discussion) and started with Pedantic,
but wanted a 'verbish'-noun (like discussing -> discussion), but there
Google Translate 'failed' me and came up with Pedantics. This poor
Dutchie can't win them all! :-)
--
Cheers, Bev
Non illegitimi carborundum.
Am 28.10.23 um 06:33 schrieb The Real Bev:
--
Cheers, Bev
Non illegitimi carborundum.
Ave The Real Bev! Morituri te salutant!
*SCNR* ;-)
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