Man forced to ditch $115K Ford EV truck during family road trip to
Chicago: 'biggest scam of modern times'
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
Published August 10, 2023 7:41pm EDT
A Canadian man is calling electric vehicles the "biggest scam of
modern times" after his frustrating experience with an electric truck.
Dalbir Bala, who lives in the Winnipeg area, bought a Ford F150
Lightning EV in January for $115,000, plus tax. He told FOX Business
he needed the vehicle for his work, but also wanted something suitable
for recreational activities such as driving to his cabin or going
fishing. He also wanted an environmentally friendly vehicle as owning
one is "responsible citizenship these days."
But Bala was quickly hit with the reality of owning and operating an
EV soon after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two
charges - one at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate
the charger, he had to upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
In all, Bala spent more than $130,000 - plus tax.
Not long after the purchase, Bala got into a minor accident which, he
said, required "light assembly" on the front bumper. Bala took the
vehicle to the body shop and did not get it back for six months. He
said no one from Ford answered his email or phone calls for help.
The limitations of the EV truck became even more apparent when Bala
embarked on a chaotic 1,400-mile road trip to Chicago.
Fast charging stations - which only charge EV's up to 90% - cost more
than gas for the same mileage. On the family's first stop in Fargo,
North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10%
to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles.
On the second stop, in Albertville, Minnesota, the free charger was
faulty and the phone number on the charging station was of no help, he
said. The family drove to another charging station in Elk River,
Minnesota, but the charger was faulty there as well.
"This sheer helplessness was mind-boggling," Bala wrote in an online
post. "My kids and wife were really worried and stressed at this
point."
There were no other fast charging stations within range of Elk River
and his vehicle only had 12 miles left.
"By now it was late afternoon. We were really stuck, hungry, and heartbroken," Bala said.
Bala ultimately had the vehicle towed to a Ford dealership in Elk
River and rented a regular gas vehicle to complete the family's trip
to Chicago. The family picked up the F150 on their way back to
Winnipeg.
"It was in [the] shop for 6 months. I can't take it to my lake cabin.
I cannot take it for off-grid camping. I cannot take for even a road
trip," Bala wrote. "I can only drive in city - biggest scam of modern
times."
Bala told FOX Business he believes the government needs to do more to "provide consumers with the right information."
"People have to make the right choices. I want to tell everybody to
read my story," he said. "Do your research before even thinking about
it and make a wiser choice."
"The actual thing they promised is not even close. Not even 50%. And
once you buy it, you're stuck with it and you have to carry huge
losses to get rid of that. And nobody is there to help you."
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-tr uck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
Voice of REASON <reason@anon.net> wrote in news:ub42hm$1hj7a$1@news.mixmin.net:
Man forced to ditch $115K Ford EV truck during family road trip to
Chicago: 'biggest scam of modern times'
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
Published August 10, 2023 7:41pm EDT
A Canadian man is calling electric vehicles the "biggest scam of
modern times" after his frustrating experience with an electric truck.
Dalbir Bala, who lives in the Winnipeg area, bought a Ford F150
Lightning EV in January for $115,000, plus tax. He told FOX Business
he needed the vehicle for his work, but also wanted something suitable
for recreational activities such as driving to his cabin or going
fishing. He also wanted an environmentally friendly vehicle as owning
one is "responsible citizenship these days."
But Bala was quickly hit with the reality of owning and operating an
EV soon after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two
charges - one at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate
the charger, he had to upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
In all, Bala spent more than $130,000 - plus tax.
Not long after the purchase, Bala got into a minor accident which, he
said, required "light assembly" on the front bumper. Bala took the
vehicle to the body shop and did not get it back for six months. He
said no one from Ford answered his email or phone calls for help.
The limitations of the EV truck became even more apparent when Bala
embarked on a chaotic 1,400-mile road trip to Chicago.
Fast charging stations - which only charge EV's up to 90% - cost more
than gas for the same mileage. On the family's first stop in Fargo,
North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10%
to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles.
On the second stop, in Albertville, Minnesota, the free charger was
faulty and the phone number on the charging station was of no help, he
said. The family drove to another charging station in Elk River,
Minnesota, but the charger was faulty there as well.
"This sheer helplessness was mind-boggling," Bala wrote in an online
post. "My kids and wife were really worried and stressed at this
point."
There were no other fast charging stations within range of Elk River
and his vehicle only had 12 miles left.
"By now it was late afternoon. We were really stuck, hungry, and
heartbroken," Bala said.
Bala ultimately had the vehicle towed to a Ford dealership in Elk
River and rented a regular gas vehicle to complete the family's trip
to Chicago. The family picked up the F150 on their way back to
Winnipeg.
"It was in [the] shop for 6 months. I can't take it to my lake cabin.
I cannot take it for off-grid camping. I cannot take for even a road
trip," Bala wrote. "I can only drive in city - biggest scam of modern
times."
Bala told FOX Business he believes the government needs to do more to
"provide consumers with the right information."
"People have to make the right choices. I want to tell everybody to
read my story," he said. "Do your research before even thinking about
it and make a wiser choice."
"The actual thing they promised is not even close. Not even 50%. And
once you buy it, you're stuck with it and you have to carry huge
losses to get rid of that. And nobody is there to help you."
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/man-forced-ditch-115k-ford-ev-tr
uck-family-road-trip-chicago-biggest-scam-modern-times
I have a trendy neighbor who bought a Ford F150 EV for work. He's not too happy with it. He is a general contractor and sometimes runs bags of
sand, rock, cement to project sites. His biggest complaint is the lack of guts getting up hills loaded, and he's on his second set of brakes from
the extra vehicle weight.
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - one
at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
I have a trendy neighbor who bought a Ford F150 EV for work. He's not too >happy with it. He is a general contractor and sometimes runs bags of
sand, rock, cement to project sites. His biggest complaint is the lack of >guts getting up hills loaded, and he's on his second set of brakes from
the extra vehicle weight.
Man forced to ditch $115K Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago: >'biggest scam of modern times'
Bala told FOX Business he believes the government needs to do more to >"provide consumers with the right information."
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - one >> at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to >> upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK
On 8/11/2023 10:44 AM, Unum wrote:
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - one >>> at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to
upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the
charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK
It does no good to present evidence to rebut rage. It will always be ignored or explained away.
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - one >> at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to >> upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK
Unum wrote:
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - one >>> at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to
upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the
charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK
Cheap Chinese shit. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
On 8/15/2023 8:15 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
Unum wrote:
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges
- one
at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger,
he had to
upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the
charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK >>>
Cheap Chinese shit. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
Its the cheapest charger on Amazon. There are dozens under $500.
So they don't cost $5,000 apiece after all, lieboy?
Why not guestimate the cost of permitting, main panel expansion, 240V
50A home runs, outdoor panels, terminals, local, fire underwriters and
UL close-out inspections, and time to completion?
Easily $10K
On 8/16/2023 12:32 AM, Unum wrote:
On 8/15/2023 8:15 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
Unum wrote:
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - >>>>> one
at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he >>>>> had to
upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the >>>> charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK >>>>
Cheap Chinese shit. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
Its the cheapest charger on Amazon. There are dozens under $500.
So they don't cost $5,000 apiece after all, lieboy?
Why not guestimate the cost of permitting, main panel expansion, 240V 50A home runs, outdoor panels, terminals, local, fire underwriters and UL close-out inspections, and time to completion?
Easily $10K and four to six months, here, for only the home facilities.
Now do the office.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:56:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Why not guestimate the cost of permitting, main panel expansion, 240V
50A home runs, outdoor panels, terminals, local, fire underwriters and
UL close-out inspections, and time to completion?
Siemens' new home EV charger adapter ends need for electrical panel
upgrades
https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/
Cheap, Simple, At-Home EV Charging for the Masses https://gearjunkie.com/motors/cheap-simple-home-ev-charging
Easily $10K
Bullshit....
'In theory, you can buy the ConnectDER collar today in certain areas, but you probably can’t install it yourself. Unfortunately, the product has to be approved for use on a state-by-state basis, and it can even differ for individual electricutilities. You’ll probably still need a licensed electrician to install it.'
Like some crow with it?
'In theory, you can buy the ConnectDER collar today in certain areas,but you probably can't install it yourself. Unfortunately, the product
has to be approved for use on a state-by-state basis, and it can even
differ for individual electric utilities.
You'll probably still need a licensed electrician to install it.'
Good luck with the landlord
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Like some crow with it?
'In theory, you can buy the ConnectDER collar today in certain areas,but you probably can't install it yourself. Unfortunately, the product
has to be approved for use on a state-by-state basis, and it can even
differ for individual electric utilities.
You'll probably still need a licensed electrician to install it.'
No Crow here....with these "smart electric meters," if a person
removes it, the electric utility will know, and in my area, give you a $500.00 "ticket." Utility company must be informed first.
Installation takes less than an hour, and estimated cost around
$500.00 total for a basic install.
With electrical equipment, usually the State/City/Utility determines
what they approve of for usage. Product is new, and has been used in
Solar industry....they are upgrading their plant to produce them for
EV industry.
Coming Soon....
On 8/16/2023 12:32 AM, Unum wrote:
On 8/15/2023 8:15 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
Unum wrote:
On 8/10/2023 8:22 PM, Voice of REASON wrote:
By Bradford Betz | FOXBusiness
This lets you know the article is bullshit.
after the purchase. The vehicle compelled him to install two charges - one
at work and one at home - for $10,000. To accommodate the charger, he had to
upgrade his home's electric panel for $6,000.
You can buy a fast charger on Amazon for $200 that will let you set the >>>> charge rate to match your panel.
https://www.amazon.com/GODIAG-14-50-Level-Charger-Portable/dp/B0C2CB6VMK >>>>
Cheap Chinese shit. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
Its the cheapest charger on Amazon. There are dozens under $500.
So they don't cost $5,000 apiece after all, lieboy?
Why not guestimate the cost of permitting, main panel expansion, 240V 50A home
runs, outdoor panels, terminals, local, fire underwriters and UL close-out inspections, and time to completion?
Easily $10K and four to six months, here, for only the home facilities. Now do
the office.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over? >>>
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination panel,
240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire insurance,
over a period of months.
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
Go back to rec.sport.golf, eh?
Did you sell your 'extra' F1 tickets yet? Get on it, or eat them, too.
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits,
Makes one wonder how the power grid will support the added demand of every >home and office having EV chargers with the current infrastructure which
can barely keep up right now.
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination panel,
240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire insurance,
over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all of those?
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over? >>>
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:56:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Why not guestimate the cost of permitting, main panel expansion, 240V
50A home runs, outdoor panels, terminals, local, fire underwriters and
UL close-out inspections, and time to completion?
Siemens' new home EV charger adapter ends need for electrical panel
upgrades
https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/
Cheap, Simple, At-Home EV Charging for the Masses https://gearjunkie.com/motors/cheap-simple-home-ev-charging
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 21:20:37 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
Makes one wonder how the power grid will support the added demand of every >>home and office having EV chargers with the current infrastructure which >>can barely keep up right now.
Why lasers could help make the electric grid greener
Sensors can help utilities get real-time data on their power lines,
which can allow them to send more renewable electricity through the
wires. This tech is part of a suite of innovations that could help the
U.S. increase its grid capacity faster and cheaper than building new transmission lines.
...
...
With this tech, called "dynamic line rating", utilities are able to
increase the efficiency of their lines - sometimes as much as 40%,
says Gentle.
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/13/1187620367/power-grid-enhancing-technologies-climate-change
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
On 8/16/2023 1:58 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Like some crow with it?
'In theory, you can buy the ConnectDER collar today in certain areas,but you probably can't install it yourself. Unfortunately, the product
has to be approved for use on a state-by-state basis, and it can even
differ for individual electric utilities.
You'll probably still need a licensed electrician to install it.'
No Crow here....with these "smart electric meters," if a person
removes it, the electric utility will know, and in my area, give you a
$500.00 "ticket." Utility company must be informed first.
Installation takes less than an hour, and estimated cost around
$500.00 total for a basic install.
With electrical equipment, usually the State/City/Utility determines
what they approve of for usage. Product is new, and has been used in
Solar industry....they are upgrading their plant to produce them for
EV industry.
Coming Soon....
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine, plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire inspections,
plus fire insurance
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job?
You'll be charging on your lawn, near the meter, right?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus licensed
electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination panel, 240V home
runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire insurance, over a period
of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over? >>>>
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after 30k. With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all of
those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over? >>>>
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
Makes one wonder how the power grid will support the added demand of every home and office having EV chargers with the current infrastructure which
can barely keep up right now. It’s not like more nuclear power stations are getting built. Is solar power going to provide all the extra power
needed for charging private and commercial EVs? How expensive will electricity become when natural gas and oil become outlawed?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 17:39:11 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits,
One needs to do more research on this topic.
Sure, there will always be people who will spend much more than other
for a home EV charger setup.
I live in a rural location with no codes, and here, just the cost of
an electrical box, weather proof outlet, and some wiring. Maybe in the
low $100.00 range, or less. I've got 200amp service...no issue here.
Others might spend in $6k range to upgrade their electrical panel,
etc.
But, with Siemens' new home EV charger coming soon, this will greatly
reduce installation cost for those who can use it.
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message news:ubj4jm$3bj4a$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/16/2023 1:58 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Like some crow with it?
'In theory, you can buy the ConnectDER collar today in certain areas, >>>> but you probably can't install it yourself. Unfortunately, the product >>>> has to be approved for use on a state-by-state basis, and it can evendiffer for individual electric utilities.
You'll probably still need a licensed electrician to install it.'
No Crow here....with these "smart electric meters," if a person
removes it, the electric utility will know, and in my area, give you a
$500.00 "ticket."Â Utility company must be informed first.
Installation takes less than an hour, and estimated cost around
$500.00 total for a basic install.
With electrical equipment, usually the State/City/Utility determines
what they approve of for usage. Product is new, and has been used in
Solar industry....they are upgrading their plant to produce them for
EV industry.
Coming Soon....
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job?
You'll be charging on your lawn, near the meter, right?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
Then you still have to figure out how to run this exposed conduit to
where the charger will actually be.. that's going to be at least $1K and
more if you want to 'hide' it. Yea, having an ugly electrical conduit
runs over your siding is going to look so good. Plus it creates a whole
news additional expense each time you have to do anything with the
siding in that area. The best part is now the electric company can
decide when and if you can charge. Might wake up in the morning and find
you still have 2% charge. I wonder if your boss will understand?
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
I understand the CEO of ford just tried taking one of their new EV
Trucks on a trip.. and had a very rude awakening as to the reality and limitations of driving an EV... let's just say, he was very unhappy with their product.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and OCCUPIED
home.
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all of
those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all of
those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all
of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical contractor in yours, IDIOT.
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE FACT
and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubiuta$3cft3$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 09:56:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Why not guestimate the cost of permitting, main panel expansion, 240V
50A home runs, outdoor panels, terminals, local, fire underwriters and
UL close-out inspections, and time to completion?
Siemens' new home EV charger adapter ends need for electrical panel
upgrades
https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/
Cheap, Simple, At-Home EV Charging for the Masses
https://gearjunkie.com/motors/cheap-simple-home-ev-charging
Problem. You need permission of the utility company to install, you now have >an unsightly conduit running around the exterior of the home and it
prohibits you from installing a meter base that allows to hook up emergency >power via the same means.
In short, it's fix of a sort, but with massive shortcomings that still >doesn't address the issues of where this power is going to come from >particularly in times of excessive demand.
It's a workaround for the inherent problems and limits of EV that doesn't >really address the fundamental issues.
Then you still have to figure out how to run this exposed conduit to where >the charger will actually be.. that's going to be at least $1K
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
The market will be begging for more 'traditional' nuclear plants
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 21:20:37 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
Makes one wonder how the power grid will support the added demand of every >>>home and office having EV chargers with the current infrastructure which >>>can barely keep up right now.
Why lasers could help make the electric grid greener
Sensors can help utilities get real-time data on their power lines,
which can allow them to send more renewable electricity through the
wires. This tech is part of a suite of innovations that could help the
U.S. increase its grid capacity faster and cheaper than building new
transmission lines.
...
...
With this tech, called "dynamic line rating", utilities are able to
increase the efficiency of their lines - sometimes as much as 40%,
says Gentle.
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/13/1187620367/power-grid-enhancing-technologies-climate-change
Which does nothing to change the fact that the supply isn't there.
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it >>>>>> will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine, >>>>> plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all over? >>>>>
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after 30k. With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
On 8/17/2023 12:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:13, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus >>>>>>> licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination >>>>>>> panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire >>>>>>> insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all >>>>>> of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical
contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our club
(the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough to be an
instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus licensed >>> electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination panel, 240V home >>> runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire insurance, over a period >>> of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and OCCUPIED home.
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:13, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus >>>>>>>> licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination >>>>>>>> panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire >>>>>>>> insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack... >>>>>>>
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for
all of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical
contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our club
(the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough to be an
instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
Second fastest driver in my class around Mission Raceway, Sunshine. And
that includes against a former SCCA Runoffs champion.
:-)
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
You're the one with all the idiotic hypothetical charges.
:-)
On 8/17/2023 1:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:13, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits,
plus licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and
termination panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack... >>>>>>>>
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for >>>>>>>> all of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical
contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our club
(the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough to be
an instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
Second fastest driver in my class around Mission Raceway, Sunshine.
And that includes against a former SCCA Runoffs champion.
:-)
Slowest of two, Great job, sunshine.
On 2023-08-17 06:59, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and OCCUPIED
home.
Different... ...not "far" different.
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical >contractor in yours, IDIOT.
On 8/17/2023 1:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
You're the one with all the idiotic hypothetical charges.
:-)
Lick your fingers, asshole.
Makes one wonder how the power grid will support the added demand of every home and office having EV chargers with the current infrastructure which
can barely keep up right now. It’s not like more nuclear power stations are getting built. Is solar power going to provide all the extra power
needed for charging private and commercial EVs? How expensive will electricity become when natural gas and oil become outlawed?
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
Of course if you rent or live in a condo that's not even an option...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from rain, all is good.
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess you're >just shit outta luck...
I understand the CEO of ford just tried taking one of their new EV Trucks on >a trip.. and had a very rude awakening as to the reality and limitations of >driving an EV... let's just say, he was very unhappy with their product.
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >one...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install one...
I understand the CEO of ford just tried taking one of their new EV Trucks
on a trip.. and had a very rude awakening as to the reality and
limitations of driving an EV... let's just say, he was very unhappy with
their product.
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it >>>>>> will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine, >>>>> plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all
over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after 30k.
With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
On 2023-08-17 06:59, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination panel, >>>> 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire insurance,
over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and OCCUPIED
home.
Different... ...not "far" different.
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>> one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE FACT
and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:13:59 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical
contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Have you discussed these feelings of insecurity with your counselor?
Swill
On 2023-08-17 10:51, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 1:49 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed? >>>>>>>
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE >>>>>> FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
You're the one with all the idiotic hypothetical charges.
:-)
Lick your fingers, asshole.
LOL!
You're so owned by me, it's HILARIOUS.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublg3p$3r264$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install one...
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to do
so.. I guess you're just SOL.
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I want
to see how well that charger works when you install it for your
on-street parking and someone starts using YOUR power to charge THEIR
car, or simply blocks you from parking there.
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE FACT >>>> and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
You're the one with all the idiotic hypothetical charges.
:-)
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublg5a$3r264$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Great, I'm sure your wife will be just thrilled as you move those range
out into the middle of the floor so you can unhook it to hook in the
cable going to your charger and then run that cable through the house,
and let's not forget you will be unable to close the door or window
you're going to feed that cable through. Then in the morning, you get to
get up early and put it all back, or it's going to be a cold breakfast because the range isn't hooked up.
Any other stupidity you would like to display?
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message news:ublbvh$3q7sv$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it >>>>>>> will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine, >>>>>> plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all >>>>>> over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation.
Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after
30k. With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
Hell even if the electricity and charging were free.. you still would
not have recovered the extra cost over those 25K miles.
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublh72$3r5fh$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Sure, and all you need is deep enough pockets.
Well Alan your 150Amp panel wont support this load given your current electrical system, so we're going to have to upgrade to a 200-225 Amp
panel, then we have to update all the wiring to current code as required
by the electrical code
Next we will need to tear down parts of your walls to run the cable, and correct the wiring as necessary. and then install a subpanel and the associated wiring for the charger. We need zoning approval, the house
can not be occupied between when the work starts as that would be
illegal with no electrical power and then the government inspectors have
to approve the work and the power company finally returns to restore
power once they get all the necessary documents and certifications. So
you will have to find somewhere else to stay for about 1-2 weeks, but it could be as much as 3 weeks and initial estimate will be $12K-$20K for
job. But we can't even touch the job until you get a permit and
authorization to have this work performed, and perform a full electrical audit to determine the full scope of work to be performed which will
cost $1,200. At last check the permit department has a 4-6 week back
log... What? You already sold your old car, and you need the charger installed this weekend? Ever consider getting a bicycle?
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
If you don't have an electric stove.. then you don't have the high
capacity plug there to use.... even if you could.
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from rain, all is good.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublmin$3s0db$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
No, it's not, when you have a finished and occupied structure.
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Got a cite for that?
I'm betting you can't even find the NEC.
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Speaks the qualified electrician?
<snort>
On 8/17/2023 3:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Got a cite for that?
I'm betting you can't even find the NEC.
Local code supersedes NEC. Look that up, amateur 'licensed electrician.'
On 8/17/2023 3:33 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Speaks the qualified electrician?
<snort>
Speaks the been there, done the 240V sub-panels and upgrades, consumer.
See your local code, if you can find it.
On 2023-08-17 12:37, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:33 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>> guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>> install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician >>>>>> connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - >>>>>> pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected >>>>>> from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Speaks the qualified electrician?
<snort>
Speaks the been there, done the 240V sub-panels and upgrades, consumer.
Speaks the guy who literally did the construction drawings for a new
home build.
:-)
See your local code, if you can find it.
The BC Electrical Code is actually (as of October 1, 2022) the 'Canadian Electrical Code, Part I, 25th Edition, Safety Standard for Electrical Installations, Canadian Standards Association Standard C22.1-21'
<https://www.csagroup.org/store-resources/documents/codes-and-standards/CSA_C22.1_21_Index.pdf>
On 8/17/2023 3:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 12:37, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:33 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>>> guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>>> install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician >>>>>>> connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money >>>>>>> - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's
protected from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Speaks the qualified electrician?
<snort>
Speaks the been there, done the 240V sub-panels and upgrades, consumer.
Speaks the guy who literally did the construction drawings for a new
home build.
:-)
See your local code, if you can find it.
The BC Electrical Code is actually (as of October 1, 2022) the
'Canadian Electrical Code, Part I, 25th Edition, Safety Standard for
Electrical Installations, Canadian Standards Association Standard
C22.1-21'
<https://www.csagroup.org/store-resources/documents/codes-and-standards/CSA_C22.1_21_Index.pdf>
Good for you, canuck. Irrelevant below the parallel. Have a nice day.
On 2023-08-17 13:32, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 12:37, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:33 PM, Alan wrote:Speaks the guy who literally did the construction drawings for a new
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, >>>>>>>>>> I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an
electrician install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the
electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money >>>>>>>> - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's
protected from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Speaks the qualified electrician?
<snort>
Speaks the been there, done the 240V sub-panels and upgrades, consumer. >>>
home build.
:-)
See your local code, if you can find it.
The BC Electrical Code is actually (as of October 1, 2022) the
'Canadian Electrical Code, Part I, 25th Edition, Safety Standard for
Electrical Installations, Canadian Standards Association Standard
C22.1-21'
<https://www.csagroup.org/store-resources/documents/codes-and-standards/CSA_C22.1_21_Index.pdf>
Good for you, canuck. Irrelevant below the parallel. Have a nice day.
You're the one who wanted to make it an issue, Sunshine...
...just like you wanted to spout off about the NEC...
...before you made it obvious that you were talking bullshit.
On 8/17/2023 4:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 13:32, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 12:37, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:33 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, >>>>>>>>>>> I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an
electrician install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the
electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and
money - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's
protected from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
NOPE.
Speaks the qualified electrician?
<snort>
Speaks the been there, done the 240V sub-panels and upgrades,
consumer.
Speaks the guy who literally did the construction drawings for a new
home build.
:-)
See your local code, if you can find it.
The BC Electrical Code is actually (as of October 1, 2022) the
'Canadian Electrical Code, Part I, 25th Edition, Safety Standard for >>>> Electrical Installations, Canadian Standards Association Standard
C22.1-21'
<https://www.csagroup.org/store-resources/documents/codes-and-standards/CSA_C22.1_21_Index.pdf>
Good for you, canuck. Irrelevant below the parallel. Have a nice day.
You're the one who wanted to make it an issue, Sunshine...
...just like you wanted to spout off about the NEC...
...before you made it obvious that you were talking bullshit.
I didn't raise the NEC issue, I raised the local code issue.
NEC isn't even relevant to Canada, as you agreed, idiot.
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message
news:ublbvh$3q7sv$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it >>>>>>>> will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility fine, >>>>>>> plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire >>>>>>> inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all >>>>>>> over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation. >>>>
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after
30k. With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
Hell even if the electricity and charging were free.. you still would
not have recovered the extra cost over those 25K miles.
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
On 2023-08-17 10:48, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg6b$3r264$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:59, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and
OCCUPIED home.
Different... ...not "far" different.
Really? No carpet?
No carpet on the ceiling of a basement...
...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or
noise?
For a day or two's work? Nope.
No need to worry about getting the place dirty while doing the
job?
Hire professionals who clean up after themselves.
No issues with drywall, because there is none installed yet? How
about repainting? And if the job takes an extra 3 days.. you don't have
people screaming about how they can't stay at the hotel anymore because
the rooms in the area are all booked for the big event this weekend and
you will have no place to stay?
You are utterly full of shit.
Yea, none of those would EVER be a factor.. right?
Nevermind shutting off the power for days on end.
"days on end".
Half an hour. Tops.
Do all the work back TO the panel...
...have everything done except the actual connection to the mains...
...then turn off the main breaker in the home for the actual hookup.
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:59:31 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus licensed >>>> electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination panel, 240V home >>>> runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire insurance, over a period >>>> of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and OCCUPIED home.
I don't see why that's a problem. My dad installed an electric dryer and a drainage
system for the washer separate from the septic for this house. He dug the drain field
himself. Cut and sealed the hole for the drain pipe. Neighbor next door is an
electrician and since the box was in the same room as the dryer, installing the 240 was a
snap. he also ran a new circuit to the back porch which was subsequently enclosed to
become a family and dining room.
Well Alan your 150Amp panel wont support this load given your current >electrical system, so we're going to have to upgrade to a 200-225 Amp panel, >then we have to update all the wiring to current code as required by the >electrical code
On 8/17/2023 1:58 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:13:59 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical
contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Have you discussed these feelings of insecurity with your counselor?
Swill
Quintuple your dose and wink out, 'pal.'
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to do so.. I >guess you're just SOL.
Great, I'm sure your wife will be just thrilled as you move those range out >into the middle of the floor so you can unhook it to hook in the cable going >to your charger and then run that cable through the house, and let's not >forget you will be unable to close the door or window you're going to feed >that cable through. Then in the morning, you get to get up early and put it >all back, or it's going to be a cold breakfast because the range isn't
hooked up.
Any other stupidity you would like to display?
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I want to
see how well that charger works when you install it for your on-street >parking and someone starts using YOUR power to charge THEIR car, or simply >blocks you from parking there.
On 8/17/23 13:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>> one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from rain, all is good.
Would that meet NEC requirements?
On 2023-08-17 12:36, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 3:26 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:40, News wrote:Local code supersedes NEC. Look that up, amateur 'licensed electrician.'
On 8/17/2023 2:31 PM, David Hartung wrote:Got a cite for that?
Would that meet NEC requirements?NOPE.
I'm betting you can't even find the NEC.
The question was specifically whether it would "meet NEC requirements", >Sunshine.
You answered with absolute certainty that it would not.
And from this answer, it is plain to see that you have never once ever
seen the NEC.
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>> one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but perhaps.
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:24:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>>> one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but perhaps.
That's how our ac is wired.
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:50:26 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message >>news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess you're >>just shit outta luck...
Cite that statistic since I already know it's bullshit.
I understand the CEO of ford just tried taking one of their new EV Trucks on >>a trip.. and had a very rude awakening as to the reality and limitations of >>driving an EV... let's just say, he was very unhappy with their product.
"3 things I HATE about my Rivian R1T after 10,000 miles" ><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg&t=403s>
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>> one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect
between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but perhaps.
On 2023-08-17 10:27, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg3p$3r264$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>> one...
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to do
so.. I guess you're just SOL.
1. It's not very expensive to have a plain-old 240/220 volt outlet
installed. Sorry, but it's basic electric work.
2. Getting permission to do so isn't hard.
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I want to
see how well that charger works when you install it for your on-street
parking and someone starts using YOUR power to charge THEIR car, or
simply blocks you from parking there.
I never claimed it was an answer for everyone, but it's an answer for many people.
And you want to pretend that because it won't work for everyone, it's useless.
On 2023-08-17 16:37, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:24:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre >>>> dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from >>>> rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
That's how our ac is wired.
That may be... ...but lots of things get done that don't conform to
code...
...or that don't conform once the code has been amended.
On 2023-08-17 10:29, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg5a$3r264$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Great, I'm sure your wife will be just thrilled as you move those range
out into the middle of the floor so you can unhook it to hook in the
cable going to your charger and then run that cable through the house,
and let's not forget you will be unable to close the door or window
you're going to feed that cable through. Then in the morning, you get to
get up early and put it all back, or it's going to be a cold breakfast
because the range isn't hooked up.
Any other stupidity you would like to display?
What makes you think that because it's the same TYPE of plug you'd use for
a stove, that I'm suggesting you use the same physcal OUTLET for both purposes?
Now that's stupidity.
I'm pointing out that this is basic wiring that any competent electrician
can complete.
It doesn't require special skills or special permits.
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range [or a Level 2 EV charger] is not really any harder than wiring a standard
outlet, but it can cost more because the electrician may need to run
conduit, reorganize circuit breakers in the main panel, or install a new circuit breaker. The electrician will price his work according to the
length of cable that needs to be run and the amount of labor time he anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-1152463>
'The cost to run electricity to a shed, garage, or shop is $10 to $25 per linear foot or $500 to $3,800 on average for 50 to 150 feet of underground line.'
<https://homeguide.com/costs/cost-to-run-electric-to-garage-shed-or-shop>
So your numbers are bullshit.
On 2023-08-17 11:45, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublmin$3s0db$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use >>>>>>>>>>> a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed? >>>>>>>
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE >>>>>> FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
No, it's not, when you have a finished and occupied structure.
Yes, it is.
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range is
not really any harder than wiring a standard outlet, but it can cost more because the electrician may need to run conduit, reorganize circuit
breakers in the main panel, or install a new circuit breaker. The
electrician will price his work according to the length of cable that
needs to be run and the amount of labor time he anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-115246>
On 2023-08-17 10:44, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublh72$3r5fh$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE FACT >>>> and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Sure, and all you need is deep enough pockets.
Well Alan your 150Amp panel wont support this load given your current
electrical system, so we're going to have to upgrade to a 200-225 Amp
panel, then we have to update all the wiring to current code as required
by the electrical code
Cite, please!
Next we will need to tear down parts of your walls to run the cable, and
correct the wiring as necessary. and then install a subpanel and the
associated wiring for the charger. We need zoning approval, the house can
not be occupied between when the work starts as that would be illegal
with no electrical power and then the government inspectors have to
approve the work and the power company finally returns to restore power
once they get all the necessary documents and certifications. So you will
have to find somewhere else to stay for about 1-2 weeks, but it could be
as much as 3 weeks and initial estimate will be $12K-$20K for job. But we
can't even touch the job until you get a permit and authorization to have
this work performed, and perform a full electrical audit to determine the
full scope of work to be performed which will cost $1,200. At last check
the permit department has a 4-6 week back log... What? You already sold
your old car, and you need the charger installed this weekend? Ever
consider getting a bicycle?
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
I think that you have not a single actual fact to back up that pile of bullshit.
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
If you don't have an electric stove.. then you don't have the high
capacity plug there to use.... even if you could.
How stupid are you to think I'm suggesting you would use THAT PARTICULAR PLUG?
I'm suggesting that the 240/220V receptacle you need for a plug-in Level 2
EV charger is completely standard electrical work...
...because it is.
On 2023-08-17 10:48, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg6b$3r264$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:59, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus
licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination
panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire
insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and OCCUPIED >>>> home.
Different... ...not "far" different.
Really? No carpet?
No carpet on the ceiling of a basement...
...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?
For a day or two's work? Nope.
No need to worry about getting the place dirty while doing the job?
Hire professionals who clean up after themselves.
No issues with drywall, because there is none installed yet? How about
repainting? And if the job takes an extra 3 days.. you don't have people
screaming about how they can't stay at the hotel anymore because the
rooms in the area are all booked for the big event this weekend and you
will have no place to stay?
You are utterly full of shit.
Yea, none of those would EVER be a factor.. right?
Nevermind shutting off the power for days on end.
"days on end".
Half an hour. Tops.
On 8/17/2023 1:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:13, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus >>>>>>>>> licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination >>>>>>>>> panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire >>>>>>>>> insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack... >>>>>>>>
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all >>>>>>>> of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical
contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our club
(the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough to be an
instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
Second fastest driver in my class around Mission Raceway, Sunshine. And
that includes against a former SCCA Runoffs champion.
:-)
Slowest of two, Great job, sunshine.
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message
news:ublbvh$3q7sv$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its available, it >>>>>>>> will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility
fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire >>>>>>> inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables all >>>>>>> over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation. >>>>
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after 30k. >>>> With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
Hell even if the electricity and charging were free.. you still would not
have recovered the extra cost over those 25K miles.
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
On 2023-08-17 10:50, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 1:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:13, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus >>>>>>>>>> licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination >>>>>>>>>> panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire >>>>>>>>>> insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack... >>>>>>>>>
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for all >>>>>>>>> of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur electrical >>>>>> contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our club >>>>> (the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough to be an >>>>> instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
Second fastest driver in my class around Mission Raceway, Sunshine. And
that includes against a former SCCA Runoffs champion.
:-)
Slowest of two, Great job, sunshine.
LOL!
Riiiiiiiiight. There've only ever been two Formula Fords (now officially "Formula F") to ever drive at Mission!
LOL!
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublrfn$3sqta$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:27, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg3p$3r264$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install one...
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to do
so.. I guess you're just SOL.
1. It's not very expensive to have a plain-old 240/220 volt outlet
installed. Sorry, but it's basic electric work.
2. Getting permission to do so isn't hard.
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I
want to see how well that charger works when you install it for your
on-street parking and someone starts using YOUR power to charge THEIR
car, or simply blocks you from parking there.
I never claimed it was an answer for everyone, but it's an answer for
many people.
It's not even an answer for many people. It's really only an answer for
a very small minority of people.
And you want to pretend that because it won't work for everyone, it's
useless.
No, I'm saying that for the overwhelming majority of people it wont
serve their needs nearly as well as an ordinary ICE.
Cost for one. I mean how many people can afford a brand new luxury
priced car without wrecking their finances?
I mean heck, they can't afford to pay student loans or rent.. but they
can get a new luxury car?
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubmpqj$49q4$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 16:37, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 12:24:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money -
pre dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
That's how our ac is wired.
That may be... ...but lots of things get done that don't conform to
code...
Hmm. Great. And when you have a fault that burns down some of your house
and the insurance won't cover it because it was caused by something you rigged up.....
Then what?
...or that don't conform once the code has been amended.
No, but it does have to conform to the code at the time it was
installed. Which right now would probably be then NEC 2020-2023
depending on adoption dates by local agencies.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublroe$3sqta$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:29, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg5a$3r264$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Great, I'm sure your wife will be just thrilled as you move those
range out into the middle of the floor so you can unhook it to hook
in the cable going to your charger and then run that cable through
the house, and let's not forget you will be unable to close the door
or window you're going to feed that cable through. Then in the
morning, you get to get up early and put it all back, or it's going
to be a cold breakfast because the range isn't hooked up.
Any other stupidity you would like to display?
What makes you think that because it's the same TYPE of plug you'd use
for a stove, that I'm suggesting you use the same physcal OUTLET for
both purposes?
To do otherwise would violate the NEC 210.23 the only exception would be
to unplug one appliance to plug in another NEC 210.23C
I'm pointing out that this is basic wiring that any competent
electrician can complete.
If they were competent they would turn you down flat.
It doesn't require special skills or special permits.
No, just risking their license and a boat load of liability.
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range
[or a Level 2 EV charger] is not really any harder than wiring a
standard outlet, but it can cost more because the electrician may need
to run conduit, reorganize circuit breakers in the main panel, or
install a new circuit breaker. The electrician will price his work
according to the length of cable that needs to be run and the amount
of labor time he anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-1152463>
A low power outlet or switch is a far different thing than a high
powered load run to the other end of the house.
See what you're talking about could be done simply by patching any to
any accessible branch or lighting circuit in the area.
What you want, however is going to require a run ALL THE WAY TO THE MAIN BREAKER BOX WITH A HEAVY GAUGE CABLE.
Apples and Oranges.
'The cost to run electricity to a shed, garage, or shop is $10 to $25
per linear foot or $500 to $3,800 on average for 50 to 150 feet of
underground line.'
<https://homeguide.com/costs/cost-to-run-electric-to-garage-shed-or-shop>
Again.. a low power feeder hooked into an accessible 15-20a branch circuit.
So your numbers are bullshit.
No, my number are reality. Now if you want to install a 120V 5amp
charger.. that could be done for the prices you're talking about.
Anything more than that.. and your price is going to go up.. a lot.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublrtv$3sqta$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:44, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublh72$3r5fh$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE
FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Sure, and all you need is deep enough pockets.
Well Alan your 150Amp panel wont support this load given your current
electrical system, so we're going to have to upgrade to a 200-225 Amp
panel, then we have to update all the wiring to current code as
required by the electrical code
Cite, please!
Load calculations.
Builders don't install bigger more expensive power
panels unless they have to.. and it's going to be a cost extra. Which
means you probably aren't going to have enough extra to add a 240V 50A
long term draw to most existing breaker panels. At least not without
risking a lot of nuance trips of the main breaker.. which have a pretty
short trip life and replacements are expensive.
Next we will need to tear down parts of your walls to run the cable,
and correct the wiring as necessary. and then install a subpanel and
the associated wiring for the charger. We need zoning approval, the
house can not be occupied between when the work starts as that would
be illegal with no electrical power and then the government
inspectors have to approve the work and the power company finally
returns to restore power once they get all the necessary documents
and certifications. So you will have to find somewhere else to stay
for about 1-2 weeks, but it could be as much as 3 weeks and initial
estimate will be $12K-$20K for job. But we can't even touch the job
until you get a permit and authorization to have this work performed,
and perform a full electrical audit to determine the full scope of
work to be performed which will cost $1,200. At last check the permit
department has a 4-6 week back log... What? You already sold your old
car, and you need the charger installed this weekend? Ever consider
getting a bicycle?
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
I think that you have not a single actual fact to back up that pile of
bullshit.
Other than having done it.
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
If you don't have an electric stove.. then you don't have the high
capacity plug there to use.... even if you could.
How stupid are you to think I'm suggesting you would use THAT
PARTICULAR PLUG?
because otherwise you would be in violation of the NEC.
I mean you did claim to be a competent electrician right?
I'm suggesting that the 240/220V receptacle you need for a plug-in
Level 2 EV charger is completely standard electrical work...
...because it is.
Sure, it is completely normal.. requiring a dedicated home run to the
breaker panel, and a possible main service panel upgrade which would
then require an upgrade of all existing wiring to current code
requirements. That's just one of those things that happens when you
change out the main breaker panel.
Why do you think so many shitty and even dangerous breaker panels are
still in service.. because people can't afford the cost of all the
additional work that might be necessary to replace it.
But feel free to do it yourself, and if you have a fire that could in
any way be blamed on an illegal electrical change.. you can be sure the insurance company will use that to deny you any benefits.
Now if you were talking running a 15/20 amp 120v line for a lvl 1
charger you could probably do that cheaper though you would still
require a home run and space for a dedicated breaker.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ublsfs$3sqta$8@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:45, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublmin$3s0db$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:17 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed? >>>>>>>>
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER
THE FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in
a home, right?
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
Go back to rec.sport.golf and put it in the rough, there.
LOL
Your hypotheticals, DULLARD.
No. Simple facts.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.
No, it's not, when you have a finished and occupied structure.
Yes, it is.
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range
is not really any harder than wiring a standard outlet, but it can
cost more because the electrician may need to run conduit, reorganize
circuit breakers in the main panel, or install a new circuit breaker.
The electrician will price his work according to the length of cable
that needs to be run and the amount of labor time he anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-115246>
During construction, sure.
Afterwards in an occupied home.. add a zero to the end at minimum
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ubls2v$3sqta$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:48, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg6b$3r264$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:59, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus >>>>>>> licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination >>>>>>> panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire >>>>>>> insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack...
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and
OCCUPIED home.
Different... ...not "far" different.
Really? No carpet?
No carpet on the ceiling of a basement...
If you have a basement that would make it much easier. However, most
homes don't have an unfinished basement anymore.
...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?
For a day or two's work? Nope.
Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No need to worry about getting the place dirty while doing the job?
Hire professionals who clean up after themselves.
And professionals are going to charge you for that. and the more they
have to clean up, and the harder it is to do so, and the risk of making something dirty which can't be cleaned up.. increases the price.
TINSTAAFL.
No issues with drywall, because there is none installed yet? How
about repainting? And if the job takes an extra 3 days.. you don't
have people screaming about how they can't stay at the hotel anymore
because the rooms in the area are all booked for the big event this
weekend and you will have no place to stay?
You are utterly full of shit.
Whatever you say cupcake. Because if you're going to remain in the
house.. the price will be even higher.
Yea, none of those would EVER be a factor.. right?
Nevermind shutting off the power for days on end.
"days on end".
Half an hour. Tops.
Then you should get out there and become a licensed electrician and show
them how it's done.
The only way you could do it in 30 minutes would be if it were new construction.
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message news:ublmm0$3q8q7$3@dont-email.me...
On 8/17/2023 1:48 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 10:18, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:19 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 09:13, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 12:00 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 07:50, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:47 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if >>>>>>>>>>>>> needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, >>>>>>>>>> plus licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and
termination panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire
inspections, plus fire insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack... >>>>>>>>>
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
<https://plumblineservices.com/help-guides/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-a-220v-outlet-for-my-electric-dryer>
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for >>>>>>>>> all of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur
electrical contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our
club (the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough
to be an instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
Second fastest driver in my class around Mission Raceway, Sunshine.
And that includes against a former SCCA Runoffs champion.
:-)
Slowest of two, Great job, sunshine.
Don't forget he's also in the slowest class... making him the slowest
driver there.
Why do you imagine you automatically have additional costs for >>>>>>>>>> all of those?
Or will it be a DIY shade-tree job, sparky?
If it came to it, I could do it and do it right.
:-)
Next up, 'wace dwiber' is a constitutional law expert.
FOAD or EASD, your choice of demise.
LOL
You are a quite the big man in your mind, aren't you?
:-)
And you are quite the 'wace dwiber', duffer, and amateur
electrical contractor in yours, IDIOT.
Simple face, Sunshine.
I'm not just a road racing driver. The very best drivers in our
club (the oldest road racing club in Canada) voted me good enough
to be an instructor.
So I could literally school you...
...if you weren't so very unpleasant.
That would be the day, OAF.
Second fastest driver in my class around Mission Raceway, Sunshine.
And that includes against a former SCCA Runoffs champion.
:-)
Slowest of two, Great job, sunshine.
LOL!
Riiiiiiiiight. There've only ever been two Formula Fords (now
officially "Formula F") to ever drive at Mission!
LOL!
and neither one was driven by you.
Yea, none of those would EVER be a factor.. right?
Nevermind shutting off the power for days on end.
"days on end".
Half an hour. Tops.
Then you should get out there and become a licensed electrician and
show them how it's done.
The only way you could do it in 30 minutes would be if it were new
construction.
Install from the receptacle backward.
Have everything installed and THEN turn off the power long enough to
make the connections to the mains.
How long do you think it takes to make 4 connections?
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message
news:ublbvh$3q7sv$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its
available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility >>>>>>>> fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire >>>>>>>> inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables >>>>>>>> all over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it.
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation. >>>>>
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after
30k. With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
Hell even if the electricity and charging were free.. you still would
not have recovered the extra cost over those 25K miles.
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
On 2023-08-18 06:43, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
"News" <News@Group.Name> wrote in message
news:ublbvh$3q7sv$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/17/2023 4:19 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 15:59:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
On 8/16/2023 3:47 PM, Governor Swill wrote:Where you finding gasoline for sixty cents a gallon?
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 8/16/2023 1:59 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 13:30:51 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
Good luck with the landlord
I am the landlord....renter ask for one, and when its
available, it
will be installed.
'when it's available', if ever
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500 -- plus utility >>>>>>>>> fine,
plus local permit, plus licensed electrician, plus local/UL/fire >>>>>>>>> inspections, plus fire insurance
Or will it be another DIY shade-tree job? Probably!
Facilitating charging near the meter, right? Snaking HV cables >>>>>>>>> all over?
Good luck, sparky!
LMAO.
The twenty tanks of gas you won't have to buy will pay for it. >>>>>>>>
Swill
No CAPEX, 125 tank fills, 50,000 driving miles, for the installation. >>>>>>
Your charge kilowatts are 'free' or subsidized, right, sparky?
Remarkable how EV 'economics' are cherry-picked.
They make you feel good and 'green' though, don't they?
A Rivian, including charger and electricity costs goes green after >>>>>> 30k. With solar
charging, at 25k. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg>
Swill
Some people will believe anything. Keep drinking that swill.
Hell even if the electricity and charging were free.. you still would
not have recovered the extra cost over those 25K miles.
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly >>
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Princess, I've been following cars for just about forever.
"EVs burn through tires 30% faster than combustible engine cars"
A typical car has a tire life of at LEAST 60,000 miles, so "30% faster"
(your source, snowflake) would be a life of 42,000 miles.
So at 25K you are nowhere NEAR your second set.
Next:
"Dubbed the Turanza EV, it starts at $289"
So a third of that would be about $96.
"It's now available at Bridgestone retailers in the US and Canada and at >sites like TireRack.com."
So let's look! Apples to apples, right?
The lowest price tires for a Tesla Model 3 in the factory size of
235/40ZR19 are $153 (Laufen S FIT AS)
The Bridgestone Turanza EV in that size are $285.
<https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake=Tesla&autoYear=2023&autoModel=Model+3+RWD&autoModClar=235/40-19&width=235/&ratio=40&diameter=19&sortCode=57261&skipOver=true&minSpeedRating=V&minLoadRating=XL&performance=ALL>
Now maybe when you're trunk 285/153 equals "3 times the cost"...
...but in the sober world that would be "less than 2 times the cost"
So cost per 12,000 miles (oft cited as average usage a year) looks
something like:
Laufen S FIT AS: 4 * $153/60 * 12 = $122 per 12K
Turanza EV: 4*285/42 * 12 = $326 per 12K
So that works out to a little less than an extra $4 per week.
And that's only if you compare it to the cheapest pieces of shite
TireRack sells.
Further requests will be ignored.
Run away, little man!
And professionals are going to charge you for that. and the more they have
to clean up, and the harder it is to do so, and the risk of making something >dirty which can't be cleaned up.. increases the price.
On 2023-08-18 06:32, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
On 2023-08-17 11:45, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wroteYes, it is.
Running a 220/240 outlet is a simple electrical job.No, it's not, when you have a finished and occupied structure.
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range
is not really any harder than wiring a standard outlet, but it can
cost more because the electrician may need to run conduit, reorganize
circuit breakers in the main panel, or install a new circuit breaker.
The electrician will price his work according to the length of cable
that needs to be run and the amount of labor time he anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-115246>
During construction, sure.
Afterwards in an occupied home.. add a zero to the end at minimum
Sorry, but that website is talking about the cost of it as an UPGRADE TO
AN EXISTING HOME.
'but it can cost more because the electrician may need to run conduit, >reorganize circuit breakers in the main panel, or install a new circuit >breaker.'
How can that part of the sentence have any meaning in a new construction >situation?
The article is called "Common Electrical Projects and How Much They
Cost" and goes on to discuss things that "homeowners" might want to have >done.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>before promoting the latest geewhiz techThen there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly >>
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
You're still on track to be the most ignorant poster on Usenet!
Swill
On 2023-08-18 06:38, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls2v$3sqta$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:48, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg6b$3r264$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:59, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjg5s$3eskd$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:39, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:25 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, stick your fingers in your DIY socket. Good luck.
Who said anything about "DIY"?
Costs of cherry-picked 'cheap' charger, plus local permits, plus >>>>>>>> licensed electrician for 240V sub-panel, conduit and termination >>>>>>>> panel, 240V home runs, plus local/UL/fire inspections, plus fire >>>>>>>> insurance, over a period of months.
I licensed electrician to install a standard 240/220 wall jack... >>>>>>>
...just like they install for electric stoves and dryers.
Which are done when the home is under construction..
Far different issue when you're starting with a completed and
OCCUPIED home.
Different... ...not "far" different.
Really? No carpet?
No carpet on the ceiling of a basement...
If you have a basement that would make it much easier. However, most
homes don't have an unfinished basement anymore.
You seem to be an expert on everything...
...but that's a common failing when people are drunk.
...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?
For a day or two's work? Nope.
Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt or >noise"?
LOL!
No need to worry about getting the place dirty while doing the job?
Hire professionals who clean up after themselves.
And professionals are going to charge you for that. and the more they
have to clean up, and the harder it is to do so, and the risk of making
something dirty which can't be cleaned up.. increases the price.
TINSTAAFL.
Professionals quote the job INCLUDING the cleanup.
No issues with drywall, because there is none installed yet? How
about repainting? And if the job takes an extra 3 days.. you don't
have people screaming about how they can't stay at the hotel anymore
because the rooms in the area are all booked for the big event this
weekend and you will have no place to stay?
You are utterly full of shit.
Whatever you say cupcake. Because if you're going to remain in the
house.. the price will be even higher.
To run an electrical circuit???
LOL!
Yea, none of those would EVER be a factor.. right?
Nevermind shutting off the power for days on end.
"days on end".
Half an hour. Tops.
Then you should get out there and become a licensed electrician and show
them how it's done.
The only way you could do it in 30 minutes would be if it were new
construction.
Install from the receptacle backward.
Have everything installed and THEN turn off the power long enough to
make the connections to the mains.
How long do you think it takes to make 4 connections?
Load calculations. Builders don't install bigger more expensive power panels >unless they have to.. and it's going to be a cost extra. Which means you >probably aren't going to have enough extra to add a 240V 50A long term draw >to most existing breaker panels. At least not without risking a lot of
nuance trips of the main breaker.. which have a pretty short trip life and >replacements are expensive.
To do otherwise would violate the NEC 210.23 the only exception would be to >unplug one appliance to plug in another NEC 210.23C
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
I think that you have not a single actual fact to back up that pile of
bullshit.
Other than having done it.
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes.
Cost for one. I mean how many people can afford a brand new luxury priced
car without wrecking their finances?
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician install >>>> one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician connect >>> between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the basis >of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost estimates
where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a conversation in
usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 14:17:24 -0400, Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:50:26 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message >>>news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess you're >>>just shit outta luck...
Cite that statistic since I already know it's bullshit.
<final Jeopardy theme>
In message <uboej5$c4dc$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with >> > the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly
doing jack rabbit starts and slamming on the brakes.
Exactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for maybe >> 10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the shit out
of my grandson. Lovely. Everything else, especially the stupid touch
screen, is crap.
I bought an EV in April. It's fabulous, including the touch screen.
I will never go back to petrol. Ever.
The regenerative braking has encouraged me to become a slightly gentler driver. I still love the acceleration, but I decelerate more gently.
One of the benefits of a powerful EV is that you get better deceleration
too, without wasting energy.
In message <uboej5$c4dc$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with >>> the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly
doing jack rabbit starts and slamming on the brakes.
Exactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for maybe >> 10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the shit out
of my grandson. Lovely. Everything else, especially the stupid touch
screen, is crap.
I bought an EV in April. It's fabulous, including the touch screen.
I will never go back to petrol. Ever.
The regenerative braking has encouraged me to become a slightly gentler driver. I still love the acceleration, but I decelerate more gently.
One of the benefits of a powerful EV is that you get better deceleration
too, without wasting energy.
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly
doing jack rabbit starts and slamming on the brakes.
Exactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for maybe
10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the shit out
of my grandson. Lovely. Everything else, especially the stupid touch screen, is crap.
In message <uboej5$c4dc$1@dont-email.me>What EV ??
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with >> > the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly
doing jack rabbit starts and slamming on the brakes.
Exactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for maybe >> 10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the shit out
of my grandson. Lovely. Everything else, especially the stupid touch
screen, is crap.
I bought an EV in April. It's fabulous, including the touch screen.
I will never go back to petrol. Ever.
The regenerative braking has encouraged me to become a slightly gentler >driver. I still love the acceleration, but I decelerate more gently.
One of the benefits of a powerful EV is that you get better deceleration
too, without wasting energy.
David
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly >>
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
On 8/18/23 12:34 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <uboej5$c4dc$1@dont-email.me>
          The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so takenwith
the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantlyExactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for
doing jack rabbit starts and slamming on the brakes.
maybe
10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the shit
out
of my grandson. Lovely.  Everything else, especially the stupid touch
screen, is crap.
I bought an EV in April. It's fabulous, including the touch screen.
Residual uncorrectable asitigmatism means nothing is EVER sharp and
screens require too much eye-time away from the road. Not to mention
making sure I tap the right thing. I can't imagine anyone using a menu system to drive a car even with hawk-like vision.
I will never go back to petrol. Ever.
For the foreseeable future, electric cars just transfer the CO2 etc. elsewhere. Fine with me, there's no way we can cut enough to make up
for the rest of the world even if man-made CO2 IS the problem.
The regenerative braking has encouraged me to become a slightly gentler
driver. I still love the acceleration, but I decelerate more gently.
I take my foot off the gas a considerable distance before the stop sign;
 I know people who have only two modes, though -- gas and brake. And
they know better :-(
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 20:34:35 +0100, David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
I bought an EV in April. It's fabulous, including the touch screen. I
will never go back to petrol. Ever.
The regenerative braking has encouraged me to become a slightly gentler driver. I still love the acceleration, but I decelerate more gently.
One of the benefits of a powerful EV is that you get better deceleration too, without wasting energy.
DavidWhat EV ??
For the foreseeable future, electric cars just transfer the CO2 etc. elsewhere. Fine with me, there's no way we can cut enough to make up
for the rest of the world
even if man-made CO2 IS the problem.
In message <uboitf$cniq$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
For the foreseeable future, electric cars just transfer the CO2 etc.
elsewhere. Fine with me, there's no way we can cut enough to make up
for the rest of the world
Not true today, and getting further from the truth as time goes on and increasing amounts of electricity are generated from renewables.
But once a petrol car, always a petrol car.
even if man-made CO2 IS the problem.
Which it IS. The science dates back as far as 1824. Yep, next year
will be the bicentenary.
And it's not just the CO2, it's the oxides of nitrogen and the fine particulates. That stuff kills. I'm happy to drive in the knowledge
that I'm contributing less of the stuff that kills thousands of people
every year.
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, no question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose (enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive.
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, no
question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose
(enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive.
Making ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence
that any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see
your explanation of your words.
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
          The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, no
question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose
(enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive.
Making ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence
that any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see
your explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried in.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had? How about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our world? Some cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be put in little
bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other cities
want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one big bin and
let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the plant.
 They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have to drive so far to go to work?
How about every goddam thing that Newsom things is a wonderful idea to
save the planet and send him to DC?
On 2023-08-18 19:43, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
          The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, no >>>> question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose >>>> (enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive.
Making ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence
that any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see
your explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried in.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had? How >> about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our world? Some >> cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be put in little
bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other cities
want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one big bin and
let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the plant.
 They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have to drive so far to go to work?
How about every goddam thing that Newsom thinls is a wonderful idea to
save the planet and send him to DC?
Please try and grow a clue.
There may come a day when gas stoves are no longer legal...
...and there may come a day when ICE cars are no longer legal.
...but neither of them are coming soon.
On 2023-08-18, Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>>news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>before promoting the latest geewhiz techThen there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly >>>
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
You're still on track to be the most ignorant poster on Usenet!
Swill
Insurance companies regularly total EV cars, Tesla in particular, because even in a minor accident
that would be repairable with an ICE car, the cost is prohibitive with an EV. ><https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/scratched-ev-battery-your-insurer-may-have-
junk-whole-car-2023-03-20/> ><https://www.progressive.com/answers/car-insurance-electric-vehicles/>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt or >>> noise"?...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
;-)
On 8/18/23 7:54 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-18 19:43, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
          The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago,
no question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good
purpose (enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems
counterproductive.
Making ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence
that any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see
your explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried in.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had?
How about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our
world? Some cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be
put in little bags and placed in the top of our yard waste
containers. Other cities want it put in loose. Others just put all
the trash in one big bin and let people (presumably otherwise
unemployable) sort it out at the plant. Â Â They can't even agree on
how to properly deal with table scraps.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have to drive so far to go to work?
How about every goddam thing that Newsom thinls is a wonderful idea
to save the planet and send him to DC?
Please try and grow a clue.
There may come a day when gas stoves are no longer legal...
...and there may come a day when ICE cars are no longer legal.
...but neither of them are coming soon.
Except in Kalifornia.
Apparently it can be accomplished by The
Regulators. Some cities have outlawed running gas lines to new contruction. Not certain of the date, but new ICE cars will no longer
be allowed here (old ones can continue to be sold/traded, presumably),
At some point there will no longer be enough gas stations and gas will
be REALLY expensive.   The requirement to convert from natural gas to electric also has a date. I suppose there's hope that this shit can be overturned, but I wouldn't bet on it. Too many people making too much profit.
The crowding is NOW. Single-family zoning has just been invalidated
within 1/2 mile of a bus stop or train station. New apartment
houses/condos are LIMITED in the number of parking places they can include.
We and our parents built a first world and it's being turned into the
third world.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>> before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>>> before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist... >>>
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes.
Exactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for
maybe 10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the
shit out of my grandson. Lovely. Everything else, especially the
stupid touch screen, is crap.
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, no
question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose
(enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive.
Making ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence
that any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see
your explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried in.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had? How >about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our world? Some >cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be put in little
bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other cities
want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one big bin and
let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the plant.
They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have to drive so far to go to work?
How about every goddam thing that Newsom things is a wonderful idea to
save the planet and send him to DC?
On 2023-08-18 13:05, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/18/23 12:34 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <uboej5$c4dc$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
(extraneous groups snipped)
On 8/18/23 11:16 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>> withExactly right. That's the only reason to buy one. I drove one for
the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>> > doing jack rabbit starts and slamming on the brakes.
maybe
10 minutes, pedal to the metal as often as possible. Scared the shit >>>> out
of my grandson. Lovely. Everything else, especially the stupid touch >>>> screen, is crap.
I bought an EV in April. It's fabulous, including the touch screen.
Residual uncorrectable asitigmatism means nothing is EVER sharp and
screens require too much eye-time away from the road. Not to mention
making sure I tap the right thing. I can't imagine anyone using a menu
system to drive a car even with hawk-like vision.
I'll say it again:
Touchscreens in cars are a TERRIBLE idea.
Using a touchscreen means that any control you want to change requires
you to take your eyes from the road.
In my car, without ever taking my eyes from the road I can:
Change the HVAC settings (warmer, cooler, fan speed, defrost, etc.)
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
And on and on.
My car has physical buttons and knobs which vary sufficiently in
position, size and other details that I can operate them by feel.
A screen to provide information such as for navigation? Acceptable.
Glancing briefly to see what and when your next turn is isn't a problem.
But touchscreens by their very nature require far LONGER attention to >correctly operate a control on them.
I will never go back to petrol. Ever.
For the foreseeable future, electric cars just transfer the CO2 etc.
elsewhere. Fine with me, there's no way we can cut enough to make up
for the rest of the world even if man-made CO2 IS the problem.
The regenerative braking has encouraged me to become a slightly gentler
driver. I still love the acceleration, but I decelerate more gently.
I take my foot off the gas a considerable distance before the stop sign;
I know people who have only two modes, though -- gas and brake. And
they know better :-(
Taking your foot off the gas does save fuel over maintaining your speed
up until the point where you have to brake...
...but you still convert kinetic energy into waste. The fact that the
engine is doing the braking doesn't change that.
<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
My house is heated and cooled with a heat pump. And it has solar
panels.
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried in.
But the stove, hot water heater, and dryer are gas.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had? How >>about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our world? Some >>cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be put in little
bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other cities
want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one big bin and
let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the plant.
Sort it out? Maybe, but I'm very skeptical.
They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps.
Garbage and recyclables are collected separately by two trucks here.
But no information is provided on how much extra gas is used by using
two trucks instead of one
Also no information is provided on how much energy is used by
recycling. Is there still a savings? Perhaps, but my guess is that
it's much lower than we are led to believe.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have to drive so far to go to work?
One good thing that mostly resulted from COVID is that many people now
work from home.
How about every goddam thing that Newsom things is a wonderful idea to
save the planet and send him to DC?
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>>>> before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist... >>>>
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against anything. I'm noting
that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:31:07 -0500, "Scout" wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
I think that you have not a single actual fact to back up that pile of
bullshit.
Other than having done it.
You installed an EV charger at your house?
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well as the
centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, no question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose (enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive.
Making ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence that any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see your explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be buried in.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had?
How about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our world?
Some cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be put in
little bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other cities want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one big bin and let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the
plant.
They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't have
to drive so far to go to work?
On 2023-08-19 14:11, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well as the centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a
terrible idea.
In message <ubpa8b$jn7n$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years ago, noMaking ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any evidence that >> > any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see your
question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no good purpose
(enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems counterproductive. >> >
explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be buried >> in.
You won't be forced to convert to all-electric before you're ready to
do so. Legislation is not retroactive. New builds will have to be all-electric, yes, but that doesn't affect you.
Your gas stove emits pollutants inside your home at levels that would be illegal outdoors. You can carry on living in that as long as you like.
We have an induction cooker.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had?
Again, you won't have to get rid of it until you're ready to do so.
But people who hang on to petrol-powered museum pieces may start to
find it difficult to buy petrol, as less of it gets used.
I love steam trains, but I wouldn't dream of trying to run a modern
railway with them.
How about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies our world?
Some cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be put in
little bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other
cities want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one big bin >> and let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the
plant.
They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps.
We have to separate out some of our waste. It's no big deal. I wish
there were some more categories.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't have >> to drive so far to go to work?
Really? You want to live more crowded?
On 8/19/23 2:24 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubpa8b$jn7n$1@dont-email.me>
          The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1@dont-email.me>ago, no > > question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no
           The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years
good purpose > > (enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems
counterproductive.
evidence thatMaking ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any
any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see your
explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried
in.
You won't be forced to convert to all-electric before you're ready to
do so. Legislation is not retroactive. New builds will have to be
all-electric, yes, but that doesn't affect you.
The intent is to require the conversion of existing homes from gas to electricity.
All it takes to shut off the gas is a decision and a big
switch. Not clear who's allowed to make that decision, and it's not
clear who's allowed to overturn it. But it's what the asshole greenies
want and they seem to be really good at getting what they want.
Nobody wanted to convert their cars to run on unleaded, but we all had
to replace our old cylinder heads with "smog heads" with hardened valve seats.
At some point we were required to install some sort of anti-NOX
device, which was later NOT required -- BUT the sticker placed on the instrument panel when the device was installed WAS required to be there.
 Fortunately the shop that had installed the NOX device a decade or two previously found an appropriate sticker in the back of the manager's
desk drawer so we could continue to drive the 1968 Dodge van. Yes, it
IS insane. Yes, it WAS required. This is California. Idiots ruled by idiots.
I live here only because the house is paid for, the property taxes are minimal (Thanks, Howard!), and all our friends and family live here. I
once thought California was a good place. Now it's just a dump with a
few pretty places. And did I mention the hell-in-a-handbasket public
school system? Don't get me started.
Your gas stove emits pollutants inside your home at levels that would be
illegal outdoors. You can carry on living in that as long as you like.
We have an induction cooker.
I've lived with gas stoves and heaters for 80 years and I still ski and
play tennis. Tell me more about this pollution of which you speak. I
find it interesting that only recently has the poisonous nature of
natural gas been discovered.
BTW, did you know that you can actually be ELECTROCUTED by touching
electric wires? Why were we not told about this earlier?
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had?
Again, you won't have to get rid of it until you're ready to do so.
But people who hang on to petrol-powered museum pieces may start to
find it difficult to buy petrol, as less of it gets used.
You're living in a fantasy world where you are a grown-up and no longer
need a nanny to look after you. Here in California things are very different. I am unable to buy a kitchen sink faucet that will fill my
sink in under 5 minutes. Theory has it that we just sort of sit there
and watch the water run down the drain for fun rather than filling a container with the amount of water we need so we need The State to save
us from ourselves. Our gasoline is different and more expensive, only
part of the additional cost due to manufacture. Our jerry cans are very nearly useless.
I love steam trains, but I wouldn't dream of trying to run a modern
railway with them.
How about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies ourWe have to separate out some of our waste. It's no big deal. I wish
world? Some cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be
put in
little bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other >>> cities want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one
big bin
and let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the
plant. Â They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps. >>
there were some more categories.
It's no problem at all, but what gripes me is that the assholes make
rules without actually thinking about their implementation or effects.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have
to drive so far to go to work?
Really? You want to live more crowded?
No. I live in a cheap suburb with 50x150 lots and 1KSF houses. It's
now legal to put 4-unit apartment houses in my single-family
neighborhood as well as "accessory dwelling units? (granny flats),
thereby increasing the density here as well as in the center of the city where bigger and bigger multi-unit buildings are going up. "Increasing
the density" is a negative;Â I would have thought that was understood.
The State has ordered thus. Apparently the State can withhold some of
the sales tax money if the City tells the State to fuck off. My
feeling: we were here first. Tough luck if you want to live here --
get in line or move further out and build your own damn city.
But we digress...
In message <ubrbo6$10q4j$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:11, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well as the
centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a
terrible idea.
Not so. There are plenty of uses for a touchscreen that you'd do
while not driving.
In message <ubpa8b$jn7n$1@dont-email.me>[...]
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We
don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be buried in.
You won't be forced to convert to all-electric before you're ready to
do so. Legislation is not retroactive. New builds will have to be all-electric, yes, but that doesn't affect you.
Again, you won't have to get rid of it until you're ready to do so.
But people who hang on to petrol-powered museum pieces may start to
find it difficult to buy petrol, as less of it gets used.
(*Not* directed at you): It would be nice if the proponents of EVs, all-electric, etc.. would be more open, realistic, etc. about the
pollution (all different kinds) and other problems associated with them, instead of sort of implying there's none.
Meanwhile, we take the sensible approach and limit our use of
resources, waste, mainly use public transport, etc., etc..
BTW, I watched A Soldier of Orange a long time ago and marveled that
Dutch sounded exactly like English (pronunciation, intonation, etc.) but
with different words. Is the converse true?
On 2023-08-19 14:54, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrbo6$10q4j$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:11, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well as
the centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a terrible idea.
Not so. There are plenty of uses for a touchscreen that you'd do while
not driving.
Really?
Such as?
In message <ubrh6m$11k2b$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:54, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrbo6$10q4j$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:11, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well as
the centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a
terrible idea.
Not so. There are plenty of uses for a touchscreen that you'd do while
not driving.
Really?
Such as?
The first things that spring to mind are setting up navigation to your destination (when the voice control doesn't recognise what you're trying
to say - we all know that there's no such thing yet as voice recognition
that gets it right all the time and knows all possible destinations) and telling it which parking spot to park itself in, which /must/ be done
when the vehicle is stationary.
Realistically, an EV has so many features that it isn't possible to
control them any other way.
Tell me more about this pollution of which you speak.
I find it interesting that only recently has the poisonous nature of
natural gas been discovered.
On 2023-08-18 05:25, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublrfn$3sqta$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:27, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg3p$3r264$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install one...
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to do
so.. I guess you're just SOL.
1. It's not very expensive to have a plain-old 240/220 volt outlet
installed. Sorry, but it's basic electric work.
2. Getting permission to do so isn't hard.
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I want >>>> to see how well that charger works when you install it for your
on-street parking and someone starts using YOUR power to charge THEIR
car, or simply blocks you from parking there.
I never claimed it was an answer for everyone, but it's an answer for
many people.
It's not even an answer for many people. It's really only an answer for a
very small minority of people.
How do you make that calculation?
What percentage of the US lives in single family homes?
And you want to pretend that because it won't work for everyone, it's
useless.
No, I'm saying that for the overwhelming majority of people it wont serve
their needs nearly as well as an ordinary ICE.
LOL!
Now it's a "overwhelming majority"!
Cost for one. I mean how many people can afford a brand new luxury priced
car without wrecking their finances?
I mean heck, they can't afford to pay student loans or rent.. but they
can get a new luxury car?
By what I see on the streets each day, LOTS of people can afford to buy
what you term a "luxury" car.
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I guess >>>>>> you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre >>>> dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected from >>>> rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or electric clothes dryer.
The costs to install such a receptacle are readily available and I'm
sorry, but it is NOT NEAR the numbers you've been bullshitting.
On 2023-08-18 06:31, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublrtv$3sqta$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:44, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublh72$3r5fh$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use >>>>>>>>>>> a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed? >>>>>>>
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER THE >>>>>> FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in a
home, right?
Sure, and all you need is deep enough pockets.
Well Alan your 150Amp panel wont support this load given your current
electrical system, so we're going to have to upgrade to a 200-225 Amp
panel, then we have to update all the wiring to current code as
required by the electrical code
Cite, please!
Load calculations.
That's not a cite.
Builders don't install bigger more expensive power panels unless they
have to.. and it's going to be a cost extra. Which means you probably
aren't going to have enough extra to add a 240V 50A long term draw to
most existing breaker panels. At least not without risking a lot of
nuance trips of the main breaker.. which have a pretty short trip life
and replacements are expensive.
So you install a second panel just for the new circuit.
Straw man.
Next we will need to tear down parts of your walls to run the cable,
and correct the wiring as necessary. and then install a subpanel and
the associated wiring for the charger. We need zoning approval, the
house can not be occupied between when the work starts as that would be >>>> illegal with no electrical power and then the government inspectors
have to approve the work and the power company finally returns to
restore power once they get all the necessary documents and
certifications. So you will have to find somewhere else to stay for
about 1-2 weeks, but it could be as much as 3 weeks and initial
estimate will be $12K-$20K for job. But we can't even touch the job
until you get a permit and authorization to have this work performed,
and perform a full electrical audit to determine the full scope of work >>>> to be performed which will cost $1,200. At last check the permit
department has a 4-6 week back log... What? You already sold your old
car, and you need the charger installed this weekend? Ever consider
getting a bicycle?
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
I think that you have not a single actual fact to back up that pile of
bullshit.
Other than having done it.
Prove it.
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
If you don't have an electric stove.. then you don't have the high
capacity plug there to use.... even if you could.
How stupid are you to think I'm suggesting you would use THAT PARTICULAR >>> PLUG?
because otherwise you would be in violation of the NEC.
I mean you did claim to be a competent electrician right?
Nope.
How would having a second receptacle of the TYPE used for a stove or dryer violate the NEC?
On 2023-08-18 06:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublroe$3sqta$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:29, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg5a$3r264$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Great, I'm sure your wife will be just thrilled as you move those range >>>> out into the middle of the floor so you can unhook it to hook in the
cable going to your charger and then run that cable through the house, >>>> and let's not forget you will be unable to close the door or window
you're going to feed that cable through. Then in the morning, you get
to get up early and put it all back, or it's going to be a cold
breakfast because the range isn't hooked up.
Any other stupidity you would like to display?
What makes you think that because it's the same TYPE of plug you'd use
for a stove, that I'm suggesting you use the same physcal OUTLET for
both purposes?
To do otherwise would violate the NEC 210.23 the only exception would be
to unplug one appliance to plug in another NEC 210.23C
Are you suggesting a house can't have more than one outlet of the type necessary to plug in an electric stove?
I'm pointing out that this is basic wiring that any competent
electrician can complete.
If they were competent they would turn you down flat.
Why?
It doesn't require special skills or special permits.
No, just risking their license and a boat load of liability.
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range [or >>> a Level 2 EV charger] is not really any harder than wiring a standard
outlet, but it can cost more because the electrician may need to run
conduit, reorganize circuit breakers in the main panel, or install a new >>> circuit breaker. The electrician will price his work according to the
length of cable that needs to be run and the amount of labor time he
anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-1152463>
A low power outlet or switch is a far different thing than a high powered
load run to the other end of the house.
That is specifically talking about a high-powered load run.
Sober up.
See what you're talking about could be done simply by patching any to any
accessible branch or lighting circuit in the area.
I'm not talking about patching into an accessible branch or lighting
circuit
What you want, however is going to require a run ALL THE WAY TO THE MAIN
BREAKER BOX WITH A HEAVY GAUGE CABLE.
Which is precisely what was being discussed in my quote.
Apples and Oranges.
Sober up.
'The cost to run electricity to a shed, garage, or shop is $10 to $25Again.. a low power feeder hooked into an accessible 15-20a branch
per linear foot or $500 to $3,800 on average for 50 to 150 feet of
underground line.'
<https://homeguide.com/costs/cost-to-run-electric-to-garage-shed-or-shop> >>
circuit.
Nope. Were do you get this straw man from?
So your numbers are bullshit.
No, my number are reality. Now if you want to install a 120V 5amp
charger.. that could be done for the prices you're talking about.
Anything more than that.. and your price is going to go up.. a lot.
Why?
My examples specifically talk about installing a circuit and receptacle of the kind necessary to carry the loads under discussion.
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting
that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE.
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with
the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit
starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first
time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric motors
and a large battery pack does add weight.
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is aYou think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt or >>> noise"?...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
LOL!
two day job.
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
On 2023-08-20 14:09, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrh6m$11k2b$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:54, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrbo6$10q4j$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:11, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well
as the centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a terrible idea.
Not so. There are plenty of uses for a touchscreen that you'd do
while not driving.
Really?
Such as?
The first things that spring to mind are setting up navigation to your destination (when the voice control doesn't recognise what you're trying
to say - we all know that there's no such thing yet as voice recognition that gets it right all the time and knows all possible destinations) and telling it which parking spot to park itself in, which /must/ be done
when the vehicle is stationary.
Realistically, an EV has so many features that it isn't possible to
control them any other way.
Sorry, but that's basically working around the limitation that you
shouldn't do so while driving.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a
terrible idea.
No, sir, you MIGHT be able to get those prices during construction but in
an occupied house.. not a chance in hell.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a >bit more.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is aYou think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt or >>>> noise"?...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
LOL!
two day job.
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>> before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken with >>> the stunning acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack rabbit
starts and slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with first
time EV owners. Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric motors
and a large battery pack does add weight.
The average weight of an ICE car is 3000#, the average weight of an EV is >over 5000#
which means when we have enough... existing parking garages will have to cut >the amount of parking by about 45% since the structure wasn't designed for >that much weight.
Going to do wonders for trying to find parking in an urban environment.
But that's ok, because the extra space between cars will help reduce the >spread of fire when your EV decides it's done and the battery pack starts >burning.
That could be possible, but would involve running a second feeder line which >means a utility charge.
So if you want to install a new outlet as you suggest.. you have to run a
NEW line for it.
You can NOT tap into an existing line.
It's Code violation.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8d9$b55s$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre >>>>> dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Ok, what has changed?
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or
electric
clothes dryer.
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where it's needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to plug
and unplug things each time you need to switch.
The costs to install such a receptacle are readily available and I'm
sorry, but it is NOT NEAR the numbers you've been bullshitting.
Sure, and when you stop looking at the costs for homes under construction, then you might have a clear idea of just how expensive that will be to do.
Free hint: It's very easy to add such things to a home while it is being constructed.. It's a LOT harder to do with it's a completed occupied home with some unknown electrical system that might never have been designed for that much draw much less whether the main electrical panel will even
support
adding such a line.
Instead, you just wave your hands in the air and tell people to "do it". as if that will somehow alter the reality.
Hell, you don’t even know the NEC requirements, but somehow you think you're
qualified to know how much it will cost to add to an existing system.
Yes, you produced numbers but unless you're talking a home still in the
early stages of construction.. those numbers don't mean shit.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo88t$b55s$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:25, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublrfn$3sqta$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:27, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg3p$3r264$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install one...
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to
do so.. I guess you're just SOL.
1. It's not very expensive to have a plain-old 240/220 volt outlet
installed. Sorry, but it's basic electric work.
2. Getting permission to do so isn't hard.
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I
want to see how well that charger works when you install it for
your on-street parking and someone starts using YOUR power to
charge THEIR car, or simply blocks you from parking there.
I never claimed it was an answer for everyone, but it's an answer
for many people.
It's not even an answer for many people. It's really only an answer
for a very small minority of people.
How do you make that calculation?
What percentage of the US lives in single family homes?
67%
However.. once you eliminate those that are rentals or lease, don't have
a garage, or owned by people who can't afford an EV and the great
expense of installing a high capacity EV charger. that number will go
down quite a bit.
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2
cars in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
Or do you set up 2 chargers and risk overloading the main service?
And you want to pretend that because it won't work for everyone,
it's useless.
No, I'm saying that for the overwhelming majority of people it wont
serve their needs nearly as well as an ordinary ICE.
LOL!
Now it's a "overwhelming majority"!
yes... it is. If you look at car sales the overwhelming majority are
still ICE.
Cost for one. I mean how many people can afford a brand new luxury
priced car without wrecking their finances?
I mean heck, they can't afford to pay student loans or rent.. but
they can get a new luxury car?
By what I see on the streets each day, LOTS of people can afford to
buy what you term a "luxury" car.
A few people can, but I see maybe 1% ev, if that.
Which I don't mind at all. What I mind is the fact that you want to
FORCE people into a cookie cutter solution because YOU think you know
what they need.
I'm all in favor of letting the market work. No tax breaks, no
incentives, no subsidies, no government aid. If the EV manufacturers
want to offer these things, fine, but public money shouldn't be involved.
Instead we have people like you ruling from on-high what the people MUST
do because you somehow thing you know more about their lives than they do.
In message <ubu2oi$1i93l$3@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-20 14:09, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrh6m$11k2b$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:54, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrbo6$10q4j$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:11, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubojpe$ch7s$5@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Change the radio stations and control the volume.
In my EV, the volume controls are on the steering wheel as well
as the centre console (dedicated buttons there, not the touch
screen).
I can change stations by voice control.
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a >>>>>> terrible idea.
Not so. There are plenty of uses for a touchscreen that you'd do
while not driving.
Really?
Such as?
The first things that spring to mind are setting up navigation to your
destination (when the voice control doesn't recognise what you're trying >>> to say - we all know that there's no such thing yet as voice recognition >>> that gets it right all the time and knows all possible destinations) and >>> telling it which parking spot to park itself in, which /must/ be done
when the vehicle is stationary.
Realistically, an EV has so many features that it isn't possible to
control them any other way.
Sorry, but that's basically working around the limitation that you
shouldn't do so while driving.
Are you changing the basis of your argument? Above, you said:
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a
terrible idea.
They are a good idea, in fact they are indispensable to a modern car
with so many features. It would be a terrible idea to use them while driving, I agree, but the features controlled by the touch screen do
not need to be altered while driving. So, no problem.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uboj3t$ch7s$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>> before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
The average weight of an ICE car is 3000#, the average weight of an EV
is over 5000#
which means when we have enough... existing parking garages will have to
cut the amount of parking by about 45% since the structure wasn't
designed for that much weight.
Going to do wonders for trying to find parking in an urban environment.
But that's ok, because the extra space between cars will help reduce the spread of fire when your EV decides it's done and the battery pack
starts burning.
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2 cars >in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where it's >needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to plug
and unplug things each time you need to switch.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel isYou think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust,...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
dirt or
noise"?
LOL!
a two day job.
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so
taken with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing
jack rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue
with first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor.
The ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting
that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs
wear tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they
weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite
a bit more.
However.. once you eliminate those that are rentals or lease, don't have
a garage, or owned by people who can't afford an EV and the great
expense of installing a high capacity EV charger. that number will go
down quite a bit.
Why would you automatically eliminate those that are renting, Sunshine?
The expense IS NOT GREAT.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is a >>>>> two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt >>>>>> or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the
KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power being
out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load..
On 2023-08-21 06:09, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo88t$b55s$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:25, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublrfn$3sqta$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:27, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg3p$3r264$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>> guess you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>> install one...
Great.. and if you don't don't have the money or the permission to do >>>>>> so.. I guess you're just SOL.
1. It's not very expensive to have a plain-old 240/220 volt outlet
installed. Sorry, but it's basic electric work.
2. Getting permission to do so isn't hard.
That is even assuming you have a garage to install one in. Yea, I
want to see how well that charger works when you install it for your >>>>>> on-street parking and someone starts using YOUR power to charge THEIR >>>>>> car, or simply blocks you from parking there.
I never claimed it was an answer for everyone, but it's an answer for >>>>> many people.
It's not even an answer for many people. It's really only an answer for >>>> a very small minority of people.
How do you make that calculation?
What percentage of the US lives in single family homes?
67%
However.. once you eliminate those that are rentals or lease, don't have
a garage, or owned by people who can't afford an EV and the great expense
of installing a high capacity EV charger. that number will go down quite
a bit.
Why would you automatically eliminate those that are renting, Sunshine?
The expense IS NOT GREAT.
That is simply false.
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2
cars in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
Edge cases, Sunshine.
Or do you set up 2 chargers and risk overloading the main service?
And you want to pretend that because it won't work for everyone, it's >>>>> useless.
No, I'm saying that for the overwhelming majority of people it wont
serve their needs nearly as well as an ordinary ICE.
LOL!
Now it's a "overwhelming majority"!
yes... it is. If you look at car sales the overwhelming majority are
still ICE.
Sorry, but that does not follow logically.
Cost for one. I mean how many people can afford a brand new luxury
priced car without wrecking their finances?
I mean heck, they can't afford to pay student loans or rent.. but they >>>> can get a new luxury car?
By what I see on the streets each day, LOTS of people can afford to buy
what you term a "luxury" car.
A few people can, but I see maybe 1% ev, if that.
So?
Which I don't mind at all. What I mind is the fact that you want to FORCE
people into a cookie cutter solution because YOU think you know what they
need.
I don't want to force anyone, Sunshine.
Now you're combining ad hominem and straw man.
I'm all in favor of letting the market work. No tax breaks, no
incentives, no subsidies, no government aid. If the EV manufacturers want
to offer these things, fine, but public money shouldn't be involved.
Instead we have people like you ruling from on-high what the people MUST
do because you somehow thing you know more about their lives than they
do.
Ad hominem... ...straw man.
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is a >>>> two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, dirt >>>>> or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the
KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power being
out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
On 2023-08-21 06:35, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8d9$b55s$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>> guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>> install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - >>>>>> pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected >>>>>> from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Ok, what has changed?
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or
electric
clothes dryer.
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where it's
needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to plug
and unplug things each time you need to switch.
Do you always post when you're drunk?
Where have I ever suggest that you would use ONE receptacle for both purposes.
What I've pointed out that it is a very standard kind of installation for
an electrician to complete.
The costs to install such a receptacle are readily available and I'm
sorry, but it is NOT NEAR the numbers you've been bullshitting.
Sure, and when you stop looking at the costs for homes under
construction,
then you might have a clear idea of just how expensive that will be to
do.
Free hint: It's very easy to add such things to a home while it is being
constructed.. It's a LOT harder to do with it's a completed occupied home
with some unknown electrical system that might never have been designed
for
that much draw much less whether the main electrical panel will even
support
adding such a line.
Instead, you just wave your hands in the air and tell people to "do it".
as
if that will somehow alter the reality.
Hell, you don’t even know the NEC requirements, but somehow you think
you're
qualified to know how much it will cost to add to an existing system.
Yes, you produced numbers but unless you're talking a home still in the
early stages of construction.. those numbers don't mean shit.
Now you're just lying.
I gave you a website that explicitly gave costs for installation on an existing home.
Now grow up.
Come back when you're sober.
Excuse me while I laugh at you.
However.. once you eliminate those that are rentals or lease,
don't have a garage, or owned by people who can't afford an EV
and the great expense of installing a high capacity EV charger.
that number will go down quite a bit.
Why would you automatically eliminate those that are renting,
Sunshine?
Because I doubt the renter would pay for it even assuming the
owner would allow it.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:uc1809$28hmm$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 06:35, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8d9$b55s$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>>> guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>>> install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician >>>>>>> connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - >>>>>>> pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected >>>>>>> from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the >>>>> basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Ok, what has changed?
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or
electric
clothes dryer.
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where it's >>> needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to plug >>> and unplug things each time you need to switch.
Do you always post when you're drunk?
Let facing facts he can't contest Alan resorts to inventing excuses to
accept his delusions instead.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panelYou think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust,...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
dirt or
noise"?
LOL!
is a two day job.
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the
KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power
being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's
going to take time to do,
not just the panel swap but making sure all
the electric branch lines are up to current standards.
Which is probably
unlikely unless your home is of recent built.
I mean a simple 3 way
switch could ruin your day, as you now have to run new wiring to provide
a neutral at each switch location.
Then you have the issue of getting
the electric company out to remove power, and then done and inspected,
you have to try to get them out again. That's probably going to take a minimum of 2 days for the majority of homes.
I mean do you think electricians are allowed to simply remove the meter
and reinstall it just because they want to?
No. Only the utility company can do that. Further, they don't just drop everything and come running out because you called. Now you can usually schedule when power will be turned off, but you can't know exactly when
you will complete the work, get the inspector to come out an certify the work, so you will know exactly when to schedule the utility to come back
out and replace the meter.. which they won't do until you have the form
from the inspector verifying the work has been approved.
So yea, it's probably going to take days. at least 2 and depending on
the scope of the work to be done... perhaps much longer.
I mean have you EVER rewired a home? Do you even have a clue about how
much work that could mean?
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panelYou think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, >>>>>>> dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
is a two day job.
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the
KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power
being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's
going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
not just the panel swap but making sure all
the electric branch lines are up to current standards.
And that's a hypothetical.
Which is probably
unlikely unless your home is of recent built.
And that's a hypothetical
I mean a simple 3 way
switch could ruin your day, as you now have to run new wiring to provide
a neutral at each switch location.
And that's a non sequitur.
Then you have the issue of getting
the electric company out to remove power, and then done and inspected,
No. You kill the house main breaker to wire the pony panel into it after >everything else has been wired and run.
you have to try to get them out again. That's probably going to take a
minimum of 2 days for the majority of homes.
You keep imagining that you have "get them out" while an electrician is >working.
It remains bullshit.
I mean do you think electricians are allowed to simply remove the meter
and reinstall it just because they want to?
Why is there a need to remove the meter?
No. Only the utility company can do that. Further, they don't just drop
everything and come running out because you called. Now you can usually
schedule when power will be turned off, but you can't know exactly when
you will complete the work, get the inspector to come out an certify the
work, so you will know exactly when to schedule the utility to come back
out and replace the meter.. which they won't do until you have the form
from the inspector verifying the work has been approved.
So yea, it's probably going to take days. at least 2 and depending on
the scope of the work to be done... perhaps much longer.
I mean have you EVER rewired a home? Do you even have a clue about how
much work that could mean?
You keep setting up straw men, sonny.
On 2023-08-21 11:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubu2oi$1i93l$3@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-20 14:09, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrh6m$11k2b$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:54, David Higton wrote:
The first things that spring to mind are setting up navigation to
your destination (when the voice control doesn't recognise what
you're trying to say - we all know that there's no such thing yet as voice recognition that gets it right all the time and knows all possible destinations) and telling it which parking spot to park
itself in, which /must/ be done when the vehicle is stationary.
Realistically, an EV has so many features that it isn't possible to control them any other way.
Sorry, but that's basically working around the limitation that you shouldn't do so while driving.
Are you changing the basis of your argument? Above, you said:
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a terrible idea.
They are a good idea, in fact they are indispensable to a modern car with so many features. It would be a terrible idea to use them while driving,
I agree, but the features controlled by the touch screen do not need to
be altered while driving. So, no problem.
If the control exists, I guarantee you people WILL use it WHILE driving.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:09:22 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2 cars >> in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
I think by the time we see two BEV households become common, EV chargers will be more
common too. When landlords figure out they can charge higher rent if the place includes a
charger . . .
"Come to Dreamhaven. 1, 2, double master and 3 bedroom homes with up to two UL approved
UBEV v4.2 chargers per unit. Open House this Sunday!"
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2
cars in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
In message <uc181o$28hmm$7@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-21 11:50, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubu2oi$1i93l$3@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-20 14:09, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubrh6m$11k2b$1@dont-email.me>
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-19 14:54, David Higton wrote:
The first things that spring to mind are setting up navigation to
your destination (when the voice control doesn't recognise what
you're trying to say - we all know that there's no such thing yet as >>>>> voice recognition that gets it right all the time and knows all
possible destinations) and telling it which parking spot to park
itself in, which /must/ be done when the vehicle is stationary.
Realistically, an EV has so many features that it isn't possible to
control them any other way.
Sorry, but that's basically working around the limitation that you
shouldn't do so while driving.
Are you changing the basis of your argument? Above, you said:
None of which changes the fact that controls on a touchscreen are a
terrible idea.
They are a good idea, in fact they are indispensable to a modern car with >>> so many features. It would be a terrible idea to use them while driving, >>> I agree, but the features controlled by the touch screen do not need to
be altered while driving. So, no problem.
If the control exists, I guarantee you people WILL use it WHILE driving.
Everything can be abused. People shouldn't use mobile phones while
driving, but we all know that some people do anyway. Hell, some
people even abuse cars to kill people.
You can't use that as a reason not to have a touch screen. There has
to be a user interface to control lots of ancillary functions - even
to switch between pages of displays of settings. You cannot do that
any reasonable way other then a touch screen.
But we're agreed that a touch screen shouldn't be used while driving,
except to see the navigation information.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a >> bit more.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear >>> tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE. >>
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>> already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance
charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so >>>>>>>>> taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not >>>>>>> rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up
tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs
wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh
MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite >>> a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help
achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on
ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they
do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without
a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution.
Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an
equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This
better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over
the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire.
Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast
or slow.
On 2023-08-21 20:47, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:09:22 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2
cars
in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
I think by the time we see two BEV households become common, EV chargers
will be more
common too. When landlords figure out they can charge higher rent if the
place includes a
charger . . .
"Come to Dreamhaven. 1, 2, double master and 3 bedroom homes with up to
two UL approved
UBEV v4.2 chargers per unit. Open House this Sunday!"
It will definitely become a selling point.
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel is >>>>>> a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, >>>>>>> dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the
KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power being >>> out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's
going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a >>> bit more.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear >>>> tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE. >>>
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast
or slow.
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 19:47:44 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a >>>> bit more.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>>>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear >>>>> tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE. >>>>
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast
or slow.
Neither do you or you would have posted correct information instead of just spitting on
the sidewalk.
Swill
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>> already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so >>>>>>>>>> taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing >>>>>>>>>> jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue >>>>>>>>>> with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not >>>>>>>> rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. >>>>>>>> The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up >>>>>>> tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs
wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh
MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost
quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help
achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as
they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and
without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an
equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride.
This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control
over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive,
tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear
fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you
might find on your average ICE?
Man forced to ditch $115K Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago: 'biggest scam of modern times'
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:uc33u1$2hqba$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 20:47, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 08:09:22 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
Then you have to consider the multicar households.. How do you charge 2 >>>> cars
in a single car garage without a lot of extra headache?
I think by the time we see two BEV households become common, EV chargers >>> will be more
common too. When landlords figure out they can charge higher rent if the >>> place includes a
charger . . .
"Come to Dreamhaven. 1, 2, double master and 3 bedroom homes with up to >>> two UL approved
UBEV v4.2 chargers per unit. Open House this Sunday!"
It will definitely become a selling point.
Great, if you can afford a brand new home.. but given the issue of people >being able to afford ANY home....
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel >>>>>>> is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, >>>>>>>> dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind
(the KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the
power being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's
going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house, then all
I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York being
at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't have modern wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with wiring compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you are.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because you
have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of mine had
a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the original cloth
insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line to that
home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the table.
On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 19:47:44 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout" <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a >>>> bit more.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>>>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear >>>>> tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE. >>>>
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast
or slow.
Neither do you or you would have posted correct information instead of just spitting on
the sidewalk.
Voice of REASON <reason@anon.net> wrote:
Man forced to ditch $115K Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago: >> 'biggest scam of modern times'
I'm other news: Woman and son forced to have an entirely uneventful
roadtrip in sub-100 miles EV
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/23/uk-ireland-electric-car-electric-vehicle-road-trip>
YMMV (literally)
A neighbor of mine had a home
that used a 60A service using fuses and the original cloth insulated wiring. >Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line to that home for ANY of the >prices you've brought to the table.
Alright.
Show ONE source that claims that battery EVs handle "better" than >equivalently-sized (by carrying capacities, not overall weight) ICE
vehicles.
Just one.
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:23:24 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Alright.
Show ONE source that claims that battery EVs handle "better" than
equivalently-sized (by carrying capacities, not overall weight) ICE
vehicles.
Just one.
Moving the goal posts? Start here:
PACKAGING/POWER/TECH/HANDLING:
Jason Cammisa, Lucid Air review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8&t=14s
WHY ELECTRIC CARS ARE ALWAYS QUICKER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcn7tvESreI
RIVIAN TRUCK 10,000 MI/1 YEAR REVIEW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg
RIVIAN SUV:
Center of gravity, effect of tires on range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjS0v0w9vpI
"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:936cei1n3jgn80gs4fmmlhn58gdonu46ju@4ax.com...
Why don't we give the rich and big corporations more tax cuts? Then
EVERYBODY can afford
to buy a home!
Do you believe that "rich and big corporations" would pass on any tax cuts
to the consumer? They'd just use them to fund larger shareholder dividends, >and larger bonuses for the most senior executives (ie not even distributed
to all the employees of the corporation).
On 2023-08-23 18:17, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:23:24 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Alright.
Show ONE source that claims that battery EVs handle "better" than
equivalently-sized (by carrying capacities, not overall weight) ICE
vehicles.
Just one.
Moving the goal posts? Start here:
Put back the context.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a >>>> bit more.Be fair:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>> alreadyCite, please!
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard. >>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges? >>>>>>>>>>
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare. >>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>>>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear >>>>> tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE. >>>>
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast
or slow.
Neither do you or you would have posted correct information instead of just spitting on
the sidewalk.
Isn't it interesting that suddenly you've chosen to remove it?
PACKAGING/POWER/TECH/HANDLING:
Jason Cammisa, Lucid Air review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8&t=14s
WHY ELECTRIC CARS ARE ALWAYS QUICKER:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcn7tvESreI
RIVIAN TRUCK 10,000 MI/1 YEAR REVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg
RIVIAN SUV:
Center of gravity, effect of tires on range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjS0v0w9vpI
So you couldn't show one source that actually states what you claimed...
...but have not carefully snipped.
Why don't we give the rich and big corporations more tax cuts? Then EVERYBODY can afford
to buy a home!
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel >>>>>>>> is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, >>>>>>>>> dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise?For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the >>>>> KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power
being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's
going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house, then all
I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York being
at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't have modern
wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with wiring
compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new circuits
into a home with old wiring.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because you
have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of mine had
a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the original cloth
insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line to that
home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"Be fair:
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so >>>>>>>>>>> taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing >>>>>>>>>>> jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue >>>>>>>>>>> with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of
electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not >>>>>>>>> rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. >>>>>>>>> The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up >>>>>>>> tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs >>>>>> wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh >>>>>> MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost
quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help
achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling >>>> on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as
they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and
without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an
equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride.
This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control
over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. >>>> Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast >>> or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you
might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Do you believe that "rich and big corporations" would pass on any tax cuts
to the consumer?
They'd just use them to fund larger shareholder dividends,
and larger bonuses for the most senior executives (ie not even distributed
to all the employees of the corporation).
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >news:uc57ra$2vg3q$7@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel >>>>>>>>> is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, >>>>>>>>>> dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise? >>>>>>>>>>>> For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind (the >>>>>> KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the power >>>>>> being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's >>>>> going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house, then all >>> I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
No, I don't.
I'm perfectly willing to accept some homes will be simple easy
and quick....
...BUT not all homes are going to be that way.
Something you wont admit.
Indeed until about the mid 2000s were 200A panels largely standard in home >construction. Before that you're looking at 100A-150A.. which by your own >source means you may need a main panel upgrade. Which is going to be an
added expense, and the older your home is the more expensive that upgrade >could become.
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York being
at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't have modern
wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with wiring >>> compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new circuits
into a home with old wiring.
As long as you don't change the main panel.
The problem is those older panels may not support that additional load, even >assuming you can find the proper breakers for some of them that have long >since been discontinued. Then let's not even get into those that have been >found to be dangerous and unreliable. Which many electricians won't even >touch because if something happens.. anything happens... their new work will >be blamed even if it had nothing to do with the cause of the failure.
But hey.. you just totally and utterly ignore such issues, because real life >situations have nothing to do with what you're calling for.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because you
have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of mine had >>> a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the original cloth
insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line to that
home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
Yep, and there are a whole hell of a lot of edge cases.
That's why number you see online are based on a LOT of assumptions
and while
they might be typical for most people.. a whole lot of other people will
find they don't even come close to being accurate for their specific >conditions.
Oh, but that's right, you don't want to discuss any condition that doesn't >favor your agenda.
Meanwhile, we still have rentals, leased, apartments, townhouses, on-street >parking and lack of garages to address..
Then we can get into load requirements, energy emergencies and long term >power outages.. all of which will basically strand you at home.
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you
might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc57ra$2vg3q$7@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a serviceYou think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise? >>>>>>>>>>>> For a day or two's work? Nope.
"dust, dirt or
noise"?
LOL!
panel is a two day job.
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind
(the KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the
power being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load..
it's going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house, then
all I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
No, I don't. I'm perfectly willing to accept some homes will be simple
easy and quick....
...BUT not all homes are going to be that way. Something you wont admit.
Indeed until about the mid 2000s were 200A panels largely standard in
home construction. Before that you're looking at 100A-150A.. which by
your own source means you may need a main panel upgrade. Which is going
to be an added expense, and the older your home is the more expensive
that upgrade could become.
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York
being at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't
have modern wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with
wiring compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new circuits
into a home with old wiring.
As long as you don't change the main panel.
The problem is those older panels may not support that additional load,
even assuming you can find the proper breakers for some of them that
have long since been discontinued. Then let's not even get into those
that have been found to be dangerous and unreliable. Which many
electricians won't even touch because if something happens.. anything happens... their new work will be blamed even if it had nothing to do
with the cause of the failure.
But hey.. you just totally and utterly ignore such issues, because real
life situations have nothing to do with what you're calling for.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because
you have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of
mine had a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the original
cloth insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line
to that home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
Yep, and there are a whole hell of a lot of edge cases.
That's why number you see online are based on a LOT of assumptions and
while they might be typical for most people.. a whole lot of other
people will find they don't even come close to being accurate for their specific conditions.
Oh, but that's right, you don't want to discuss any condition that
doesn't favor your agenda.
Meanwhile, we still have rentals, leased, apartments, townhouses,
on-street parking and lack of garages to address..
Then we can get into load requirements, energy emergencies and long term power outages.. all of which will basically strand you at home.
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:14:05 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you
might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Not in this newsgroup you haven't.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own
motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons
EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they
weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost >>>>>> quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to
help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well
as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and
without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an
equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride.
This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain
control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive,
tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear
fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire
you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
On 2023-08-24 10:30, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:14:05 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you >>>> might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Not in this newsgroup you haven't.
Wrong.
Don't make me school you... ...again.
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 19:37:41 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 18:17, Governor Swill wrote:
PACKAGING/POWER/TECH/HANDLING:
Jason Cammisa, Lucid Air review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8&t=14s
WHY ELECTRIC CARS ARE ALWAYS QUICKER:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcn7tvESreI
RIVIAN TRUCK 10,000 MI/1 YEAR REVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg
RIVIAN SUV:
Center of gravity, effect of tires on range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjS0v0w9vpI
So you couldn't show one source that actually states what you claimed...
...but have not carefully snipped.
Sometimes the information you want isn't in a single paragraph in the encyclopedia.
The first one describes the Lucid as a luxury sedan comparable to an S class with handling
superior to the BMW M5. This addresses your request for ONE source to show EVs handling
better than ICEs.
The second video explains why EVs are so much quicker than comparable ICEs. This relates
also to performance, in this case, straight line power, a more American consideration of
performance.
The third video tells about living with an electric truck long term. Self explanatory.
Consider it bonus info.
The fourth compares another Rivian model and states very specifically the effect of the
inherent low center of gravity on EV handling. Also a dissertation about handling that
explains how, specifically, handling is improved by the inherent design of an EV
If you couldn't be bothered to check out the resources provided, you have no reason to
complain that resources weren't provided.
If you're going to move goal posts, you have no business complaining about context.
The simple fact is, EVs have superior handling qualities compared to similar ICE vehicles.
Now, how about you provide some proof of your tire wear claim?
On 2023-08-24 10:30, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:14:05 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you >>>> might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Not in this newsgroup you haven't.
Wrong.
Don't make me school you... ...again.
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so >>>>>>>>>>>>> taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing >>>>>>>>>>>>> jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue >>>>>>>>>>>>> with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not >>>>>>>>>>> rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. >>>>>>>>>>> The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up >>>>>>>>>> tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs >>>>>>>> wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh >>>>>>>> MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost >>>>>>> quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help >>>>>> achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as >>>>>> they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and
without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an >>>>>> equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. >>>>>> This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control >>>>>> over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive,
tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear
fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire you >>>> might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and an
EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
On 2023-08-24 06:16, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57ra$2vg3q$7@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service panel >>>>>>>>>> is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of "dust, >>>>>>>>>>> dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise? >>>>>>>>>>>>> For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind >>>>>>> (the KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the >>>>>>> power being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. it's >>>>>> going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house, then
all I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
No, I don't. I'm perfectly willing to accept some homes will be simple
easy and quick....
Yes.
Your entire argument has been that all these generalities apply all the
time.
...BUT not all homes are going to be that way. Something you wont admit.
Indeed until about the mid 2000s were 200A panels largely standard in
home construction. Before that you're looking at 100A-150A.. which by
your own source means you may need a main panel upgrade. Which is going
to be an added expense, and the older your home is the more expensive
that upgrade could become.
Or a secondary panel...
You get that that can be done, right?
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York being >>>> at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't have modern >>>> wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with
wiring compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you
are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new circuits
into a home with old wiring.
As long as you don't change the main panel.
So install a secondary panel.
The problem is those older panels may not support that additional load,
even assuming you can find the proper breakers for some of them that have
long since been discontinued. Then let's not even get into those that
have been found to be dangerous and unreliable. Which many electricians
won't even touch because if something happens.. anything happens... their
new work will be blamed even if it had nothing to do with the cause of
the failure.
So install a secondary panel.
But hey.. you just totally and utterly ignore such issues, because real
life situations have nothing to do with what you're calling for.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because you >>>> have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of mine
had a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the original cloth
insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line to that
home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
Yep, and there are a whole hell of a lot of edge cases.
Nope. That's WHY they're called "edge cases".
That's why number you see online are based on a LOT of assumptions and
while they might be typical for most people.. a whole lot of other people
will find they don't even come close to being accurate for their specific
conditions.
Oh, but that's right, you don't want to discuss any condition that
doesn't favor your agenda.
I have no agenda. Sorry.
Meanwhile, we still have rentals, leased, apartments, townhouses,
on-street parking and lack of garages to address..
Rental units can be outfitted with chargers by their owners,
as can townhouses and houses without garages can still have chargers on the >outside of the home.
Then we can get into load requirements, energy emergencies and long term
power outages.. all of which will basically strand you at home.
Then we can also get into home generation of electricity.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>> EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and
cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than >>>>>>> an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable
ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain
control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them
wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire
you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and
an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ucaisa$3gt9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or >>>>>>>>>>>> against
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>> use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>>>
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>
reasons EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and >>>>>>>>>> cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds >>>>>>>>> to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as >>>>>>>>> well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity >>>>>>>>> and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better
than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable >>>>>>>>> ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more
massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them >>>>>>>> wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow
rolling resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 >>>>>>> mile tire you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire
and an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1pnedy7xO3Q/m/0ddHmvJ8BgAJ>
Yes, and did not fulfill the conditions set.
All you did was compare prices.
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>> EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost >>>>>>>>> quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an >>>>>>>> equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. >>>>>>>> This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain
control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear >>>>>>> fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling >>>>>> resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire >>>>>> you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and an >>> EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1pnedy7xO3Q/m/0ddHmvJ8BgAJ>
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ucaisa$3gt9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>> EVs wear
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>>>
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost >>>>>>>>>> quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an >>>>>>>>> equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. >>>>>>>>> This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear >>>>>>>> fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling >>>>>>> resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire >>>>>>> you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and an >>>> EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1pnedy7xO3Q/m/0ddHmvJ8BgAJ>
Yes, and did not fulfill the conditions set.
All you did was compare prices.
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>> EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and >>>>>>>>> cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than >>>>>>>> an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable
ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain
control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them
wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling >>>>>> resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire >>>>>> you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and
an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1pnedy7xO3Q/m/0ddHmvJ8BgAJ>
On 2023-08-19 15:11, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/19/23 2:24 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubpa8b$jn7n$1...@dont-email.me>
The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/18/23 2:41 PM, David Higton wrote:
In message <ubon8c$dbr1$1...@dont-email.me>ago, no > > question about it, but making ourselves miserable for no
The Real Bev <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm certainly glad to be rid of the smog that we had 50 years
good purpose > > (enrichment of Al Gore is NOT a good purpose) seems
counterproductive.
evidence thatMaking ourselves miserable? In what way? I can't see any
any of this is making us miserable. I'll be interested to see your >>> > explanation of your words.
How about having to convert our economical gas-fired homes to
all-electric. Some of us don't actually need to heat our houses. We >>> don't do a lot of cooking. We shower at the gym. But we are really
pissed that we just bought a $1K gas stove which we expected to be
buried
in.
You won't be forced to convert to all-electric before you're ready to
do so. Legislation is not retroactive. New builds will have to be
all-electric, yes, but that doesn't affect you.
The intent is to require the conversion of existing homes from gas to electricity.
Really? And you're basing that claim on... ...what?
All it takes to shut off the gas is a decision and a big
switch. Not clear who's allowed to make that decision, and it's not
clear who's allowed to overturn it. But it's what the asshole greenies want and they seem to be really good at getting what they want.
Supporting evidence, please.
Nobody wanted to convert their cars to run on unleaded, but we all had
to replace our old cylinder heads with "smog heads" with hardened valve seats.
Ummmmmm.... ...because lead is POISONOUS TO HUMANS.
At some point we were required to install some sort of anti-NOX
device, which was later NOT required -- BUT the sticker placed on the instrument panel when the device was installed WAS required to be there.
That's... ...nicely vague.
Fortunately the shop that had installed the NOX device a decade or two previously found an appropriate sticker in the back of the manager's
desk drawer so we could continue to drive the 1968 Dodge van. Yes, it
IS insane. Yes, it WAS required. This is California. Idiots ruled by idiots.
Yeah... ...those "idiots" who decided that maybe having decent air to breathe was a good idea.
I live here only because the house is paid for, the property taxes are minimal (Thanks, Howard!), and all our friends and family live here. I once thought California was a good place. Now it's just a dump with a
few pretty places. And did I mention the hell-in-a-handbasket public school system? Don't get me started.
Who could stop you?
Your gas stove emits pollutants inside your home at levels that would be >> illegal outdoors. You can carry on living in that as long as you like. >> We have an induction cooker.
I've lived with gas stoves and heaters for 80 years and I still ski and play tennis. Tell me more about this pollution of which you speak. I find it interesting that only recently has the poisonous nature of
natural gas been discovered.
"I've smoked for 85 years and I didn't get cancer".
BTW, did you know that you can actually be ELECTROCUTED by touching electric wires? Why were we not told about this earlier?
BTW, did you know that electrical codes are written to make that
possibility extremely unlikely.
How about having to get rid of the first NICE car we have ever had?
Again, you won't have to get rid of it until you're ready to do so.
But people who hang on to petrol-powered museum pieces may start to
find it difficult to buy petrol, as less of it gets used.
You're living in a fantasy world where you are a grown-up and no longer need a nanny to look after you. Here in California things are very different. I am unable to buy a kitchen sink faucet that will fill my sink in under 5 minutes. Theory has it that we just sort of sit there
and watch the water run down the drain for fun rather than filling a container with the amount of water we need so we need The State to save
us from ourselves. Our gasoline is different and more expensive, only part of the additional cost due to manufacture. Our jerry cans are very nearly useless.
Cite, please.
I love steam trains, but I wouldn't dream of trying to run a modern
railway with them.
How about all the other bullshit that supposedly greenifies ourWe have to separate out some of our waste. It's no big deal. I wish
world? Some cities, for instance, want our compostable scraps to be
put in
little bags and placed in the top of our yard waste containers. Other >>> cities want it put in loose. Others just put all the trash in one
big bin
and let people (presumably otherwise unemployable) sort it out at the >>> plant. They can't even agree on how to properly deal with table scraps. >>
there were some more categories.
It's no problem at all, but what gripes me is that the assholes make
rules without actually thinking about their implementation or effects.
How about increasing the density of our suburbs so that people won't
have
to drive so far to go to work?
Really? You want to live more crowded?
No. I live in a cheap suburb with 50x150 lots and 1KSF houses. It's
now legal to put 4-unit apartment houses in my single-family
neighborhood as well as "accessory dwelling units? (granny flats),
thereby increasing the density here as well as in the center of the city where bigger and bigger multi-unit buildings are going up. "Increasing the density" is a negative; I would have thought that was understood.
The State has ordered thus. Apparently the State can withhold some of
the sales tax money if the City tells the State to fuck off. My
feeling: we were here first. Tough luck if you want to live here --
get in line or move further out and build your own damn city.
But we digress...
And you won't even examine the fact that billionaires have been
gaming the system...
On 2023-08-24 10:30, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:14:05 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire
you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Not in this newsgroup you haven't.
Wrong.
Don't make me school you... ...again.
On 2023-08-25 13:05, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ucaisa$3gt9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>>> EVs wear
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or >>>>>>>>>>>>> against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>>
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and >>>>>>>>>>> cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight >>>>>>>>>> distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than >>>>>>>>>> an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable >>>>>>>>>> ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them >>>>>>>>> wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling >>>>>>>> resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire >>>>>>>> you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and >>>>> an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1pnedy7xO3Q/m/0ddHmvJ8BgAJ>
Yes, and did not fulfill the conditions set.
All you did was compare prices.
Ah, but I didn't dispute the premise about relative wear rates, Sunshine.
Stepped right into that one, didn't you?
:-)
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ucb4s7$6p06$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 13:05, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ucaisa$3gt9$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons EVs wear
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan
<nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds is not rare.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> costs, You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constantly doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trolls would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
tires more quickly is that--everything else being
equal--they weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... >>>>>>>>>>>> and cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds >>>>>>>>>>> to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as >>>>>>>>>>> well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity >>>>>>>>>>> and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight >>>>>>>>>>> distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better >>>>>>>>>>> than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable >>>>>>>>>>> ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more
massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them >>>>>>>>>> wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow
rolling resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a
50,000 mile tire you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire
and an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/1pnedy7xO3Q/m/0ddHmvJ8BgAJ>
Yes, and did not fulfill the conditions set.
All you did was compare prices.
Ah, but I didn't dispute the premise about relative wear rates, Sunshine.
Stepped right into that one, didn't you?
:-)
Not at all, I simply got you to admit you evaded the primary issue.
On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 09:03:25 -0400, Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 19:37:41 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 18:17, Governor Swill wrote:
PACKAGING/POWER/TECH/HANDLING:
Jason Cammisa, Lucid Air review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8&t=14s
WHY ELECTRIC CARS ARE ALWAYS QUICKER:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcn7tvESreI
RIVIAN TRUCK 10,000 MI/1 YEAR REVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg
RIVIAN SUV:
Center of gravity, effect of tires on range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjS0v0w9vpI
So you couldn't show one source that actually states what you claimed... >>>
...but have not carefully snipped.
Sometimes the information you want isn't in a single paragraph in the encyclopedia.
The first one describes the Lucid as a luxury sedan comparable to an S class with handling
superior to the BMW M5. This addresses your request for ONE source to show EVs handling
better than ICEs.
The second video explains why EVs are so much quicker than comparable ICEs. This relates
also to performance, in this case, straight line power, a more American consideration of
performance.
The third video tells about living with an electric truck long term. Self explanatory.
Consider it bonus info.
The fourth compares another Rivian model and states very specifically the effect of the
inherent low center of gravity on EV handling. Also a dissertation about handling that
explains how, specifically, handling is improved by the inherent design of an EV
If you couldn't be bothered to check out the resources provided, you have no reason to
complain that resources weren't provided.
If you're going to move goal posts, you have no business complaining about context.
The simple fact is, EVs have superior handling qualities compared to similar ICE vehicles.
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 19:37:41 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-23 18:17, Governor Swill wrote:
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 09:23:24 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Alright.
Show ONE source that claims that battery EVs handle "better" than
equivalently-sized (by carrying capacities, not overall weight) ICE
vehicles.
Just one.
Moving the goal posts? Start here:
Put back the context.
copy
Be fair:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for >>>>>>>>>>>> yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken >>>>>>>>>>> with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack >>>>>>>>>>> rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with >>>>>>>>>>> first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this. >>>>>>>>>>
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric >>>>>>>>>> motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own motor. The >>>>>>>>> ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use up tires >>>>>>>> more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons EVs wear >>>>>> tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear fast >>> or slow.
Neither do you or you would have posted correct information instead of just spitting on
the sidewalk.
Alright.
Show ONE source that claims that battery EVs handle "better" than equivalently-sized (by carrying capacities, not overall weight) ICE
vehicles.
Just one.
/ copy
As you can see, the context is a lengthy discussion of tire wear with other points added.
You capped this discussion with "Alright.
"Show ONE source that claims that battery EVs handle "better" than equivalently-sized (by carrying capacities, not overall weight) ICE
vehicles.
"Just one."
You moved the goalpost from tire wear to EV handling. "battery EVs handle "better" than "
I provided four.
Isn't it interesting that suddenly you've chosen to remove it?
PACKAGING/POWER/TECH/HANDLING:
Jason Cammisa, Lucid Air review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8&t=14s
WHY ELECTRIC CARS ARE ALWAYS QUICKER:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcn7tvESreI
RIVIAN TRUCK 10,000 MI/1 YEAR REVIEW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr5x62MyAUg
RIVIAN SUV:
Center of gravity, effect of tires on range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjS0v0w9vpI
So you couldn't show one source that actually states what you claimed...
...but have not carefully snipped.
Sometimes the information you want isn't in a single paragraph in the encyclopedia.
The first one describes the Lucid as a luxury sedan comparable to an S class with handling
superior to the BMW M5. This addresses your request for ONE source to show EVs handling
better than ICEs.
The second video explains why EVs are so much quicker than comparable ICEs. This relates
also to performance, in this case, straight line power, a more American consideration of
performance.
The third video tells about living with an electric truck long term. Self explanatory.
Consider it bonus info.
The fourth compares another Rivian model and states very specifically the effect of the
inherent low center of gravity on EV handling. Also a dissertation about handling that
explains how, specifically, handling is improved by the inherent design of an EV
If you couldn't be bothered to check out the resources provided, you have no reason to
complain that resources weren't provided.
If you're going to move goal posts, you have no business complaining about context.
The simple fact is, EVs have superior handling qualities compared to similar ICE vehicles.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uboj3t$ch7s$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, You're already >>>>>> looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit for yourself >>>> before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size.
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
The average weight of an ICE car is 3000#, the average weight of an EV
is over 5000#
which means when we have enough... existing parking garages will have to
cut the amount of parking by about 45% since the structure wasn't
designed for that much weight.
Going to do wonders for trying to find parking in an urban environment.
But that's ok, because the extra space between cars will help reduce the spread of fire when your EV decides it's done and the battery pack
starts burning.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls would >>>>>>>>>>>>> insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>> EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and
cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than >>>>>>> an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable
ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain
control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them
wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling
resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire
you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and
an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc1809$28hmm$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 06:35, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8d9$b55s$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>>> guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>>> install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician >>>>>>> connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money >>>>>>> - pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's
protected from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the >>>>> basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Ok, what has changed?
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or
electric
clothes dryer.
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where
it's
needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to
plug
and unplug things each time you need to switch.
Do you always post when you're drunk?
Let facing facts he can't contest Alan resorts to inventing excuses to
accept his delusions instead.
Where have I ever suggest that you would use ONE receptacle for both
purposes.
Because you have to?
otherwise it's a code violation.
What I've pointed out that it is a very standard kind of installation
for an electrician to complete.
Not really, generally electricians aren't generally called to run a
major power line until there is an extensive remodel going on.
The costs to install such a receptacle are readily available and I'm
sorry, but it is NOT NEAR the numbers you've been bullshitting.
Sure, and when you stop looking at the costs for homes under
construction,
then you might have a clear idea of just how expensive that will be
to do.
Free hint: It's very easy to add such things to a home while it is being >>> constructed.. It's a LOT harder to do with it's a completed occupied
home
with some unknown electrical system that might never have been
designed for
that much draw much less whether the main electrical panel will even
support
adding such a line.
Instead, you just wave your hands in the air and tell people to "do
it". as
if that will somehow alter the reality.
Hell, you don’t even know the NEC requirements, but somehow you think
you're
qualified to know how much it will cost to add to an existing system.
Yes, you produced numbers but unless you're talking a home still in the
early stages of construction.. those numbers don't mean shit.
Now you're just lying.
And when confronted with facts he can't contest Alan resorts to simple
denial as if that is going to alter reality.
I gave you a website that explicitly gave costs for installation on an
existing home.
Yea.. for a light switch or a standard duplex receptacle.
Adding a dedicated 40/50A 240v line is a whole different proposition particularly in an occupied building.
Now grow up.
You need to.
Come back when you're sober.
I'm totally sober, and I am certainly better qualified to speak on this subject than you are.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uc8tku$3mlh4$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:16, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57ra$2vg3q$7@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service >>>>>>>>>>> panel is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>> "dust, dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling.Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind >>>>>>>> (the KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in
the power being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load..
it's going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house,
then all I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
No, I don't. I'm perfectly willing to accept some homes will be
simple easy and quick....
Yes.
Your entire argument has been that all these generalities apply all
the time.
Wrong. What I've contests is that your generalities apply all the time.
I am the one pointing out all the exceptions to your generalities and
WHY they are exceptions.. only to be told they don't matter. As if that
makes them go away.
...BUT not all homes are going to be that way. Something you wont
admit.
<crickets>
Indeed until about the mid 2000s were 200A panels largely standard in
home construction. Before that you're looking at 100A-150A.. which by
your own source means you may need a main panel upgrade. Which is
going to be an added expense, and the older your home is the more
expensive that upgrade could become.
Or a secondary panel...
Only if you have a second structure to put it on.
Are you going to build a whole new free standard garage for your EV car?
What's the cost of THAT going to be, assuming zoning ordinances will
even allow it?
You get that that can be done, right?
Nope. You can only have one meter on a residential structure since you
can only have one means of power disconnect. So you would have to build
a whole second building to hold both the meter and the charger. How much
do you suppose that will cost?
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York
being at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't
have modern wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with
wiring compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you
are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new
circuits into a home with old wiring.
As long as you don't change the main panel.
So install a secondary panel.
So you're going to build another garage as a separate building?
The problem is those older panels may not support that additional
load, even assuming you can find the proper breakers for some of them
that have long since been discontinued. Then let's not even get into
those that have been found to be dangerous and unreliable. Which many
electricians won't even touch because if something happens.. anything
happens... their new work will be blamed even if it had nothing to do
with the cause of the failure.
So install a secondary panel.
Building another stand alone garage?
But hey.. you just totally and utterly ignore such issues, because
real life situations have nothing to do with what you're calling for.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because
you have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of
mine had a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the
original cloth insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV
power line to that home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the
table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
Yep, and there are a whole hell of a lot of edge cases.
Nope. That's WHY they're called "edge cases".
And no limit are put on these 'edge cases' they can run 49.9999% and
since the article only speaks of 'most homes' the 50.0001% of the homes
that it applies to are all it applies to.
meanwhile given the average age of a home.. there are a LOT of these
'edge cases'.
Something you continue to refuse to accept as proven by your denial of
them throughout this post.
That's why number you see online are based on a LOT of assumptions
and while they might be typical for most people.. a whole lot of
other people will find they don't even come close to being accurate
for their specific conditions.
Oh, but that's right, you don't want to discuss any condition that
doesn't favor your agenda.
I have no agenda. Sorry.
Then why did you bring up the topic, and continue to push it in the face
of your ignorance of it?
Meanwhile, we still have rentals, leased, apartments, townhouses,
on-street parking and lack of garages to address..
Rental units can be outfitted with chargers by their owners,
Assuming the owner wants to do so, and WHO do you think is going to end
up paying for that.
People are complaining now about the lack of affordable housings... so
let's bump their rental rate even higher?
Further given the string of massive fires by EVs as the owner would I
as can townhouses and houses without garages can still have chargers
on the outside of the home.
Where?
What massive area of extra parking do you think exists to support such,
and as noted above how expensive will it be for you to use them, because you're certainly NOT going to be charging at cost... no you are going to
be paying your landlord a handsome profit as well.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8d9$b55s$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use a >>>>>>>> commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I
guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician
install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician
connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - pre >>>>> dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected
from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but
perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Ok, what has changed?
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or
electric
clothes dryer.
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where it's needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to plug
and unplug things each time you need to switch.
The costs to install such a receptacle are readily available and I'm
sorry, but it is NOT NEAR the numbers you've been bullshitting.
Sure, and when you stop looking at the costs for homes under construction, then you might have a clear idea of just how expensive that will be to do.
Free hint: It's very easy to add such things to a home while it is being constructed.. It's a LOT harder to do with it's a completed occupied home with some unknown electrical system that might never have been designed for that much draw much less whether the main electrical panel will even
support
adding such a line.
Instead, you just wave your hands in the air and tell people to "do it". as if that will somehow alter the reality.
Hell, you don’t even know the NEC requirements, but somehow you think you're
qualified to know how much it will cost to add to an existing system.
Yes, you produced numbers but unless you're talking a home still in the
early stages of construction.. those numbers don't mean shit.
In fact, I bet most of those numbers predate the sharp increase in wiring costs. 50 feet of 6/3 is now selling for about $250-$300
But if you go with in it bulk say from an electrical contractor you could
get it for maybe $200 assuming no markup from the contractor.
HOW much did you say it would cost again?
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wire-Building-Wires/6/N-5yc1vZc57aZ1z0qyv2
You have a furnished home.. you will have to move things away from the wall in question. Punch holes in the dry wall to gain access, route the cable, repair the drywall, repaint, clean and put everything back, while dealing with the occupants.
Hell, the installation cost of a hot water heater is more than what you
cited and it's just a simple swap.
No, sir, you MIGHT be able to get those prices during construction but
in an
occupied house.. not a chance in hell.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8rq$b55s$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 06:31, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublrtv$3sqta$3@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:44, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublh72$3r5fh$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 09:12, News wrote:
On 8/17/2023 11:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed? >>>>>>>>
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Sure, install the terminal and interconnect and home run AFTER
THE FACT and charge in your kitchen, right, MORON.
You get that the same TYPE of outlet can be installed anywhere in
a home, right?
Sure, and all you need is deep enough pockets.
Well Alan your 150Amp panel wont support this load given your
current electrical system, so we're going to have to upgrade to a
200-225 Amp panel, then we have to update all the wiring to current
code as required by the electrical code
Cite, please!
Load calculations.
That's not a cite.
Builders don't install bigger more expensive power panels unless they
have to.. and it's going to be a cost extra. Which means you probably
aren't going to have enough extra to add a 240V 50A long term draw to
most existing breaker panels. At least not without risking a lot of
nuance trips of the main breaker.. which have a pretty short trip
life and replacements are expensive.
So you install a second panel just for the new circuit.
Straw man.
That could be possible, but would involve running a second feeder line
which means a utility charge.
Then it wouldn't be allowed on a single residential structure as you
must have a single means of disconnect. You could only do that if you
have a secondary building such as a detached garage or shed. Further
that meter would have it's own bill and all the fixed costs associated
with such a bill whether it used a lot of power or only a little.
So unless you want/have a second building, or a power pole in your yard (since you can't hang the breaker box on the utilities' pole). In which
case local ordinances and zoning come into play and depending on them
may require a variance which may or may not be granted.
So no, it's not really a straw man.
Next we will need to tear down parts of your walls to run the
cable, and correct the wiring as necessary. and then install a
subpanel and the associated wiring for the charger. We need zoning
approval, the house can not be occupied between when the work
starts as that would be illegal with no electrical power and then
the government inspectors have to approve the work and the power
company finally returns to restore power once they get all the
necessary documents and certifications. So you will have to find
somewhere else to stay for about 1-2 weeks, but it could be as much
as 3 weeks and initial estimate will be $12K-$20K for job. But we
can't even touch the job until you get a permit and authorization
to have this work performed, and perform a full electrical audit to
determine the full scope of work to be performed which will cost
$1,200. At last check the permit department has a 4-6 week back
log... What? You already sold your old car, and you need the
charger installed this weekend? Ever consider getting a bicycle?
I love these people who think they can just slap in a high demand
appliance and it will be quick, easy, and cheap to do.
I think that you have not a single actual fact to back up that pile
of bullshit.
Other than having done it.
Prove it.
What sort of proof would you find acceptable?
I drew up and submitted the electrical plans for a friend's home and got
them approved without change. I did the complete wiring of that home to
code, and passed inspection without issue and the comment that it was
one of the better wiring jobs the inspector had ever seen, that he has
never had any issue with that wiring, or that I including capped runs of conduit to the breaker panel to allow additions to his electrical system including conduits that run outside so he can easily add external
circuits for sheds, barns or anything else he might require.
No, I don’t have ready access to that paperwork, and even if I did I
have no interest in sharing it with some ignorant idiot.
I've done it. You've merely looked at a few articles on the internet.
Who cooks with electricity anyway, except you, DOLT.
How is this even relevant?
If you don't have an electric stove.. then you don't have the high
capacity plug there to use.... even if you could.
How stupid are you to think I'm suggesting you would use THAT
PARTICULAR PLUG?
because otherwise you would be in violation of the NEC.
I mean you did claim to be a competent electrician right?
Nope.
Then maybe you should STFU until you at least know something about the subject?
How would having a second receptacle of the TYPE used for a stove or
dryer violate the NEC?
Because it's not allowed on any circuit over 20A.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8mo$b55s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 06:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublroe$3sqta$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:29, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg5a$3r264$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, >>>>>>>>>> use a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Sure, sparky. Go for it.
And if you need more:
<https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/>
Level 2 chargers there from $400.
<https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/collections/ev-chargers/products/smart-home-ev-charger-ul-listed>
Up to 40A charging on just a 220/240V plug.
Sure, $10,000 later we've got that installed.
LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL!
$10,000?
To have the same plug you'd use for an electric stove installed?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Great, I'm sure your wife will be just thrilled as you move those
range out into the middle of the floor so you can unhook it to hook
in the cable going to your charger and then run that cable through
the house, and let's not forget you will be unable to close the
door or window you're going to feed that cable through. Then in the
morning, you get to get up early and put it all back, or it's going
to be a cold breakfast because the range isn't hooked up.
Any other stupidity you would like to display?
What makes you think that because it's the same TYPE of plug you'd
use for a stove, that I'm suggesting you use the same physcal OUTLET
for both purposes?
To do otherwise would violate the NEC 210.23 the only exception would
be to unplug one appliance to plug in another NEC 210.23C
Are you suggesting a house can't have more than one outlet of the type
necessary to plug in an electric stove?
No, but EACH one will require an INDIVIDUAL cable be run to the breaker
box.
So if you want to install a new outlet as you suggest.. you have to run
a NEW line for it. You can NOT tap into an existing line. It's Code violation.
I'm pointing out that this is basic wiring that any competent
electrician can complete.
If they were competent they would turn you down flat.
Why?
See below
It doesn't require special skills or special permits.
No, just risking their license and a boat load of liability.
Crickets
'Wiring a 220/240 volt outlet for an electric clothes dryer or range
[or a Level 2 EV charger] is not really any harder than wiring a
standard outlet, but it can cost more because the electrician may
need to run conduit, reorganize circuit breakers in the main panel,
or install a new circuit breaker. The electrician will price his
work according to the length of cable that needs to be run and the
amount of labor time he anticipates.
Average costs for a journeyman electrician to install a 220/240-volt
outlet is about $300.'
<https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-project-costs-1152463>
A low power outlet or switch is a far different thing than a high
powered load run to the other end of the house.
That is specifically talking about a high-powered load run.
Nope.. light switch or 15amp outlet which can be typically tied into an existing lighting or outlet circuit in the immediate are.
What you are talking about requires a run ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE
BREAKER BOX... that is significantly different.
Further I would note that such an installation would NOT be suitable for
a long term high draw system such as a level one charger. Unless you
like the breaker tripping all the time.
I'm not talking about patching into an accessible branch or lighting
circuit
But your source is, whether you know it or not.
See, this is the whole problem.. the people like you are pushing this
thing, even though you have absolutely NO clue of what it will actually involve.. yet you think you know enough to force it on everyone else.
What you want, however is going to require a run ALL THE WAY TO THE
MAIN BREAKER BOX WITH A HEAVY GAUGE CABLE.
Which is precisely what was being discussed in my quote.
No, it's not.
"fishing new cable to a power source,"
What that means is finding a local lighting or branch circuit you can
tap into.. NOT necessarily running a line back to the breaker box.
Apples and Oranges.
Sober up.
Educate yourself.
'The cost to run electricity to a shed, garage, or shop is $10 toAgain.. a low power feeder hooked into an accessible 15-20a branch
$25 per linear foot or $500 to $3,800 on average for 50 to 150 feet
of underground line.'
<https://homeguide.com/costs/cost-to-run-electric-to-garage-shed-or-shop> >>>
circuit.
Nope. Were do you get this straw man from?
Because it doesn't factor in the cost of the home run, nor does it
factor in a high capacity load.
That is merely the cost to run the wire from the house to the shed..
does NOTHING for hooking it up or doing any electrical work inside the
shed.
If you looked further down you would see
So your numbers are bullshit.
No, my number are reality. Now if you want to install a 120V 5amp
charger.. that could be done for the prices you're talking about.
Anything more than that.. and your price is going to go up.. a lot.
Why?
Because that's all you could add to an existing lighting or branch
circuit without excessive nuisance trips.
My examples specifically talk about installing a circuit and
receptacle of the kind necessary to carry the loads under discussion.
Oh, ok.. then let's run the numbers from your site.
"An electric car charging station costs $750 to $2,600, including a
Level 2 charger, 240V outlet, wiring, and wall mounting."
"Main panel size – Homes with less than 200-amp service typically
require an upgrade to run electricity to a shed or garage.
The cost to replace an electrical panel is $1,400 to $2,800 to upgrade
from a 100-amp to a 200-amp panel."
"Labor – Hiring an electrician costs $50 to $130 per hour, plus a $100
to $200 call-out fee, which typically covers the first hour."
"Materials – The panel's amperage and distance from the shed or garage determine the wire size needed.
Electrical wiring costs $0.10 to $4.00 per linear foot for the material alone, depending on the type and gauge."
Materials should be factored into the main cost above, but I included it
for those unusual circumstances where a longer than typical run might be required.
Now some of those charges overlap and it all assumes an electrical
system of fairly recent vintage. It also depends on where you are
located as rates vary wildly by where you are.
Now a lot of older homes come with a 100A-150A service. Meaning they are going to need an electrical panel upgrade before you can even think of a
lvl 2 charger.
And all of those pre-supposes a garage to put it in. You could install
it outside, that that presupposes a drive way. and adds a lot of other factors to the decisions, Such as a weather tight charger is going to
cost you more than one you would install in an interior location, risk
of damage or vandalism, weathering issues. etc.
Plus if you do a main panel upgrade you may have to vacate your home
during the process as the power will be turned off for the whole time.
To suggest it will be simple and cheap is to ignore the large number of
homes for which this is NOT true. About the only time it would be cheap
and quick is if you have a 200A panel located in the garage. Otherwise
it's crap shoot just how expensive it will be, but basically the older
the home and the further from the garage the breaker panel is.. the more likely that price will increase sometimes drastically. Because while the panel swap can be relatively straight forward.. when isn't really
considered is that ALL the wiring MUST be brought into compliance with
the current code book. Which means if you have three way switches
without a neutral, you may have to run those.. If you have 2 prong
outlets without a ground.. you will need to run a ground. You will also
have to change all those outlets. In short, you will have to bring the
whole home into modern code compliance. That can be an expensive bill
unless your home is fairly new.
let's just say, you have little to no idea of what it would actually
take, and you think because you've seen a few posts on the internet that makes you knowledgeable about the field or that you can even recognize
the assumptions being made within those posts.
Hell, you don't even know enough to realize you can't simply daisy chain another plug with your stove or drier plug. So how can you possibly intelligently debate the costs and factors that would go into actually installing a level 2 charger in the wide variety of homes that are out
there. I know a neighbor that still uses the original 60A fuse based
panel, with 2 wire outlet w/o a ground.
Good luck bring that home into compliance to upgrade to a 200A service
panel.
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or against >>>>>>>>>>> anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and finance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>>
You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>> EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and cost >>>>>>>>> quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for
handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than an >>>>>>>> equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable ride. >>>>>>>> This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain
control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them wear >>>>>>> fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling >>>>>> resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire >>>>>> you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and an >>> EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
Already done... ...at least twice.
On 2023-08-25 06:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8tku$3mlh4$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:16, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57ra$2vg3q$7@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service >>>>>>>>>>>> panel is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>> "dust, dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the kind >>>>>>>>> (the KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would result in the >>>>>>>>> power being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. >>>>>>>> it's going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house, then >>>>>> all I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities.
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
No, I don't. I'm perfectly willing to accept some homes will be simple >>>> easy and quick....
Yes.
Your entire argument has been that all these generalities apply all the
time.
Wrong. What I've contests is that your generalities apply all the time.
I am the one pointing out all the exceptions to your generalities and WHY
they are exceptions.. only to be told they don't matter. As if that makes
them go away.
...BUT not all homes are going to be that way. Something you wont
admit.
<crickets>
Indeed until about the mid 2000s were 200A panels largely standard in
home construction. Before that you're looking at 100A-150A.. which by
your own source means you may need a main panel upgrade. Which is going >>>> to be an added expense, and the older your home is the more expensive
that upgrade could become.
Or a secondary panel...
Only if you have a second structure to put it on.
Are you going to build a whole new free standard garage for your EV car?
What's the cost of THAT going to be, assuming zoning ordinances will even
allow it?
You get that that can be done, right?
Nope. You can only have one meter on a residential structure since you
can only have one means of power disconnect. So you would have to build a
whole second building to hold both the meter and the charger. How much do
you suppose that will cost?
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York
being at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't
have modern wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with
wiring compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but you >>>>>> are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new circuits >>>>> into a home with old wiring.
As long as you don't change the main panel.
So install a secondary panel.
So you're going to build another garage as a separate building?
You make the most absurd leaps.
You don't have to have another building to have a secondary panel.
The problem is those older panels may not support that additional load, >>>> even assuming you can find the proper breakers for some of them that
have long since been discontinued. Then let's not even get into those
that have been found to be dangerous and unreliable. Which many
electricians won't even touch because if something happens.. anything
happens... their new work will be blamed even if it had nothing to do
with the cause of the failure.
So install a secondary panel.
Building another stand alone garage?
You don't have to have another building to have a secondary panel.
But hey.. you just totally and utterly ignore such issues, because real >>>> life situations have nothing to do with what you're calling for.
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional.. because >>>>>> you have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A neighbor of >>>>>> mine had a home that used a 60A service using fuses and the original >>>>>> cloth insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a 50amp EV power line >>>>>> to that home for ANY of the prices you've brought to the table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
Yep, and there are a whole hell of a lot of edge cases.
Nope. That's WHY they're called "edge cases".
And no limit are put on these 'edge cases' they can run 49.9999% and
since the article only speaks of 'most homes' the 50.0001% of the homes
that it applies to are all it applies to.
49.999% is not an "edge case".
meanwhile given the average age of a home.. there are a LOT of these
'edge cases'.
Something you continue to refuse to accept as proven by your denial of
them throughout this post.
You continue to refuse to post an figures to back up your bullshit.
That's why number you see online are based on a LOT of assumptions and >>>> while they might be typical for most people.. a whole lot of other
people will find they don't even come close to being accurate for their >>>> specific conditions.
Oh, but that's right, you don't want to discuss any condition that
doesn't favor your agenda.
I have no agenda. Sorry.
Then why did you bring up the topic, and continue to push it in the face
of your ignorance of it?
What topic did I bring up?
On 2023-08-22 05:52, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1809$28hmm$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 06:35, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8d9$b55s$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 05:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls5c$3sqta$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 11:22, Governor Swill wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 08:58:49 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>
On 2023-08-17 06:50, Scout wrote:
"JAB" <here@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:ubjdkg$3ehlm$1@dont-email.me...
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
At the article's hoped-for price point of $1500
Your wet behind the ears....$500.00
Btw, typical person can use 110 volt charger, and if needed, use >>>>>>>>>>> a
commerical charger.
14,781 miles per year = 40 miles/day
Great.. and if your are one the 50% who drive more than that, I >>>>>>>>>> guess
you're just shit outta luck...
Or you use a plug-in 240/220 charger after having an electrician >>>>>>>>> install
one...
Doesn't even have to go through your panel. Have the electrician >>>>>>>> connect between your
meter and the wall, run conduit to wherever (save time and money - >>>>>>>> pre
dig the conduit
ditch), install a home dryer/stove 220. As long as it's protected >>>>>>>> from
rain, all is good.
I think some of that would depend on local electrical codes, but >>>>>>> perhaps.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the >>>>>> basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost >>>>>> estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Post this again when you sober up.
While local electrical codes may offer some slight variances..
overwhelmingly they are solidly based on the NEC and is generally the
basis of any discussion of electrical installation and general cost
estimates where the specific particulars are unknown.. such as a
conversation in usenet about installing a high draw EV charger.
Ok, what has changed?
The simple fact is that there are high draw EV chargers that can be
plugged in to the same KIND of receptacle as an electric stove or
electric
clothes dryer.
Sure... if you want to run a cord through the house and out to where
it's
needed, and you don't mind having to go behind the stove or drier to
plug
and unplug things each time you need to switch.
Do you always post when you're drunk?
Let facing facts he can't contest Alan resorts to inventing excuses to
accept his delusions instead.
Where have I ever suggest that you would use ONE receptacle for both
purposes.
Because you have to?
otherwise it's a code violation.
Please cite that code...
...or admit you're just a drunk liar.
What I've pointed out that it is a very standard kind of installation
for an electrician to complete.
Not really, generally electricians aren't generally called to run a major
power line until there is an extensive remodel going on.
A single circuit for a 240/220 receptacle isn't a "major power line".
The costs to install such a receptacle are readily available and I'm >>>>> sorry, but it is NOT NEAR the numbers you've been bullshitting.
Sure, and when you stop looking at the costs for homes under
construction,
then you might have a clear idea of just how expensive that will be to >>>> do.
Free hint: It's very easy to add such things to a home while it is
being
constructed.. It's a LOT harder to do with it's a completed occupied
home
with some unknown electrical system that might never have been designed >>>> for
that much draw much less whether the main electrical panel will even
support
adding such a line.
Instead, you just wave your hands in the air and tell people to "do
it". as
if that will somehow alter the reality.
Hell, you don’t even know the NEC requirements, but somehow you think >>>> you're
qualified to know how much it will cost to add to an existing system.
Yes, you produced numbers but unless you're talking a home still in the >>>> early stages of construction.. those numbers don't mean shit.
Now you're just lying.
And when confronted with facts he can't contest Alan resorts to simple
denial as if that is going to alter reality.
I posted from a site that specifically cited numbers for post-construction upgrades
I gave you a website that explicitly gave costs for installation on an
existing home.
Yea.. for a light switch or a standard duplex receptacle.
Now you're lying again.
Adding a dedicated 40/50A 240v line is a whole different proposition
particularly in an occupied building.
No. It really isn't.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uclmc4$2d1bn$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:28, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8tku$3mlh4$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:16, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57ra$2vg3q$7@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:15, Scout wrote:
Except you assume your generalities are all true all the time.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc2q1l$2g017$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-22 06:01, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc1gct$29k0p$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 08:00, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubojbb$ch7s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 11:31, Governor Swill wrote:
The really funny bit is the fool thinks replacing a service >>>>>>>>>>>>> panel is a two day job.You think adding a pony panel is going to create a lot of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dust, dirt or...assuming that the basement even has a ceiling. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Assuming you don't need a panel upgrade.
No occupants? No need worry about dust, dirt or noise? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For a day or two's work? Nope.
noise"?
LOL!
ROTFLMAO!
Not just a two day job.
His actual words were "days on end"...
two days...
So you agree with me
Nope.
You actually claimed that to add a simple receptacle of the >>>>>>>>>> kind (the KIND) used for electric dryers or ranges would
result in the power being out for "days on end".
Have the personal integrity to admit that.
Yep, because if you need a panel upgrade to service that load.. >>>>>>>>> it's going to take time to do,
So that's a hypothetical.
No, shit Sherlock, unless you want to give me a SPECIFIC house,
then all I, or you for that matter, can talk about is generalities. >>>>>>
No, I don't. I'm perfectly willing to accept some homes will be
simple easy and quick....
Yes.
Your entire argument has been that all these generalities apply all
the time.
Wrong. What I've contests is that your generalities apply all the time.
I am the one pointing out all the exceptions to your generalities and
WHY they are exceptions.. only to be told they don't matter. As if
that makes them go away.
...BUT not all homes are going to be that way. Something you wont
admit.
<crickets>
Indeed until about the mid 2000s were 200A panels largely standard
in home construction. Before that you're looking at 100A-150A..
which by your own source means you may need a main panel upgrade.
Which is going to be an added expense, and the older your home is
the more expensive that upgrade could become.
Or a secondary panel...
Only if you have a second structure to put it on.
Are you going to build a whole new free standard garage for your EV car? >>>
What's the cost of THAT going to be, assuming zoning ordinances will
even allow it?
You get that that can be done, right?
Nope. You can only have one meter on a residential structure since
you can only have one means of power disconnect. So you would have to
build a whole second building to hold both the meter and the charger.
How much do you suppose that will cost?
The average age of a home in the US is 46 years old with New York >>>>>>> being at 63 years old. So are there a lot of old homes that don't >>>>>>> have modern wiring or even close to it? Damn straight.
To simply wave your hands in the air and assume a 200A panel with >>>>>>> wiring compliant with the latest NEC is to be delusional... but
you are.
And it doesn't matter. Because you are allowed to install new
circuits into a home with old wiring.
As long as you don't change the main panel.
So install a secondary panel.
So you're going to build another garage as a separate building?
You make the most absurd leaps.
You don't have to have another building to have a secondary panel.
The problem is those older panels may not support that additional
load, even assuming you can find the proper breakers for some of
them that have long since been discontinued. Then let's not even
get into those that have been found to be dangerous and unreliable.
Which many electricians won't even touch because if something
happens.. anything happens... their new work will be blamed even if
it had nothing to do with the cause of the failure.
So install a secondary panel.
Building another stand alone garage?
You don't have to have another building to have a secondary panel.
Except you're not adding a secondary panel. A secondary panel is one
that is connected to the primary panel, and in this case, we've already established that the primary panel is incapable of carrying that load,
What you are doing is adding a second primary panel which as to go on
it's OWN structure for residential use. NEC requirement.
So, yes, if you want to add another meter, and thus a second primary
panel, it CAN NOT be mounted to the house, nor can it provide any power
to the house which already has a primary panel.
You don't like it take up with the the NEC panel and your local
authorities, until then. You can't do it.
But hey.. you just totally and utterly ignore such issues, because
real life situations have nothing to do with what you're calling for. >>>>>
There why estimating a job such as this is so conditional..
because you have no idea of the age or condition of the home. A
neighbor of mine had a home that used a 60A service using fuses
and the original cloth insulated wiring. Yea, lets see you add a >>>>>>> 50amp EV power line to that home for ANY of the prices you've
brought to the table.
That's called an "edge case", sonny.
Yep, and there are a whole hell of a lot of edge cases.
Nope. That's WHY they're called "edge cases".
And no limit are put on these 'edge cases' they can run 49.9999% and
since the article only speaks of 'most homes' the 50.0001% of the
homes that it applies to are all it applies to.
49.999% is not an "edge case".
Exactly my point.
So why are you insisting that they are merely "edge cases"?
Given the average age of homes.. there is a MASSIVE number of your so
called "edge cases".
meanwhile given the average age of a home.. there are a LOT of these
'edge cases'.
<crickets>
Something you continue to refuse to accept as proven by your denial
of them throughout this post.
You continue to refuse to post an figures to back up your bullshit.
Why should I? Unless you're willing to do the same, which you've shown
time and time again that you aren't, why should I go to the effort which
YOU refuse to even consider?
You are the one claiming there are only a few 'edge cases', therefore
it's up to you to show this is the case. I've already produced strong evidence to show otherwise. ie average home edge.
Think about it. With an average age of 43 years, that means there could
be a home that is 86 years old for even home built this year, or 2 homes
that are 64 years old and so one. That means there are a lot of old
homes, and even a 43 year old home (median) would face numerous issues
with such an upgrade as virtually ALL of them would have panels of less
than 200A capacity. Indeed the typical panel size around that time would
be a 125A which isn't adequate. So right off they would also need a
server panel upgrade. Luckily for them there isn't to much wrong that
would require upgrades other than every single 3 way lighting would need
new electrical cables run as the NEC now requires that all switch boxes
have a neutral and generally during that era that wasn't done with 3 way switches. Then you're going to need to run new cables to the drive,
stove and any other high power device as 3 wire 120/240 is no longer
allowed and you must run a 4 wire cable. then of course, you will have
to change the receptacle to a 4 wire, which means you will need to
change the service lead to a 4 wire.
Starting to get the idea? I doubt it, because you don't know shit about
this stuff... and you don’t care. You have an opinion and that's good enough.. for you.
Well guess what, the local inspectors and government agencies don't
fucking care about your opinion. They DO care that work is in compliance
with the NEC and local codes and that means if you fuck with anything upstream of a device be it a sub panel, main panel, or even running a
new electrical cable then IT and everything hooked to it MUST be brought
into compliance with currently electrical code.
You can't just slap something in and declare it's 'good enough'. no.. it
and everything connected to it has to be approved, inspected, and passed
for the CURRENT electrical code.
Something you UTTERLY ignore, and continue to IGNORE.
That's why number you see online are based on a LOT of assumptions
and while they might be typical for most people.. a whole lot of
other people will find they don't even come close to being accurate
for their specific conditions.
Oh, but that's right, you don't want to discuss any condition that
doesn't favor your agenda.
I have no agenda. Sorry.
Then why did you bring up the topic, and continue to push it in the
face of your ignorance of it?
What topic did I bring up?
Apparently you don't even remember what you're talking about. So let's
just say the topic is the depth of your stupidity and ignorance.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:uclmd1$2cn32$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or >>>>>>>>>>>> against
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight.
But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not rare.
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>> use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously true. >>>>>>>>>>>>
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>
reasons EVs wear
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and >>>>>>>>>> cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds >>>>>>>>> to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as >>>>>>>>> well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity >>>>>>>>> and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight
distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better
than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable >>>>>>>>> ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more
massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them >>>>>>>> wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow
rolling resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 >>>>>>> mile tire you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire
and an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
Already done... ...at least twice.
We acknowledge your inability to cite where in your references they
support the claims you've made.
On 2023-08-30 06:05, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uclmd1$2cn32$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>>> EVs wear
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 seconds is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not rare.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're constantly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly because of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our trolls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles use >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously >>>>>>>>>>>>>> true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan? I'm not arguing for or >>>>>>>>>>>>> against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>>
tires more quickly is that--everything else being equal--they >>>>>>>>>>>> weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... and >>>>>>>>>>> cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds to >>>>>>>>>> help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as well >>>>>>>>>> as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity and >>>>>>>>>> without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight >>>>>>>>>> distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better than >>>>>>>>>> an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable >>>>>>>>>> ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more massive, >>>>>>>>>> tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them >>>>>>>>> wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow rolling >>>>>>>> resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a 50,000 mile tire >>>>>>>> you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire and >>>>> an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
Already done... ...at least twice.
We acknowledge your inability to cite where in your references they
support the claims you've made.
I've posted the link to the previous post at least twice.
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:ucnis9$2opcq$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-30 06:05, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uclmd1$2cn32$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-25 06:39, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc8to2$3mlh4$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-24 06:53, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc57nt$2vg3q$6@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-23 05:22, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:uc3s0h$2ovkl$1@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-21 18:45, Governor Swill wrote:
On Mon, 21 Aug 2023 10:06:36 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net>
wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubr2vh$viq6$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-19 04:23, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 21:27:51 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:You deflected away from the simple fact that one of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons EVs wear
On 2023-08-18 21:10, Governor Swill wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 13:08:28 -0700, Alan
<nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-18 11:16, Governor Swill wrote:But they are stunningly quicker. 0-60 in under 4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds is not rare.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 08:43:25 -0500, "Scout" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ubls3p$3sqta$5@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:52, Scout wrote:
Then there are high finance charges, insurance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> costs, You're
already
looking at your 2nd set of tires at 3 times the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost of standard.
Cite, please!
https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly
You know, you should really consider finding out this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit for
yourself
before promoting the latest geewhiz tech >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Further requests will be ignored.
And where are your bullshit cites for insurance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finance charges?
BWAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The reason they go through tires faster is that owners >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are so taken
with the stunning
acceleration of even cheap BEVs that they're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constantly doing jack
rabbit starts and
slamming on the brakes. This has been recognized as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an issue with
first time EV owners.
Early Tesla users broke transmissions regularly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of this.
Be fair:
EVs do tend to be heavier than IC cars of the same size. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The difference may not be as large as some of our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trolls would
insist...
...but taking out the IC drivetrain and putting in one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of electric
motors and a large battery pack does add weight. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I like the Rivian architecture. Each wheel has it's own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor. The
ultimate 4 wheel
drive!
None of that has anything to refute that heavier vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use up tires
more quickly.
Seriously: don't argue against things that are obviously >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true.
Wtf is your damage today, Alan?  I'm not arguing for or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> against
anything. I'm noting that I like Rivian's architecture. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
tires more quickly is that--everything else being
equal--they weigh MORE.
And the ultra low rolling resistance tires wear faster... >>>>>>>>>>>> and cost quite a
bit more.
Actually they wear longer being made out of stiffer compounds >>>>>>>>>>> to help achieve that rolling
ease. Easy rollers are notorious for being a poor choice for >>>>>>>>>>> handling on ICE cars because
they simply aren't sticky enough. The reason BEVs handle as >>>>>>>>>>> well as they do is because
the heavy batteries dramatically lower the center of gravity >>>>>>>>>>> and without a heavy engine at
one end or the other, can achieve perfect 50/50 f/r weight >>>>>>>>>>> distribution. Factor in modern
traction management systems, and BEVs usually handle better >>>>>>>>>>> than an equivalent ICE. This
gives sports car level handling with a big sedan comfortable >>>>>>>>>>> ride. This better handling
helps contribute to safety as it makes it easier to maintain >>>>>>>>>>> control over the vehicle.
The higher pressures require a stronger, therefore more
massive, tire. Thicker walls,
heavier belts, etc..
Dude.... ...just stop talking.
You clearly don't know a THING about tires and what makes them >>>>>>>>>> wear fast or slow.
I suppose you claim you do?
Tell me what is the wear ratings for your typical ultralow
rolling resistance tire using an an EV as opposed to say a
50,000 mile tire you might find on your average ICE?
Already done, sonny.
Then you don't know and you refuse to find out.
No, I mean I already provided specific examples of a regular tire
and an EV tire for the same EV in the exact same size.
No, you haven't. Look above.. there is absolutely nothing there.
otherwise cite the post you claim you did that in.
Already done... ...at least twice.
We acknowledge your inability to cite where in your references they
support the claims you've made.
I've posted the link to the previous post at least twice.
Which doesn't support what you claim.
On 2023-08-21 07:32, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubo8mo$b55s$4@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-18 06:15, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublroe$3sqta$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 10:29, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ublg5a$3r264$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-17 06:57, Scout wrote:
"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:ubjet1$3emc8$2@dont-email.me...
On 2023-08-16 14:16, News wrote:
On 8/16/2023 5:04 PM, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 14:55:02 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote:
Instead we have people like you ruling from on-high what the people MUST
do because you somehow thing you know more about their lives than they do.
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