Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads.
So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow.
But if it does, you're prepared.
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads.
So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to record,
and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow.
But if it does, you're prepared.
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads.
So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow.
But if it does, you're prepared.
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads.
So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow.
But if it does, you're prepared.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads.
So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone.
Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to
record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow.
But if it does, you're prepared.
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
The BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
Tile Pro (https://www.tile.com/en-us) has a BT range of 400 feet, and
works with apps for both Android and iOS. Obviously only Airtag or Tile users are going to have the app installed or active on their phones.
Not everyone walking by your locator will have the app installed, or
their phone powered on whether they have the app or not.
Considering the mobile market share of Android versus iOS, I'd opt for
the Tile locator.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-since-2009/
Just remember it will be a tiny share of the mobile phone market that
has the matching app installed.
Finding your phone doesn't require a locator tag. It's other stuff you
want to find where a locator tag is needed.
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
The BT signal is obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
Tile Pro (https://www.tile.com/en-us) has a BT range of 400 feet, and
works with apps for both Android and iOS. Obviously only Airtag or Tile users are going to have the app installed or active on their phones.
Not everyone walking by your locator will have the app installed, or
their phone powered on whether they have the app or not.
Considering the mobile market share of Android versus iOS, I'd opt for
the Tile locator.
Just remember it will be a tiny share of the mobile phone market that
has the matching app installed.
Finding your phone doesn't require a locator tag. It's other stuff you
want to find where a locator tag is needed.
Seems these locators are more oriented for use in large
metropolis than out in the burbs or boonies.
Could be, but we're still talking about the density of mobile device
users that happen to be within 100-400 feet of wherever is your lost
item. In a metropolis, or high density locations (e.g., airport), the chances are much better. In the burbs, or farther out, forget it.
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads. >>> So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. >>> Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to
record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow. >>> But if it does, you're prepared.
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
Which is all of them.
\ \ \ \ \__ very small marketThe BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the
signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
And ipads, macs, ipods, airpods and apple watches.
Except only a tiny fraction of mobile users will have the Tile app.
Whereas pretty much every single apple device has FindMy. That's well
over a billion devices. AirTags are far more likely to be pinged than
a Tile.
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
As far as I know, this is not correct. They don't need to have any
'Find My' *app* running, but they need to have enabled the
*functionality* to do the detection. And according to our Apple friends,
most if not all Apple devices have that turned on. (This would have been
a case were crossposting to misc.phone.mobile.iphone, *would* have been appropriate! :-()
The BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the
signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
Tile Pro (https://www.tile.com/en-us) has a BT range of 400 feet, and
works with apps for both Android and iOS. Obviously only Airtag or Tile
users are going to have the app installed or active on their phones.
Not everyone walking by your locator will have the app installed, or
their phone powered on whether they have the app or not.
Considering the mobile market share of Android versus iOS, I'd opt for
the Tile locator.
Before I bought our AirTags, I investigated both AirTags and Tiles and came to the opposite conclusion: Yes, there are more Androids than
iPhones, but what counts is the combination of Android *and* an installed/working Tile app. Because Find My is a kind of default for
iPhone users, the number of relevant iPhones probably largely outweighs
the number of relevant Android phones.
This was confirmed by information on 'unbiased' (i.e. Apple *and*
Android) webshops and my reported field test and implied by your
comment:
Just remember it will be a tiny share of the mobile phone market that
has the matching app installed.
Finding your phone doesn't require a locator tag. It's other stuff you
want to find where a locator tag is needed.
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads. >>>> So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or >>>> your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. >>>> Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to >>>> record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow. >>>> But if it does, you're prepared.
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
Which is all of them.
Ah, I didn't know the Find My app would be running all the time while draining the battery.
"Find My Service is ALWAYS running, as long as the phone is powered on,
and even for 24 hours after the phone is powered off."
(From a forum post.)
If true, powering off your iPhone won't stop all battery drain. The
only way to stop the service is to logout of the app which also disables
the activation lock on the phone. GPS must also be kept running, so the phone finding the locator tag can report its position. There's the
drain to keep the BT and GPS radios active along with running the app.
Well, the same is true of using Android devices: run the app, GPS and BT active. So, do you want to drain your battery helping other users find
their stuff?
On 10/18/2023 10:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<anip>
I can say that my luggage was not detected in the Montreal airport.
Maybe iphones don't detect the Tile. In Spain yes, it was detected.
iPhones will detect Tile tags if the iPhone user has installed the Tile
app.
The advantage of the Apple Airtags, at least in the U.S., is that
iPhones are pervasive so the chance of someone with an iPhone (where no
app is required) passing within receiving distance of a transmitting
Airtag is much greater than the chance of someone that has installed the
Tile app, whether on an iPhone or an Android device, passing close
enough to a Tile tag. What's needed is a "Google Tag" with the
capability being part of stock Android, not an app that needs to be installed.
Apple would never enable full-functionality of Airtags for Android, even though it would help them sell more Airtags, for the same reason that
they will not allow iMessage on Android.
I can say that my luggage was not detected in the Montreal airport.
Maybe iphones don't detect the Tile. In Spain yes, it was detected.
On 2023-10-18 20:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
As far as I know, this is not correct. They don't need to have any
'Find My' *app* running, but they need to have enabled the
*functionality* to do the detection. And according to our Apple friends,
most if not all Apple devices have that turned on. (This would have been
a case were crossposting to misc.phone.mobile.iphone, *would* have been
appropriate! :-()
The BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the >>> signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
Tile Pro (https://www.tile.com/en-us) has a BT range of 400 feet, and
works with apps for both Android and iOS. Obviously only Airtag or Tile >>> users are going to have the app installed or active on their phones.
Not everyone walking by your locator will have the app installed, or
their phone powered on whether they have the app or not.
Considering the mobile market share of Android versus iOS, I'd opt for
the Tile locator.
Before I bought our AirTags, I investigated both AirTags and Tiles and
came to the opposite conclusion: Yes, there are more Androids than
iPhones, but what counts is the combination of Android *and* an
installed/working Tile app. Because Find My is a kind of default for
iPhone users, the number of relevant iPhones probably largely outweighs
the number of relevant Android phones.
This was confirmed by information on 'unbiased' (i.e. Apple *and*
Android) webshops and my reported field test and implied by your
comment:
Just remember it will be a tiny share of the mobile phone market that
has the matching app installed.
Finding your phone doesn't require a locator tag. It's other stuff you
want to find where a locator tag is needed.
You need to use a tag gadget that uses the new Android api, which is not
the Tile as of this summer. This api runs fulltime on Android and is compatible with Apple. Google and Apple reached some kind of agreement
for interworking.
But an agreement benefits them in areas where there are many more
Androids than iPhones. So, there is an agreement.
On 10/18/2023 5:11 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<snip>
But an agreement benefits them in areas where there are many more
Androids than iPhones. So, there is an agreement.
Thanks, this has not gotten much publicity.
<https://chipolo.net/en-us/products/chipolo-one-point>
But it's premature. We are working in partnership with Apple to help finalize the joint unwanted tracker alert specification by the end of
this year. At this time weve made the decision to hold the rollout of
the Find My Device network until Apple has implemented protections for
iOS. Also, the devices are sold out.
But once they work everything out it does indeed look like a good system.
But thieves could also use the Scan and Secure app to see if they are
being tracked. So, Tile came out with a feature to hide their tags from
Scan and Secure.
With cooperation with Apple, and to differentiate old incompatible Tiles
with Tiles supporting the new API, might they be called iTiles?
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-18 20:12, Frank Slootweg wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's >>>> also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal, >>>> and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
As far as I know, this is not correct. They don't need to have any
'Find My' *app* running, but they need to have enabled the
*functionality* to do the detection. And according to our Apple friends, >>> most if not all Apple devices have that turned on. (This would have been >>> a case were crossposting to misc.phone.mobile.iphone, *would* have been
appropriate! :-()
The BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the >>>> signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
Tile Pro (https://www.tile.com/en-us) has a BT range of 400 feet, and
works with apps for both Android and iOS. Obviously only Airtag or Tile >>>> users are going to have the app installed or active on their phones.
Not everyone walking by your locator will have the app installed, or
their phone powered on whether they have the app or not.
Considering the mobile market share of Android versus iOS, I'd opt for >>>> the Tile locator.
Before I bought our AirTags, I investigated both AirTags and Tiles and >>> came to the opposite conclusion: Yes, there are more Androids than
iPhones, but what counts is the combination of Android *and* an
installed/working Tile app. Because Find My is a kind of default for
iPhone users, the number of relevant iPhones probably largely outweighs
the number of relevant Android phones.
This was confirmed by information on 'unbiased' (i.e. Apple *and*
Android) webshops and my reported field test and implied by your
comment:
Just remember it will be a tiny share of the mobile phone market that
has the matching app installed.
Finding your phone doesn't require a locator tag. It's other stuff you >>>> want to find where a locator tag is needed.
You need to use a tag gadget that uses the new Android api, which is not
the Tile as of this summer. This api runs fulltime on Android and is
compatible with Apple. Google and Apple reached some kind of agreement
for interworking.
Android 14 was released Oct 4, 203. I bet the new API won't be
available until Android 15+ or later, so sometime around Q3 2024. My
phone keeps limping along on Android 8.
With cooperation with Apple, and to differentiate old incompatible Tiles
with Tiles supporting the new API, might they be called iTiles?
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 10/18/2023 5:11 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
<snip>
But an agreement benefits them in areas where there are many more
Androids than iPhones. So, there is an agreement.
Thanks, this has not gotten much publicity.
<https://chipolo.net/en-us/products/chipolo-one-point>
But it's premature. “We are working in partnership with Apple to help
finalize the joint unwanted tracker alert specification by the end of
this year. At this time we’ve made the decision to hold the rollout of
the Find My Device network until Apple has implemented protections for
iOS.” Also, the devices are sold out.
But once they work everything out it does indeed look like a good system.
Wonder how long before the politicians catch up to pass laws making it illegal to use these trackers unless sanctioned by court order. Like
raising the crime from burglary to robbery, might stalkers be prosecuted
more harshly if they use a tracker? There are increasing reports on the
use of trackers related to spousal abuse.
Indiana
https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2023/bills/senate/161/details
Kentucky
https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/23rs/sb199.html
Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey (proposals) https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/airtag-legislation-pennsylvania-ohio-new-jersey/
Hmm, if a tracker can track a person, someone has to do the tracking.
So, if a person gets tracked then it seems you can detect who is doing
the tracking. Catch the stalker with his own tracker.
On 10/18/23 19:53, VanguardLH wrote:
With cooperation with Apple, and to differentiate old incompatible Tiles
with Tiles supporting the new API, might they be called iTiles?
That doesn't flow super well. Maybe like, Apple Tiles?
Ah, I didn't know the Find My app would be running all the time while draining the battery.
"Find My Service is ALWAYS running, as long as the phone is powered on,
and even for 24 hours after the phone is powered off."
(From a forum post.)
If true, powering off your iPhone won't stop all battery drain. The
only way to stop the service is to logout of the app which also disables
the activation lock on the phone. GPS must also be kept running, so the phone finding the locator tag can report its position. There's the
drain to keep the BT and GPS radios active along with running the app.
Well, the same is true of using Android devices: run the app, GPS and BT active. So, do you want to drain your battery helping other users find
their stuff?
It is already prohibited on planes luggage, on the ground of batteries exploding, even though they use non rechargeable batteries. Fortunately,
they don't scan for them when doing the check in.
There is already a class of luggage that is "smart", because they come
with a tracker. They are listed as prohibited.
At least the company I last flew with had that in their web page.
There are many bad things they can do.
Put a tracker on the kids in order to find
the hidden wife,
that ran away from the beatings, for
instance.
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]
Ah, I didn't know the Find My app would be running all the time while
draining the battery.
"Find My Service is ALWAYS running, as long as the phone is powered on,
and even for 24 hours after the phone is powered off."
(From a forum post.)
If true, powering off your iPhone won't stop all battery drain. The
only way to stop the service is to logout of the app which also disables
the activation lock on the phone. GPS must also be kept running, so the
phone finding the locator tag can report its position. There's the
drain to keep the BT and GPS radios active along with running the app.
Well, the same is true of using Android devices: run the app, GPS and BT
active. So, do you want to drain your battery helping other users find
their stuff?
The "drain" by the service (not "the app") and Bluetooth can be very little. Realize that the AirTag runs for at least a year on a CR2032
button cell. The phone (et al) doesn't need to use more than that amount
of power for doing its bit of the detecting.
And what makes you think GPS must be on all the time?
GPS not needed for detecting an AirTag (or other Apple device). A
location service - not neccessarily GPS - might be needed to report the location of the detected device.
See also Carlos' response on the (non-)"drain" of his battery for the
Tile 'app'.
Moral:
We know that you like to investigate all kinds of technical stuff,
often stuff which you do not have/use. That's fine. But it's not so fine
when you're doubting - and sometimes even disputing - people who *do*
have and use said stuff.
So if you present your theory, then *say* it's your theory. Don't
present your thinking as facts.
[...]
VanguardLH wrote:
Wonder how long before the politicians catch up to pass laws making
it illegal to use these trackers unless sanctioned by court order.
Like raising the crime from burglary to robbery, might stalkers be
prosecuted more harshly if they use a tracker? There are increasing
reports on the use of trackers related to spousal abuse.
It is already prohibited on planes luggage, on the ground of batteries exploding, even though they use non rechargeable batteries.
Fortunately, they don't scan for them when doing the check in.
There is already a class of luggage that is "smart", because they come
with a tracker. They are listed as prohibited.
There are many bad things they can do. Put a tracker on the kids in
order to find the hidden wife, that ran away from the beatings, for
instance.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
Wonder how long before the politicians catch up to pass laws making
it illegal to use these trackers unless sanctioned by court order.
Like raising the crime from burglary to robbery, might stalkers be
prosecuted more harshly if they use a tracker? There are increasing
reports on the use of trackers related to spousal abuse.
It is already prohibited on planes luggage, on the ground of batteries
exploding, even though they use non rechargeable batteries.
Fortunately, they don't scan for them when doing the check in.
I have never seen a CR-2032 lithium battery explode. But then I would
think whatever is generating the high level of heat, like a fire, around
the battery would be of far more concern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnJ-jrkrAQ
(starts to expand about timemark 1:10)
They can pop if shorted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C7sXUg5N6M
(timemark 1:30)
Yet they allow phones in the airports and on the airlines which have
much larger lithium batteries.
There is already a class of luggage that is "smart", because they come
with a tracker. They are listed as prohibited.
https://www.foxnews.com/tech/here-proof-some-airlines-not-fans-airtag-trackers
"The main thing that airlines may dislike about AirTags is that the
trackers can potentially do a better job at locating a lost bag."
Not sure why they would fear someone or something else finding a lost
bag that they could not. Here the airlines have to pay for lost bags.
https://www.airhelp.com/en/lost-or-delayed-luggage/
"The average compensation from an airline for checked luggage that is
either lost or damaged is $1,525 – $3,500, under U.S. and Montreal Convention air passenger rights laws."
I've only had 1 lost bag. I've had them enjoy longer and more flights
than I, but lost only once. They give themselves many days to find the
bag. On the lost bag, I didn't anywhere near that amount for
compensation. It was more like $200, but it's been a long time to
really remember how much they paid. They claim took months to process.
The above Fox article (yeah, I know, Fox News) says the ban got lifted
when the FCC made rulings in favor of locator tags. After all, those
same airlines were allowing passengers to carry onboard their phones
which have much larger batteries, and made of lithium, along with more radiated power from the BT, GPS, cellular, and wi-fi radios.
There are many bad things they can do. Put a tracker on the kids in
order to find the hidden wife, that ran away from the beatings, for
instance.
Or, to recover the kids when kidnapped by an ex-spouse. Like good
things, they can be used for bad purpose, like baseball bats to the
head, or screwdrivers into the torso.
Seems the airtags are limited to one community: Apple users. While
Tiles are covered by both communities: Apple and Android. With Apple,
FindMy is always running (unless you disable the service) which drains battery power due to app power, GPS radio power, and BT power, and for
24 hours after you thought you powered off the phone. With Android,
battery drain happens, too, when running the app.
On 10/18/2023 12:28 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
<snip.
Seems the airtags are limited to one community: Apple users. While
Tiles are covered by both communities: Apple and Android. With Apple,
FindMy is always running (unless you disable the service) which drains
battery power due to app power, GPS radio power, and BT power, and for
24 hours after you thought you powered off the phone. With Android,
battery drain happens, too, when running the app.
There are a lot fewer Android users that have installed the Tile app
than there are iOS users that don't have to install anything.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
[...]
Ah, I didn't know the Find My app would be running all the time while
draining the battery.
"Find My Service is ALWAYS running, as long as the phone is powered on,
and even for 24 hours after the phone is powered off."
(From a forum post.)
If true, powering off your iPhone won't stop all battery drain. The
only way to stop the service is to logout of the app which also disables >> the activation lock on the phone. GPS must also be kept running, so the >> phone finding the locator tag can report its position. There's the
drain to keep the BT and GPS radios active along with running the app.
Well, the same is true of using Android devices: run the app, GPS and BT >> active. So, do you want to drain your battery helping other users find
their stuff?
The "drain" by the service (not "the app") and Bluetooth can be very little. Realize that the AirTag runs for at least a year on a CR2032
button cell. The phone (et al) doesn't need to use more than that amount
of power for doing its bit of the detecting.
And what makes you think GPS must be on all the time?
GPS not needed for detecting an AirTag (or other Apple device). A location service - not neccessarily GPS - might be needed to report the location of the detected device.
See also Carlos' response on the (non-)"drain" of his battery for the Tile 'app'.
Moral:
We know that you like to investigate all kinds of technical stuff,
often stuff which you do not have/use. That's fine. But it's not so fine when you're doubting - and sometimes even disputing - people who *do*
have and use said stuff.
So if you present your theory, then *say* it's your theory. Don't
present your thinking as facts.
[...]
Consider where the OP posted about airtags. Um, what's the name of this newsgroup again? This is NOT an Apple newsgroup. Duh! Not only did
micky post in the wrong newsgroup, but his claim of using a borrowed
iPhone to find an airtag won't work - and I'm using your claim for the
basis that his statement was incorrect.
You're walking around with your phone. Does the power to the BT radio
vary based on the device to which it is currently connected? You think
the BT radio will consume less power as you're walking along whether connecting to BT devices, or not. I don't make that assumption.
It has
to connect to both LE and non-LE devices. An RF meter would determine
which of us is correct. Because BT draws power is why some users turn
it off to extend battery up-time.
Same for GPS.
How accurate are Apple's location services on a phone when GPS is
disabled?
What sources for location does Apple use that Android does
not? Well, if they're walking around consuming power for the BT radio
when not even connected to any BT devices, why wouldn't they be wasting
power on keeping the GPS radio active? Why waste power on the GPS radio
if it weren't included in location services?
How accurate are Apple's location services without GPS? With GPS? If
adding GPS didn't improve accuracy, why would anyone be wasting power on
the GPS radio? Accuracy of GPS is 5 to 10 meters. Cell tower
triangulation has an average accuracy that varies from 500m to 1500m
(*). Telling someone that their airtag is somewhere in the suburb where
is an airport isn't helpful. With GPS, and if the phone locks on 4 satellites instead of 3, altitude is also included, so an airtag user
getting a report from a smartphone users whose GPS radio gets 4 sats can
tell if their bag is at the airport, or on a plane to some other city.
(*) https://www.safetrax.in/how-gps-cell-tower-and-wi-fi-triangulation-help-in-tracking-location
GPS [is] not needed for detecting an AirTag (or other Apple device). A location service - not neccessarily GPS - might be needed to report the location of the detected device.
I wasn't talking about the airtags power consumption. Its 1-year
battery life seems impressive to me. I was talking about power
consumption on the phone to make possible the use of locator tags.
The phone (et al) doesn't need to use more than that amount
of power for doing its bit of the detecting.
Phone users are unlikely to disable GPS, so their phones are consuming
power to the GPS radio whether there is a locator tag nearby, or not.
They'll also have the BT radio active all the time. Those still consume power whether a locator tag was found, or not. However, a service
(process) running all the time will consume power than when that service
is disabled (and FindMy can be disabled). Having the FindMy service is Apple's way to trying to ensure their tags will work or the phone can be found rather than rely on a Tile app getting loaded in the background.
<https://cnnespanol.cnn.com/2023/08/06/aerolinea-maleta-perdida-rastreador-airtag-trax/>
use Google translate, but being cnn there should be already an English version somewhere.
How accurate are Apple's location services on a phone when GPS is
disabled?
I didn't say GPS was disabled. I said "GPS [is] not needed for
detecting an AirTag (or other Apple device)". Now (re)read (for comprehension) the rest of that paragraph.
the BT radio will not be "active" all the time, nor will the service/
process be "running" all the time. Both will be active/running only
*part* of the time.
How many times do I have to say it?
Both companies have agreed on it, maybe need to negotiate some bits more.
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads. >>> So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or
your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. >>> Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to
record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow. >>> But if it does, you're prepared.
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
Which is all of them.
The BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the
signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
And ipads, macs, ipods, airpods and apple watches.
Tile Pro (https://www.tile.com/en-us) has a BT range of 400 feet, and
works with apps for both Android and iOS. Obviously only Airtag or Tile
users are going to have the app installed or active on their phones.
Not everyone walking by your locator will have the app installed, or
their phone powered on whether they have the app or not.
Considering the mobile market share of Android versus iOS, I'd opt for
the Tile locator.
Except only a tiny fraction of mobile users will have the Tile app. Whereas pretty much every single apple device has FindMy. That's well over a
billion devices. AirTags are far more likely to be pinged than a Tile.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/272698/global-market-share-held-by-mobile-operating-systems-since-2009/
Just remember it will be a tiny share of the mobile phone market that
has the matching app installed.
For the Tile only.
Finding your phone doesn't require a locator tag. It's other stuff you
want to find where a locator tag is needed.
On 10/19/23 09:11, micky wrote:
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
Inhaler?
Scenario 1: BT radio is active, and scanning for BT devices. Whether
any BT devices are connected or not, the BT radio stays on
looking for more devices.
How much power does the BT radio in the phone consume?
Scenario 2: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. Connection
established.
How much more power does the BT radio consume for just that
connection?
Scenario 3: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. Connection
established. FindMy service is always running. Report is
sent via Internet (cellular data or wifi) to Apple. Does
the cellular radio consume any more power to send the data?
I didn't say GPS was disabled. I said "GPS [is] not needed for
detecting an AirTag (or other Apple device)". Now (re)read (for comprehension) the rest of that paragraph.
GPS is never needed for /detecting/ airtags or tiles. That's a BT connection. I don't see where I misunderstood or mistated that the
locator tag was using GPS nor that GPS was mandatory for reporting the location of a tag. If I did, sorry. I was wondering how accuracy
suffers if the *phone* is not incorporating GPS with its location
services.
Disabled versus off. Really, you're going to argue about that?
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:^^^^^^^^______________^^^^^^^^
micky wrote:
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
Inhaler?
Inhalers are okay but inhalers will never be allowed.
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Scenario 1: BT radio is active, and scanning for BT devices. Whether
any BT devices are connected or not, the BT radio stays on
looking for more devices.
The BT radio isn't 'on' all the time, it's polling.
Scenario 2: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. Connection
established.
How much more power does the BT radio consume for just that
connection?
The "connection" is very short, probably milliseconds, but even a even seconds uses negligible amounts of power compared to overal power
consumption of the phone.
Scenario 3: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. Connection
established. FindMy service is always running. Report is
sent via Internet (cellular data or wifi) to Apple. Does
the cellular radio consume any more power to send the data?
Sigh! Are you serious!? Yes, but it's also negligible. The normal
phone to/from tower polling uses *way* more power than the few seconds
(if that much) needed to exchange the data.
Face it, for the scanning for and detecting of BT devices, the Find My service does a similar thing as is done by Corana/COVID tracking apps.
The latter do hardly use any additional power (compared to the normal functions of the phone). (Yes, we've actually used said app for a long,
long time. So again *facts*, instead of silly baseless assumptions.)
There is no reason to assume that the Find My service uses
substantially more power than the Corana/COVID tracking apps. After all,
the framework for both is developed by Apple.
No, what you said was much worse. You said that GPS had to be on for
the whole time.
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
Deep thoughts: Airtags for Android
I gather that most functions of airtags only work with iphones or ipads. >>>> So, get them anyhow if you're concerned someone will steal your car or >>>> your luggage or your shipments. Even if you only have an android phone. >>>> Borrow a phone or ipad to set them up, record on paper what you have to >>>> record, and IF anything is ever lost or stolen, run out and buy an
iphone. How long does that take? It will probably never happen anyhow. >>>> But if it does, you're prepared.
It's not just iPhones that are required to setup (as Frank noted), it's
also iPhones that must be close to the Airtag to pick up the BT signal,
and those iPhones need to be running the Find My app.
Which is all of them.
Ah, I didn't know the Find My app would be running all the time while draining the battery.
"Find My Service is ALWAYS running, as long as the phone is powered on,
and even for 24 hours after the phone is powered off."
(From a forum post.)
If true, powering off your iPhone won't stop all battery drain.
The
only way to stop the service is to logout of the app which also disables
the activation lock on the phone.
GPS must also be kept running, so the
phone finding the locator tag can report its position. There's the
drain to keep the BT and GPS radios active along with running the app.
Well, the same is true of using Android devices: run the app, GPS and BT active. So, do you want to drain your battery helping other users find
their stuff?
Find My can be turned off in settings, so I may not be running on all
those claimed billions (*) of Apple devices.
(*) With a market share of 27%, and a worldwide population of 8 billion (neglecting distribution is not equal across all nations), there could
only 2 billion Apple devices, but that's around the world, and not where
is your device. From what I've read, the estimate is there are 1.46
billion active iPhones. I suspect you are correct in that there will be fewer Androids running the Tile app around wherever is your locator tag.
The point is detection is not as ubiquitous as the marketers want you to believe. Seems these locators are more oriented for use in large
metropolis than out in the burbs or boonies. Can't see anyone detecting
your device you lost while riding a tractor out in the middle of a corn field.
\ \ \ \ \__ very small marketThe BT signal is
obviously too weak to transmit far enough for any Apple server to
receive, so nearby iPhones running the app must be present to pickup the >>> signal. You find your Airtag using other people's iPhones.
And ipads, macs, ipods, airpods and apple watches.
\ \ \ \__ Airpods Pro 2nd gen
\ \ \__ discontinued 2014
\ \__ only for laptops, desktops are fixed
\__ sales dipped to half in 2018, but came back up
Except only a tiny fraction of mobile users will have the Tile app.
Whereas pretty much every single apple device has FindMy. That's well
over a billion devices. AirTags are far more likely to be pinged than
a Tile.
Could be, but we're still talking about the density of mobile device
users that happen to be within 100-400 feet of wherever is your lost
item. In a metropolis, or high density locations (e.g., airport), the chances are much better. In the burbs, or farther out, forget it.
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 18 Oct 2023 22:14:05 -0500,
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/18/23 19:53, VanguardLH wrote:
With cooperation with Apple, and to differentiate old incompatible Tiles >>> with Tiles supporting the new API, might they be called iTiles?
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 18 Oct 2023 22:14:05 -0500,
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/18/23 19:53, VanguardLH wrote:
With cooperation with Apple, and to differentiate old incompatible Tiles >>>> with Tiles supporting the new API, might they be called iTiles?
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
So no iron, ironing board, induction cooker, ice cream maker, ice cube
tray? Or no internet?
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Scenario 1: BT radio is active, and scanning for BT devices. Whether
any BT devices are connected or not, the BT radio stays on
looking for more devices.
The BT radio isn't 'on' all the time, it's polling.
BT LE sleeps at intervals, and why it saves power. Does BT Classic do
that, too? Your phone should be capable of connecting to both.
What is the polling interval on the phone's BT radio?
Scenario 2: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. Connection
established.
How much more power does the BT radio consume for just that >>> connection?
The "connection" is very short, probably milliseconds, but even a even
seconds uses negligible amounts of power compared to overal power
consumption of the phone.
When I made my statement, did I say there was a huge drain on the
battery? I didn't equate it to a muscle car when you floor it you can
see the gas gauge creep down to empty. Did I say there was a
significant drain on the battery? No, I said there battery drain.
Minimizing how much is the drain doesn't obviate there is a drain.
There is dirt on your face. Could be your face is covered with mud, or
just a little smudge. Regardless of magnitude, there is dirt on your
face.
Because I, nor anyone here, so far, knows what is the battery drain
under various scenarios of connection protocols, no one has yet to give
info on just how much drain is caused by the always-running FindMy (iOS)
or Find My Device (Android) services which obviously must be using the
BT radio whether a constant on-state or by a short BT poll initiated by
the services.
Seems this is deep dark technology that neither Apple or
Google are divulging. So far, my web crawling hasn't turned up details, either. All you get are personal experiences related as stories. I'm
not sure this detailed info is exposed.
Scenario 3: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. Connection
established. FindMy service is always running. Report is
sent via Internet (cellular data or wifi) to Apple. Does
the cellular radio consume any more power to send the data?
Sigh! Are you serious!? Yes, but it's also negligible. The normal
phone to/from tower polling uses *way* more power than the few seconds
(if that much) needed to exchange the data.
I wouldn't thought the FindMy or Find My Device services would use texts since those require less initial (setup) power to establish a connection
to a cell tower than the initial burst of power to establish a call.
This is something else that I've not found noted: how the reporting
service connects to the server collecting the data (cellular call,
cellular data, wifi). Could be I just have not yet happened upon the technical details on what method reporting uses, but I've not seen
anyone here yet offer their opinion or surmise. Could be it tries a
call, upon failing that tries texting, upon failing that tries cellular
data for an Internet connection, but if the phone has a wifi connection
then try that first for an Internet connection.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:^^^^^^^^______________^^^^^^^^
micky wrote:
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
Inhaler?
Inhalers are okay but inhalers will never be allowed.
You lost me. I want in on the joke.
It's about Apple prefixing an "i" then wouldn't it be iNhalers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMTdZqsp_KM
"Could those be the miners?"
"Sure, I mean, they're like 3 years old."
"Miners, not minors."
"You lost me."
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:^^^^^^^^______________^^^^^^^^
micky wrote:
Heavens, no. No device that starts witn i will ever be allowed in my
house.
Inhaler?
Inhalers are okay but inhalers will never be allowed.
You lost me. I want in on the joke.
It's about Apple prefixing an "i" then wouldn't it be iNhalers?
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest
and it seems pretty funny.
On 2023-10-19 21:10, VanguardLH wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
Wonder how long before the politicians catch up to pass laws making
it illegal to use these trackers unless sanctioned by court order.
Like raising the crime from burglary to robbery, might stalkers be
prosecuted more harshly if they use a tracker? There are increasing
reports on the use of trackers related to spousal abuse.
It is already prohibited on planes luggage, on the ground of batteries
exploding, even though they use non rechargeable batteries.
Fortunately, they don't scan for them when doing the check in.
I have never seen a CR-2032 lithium battery explode. But then I would
think whatever is generating the high level of heat, like a fire, around
the battery would be of far more concern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnJ-jrkrAQ
(starts to expand about timemark 1:10)
They can pop if shorted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C7sXUg5N6M
(timemark 1:30)
Yet they allow phones in the airports and on the airlines which have
much larger lithium batteries.
What they prohibit is batteries in the check in luggage. They tell you
to put anything with batteries in your carry on luggage inside the
cabin, where if they catch fire a human will see it and act.
Anything: watches, calculators, shaving machines...
On those where the batter can be removed, they tell you to do so and
carry the batteries inside the cabin.
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest
and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone
set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
A 1 hour 48 minute movie of Equalizer 3
took a little under 3 minutes to capture, but it's all in Italian, and
no subtitles, so no reason to keep it.
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone
set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
On 10/21/23 4:33 PM, micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D >>
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and
another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone
set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an
accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
Let your conscience be your guide.
adb shell cmd activity start --user 0 -a android.intent.action.VIEW -n com.google.android.gms/com.google.android.personalsafety.settings.BleTagSettingsActivity -f 0 com.google.android.gms
On 2023-10-21 05:36, VanguardLH wrote:[...]
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Because I, nor anyone here, so far, knows what is the battery drain
under various scenarios of connection protocols, no one has yet to give info on just how much drain is caused by the always-running FindMy (iOS)
or Find My Device (Android) services which obviously must be using the
BT radio whether a constant on-state or by a short BT poll initiated by
the services.
I know from personal experience how much the Android Tile App takes: 1%.
I don't suppose other apps will be much different.
Scenario 3: BT radio is on. BT LE device detected. ConnectionSigh! Are you serious!? Yes, but it's also negligible. The normal
established. FindMy service is always running. Report is >>> sent via Internet (cellular data or wifi) to Apple. Does >>> the cellular radio consume any more power to send the data? >>
phone to/from tower polling uses *way* more power than the few seconds
(if that much) needed to exchange the data.
I wouldn't thought the FindMy or Find My Device services would use texts since those require less initial (setup) power to establish a connection
to a cell tower than the initial burst of power to establish a call.
This is something else that I've not found noted: how the reporting
service connects to the server collecting the data (cellular call,
cellular data, wifi). Could be I just have not yet happened upon the technical details on what method reporting uses, but I've not seen
anyone here yet offer their opinion or surmise. Could be it tries a
call, upon failing that tries texting, upon failing that tries cellular data for an Internet connection, but if the phone has a wifi connection then try that first for an Internet connection.
Just Internet. Why complicate things?
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:59:24 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 4:33 PM, micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev >>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>>>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D >>>
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and >>> another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone >>> set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an
accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
Let your conscience be your guide.
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
I can't use my conscience if I don't know if the free one is legit or
not.
It's conceivable that the movies are public domain but yet someone is charging anyhow, just because they can and people will pay. Or maybe
they have a better quality print somehow so that's why they charge, or
maybe they could charge because when they posted it, no one else had
yet. But that the other that is free is fully legit. Does that happen?
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:59:24 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 4:33 PM, micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev >>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>>>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D >>>
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and >>> another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone >>> set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an
accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
Let your conscience be your guide.
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
I can't use my conscience if I don't know if the free one is legit or
not.
It's conceivable that the movies are public domain
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:59:24 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 4:33 PM, micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev >>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>>>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D >>>
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and >>> another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone >>> set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an
accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
Let your conscience be your guide.
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
I can't use my conscience if I don't know if the free one is legit or
not.
It's conceivable that the movies are public domain
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
I can't use my conscience if I don't know if the free one is legit or
not.
It depends on the country. Here, downloading is legal as far as I
remember, but sharing is not.
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
They are.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:59:24 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 4:33 PM, micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev >>>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:Let your conscience be your guide.
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>>>>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and >>>> another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone >>>> set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an >>>> accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right? >>>
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
They are. Most jurisdictions are turning a blind eye to downloads and some >have even put it into law.
However, anyone uploading copyrighted material can be prosecuted.
I can't use my conscience if I don't know if the free one is legit or
not.
It's conceivable that the movies are public domain
Copyright for films is 50 years (in many countries) supposedly but the >studios still claim other rights in order to restrict the availability in
the public domain. Disney is a classic example as all their early work
should be in the public domain by now. >https://screenrant.com/characters-public-domain-disney-copyright-lobby/
However, anyone uploading copyrighted material can be prosecuted.
In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 22 Oct 2023 16:31:55 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:59:24 -0700, The Real Bev >>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 4:33 PM, micky wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev >>>>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:Let your conscience be your guide.
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest
and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and >>>>> another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone >>>>> set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it? >>>>>
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an >>>>> accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right? >>>>
But I'm asking if the free ones are a violation of copyright?
They are. Most jurisdictions are turning a blind eye to downloads and some >> have even put it into law.
Wow. That's like making a law that receiving stolen goods is legal.
(there was something in law school called BPV, bona fide puchaser for
value, but clearly I never understood where that applied.
However, anyone uploading copyrighted material can be prosecuted.
And yet they're so blatant, and that's what got me thinking it was
really legal.
I can't use my conscience if I don't know if the free one is legit or
not.
It's conceivable that the movies are public domain
Copyright for films is 50 years (in many countries) supposedly but the
studios still claim other rights in order to restrict the availability in
the public domain. Disney is a classic example as all their early work
should be in the public domain by now.
https://screenrant.com/characters-public-domain-disney-copyright-lobby/
I wouldn't want just anyone uploading Snow White.
Wow. That's like making a law that receiving stolen goods is legal.
(there was something in law school called BPV, bona fide puchaser for
value, but clearly I never understood where that applied.
It was more about acknowledging that it was unenforceable and putting some boundaries down.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 21 Oct 2023 10:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/23 6:24 AM, micky wrote:
Wow, I don't go to enough movies. I didnt' even hear about Galaxy Quest >>>> and it seems pretty funny.
See it. You won't be disappointed.
Well, it's on youtube, $4 to rent and 15 to buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KzpIbSVZs&pp=ygUNIEdhbGF4eSBRdWVzdA%3D%3D >>
It's not the case here but sometimes there is a version to rent/buy, and
another version that's free. The free version doesn't look like someone
set up a camera pointing at the TV, so where does the poster get it?
I presume, but am not quite certain, that it's stolen and I would be an
accessory if I watch it instead of the paid version, is that not right?
https://www.lookmovie2.to
They don't want webcrawlers or webbots to download all their content >consuming bandwidth for days on end. You may get a CAPTCHA to use.
Do a search on a movie, say, equalizer and notice you can get v3 of the
movie series. Find something interesting in your cable provider's
channel lineup, but it's a premium channel (HBO, MAX, SHO)? Try here to >watch or get a copy. To reduce bandwidth, they probably reduce
resolution compare to what you could rent/buy.
If you don't want to keep re-watching through a web site, get a
streaming capture program. Some folks use web browser add-ons. I use >jaksta's Media Recorder that operates as a web proxy, doesn't make we
wait to capture until the video is done playing, download rate is as
fast as the server will deliver, starts the download without even
needing the web browser still loaded, etc. It is not a screen capture
proxy. It captures the audio/video stream. It's not free ($50).
Once you start playing a video stream, jaksta will discover where is the >source, and continue the download. You don't have to watch the movie,
and probably better to stop the one playing in the web browser to reduce >bandwidth to stream 2 copies. Often you don't have to even leave the
web browser running, but I've hit sites where exiting the web browser
aborts the streaming to jaksta. I stop the video, leave the web browser >open, and wait until jaksta gets the video which is usually a lot faster
than having to watch the video. A 1 hour 48 minute movie of Equalizer 3
took a little under 3 minutes to capture, but it's all in Italian, and
no subtitles, so no reason to keep it.
Some movies will play in a foreign language. You may have to find a
movie dubbed in your language, but too often the dubs are poorly done by
the voice actors. Subtitles (closed captioning) will not be captured as
that is a separate stream from the video stream.
Although RTMPe (encrypted RTMP) was not intended to be a DRM enforcement >scheme, lots of sites use it that way. Jaksta will not record RTMPe to >prevent illegal recording of encrypted streams. You have to use another
tool to capture RTMPe streams, and those tools tend to move around where >hosted to avoid the law.
Also, there are sites that use Javascripted web apps to view videos.
The encoding is in the player, so only that player at the time of
download (a different key is inserted) can be used to play the video.
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