Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps obtains your location using cell tower data as described in this reference?
Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps obtains your location using cell tower data as described in this reference?
*How Maps finds your current location*
<https://support.google.com/maps/answer/2839911?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid>
Maps estimates where you are from sources like:
a. GPS:
Maps uses satellites to know your location up to around 20 meters.
When you're inside buildings or underground, the GPS is sometimes
inaccurate.
b. Wi-Fi: The location of nearby Wi-Fi networks helps Maps know
where you are.
c. Cell tower: Your connection to mobile data can be accurate
up to a few thousand meters."
Note the use of "mobile data" (and not "cellular data") in the above.
I was always aware that Google "could" use at least four types of data
1. GPS (which, IMHO, is perfectly sufficient alone for most needs)
2. Wi-Fi (i.e., your SSID/BSSID/dBm/GPS uploaded by your rude neighbors)
3. IP address geolocation (often more to the ISP's datacenter than you)
4. Cellular tower location (these are unique - but maps are proprietary)
Previously I was unaware Maps was actually _using_ cell-tower geolocation.
If Google Maps is using cell-tower geolocation, how do you turn that off?
Where do they get the database given they're supposedly not published by
the cellular carriers (although they are open sourced widely otherwise)?
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps obtains your location using cell tower data as described in this reference?
*How Maps finds your current location*
<https://support.google.com/maps/answer/2839911?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid>
Maps estimates where you are from sources like:
a. GPS:
Maps uses satellites to know your location up to around 20 meters.
When you're inside buildings or underground, the GPS is sometimes
inaccurate.
b. Wi-Fi: The location of nearby Wi-Fi networks helps Maps know
where you are.
c. Cell tower: Your connection to mobile data can be accurate
up to a few thousand meters."
Note the use of "mobile data" (and not "cellular data") in the above.
I was always aware that Google "could" use at least four types of data
1. GPS (which, IMHO, is perfectly sufficient alone for most needs)
2. Wi-Fi (i.e., your SSID/BSSID/dBm/GPS uploaded by your rude neighbors)
3. IP address geolocation (often more to the ISP's datacenter than you)
4. Cellular tower location (these are unique - but maps are proprietary)
Previously I was unaware Maps was actually _using_ cell-tower geolocation.
If Google Maps is using cell-tower geolocation, how do you turn that off?
Where do they get the database given they're supposedly not published by
the cellular carriers (although they are open sourced widely otherwise)?
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
I was unaware Maps was actually using cell-tower geolocation.
If Google Maps is using cell-tower geolocation, how do you turn that
off?
Where do they get the database given they're supposedly not publishedGoogle have billions of android devices, many/most of which will have
by the cellular carriers
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can
do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine
your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with that!
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
Put the phone in airplane mode?
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
"Wally J" <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote
| Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps
| obtains your location using cell tower data as described in this
| reference?
| *How Maps finds your current location*
To carry a cellphone turned on is to wear a tracking
collar. You ccan make some adjustments, but if you
dopn't want to be tracked then power off your cellphone
when you're not using it. To want to keep your location
private while using these services is missing the point.
Many services won't work at all without location. Uber,
restaurant recommendations, real-time dating apps...
Many free app developers get paid by selling your
private data.
Do you know about Google geofencing? It's a paying
business for them. Some of the Jan 6 rioters were
caught that way:
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/19/google-geofence-warrants/
Some years ago there was also an article about iPhones
storing a log of location data. The reporter used it to create
a map of where he had been for several weeks.
If you want privacy then use maps on a computer and
preferably avoid Google maps. I actually wrote my own
software that gets Bing maps if I need a map. But of
course, most cellphone addicts these days don't know how to
read maps, so they use Waze. Once again, an app that's
of no use without knowing your location.
Long story short, you've missed the concept of living
on a cellphone. Most people who live that way see these
intrusions as services. They don't care about privacy.
It's like you put an ad in the paper to advertise your
yard sale and now you're complaining that people are
coming to your house.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used >> > on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
Put the phone in airplane mode?
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you
are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can
do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine
your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
Put the phone in airplane mode?
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you
are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can
do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for
a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
Put the phone in airplane mode?
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you
are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can
do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine >> > your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with >> > that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for
a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location',
etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which
page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps obtains your location using cell tower data
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?
Put the phone in airplane mode?
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you
are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can
do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine >> > your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with >> > that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via
wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for
a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location',
etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which
page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is usedPut the phone in airplane mode?
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off? >>> >>
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >>> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you >>> > are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can >>> > do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine >>> > your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with >>> > that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >>> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for >>> a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location', >>etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which >>page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the >>'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is usedPut the phone in airplane mode?
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off? >>> >>
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >>> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you >>> > are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can >>> > do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine >>> > your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with >>> > that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >>> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for >>> a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location', >>etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which >>page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the >>'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such a switch, but it does
have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the >>>'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
Ah. Settings | Mobile network (movistar) | Mobile data on/off and
Roaming on/off. Both were on. I was told that Keepgo used T-Mobile and AT&T. When I was setting it up the guy said that it was ok to leave
movistar there (as if I had an actual choice). Movistar is a Spanish
network and Keepgo is supposedly in Spain. OK...
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the >>'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such a switch, but it does
have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
In message <ueiql2$3p8so$1@dont-email.me>
Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps
obtains your location using cell tower data
The timing of the RF burst returned by your phone gives your approximate range from the cell tower. One tower just gives a ring centred on the
tower; the intersections of two or more rings from other towers reduce
the uncertainty.
If your phone is on and able to make and receive calls, there's nothing
you can do to prevent gathering this information.
It can be used by emergency services to locate callers if GPS data are
not available.
David
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg[...]
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for >> a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location', >etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which >page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/21/23 6:29 PM, Wally J wrote:[...]
Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is usedPut the phone in airplane mode?
on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off? >> >>
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
Nope. Google Maps doesn't *show* *you* (or someone else?) where you >> > are. There's no proof that *Google* doesn't know where you are.
In modern Android versions, you can no longer really turn off all
location determination. All you can do is limit what *your* *apps* can >> > do, but you can not prevent other Google/Android components to determine >> > your location. You can only 'trust' Google to do no evil. Good luck with >> > that!
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for >> a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location', >etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which >page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg[...]
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >> >> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for >> >> a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location',
etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which
page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
No, that's the settings/configuration part, i.e. not for day-to-day
use.
I mean a - probably swipe-down - panel which has icons for each of the above functions and these icons function as on/off toggles, i.e. you tap
the icon to switch the function (for example WiFi) on or off.
On most phones. there's also such an icon/toggle for Mobile data. On
my phone. the icon is two white arrows - one up, one down - in a blue
(when on) circle. If the panel is not extended, it only shows the icons.
If it is extended, it shows the icon with its description ('Mobile
data').
Does you Pixel 6a have such a panel with on/off icons/toggles? If so,
how do you get to it?
Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg[...]
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps only via >> >> >> wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell service+location
services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted around for >> >> a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on
the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location',
etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which
page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
No, that's the settings/configuration part, i.e. not for day-to-day
use.
I mean a - probably swipe-down - panel which has icons for each of the
above functions and these icons function as on/off toggles, i.e. you tap
the icon to switch the function (for example WiFi) on or off.
On most phones. there's also such an icon/toggle for Mobile data. On
my phone. the icon is two white arrows - one up, one down - in a blue
(when on) circle. If the panel is not extended, it only shows the icons.
If it is extended, it shows the icon with its description ('Mobile
data').
Does you Pixel 6a have such a panel with on/off icons/toggles? If so,
how do you get to it?
The Pixel2 has the swipe-down thing. No data on/off, but there is a data-saver icon which turns off data downloading in the background --
which I just turned on.
Looking at the battery-usage history I see a number of apps using
minuscule amounts of battery even though I had NOT used those apps.
We'll see if this setting fixes that. Using MY battery to do unwanted
stuff is definitely undesirable.
I just noticed that some apps have a yes/no background battery usage restriction toggle. YESSSSS!
It would be really nice if there were a BIG online manual for Androids.
Having to discover stuff by wandering around randomly in the dark is
less than desirable.
Having to discover stuff by wandering around randomly in the dark is
less than desirable.
I don't think any of us ever took a class in how to use Android.
So we learned it the same way that you are learning it right now.
On 23 Sep 2023 13:10:09 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg[...]
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps
only via wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell
service+location services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted
around for a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on >> >the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location', >> >etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which >> >page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
No, that's the settings/configuration part, i.e. not for day-to-day
use.
I mean a - probably swipe-down - panel which has icons for each of the
above functions and these icons function as on/off toggles, i.e. you tap >the icon to switch the function (for example WiFi) on or off.
On most phones. there's also such an icon/toggle for Mobile data. On
my phone. the icon is two white arrows - one up, one down - in a blue
(when on) circle. If the panel is not extended, it only shows the icons.
If it is extended, it shows the icon with its description ('Mobile
data').
Does you Pixel 6a have such a panel with on/off icons/toggles? If so,
how do you get to it?
Not quite as what you described. Swipe down then Internet gives
two toggles: mobile operator name and Wi-Fi. Press operator name
and a box appears "Turn off mobile data?". The options are Turn
off and Cancel.
Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2023 13:10:09 GMT, Frank Slootweg
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Roger <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 22 Sep 2023 17:58:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg[...]
<this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/22/23 8:16 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
[Rewind/repeat:]
I just found out that MY location is picked up by google maps
only via wifi+location services. With wifi off and cell
service+location services on it can't see me.
In the latter case, was 'Mobile data' off or on?
I can choose 'airplane mode' on/off and wifi on/off. I hunted
around for a 'mobile data'/other choice with no success.
Hmmm!? Strange!? On most phones the 'Mobile data' on/off toggle is on >> >> >the same panel as the 'Wifi', 'Bluetooth', 'Airplane mode', 'Location', >> >> >etc. toggles. My panel has 4 pages and I can arrange what goes on which >> >> >page, so perhaps your 'Mobile data' toggle is not on the main page.
Can someone with a Pixel <whatever> tell Bev where to look for the
'Mobile data' on/off toggle?
Pixel 6a. Settings / Network and Internet / SIMs / Mobile data
No, that's the settings/configuration part, i.e. not for day-to-day
use.
I mean a - probably swipe-down - panel which has icons for each of the
above functions and these icons function as on/off toggles, i.e. you tap
the icon to switch the function (for example WiFi) on or off.
On most phones. there's also such an icon/toggle for Mobile data. On
my phone. the icon is two white arrows - one up, one down - in a blue
(when on) circle. If the panel is not extended, it only shows the icons.
If it is extended, it shows the icon with its description ('Mobile
data').
Does you Pixel 6a have such a panel with on/off icons/toggles? If so,
how do you get to it?
Not quite as what you described. Swipe down then Internet gives
two toggles: mobile operator name and Wi-Fi. Press operator name
and a box appears "Turn off mobile data?". The options are Turn
off and Cancel.
Thanks! Hopefully Bev's Pixel (2?) has a similar panel/setting.
Settings / Network & internet / Mobile network [only when 'on'] /
Mobile data off/on and Roaming off/on
Since I leave the 'phone' off unless *I* want to make (or am expecting)
a call or actually need to use non-wifi data, I'm leaving both settings
ON.
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable Airplane Mode,
which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
Example scenario: At home, streaming video. I don't want to risk that
a WiFi problem makes my phone switch to Mobile data, so I switch off
Mobile data and still can get/make calls (and get/send SMS (Yeah,
*right*!)).
Does your phone have a - probably swipe-down - panel with icons which
work as on/off toggles for things like WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth, Location, >Airplane mode, etc.?
If so - no offense intended - can you drag/swipe down that panel to
get more toggles and more pages?
For example, my swipe-down panel initially shows 5 toggles (I can
configure which ones). If I drag/swipe it down further, I get 2 rows of
4 toggles each. If I swipe left the extended panel, I get 3 more pages
of 8 toggles each.
The settings part (three vertical dots) calls this panel the 'Quick
panel', which term I assume is also used on other Samsung phones.
If so - no offense intended - can you drag/swipe down that panel to
get more toggles and more pages?
Yes, and that's where I finally found a Mobile Data switch, but I'll never use
it because Airplane Mode and WiFi are more important to me, and they do the same
job as the Mobile Data switch.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
Settings / Network & internet / Mobile network [only when 'on'] /
Mobile data off/on and Roaming off/on
I just noticed I didn't have a 1-tap homescreen shortcut to roaming.
So I made one and put that one-tap shortcut into my shortcuts folder.
*Tutorial: How to make a 5-levels deep 1-tap shortcut to Google Precise Location Settings*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KGDGRm7rUO4>
Since I leave the 'phone' off unless *I* want to make (or am expecting)
a call or actually need to use non-wifi data, I'm leaving both settings
ON.
The problem isn't you leaving it on - it's Google's Android turning it off.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yx1yKMTJ/roaming-shortcut.jpg>
Hence you need to have a set of shortcuts to keep Google's location honest.
<https://i.postimg.cc/x1BL0M8G/shortcut-location-accuracy04.jpg>
Since I have a cheap prepaid phone/data SIM I want to use it as little
as possible. Why would I worry about google turning anything off?
On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
c/p
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
Example scenario: At home, streaming video. I don't want to risk that
a WiFi problem makes my phone switch to Mobile data, so I switch off
Mobile data and still can get/make calls (and get/send SMS (Yeah, >*right*!)).
Does your phone have a - probably swipe-down - panel with icons which
work as on/off toggles for things like WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth, Location, >Airplane mode, etc.?
Yes.
If so - no offense intended - can you drag/swipe down that panel to
get more toggles and more pages?
Yes, and that's where I finally found a Mobile Data switch, but I'll
never use it because Airplane Mode and WiFi are more important to me,
and they do the same job as the Mobile Data switch.
For example, my swipe-down panel initially shows 5 toggles (I can
configure which ones). If I drag/swipe it down further, I get 2 rows of
4 toggles each. If I swipe left the extended panel, I get 3 more pages
of 8 toggles each.
The settings part (three vertical dots) calls this panel the 'Quick
panel', which term I assume is also used on other Samsung phones.
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote: >>
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
c/p
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
*my* point:
I don't think any of us ever took a class in how to use Android.
So we learned it the same way that you are learning it right now.
Once you learn it, they change it with the next Android release!
On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such >> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones >> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
c/p
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
*my* point:
You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that hasn't been a big deal.
<snip>
Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane mode.
Does your phone have a - probably swipe-down - panel with icons which >>>work as on/off toggles for things like WiFi, Sound, Bluetooth, Location, >>>Airplane mode, etc.?
Yes.
Thanks for the confirmation. Being a Samsung, I thought it likely that
it would have the Quick panel.
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote: >>
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually
needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such >> >> >> a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing. >> >> >>
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones >> >> >have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones. >> >>
No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
c/p
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung
Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
*my* point:
You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As >> quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that >> hasn't been a big deal.
Ah, I see our confusion!
What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS
(if your provider and phone supports that).
I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS.
Cellular
calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane >mode.
Does this explain our misunderstanding?
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
mode.
Good to know.
The "Airplane mode" quick settings tile turns off all the radios.
The "Sensors off" quick settings tile turns off all the sensors.
That's not quite the full story.
On a "stock" version of Android (such a google Pixel) the first time you
turn on airplane mode, it does indeed turn off all radios.
However, if you manually turn back on bluetooth and wifi radios, the
phone remembers this, and subsequently when you turn on airplane mode it
only turns off the cellular radio (and pops up reminder that this is the case).
On 24 Sep 2023 17:48:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually >> >> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing. >> >> >>
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones. >> >>
No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
c/p
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung >> >> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you
*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
*my* point:
You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
hasn't been a big deal.
Ah, I see our confusion!
What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS
Yes! :)
(if your provider and phone supports that).
I thought that most do, but perhaps it's less than I thought.
I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS.
But doesn't that use Mobile Data where you are? If you turn off Mobile
Data, isn't WiFi your only remaining option for calls/SMS? Where I am,
we don't use circuit switched cellular connections anymore. Instead,
it's all packet switched for quite a few years now, so calls, SMS, and
other data are all just data. At least, that's my understanding.
Cellular
calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the >only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane >mode.
Agreed.
Does this explain our misunderstanding?
Yes, and my apologies for dragging it out. My little neck of the woods may not
be representative of the entire world.
Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:
Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane >> mode.
Good to know.
The "Airplane mode" quick settings tile turns off all the radios.
The "Sensors off" quick settings tile turns off all the sensors.
That's not quite the full story.
On a "stock" version of Android (such a google Pixel) the first time you
turn on airplane mode, it does indeed turn off all radios.
However, if you manually turn back on bluetooth and wifi radios, the
phone remembers this, and subsequently when you turn on airplane mode it
only turns off the cellular radio (and pops up reminder that this is the case).
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 24 Sep 2023 17:48:31 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote: >>
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 24 Sep 2023 09:01:16 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 23 Sep 2023 12:44:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
I would just add that a Mobile Data switch probably isn't actually >> >> >> >> needed. My phone, a Samsung Galaxy S20FE, doesn't appear to have such
a switch, but it does have Airplane Mode, which does the same thing.
If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.
But Airplane mode also disables calls and SMS. That's why most phones
have a 'Mobile data' on/off toggle, in addition to all the other ones.
I think you missed the last part of what I wrote. :)
No, I didn't, but you missed what *I* wrote! :-)
c/p
(emphasis added)If I wanted to disable only Mobile Data, I would have to enable
Airplane Mode, which disables mobile data, WiFi, and BT, **then
manually re-enable WiFi and BT.**
So that's how I disable mobile data, which I admit is an extremely
infrequent thing, but on closer examination I see now that my Samsung >> >> >> Galaxy S20 does, indeed, have a Mobile Data switch. I'll probably
never use it since I'm used to using the Airplane Mode method.
Yes, I understand that. But *my* point is that when you do that, you >> >> >*also* switch off calls and SMS. That may not matter to *you*, but is
*my* point:
You're right, but calls and SMS are only off for a second or two, right? As
quickly as you can hit the WiFi switch, they're back on again. For me, that
hasn't been a big deal.
Ah, I see our confusion!
What's back on is *WiFi* calling/SMS
Yes! :)
(if your provider and phone supports that).
I thought that most do, but perhaps it's less than I thought.
I meant normal 'cellular' calling/SMS.
But doesn't that use Mobile Data where you are? If you turn off Mobile
Data, isn't WiFi your only remaining option for calls/SMS? Where I am,
we don't use circuit switched cellular connections anymore. Instead,
it's all packet switched for quite a few years now, so calls, SMS, and
other data are all just data. At least, that's my understanding.
Yes, it's all data, but it's not all 'Mobile data'. Quite confusing,
but that's how it is. I just had a similar discussion with sms (the
poster), about MMS using data, but not 'Mobile data'.
The easiest to explain is probably that 'Mobile data' is data used for
Internet access and gets billed (or is included in your bundle)
*seperate* from calls/SMS/MMS. Any other data is not 'Mobile data'.
Another comparison/analogy: If you have fixed broadband, every thing -
TV, telephone, Internet - is 'data', but the Internet part is seperate
from the internet parts.
In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is >switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS
part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.
In short: For 'Mobile data' just read 'Mobile Internet use'.
Cellular
calling/SMS is off, because Airplane mode turns off *all* radios and the
only way to turn the 'cellular' radio back on, is to switch off Airplane
mode.
Agreed.
Does this explain our misunderstanding?
Yes, and my apologies for dragging it out. My little neck of the woods may not
be representative of the entire world.
No apology needed, none at all. It's very confusing. I just (think I)
understand *this* bit. Ain't technology great! :-)
On 25 Sep 2023 14:46:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is >switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS >part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.
The most interesting part of what I think you're saying is that even
when Mobile Data is disabled, the cellular radio is apparently not
disabled since calls/SMS are still allowed, so in your situation
disabling Mobile Data is different from Airplane Mode. I wouldn't have expected that. Thanks for that.
An interesting experiment would be for you to do the following:
Switch off 'Mobile data' (you have found where that switch is on your phone) *and* switch off Wi-Fi. Now see if you still can make or receive
a phone call or/and can send or receive a SMS message.
My 'guess' is that you can still do that. If so, we've proven that the 'Mobile data' part (read: Internet access) is off / no longer in use,
but the *other* data for calls and SMS is still on / in use. And that is exactly my point.
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
On 25 Sep 2023 14:46:29 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[Lots deleted.]
In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and
SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is
switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS
part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.
The most interesting part of what I think you're saying is that even
when Mobile Data is disabled, the cellular radio is apparently not
disabled since calls/SMS are still allowed, so in your situation
disabling Mobile Data is different from Airplane Mode. I wouldn't have
expected that. Thanks for that.
Thanks for wording it so succintly! That's indeed the gist of the
issue.
An interesting experiment would be for you to do the following:
Switch off 'Mobile data' (you have found where that switch is on your
phone) *and* switch off Wi-Fi. Now see if you still can make or receive
a phone call or/and can send or receive a SMS message.
My 'guess' is that you can still do that.
If so, we've proven that the
'Mobile data' part (read: Internet access) is off / no longer in use,
but the *other* data for calls and SMS is still on / in use. And that is >exactly my point.
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