With smartphone tech at a plateau - maybe it's time for a sustainable user-serviceable phone with 5 major updates & 8 years of hotfix support https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23843287/fairphone-5-price-release-date-specs-features-repairable-smartphone
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
A lot of people believe in myths and superstitions about Apple support.
You are not an iKook so I will be patient and gentle by providing facts knowing full well there are many people whose belief are imaginary and not based on any facts whatsoever (e.g., people with religious belief systems).
Hence, before I provide you with heartfelt facts, I state you are welcome
to switch between platforms for reasons that are your own personal ones.
However... what you just said is akin to someone saying they switched from Toyota to Honda because their tires kept going flat on the Toyota.
What you express as your desires would make sense if you knew what you're talking about - but unfortunately for you - everything you say - is wrong.
Please do not take this as an insult - just as friendly advice for you to look up how long Apple supports full hotfixes for that iPhone which you "think" is supported for "six or more years".
Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple supports only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes & always has. https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/ https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as
customizable... well, anything.
If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even
a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
rdh wrote:
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
You could go back to the Blackberry...
They don't understand that the reason is extremely obvious why.
a. Apple restricts the apps that users can install on the iPhone
b. Google can't.
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or
more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable... well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone. https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devicesSure, you can connect a keyboard to an Android phone, or an iPhone. I do
I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone too.
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 15:52:15 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
You could go back to the Blackberry...
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
do?
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
do?
External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
just have a keyboard on my phone.
In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't >> even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or
more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable... >> well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year)
Android phone, I might switch back.
I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
do?
On 8/31/23 12:12, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone.Sure, you can connect a keyboard to an Android phone, or an iPhone. I do
https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devices
I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone
too.
it sometimes. But I don't want to pull out a second device to type on my phone, I just want my keys back.
On 8/31/23 15:23, David Higton wrote:
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard do?
External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
just have a keyboard on my phone.
If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the >>entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.
The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
access when I'm *not* home.
but IMHO they scored a massive own goal by using a MediaTek chip, which is bottom of the barrel in terms of support for Android updates from the manufacturer.
On 8/31/23 1:23 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't >>> even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or >>> more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable... >>> well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year)
Android phone, I might switch back.
I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard
do?
Those are cute, but disappointing. Quite a while back I had a roll-up >near-full-size USB keyboard .
Surely there's a bluetooth version
available now.
https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/bluetooth-roll-up-keyboard
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 14:59:37 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/31/23 1:23 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <e52IM.207810$nEzb.38585@fx36.iad>
rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of >>>> phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes don't
even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates six or >>>> more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as customizable...
well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even a five year) >>>> Android phone, I might switch back.
I was just reading about Fairphone, who promise exactly what you're
asking for. I have no personal experience to go on though.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard >>> do?
Those are cute, but disappointing. Quite a while back I had a roll-up >>near-full-size USB keyboard .
So did I. I used mine with my tablet back when I used a tablet. I
stopped using it, because I often found keys to be unresponsive.
Surely there's a bluetooth version
available now.
I don't particularly care whether it's wired or wireless, but I do
care whether it would work with my Pixel 4a phone.
If you or someone else could recommend an inexpensive reliable
portable (rollup, folding, or just very small) keyboard that I could
easily take with me when I traveled, I'd give it a try.
https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/bluetooth-roll-up-keyboard
On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard >>> do?
External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
just have a keyboard on my phone.
If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
The phone can be set to show up as double or triple original size too.
You can do it either with just a monitor (and nothing else) or a PC.
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 23:29:29 +0200, Peter Moylin
<peter@moylin.invalid> wrote:
On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard >>> do?
External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
just have a keyboard on my phone.
If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the >entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.
The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
access when I'm *not* home.
The phone can be set to show up as double or triple original size too.
You can do it either with just a monitor (and nothing else) or a PC.
On 01/09/23 13:56, Theo wrote:
but IMHO they scored a massive own goal by using a MediaTek chip, which is bottom of the barrel in terms of support for Android updates from the manufacturer.
These are August 2023 Smartphone Processors Rankings I found in a search. https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-list/rating
What kind of "Android updates" are you seeking for the hardware CPU?
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Thu, 31 Aug 2023 23:29:29 +0200, Peter Moylin
<peter@moylin.invalid> wrote:
On 31/08/23 22:56, rdh wrote:
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard >> >>> do?
External keyboards are fine, but it's just another thing to charge,
another thing to keep around, another thing to pull out... I'd rather
just have a keyboard on my phone.
If you're sitting at your desk at home or at work, you just mirror the
entire phone (including keyboard, mouse & clipboard) onto the display.
That's useless, as far as I'm concerned. If I'm sitting at my desk,
I'm going to use my desktop PC, not my phone.
The only reason I have a smart phone is to provide e-mail and web
access when I'm *not* home.
If that's *your* only use of your smartphone, then using your computer
(instead of your smartphone) when you're at home is indeed the sensible
thing to do.
So, while they are still all on sale, you're getting a 3-6 year old OS and a lack of security updates.
Here... I'll help you with the references which prove that Apple
supports only one (yes - only a single release) for full hotfixes &
always has.
https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/ >https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security- >flaws-in-latest-os-releases >https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/
An iPhone whose number of zero-day holes is astronomical, and getting worse year over year to the tune of twice a month and, even worse, an iPhone
whose full hotfix support instantly dies the moment a new release is
shipped, and,*as a result, has _ten times_ as many _active_ exploits*...
As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
In rare
cases they may make the security patches available for a prior version
of iOS such as 15.x.
But to be fair, every iPhone will receive at
least 5-6 full iOS versions, which each will contain updates as they
become available.
In terms of security patches - So that means iPhones will remain fully supported
with security patches over that time span so long as the user upgrades
to each new version of iOS and also downloads the security patches (hotfixes).
I think you're saying Android does it differently and you don't have to upgrade to new full versions of the OS, yet you can still receive
security patches even if your phone has the original version.
If this is true, why do you think Android's model is better?
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
You could go back to the Blackberry...
It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone. https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devices
I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone too.
Does it have to be integrated, or will a pocket-sized Bluetooth keyboard do?
Those are cute, but disappointing.
Quite a while back I had a roll-up
near-full-size USB keyboard . Surely there's a bluetooth version
available now.
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote
As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
Hi badgolferman,
As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they
are.
Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand
my response. Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon
ignorant iKooks.
On 2023-08-30 07:48, Wally J wrote:
With smartphone tech at a plateau - maybe it's time for a sustainable
user-serviceable phone with 5 major updates & 8 years of hotfix support
https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23843287/fairphone-5-price-release-date-specs-features-repairable-smartphone
Let's just see how it actually does in the marketplace.
On 2023-09-01, Wally J <walterjones@invalid.nospam> wrote:
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote
As you imply, Apple's security hotfixes (updates) are only guaranteed
for the latest full upgrade, which currently is iOS 16.x.
Hi badgolferman,
As you're well aware - I will agree with any sensible point of view.
No matter whom it is from - as I care what people say - not who they
are.
Also, I will assume you have the capacity to understand
my response. Which contains detail I don't normally bestow upon
ignorant iKooks.
...goes on to repeat the same "iKooks are mentally children who don't
know as much as me" bullshit he's been slinging for literal years...
Arlen is and always will be a fucking clown. 🤣
On 8/31/23 12:12, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
It's super easy to add a physical keyboard to any Android phone.Sure, you can connect a keyboard to an Android phone, or an iPhone. I do
https://source.android.com/docs/core/interaction/input/keyboard-devices
I would think it would be just as easy to add a keyboard to the iPhone
too.
it sometimes. But I don't want to pull out a second device to type on my phone, I just want my keys back.
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote
So, while they are still all on sale, you're getting a 3-6 year old OS and a >> lack of security updates.
There are at least three ways, fundamentally, to approach your objections.
What people care about, more than an almost meaningless Android major
version number, are the hotfix patches - which - as I already said - are happening to every Android phone in existence already - via the Project Mainline Google Play Systems updates (unless you turned them off).
I repeat - you're already getting hotfix patches to _dozens_ of critical Android modules - and you've been getting them seamlessly for years - ever since Android 4.4 - so never say you're not getting plenty of hotfixes.
What people care about, more than an almost meaningless Android major
version number, are the hotfix patches - which - as I already said - are
happening to every Android phone in existence already - via the Project
Mainline Google Play Systems updates (unless you turned them off).
No.
I don't get updates automatically on any of my "old" phones. Meaning the manufacturer doesn't provide them.
I only get application updates, and not on all apps. Some apps even disappear.
I repeat - you're already getting hotfix patches to _dozens_ of critical
Android modules - and you've been getting them seamlessly for years - ever >> since Android 4.4 - so never say you're not getting plenty of hotfixes.
No, I don't.
That's pretty insulting to all those magnificent fucking clowns out there.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
That's pretty insulting to all those magnificent fucking clowns out there.
Given one of my two goals on this newsgroup is to...
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
What people care about, more than an almost meaningless Android major
version number, are the hotfix patches - which - as I already said - are >>> happening to every Android phone in existence already - via the Project
Mainline Google Play Systems updates (unless you turned them off).
No.
Hi Carlos,
Yes. What you don't understand is Android updates in a series of layers.
<https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/>
Your phone has been updating scores of critical hardware and software components of your operating system from Android 4.4 to Android 14.
<https://venturebeat.com/business/google-details-project-mainline-updating-android-modules-via-google-play/>
Project Mainline has been updating all Android phones since 2019.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/413714/what-is-androids-project-mainline-and-when-will-my-phone-get-it/>
Where the number of modules seamlessly updated over the Google Framework increases with every Android version (soon it may be the entire OS!).
<https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-android-14/>
All this is completely independent of the manufacturer or carrier support!
<https://www.xda-developers.com/google-android-runtime-art-mainline-module-android-12/>
I don't get updates automatically on any of my "old" phones. Meaning the
manufacturer doesn't provide them.
Sigh. If I'm patient with you, I have to first inform you, as I did with badgolferman, that the concept of "updates" is far more complex than you
seem to comprehend - which - isn't your fault - but which is clear to me.
<https://www.esper.io/blog/what-is-project-mainline>
Only someone with adult comprehensive skills can comprehend that the word "updates" is too generic for you to make the sweeping claim you just made.
<https://www.droidviews.com/googles-project-mainline/>
As badgolferman did before you, nobody stands a chance of comprehending
what it means to "update" iOS or Android if they don't first understand
_how_ Android and iOS update (which clearly you do not understand).
<https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/android-project-mainline-everything-you-need-to-know/>
One critical part of the way Android updates daily, is Project Mainline.
<https://www.droidviews.com/googles-project-mainline/>
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
One critical part of the way Android updates daily, is Project Mainline. >>> <https://www.droidviews.com/googles-project-mainline/>
That doesn't count to me as "updates". It has to be done automatically
by the manufacturer, me doing nothing at all, to count.
Hi Carlos,
Sigh.
That sentiment is absurdly preposterous given it's like saying that you
don't count driver updates on Windows, for example, as updates - because
they don't come from the manufacturer of your computer (e.g., from Dell)...
One critical part of the way Android updates daily, is Project Mainline.
<https://www.droidviews.com/googles-project-mainline/>
That doesn't count to me as "updates". It has to be done automatically
by the manufacturer, me doing nothing at all, to count.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
Each system does updates differently.
On Android, it is via manufacturers.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Each system does updates differently.
Not really. Windows, Linux & Android update similarly.
On 2023-09-02 22:46, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Each system does updates differently.
Not really. Windows, Linux & Android update similarly.
"similarly" is NOT "the same".
'NOT "the same" IS "differently".
We can say that I only consider as update doing them in the official
way. If the official way changes, then I'll change.
In any case, my old tablets/phones do not have version 10, so this new
method doesn't apply to them. And my two active phones are getting
official updates.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
We can say that I only consider as update doing them in the official
way. If the official way changes, then I'll change.
In any case, my old tablets/phones do not have version 10, so this new
method doesn't apply to them. And my two active phones are getting
official updates.
Hi Carlos,
What you need to understand is the English language, where you considering every word to mean only what you comprehend is not the way language works.
Android updates itself in multiple layers - each of which is an update.
Assuming a hundred ways that Android updates itself, for you to only
consider one of those as an "update" is your choice - but it's incorrect.
However, in your defense, a lot of people are completely ignorant of the adult complexities involved when any operating system they own is updated.
Not continuing reading, from the point you consider people not adult or ignorant.
Not continuing reading, from the point you consider people not adult or ignorant. That's insulting. Learn politeness if you want to talk to me.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not continuing reading, from the point you consider people not adult or
ignorant. That's insulting. Learn politeness if you want to talk to me.
Hi Carlos,
I tell the truth.
If you don't like the truth about yourself - whose fault is that?
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
And you should be informed EVERYTHING on that iOS monolith becomes _instantly_ unsupported the moment Apple stops supporting that 1 release.
Meanwhile on _every other common consumer platform_, the drivers, and the default system apps and the core modules, etc., are supported for as long
as a decade or more.
Android still fully supports all Android 10 and up phones for up to 37 core modules which are automatically updated over the Internet every single day.
Even Qualcomm firmware drivers are supported seamlessly over the Internet. All of this you were completely ignorant of before - but no longer.
Do you agree now that Apple support is easily the worst in the industry?
Meanwhile on _every other common consumer platform_, the drivers, and the
default system apps and the core modules, etc., are supported for as long
as a decade or more.
Geezus, now I'm sad I'm stuck with an iPhone.
Android still fully supports all Android 10 and up phones for up to 37 core >> modules which are automatically updated over the Internet every single day. >>
Even Qualcomm firmware drivers are supported seamlessly over the Internet. >> All of this you were completely ignorant of before - but no longer.
Do you agree now that Apple support is easily the worst in the industry?
I also dislike how they don't have any kind of compatibility mode for software "made for older versions".
At the very least, they don't
outright remove it from your phone on update.
The reason I switched from Android to Apple, is because I was tired of
phones that only get 18-24 months of security updates, and sometimes
don't even get feature updates. That many iPhones kept getting updates
six or more years after launch was just too good to pass up.
I still miss a lot of features of Android, though, such as
customizable... well, anything. If we could get an 8 year (or heck, even
a five year) Android phone, I might switch back.
Now if only they'd release a phone with a physical keyboard.
With smartphone tech at a plateau - maybe it's time for a sustainable user-serviceable phone with 5 major updates & 8 years of hotfix support https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/30/23843287/fairphone-5-price-release-date-specs-features-repairable-smartphone
Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
On 9/26/23 13:56, Wally J wrote:
Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
about the camera (which I don't).
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
about the camera (which I don't).
The main point was iFixIt rated the iPhone 15 series as DO NOT PURCHASE
if repairability is a concern - where the camera is only one part.
Also, iFixIt retroactively DOWNGRADED the iPhone 14 series to the same
dismal DO NOT PURCHASE rating (if repair is of a concern to the buyer).
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Now - to the camera you speak about - it's not clear if you own the adult cognitive skills to comprehend iPhone cameras rarely make the top ten.
Are you aware of that fact?
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..
How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a 15 soon.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT >>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)... >>>IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
care about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
support..
How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a 15
soon.
Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?
On 9/26/23 13:56, Wally J wrote:
Just in today... the truth about Apple products (despite Apple's lies)...
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT
PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you care
about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing support..
On 9/26/23 16:13, Wally J wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Now - to the camera you speak about - it's not clear if you own the adult
cognitive skills to comprehend iPhone cameras rarely make the top ten.
Are you aware of that fact?
I meant more that the camera is about the only thing they actually
change.. besides removing ports and stuff
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
support..
How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a 15
soon.
Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?
I don't believe it gets hot fix patches
On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
I don't believe it gets hot fix patchesOf course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
support..
How so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15 >>>> soon.
Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple? >>
No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple has fixed.
So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.
Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT >>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about repairability)... >>>IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
care about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
support..
How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a 15
soon.
Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple?
On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple has fixed.Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from Apple? >> I don't believe it gets hot fix patchesOf course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removingHow so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15 >>>> soon.
support..
So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.
Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.
-- Cheers, Quellen
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people
pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully
patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people
pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully
patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
On 2023-09-26 16:22, Quellen wrote:
On 27 Sep 2023 at 12:12:25 AM, Alan Browne<bitbucket@blackhole.com>
wrote:
No iPhone older than the XR gets anywhere near the patches Apple hasI don't believe it gets hot fix patchesDoes that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support fromOf course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removingHow so?� My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016).� Will be replaced by a 15
support..
soon.
Apple?
fixed.
So it's good you don't care about your iPhone 7 not being safe to use.
Otherwise, if you cared about security, you wouldn't go near an iPhone 7.
-- Cheers, Quellen
"Arlen".
Your name is "Arlen".
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons
that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer
iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of people
pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are fully
patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
On 2023-09-26 15:57, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT >>>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about
repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
care about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
support..
How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a
15 soon.
Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from
Apple?
Nope...
...but show me a phone released in 2016 that does.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security problem.
On 9/27/23 05:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security problem.
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons
that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer
iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that are
fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
On 2023-09-27 07:31, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/27/23 05:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions. >>>
I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security
problem.
Forever?
Should Apple still be offering free updates to Mac OS 9? 8? System 7?
How about Microsoft? They don't have any support for anything before
Windows 10.
On 2023-09-27 07:31, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/27/23 05:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions. >>>
I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security
problem.
Forever?
Should Apple still be offering free updates to Mac OS 9? 8? System 7?
How about Microsoft? They don't have any support for anything before
Windows 10.
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons
that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer
iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that
are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions.
You know that's not tenable.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions. >>>>
I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security
problem.
Forever?
Should Apple still be offering free updates to Mac OS 9? 8? System 7?
How about Microsoft? They don't have any support for anything before
Windows 10.
If it's a big enough problem to be on the news, then yes absolutely. How
many old systems do you know of that had newsworthy issues? It's mostly relatively newer stuff.
Should Apple still be offering free updates to Mac OS 9? 8? System 7?
How about Microsoft? They don't have any support for anything before
Windows 10.
They offer you to update to W10 or 11.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Should Apple still be offering free updates to Mac OS 9? 8? System 7?
How about Microsoft? They don't have any support for anything before
Windows 10.
They offer you to update to W10 or 11.
1. My desktop was a powerful PC when built in 2009.
2. It's _still_ fully supported by Microsoft.
3. That's 14 years of full hotfix support.
By way of contrast, Apple support is the _worst_ in the industry.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions. >>>>>
I think they should at least offer free updates if there's a security
problem.
Forever?
Should Apple still be offering free updates to Mac OS 9? 8? System 7?
How about Microsoft? They don't have any support for anything before
Windows 10.
If it's a big enough problem to be on the news, then yes absolutely. How
many old systems do you know of that had newsworthy issues? It's mostly
relatively newer stuff.
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can comprehend...
*Most of Android is updated forever*
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
Carlos,
Is your phone at least Android 10?
If so, the Android operating system was updated yesterday (most likely).
*And today too.*
And your Android operating system will (most likely) be updated tomorrow.
And the day after that.
*Forever.*
If you don't believe me, read any link showing up in this search.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?va=n&hps=1&q=what+is+android+project+mainline+treble>
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can comprehend...
*Most of Android is updated forever*
You've got cite for that, have you?
Is your phone at least Android 10?
If so, the Android operating system was updated yesterday (most likely).
*And today too.*
And your Android operating system will (most likely) be updated tomorrow.
And the day after that.
*Forever.*
You've been talking to ChatGPT again, haven't you?
If you don't believe me, read any link showing up in this search.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?va=n&hps=1&q=what+is+android+project+mainline+treble>
Didn't seem to discuss anything beyond A11. I would assume that
'forever' means that if you have 10 or 11 you can also have 12, 13, 14...
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
Carlos,
Is your phone at least Android 10?
If so, the Android operating system was updated yesterday (most likely).
*And today too.*
And your Android operating system will (most likely) be updated tomorrow.
And the day after that.
*Forever.*
If you don't believe me, read any link showing up in this search.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?va=n&hps=1&q=what+is+android+project+mainline+treble>
No, because our updates come from Samsung, Motorola, etc, not Project Mainline.
On 9/27/23 22:22, Alan wrote:
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can comprehend... >>>
*Most of Android is updated forever*
You've got cite for that, have you?
The nature of open source is that if it's liked enough, then people will develop for it. Therefore, as long as Android is relevant, it will be developed, instead of the other way around.
On 9/27/23 22:22, Alan wrote:
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can comprehend... >>>
*Most of Android is updated forever*
You've got cite for that, have you?
The nature of open source is that if it's liked enough, then people will develop for it. Therefore, as long as Android is relevant, it will be developed, instead of the other way around.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
No, because our updates come from Samsung, Motorola, etc, not Project
Mainline.
Hi Carlos,
Sigh. You and the iKooks have the same thing in common... but...
I'm going to give up after this post because you can't learn anything.
I'll only ask you to ponder the answer to these questions, Carlos.
Please don't strain yourself trying to answer them.
Because it's clear you have no idea what the answer is anyway.
You'll simply sputter... "Bbbbbbbbuuuuttttt..." which helps nobody.
Q: Where do your Android Qualcomm hardware driver updates come from Carlos? Hint: Qualcomm (via Project Treble).
Q: Where do your 34 system package updates come from Carlos?
HINT: (See Frank Slootweg's Project Mainline thread renaming the topic.)
On 2023-09-27 19:01, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons
that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the newer
iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that
are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no distinctions. >>>
You know that's not tenable.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
On 2023-09-27 14:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 19:01, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons >>>>>> that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the
newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that
are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no
distinctions.
You know that's not tenable.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
That doesn't address the issue.
YOU updating all your computer is irrelevant to the issue of whether or
not it's reasonable to expect OS developers to support every OS they've made...
So I now indeed have a 'Google Play system update' from *Google*,
which is *newer* (August 1, 2023) than my 'Software update' from
*Samsung* (June 1, 2023).
On 2023-09-29 13:05, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 14:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 19:01, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons >>>>>> that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the
newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that >>>>>> are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no
distinctions.
You know that's not tenable.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
That doesn't address the issue.
YOU updating all your computer is irrelevant to the issue of whether or
not it's reasonable to expect OS developers to support every OS they've made...
I personally believe 7 years to be the minimum acceptable as OS' develop
at a pace with hardware.
While I'm quite happy to drag a computer along to 10+ years, I don't
expect the OS to be maintained as long for this h/w.
My SO's iPhone 7 got a security update in September - that's a 7 year
old phone and the iOS stopped getting general updates a little over 2
years ago. Not bad.
Since XP, Windows lifecycles have been about 10 years for every major
release, (with that of XP about 12 years). 10 years is OK in my book.
XP is still in wide use - in surprising places (and isolated from the internet). (I still run it too, but should be ending that in the coming
year or so).
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-29 13:05, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 14:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 19:01, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons >>>>>>>> that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the
newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of >>>>>>>> people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that >>>>>>>> are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no
distinctions.
You know that's not tenable.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
That doesn't address the issue.
YOU updating all your computer is irrelevant to the issue of whether or
not it's reasonable to expect OS developers to support every OS they've
made...
I personally believe 7 years to be the minimum acceptable as OS' develop
at a pace with hardware.
While I'm quite happy to drag a computer along to 10+ years, I don't
expect the OS to be maintained as long for this h/w.
Since XP, Windows lifecycles have been about 10 years for every major release, (with that of XP about 12 years). 10 years is OK in my book.
My SO's iPhone 7 got a security update in September - that's a 7 year
old phone and the iOS stopped getting general updates a little over 2
years ago. Not bad.
I've yet to be so lucky for my Android phones. No updates whatsoever
on my two Huawei phones. My current 3-year old Samsung phone has been
getting updates sofar (and Android 10->11->12->13). Fingers crossed.
Other cans of worms: 'Apps' not updated for or/and not running on
older OSs.
On 9/30/2023 5:37 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
Since XP, Windows lifecycles have been about 10 years for every major
release, (with that of XP about 12 years). 10 years is OK in my book.
XP is still in wide use - in surprising places (and isolated from the
internet). (I still run it too, but should be ending that in the
coming year or so).
I also have an old Dell laptop which is wired to my USB printer/scanner.
I never decommissioned it as it works fine as a sneakernet print server.
Like you said, it's off the grid - so no harm can be done by it existing.
I would have updated it but with only 1/2GB of RAM, it can't run Win10.
Speaking of updating one Windows version with the next Windows version, Windows support is longer lately than you might think because Microsoft
has not charged for the last few upgrades from older versions to newer
ones.
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period.
On 9/30/2023 5:37 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
Since XP, Windows lifecycles have been about 10 years for every major >>> release, (with that of XP about 12 years). 10 years is OK in my book.
XP is still in wide use - in surprising places (and isolated from the
internet). (I still run it too, but should be ending that in the
coming year or so).
I also have an old Dell laptop which is wired to my USB printer/scanner.
I never decommissioned it as it works fine as a sneakernet print server.
Like you said, it's off the grid - so no harm can be done by it existing.
I would have updated it but with only 1/2GB of RAM, it can't run Win10.
Speaking of updating one Windows version with the next Windows version, Windows support is longer lately than you might think because Microsoft
has not charged for the last few upgrades from older versions to newer
ones.
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period.
Speaking of updating one Windows version with the next Windows version,
Windows support is longer lately than you might think because Microsoft
has not charged for the last few upgrades from older versions to newer
ones.
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period.
But nobody in their right mind wants to use Windoze for 10 minutes, let
alone ten years. It's a badly made third-rate knock-off of MacOS,
always has been, always will be. :-p
I've yet to be so lucky for my Android phones. No updates whatsoever
on my two Huawei phones. My current 3-year old Samsung phone has been
getting updates sofar (and Android 10->11->12->13). Fingers crossed.
Other cans of worms: 'Apps' not updated for or/and not running on
older OSs.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:00:53 +1300, Your Name wrote:
But nobody in their right mind wants to use Windoze for 10 minutes, let
Speaking of updating one Windows version with the next Windows version,
Windows support is longer lately than you might think because Microsoft
has not charged for the last few upgrades from older versions to newer
ones.
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period. >>
alone ten years. It's a badly made third-rate knock-off of MacOS,
always has been, always will be. :-p
How would you compare full hotfix support between your macOS and Windows?
You must be aware that Windows 10 gives full hotfix support to PCs made in the mid 2000s where mine was built in 2008 and it still has full support.
Does the Sonoma macOS 14 release work on Macs from 2008 like Win10 does?
Or did the full hotfix patch support for that circa 2008 Mac die long ago?
Does the Sonoma macOS 14 release work on Macs from 2008 like Win10 does?
Or did the full hotfix patch support for that circa 2008 Mac die long ago?
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period.
Well, I'm almost full Mac except for a couple Win (XP and 10) that I run
in VM's to support legacy s/w ---and one of those is moving "online" as
soon as I get the company accountant to sign off on it.
That's as much as SIX years in the case of the Mac Pro...
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 17:09:19 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period. >>Well, I'm almost full Mac except for a couple Win (XP and 10) that I run
in VM's to support legacy s/w ---and one of those is moving "online" as
soon as I get the company accountant to sign off on it.
The main problem with choosing the Apple ecosystem is the support is so bad that it doesn't last longer than what - two years maybe? Maybe three?
Windows support is fifteen years alone on a machine that was built in 2008 like mine is - and then there's another ten years if it can move to Win11.
That's 2 or 3 years of full macOS support compared to Windows' 25 years.
On 2023-09-27 22:04, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/27/23 22:22, Alan wrote:
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can
comprehend...
*Most of Android is updated forever*
You've got cite for that, have you?
The nature of open source is that if it's liked enough, then people
will develop for it. Therefore, as long as Android is relevant, it
will be developed, instead of the other way around.
How does that address the question I asked?
Do you have a citation for the assertion that "Most of Android is
updated forever"?
There are only two possible answers:
Yes, or...
...no.
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 20:16:26 -0700, Alan wrote:
That's as much as SIX years in the case of the Mac Pro...
I'll accept six years then for the best you can possibly get for macOS full support (assuming that machine can run the latest macOS release).
Compare that six years to the twenty five years of full Windows support.
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which they
need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually bother
using.
On 2023-09-29 21:24, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/29/23 19:06, Your Name wrote:
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
Windows 8 and 8.1 were pretty terrible, and they're not the only examples.
On 9/29/23 19:06, Your Name wrote:
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
On 9/29/23 23:46, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-29 21:24, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/29/23 19:06, Your Name wrote:
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
Windows 8 and 8.1 were pretty terrible, and they're not the only
examples.
It's bearable.
Are you familiar with this saying:
"Damning with faint praise"?
:-)
On 9/29/23 23:46, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-29 21:24, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/29/23 19:06, Your Name wrote:
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
Windows 8 and 8.1 were pretty terrible, and they're not the only examples.
It's bearable.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 13:06:25 +1300, Your Name wrote:<snip>
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
Does the Sonoma macOS 14 release work on Macs from 2008 like Win10 does? >>> Or did the full hotfix patch support for that circa 2008 Mac die long ago? >>
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
OK but this thread is about "the longest hardware & software support"
so the question is how far back does macOS support go?
On 9/29/23 11:34, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 22:04, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/27/23 22:22, Alan wrote:
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can
comprehend...
*Most of Android is updated forever*
You've got cite for that, have you?
The nature of open source is that if it's liked enough, then people
will develop for it. Therefore, as long as Android is relevant, it
will be developed, instead of the other way around.
How does that address the question I asked?
Do you have a citation for the assertion that "Most of Android is
updated forever"?
There are only two possible answers:
Yes, or...
...no.
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
On 2023-09-27 14:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 19:01, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the reasons >>>>>> that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy the
newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that
are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no
distinctions.
You know that's not tenable.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
That doesn't address the issue.
YOU updating all your computer is irrelevant to the issue of whether or
not it's reasonable to expect OS developers to support every OS they've made...
...forever.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 13:06:25 +1300, Your Name wrote:
Does the Sonoma macOS 14 release work on Macs from 2008 like Win10 does? >>> Or did the full hotfix patch support for that circa 2008 Mac die long ago? >>I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
OK but this thread is about "the longest hardware & software support"
so the question is how far back does macOS support go?
Apple's full hotfix support is the shortest in the industry.
Windows' full hotfix support is the longest in the industry.
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 17:09:19 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Each of those adds another ~ten years to the already long support period. >>Well, I'm almost full Mac except for a couple Win (XP and 10) that I run
in VM's to support legacy s/w ---and one of those is moving "online" as
soon as I get the company accountant to sign off on it.
The main problem with choosing the Apple ecosystem is the support is so bad that it doesn't last longer than what - two years maybe? Maybe three?
Windows support is fifteen years alone on a machine that was built in 2008 like mine is - and then there's another ten years if it can move to Win11.
That's 2 or 3 years of full macOS support compared to Windows' 25 years.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
On 9/29/23 11:34, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 22:04, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/27/23 22:22, Alan wrote:
This is a statement only an educated intelligent adult can
comprehend...
*Most of Android is updated forever*
You've got cite for that, have you?
The nature of open source is that if it's liked enough, then people
will develop for it. Therefore, as long as Android is relevant, it
will be developed, instead of the other way around.
How does that address the question I asked?
Do you have a citation for the assertion that "Most of Android is
updated forever"?
There are only two possible answers:
Yes, or...
...no.
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
On 9/29/23 23:46, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-29 21:24, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 9/29/23 19:06, Your Name wrote:
I don't care if Microsoft patch it every second for eternity (which
they need to), Windoze is still far too much utter crap to actually
bother using.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
Windows 8 and 8.1 were pretty terrible, and they're not the only examples.
It's bearable.
On 2023-09-29 19:05, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 14:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 19:01, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:13, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-09-27 03:12, Alan wrote:
On 2023-09-26 17:42, Patrick wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 19:59:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
the security of my SO's iPhone is not a huge concern.
It's what candycanearter07 said it was.
Apple makes all iPhones older than the XR insecure for the
reasons that candycanearter07 said, which is they want you to buy >>>>>>> the newer iPhones.
You may not care Apple doesn't support an iPhone 7 but a lot of
people pay twice as much every few years for the few iPhones that >>>>>>> are fully patched.
Which was what candycanearter07 was trying to explain to you.
So you contend they should support every OS forever, then?
I do.
So should Samsung, Motorola, and everybody else, I make no
distinctions.
You know that's not tenable.
I update all my computers. Phones no, I can't.
That doesn't address the issue.
YOU updating all your computer is irrelevant to the issue of whether
or not it's reasonable to expect OS developers to support every OS
they've made...
...forever.
/I/ did not say support "every OS they've made...", like Windows 95,
W7, W10, W11.... I said that I update every computer. I can usually
update every computer to another release of the same (or other)
operating system. That is the sense of my saying I expect support for ever.
But a phone sold with Android 10 stays on Android 10, can not be updated
to 11, 12, 13... In some cases you get an update to the next version and that's it.
For some strange reason, it's not actually a problem! We, 'nerds',
are annoyed by the constant gratuitous changes, but most of the time
we can work around them, reverse them, etc..
And for the 'amateurs',
it's also no problem, because they gladly accept anything 'new' which Microsoft (and Google and Apple and ... ad infinitum) throw at them!
On 9/30/23 00:02, Alan wrote:
Are you familiar with this saying:
"Damning with faint praise"?
:-)
Yeah.
Compare that six years to the twenty five years of full Windows support.
What Windows OS has been supported for 25 years?
Windows support is fifteen years alone on a machine that was built in 2008 >> like mine is - and then there's another ten years if it can move to Win11.
Hum. Windows10 was released on 2015, so you can't have 15 years of
support on it.
It is support, yes, but a different kind.
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 21:11:59 -0700, Alan wrote:
Compare that six years to the twenty five years of full Windows support.
What Windows OS has been supported for 25 years?
I already gave you the math - my 2008 machine is still fully supported.
I'll give you the math again but I'm not going to explain it three times. Since you seem to not be able to add up numbers, here they are again.
My 2008 desktop = 15 years of full free Microsoft Windows hotfix support.
It could have been 25 years if the PC met Win11 requirements (some do).
The best your macOS PC can do is a quarter to half of that full support.
Microsoft Windows has the longest full hotfix support in the industry. Meanwhile, Apple has the shortest full hotfix support in the industry.
You're missing the point ... Windoze is such complete and utter abysmal
crap that it doesn't matter how long Microsoft do or do not support it because nobody actually wants to use it.
Last time I checked, you could still buy new parts for post-War
Citroens, but it doesn't actually make those 1945 models better cars
than a brand new Honda or whatever.
But a phone sold with Android 10 stays on Android 10, can not be updated
to 11, 12, 13... In some cases you get an update to the next version and that's it.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 13:42:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
But a phone sold with Android 10 stays on Android 10, can not be
updated to 11, 12, 13... In some cases you get an update to the next
version and that's it.
The poster Frank Slootweg said his Samsung is on Android 13 which he bought on Android 10 so what makes you think Android phones can't do what he did?
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 18:35:42 +1300, Your Name wrote:
You're missing the point ... Windoze is such complete and utter abysmal
crap that it doesn't matter how long Microsoft do or do not support it
because nobody actually wants to use it.
Apple only full supports a single release - and no other release but that.
If you can't upgrade to that single release - full support disappears.
Those are why Apple full hotfix support is the shortest in the industry.
Last time I checked, you could still buy new parts for post-War
Citroens, but it doesn't actually make those 1945 models better cars
than a brand new Honda or whatever.
Most Windows computers from more than ten years ago upgrade to the newer Windows operating system for free - which means they have full support.
In addition, multiple releases of Windows (& Android) are fully supported. Apple does not and has never fully supported more than a single release.
Those are why Apple support has always been the shortest in the industry.
On 9/30/2023 8:40 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
For some strange reason, it's not actually a problem! We, 'nerds',
You a nerd? I knew it!
are annoyed by the constant gratuitous changes, but most of the time
we can work around them, reverse them, etc..
And for the 'amateurs',
That's me...
it's also no problem, because they gladly accept anything 'new' which Microsoft (and Google and Apple and ... ad infinitum) throw at them!
Probably the most annoying thing for me is the W11 ads (currently MS365
and PC Game Pass in Settings>Accounts and Settings>Home). Also I have
166 points in Rewards (whatever that is) in Settings>Accounts. But then
I'm easily annoyed, huh...
But...no ads on my Chromebook (OS). Who woulda thought...
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little
experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its
defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little
experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its
defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the >> technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists,
secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the >>> technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists,
secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
math, and orbital
mechanics.
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
On 2023-09-30 13:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the >>>> technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
So AutoCad for Mac... ...or SolidWorks in a VM...
math, and orbital
mechanics.
"Mathematica is available on Windows, macOS, Linux & Cloud."
<https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/>
What software do you use for orbital mechanics?
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
I get it:
You sneer at people who don't do what you do.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 9/30/2023 8:40 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
And for the 'amateurs',
That's me...
Pull the other on! Considering the amout of tinkering you do with
your devices, you're no 'amateur' by a long shot.
But if you prefer 'enthusiast' instead of 'nerd', that's fine by me!
:-)
it's also no problem, because they gladly accept anything 'new'
which Microsoft (and Google and Apple and ... ad infinitum) throw
at them!
Probably the most annoying thing for me is the W11 ads (currently
MS365 and PC Game Pass in Settings>Accounts and Settings>Home).
Also I have 166 points in Rewards (whatever that is) in
Settings>Accounts. But then I'm easily annoyed, huh...
I get no ads on my Windows 10 laptop. During installation I disabled
all setting which even hinted at ads, snooping, etc.. Also I use a
local account, not a Microsoft Account (MSA). Do you use a MSA when
logging in? If so, that might be (part of) the problem.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the >>> technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists,
secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD, math, and orbital mechanics. The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
On 2023-09-30 13:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the >>>> technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
So AutoCad for Mac... ...or SolidWorks in a VM...
math, and orbital
mechanics.
"Mathematica is available on Windows, macOS, Linux & Cloud."
<https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/>
What software do you use for orbital mechanics?
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
I get it:
You sneer at people who don't do what you do.
On 2023-09-30 14:54, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 13:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it. >>>>>>>
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the
technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration >>>>> isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
So AutoCad for Mac... ...or SolidWorks in a VM...
math, and orbital
mechanics.
"Mathematica is available on Windows, macOS, Linux & Cloud."
<https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/>
What software do you use for orbital mechanics?
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
I get it:
You sneer at people who don't do what you do.
Satellite Tool Kit from AGI
And it doesn’t matter what software you find for Mac. We use what we have a
(very expensive) license for and has capabilities that we need. Just
because you find something on the internet doesn’t mean it can do what is >> required.
The point is there is such a low amount of Mac users that mainstream
technical software companies don’t bother making their software for that >> environment. And VM is not an alternative because it doesn’t work right.
Funny that AGI disagrees:
'You can run STK on a MAC using a Windows emulator such as Parallels or CrossOver.'
<https://analyticalgraphics.my.site.com/faqs/articles/Knowledge/Is-STK-supported-on-the-MAC>
But I'm sure you know better!
:-)
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 13:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it. >>>>>>
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the
technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration >>>> isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
So AutoCad for Mac... ...or SolidWorks in a VM...
math, and orbital
mechanics.
"Mathematica is available on Windows, macOS, Linux & Cloud."
<https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/>
What software do you use for orbital mechanics?
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
I get it:
You sneer at people who don't do what you do.
Satellite Tool Kit from AGI
And it doesn’t matter what software you find for Mac. We use what we have a (very expensive) license for and has capabilities that we need. Just
because you find something on the internet doesn’t mean it can do what is required.
The point is there is such a low amount of Mac users that mainstream technical software companies don’t bother making their software for that environment. And VM is not an alternative because it doesn’t work right.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 13:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it. >>>>>>
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the
technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration >>>> isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
So AutoCad for Mac... ...or SolidWorks in a VM...
math, and orbital
mechanics.
"Mathematica is available on Windows, macOS, Linux & Cloud."
<https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/>
What software do you use for orbital mechanics?
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
I get it:
You sneer at people who don't do what you do.
Satellite Tool Kit from AGI
And it doesn’t matter what software you find for Mac. We use what we have a (very expensive) license for and has capabilities that we need. Just
because you find something on the internet doesn’t mean it can do what is required.
The point is there is such a low amount of Mac users that mainstream technical software companies don’t bother making their software for that environment. And VM is not an alternative because it doesn’t work right.
It’s been fully tested by the IT department and Mac users. But then again, there are no Mac users who can use the tools we need since they’re writing emails and drawing pretty pictures.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 14:54, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:Funny that AGI disagrees:
On 2023-09-30 13:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it. >>>>>>>>
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X >>>>>>>> (whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the
technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>>>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration >>>>>> isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD
So AutoCad for Mac... ...or SolidWorks in a VM...
math, and orbital
mechanics.
"Mathematica is available on Windows, macOS, Linux & Cloud."
<https://www.wolfram.com/mathematica/>
What software do you use for orbital mechanics?
The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
I get it:
You sneer at people who don't do what you do.
Satellite Tool Kit from AGI
And it doesn’t matter what software you find for Mac. We use what we have a
(very expensive) license for and has capabilities that we need. Just
because you find something on the internet doesn’t mean it can do what is >>> required.
The point is there is such a low amount of Mac users that mainstream
technical software companies don’t bother making their software for that >>> environment. And VM is not an alternative because it doesn’t work right. >>
'You can run STK on a MAC using a Windows emulator such as Parallels or
CrossOver.'
<https://analyticalgraphics.my.site.com/faqs/articles/Knowledge/Is-STK-supported-on-the-MAC>
But I'm sure you know better!
:-)
As I tried to explain to you earlier, it doesn’t matter what you read on the internet. Practical experience says otherwise. You may be able to “run”
STK on a virtual machine, but that doesn’t mean you can “RUN” STK on a virtual machine.
Maybe you can start the program and run some minor scenarios, but STK has numerous extra modules which enable it to do far more things than the barebones version allows. Running in a virtual machine slows down the computer to an unusable status and even some modules won’t work.
Maybe you should talk to the STK trainer and the aerospace engineers to
find out the truth. Personally I use STK with scripts so I’m barely proficient myself.
The poster Frank Slootweg said his Samsung is on Android 13 which he bought >> on Android 10 so what makes you think Android phones can't do what he did?
Some models can do that, not all of them.
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
IME, with some effort, all Windows versions - from XP through 11 - can
be beaten into submission. I've done it with XP, Vista, 8.1 and now 11
(and a bit for SWMBO's 10 system).
For some strange reason, it's not actually a problem! We, 'nerds', are annoyed by the constant gratuitous changes, but most of the time we can
work around them, reverse them, etc.. And for the 'amateurs', it's also
no problem, because they gladly accept anything 'new' which Microsoft
(and Google and Apple and ... ad infinitum) throw at them!
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
Just as with programming languages, I have used so many operating systems, that the only thing I really care about now are the apps that do things.
For "doing things", Linux is one of the best operating systems out there. Windows isn't too far behind Linux in its capability to do what you need.
The Apple operating systems are always lagging in what they can do.
For example, you can't even torrent or use the tor browser on iOS.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
I get no ads on my Windows 10 laptop. During installation I disabled
all setting which even hinted at ads, snooping, etc.. Also I use a local account, not a Microsoft Account (MSA). Do you use a MSA when logging
in? If so, that might be (part of) the problem.
But...no ads on my Chromebook (OS). Who woulda thought...
Hope our 'resident' Google-hater doesn't read that. We wouldn't want
to ruin his day, now would we!? :-)
As I tried to explain to you earlier, it doesnt matter what you read on
the internet. Practical experience says otherwise. You may be able to run STK on a virtual machine, but that doesnt mean you can RUN STK on a virtual machine.
Thanks. I do tinker with my toys but I'm definitely not technically
savvy as some are here. I worked in military electronics in the 60's (Motorola Western Military Division in Scottsdale AZ USA) but I've not
kept up. If I ever sound technical here it's because of good old
Google...
But if you prefer 'enthusiast' instead of 'nerd', that's fine by me!
:-)
I think the last time we discussed this we used the word 'geek'... ;)
Yes I use a MSA.
But I'm sneaky as I use a fake name. And I'll bet you
can even guess its initials.
As I recall I tried a local account some years back but missed being
able to use some of MS's services. They were so important to me that I
now can't recall which ones they were...
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
But still, officially, there are no updates. Nothing comes through the official update channels.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers. All the >>> technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists,
secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD, math, and orbital mechanics. The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
Which is sort of the point.
When the OEM stops supporting something, it is unsupported.
That volunteers do it out of interest is little different than the clubs
that keep old cars running.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:30:38 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
Which is sort of the point.
Except that he's wrong.
People like you and people like him don't know what they're talking about.
He's confused "Google Play System updates" with "Google Play Store updates."
Blame Google naming conventions for his confusion.
They're two completely separate things.
The Google Play system updates happen monthly without any user interaction. They've been happening ~monthly on all Android devices since Sept. 3, 2019.
It's mainly how Android is updated ~monthly for security & bug issues.
When the OEM stops supporting something, it is unsupported.
What makes you think (or wish?) that Google stopped supporting Android?
That volunteers do it out of interest is little different than the clubs
that keep old cars running.
Google supports all Android 10+ phones with ~monthly updates.
Google also (separately) donates all those ~monthly updates to AOSP.
You can't separate the two actions in your mind?
Why not?
Is it that you wish it wasn't true?
On 2023-09-26 18:57, Patrick wrote:oooooppppssss:--------------- Sept 11 2023 ------------------------
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 18:21:10 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Note the news today that not only the latest iPhones received a DO NOT >>>>> PURCHASE score from iFixIt (due to Apple's lies about
repairability)...
IMO there's not much (real) point to buying new iPhones unless you
care about the camera (which I don't).
Of course they're tying to smoke out the old phones by removing
support..
How so? My SO's iPhone 7 works fine (2016). Will be replaced by a
15 soon.
Does that iPhone 7 still get full bug fix hot fix patch support from
Apple?
It was updated to iOS 15.7.9 (Sept 11 2013) - which was an "Apple
security update". I don't believe it gets hot fix patches - and not too worried about that though some trolls will go full keyboard abuse on it.
Per Apple:
Available for: iPhone 6s (all models), iPhone 7 (all models), iPhone SE
(1st generation), iPad Air 2, iPad mini (4th generation), and iPod touch
(7th generation)
Impact: Processing a maliciously crafted image may lead to arbitrary
code execution. Apple is aware of a report that this issue may have been actively exploited.
Description: A buffer overflow issue was addressed with improved memory handling.
CVE-2023-41064: The Citizen Lab at The University of Torontoʼs Munk School
When the OEM stops supporting something, it is unsupported.
What makes you think (or wish?) that Google stopped supporting Android?
I see your point in that Google have an overall "Android" to support
plus the builds for Google's own phones.
How many versions back does Google issue updates to Android such that
users with a phone get Android updated on their phone that is x years old?
That volunteers do it out of interest is little different than the clubs >>> that keep old cars running.
Google supports all Android 10+ phones with ~monthly updates.
Google also (separately) donates all those ~monthly updates to AOSP.
Android 10 is 4 years old. So this is not exactly a loud horn you're blasting.
The most recent update applicable to iPhone 7 (2016) was iOS 15.7.9
(Sept 11 2023). In case that's a math issue for you, that's 7 years.
You can't separate the two actions in your mind?
Why not?
Separate enough - but I admit that I'm not especially concerned with
Android.
Is it that you wish it wasn't true?
Not at all. Competition is good for everyone.
On 2023-09-30 22:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers.
All the
technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration
isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD, math, and orbital
mechanics. The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
You are looking at it wrong.
Your company needs doing graphics, arts and administration, and pays for
it being done. And the people that do these jobs chooses certain tools because they work better than other tools for what they do.
It is fine and good.
On 2023-10-01 13:17, Carlos E. R. wrote:Clarification: He NEEDS to sneer.
On 2023-09-30 22:43, badgolferman wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-09-30 12:56, badgolferman wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> >>>>>> wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it. >>>>>>
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one >>>>>> comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have
little
experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know >>>>>> its
defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can >>>>>> help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Where I work people can choose between Macs and Windows computers.
All the
technical people choose Windows and all the managers, graphic artists, >>>>> secretaries, etc. choose Macs.
In other words the real work is done by Windows computers.
Riiiiiiiight.
What do the technical people DO?
And how is it you think that managing, graphic arts and administration >>>> isn't "real work"?
I work in aerospace industry. We do a lot of CAD, math, and orbital
mechanics. The others do a lot of emails, outreach, drawing pretty
pictures.
You are looking at it wrong.
Your company needs doing graphics, arts and administration, and pays
for it being done. And the people that do these jobs chooses certain
tools because they work better than other tools for what they do.
It is fine and good.
Precisely...
...but "badgolferman" WANTS to sneer.
On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:12:42 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
When the OEM stops supporting something, it is unsupported.
What makes you think (or wish?) that Google stopped supporting Android?
I see your point in that Google have an overall "Android" to support
plus the builds for Google's own phones.
How many versions back does Google issue updates to Android such that
users with a phone get Android updated on their phone that is x years old?
Every Android 10+ is being updated ~monthly by Google if it's on the net.
The number of updated Android modules depends on the version of Android.
They are security & functional updates to fundamental Android components.
So far every release of Android has added about a half dozen more modules.
That volunteers do it out of interest is little different than the clubs >>>> that keep old cars running.
Google supports all Android 10+ phones with ~monthly updates.
Google also (separately) donates all those ~monthly updates to AOSP.
Android 10 is 4 years old. So this is not exactly a loud horn you're
blasting.
I'm not "blasting a loud horn" since it's only you that didn't know this started with Android 10. I knew it before Android 10 shipped. Long ago.
The most recent update applicable to iPhone 7 (2016) was iOS 15.7.9
(Sept 11 2023). In case that's a math issue for you, that's 7 years.
The iPhone 7 has been off full support for quite some time now, so you can count years but you may as well count the years since Steve Jobs died.
Your count of years that the iPhone 7 has not been supported means nothing. All Android phones that run Android 10 or later have been updated ~monthly.
People don't realize it because it's all done
You can't separate the two actions in your mind?
Why not?
Separate enough - but I admit that I'm not especially concerned with
Android.
No issue here as long as you realize Android support & AOSP are different.
Is it that you wish it wasn't true?
Not at all. Competition is good for everyone.
No issue with that.
If the operating systems weren't different, they'd be the same.
Android after version 10 in 2019 has been updated roughly about ~monthly.
iOS is updated when it needs to be updated which is roughly ~monthly too.
Pretty much the main difference is every Android phone over Android 10
is updated while only the iOS phones running iOS 17 get full updates.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
I'm the one who introduced Project Mainline (since renamed) to this ng.
Hence...
I have to ask where you can reference that information, other than you can turn off Project Mainline (aka "Google Play system updates") if you want.
As far as I know, most of Android is updated asynchronously, about once a month (sometimes once every 2 months) forever for all Android 10+ devices.
Unless you turn it off (which almost nobody would do).
Or, unless you never reboot the phone (again, which doesn't happen).
However...
I think I know where you're confused - but first - can you cite even a
single reference which backs up your (very interesting) point of view?
Please...
Where did you get the idea that you can control the updates to these 37
core modules which form the bulk of what we refer to as the Android OS?
Hope our 'resident' Google-hater doesn't read that. We wouldn't want
to ruin his day, now would we!? :-)
Then I can see why you've now snipped everything you said, can't I?
:-)
Also I have 166 points in Rewards (whatever that is) in Settings>Accounts. But then
I'm easily annoyed, huh...
But...no ads on my Chromebook (OS). Who woulda thought...
Thanks. I do tinker with my toys but I'm definitely not technically
savvy as some are here. I worked in military electronics in the 60's (Motorola Western Military Division in Scottsdale AZ USA) but I've not
kept up. If I ever sound technical here it's because of good old
Google...
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
Just as with programming languages, I have used so many operating systems, that the only thing I really care about now are the apps that do things.
For "doing things", Linux is one of the best operating systems out there. Windows isn't too far behind Linux in its capability to do what you need.
As for Windows 11, my 2008 desktop says it can't upgrade to it but I've written many threads on the Windows newsgroup asking what's in the latest Windows releases that you can't do with all the earlier ones and the answer almost always is that there isn't anything in Windows 11 that you can't do
in Windows 10 - which has always been the case with Windows capabilities.
The reason is simple.
Most of the functionality in Windows (or Android) isn't coming from the
maker of the operating system - the functionality comes from developers.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote
Frank is completely accurate in the above assessment that there are fundamentally two kinds of people with respect to operating systems.
1. People like Your Name who can't handle anything changing in the OS
2. People like Frank who can handle anything the OS throws at him
I'm in the latter group also in that I can even handle the crappy iOS.
I started in the sixties on IBM mainframes, and then in the 70s and 80s
with the DEC PDP 11 systems and VAX and building my own 68701 boards.
An operating system, to me, is just a framework for me to add my own menus, and my own shortcuts and my own apps and my own setup - so I'm with Frank.
a. There are peopel who let the operating system rule them, and,
b. There are others who simply learn how to control the operating system.
The only operating system that prevents you from doing what you need to do
is iOS as even macOS allows you to do simple things like torrent & Tor browsers and graphical wi-fi debugging and system wide firewalls, etc.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 9/30/23 14:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hope our 'resident' Google-hater doesn't read that. We wouldn't want >>> to ruin his day, now would we!? :-)
Do we have one?
Would I lie to 'you'!?
On 9/30/23 09:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Is there any way to disable the ads?
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 9/30/23 09:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little
experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its
defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Is there any way to disable the ads?
What ads!? :-) (see my earlier response to AJL).
But yes, under Settings -> Privacy & security, there are umpteen
settings. If you count per-app and per-device settings, there are
hundreds of them! 'Enjoy'!
On 9/30/23 14:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hope our 'resident' Google-hater doesn't read that. We wouldn't want
to ruin his day, now would we!? :-)
Do we have one?
On 10/2/23 10:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 9/30/23 14:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Hope our 'resident' Google-hater doesn't read that. We wouldn't want >>> to ruin his day, now would we!? :-)
Do we have one?
Would I lie to 'you'!?
I wasn't implying that! I was just asking who it was.
On 10/2/23 10:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 9/30/23 09:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Is there any way to disable the ads?
What ads!? :-) (see my earlier response to AJL).
But yes, under Settings -> Privacy & security, there are umpteen
settings. If you count per-app and per-device settings, there are
hundreds of them! 'Enjoy'!
I'm guessing they also conveniently "forget" your options so you have to
go through and enable everything again.
On 10/2/23 10:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 9/30/23 09:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:24:17 -0500, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:
I'd say only Windows 11 is actually bad enough I would not use it.
You are of course entitled to that opinion, but I'd like to make one
comment: in my experience, those who think operating system X
(whatever X is) is so bad they won't use it are those who have little >>> experience with it, don't know what its options are and only know its >>> defaults, and have never looked at the third party utilities that can
help them configure it the way they would like it.
Windows 11 is fine for me.
Is there any way to disable the ads?
What ads!? :-) (see my earlier response to AJL).
But yes, under Settings -> Privacy & security, there are umpteen settings. If you count per-app and per-device settings, there are
hundreds of them! 'Enjoy'!
I'm guessing they also conveniently "forget" your options so you have to
go through and enable everything again.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 12:59:22 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Project Treble/Mainline let the users create their own updates.
Therefore, it's updated "forever" as long as people keep interest. Even
if Google stops officially supporting it.
But still, officially, there are no updates. Nothing comes through the
official update channels.
Is your Android phone on Android 10 or newer?
Then it has been constantly updated almost monthly for years.
And it will continue to be constantly updated almost monthly for years.
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft
Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft
Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
I use Linux.
Most of the functionality in Windows (or Android) isn't coming from the
maker of the operating system - the functionality comes from developers.
And Win 11 is Win 10 with extra paint. And ads.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Most of the functionality in Windows (or Android) isn't coming from the
maker of the operating system - the functionality comes from developers.
And Win 11 is Win 10 with extra paint. And ads.
My wife unthinkingly upgraded her PC to Windows 11 where I don't use hers often but I haven't seen any ads on hers. Are you sure Win 11 has ads?
To be clear, I'm sure YouTube has ads (even though I never see them).
And I'm sure web pages you go to will show ads (again, I never see them).
But it seems you're claiming the operating system is popping up ads.
Under what circumstances does Windows 11 show non-app advertisements?
And recently ham radio.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
And recently ham radio.
There are some neat ham radio learners' apps on the iPad if you're interested. See my ham radio folder, for example, in this image.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yN7MKm7w/update06.jpg> Finish Setting Up iPad
I found the format on the tablet easier to study for the test.
<https://i.postimg.cc/9XtgRz0y/mothership01.jpg> Apple forces verification
the only super nerdy stuff I've done is run Linux and programming.
And recently ham radio.
On 10/1/2023 3:31 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
the only super nerdy stuff I've done is run Linux and programming.
And recently ham radio.
I got my ham ticket in 57. I'm still licensed but haven't been active in years (HOA antenna rules). I worked mostly CW then but that's pretty
much dead now as are most of the hams who used to use it. As a teenager
I impressed folks with my homebrew 50W car mobile (AM) when the
sun spots were in by chatting with hams in Europe (on 10 meters from
Phoenix AZ-US). That was pre-Internet of course. That wouldn't impress
many these days when they can do that from their phones...
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
I use Linux.
Look at my other messages. I usually snip the message so it only has the
part I'm responding to if it's a long message/has multiple indent levels.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Look at my other messages. I usually snip the message so it only has the
part I'm responding to if it's a long message/has multiple indent levels.
Have you noticed 2 _adult_ things in Usenet yet (when iKooks are involved)?
1. These iKooks never add value - they only contest value, and,
2. They whine about snipping (when it's the correct & proper netiquette).
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft
Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since
the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability)
systems and all that jazz.
[1] And I've been using (16-bit) minicomputers *before* the PDP-11, so
take *that* one! :-)
On 10/3/23 08:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft >>> Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Curious about how bad W11 actually is.
[...]Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability) systems and all that jazz.
Neat! What distro do you use?
Curious about how bad W11 actually is.
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad.
Like the earlier ones,
it can be beaten into submission.
The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
[...]Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since >>> the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability)
systems and all that jazz.
Neat! What distro do you use?
Strictly speaking Cygwin is my 'distro'. But it's a Linux-like
environment for/on/under/<whatever> Windows, so that's why I said 'GNU'
and not 'Linux', because it does not have a Linux-kernel, but emulates section 2 and 3 stuff.
I've been using it for well over two decades. If I would have started recently, I would probably be using WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) instead.
<http://cygwin.com/>
I did everything you did - because we all did what you did - given we all started with 'nix well before they had packaged up a "Linux" distro for us.
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
[...]Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since >>> the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability)
systems and all that jazz.
Neat! What distro do you use?
Strictly speaking Cygwin is my 'distro'. But it's a Linux-like
environment for/on/under/<whatever> Windows, so that's why I said 'GNU'
and not 'Linux', because it does not have a Linux-kernel, but emulates section 2 and 3 stuff.
I've been using it for well over two decades. If I would have started recently, I would probably be using WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) instead.
<http://cygwin.com/>
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux. The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
So we (YTIW) use the OS which accomodates the software we need. We
don't run an OS just for the heck of it, not even if we like the 'small
is beautiful' paradigm of UNIX/Linux.
And that's why I *also* use the Linux-like Cygwin environment on
Windows, so I have what - for *me* - is the best of both worlds.
For example I compose this response in vim and will post it with tin,
which is a newsreader of Unix heritage (but built on tons of platforms).
See my 'User-Agent:' header and note the '(UNIX)' part.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux. The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
So we (YTIW) use the OS which accomodates the software we need. We
don't run an OS just for the heck of it, not even if we like the 'small
is beautiful' paradigm of UNIX/Linux.
And that's why I *also* use the Linux-like Cygwin environment on
Windows, so I have what - for *me* - is the best of both worlds.
For example I compose this response in vim and will post it with tin, which is a newsreader of Unix heritage (but built on tons of platforms).
See my 'User-Agent:' header and note the '(UNIX)' part.
[Cygwin details deleted.]
Fair enough. I'm lucky enough to not need any Windows-exclusive
applications at the current moment. I also have almost no experience
with either Cygwin or WSL.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux. The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
Like Frank, I've been using the 'nix operating systems since the days of the DEC machines when I went to graduate school near Boston Massachusetts.
Then we moved to various Masscomp and SunOS solutions (later Solaris), well before the Linux distros started making their rounds in the community.
We all used Cygwin but I didn't like the restrictions which is why I had
been running dual-boot Ubuntu/Windows for years, where the beauty of that
(if you knew how to turn off the hibernation and fastboot switches) was you could access the file system of all three operating systems simultaneously.
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg> itunes removes functionality
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg> iOS "Files" does nothing useful
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg> Android is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMk7tvZW/files04.jpg> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqg61Rh8/files05.jpg> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jhmy9KH7/files06.jpg> Ubuntu uses iFuse for its magic
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjK4nHwf/files07.jpg> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xcCBngd/files08.jpg> iOS is just a dumb brick on Win
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MGdc2s7/files10.jpg> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/cChf8mx1/files11.jpg> iOS requires hacks just to copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/pVJf72fN/files12.jpg> iOS hacks very often will fail
<https://i.postimg.cc/g269S8rT/files13.jpg> How does macOS work with iOS?
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2x0f9Js/files14.jpg> Simultaneous linux, win10 & iOS
That's why I think it's revealing that the iKooks think the only part of a Usenet news message is the meaningless header wrapping paper & not the gift of the value of the body of the intelligence inherent in the message body.
On 10/1/2023 3:31 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
the only super nerdy stuff I've done is run Linux and programming.
And recently ham radio.
I got my ham ticket in 57. I'm still licensed but haven't been active in years (HOA antenna rules). I worked mostly CW then but that's pretty
much dead now as are most of the hams who used to use it. As a teenager
I impressed folks with my homebrew 50W car mobile (AM) when the
sun spots were in by chatting with hams in Europe (on 10 meters from
Phoenix AZ-US). That was pre-Internet of course. That wouldn't impress
many these days when they can do that from their phones...
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft
Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since
the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability)
systems and all that jazz.
[1] And I've been using (16-bit) minicomputers *before* the PDP-11, so
take *that* one! :-)
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Fair enough. I'm lucky enough to not need any Windows-exclusive
applications at the current moment. I also have almost no experience
with either Cygwin or WSL.
Wait until you need sed, awk, grep & comm.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Most of the functionality in Windows (or Android) isn't coming from the
maker of the operating system - the functionality comes from developers.
And Win 11 is Win 10 with extra paint. And ads.
My wife unthinkingly upgraded her PC to Windows 11 where I don't use hers often but I haven't seen any ads on hers. Are you sure Win 11 has ads?
To be clear, I'm sure YouTube has ads (even though I never see them).
And I'm sure web pages you go to will show ads (again, I never see them).
But it seems you're claiming the operating system is popping up ads.
Under what circumstances does Windows 11 show non-app advertisements?
On another person using Windows (unknown version, I did not check) I see "things" pop up from the bottom-right which if not adverts are
borderline and which have to be closed. I did not pay attention, so I
can't cite what they said.
And no, she is not using a M$ account.
Is your Android phone on Android 10 or newer?
Then it has been constantly updated almost monthly for years.
And it will continue to be constantly updated almost monthly for years.
It is still Android 12, not 13. So, not fully updated.
Just parts of it.
Unknown parts.
Have you noticed 2 _adult_ things in Usenet yet (when iKooks are involved)? >>
1. These iKooks never add value - they only contest value, and,
2. They whine about snipping (when it's the correct & proper netiquette).
It's proper netiquette? I was just removing it because the extra text bothered me.
Point is, my SO's 7 year old iPhone received a security update ~7 years
after the phone was put into the market.
Pretty much the main difference is every Android phone over Android 10
is updated while only the iOS phones running iOS 17 get full updates.
Not at all, my iPhone 11 gets regular updates as the OS progresses.
Some features are not available as the h/w doesn't support them, but not
much I can do about that.
Where did you get the idea that you can control the updates to these 37
core modules which form the bulk of what we refer to as the Android OS?
Mostly experience from other open source projects
On 10/3/23 16:03, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On another person using Windows (unknown version, I did not check) I
see "things" pop up from the bottom-right which if not adverts are
borderline and which have to be closed. I did not pay attention, so I
can't cite what they said.
And no, she is not using a M$ account.
Didn't they add a permanent "Contacts" button in the taskbar? Or am I remembering wrong?
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 23:30:56 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Is your Android phone on Android 10 or newer?
Then it has been constantly updated almost monthly for years.
And it will continue to be constantly updated almost monthly for years.
It is still Android 12, not 13. So, not fully updated.
It's updated every month just like every Android phone is monthly updated. It's just done so seamlessly that you don't notice the updates happening.
Even so, there's nothing in Android 13 that you need that you can't do with Android 12 where what matters more are the monthly security updates which happen every week but which roll out to your phone only about once a month.
These security updates via the Google Play system update mechanism are happening right now to your phone but it's seamless so you don't notice.
In fact plenty of people are complaining that it's too seamless because
they don't know what security updates are constantly being applied monthly.
Some are even digging into the donated AOSP source code to find that out. https://www.esper.io/blog/building-a-google-play-system-update-changelog
Just parts of it.
Unknown parts.
I hear you. In the past, nobody knew what was in those monthly updates. https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html
Even though all Androids since Android 10 have had their security updated monthly, Google only started listing what those updates were last year. https://support.google.com/product-documentation/answer/11412553
This seamless monthly security update to the billions of Android phones on the Internet is similar to how Microsoft does their periodic updates too. https://9to5google.com/2022/01/10/whats-new-android-google-play-system-updates/
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones, >>> it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux. The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
So we (YTIW) use the OS which accomodates the software we need. We
don't run an OS just for the heck of it, not even if we like the 'small
is beautiful' paradigm of UNIX/Linux.
And that's why I *also* use the Linux-like Cygwin environment on
Windows, so I have what - for *me* - is the best of both worlds.
For example I compose this response in vim and will post it with tin, which is a newsreader of Unix heritage (but built on tons of platforms).
See my 'User-Agent:' header and note the '(UNIX)' part.
[Cygwin details deleted.]
On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 17:47:37 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Point is, my SO's 7 year old iPhone received a security update ~7 years
after the phone was put into the market.
No issue here as long as you realize the same thing happens with all operating systems, where Windows has the longest software support overall.
No quibble with you on the regular iPhone 11 updates since both iOS and Android have their own robust update mechanisms for recently built phones.
Neither is better overall. They're completely different though.
If you don't know the differences, you can't say much more until you do.
Apple partially updates prior releases but only fully updates one release.
Google partially updates prior releases where the phone manufacturer
handles the full updates which almost always span multiple releases.
Which is best can't be discussed until you know how they're different.
The _reason_ the iKooks hate when you snip is that's _their_ way of
changing the subject of a thread which tells the truth about Apple.
This is the main rule of all the uneducated low-IQ ignorant iKooks:
*Change the subject* *Fast!* *Blame everyone but Apple!*
They _hate_ every truth about Apple being discussed so they deflect.
And they blame you (or me) for telling the truth about Apple products.
Like Apple, they blame everyone but Apple for flaws in Apple products.
Just watch.
On 2023-10-03 04:11, Wally J wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Most of the functionality in Windows (or Android) isn't coming from the >>> maker of the operating system - the functionality comes from developers. >>And Win 11 is Win 10 with extra paint. And ads.
My wife unthinkingly upgraded her PC to Windows 11 where I don't use hers often but I haven't seen any ads on hers. Are you sure Win 11 has ads?
To be clear, I'm sure YouTube has ads (even though I never see them).
And I'm sure web pages you go to will show ads (again, I never see them).
But it seems you're claiming the operating system is popping up ads.
Under what circumstances does Windows 11 show non-app advertisements?
On another person using Windows (unknown version, I did not check) I see "things" pop up from the bottom-right which if not adverts are
borderline and which have to be closed. I did not pay attention, so I
can't cite what they said.
And no, she is not using a M$ account.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 08:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft >> >>> Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >> >>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off. >> >>I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Curious about how bad W11 actually is.
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux.
The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
On 2023-10-03 21:23, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones, >>> it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for >>> the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux. The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
I wouldn't say that. Depends on what software you need. Certainly,
commercial software, or software provided together with hardware, may
not be present.
So for years I needed Windows to update my TomTom, but no longer as the current incumbent updates standalone via wifi.
Another one is purchased ebooks for my Kobo, the app is Windows only. Fortunately, books and updates happen over WiFi, but not all: some need
the Adobe ADE.
Those are the only two software pieces I can't do on Linux. My camera
also has Windows only software, but I don't use it. I can stay months
without booting Windows.
So we (YTIW) use the OS which accomodates the software we need. We
don't run an OS just for the heck of it, not even if we like the 'small
is beautiful' paradigm of UNIX/Linux.
And that's why I *also* use the Linux-like Cygwin environment on Windows, so I have what - for *me* - is the best of both worlds.
For example I compose this response in vim and will post it with tin, which is a newsreader of Unix heritage (but built on tons of platforms). See my 'User-Agent:' header and note the '(UNIX)' part.
[Cygwin details deleted.]
On 2023-10-03 09:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft >>> Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off.
I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability) systems and all that jazz.
[1] And I've been using (16-bit) minicomputers *before* the PDP-11, so
take *that* one! :-)
hp-2100? (Evolved to the hp-1000).
We had pretty much, exactly, this setup when I began working for a co...:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d3jhkjcgsv4w04ycf3pj4/ESO_Hewlett_Packard_2116_minicomputer.jpg?rlkey=b1zdy3vfrnt1f4ivoh52rc9g0
We also had an unusual PDP-11 version - said to be one of only 4 of its
kind.
On 3 Oct 2023 18:26:27 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 08:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft >>>>>> Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >>>>>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off. >>>>>I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Curious about how bad W11 actually is.
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
You probably know it, but for those who don't, I strongly agree with
all the above. Most people who looked at my computer would probably
not even realize it was Windows 11.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Where did you get the idea that you can control the updates to these 37
core modules which form the bulk of what we refer to as the Android OS?
Mostly experience from other open source projects
I think the fact Google donates the Mainline (aka "Google Play system update") security updates to the AOSP is a separate issue given I do not think it's possible to "control" which Mainline updates you get.
*Reboot Chronicles: An in-depth look at Android Mainline updates*
<https://www.intuneirl.com/why-your-android-device-reboots/>
That means Android security updates happen seamlessly every month, forever. As well it should be.
Side note. I recently saw some video (YouTube) where it was stated you
could get apps to strip Windows of a lot of its bloat ware. It would
present a manifest of all the bloat, and you would select what to keep.
The rest would be removed.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
[...]
Side note. I recently saw some video (YouTube) where it was stated you
could get apps to strip Windows of a lot of its bloat ware. It would
present a manifest of all the bloat, and you would select what to keep.
The rest would be removed.
What would be the fun in doing *that*!? That would leave us with only/mostly Windows itself. Now we can at least enjoy the bloat!
:-) <-- for the HI.
On 3 Oct 2023 19:23:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones, >>>> it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for >>>> the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux.
I've probably said it here before, but I prefer to use Windows, not
because I think it's better than the alternatives (I don't have enough experience with the alternatives to be able to compare them), but
primarily because I know it well, and I'm not interested in taking the
time and making the effort to learn something new, whether Linux,
Macintosh, or anything else. I don't think Windows is perfect, and if
I were in charge of Microsoft, I would make many what I think would be improvements, but even as it is, it suits my needs just fine.
The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
Yes, and that's another reason for me to stay with Windows.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-03 09:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft >>>>> Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a Microsoft >>>>> Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off. >>>>I use Linux.
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since >>> the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability)
systems and all that jazz.
[1] And I've been using (16-bit) minicomputers *before* the PDP-11, so
take *that* one! :-)
hp-2100? (Evolved to the hp-1000).
HP 2100A? *That* new-fangled stuff!? :-)
No, the earlier and first one, the HP 2116A.
We had pretty much, exactly, this setup when I began working for a co...:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d3jhkjcgsv4w04ycf3pj4/ESO_Hewlett_Packard_2116_minicomputer.jpg?rlkey=b1zdy3vfrnt1f4ivoh52rc9g0
Don't know why the URL and filename says "2116", because what is shown
is a 2100 (has pushbutton switches with lights, instead of tumbler
switches).
2100A
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=98>
2116 (picture is of 2116B)
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=95>
Also the disk drive is much newer and HP made, probably a 7900A. 5MB.
7900A
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=275>
I started with drum drives starting at 340KB (yes, *K*B), costing
$23,500 (in 1969 dollars).
757A etc.
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=548>
We also had an unusual PDP-11 version - said to be one of only 4 of its
kind.
Fond memories!
for years I needed Windows to update my TomTom, but no longer as the
current incumbent updates standalone via wifi. Another one is
purchased ebooks for my Kobo, the app is Windows only.
So we (YTIW) use the OS which accomodates the software we need.
I've probably said it here before, but I prefer to use Windows, not
because I think it's better than the alternatives (I don't have
enough experience with the alternatives to be able to compare them),
but primarily because I know it well, and I'm not interested in
taking the time and making the effort to learn something new, whether
Linux, Macintosh, or anything else. I don't think Windows is perfect,
and if I were in charge of Microsoft, I would make many what I think
would be improvements, but even as it is, it suits my needs just
fine.
The problem is that most software is only available for Windows and
not for Linux.
On 10/3/23 23:02, Wally J wrote:
The _reason_ the iKooks hate when you snip is that's _their_ way of
changing the subject of a thread which tells the truth about Apple.
This is the main rule of all the uneducated low-IQ ignorant iKooks:
*Change the subject* *Fast!* *Blame everyone but Apple!*
Wouldn't snipping make it easier to change the subject, having less
context visible? Or do they edit the quotations?
They _hate_ every truth about Apple being discussed so they deflect.
And they blame you (or me) for telling the truth about Apple products.
Like Apple, they blame everyone but Apple for flaws in Apple products.
Just watch.
Right, I noticed.
On 2023-10-04 10:25, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-03 09:58, Frank Slootweg wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/2/23 12:21, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, as I mentioned to AJL, I use a local account, not a Microsoft >>>>> Account. From another response I infer that you probably use a MicrosoftI use Linux.
Account, if so, you already joined The Dark Side and all bets are off. >>>>
Then why your interest in the ((non-)ad) details/settings of Windows 11?
Anyway, I use both Windows and GNU. Have been using (real) UNIX since >>> the very early 80s [1]. In the end Five Nines HA (High Availability)
systems and all that jazz.
[1] And I've been using (16-bit) minicomputers *before* the PDP-11, so >>> take *that* one! :-)
hp-2100? (Evolved to the hp-1000).
HP 2100A? *That* new-fangled stuff!? :-)
No, the earlier and first one, the HP 2116A.
We had those too. One was used as an in-flight data recorder with an in-house designed data recorder - though I never used it.
We had pretty much, exactly, this setup when I began working for a co...: >>
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d3jhkjcgsv4w04ycf3pj4/ESO_Hewlett_Packard_2116_minicomputer.jpg?rlkey=b1zdy3vfrnt1f4ivoh52rc9g0
Don't know why the URL and filename says "2116", because what is shown is a 2100 (has pushbutton switches with lights, instead of tumbler switches).
That's the filename from Wikipedia commons.
2100A
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=98>
2116 (picture is of 2116B)
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=95>
Also the disk drive is much newer and HP made, probably a 7900A. 5MB.
7900A
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=275>
I started with drum drives starting at 340KB (yes, *K*B), costing $23,500 (in 1969 dollars).
Insane.
2757A etc.
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=548>
We had the hp drive with a fixed lower platter (10MB) and cartridge
upper platter (10MB). Both driven by the same motor.
(Or maybe 5M ea. ).
When we'd start a new variant of the s/w (navigation s/w for military aircraft) we'd go to the stationery "store" in the division and provide
a charge number for a new cart. I don't recall them being very
expensive (about $100) - but that was some time ago!
We also had an unusual PDP-11 version - said to be one of only 4 of its
kind.
Fond memories!
Near the end of the PDP-11's use it got a 50MB disk platter drive. It
occurs to me that my Internet connection transfers in excess of 50MB per second ...
I didn't use the PDP-11 much - but was happy when we got a VAX-780 which
was then upgraded to a 785 with an incredible 16MB of RAM!!!! It was integrated with an hp-64000 development system (wonderful!) so you could
sit in your cubicle and work on your hardware over in the 64000 room (we
had about 10 stations in there all connected by HP-IB (IEEE-488)). http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=784
So all source code stayed on the VAX, edit/assembled/compiled/linked
there, and then you could "load" onto the 64000 emulators (8080, 8085,
8086, 6800, 68000, ...) whatever code and get to debugging on your
actual hardware. Very pleasant.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d3jhkjcgsv4w04ycf3pj4/ESO_Hewlett_Packard_2116_minicomputer.jpg?rlkey=b1zdy3vfrnt1f4ivoh52rc9g0
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:<<S>>
At the time, there were HP2000 TimeShare systems which used these drum drives, probably the somewhat higher capacity ones, which supported 16
(or 32?) simultaneous users! Ran BASIC, so the per program size was
small (compared to compiled/linked code).
2757A etc.
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=548>
We had the hp drive with a fixed lower platter (10MB) and cartridge
upper platter (10MB). Both driven by the same motor.
(Or maybe 5M ea. ).
Probably an HP7906A:
<http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=402>
When open for service, you'd better take your watch off or the magnets
in the drive would do that *for* you!
When we'd start a new variant of the s/w (navigation s/w for military
aircraft) we'd go to the stationery "store" in the division and provide
a charge number for a new cart. I don't recall them being very
expensive (about $100) - but that was some time ago!
We also had an unusual PDP-11 version - said to be one of only 4 of its >>>> kind.
Fond memories!
Near the end of the PDP-11's use it got a 50MB disk platter drive. It
occurs to me that my Internet connection transfers in excess of 50MB per
second ...
I didn't use the PDP-11 much - but was happy when we got a VAX-780 which
was then upgraded to a 785 with an incredible 16MB of RAM!!!! It was
integrated with an hp-64000 development system (wonderful!) so you could
sit in your cubicle and work on your hardware over in the 64000 room (we
had about 10 stations in there all connected by HP-IB (IEEE-488)).
http://hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=784
So all source code stayed on the VAX, edit/assembled/compiled/linked
there, and then you could "load" onto the 64000 emulators (8080, 8085,
8086, 6800, 68000, ...) whatever code and get to debugging on your
actual hardware. Very pleasant.
The Vaxes were the competitors of our HP9000 UNIX systems. Used a lot
of HP-IB devices, both instruments and computer peripherals.
Coming back to your picture:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/d3jhkjcgsv4w04ycf3pj4/ESO_Hewlett_Packard_2116_minicomputer.jpg?rlkey=b1zdy3vfrnt1f4ivoh52rc9g0
I wrote a turn-key application - in assembler - for a system much like that (just had a scanner/ADC instead of the disk drive). It was used as
a data-logging system while sinking caissons (is that the right word?)
for the dutch water defense works (Delta Works [1]). The system used two magnetic tape drives, so when one tape was full, it could write to the
other one, while the first was rewinding and getting a new tape.
I still got the papertapes and a magtape with the software. Of course
I can no longer read it, but it's a nice momento for old times sake.
BTW, the guy in the picture could have been me! At the time I also had black hair, beard and tie. Now none of them. (My wife says: "That looks
like you!").
[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works>
On 2023-10-04 10:06, Ken Blake wrote:
On 3 Oct 2023 19:23:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones, >>>>> it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for >>>>> the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so
I would also prefer to use Linux.
I've probably said it here before, but I prefer to use Windows, not
because I think it's better than the alternatives (I don't have enough
experience with the alternatives to be able to compare them), but
primarily because I know it well, and I'm not interested in taking the
time and making the effort to learn something new, whether Linux,
Macintosh, or anything else. I don't think Windows is perfect, and if
I were in charge of Microsoft, I would make many what I think would be
improvements, but even as it is, it suits my needs just fine.
The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
Yes, and that's another reason for me to stay with Windows.
You could install Virtual Box on your PC and in turn install Linux to
"play with".
This allows you to be in Windows and Linux at the same
time, no need for another machine and both OS' will run full speed
(absent a heavy load on the other).
Otherwise, bypass Linux if you have entanglements with clients that
require the more common s/w such as MS Office.
The only s/w I wish was on Mac is the accounting s/w my accountants
insists that I use (Sage 50). But we'll migrate that to a 'cloud'
solution in the next year or 2. Maybe. In the meantime it's in a VM on
my Mac.
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from his >Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick with >Windows...
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 11:19:17 -0400, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-04 10:06, Ken Blake wrote:
On 3 Oct 2023 19:23:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier ones, >>>>>> it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and for >>>>>> the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so >>>> I would also prefer to use Linux.
I've probably said it here before, but I prefer to use Windows, not
because I think it's better than the alternatives (I don't have enough
experience with the alternatives to be able to compare them), but
primarily because I know it well, and I'm not interested in taking the
time and making the effort to learn something new, whether Linux,
Macintosh, or anything else. I don't think Windows is perfect, and if
I were in charge of Microsoft, I would make many what I think would be
improvements, but even as it is, it suits my needs just fine.
The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
Yes, and that's another reason for me to stay with Windows.
You could install Virtual Box on your PC and in turn install Linux to
"play with".
I only use Win for tax, but I was having CUPS problems with the printer
and one thing Win does is "just work" with printers :-(
Carlos E. R. wrote:
candycanearter07 wrote:
for years I needed Windows to update my TomTom, but no longer as the
current incumbent updates standalone via wifi. Another one is
purchased ebooks for my Kobo, the app is Windows only.
I have a similar problem with my Google bought ebooks. There's no Google ebook app in the MS store. Fortunately Google ebooks can be read in a
browser so I can still read them in Windows (but seldom do).
So we (YTIW) use the OS which accomodates the software we need.
Or do a work around. My Amazon Fire OS tablets originally would only
read Kindle ebooks. But it was relatively easy to sideload the Google
Android ebook reader app so now I can read my Google ebooks on my Amazon tablets. Take that Amazon...
Have you tried Calibre? It is multiplatform, and I'm sure it includes an
epub reader that works in Windows.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)
I get *no* ads on this
Windows 11 Home (local account) system.
On 2023-10-04 10:06, Ken Blake wrote:
On 3 Oct 2023 19:23:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier >>>>> ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and
for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so >>> I would also prefer to use Linux.
I've probably said it here before, but I prefer to use Windows, not
because I think it's better than the alternatives (I don't have enough
experience with the alternatives to be able to compare them), but
primarily because I know it well, and I'm not interested in taking the
time and making the effort to learn something new, whether Linux,
Macintosh, or anything else. I don't think Windows is perfect, and if
I were in charge of Microsoft, I would make many what I think would be
improvements, but even as it is, it suits my needs just fine.
The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
Yes, and that's another reason for me to stay with Windows.
You could install Virtual Box on your PC and in turn install Linux to
"play with". This allows you to be in Windows and Linux at the same
time, no need for another machine and both OS' will run full speed
(absent a heavy load on the other).
Otherwise, bypass Linux if you have entanglements with clients that
require the more common s/w such as MS Office.
The only s/w I wish was on Mac is the accounting s/w my accountants
insists that I use (Sage 50). But we'll migrate that to a 'cloud'
solution in the next year or 2. Maybe. In the meantime it's in a VM on
my Mac.
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from his Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick with Windows...
Side note. I recently saw some video (YouTube) where it was stated you
could get apps to strip Windows of a lot of its bloat ware. It would
present a manifest of all the bloat, and you would select what to keep.
The rest would be removed.
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools (Firefox). I
can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
The only snag I have is sharing files with people that insist on sending documents made with proprietary formats (Word), but it doesn't affect me.
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
Sure, use Windows if you like it, I will not suggest you change (you oranybody). But saying that Linux has no software or can't be used on the desktop... It is a popular mantra, but it is not that true.
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from his
Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick with
Windows...
Conversely, I know old folk that "got" switched to Linux, remotely
maintained by some younger relative, and they don't even notice :-) >
They are even happier, by not having to ever again worry about viri and
ugly critters :-p
My general advice for old folk is, use the OS for which you have local support (usually meaning relatives). If they are familiar with
something, don't change unless there are compelling reasons.
These iKooks make it sound like it's hard to get rid of the stuff that Microsoft would love for you to leave in, by default, upon setup.
For an iKook, who is used to not being able to conrol the OS, it's
difficult; but for a normal adult of normal intelligence it's easy.
You just say "no" to the switches that ask you in the beginning setup.
With Android, all you need is local adb (or adb running on a PC).
To be fair, from what I have heard you need to do registry edits to get
rid of everything invasive, it takes a while to remove all the bloat,
and some of it gets reinstalled during updates.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
To be fair, from what I have heard you need to do registry edits to get
rid of everything invasive, it takes a while to remove all the bloat,
and some of it gets reinstalled during updates.
You do NOT need to mess with the Windows system registry to remove stuff.
Here is a screenshot of my Windows 10 with Android cast seamlessly on it (audio/video and keyboard and mouse and clipboard - all seamless).
<https://i.postimg.cc/CLcYkNNh/desktop.jpg>
You see there is no "Start Menu" and no "Tile Menu" right?
And the Windows XP (copied verbatim!) cascade menu still works, right?
There is no Microsoft Account either.
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
To be fair, from what I have heard you need to do registry edits to get
rid of everything invasive, it takes a while to remove all the bloat,
and some of it gets reinstalled during updates.
You do NOT need to mess with the Windows system registry to remove stuff.
Here is a screenshot of my Windows 10 with Android cast seamlessly on it (audio/video and keyboard and mouse and clipboard - all seamless).
<https://i.postimg.cc/CLcYkNNh/desktop.jpg>
You see there is no "Start Menu" and no "Tile Menu" right?
And the Windows XP (copied verbatim!) cascade menu still works, right?
There is no Microsoft Account either.
No Cortana button.
No Contacts button either.
And no ads anywhere.
I didn't need to open the Windows system registry even once to do all that. And more.
The only thing it takes to properly set up a computer is to set the
switches that give you the choice of how you want it to be set up.
Of course, this works as long as it's not an Apple device, and if you don't believe me, take a look at some of these screenshots to back up that fact.
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 11:19:17 -0400, Alan Browne
You could install Virtual Box on your PC and in turn install Linux to
"play with".
I put Win7 in a VB on my linux machine. Took forever to update, of
course, and it eventually crashed. Didn't try to repeat the process. Too
bad, because it would be handy. I already have a separate Win7 machine connected with a KVM switch, but it takes Win quite a while to boot.
I only use Win for tax, but I was having CUPS problems with the printer
and one thing Win does is "just work" with printers :-(
AJL wrote:
There's no Google ebook app in the MS store. Fortunately Google
ebooks can be read in a browser so I can still read them in
Windows (but seldom do).
Have you tried Calibre? It is multiplatform, and I'm sure it
includes an epub reader that works in Windows. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)>
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-04 10:06, Ken Blake wrote:
On 3 Oct 2023 19:23:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote:
On 10/3/23 13:26, Frank Slootweg wrote:
As I mentioned before, it's not all that bad. Like the earlier >>>>>> ones,
it can be beaten into submission. The Windows Update part is more
difficult to control/prevent, but most things can be controlled and >>>>>> for
the nitty-gritty control, there are third-party tools.
Fair. I just prefer Linux
As I mentioned before, I've been using UNIX for over four decades, so >>>> I would also prefer to use Linux.
I've probably said it here before, but I prefer to use Windows, not
because I think it's better than the alternatives (I don't have enough
experience with the alternatives to be able to compare them), but
primarily because I know it well, and I'm not interested in taking the
time and making the effort to learn something new, whether Linux,
Macintosh, or anything else. I don't think Windows is perfect, and if
I were in charge of Microsoft, I would make many what I think would be
improvements, but even as it is, it suits my needs just fine.
The problem is that most software is
only available for Windows and not for Linux.
Yes, and that's another reason for me to stay with Windows.
You could install Virtual Box on your PC and in turn install Linux to
"play with". This allows you to be in Windows and Linux at the same
time, no need for another machine and both OS' will run full speed
(absent a heavy load on the other).
Otherwise, bypass Linux if you have entanglements with clients that
require the more common s/w such as MS Office.
The only s/w I wish was on Mac is the accounting s/w my accountants
insists that I use (Sage 50). But we'll migrate that to a 'cloud'
solution in the next year or 2. Maybe. In the meantime it's in a VM on >> my Mac.
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools (Firefox). I
can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
The only snag I have is sharing files with people that insist on sending documents made with proprietary formats (Word), but it doesn't affect me.
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
Sure, use Windows if you like it, I will not suggest you change (you or anybody). But saying that Linux has no software or can't be used on the desktop... It is a popular mantra, but it is not that true.
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from his
Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick with
Windows...
Conversely, I know old folk that "got" switched to Linux, remotely
maintained by some younger relative, and they don't even notice :-)
They are even happier, by not having to ever again worry about viri and
ugly critters :-p
My general advice for old folk is, use the OS for which you have local support (usually meaning relatives). If they are familiar with
something, don't change unless there are compelling reasons.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
AJL wrote:
There's no Google ebook app in the MS store. Fortunately Google
ebooks can be read in a browser so I can still read them in
Windows (but seldom do).
Have you tried Calibre? It is multiplatform, and I'm sure it
includes an epub reader that works in Windows.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)>
Unfortunately Calibre won't read Google Play Books (ebooks) directly.
However they can be converted (if not DRMed) to epub or pdf so then
could be read using Calibre for Windows. However since I usually
read on a 7" tablet, and seldom on the laptop, I figured the browser
would suffice for the few times that I do.
BTW I used to use Calibre some years back when I stole ebooks from the
Usenet ebook groups. Then a son-in-law became an author and I got
religion. So I buy them now and never confessed to the SIL what I did...
8-O
Anyway, thanks for the suggestion...
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Have you tried Calibre? It is multiplatform, and I'm sure it includes an
epub reader that works in Windows.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)
I agree with Carlos that there is likely no better document converting software than Calibre freeware for multiplatform multi format support.
It even converts entire books to editable Microsoft Word, for God's sake.
It outputs 13 different formats, some of which (offhand) are mobi, epub,
pdf, amazon azw and azw3, pdf, docx and a bunch of other formats.
I've tested every free epub conversion software ever suggested on the
Windows PC newsgroups where I concur with Carlos that Calibre is the best.
Offhand, some of those epub conversion tools are...
<https://calibre-ebook.com/download_windows>
<http://www.hamstersoft.com/free-ebook-converter/>
<http://lucidor.org/lucidor/>
<https://okular.kde.org/download.php>
<http://www.pdflite.com/epub-to-pdf/>
<http://www.stdutility.com/stduviewer.html>
etc.
Epub conversion is easy.
It's reading out in text to speech that isn't as easy to find good apps.
My main question on this is what document-reader (text to speech) do people on this newsgroup use to read out those epub format books verbally?
The reason I ask is I have relatives who are going blind and they need it.
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I seem
to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard real time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux (baseline) is not a
real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)).
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools (Firefox). I
can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
What you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents" with
others in your organization, your customer, regulatory authorities, suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS Office, esp. in
North America and usually most other places.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are often
marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months).
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as Office
is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp with all the
markups (properly and improperly done).
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with work documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot.
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is pretty
much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I evaluated
it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
The only snag I have is sharing files with people that insist on
sending documents made with proprietary formats (Word), but it doesn't
affect me.
First off that is not an issue, Libre will import those docs and export
them quite well. The problem is when re-exporting as Word (or Excel). Errors creep in. Some are nits like formatting. Some are actual errors that affect the meaning of the document. Just fixing formatting errors
is very time consuming and frankly a bore to have to contend with.
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I'm on Mac, so same, though it's not something I use a lot. Two large screens is enough workspace for me. Indeed I may up to 3 screens when I
get a new Mac.
Sure, use Windows if you like it, I will not suggest you change (youor anybody). But saying that Linux has no software or can't be used on
the desktop... It is a popular mantra, but it is not that true.
See above. If you happen to be able to work in a Libre bubble, then
that's fine. But the business world is largely MS Office oriented, esp.
in North America.
Some European countries have mandated Linux+Libre+others for federal and state/provincial and maybe some cities too. But this falls apart when
say some agency in Europe has to work with a Canadian or American company.
(Final docs are often exchanged as pdf, but before that it's all markup
in Word, Excel - even Powerpoint).
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from
his Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick
with Windows...
Conversely, I know old folk that "got" switched to Linux, remotely
maintained by some younger relative, and they don't even notice :-) >
They are even happier, by not having to ever again worry about viri
and ugly critters :-p
My general advice for old folk is, use the OS for which you have local
support (usually meaning relatives). If they are familiar with
something, don't change unless there are compelling reasons.
Mine is: if you're happy with what you have and it does what you need,
don't fix or change it. And yes - the relatives or friends thing.
On 10/5/23 11:09 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-04 10:06, Ken Blake wrote:
On 3 Oct 2023 19:23:34 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools (Firefox). I
can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
The only snag I have is sharing files with people that insist on sending
documents made with proprietary formats (Word), but it doesn't affect me.
Libre Office reads and writes more Word documents than Word does.
Powerpoint crap too.
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
Four, and I get to them just by moving my mouse cursor to the
appropriate edge. Too hard to deal with more. I can have four (maybe
more) in Win7 but I have to click on a thing at the bottom of the screen
to choose. Too much trouble.
Sure, use Windows if you like it, I will not suggest you change (you or
anybody). But saying that Linux has no software or can't be used on the
desktop... It is a popular mantra, but it is not that true.
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from
his Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick
with Windows...
Conversely, I know old folk that "got" switched to Linux, remotely
maintained by some younger relative, and they don't even notice :-)
We started my mom off with Win3 and Solitaire and worked up to useful
stuff -- Thunderbird, Firefox and some other games. Solitaire is good
for novices -- friendly and familiar and builds mouse skills. She was
really sorry that she didn't get involved with computers when she was working. We also forced a microwave on her, which she ended up loving. Sometimes children know best :-)
They are even happier, by not having to ever again worry about viri and
ugly critters :-p
My general advice for old folk is, use the OS for which you have local
support (usually meaning relatives). If they are familiar with
something, don't change unless there are compelling reasons.
Good advice for any novice. That's why I'm using slackware :-(
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers - microcontrollers - modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I seem
to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard real time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux (baseline) is not a
real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)).
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
On 2023-10-05 20:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I seem
to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard real time
credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux (baseline) is not a
real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)).
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools (Firefox).
I can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
What you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents" with
others in your organization, your customer, regulatory authorities,
suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS Office, esp. in
North America and usually most other places.
You can use Word Live, inside a web browser, I'm told. I saw today
someone use Excel Live inside Linux.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are often
marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months).
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as
Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp with
all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux, though, but
to using some proprietary office software that decides to not sell for
Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with work
documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot.
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is pretty
much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent
under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I
evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
The only snag I have is sharing files with people that insist on
sending documents made with proprietary formats (Word), but it
doesn't affect me.
First off that is not an issue, Libre will import those docs and
export them quite well. The problem is when re-exporting as Word (or
Excel). Errors creep in. Some are nits like formatting. Some are
actual errors that affect the meaning of the document. Just fixing
formatting errors is very time consuming and frankly a bore to have to
contend with.
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I'm on Mac, so same, though it's not something I use a lot. Two large
screens is enough workspace for me. Indeed I may up to 3 screens when
I get a new Mac.
I was not talking of having several displays :-)
Sure, use Windows if you like it, I will not suggest you change(you or anybody). But saying that Linux has no software or can't be
used on the desktop... It is a popular mantra, but it is not that true.
See above. If you happen to be able to work in a Libre bubble, then
that's fine. But the business world is largely MS Office oriented,
esp. in North America.
Some European countries have mandated Linux+Libre+others for federal
and state/provincial and maybe some cities too. But this falls apart
when say some agency in Europe has to work with a Canadian or American
company.
(Final docs are often exchanged as pdf, but before that it's all
markup in Word, Excel - even Powerpoint).
My uncle (late 80er) called to ask if he should switch to Mac from
his Windows laptop. I asked him a few Q's ... and told him to stick
with Windows...
Conversely, I know old folk that "got" switched to Linux, remotely
maintained by some younger relative, and they don't even notice :-) >
They are even happier, by not having to ever again worry about viri
and ugly critters :-p
My general advice for old folk is, use the OS for which you have
local support (usually meaning relatives). If they are familiar with
something, don't change unless there are compelling reasons.
Mine is: if you're happy with what you have and it does what you need,
don't fix or change it. And yes - the relatives or friends thing.
Right :-)
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers - microcontrollers - modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I seem
to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard real time
credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux (baseline) is not a
real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)).
You're probably thinking of RTLinux. My then-employer paid for courses
in RTLinux for a bunch of us developers where we compiled our own
kernels and specialized semi-real-time apps. It was a relatively fun and interesting exercise. I think I still have that code laying around
gathering dust on my file server.
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
On 2023-10-05 19:27, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me
:-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
I've been off PS for a bit - since they went rental and pissed me off.
I use Hasselblad's very decent editor instead. It's not PS, but more
than serviceable enough for my needs - and head and shoulders over
GIMP.
As ML/AI comes into all sorts of production s/w ... almost scary...!
Another surprise is DaVinci Resolve as a I do more video editing.
It's not a great editing environment (very steep learning curve) but
it's incredibly powerful, free (for amateurs) and there are endless
plug-in functions from contributors. (It's a colour grading tool that happens to edit rather than the other way around). Good thing there
are gobs of YouTube helper videos out there too.
Still - I might splurge on Final Cut Pro - now that it's settled down
into a capable editor - when I buy the new Mac.
AJL wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Have you tried Calibre? It is multiplatform, and I'm sure it
includes an epub reader that works in Windows.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)>
Unfortunately Calibre won't read my Google Play Books (ebooks).
That's surprising.
Do they say why?
Carlos E. R. wrote:
AJL wrote:
Unfortunately Calibre won't read my Google Play Books (ebooks).
That's surprising.
On researching your question I found that "some" GPB ebooks can in
fact be downloaded in epup or pdf format. So I stand corrected.
Apparently it is a decision made by the author and/or publisher.
Do they say why?
Not that I could find. My GUESS (for the ones that can't) would be
to avoid pirating and/or sharing (like with Usenet).
For me it still makes no difference because the browser method is
still much easier (adding one bookmark) for the few times that I read
on my Windows laptop...
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-05 20:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I
seem to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard real
time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux (baseline) is
not a real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)).
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools (Firefox).
I can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
What you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents" with
others in your organization, your customer, regulatory authorities,
suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS Office, esp. in
North America and usually most other places.
You can use Word Live, inside a web browser, I'm told. I saw today
someone use Excel Live inside Linux.
It's not the only the only thing that is not in Linux that is in Windows.
And of course getting thousands of companies in an industry category
(say aerospace and defense) to suddenly switch is a fantasy at best -
even if you could make the case that it's in their best interest to do so.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are often
marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months).
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as
Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp with
all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux, though, but
to using some proprietary office software that decides to not sell for
Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with work
documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot.
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is
pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent
under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I
evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
The only snag I have is sharing files with people that insist on
sending documents made with proprietary formats (Word), but it
doesn't affect me.
First off that is not an issue, Libre will import those docs and
export them quite well. The problem is when re-exporting as Word (or
Excel). Errors creep in. Some are nits like formatting. Some are
actual errors that affect the meaning of the document. Just fixing
formatting errors is very time consuming and frankly a bore to have
to contend with.
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I'm on Mac, so same, though it's not something I use a lot. Two
large screens is enough workspace for me. Indeed I may up to 3
screens when I get a new Mac.
I was not talking of having several displays :-)
No shit. The point is what's useful to you is also available to me
(Mac), but I don't use it.
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
On 10/5/23 4:27 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-) >>>
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
I wish I wanted to do something that complex with my photos. I've used
and liked Irfanview on windows and really like Picasa on linux -- 30
seconds or less per photo and I'm happy. I wanted to fix the
perspective on a tall-building shot with GIMP once and ultimately
succeeded, but it was pretty painful. GIMP's idea of 'help' is... problematical.
Carlos E. R. wrote:
AJL wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Have you tried Calibre? It is multiplatform, and I'm sure it
includes an epub reader that works in Windows.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calibre_(software)>
Unfortunately Calibre won't read my Google Play Books (ebooks).
That's surprising.
On researching your question I found that "some" GPB ebooks can in fact
be downloaded in epup or pdf format. So I stand corrected. Apparently it
is a decision made by the author and/or publisher.
Do they say why?
Not that I could find. My GUESS (for the ones that can't) would be to
avoid pirating and/or sharing (like with Usenet).
For me it still makes no difference because the browser method is
still much easier (adding one bookmark) for the few times that I read on
my Windows laptop...
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-10-03 04:11, Wally J wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Most of the functionality in Windows (or Android) isn't coming from the >>>>> maker of the operating system - the functionality comes from developers. >>>>And Win 11 is Win 10 with extra paint. And ads.
My wife unthinkingly upgraded her PC to Windows 11 where I don't use hers >>> often but I haven't seen any ads on hers. Are you sure Win 11 has ads?
To be clear, I'm sure YouTube has ads (even though I never see them).
And I'm sure web pages you go to will show ads (again, I never see them). >>>
But it seems you're claiming the operating system is popping up ads.
Under what circumstances does Windows 11 show non-app advertisements?
On another person using Windows (unknown version, I did not check) I see
"things" pop up from the bottom-right which if not adverts are
borderline and which have to be closed. I did not pay attention, so I
can't cite what they said.
And no, she is not using a M$ account.
If on the bottom-right, just above the Taskbar, they are probably notifications, i.e. similar to what you (can) get on the lock screen and notification panel of your smartphone.
Configuration in done via Settings -> System -> Notifications.
You can turn off all notifications or configure details, also on a per 'app' basis. Also things like 'Do not disturb' are there.
From a comment on the settings page, I understand that this thing is called the 'notification centre' (Yes, my system is UK English! :-)).
Anyway, also in the notification centre, I get *no* ads on this
Windows 11 Home (local account) system.
AJL wrote:
I found that "some" GPB ebooks can in fact be downloaded in epup
or pdf format. So I stand corrected. Apparently it is a decision
made by the author and/or publisher.
Do they say why?
Not that I could find. My GUESS (for the ones that can't) would be
to avoid pirating and/or sharing (like with Usenet).
Meaning that they are DRM protected? Or some other method?
If it is DRM, and the books can be managed by ADE, there are methods
to open them.
On 2023-10-04 15:46, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Anyway, also in the notification centre, I get *no* ads on this
Windows 11 Home (local account) system.
A peeve she had was with lots of adverts on the browser. Turned out
that she was using Chrome.
I installed Firefox with uBlock Origin, and that was a difference.
Problem is, she is really used to Chrome integration with google
tools.
On 2023-10-06 01:27, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-) >>>
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS >>> that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
When I made the switch from Windows (with CorelDraw) to Linux, I was
amazed at how good Gimp was, considering the price difference.
On 2023-10-06 01:16, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-05 20:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I
seem to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard
real time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux
(baseline) is not a real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)).
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools
(Firefox). I can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
What you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents" with
others in your organization, your customer, regulatory authorities,
suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS Office, esp. in
North America and usually most other places.
You can use Word Live, inside a web browser, I'm told. I saw today [AAA] >>> someone use Excel Live inside Linux.
It's not the only the only thing that is not in Linux that is in Windows.
And of course getting thousands of companies in an industry category
(say aerospace and defense) to suddenly switch is a fantasy at best -
even if you could make the case that it's in their best interest to do
so.
I never said anything about making companies switch, far less en masse.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are often
marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months).
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as
Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp with
all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux, though,
but to using some proprietary office software that decides to not
sell for Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with work
documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot.
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is
pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent
under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I
evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.
I know photographers that work in Linux :-P
Anyway, I'm not a professional photographer, nor is everybody.
My graphics needs are luckily not as demanding as they used to be, but
I've been using Serif's Affinity replacements for Photoshop,
Illustrator, and InDesign for a while now and they get the job done for
way less money and no subscription. I love that there are plenty of
options for those of us who refuse to funnel our budget at Adobe indefinitely.
On 10/5/23 19:12, Jolly Roger wrote:
My graphics needs are luckily not as demanding as they used to be, but
I've been using Serif's Affinity replacements for Photoshop,
Illustrator, and InDesign for a while now and they get the job done for
way less money and no subscription. I love that there are plenty of
options for those of us who refuse to funnel our budget at Adobe
indefinitely.
I think having competent apps at a *reasonable price for individuals* is important, so good job for finding that!
I was sad when Autodesk bought Eagle, destroyed the product pricing,
then ultimately decided to discontinue it when users balked at the new product model <https://www.hackster.io/news/autodesk-announces-the-end-of-eagle-707864d95d7e>. Now that capability costs $70 per month.
On 10/6/23 08:31, sms wrote:
I was sad when Autodesk bought Eagle, destroyed the product pricing,
then ultimately decided to discontinue it when users balked at the new
product model
<https://www.hackster.io/news/autodesk-announces-the-end-of-eagle-707864d95d7e>. Now that capability costs $70 per month.
OUCH. It always sucks when a program you love suddenly betrays its
consumers. It seems to be happening a lot lately (unity)
Acquired by Adobe.
Re-named Audition.
Priced: US$400.
Now subscription at an eye watering $21/month.
A peeve she had was with lots of adverts on the browser. Turned out that
she was using Chrome. I installed Firefox with uBlock Origin, and that
was a difference. Problem is, she is really used to Chrome integration
with google tools.
On Carlos E. R. wrote:
AJL wrote:
I found that "some" GPB ebooks can in fact be downloaded in epup
or pdf format. So I stand corrected. Apparently it is a decision
made by the author and/or publisher.
Do they say why?
Not that I could find. My GUESS (for the ones that can't) would be
to avoid pirating and/or sharing (like with Usenet).
Meaning that they are DRM protected? Or some other method?
Dunno. I got my info from Wikipedia (about GPB) that said:
"For reading on e-readers or third-party apps, some ebooks, but not all,
can be downloaded in the EPUB ("flowing text") or PDF ("original pages") formats."
I'm sure further investigation could find your answer. Go for it...
If it is DRM, and the books can be managed by ADE, there are methods
to open them.
As I said my pirate days are over. Ebooks are cheap entertainment so why screw the author (as I used to do)? YMMV...
On 2023-10-06 07:40, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/5/23 4:27 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-05, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-) >>>>
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in >>>> PS that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
I wish I wanted to do something that complex with my photos. I've used
and liked Irfanview on windows and really like Picasa on linux -- 30
seconds or less per photo and I'm happy. I wanted to fix the
perspective on a tall-building shot with GIMP once and ultimately
succeeded, but it was pretty painful. GIMP's idea of 'help' is...
problematical.
For those things, you have digiKam
On 2023-10-06 02:24, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 01:16, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-05 20:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop
platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has
emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I
seem to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard
real time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux
(baseline) is not a real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)). >>>>>
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre
Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools
(Firefox). I can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact
What you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents" with
others in your organization, your customer, regulatory authorities,
suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS Office, esp. in
North America and usually most other places.
You can use Word Live, inside a web browser, I'm told. I saw today
[AAA]
someone use Excel Live inside Linux.
It's not the only the only thing that is not in Linux that is in
Windows.
And of course getting thousands of companies in an industry category
(say aerospace and defense) to suddenly switch is a fantasy at best -
even if you could make the case that it's in their best interest to
do so.
I never said anything about making companies switch, far less en masse.
Never said you did. OTOH, your retort to me, [AAA] above, about why MS Office commonality in the business world was some workaround.
So, I replied about how unlikely that would be as it would require huge adoption across a lot of businesses at the same time.
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least forContracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are
often marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months).
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as
Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp with
all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux, though,
but to using some proprietary office software that decides to not
sell for Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with work
documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot.
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is
pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent
under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I
evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-) >>>
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.
I know photographers that work in Linux :-P
Anyway, I'm not a professional photographer, nor is everybody.
Never said photographers who use PS are pro.
Most hobby photographers are definitely, assuredly not using Linux.
On 10/5/2023 11:43 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 15:46, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Anyway, also in the notification centre, I get *no* ads on this
Windows 11 Home (local account) system.
A peeve she had was with lots of adverts on the browser. Turned out
that she was using Chrome.
Where are the ads located? There's no ads in my Chrome browsers (Windows
and Android).
I installed Firefox with uBlock Origin, and that was a difference.
uBlock Origin is an available extension for the Chrome browser.
Problem is, she is really used to Chrome integration with google
tools.
Sounds like the ads were coming from outside the browser or perhaps it
had been hacked. Do a little more checking and give her her browser back...
On 2023-10-06 09:32, AJL wrote:
On 10/5/2023 11:43 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
A peeve she had was with lots of adverts on the browser. Turned
out that she was using Chrome.
Where are the ads located? There's no ads in my Chrome browsers
(Windows and Android).
Anywhere in the pages.
I installed Firefox with uBlock Origin, and that was a
difference.
uBlock Origin is an available extension for the Chrome browser.
Possibly... I'm not familiar with Chrome myself.
In Linux, my normal browsing is with Firefox. When some page refuses
to work with Chrome (there are some) then I switch to Chrome, not
blocking anything so that the page does work.
Problem is, she is really used to Chrome integration with google
tools.
Sounds like the ads were coming from outside the browser or perhaps
it had been hacked. Do a little more checking and give her her
browser back...
I can't, there is a big pond between us.
I see similar adverts myself when I don't use an add blocker in the
browser.
On 2023-10-06 08:56, AJL wrote:
As I said my pirate days are over. Ebooks are cheap entertainment
so why screw the author (as I used to do)? YMMV...
Nobody said anything about pirating. All people I know using this
[DRM breaking] did purchase their books, but simply read them
somewhere else or make backups of them.
True for most all browsers. Your statement above that Chrome was the
cause of your friend's ad problem was false...
adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.android.chrome
adb shell pm uninstall --user 0 com.sec.android.app.chromecustomizations
Adblock Plus works beautifully in both firefox and chrome, at least in
linux. I haven't put chrome on the windows machine so I don't actually
know if it works on chrome/windows.
On 2023-10-06 14:22, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 02:24, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 01:16, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-05 20:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop >>>>>>>> platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux has >>>>>> emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I >>>>>> seem to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard
real time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux
(baseline) is not a real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)). >>>>>>
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office software (Libre >>>>>>> Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing toolsWhat you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents" with >>>>>> others in your organization, your customer, regulatory
(Firefox). I can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact >>>>>>
authorities, suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS
Office, esp. in North America and usually most other places.
You can use Word Live, inside a web browser, I'm told. I saw today
[AAA]
someone use Excel Live inside Linux.
It's not the only the only thing that is not in Linux that is in
Windows.
And of course getting thousands of companies in an industry category
(say aerospace and defense) to suddenly switch is a fantasy at best
- even if you could make the case that it's in their best interest
to do so.
I never said anything about making companies switch, far less en masse.
Never said you did. OTOH, your retort to me, [AAA] above, about why
MS Office commonality in the business world was some workaround.
So, I replied about how unlikely that would be as it would require
huge adoption across a lot of businesses at the same time.
No, I was simply curious about the saying that Linux is bad on the
Desktop. I found out that your testing was done around 2005.
And I commented that Excel Live, Word Live, etc, do run on Linux, and I
have seen people using those on the job.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are
often marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months). >>>>>>
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as
Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp
with all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux, though,
but to using some proprietary office software that decides to not
sell for Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with
work documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot.
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is
pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent >>>>>> under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I
evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me
:-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.
I know photographers that work in Linux :-P
Anyway, I'm not a professional photographer, nor is everybody.
Never said photographers who use PS are pro.
Most hobby photographers are definitely, assuredly not using Linux.
I know several that are using Linux.
On 2023-10-06 13:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:. Ooops - 50/50 Win/Mac ±10%.
I know several that are using Linux.
I know literally hundreds around here (amateur and pro) via work and
clubs. Never heard a single one mention Linux. About 50/50 Win/Linux
(±10%), probably leaning Windows due to the amateurs.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
Adblock Plus works beautifully in both firefox and chrome, at least in
linux. I haven't put chrome on the windows machine so I don't actually
know if it works on chrome/windows.
Hi The Real Bev,
Even if you were to put a "Chrome" browser onto Windows, I'd recommend the Ungoogled Chromium browser instead - for reasons that should be obvious.
<https://beebom.com/how-install-ungoogled-chromium/>
To further add value to the statements above, on Windows, the two main Chromium-based privacy-oriented browsers Epic & Opera seem to block most
ads (even YouTube ads) in my use of them both over the years on Win10.
Epic Privacy Browser: <https://www.epicbrowser.com/>
Opera VPN Browser: <https://www.opera.com/>
A good idea is to set your _default_ Windows browser to one of those.
Almost never do you bring up the default browser on purpose, right?
At least I never do.
Do you?
Anyway, the only time my default browser pops up is when "something" pops
it up, e.g., the end of an installer often pops up a "thank you" page.
Of course the killswitch handles that, but sometimes you get a web stub as the installer and in that case you must install while connected to the net.
It's helpful then that the page which pops up doesn't identify your IP address because it will automatically get the browser proxy IP address.
Of course another way around that problem is to use a VPN instead.
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
On 10/6/2023 10:18 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 08:56, AJL wrote:
As I said my pirate days are over. Ebooks are cheap entertainment
so why screw the author (as I used to do)? YMMV...
Nobody said anything about pirating. All people I know using this
[DRM breaking] did purchase their books, but simply read them
somewhere else or make backups of them.
Right. Heard that before on the Usenet binary ebook groups...
On 10/6/2023 10:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 09:32, AJL wrote:
On 10/5/2023 11:43 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
A peeve she had was with lots of adverts on the browser. Turned
out that she was using Chrome.
Where are the ads located? There's no ads in my Chrome browsers
(Windows and Android).
Anywhere in the pages.
If you mean web page ads brought up by the Chrome browser that's not
Chrome's fault. Chrome itself has no ads.
I installed Firefox with uBlock Origin, and that was a
difference.
uBlock Origin is an available extension for the Chrome browser.
Possibly... I'm not familiar with Chrome myself.
Ah. You might try using Chrome a bit before complaining about it.
In Linux, my normal browsing is with Firefox. When some page refuses
to work with Chrome (there are some) then I switch to Chrome, not
blocking anything so that the page does work.
Problem is, she is really used to Chrome integration with google
tools.
Sounds like the ads were coming from outside the browser or perhaps
it had been hacked. Do a little more checking and give her her
browser back...
I can't, there is a big pond between us.
Too bad. It appears you messed her up and now can't fix it.
I see similar adverts myself when I don't use an add blocker in the
browser.
True for most all browsers. Your statement above that Chrome was the
cause of your friend's ad problem was false...
On 2023-10-06 17:22, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
I wouldn't know. Just struck me the couple times I read that here or
there.
Indeed he's been using MacBooks for a few years - a quick search and he
is using (or recently so) an MBA with Asahi Linux - happy to be using
"ARM" (though M2 is ARM on steroids ...)
You'd think he'd lead the charge (or at least prod more) to improve the desktop space ... guess he has more important things to do ...
On 2023-10-06 13:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 14:22, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 02:24, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 01:16, Alan Browne wrote:Never said you did. OTOH, your retort to me, [AAA] above, about why
On 2023-10-05 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-05 20:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-05 14:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-04 17:19, Alan Browne wrote:
Nothing wrong with Linux - but it really is not a great desktop >>>>>>>>> platform. It's strengths lie elsewhere.
How do you define that?
Before going to the desktop issues, the core strength of Linux
has emerged where people don't see it:
- web hosting
- database / servers
- transaction servers
- supercomputers
- microcontrollers
- modems/routers
And other things. Occasionally pseudo real time applications. (I >>>>>>> seem to recall there is a version of Linux with some pretty hard >>>>>>> real time credentials, but I've lost track of that - Linux
(baseline) is not a real realtime OS (neither is Windows or MacOS)). >>>>>>>
I do all my desktop tasks in Linux. I have office softwareWhat you cannot do efficiently is exchange "living documents"
(Libre Office), I have email tools (Thunderbird), browsing tools >>>>>>>> (Firefox). I can do photo things. I can do all my things, in fact >>>>>>>
with others in your organization, your customer, regulatory
authorities, suppliers, etc. because the common office s/w is MS >>>>>>> Office, esp. in North America and usually most other places.
You can use Word Live, inside a web browser, I'm told. I saw today >>>>>> [AAA]
someone use Excel Live inside Linux.
It's not the only the only thing that is not in Linux that is in
Windows.
And of course getting thousands of companies in an industry
category (say aerospace and defense) to suddenly switch is a
fantasy at best - even if you could make the case that it's in
their best interest to do so.
I never said anything about making companies switch, far less en masse. >>>
MS Office commonality in the business world was some workaround.
So, I replied about how unlikely that would be as it would require
huge adoption across a lot of businesses at the same time.
No, I was simply curious about the saying that Linux is bad on the
Desktop. I found out that your testing was done around 2005.
That was when I was deciding whether or not to go Windows (Vista), Linux
or Mac.
I still use Linux (Ubuntu) for some software tests and validation and a development environment for Raspberry Pi. This is such a narrow use
case that I don't bother mentioning it.
(However that dev environment is blessed with a tool to install it on
Mac, so I usually run it on Mac anyway).
I just default to GNOME - haven't used other desktops in ages.
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you a
lot!
And I commented that Excel Live, Word Live, etc, do run on Linux, and
I have seen people using those on the job.
Via a webpage work around - which would not only be tedious, but for commercial, government and military contractual work would present
issues with my (former) customers.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are
often marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months). >>>>>>>
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as >>>>>>> Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp
with all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux, though, >>>>>> but to using some proprietary office software that decides to not
sell for Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with
work documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot. >>>>>>>
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is
pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative equivalent >>>>>>> under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around 2005 when I >>>>>>> evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for
me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features
in PS that don't exist for GIMP.
I know photographers that work in Linux :-P
Anyway, I'm not a professional photographer, nor is everybody.
Never said photographers who use PS are pro.
Most hobby photographers are definitely, assuredly not using Linux.
I know several that are using Linux.
I know literally hundreds around here (amateur and pro) via work and
clubs. Never heard a single one mention Linux. About 50/50 Win/Linux (±10%), probably leaning Windows due to the amateurs.
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are
so steep.
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I just
watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers off of that. >>
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are
so steep.
Some are more private and protective of their users than others.
On 2023-10-06 21:13, Alan Browne wrote:
(However that dev environment is blessed with a tool to install it on
Mac, so I usually run it on Mac anyway).
I just default to GNOME - haven't used other desktops in ages.
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
That's ancient :-p
He switched to XFCE on 2014 but I don't follow what he does.
And I commented that Excel Live, Word Live, etc, do run on Linux, and
I have seen people using those on the job.
Via a webpage work around - which would not only be tedious, but for
commercial, government and military contractual work would present
issues with my (former) customers.
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against usage of
any Microsoft product :-p
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are >>>>>>>> often marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take months). >>>>>>>>
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out as >>>>>>>> Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; esp >>>>>>>> with all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux,
though, but to using some proprietary office software that
decides to not sell for Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with >>>>>>>> work documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot. >>>>>>>>
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is >>>>>>>> pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative
equivalent under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period around >>>>>>>> 2005 when I evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way behind
Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for >>>>>>> me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features >>>>>> in PS that don't exist for GIMP.
I know photographers that work in Linux :-P
Anyway, I'm not a professional photographer, nor is everybody.
Never said photographers who use PS are pro.
Most hobby photographers are definitely, assuredly not using Linux.
I know several that are using Linux.
I know literally hundreds around here (amateur and pro) via work and
clubs. Never heard a single one mention Linux. About 50/50 Win/Linux
(±10%), probably leaning Windows due to the amateurs.
Because you move around in Windows clubs :-p
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-06 21:13, Alan Browne wrote:
(However that dev environment is blessed with a tool to install it on
Mac, so I usually run it on Mac anyway).
I just default to GNOME - haven't used other desktops in ages.
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
That's ancient :-p
He switched to XFCE on 2014 but I don't follow what he does.
I just looked this up. You see it in my reply to Mr. Higton.
And I commented that Excel Live, Word Live, etc, do run on Linux,
and I have seen people using those on the job.
Via a webpage work around - which would not only be tedious, but for
commercial, government and military contractual work would present
issues with my (former) customers.
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against usage
of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies. Which in
some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Contracts, agreements, technical specs and other documents are >>>>>>>>> often marked up heavily during negotiations (that can take
months).
So having to import/export a document into Libre and back out >>>>>>>>> as Office is inconvenient, time consuming and prone to error; >>>>>>>>> esp with all the markups (properly and improperly done).
Yeah, that would be a hurdle. It is not specific to Linux,
though, but to using some proprietary office software that
decides to not sell for Linux.
( I went through this exercise back in the 2005 timeframe with >>>>>>>>> work documents. It was a frustrating waste of time).
If everyone sticks to Office, it makes things smoother. A lot. >>>>>>>>>
Getting everyone to switch to Libre (regardless of platform) is >>>>>>>>> pretty much a non-starter.
Other s/w includes Photoshop. There is no qualitative
equivalent under Linux (or certainly wasn't in the period
around 2005 when I evaluated it. (Forget Gimp - it is way
behind Photoshop).
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for >>>>>>>> me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for >>>>>>> photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features >>>>>>> in PS that don't exist for GIMP.
I know photographers that work in Linux :-P
Anyway, I'm not a professional photographer, nor is everybody.
Never said photographers who use PS are pro.
Most hobby photographers are definitely, assuredly not using Linux.
I know several that are using Linux.
I know literally hundreds around here (amateur and pro) via work and
clubs. Never heard a single one mention Linux. About 50/50
Win/Linux (±10%), probably leaning Windows due to the amateurs.
Because you move around in Windows clubs :-p
I can't help what people choose. But I do note that not many people
choose Linux as a desktop system.
Which is pretty damning for a free OS with a great swath of free apps.
(This drew my attention once-upon-a-time).
In the US, Mac OS is at a whopping 32% per "statcounter" where Linux continues to languish in the 2% range. Add ChromeOS if you will for an additional near 8%.
On 2023-10-06 17:56, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I
just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers
off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from
and the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the
discounts are so steep.
Some are more private and protective of their users than others.
Probably - Nord has a good rep in that regard. I'll do my research
before the next flip which is ... ugh, this coming Feb... <sigh>
Almost never do you bring up the default browser on purpose, right?
At least I never do.
Do you?
No. I put Firefox on, but haven't bothered to do any personalization/configuration on it. Accordingly,when I have to use it
I have to figure out what to do -- the virgin version is vastly
different from the version(s) that I use. I wish I wanted to spend some
time working on it, but I don't.
Hrm. I thought I'd put adblock on the win firefox. I know I've done it before, but maybe it was on the laptop... Gotta check next time I fire
it up.
Anyway, the only time my default browser pops up is when "something" pops
it up, e.g., the end of an installer often pops up a "thank you" page.
Of course the killswitch handles that, but sometimes you get a web stub as >> the installer and in that case you must install while connected to the net. >>
It's helpful then that the page which pops up doesn't identify your IP
address because it will automatically get the browser proxy IP address.
Of course another way around that problem is to use a VPN instead.
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:56, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I
just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers
off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from
and the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the
discounts are so steep.
Some are more private and protective of their users than others.
Probably - Nord has a good rep in that regard. I'll do my research
before the next flip which is ... ugh, this coming Feb... <sigh>
Yes, it appears Nord's no-logs policy has been verified by independent auditors, which is also the case for Proton's VPN service. But I do
recall Nord VPN being breached a few years ago. I'm sure they've beefed
up security since then. I prefer Proton anyway since I use them for
other services.
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against usage
of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies. Which
in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
Because you move around in Windows clubs :-p
I can't help what people choose. But I do note that not many people
choose Linux as a desktop system.
Which is pretty damning for a free OS with a great swath of free apps.
(This drew my attention once-upon-a-time).
Damming? Not at all.
In the US, Mac OS is at a whopping 32% per "statcounter" where Linux
continues to languish in the 2% range. Add ChromeOS if you will for
an additional near 8%.
As there are no sales, stats are not reliable.
On 2023-10-06 19:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:56, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I
just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers
off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from
and the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the
discounts are so steep.
Some are more private and protective of their users than others.
Probably - Nord has a good rep in that regard. I'll do my research
before the next flip which is ... ugh, this coming Feb... <sigh>
Yes, it appears Nord's no-logs policy has been verified by independent
auditors, which is also the case for Proton's VPN service. But I do
recall Nord VPN being breached a few years ago. I'm sure they've beefed
up security since then. I prefer Proton anyway since I use them for
other services.
I've had Proton Mail since ... sheesh, a damned long time!
I'll try to remember them when VPN switch time comes.
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are
so steep.
I'll try to remember them when VPN switch time comes.
I've enjoyed it for a few years now. They have a really cool Secure Core feature which routes your VPN traffic through secure servers in
countries with strong data privacy laws before connecting to secondary
VPN servers, essentially doubling your privacy and making it that much
harder to discover your network activity:
<https://protonvpn.com/secure-vpn/secure-core>
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are
so steep.
The Brits recognize some of them as VPN numbers and keep locking you out
of the BBC stuff you want to see.
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
Apple only full supports a single release - and no other release but that. >> If you can't upgrade to that single release - full support disappears.
I love the weasel word: "full[y]"
On 2023-10-06 21:13, Alan Browne wrote:
I just default to GNOME - haven't used other desktops in ages.
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you a
lot!
That's ancient :-p
He switched to XFCE on 2014 but I don't follow what he does.
/I/ did not say support "every OS they've made...", like Windows 95,
W7, W10, W11.... I said that I update every computer. I can usually
update every computer to another release of the same (or other)
operating system. That is the sense of my saying I expect support for ever.
But a phone sold with Android 10 stays on Android 10, can not be updated
to 11, 12, 13... In some cases you get an update to the next version and that's it.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are
so steep.
The Brits recognize some of them as VPN numbers and keep locking you out
of the BBC stuff you want to see.
I disagree with Alan Browne's (supposed) logic, but I do agree with the experience of The Real Bev in that one by one, VPNs & proxies are blocked, (specifically by cloudflare in my humble experiences lately with proxies).
The bad news is many VPNs & proxies are blocked by entities like the BBC.
The good news is there are thousands upon thousands of free VPN servers.
I wrote up multiple tutorials on how to set up a free VPN server on your Android, Windows or Linux device so you can look them up in the archives.
As for Alan Browne's comment, it's as ridiculous as the lady who buys
jewelry because it's marked down 50% as the discount % isn't what matters.
Classic though for an iKook to fall for every marketing trick in the book. (Do none of these iKooks have an MBA, perchance? It's covered there.)
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to see
how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter. First thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his own editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to see
how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter. First
thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his own
editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
From what I remember, he didn't like all the infighting.
Classic though for an iKook to fall for every marketing trick in the book. >> (Do none of these iKooks have an MBA, perchance? It's covered there.)
Right, you have to be super careful on what the % is based on. (%
increase? % compared to previous? etc)
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
Classic though for an iKook to fall for every marketing trick in the book. >>> (Do none of these iKooks have an MBA, perchance? It's covered there.)
Right, you have to be super careful on what the % is based on. (%
increase? % compared to previous? etc)
A classic marketing trick, particularly in the jewelry business, which has the concept of low volume & high prices - is to double or triple the price.
Then "sell" it at that outrageous price for a while until suddenly...
*You have a sale!*
Sale! Only Today! 50% off all jewelry in the store! Come & get it!
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 13:42:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
/I/ did not say support "every OS they've made...", like Windows 95,
W7, W10, W11.... I said that I update every computer. I can usually
update every computer to another release of the same (or other)
operating system. That is the sense of my saying I expect support for ever.
The guy you're responding to obviously doesn't know how Microsoft, for
years and years, has allowed you to upgrade to the next OS for free.
On 10/6/23 22:18, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you >>>> a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to see >> how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter. First >> thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his own
editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
From what I remember, he didn't like all the infighting.
On 10/6/23 2:42 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I just
watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers off of
that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are
so steep.
The Brits recognize some of them as VPN numbers and keep locking you out
of the BBC stuff you want to see.
On 2023-10-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 19:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:56, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I >>>>>> just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers >>>>>> off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from >>>>>> and the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the
discounts are so steep.
Some are more private and protective of their users than others.
Probably - Nord has a good rep in that regard. I'll do my research
before the next flip which is ... ugh, this coming Feb... <sigh>
Yes, it appears Nord's no-logs policy has been verified by independent
auditors, which is also the case for Proton's VPN service. But I do
recall Nord VPN being breached a few years ago. I'm sure they've beefed
up security since then. I prefer Proton anyway since I use them for
other services.
I've had Proton Mail since ... sheesh, a damned long time!
I don't know of any really comparable mail service in terms of privacy.
I'll try to remember them when VPN switch time comes.
I've enjoyed it for a few years now. They have a really cool Secure Core feature which routes your VPN traffic through secure servers in
countries with strong data privacy laws before connecting to secondary
VPN servers, essentially doubling your privacy and making it that much
harder to discover your network activity:
On 10/6/23 22:18, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you >>>> a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to
see how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter.
First thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his
own editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
From what I remember, he didn't like all the infighting.
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to see
how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter. First thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his own editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you
a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to see
how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter. First thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his own editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
On 10/6/23 8:48 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 10/6/23 22:18, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you >>>>> a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to
see how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that
matter. First thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was
write his own editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
From what I remember, he didn't like all the infighting.
I would have thought that he would be above all that. A "not my
problem" thing.
On 2023-10-06 18:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against usage
of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies. Which
in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
The s/w (Office installed on our computers) is not suspect at all as it
is not an online or cloud service. So - it's very easy for the
suspicious (like our IT department who are charged to be obsessive to
the point of annoying everyone) to monitor its behaviour. It is innocent.
'nuff of this for me!
On 2023-10-07 02:30, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 18:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against
usage of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies. Which
in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
The s/w (Office installed on our computers) is not suspect at all as
it is not an online or cloud service. So - it's very easy for the
suspicious (like our IT department who are charged to be obsessive to
the point of annoying everyone) to monitor its behaviour. It is
innocent.
Yes, it is suspect of espionage and some governments prohibit it. :-p
...
'nuff of this for me!
Ok :-)
On 2023-10-06 23:18, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you >>>> a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to see >> how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that matter. First >> thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was write his own
editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
I believe he's more a kernel kind of guy and the notion of him "writing
a desktop" is probably not interesting to him. If you believe "writing
a desktop" is on the order of a text editor ...
Other comments he's made are along the lines that (referring to your "so
many to choose from") the wide variety and fractious nature of the
desktops is actually a bad thing for Linux - the community needs to pull together into the one true desktop.
I recall reading some time back that there had been attempts to merge
Gnome and KDE (or something like that) so that in the end only one major desktop environment would emerge - but it got mired in power plays of
some sort.
(This is super vague so whatever the real deal was ...).
On 2023-10-06 22:41, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/6/23 2:42 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is up I just >>> watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored offers off of
that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and
the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are >>> so steep.
The Brits recognize some of them as VPN numbers and keep locking you out
of the BBC stuff you want to see.
I haven't watched BBC directly in a long time - don't even recall if I
used a VPN.
What show are you trying to watch? I'll give it a go. (I still have a
BBC account - but it may have timed out).
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
On 10/7/23 6:21 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 23:18, The Real Bev wrote:
On 10/6/23 2:22 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <B%YTM.4498$_z39.3010@fx34.iad>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Note: even Torvald doesn't like Linux desktops. That should tell you >>>>> a lot!
Torvalds is not a typical Linux user.
What doesn't he like? There are so many to choose from it's hard to
see how he couldn't find even ONE. Or write his own, for that
matter. First thing my husband did when we got the micro in 1977 was
write his own editor. Surely Linus could write a desktop...
I believe he's more a kernel kind of guy and the notion of him "writing
a desktop" is probably not interesting to him. If you believe "writing
a desktop" is on the order of a text editor ...
"Real programmers" can do an amazing amount of stuff if they really want
what they're building. I live with two of them. If he wanted one he
could do it.
Other comments he's made are along the lines that (referring to your "so
many to choose from") the wide variety and fractious nature of the
desktops is actually a bad thing for Linux - the community needs to pull
together into the one true desktop.
Different people want different things. My husband and I finish each other's sentences, but we couldn't possibly share a computer. He hates
the way my mouse works; I think his is inefficient. Our xterms are completely different. He's willing to use the website for gmail, for chrissake :-( And that's just for starters!
I want the OS to handle the hardware without my attention. All of it. Having to wrestle (flailing about with inappropriate weapons) with the
damn printer when our IP address changed was a revelation. BUT I want
every single thing about the GUI to be configurable. I don't think I
can have that :-(
Still - I might splurge on Final Cut Pro - now that it's settled down
into a capable editor - when I buy the new Mac.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
On 10/5/23 19:12, Jolly Roger wrote:
My graphics needs are luckily not as demanding as they used to be, but
I've been using Serif's Affinity replacements for Photoshop,
Illustrator, and InDesign for a while now and they get the job done for
way less money and no subscription. I love that there are plenty of
options for those of us who refuse to funnel our budget at Adobe
indefinitely.
I think having competent apps at a *reasonable price for individuals* is important, so good job for finding that!
dir /w .\software\editor\pic
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
I wish I wanted to do something that complex with my photos. I've used
and liked Irfanview on windows and really like Picasa on linux -- 30
seconds or less per photo and I'm happy. I wanted to fix the
perspective on a tall-building shot with GIMP once and ultimately
succeeded, but it was pretty painful. GIMP's idea of 'help' is... problematical.
On Oct 7, 2023, Wally J wrote
(in article <ufs0c2$2fflu$1@dont-email.me>):
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.
It’s probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me :-) >>>Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in PS
that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
When I made the switch from Windows (with CorelDraw) to Linux, I was
amazed at how good Gimp was, considering the price difference.
The problem with free software is you often get what you pay for.
On 2023-10-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Any reputable VPN that doesn't log traffic is good enough. Nice if
they are audited.
Proton's mission statement on mail privacy is why I have an account
there and that they are in a prosperous, independent and neutral
country that is mildly obsessed with privacy helps a lot.
And since my mail service with them is free, at least if I pay for a
VPN there, they'll get some revenue for their good to me. OTOH: It's
more expensive than Nord by a good chunk. ($173 v. $121 for 2 years).
(The $121 being what I paid last time).
We are lucky enough to have a Visionary account with Proton, which means
we get everything they have to offer at the highest limits, including
any new services and products they release.
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.
It's probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.
On 2023-10-06 20:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 19:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:56, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-10-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-10-06 16:31, The Real Bev wrote:
I think NORD gives the best bang for the buck.
I currently have Nord with no complaints.
As to bang for the buck, when the 2 year (or whatever) term is
up I just watch a few YouTube videos and shop the best sponsored >>>>>>> offers off of that.
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose
from and the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why
the discounts are so steep.
Some are more private and protective of their users than others.
Probably - Nord has a good rep in that regard. I'll do my
research before the next flip which is ... ugh, this coming Feb...
<sigh>
Yes, it appears Nord's no-logs policy has been verified by
independent auditors, which is also the case for Proton's VPN
service. But I do recall Nord VPN being breached a few years ago.
I'm sure they've beefed up security since then. I prefer Proton
anyway since I use them for other services.
I've had Proton Mail since ... sheesh, a damned long time!
I don't know of any really comparable mail service in terms of
privacy.
I'll try to remember them when VPN switch time comes.
I've enjoyed it for a few years now. They have a really cool Secure
Core feature which routes your VPN traffic through secure servers in
countries with strong data privacy laws before connecting to
secondary VPN servers, essentially doubling your privacy and making
it that much harder to discover your network activity:
Any reputable VPN that doesn't log traffic is good enough. Nice if
they are audited.
Proton's mission statement on mail privacy is why I have an account
there and that they are in a prosperous, independent and neutral
country that is mildly obsessed with privacy helps a lot.
And since my mail service with them is free, at least if I pay for a
VPN there, they'll get some revenue for their good to me. OTOH: It's
more expensive than Nord by a good chunk. ($173 v. $121 for 2 years).
(The $121 being what I paid last time).
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been. >>It's probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.
Not even close.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
I've never felt the need to use Photoshop. Gimp make wonders for me
:-)
Because you have no idea how little GIMP is v. PS - at least for
photographers, editors and designers. They need and use features in
PS that don't exist for GIMP.
It's comical how limited GIMP is in comparison. And don't even get
started on Photoshop's more recent AI-driven functionality, which is
frankly amazing in terms of productivity enhancement.
The GIMP is a wondrous tool - but hard to use for people like JR.
What's also wonderful - just as free - and easy to use - is Paint.NET.
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have
been.
On 10/6/23 22:11, Wally J wrote:
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote
When it comes to VPN's there are plenty of companies to choose from and >>>> the offerings are pretty much the same. Which is why the discounts are >>>> so steep.
The Brits recognize some of them as VPN numbers and keep locking you out >>> of the BBC stuff you want to see.
I disagree with Alan Browne's (supposed) logic, but I do agree with the
experience of The Real Bev in that one by one, VPNs & proxies are
blocked,
(specifically by cloudflare in my humble experiences lately with
proxies).
The bad news is many VPNs & proxies are blocked by entities like the BBC.
The good news is there are thousands upon thousands of free VPN servers.
Crazy how companies nowadays can just force you to give up privacy to
use their stuff.
Krita works on Linux (as I recall) but it's not as good as is Paint.NET.
<https://krita.org/en/download/krita-desktop/>
While I have tested _every_ free Windows (and Linux, in the olden days)
image editor, CAD editor, video editor, audio editor, format converter, screen recorder, etc., I've settled, over the years, mostly on the
following good free tools...
1. Image viewer = IrfanView (batch commands are great)
2. Image editor = Paint.NET (puts PhotoShop to shame)
3. CAD editor = Blender (well maintained & fully functional)
4. Video editor = ShotCut (more tutorials than you can shake a stick at)
5. Audio editor = Who wouldn't use Audacity to edit audio files
6. Screen recorder = Tossup between CuteScreenRec & OBSStudio mostly
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.
How does it compare to ffmpeg?
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.
How does it compare to ffmpeg?
Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.
Easy to install any of the common Linux distros on an unrooted Android.
<https://andronix.app/>
5. NewPipe (YouTube replacement, ripper & downloader on steroids)
<https://newpipe.net/>
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
Still - I might splurge on Final Cut Pro - now that it's settled down
into a capable editor - when I buy the new Mac.
It's no longer shocking that the ignorant iKooks know absolutely nothing about video editing tools out there - and there is a good reason for that.
Do you know why the Mac users _never_ have any idea of competitive tools?
I do.
HINT: *Low-IQ iKooks never read news - they are driven only by marketing*.
DOUBLEHINT:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?&q=final+cut+pro+download>
<https://appmus.com/vs/final-cut-pro-vs-shotcut>
<https://www.shotcut.org/download/>
On Oct 7, 2023, Wally J wrote
(in article <ufs0c2$2fflu$1@dont-email.me>):
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
The freeware Paint.NET Windows program is what PhotoShop should have been.
Its probably what Photoshop was about 20 years ago.
WebView is impossible to uninstall because it is system software and
comes pre-installed on Android devices.'
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and
perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
Sorry but free video editors ...
Why would I ever want to do this? I have MULTIPLE computers that I could use instead. Ubuntu Convergence was a failure for this reason: nobody wants to use their phone as a desktop.
On 2023-10-07 17:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and
perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
:-?
They don't show in my installs.
On 10/7/23 23:03, Wally J wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.
How does it compare to ffmpeg?
Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.
Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing for anything more than a simple conversion.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
The problem with free software is you often get what you pay for.
That's one of the _dumbest_ concept I've ever heard anyone utter, Alan.
(and yes, I have an MBA)
Very few people understand these low-IQ iKooks as well as I do,
where _that statement_ is classic for their herd mentality decision making.
It never fails that the low-IQ uneducated ignorant iKooks fall for every marketing trick in the book - where you _never_ get what you pay for.
On 2023-10-07 09:38, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 02:30, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 18:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against
usage of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies.
Which in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
The s/w (Office installed on our computers) is not suspect at all as
it is not an online or cloud service. So - it's very easy for the
suspicious (like our IT department who are charged to be obsessive to
the point of annoying everyone) to monitor its behaviour. It is
innocent.
Yes, it is suspect of espionage and some governments prohibit it. :-p
Cite with specifics related to Word/Excel/PowerPoint.
...
'nuff of this for me!
Ok :-)
Doh!
On 2023-10-08 07:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 17:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and
perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
:-?
They don't show in my installs.
Please clarify what you mean by multiple desktops. Do you mean
different environments (akin to Gnome, KDE...), or do you mean desktops (workspaces) that can be switched such that you view, example a "work" desktop with appropriate apps open and "home" desktop with other apps open.
On 2023-10-07 15:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-07 09:38, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 02:30, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 18:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against
usage of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies.
Which in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
The s/w (Office installed on our computers) is not suspect at all as
it is not an online or cloud service. So - it's very easy for the
suspicious (like our IT department who are charged to be obsessive
to the point of annoying everyone) to monitor its behaviour. It is
innocent.
Yes, it is suspect of espionage and some governments prohibit it. :-p
Cite with specifics related to Word/Excel/PowerPoint.
Google it, is easy to find, unless you are USAian :-p
On 2023-10-08 14:37, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-08 07:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 17:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a >>>>> single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and >>>> perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
:-?
They don't show in my installs.
Please clarify what you mean by multiple desktops. Do you mean
different environments (akin to Gnome, KDE...), or do you mean
desktops (workspaces) that can be switched such that you view, example
a "work" desktop with appropriate apps open and "home" desktop with
other apps open.
Worskpaces.
On 2023-10-08 09:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 15:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-07 09:38, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 02:30, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 18:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against >>>>>>>> usage of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies.
Which in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
The s/w (Office installed on our computers) is not suspect at all
as it is not an online or cloud service. So - it's very easy for
the suspicious (like our IT department who are charged to be
obsessive to the point of annoying everyone) to monitor its
behaviour. It is innocent.
Yes, it is suspect of espionage and some governments prohibit it. :-p
Cite with specifics related to Word/Excel/PowerPoint.
Google it, is easy to find, unless you are USAian :-p
Your claim. You put it up.
On 2023-10-08 15:19, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-08 09:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 15:43, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-07 09:38, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 02:30, Alan Browne wrote:Cite with specifics related to Word/Excel/PowerPoint.
On 2023-10-06 18:47, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 00:08, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-06 17:54, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Hey, I would advise any customer with need for secrecy against >>>>>>>>> usage of any Microsoft product :-p
Has no effect on the exchange of documents between companies.
Which in some cases occurs within PGP or occasionally AES.
Has no effect when the software itself is suspect.
The s/w (Office installed on our computers) is not suspect at all
as it is not an online or cloud service. So - it's very easy for >>>>>> the suspicious (like our IT department who are charged to be
obsessive to the point of annoying everyone) to monitor its
behaviour. It is innocent.
Yes, it is suspect of espionage and some governments prohibit it. :-p >>>>
Google it, is easy to find, unless you are USAian :-p
Your claim. You put it up.
China has banned the use of Microsoft's latest operating system on
government computers. Beijing issued the restriction as part of a decree about the use of energy-saving products. But official news agency Xinhua
said security concerns related to foreign operating systems had led to
the move.May 20, 2014
China bans Microsoft Windows 8 on government computers
Reports coming out of China suggest that Chinese central government has issued a ban on Microsoft's Office software in parts of the Central government and its subordinate departments. The move follows on from the Windows 8 ban on central government systems in May earlier this year.
China Cracks Down On Microsoft: Bans Microsoft Office In ...
https://prednyslm.eu/en/french-government-has-banned-the-use-of-microsoft-365/
https://nextcloud.com/blog/europe-steps-up-fight-for-digital-sovereignty-bans-365-and-workspace-in-more-places/
https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252527842/Microsoft-365-banned-in-German-schools-over-privacy-concerns
On 2023-10-07 17:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
:-?
They don't show in my installs.
On 10/5/23 13:05, Wally J wrote:
These iKooks make it sound like it's hard to get rid of the stuff that Microsoft would love for you to leave in, by default, upon setup.
For an iKook, who is used to not being able to conrol the OS, it's difficult; but for a normal adult of normal intelligence it's easy.
You just say "no" to the switches that ask you in the beginning setup.
With Android, all you need is local adb (or adb running on a PC).
To be fair, from what I have heard you need to do registry edits to get
rid of everything invasive, it takes a while to remove all the bloat,
and some of it gets reinstalled during updates.
To be fair, from what I have heard you need to do registry edits to get
rid of everything invasive, it takes a while to remove all the bloat,
and some of it gets reinstalled during updates.
On 2023-10-08 01:38, candycanearter07 wrote:
On 10/7/23 23:03, Wally J wrote:
candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> wrote
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.
How does it compare to ffmpeg?
Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.
Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing
for anything more than a simple conversion.
Handbrake can hand you back the confusion: install the command line
version. (HandbrakeCLI).
I use this as called by a program I wrote sometime back to mass
convert some containers (esp .avi) to .mp4 with h.254 or h.255.
On 2023-10-07 17:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows
doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a
single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and
perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
:-?
They don't show in my installs.
<Sarcasm=7>These 'niche' applications of smartphones are what make them superior to iPhone. </Sarcasm>
7. Format converter = Handbrake superseded Super long ago for me
etc.
How does it compare to ffmpeg?
Nothing wrong with ffmpeg. But Handbrake has a great GUI.
Fair 'nuff. ffmpeg is a Swiss army knife, but it's super confusing for anything more than a simple conversion.
your previous claim (with which I probably agree) goes moot the
instant you continue with you diatribe on "ikooks".
On 2023-10-08 09:05, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-08 14:37, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-10-08 07:49, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-10-07 17:50, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]
[Only addressing this one point:]
In fact, the Linux desktop has features, for decades, that Windows >>>>>> doesn't have; for example, on Windows I feel constrained by having a >>>>>> single desktop. On Linux I have as many as I want.
I don't know about "as many as I want", but Windows 11 and 10 (and >>>>> perhaps earlier) have multiple desktops.
[...]
:-?
They don't show in my installs.
Please clarify what you mean by multiple desktops. Do you mean
different environments (akin to Gnome, KDE...), or do you mean
desktops (workspaces) that can be switched such that you view, example
a "work" desktop with appropriate apps open and "home" desktop with
other apps open.
Worskpaces.
Pretty standard in Windows as "task view" back to at least Win 7.
On 10/8/23 07:20, Alan Browne wrote:
<Sarcasm=7>These 'niche' applications of smartphones are what make
them superior to iPhone. </Sarcasm>
nitpick, but that's not how HTML works right? wouldn't it be like
<sarcasm power=7>
I'm glad the European and American patents expired for ffmpeg as it was a PITA to have to use lame or download the compiled executables separately.
Directory of C:\app\editor\vid\youtube-dl
11/25/2018 04:51 PM 40,929,280 ffmpeg.exe
11/25/2018 04:51 PM 40,816,128 ffplay.exe
11/25/2018 04:52 PM 40,838,144 ffprobe.exe
Likewise, I can't wait for Qualcomm's 5G modem design patents to expire so that the incompetent Apple chip design team can just copy the damn thing.
To respond in a way that helps others, I use yt-dlp now that youtube-dl has its issues - where we had a huuuuuuge discussion about this recently in
that the ClipGrab GUIs on all platforms but iOS uses that yt-dlp engine.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClipGrab>
On all my platforms, except on iOS (which can't do thousands upon thousands upon thousands of things all other platforms do), there's that d/l GUI.
<https://clipgrab.org/>
Also, I'd recommend using yt-dlp instead if it's available.
On iOS... there's no GUI for that.
To respond in a way that helps others, I use yt-dlp now that youtube-dl has its issues - where we had a huuuuuuge discussion about this recently in
that the ClipGrab GUIs on all platforms but iOS uses that yt-dlp engine.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClipGrab>
Sorry to hijack this thread for another test. As I recall PhoNews chopped
off all crossposts, perhaps a problem, perhaps not in some ways. Anyway
this thread is posted to 2 groups so lets see if it chops one off with this post..
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