I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos between
those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
and other family members still back in the U.S.
All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with Samsung Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their own
account.
The AT&T International Day Pass® would work, at a cost, of course:
-----------
"Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
have when you travel to over 210 countries.
Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same day
for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.
Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all other calls.
Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at home.
That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or cancel this
option anytime, but higher rates may apply.
Just a heads-up:
If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll be charged the per-day fee.
To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings to
turn off roaming or mobile data.
You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
cycle, even if you stay longer!"
--------
QUESTION:
I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background that
use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on this plan,
but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the internet, for
instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?
QUESTION:
And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or mobile
data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane mode, but wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?
I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.
On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos between
those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
and other family members still back in the U.S.
Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may themselves
use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app might want to
check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want to send the
current location for google tracking.
The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
charges you the $10 for that day.
You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe, like
it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive (say a
dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other hand,
WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just >>> discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos
between
those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
and other family members still back in the U.S.
Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
If your phone doesn't take two physical SIMs, many recent phones support eSIMs. You can either buy an eSIM from a network in a country you're visiting (although not all networks support eSIMs, and even fewer on
prepay), or you can buy an 'international' eSIM from somebody like Airalo.
I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.snip...
Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm trying to
figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and sending photos between
On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit
just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm
trying to figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and
sending photos between
those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
and other family members still back in the U.S.
Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with
Samsung Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their
own account.
The AT&T International Day Pass® would work, at a cost, of course:
-----------
"Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
have when you travel to over 210 countries.
Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same
day for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.
Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between
International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all
other calls.
Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at
home. That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or
cancel this option anytime, but higher rates may apply.
Just a heads-up:
If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll
be
charged the per-day fee.
To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings
to
turn off roaming or mobile data.
You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
cycle, even if you stay longer!"
--------
QUESTION:
I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background
that use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on
this plan, but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the
internet, for instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?
It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may
themselves use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app
might want to check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want
to send the current location for google tracking.
The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
charges you the $10 for that day.
QUESTION:
And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or
mobile data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane
mode, but wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?
There is a setting to turn off data and of roaming in the
configuration of the SIM.
I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.
You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe,
like it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive
(say a dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other
hand, WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.
Of course, there are other apps with their corresponding isolated
network that are used. Ask your relatives what apps they are using,
and get the same app installed.
There is Signal, Telegram, Google Chat, Threema...
Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾,
mutual messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your
SMS app supports it. Experiment before you travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services https://jibe.google.com/
(1) There is a more or less subtle colour difference that tells you
if your intended correspondent has RCS. For instance, you start to
type a message, and see a little label saying "SMS", you don't have
RCS for this conversation. Or you may see a label saying "RCS".
I just tried in my phone, and inside the text box, prior to typing, I
read "text message" (faint grey box) or "RCS message" (bluish box).
This is much better than a year ago, when the difference was subtle.
news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to
be a member of FaceBook, BTW.
'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in
the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation
of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.
So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or
text will be more reliable in other situations.
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
On 2023-07-24 20:58, Boris wrote:
I've never had to use a cell phone outside of the U.S.
Four members of our family are going to Germany and England to visit
just discovered (through DNA evidence) immediate family , and I'm
trying to figure out the best way to handle texting, calling, and
sending photos between
those of us who will be visiting Germany and England,
just discovered relatives residing in Germany and England,
and other family members still back in the U.S.
Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
All U.S. family members traveling have ATT mobile accounts, with
Samsung Android phones. Three are on the same account, one has their
own account.
The AT&T International Day Pass® would work, at a cost, of course:
-----------
"Our best international option! Use the talk, text & data you already
have when you travel to over 210 countries.
Add anytime. Pay $10 for the first 24 hours of coverage - only on the
days you use it. Use any additional lines on your account on the same
day for just $5 per day. Never pay for more than 10 days per bill.
Unlimited talk applies to calls to the U.S., or within and between
International Day Pass countries. Long distance rates apply to all
other calls.
Terms, fees, and other restrictions apply for the plan you use at
home. That includes Video Management. Go to myAT&T to remove or
cancel this option anytime, but higher rates may apply.
Just a heads-up:
If you have apps running in the background that use data, you'll
be
charged the per-day fee.
To avoid unintended data use, go to your device or app settings
to
turn off roaming or mobile data.
You will only be charged a maximum of 10 days per line each bill
cycle, even if you stay longer!"
--------
QUESTION:
I don't understand what is meant by apps running in the background
that use data will be charged the per-day fee. So even if I'm on
this plan, but not making calls, texting, etc., if I'm using the
internet, for instance, I'll be charged $10 for that day?
It means that some apps that you are not actually using, may
themselves use internet for whatever they see fit. Say, a bank app
might want to check if you got any new invoice. The phone might want
to send the current location for google tracking.
The instant there is a connection to send a single byte, your company
charges you the $10 for that day.
QUESTION:
And, to avoid unintended data use, I should turn off roaming or
mobile data. The only way I see to do this is to turn on Airplane
mode, but wouldn't this turn off ALL data capabilities?
There is a setting to turn off data and of roaming in the
configuration of the SIM.
I'm also considering WhatsAPP, but don't care for it much.
You should consider that WhatsApp is a must have in most of Europe,
like it or not. For many people, sending and SMS to you is expensive
(say a dollar per message). Even more if it has photos. On the other
hand, WhatsApp is gratis, provided you already have internet.
Thanks for the very informative reply, Carlos E. R. I'm leaving soon,
and came back to your information, and have a question.
My intention is to make things as easy as possible, especially for three
of us who use ATT here in the U.S. Right now, looks like the ATT International Day Pass is simple. I have not signed up for this plan,
yet. I'm considering WhatsApp.
All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet. We all here have internet
with ATT, but say I'm in Germany, out in the country, and I want to let
my German relatives that I stopped at the tavern down the road, I
suppose I have to connect with an ISP. Would we have to sign up with an
ISP in both Germany and England to be sure the internet connection was secure, and not just an insecure 'hotspot'?
I'll need to check email and banking, which I could do while back at a
hotel with wifi on a laptop.
As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
Better ask.
On 6 Aug 2023 14:13:06 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Technically, UK SIMs and EU ones are the same. A SIM bought in the UK will work accross Europe - and beyond.
As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
Better ask.
On 2023-08-06 09:02, Dave Royal wrote:
On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to >> be a member of FaceBook, BTW.
'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in
the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the
same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation >> of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.
So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask
questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or
text will be more reliable in other situations.
Many people never use groups on WhatsApp. To us, WA is just a glorified
SMS Messaging app, you can use it just the same :-)
Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
On 8/6/2023 6:42 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
On 6 Aug 2023 14:13:06 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Technically, UK SIMs and EU ones are the same. A SIM bought in the UK will >> work accross Europe - and beyond.
As I am from "here", meaning, the EU union, I have no experience with
getting a "local" SIM on Britain or Germany (I have my own permanent
card which is supposed to work on the entire union). Britain is no
longer on the EU, so a card bought there _might_ not work on Germany.
Better ask.
Pre-Brexit that was the case. Now, as you stated, many UK providers no
longer provide the same features in terms of EU roaming.
On 6 Aug 2023 14:06:39 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-08-06 09:02, Dave Royal wrote:Which is a neat illustration of my point to Boris - WhatsApp has very many users but 'using WhatsApp' means different things to each of them.
On 6 Aug 2023 02:43:23 -0000 (UTC) Boris wrote:
It sounds like you've not used WhatsApp. I suggest you familiarise
news:2333pjxjag.ln2@Telcontar.valinor:
All of my European and UK relatives use WhatsApp. So, I was thinking
maybe I should just do the same so as not to be 'difficult'. I read
that to use WhatsApp, one needs internet...
yourself with it and try out its features before you go. You don't have to >>> be a member of FaceBook, BTW.
'All' your European relatives, which of course includes those of them in >>> the UK, may 'use' WhatsApp, but I expect not everyone will use it for the >>> same things. I suspect (and I have no evidence for this except observation >>> of my own family) that many more people use the group chat feature than
use individual chat, and many people never use it for voice or video
calls. It depends on the iPhone/Android mix and people's ages.
So setting up a WhatsApp group to tell people how you're doing, and ask
questions on routes, would work fine, but an old-fashioned phone call or >>> text will be more reliable in other situations.
Many people never use groups on WhatsApp. To us, WA is just a glorified
SMS Messaging app, you can use it just the same :-)
I don't think of WA Chat as being equivalent to an SMS, though obviously
they are both messaging systems. Sent me an SMS and I'll probably read it right away, if I have the phone with me. Send me a WA chat and I might
notice it the same day: I don't have alerts turned on for WA because I
don't think of WA messages as potentially important.
But every sender and message recipient will have their own modus operandi.
I do make WA voice calls if I have a good wifi signal, in a shop for instance.
Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, >> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading >> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional organisations do not use it.
And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?
On 6 Aug 2023 23:34:08 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... Some
is spam - invitations to review something you've just bought for example - but not much. If I send an SMS "arriving 5 minutes" people usually get it. (And because I have an iPhone I turn iMessage off to ensure it /is/ sent
as an SMS, but that's OT.)
And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?
On 2023-08-07 09:06, Dave Royal wrote:
On 6 Aug 2023 23:34:08 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Here (Spain) it is usually the reverse. Only commercial entities use
SMS, so they are mostly spam, while an WA will be private, from family
or friends, thus important and sometimes even urgent.
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, >> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading >> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... Some
is spam - invitations to review something you've just bought for example - >> but not much. If I send an SMS "arriving 5 minutes" people usually get it. >> (And because I have an iPhone I turn iMessage off to ensure it /is/ sent
as an SMS, but that's OT.)
And yes, a WhatsApp Chat message will be personal. But not important: the
word 'chat' in English implies unimportance: it's why I've never thought
of it as a 'message'. What word is used in Spain for that feature of
WhatsApp? Maybe there /are/ national differences?
We say "uasap" which is what "whatsapp" sounds like in Spanish when
speaking fast. Written "wasap".
On 07/08/2023 09:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, >>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on >>> Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading >>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
organisations do not use it.
Which makes the current UK government 'unprofessional'! Unfortunately,
that seems a fair and accurate description :-(
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, >> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading >> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional organisations do not use it.
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, >>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on >>> Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading >>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
organisations do not use it.
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp.
Do we start again that silliness?
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, >>>> evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use
iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on >>>> Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading >>>> immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and >>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional
organisations do not use it.
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp.
Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use >>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on >>>>> Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and >>>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional >>>> organisations do not use it.
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp.
Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
The reality says otherwise.
Am 08.08.23 um 08:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and >>>>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional >>>>> organisations do not use it.
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use >>>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... >>>>>
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp. >>>> Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
The reality says otherwise.
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions. And never ever communicated an enterprise over this channel or tried it.
In developing countries this might be still different.
Like the entire EU. Yeah, sure.
KLM, from the Netherlands. You just classified Netherlands as a
developing country.
<https://www.klm.nl/en/contact/booking/help-online-booking>
Dutch government:
<https://www.netherlandsworldwide.nl/contact>
On 2023-08-08 09:40, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions. And never ever communicated an
enterprise over this channel or tried it.
In developing countries this might be still different.
Like the entire EU. Yeah, sure.
Am 08.08.23 um 08:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and >>>>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional >>>>> organisations do not use it.
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use >>>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... >>>>>
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp. >>>> Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
The reality says otherwise.
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions.
And never ever communicated an
enterprise over this channel or tried it.
In developing countries this might be still different.
Am 08.08.23 um 12:10 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-08 09:40, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions. And never ever communicated an
enterprise over this channel or tried it.
In developing countries this might be still different.
Like the entire EU. Yeah, sure.
Nonsense. In the EU even most commercial enterprises forbid the use of
WA on their company devices because this crap exposes their clients in
an unwanted and uncontrolled way. The use of WA does not comply with the GDPR.
Nowhere in the EU. And you know that very well.
If I ever miss a KLM flight because I do not use WA, KLM is liable for
the damage. EU rules apply also for the Netherlands and Air France/KLM.
And you know it very well.
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit, evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments...
I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional organisations do not use it.
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 15:45:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."[...]
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
We say "uasap" which is what "whatsapp" sounds like in Spanish when >speaking fast. Written "wasap".
Wasup, Doc?
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 08.08.23 um 08:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and >>>>>> at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional >>>>>> organisations do not use it.
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use >>>>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... >>>>>>
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp. >>>>> Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
The reality says otherwise.
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions.
That may true. Plenty other professionals use WhatsApp. You'd be shocked to find out how many governments use whatsapp as their primary comms.
Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾, mutual >messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your SMS app >supports it. Experiment before you travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services >https://jibe.google.com
(1) There is a more or less subtle colour difference that tells you if
your intended correspondent has RCS. For instance, you start to type a >message, and see a little label saying "SMS", you don't have RCS for
this conversation. Or you may see a label saying "RCS".
I just tried in my phone, and inside the text box, prior to typing, I
read "text message" (faint grey box) or "RCS message" (bluish box). This
is much better than a year ago, when the difference was subtle.
On 24 Jul 2023 22:21:22 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾, mutual
messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your SMS app
supports it. Experiment before you travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services
https://jibe.google.com
(1) There is a more or less subtle colour difference that tells you if
your intended correspondent has RCS. For instance, you start to type a
message, and see a little label saying "SMS", you don't have RCS for
this conversation. Or you may see a label saying "RCS".
I just tried in my phone, and inside the text box, prior to typing, I
read "text message" (faint grey box) or "RCS message" (bluish box). This
is much better than a year ago, when the difference was subtle.
From a couple of days ago:
[quote]Speaking of SMSes, Google announced today it's making its Messages
by Google app more secure with improvements to RCS, or Rich Communication Services -- a protocol aimed at replacing SMS and is more on par with the advanced features found in Apple's iMessage.[end quote]
From https://m.slashdot.org/story/417644
This has little to do with making messages more secure, though it will,
and everything to do with Google trying to compete with Apple who have
rolled SMSes into iMessage.
Everybody I know (in the UK) who has any sort of contract with a mobile operator gets unlimited (or a huge number) of texts free. But fewer and
fewer of the 'texts' people send are actually SMSes.
Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾, mutual messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your SMS app supports it. Experiment before you travel.
Am 08.08.23 um 22:34 schrieb Chris:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 08.08.23 um 08:48 schrieb Chris:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jrg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use >>>>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... >>>>>>
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional >>>>>> organisations do not use it.
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp. >>>>> Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
The reality says otherwise.
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions.
That may true. Plenty other professionals use WhatsApp. You'd be shocked to find out how many governments use whatsapp as their primary comms.
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
The reason is that SMS has a cost, approximately 10..20 cents, except
for those that have a plan that covers it (typically a thousand SMS
free). But not everybody has free sms here, I personally know people
which have to pay each SMS they send. Meanwhile, WhatsApp is free as
long as you have internet, be it via phone data or WiFi. The telcos did
not react in time and they lost the text market.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 08.08.23 um 22:34 schrieb Chris:
That may true. Plenty other professionals use WhatsApp. You'd be shocked to >>> find out how many governments use whatsapp as their primary comms.
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
This doesn't say what you imply.
On 24 Jul 2023 22:21:22 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Don't forget RCS. This can be considered as an enhancement on SMS
working over internet, so that if both correspondents have it⁽¹⁾, mutual
messaging is gratis. iphones don't have it. So make sure your SMS app
supports it. Experiment before you travel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services
https://jibe.google.com
(1) There is a more or less subtle colour difference that tells you if
your intended correspondent has RCS. For instance, you start to type a
message, and see a little label saying "SMS", you don't have RCS for
this conversation. Or you may see a label saying "RCS".
I just tried in my phone, and inside the text box, prior to typing, I
read "text message" (faint grey box) or "RCS message" (bluish box). This
is much better than a year ago, when the difference was subtle.
From a couple of days ago:
[quote]Speaking of SMSes, Google announced today it's making its Messages
by Google app more secure with improvements to RCS, or Rich Communication Services -- a protocol aimed at replacing SMS and is more on par with the advanced features found in Apple's iMessage.[end quote]
From https://m.slashdot.org/story/417644
This has little to do with making messages more secure, though it will,
and everything to do with Google trying to compete with Apple who have
rolled SMSes into iMessage.
Everybody I know (in the UK) who has any sort of contract with a mobile operator gets unlimited (or a huge number) of texts free. But fewer and
fewer of the 'texts' people send are actually SMSes.
Am 10.08.23 um 16:30 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 08.08.23 um 22:34 schrieb Chris:
That may true. Plenty other professionals use WhatsApp. You'd be shocked to
find out how many governments use whatsapp as their primary comms.
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
This doesn't say what you imply.
Didn't you read the thread?
Professional organisations do not use WA.
WA in a professional context is an enormous risk for the companies involved.
And what I have found recently is that RCS works in countries like Switzerland that removed MMS, so no worries (ignore Jörg Lorenz protestations 😛 )
Am 10.08.23 um 23:44 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
And what I have found recently is that RCS works in countries like
Switzerland that removed MMS, so no worries (ignore Jörg Lorenz
protestations 😛 )
It certainly works here but it is by no means a competition to the
instant messengers. Google missed the train more than ten years ago. I
use a Pixel 7 alongside my iPhone 14. RCS has never played a role in the consideration what to use for communication.
Several telephone companies are disabling MMS, which was the SMS texts >messages improved to bigger size and photos, which on some companies was >quite expensive to use (like one euro per message). I have seen it used
often by commercials, but not by people (because of the cost).
So, an Android user today can send an SMS, which upgrades automatically
to MMS if needed (and available), but uses instead RCS when both
destination and origin support it (and is gratis).
On 10 Aug 2023 23:44:13 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Several telephone companies are disabling MMS, which was the SMS texts
messages improved to bigger size and photos, which on some companies was
quite expensive to use (like one euro per message). I have seen it used
often by commercials, but not by people (because of the cost).
So, an Android user today can send an SMS, which upgrades automatically
to MMS if needed (and available), but uses instead RCS when both
destination and origin support it (and is gratis).
I've never (deliberately) sent an MMS, which have always been expensive. I always thought it was for just for pictures not, for example, rich text. I assume - but don't know for certain - that the 'unlimited text' in phone plans means SMSes. But it may now include RCS - I'll look at the 'small print' in future.
But I have an iPhone (my children give me their old ones, and they're
small - the phones not the children). And I turn iMessage off which forces
it to send SMSes.
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you turn off
iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS.
On 11 Aug 2023 08:52:51 +0200 Jörg Lorenz wrote:
I very often require the message to be sent _instantly_, including (as is usually the case at that moment) if I have no data connection. The usual recipient also has an iPhone (with iMessage turned on) but possibly no
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you turn off
iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS.
data connection. (Think railway tunnels with short gaps between them.)
I found that an iPhone will not do that unless I turn iMessage off. And
yes, I know that instant receipt of SMSes is not certain, but it's pretty reliable.
Am 10.08.23 um 16:30 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 08.08.23 um 22:34 schrieb Chris:
That may true. Plenty other professionals use WhatsApp. You'd be shocked to
find out how many governments use whatsapp as their primary comms.
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
This doesn't say what you imply.
Didn't you read the thread?
This is about *absent* *archiving* of communication and also iMessage
and Signal are affected.
So nice try, but no cigar.
Professional organisations do not use WA.
WA in a professional context is an enormous risk for the companies involved.
--
Manus manum lavat
On 10 Aug 2023 23:44:13 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Several telephone companies are disabling MMS, which was the SMS texts
messages improved to bigger size and photos, which on some companies was
quite expensive to use (like one euro per message). I have seen it used
often by commercials, but not by people (because of the cost).
So, an Android user today can send an SMS, which upgrades automatically
to MMS if needed (and available), but uses instead RCS when both
destination and origin support it (and is gratis).
I've never (deliberately) sent an MMS, which have always been expensive. I always thought it was for just for pictures not, for example, rich text. I assume - but don't know for certain - that the 'unlimited text' in phone plans means SMSes. But it may now include RCS - I'll look at the 'small print' in future.
But I have an iPhone (my children give me their old ones, and they're
small - the phones not the children). And I turn iMessage off which forces
it to send SMSes.
Am 11.08.23 um 14:28 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-11 08:41, Dave Royal wrote:
On 10 Aug 2023 23:44:13 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Several telephone companies are disabling MMS, which was the SMS texts >>>> messages improved to bigger size and photos, which on some companies was >>>> quite expensive to use (like one euro per message). I have seen it used >>>> often by commercials, but not by people (because of the cost).
So, an Android user today can send an SMS, which upgrades automatically >>>> to MMS if needed (and available), but uses instead RCS when both
destination and origin support it (and is gratis).
I've never (deliberately) sent an MMS, which have always been expensive. I >>> always thought it was for just for pictures not, for example, rich text. I >>> assume - but don't know for certain - that the 'unlimited text' in phone >>> plans means SMSes. But it may now include RCS - I'll look at the 'small
print' in future.
RCS goes over Internet, so it is unlimited and free, as long as you have
Internet.
But I have an iPhone (my children give me their old ones, and they're
small - the phones not the children). And I turn iMessage off which forces >>> it to send SMSes.
Then, no RCS for you.
nospam: Nobody needs RCS.
On 2023-08-11 08:41, Dave Royal wrote:
On 10 Aug 2023 23:44:13 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Several telephone companies are disabling MMS, which was the SMS texts
messages improved to bigger size and photos, which on some companies was >>> quite expensive to use (like one euro per message). I have seen it used
often by commercials, but not by people (because of the cost).
So, an Android user today can send an SMS, which upgrades automatically
to MMS if needed (and available), but uses instead RCS when both
destination and origin support it (and is gratis).
I've never (deliberately) sent an MMS, which have always been expensive. I >> always thought it was for just for pictures not, for example, rich text. I >> assume - but don't know for certain - that the 'unlimited text' in phone
plans means SMSes. But it may now include RCS - I'll look at the 'small
print' in future.
RCS goes over Internet, so it is unlimited and free, as long as you have Internet.
But I have an iPhone (my children give me their old ones, and they're
small - the phones not the children). And I turn iMessage off which forces >> it to send SMSes.
Then, no RCS for you.
On 2023-08-11 14:37, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 14:28 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-11 08:41, Dave Royal wrote:
On 10 Aug 2023 23:44:13 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
Several telephone companies are disabling MMS, which was the SMS texts >>>>> messages improved to bigger size and photos, which on some companies was >>>>> quite expensive to use (like one euro per message). I have seen it used >>>>> often by commercials, but not by people (because of the cost).
So, an Android user today can send an SMS, which upgrades automatically >>>>> to MMS if needed (and available), but uses instead RCS when both
destination and origin support it (and is gratis).
I've never (deliberately) sent an MMS, which have always been expensive. I >>>> always thought it was for just for pictures not, for example, rich text. I >>>> assume - but don't know for certain - that the 'unlimited text' in phone >>>> plans means SMSes. But it may now include RCS - I'll look at the 'small >>>> print' in future.
RCS goes over Internet, so it is unlimited and free, as long as you have >>> Internet.
But I have an iPhone (my children give me their old ones, and they're
small - the phones not the children). And I turn iMessage off which forces >>>> it to send SMSes.
Then, no RCS for you.
nospam: Nobody needs RCS.
False. I do.
And I know other people that do.
Am 11.08.23 um 09:27 schrieb Dave Royal:
On 11 Aug 2023 08:52:51 +0200 Jörg Lorenz wrote:
I very often require the message to be sent _instantly_, including (as is >> usually the case at that moment) if I have no data connection. The usual
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you turn off
iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS.
recipient also has an iPhone (with iMessage turned on) but possibly no
data connection. (Think railway tunnels with short gaps between them.)
Not very probable nowadays. In such a case SMS won't work as well.
I found that an iPhone will not do that unless I turn iMessage off. And
yes, I know that instant receipt of SMSes is not certain, but it's pretty >> reliable.
Messengers are at least as reliable.
On 8/11/23 1:12 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 09:27 schrieb Dave Royal:
On 11 Aug 2023 08:52:51 +0200 Jörg Lorenz wrote:
I very often require the message to be sent _instantly_, including
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you turn off >>>> iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS.
(as is usually the case at that moment) if I have no data connection.
The usual recipient also has an iPhone (with iMessage turned on) but
possibly no data connection. (Think railway tunnels with short gaps
between them.)
Not very probable nowadays. In such a case SMS won't work as well.
I found that an iPhone will not do that unless I turn iMessage off.
And yes, I know that instant receipt of SMSes is not certain, but
it's pretty reliable.
Messengers are at least as reliable.
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is this controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using the same system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what I'm using?
The article didn't answer those questions, obviously.
Am 08.08.23 um 22:34 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 08.08.23 um 08:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 22:45 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-08-07 10:13, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 07.08.23 um 09:06 schrieb Dave Royal:
I doubt if it's a national characteristic. I think it's more likely habit,I totally agree. WA is Zuckerberg proprietary crap. Not standardised and
evolved within a family or a circle of friends. Most of my family use >>>>>>>> iPhones, including me because they give me old ones, whereas I started on
Android.
Yes, SMS is used by commercial entities, but some of that is worth reading
immediately - impending deliveries, imminent medical appointments... >>>>>>>
at best in private circles accepted that agree to use it. Professional >>>>>>> organisations do not use it.
LOL.
We proved to you that many professional organizations DO use WhatsApp. >>>>>> Do we start again that silliness?
Porfessionals do not use undocumented and proprietary ways of
communication.
The reality says otherwise.
No. In my country authorities forbid the use of WA for Police, Armed
Forces and Educational institutions.
That may true. Plenty other professionals use WhatsApp. You'd be shocked to >> find out how many governments use whatsapp as their primary comms.
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
On 2023-08-11 19:29, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/11/23 1:12 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 09:27 schrieb Dave Royal:
On 11 Aug 2023 08:52:51 +0200 Jörg Lorenz wrote:
I very often require the message to be sent _instantly_, including
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you turn off >>>>> iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS.
(as is usually the case at that moment) if I have no data connection. >>>> The usual recipient also has an iPhone (with iMessage turned on) but
possibly no data connection. (Think railway tunnels with short gaps
between them.)
Not very probable nowadays. In such a case SMS won't work as well.
I found that an iPhone will not do that unless I turn iMessage off.
And yes, I know that instant receipt of SMSes is not certain, but
it's pretty reliable.
Messengers are at least as reliable.
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is this
controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using the same
system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what I'm using?
If the phone only has SMS/MMS (or RCS is disabled), the messaging
application automatically switches to MMS depending on the content. I
have in the past used some option to choose SMS or MMS, but you may have
or not that choice in your program.
If RCS is available, the program will switch to RCS automatically IF the other party can receive RCS. Depending on which app or phone, you may
see a faint "RCS message" or "SMS message" (or "text message") in the
text box.
You do not have direct control, except by enabling/disabling it generally.
As far as the protocol goes, it doesn't matter what system each
participant is using, with the exception of iPhone users, because Apple refuses to implement the protocol in order to keep his walled garden
walled :-P
Anyone having a relatively recent or updated android phone, the default messages application from Google does RCS.
The advantage over SMS/MMS is that messages (and messages with photos)
are gratis even across national borders, and that everybody has the capability by default (except iPhones). Instead of wondering what app
will the other side have (whatsapp, signal, telegram, threema), you
simply know they will have "messages" installed by default and you can
just text away.
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is this >controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using the same >system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what I'm using?
The article didn't answer those questions, obviously.
The Pixel2 has 'Messages', so I guess I assume RCS, which is free. My prepaid phone plan (T-Mobile) charges a dime each (I think) for sending/receiving text messages. Does it NOT then charge for MMC messages? What if they contain ONLY text?
On 8/7/2023 6:45 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The reason is that SMS has a cost, approximately 10..20 cents, except
for those that have a plan that covers it (typically a thousand SMS
free). But not everybody has free sms here, I personally know people
which have to pay each SMS they send. Meanwhile, WhatsApp is free as
long as you have internet, be it via phone data or WiFi. The telcos did
not react in time and they lost the text market.
Much of Europe also has the bizarre "Caller Pays" system for voice
calls, so WhatsApp is widely used for voice calls as well.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of whatsapp and iMessage.
(I remember trying out the new SMS feature when I got a GSM phone in the
mid '90s, and thinking it would be very useful. I had to look for it,
deep in the phone's menu system - it wasn't aimed at ordinary users. By coincidence the first ever SMS was sent by a guy working for the same
company in the UK as I was.)
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:45 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The reason is that SMS has a cost, approximately 10..20 cents, except
for those that have a plan that covers it (typically a thousand SMS
free). But not everybody has free sms here, I personally know people
which have to pay each SMS they send. Meanwhile, WhatsApp is free as
long as you have internet, be it via phone data or WiFi. The telcos did
not react in time and they lost the text market.
Much of Europe also has the bizarre "Caller Pays" system for voice
calls, so WhatsApp is widely used for voice calls as well.
As per usual this is US exceptionalism. The caller pays model is the
standard all over the world. Only the US, Canada, Hong Kong and Singapore
use the receiver pays model.
It's moot these days, however, in Europe as most phone contracts have unlimited calls included
On 8/11/23 11:26 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-08-11 19:29, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/11/23 1:12 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 09:27 schrieb Dave Royal:
On 11 Aug 2023 08:52:51 +0200 Jörg Lorenz wrote:
I very often require the message to be sent _instantly_, including
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you
turn off
iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS. >>>>>>
(as is usually the case at that moment) if I have no data
connection. The usual recipient also has an iPhone (with iMessage
turned on) but possibly no data connection. (Think railway tunnels
with short gaps between them.)
Not very probable nowadays. In such a case SMS won't work as well.
I found that an iPhone will not do that unless I turn iMessage off.
And yes, I know that instant receipt of SMSes is not certain, but
it's pretty reliable.
Messengers are at least as reliable.
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is
this controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using
the same system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what
I'm using?
If the phone only has SMS/MMS (or RCS is disabled), the messaging
application automatically switches to MMS depending on the content. I
have in the past used some option to choose SMS or MMS, but you may have
or not that choice in your program.
If RCS is available, the program will switch to RCS automatically IF the
other party can receive RCS. Depending on which app or phone, you may
see a faint "RCS message" or "SMS message" (or "text message") in the
text box.
You do not have direct control, except by enabling/disabling it
generally.
As far as the protocol goes, it doesn't matter what system each
participant is using, with the exception of iPhone users, because Apple
refuses to implement the protocol in order to keep his walled garden
walled :-P
Anyone having a relatively recent or updated android phone, the default
messages application from Google does RCS.
The advantage over SMS/MMS is that messages (and messages with photos)
are gratis even across national borders, and that everybody has the
capability by default (except iPhones). Instead of wondering what app
will the other side have (whatsapp, signal, telegram, threema), you
simply know they will have "messages" installed by default and you can
just text away.
The Pixel2 has 'Messages', so I guess I assume RCS, which is free.
On 2023-08-11 21:26, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/11/23 11:26 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-08-11 19:29, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/11/23 1:12 AM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 09:27 schrieb Dave Royal:
On 11 Aug 2023 08:52:51 +0200 Jörg Lorenz wrote:
I very often require the message to be sent _instantly_, including >>>>>> (as is usually the case at that moment) if I have no data
Apple does not support RCS for obvious reasons. Why should you
turn off
iMsg? It has much much more functions and features than SMS or MMS. >>>>>>>
connection. The usual recipient also has an iPhone (with iMessage
turned on) but possibly no data connection. (Think railway tunnels >>>>>> with short gaps between them.)
Not very probable nowadays. In such a case SMS won't work as well.
I found that an iPhone will not do that unless I turn iMessage off. >>>>>> And yes, I know that instant receipt of SMSes is not certain, but
it's pretty reliable.
Messengers are at least as reliable.
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is
this controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using
the same system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what
I'm using?
If the phone only has SMS/MMS (or RCS is disabled), the messaging
application automatically switches to MMS depending on the content. I
have in the past used some option to choose SMS or MMS, but you may have >>> or not that choice in your program.
If RCS is available, the program will switch to RCS automatically IF the >>> other party can receive RCS. Depending on which app or phone, you may
see a faint "RCS message" or "SMS message" (or "text message") in the
text box.
You do not have direct control, except by enabling/disabling it
generally.
As far as the protocol goes, it doesn't matter what system each
participant is using, with the exception of iPhone users, because Apple
refuses to implement the protocol in order to keep his walled garden
walled :-P
Anyone having a relatively recent or updated android phone, the default
messages application from Google does RCS.
The advantage over SMS/MMS is that messages (and messages with photos)
are gratis even across national borders, and that everybody has the
capability by default (except iPhones). Instead of wondering what app
will the other side have (whatsapp, signal, telegram, threema), you
simply know they will have "messages" installed by default and you can
just text away.
The Pixel2 has 'Messages', so I guess I assume RCS, which is free.
Tap to open a thread, messages that you received from someone. If it
says "you can not answer to this number" or similar, pick another
thread, another correspondent. When you see an empty box for typing
text, it will say "text message" or "RCS" in faint letters. And if you
send a message, it will have blue colour box.
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is this controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using the same system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what I'm using?
Am 11.08.23 um 19:29 schrieb The Real Bev:
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is this
controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using the same
system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what I'm using?
You can easily control it. Open your Messenger app. Tap on your picture
in the upper right corner to open the settings. Open Messages Settings.
At the top you will see RCS-Chats. Tap on it. Then you will see the
whole set of options.
Here checked on a Pixel 7 with the orginal stock Android 13.
The other characteristics were discussed by Carlos.
On 8/11/23 10:34 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 19:29 schrieb The Real Bev:
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is
this controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using
the same system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what
I'm using?
You can easily control it. Open your Messenger app. Tap on your picture
in the upper right corner to open the settings. Open Messages Settings.
At the top you will see RCS-Chats. Tap on it. Then you will see the
whole set of options.
Here checked on a Pixel 7 with the orginal stock Android 13.
Yup. Various RCS things checked. If those are the defaults they seem reasonable.
The other characteristics were discussed by Carlos.
The text fill-in box says Text, but there are options for sending a
video and something else. Not likely to do that until I get to a free
wifi site :-)
Thank you, gentlemen.
On 2023-08-12 22:04, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/11/23 10:34 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 19:29 schrieb The Real Bev:
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is
this controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using
the same system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what
I'm using?
You can easily control it. Open your Messenger app. Tap on your picture
in the upper right corner to open the settings. Open Messages Settings.
At the top you will see RCS-Chats. Tap on it. Then you will see the
whole set of options.
Here checked on a Pixel 7 with the orginal stock Android 13.
Yup. Various RCS things checked. If those are the defaults they seem
reasonable.
The other characteristics were discussed by Carlos.
The text fill-in box says Text, but there are options for sending a
video and something else. Not likely to do that until I get to a free
wifi site :-)
If it says "Text", that is not RCS. Video will then be sent as MMS.
Turn RCS chats on or off
On your device, open Messages .
At the top right, tap your profile picture or icon. Messages settings.
Tap RCS chats.
Turn RCS chats on or off.
<https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7189714?hl=en>
Thank you, gentlemen.
Welcome :-)
On 8/11/23 10:34 PM, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 19:29 schrieb The Real Bev:
OK, I had to look up the difference between SMS, MMS and RCS. Is this
controllable by the user? Must the two participants be using the same
system? Are they all different apps? How do I know what I'm using?
You can easily control it. Open your Messenger app. Tap on your picture
in the upper right corner to open the settings. Open Messages Settings.
At the top you will see RCS-Chats. Tap on it. Then you will see the
whole set of options.
Here checked on a Pixel 7 with the orginal stock Android 13.
Yup. Various RCS things checked. If those are the defaults they seem reasonable.
The other characteristics were discussed by Carlos.
The text fill-in box says Text, but there are options for sending a
video and something else. Not likely to do that until I get to a free
wifi site :-)
Thank you, gentlemen.
<https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7189714?hl=en>
On 13 Aug 2023 00:44:53 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
I hadn't realised until reading that link that RCS provides a 'group chat' facility, like WhatsApp. But only if _everybody_ in the group has an RCS-capable phone (i.e. a recent Android) AND has RCS turned on. I can understand why Google are so keen to get Apple to implement it! If you
<https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7189714?hl=en>
start a group chat, and somebody buys an iPhone, the whole group loses features - or they have to leave the group.
WhatsApp OTOH can chat to both iOS and Android users.
And as I said much earlier, 'messaging' and 'chatting' are different
things to me.
I can
understand why Google are so keen to get Apple to implement it!
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
On 13 Aug 2023 00:44:53 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
I hadn't realised until reading that link that RCS provides a 'group chat' facility, like WhatsApp. But only if _everybody_ in the group has an RCS-capable phone (i.e. a recent Android) AND has RCS turned on. I can understand why Google are so keen to get Apple to implement it! If you
<https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7189714?hl=en>
start a group chat, and somebody buys an iPhone, the whole group loses features - or they have to leave the group.
WhatsApp OTOH can chat to both iOS and Android users.
And as I said much earlier, 'messaging' and 'chatting' are different
things to me.
So do I. And for 1:1 messaging between Android users RCS will soon become normal. And most ordinary adults still won't know or care what sort of
phone their friends have or what message transport method it uses.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of
whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
*Still* lying, I see! As to the *real* (clue-by-four:) violation, see
my earlier responses to your fairy tale.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of
whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
*Still* lying, I see! As to the *real* (clue-by-four:) violation, see
my earlier responses to your fairy tale.
On 2023-08-13 09:43, Dave Royal wrote:
On 13 Aug 2023 00:44:53 +0200 Carlos E.R. wrote:
I hadn't realised until reading that link that RCS provides a 'group chat' >> facility, like WhatsApp. But only if _everybody_ in the group has an
<https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7189714?hl=en>
RCS-capable phone (i.e. a recent Android) AND has RCS turned on. I can
understand why Google are so keen to get Apple to implement it! If you
start a group chat, and somebody buys an iPhone, the whole group loses
features - or they have to leave the group.
Notice that Google is releasing about now updates that make "RCS ON" the >default setting. Till now it was optional.
WhatsApp OTOH can chat to both iOS and Android users.
True, but every Android phone sold has RCS since day zero, without
installing or configuring anything. Whatsap has to be installed and >configured (and yes, I know people that are unable to do that).
Am 13.08.23 um 11:59 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of
whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
*Still* lying, I see! As to the *real* (clue-by-four:) violation, see
my earlier responses to your fairy tale.
In den USA mssen weitere Banken und Finanzfirmen zusammen 555 Millionen US-Dollar Strafe bezahlen, weil Angestellte fr geschftliche
Kommunikation Messenger wie iMessage, WhatsApp und Signal benutzt haben.
Das teilten die US-Kapitalmarktbehrden SEC (Securities Exchange
Commission) und CFTC (Commodity Futures Trading Commission) mit. Die
grte Strafe zahlt dabei diesmal die US-Bank Wells Fargo mit 200
Millionen US-Dollar. Jeweils 110 Millionen US-Dollar entfallen auf die franzsischen Grobanken BNP Paribas und Socit Gnrale. Insgesamt
wurde die Finanzindustrie damit zu Strafzahlungen in Hhe von mehr als
2,5 Milliarden US-Dollar verdonnert, weil die Praktiken gegen Vorgaben
zur Aufbewahrung von geschftlicher Kommunikation verstoen haben.
weil die Praktiken gegen Vorgaben
zur AUFBEWAHRUNG von geschftlicher Kommunikation VERSTOEN haben.
for practices that VIOLATED
RETENTION requirements for business communications.
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA
to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of
whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of
whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
The point being that businesses do use messaging apps. In industries or countries which don't have legal compliance requirements it'll be rife.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.08.23 um 11:59 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of >>>>> whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
*Still* lying, I see! As to the *real* (clue-by-four:) violation, see >>> my earlier responses to your fairy tale.
In den USA müssen weitere Banken und Finanzfirmen zusammen 555 Millionen
US-Dollar Strafe bezahlen, weil Angestellte für geschäftliche
Kommunikation Messenger wie iMessage, WhatsApp und Signal benutzt haben.
Das teilten die US-Kapitalmarktbehörden SEC (Securities Exchange
Commission) und CFTC (Commodity Futures Trading Commission) mit. Die
größte Strafe zahlt dabei diesmal die US-Bank Wells Fargo mit 200
Millionen US-Dollar. Jeweils 110 Millionen US-Dollar entfallen auf die
französischen Großbanken BNP Paribas und Société Générale. Insgesamt >> wurde die Finanzindustrie damit zu Strafzahlungen in Höhe von mehr als
2,5 Milliarden US-Dollar verdonnert, weil die Praktiken gegen Vorgaben
zur Aufbewahrung von geschäftlicher Kommunikation verstoßen haben.
QED.
Exactly *which* part of the last part of the last sentence didn't you understand!?
I'll repeat it for you and will highlight (uppercase) the relevant
parts:
weil die Praktiken gegen Vorgaben
zur AUFBEWAHRUNG von geschäftlicher Kommunikation VERSTOßEN haben.
In English, courtesy Google Translate:
for practices that VIOLATED
RETENTION requirements for business communications.
(the next section talks in more detail about the Aufbewahrung/retention violations).
So the fines are *not* about the *use* of WhatsApp/iMessage/Signal/
etc., but about not *archiving* the communication in a compliant manner.
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
nospam: Nobody needs RCS.
False. I do.
Am 14.08.23 um 08:30 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of
whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
The point being that businesses do use messaging apps. In industries or
countries which don't have legal compliance requirements it'll be rife.
Sounds like developing countries: GDPR is valid for all businesses and
public authorities within Europe. Unauthorized exposure is forbidden and
that is exactly what WA and most other messengers do.
SMS (and MMS) does not need an internet connection - that's the most important difference. RCS (iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc) all
need an internet connection.
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.08.23 um 08:30 schrieb Chris:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 11.08.23 um 21:48 schrieb Chris:
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
American Banks pay 550 million Dollars because their employees used WA >>>>> to communicate with their clients (in German):
https://www.heise.de/news/USA-Banken-zahlen-550-Millionen-US-Dollar-Strafe-fuer-Nutzung-von-WhatsApp-Co-9238711.html?wt_mc=rss.red.ho.ho.rdf.beitrag.beitrag
So you agree that professional organisations *are* using the likes of >>>> whatsapp and iMessage.
No. Only some of their employees illegaly and against internal
guidelines. That is by far not the same.
The point being that businesses do use messaging apps. In industries or
countries which don't have legal compliance requirements it'll be rife.
Sounds like developing countries: GDPR is valid for all businesses and public authorities within Europe. Unauthorized exposure is forbidden and that is exactly what WA and most other messengers do.
The use of, say WA, is not in and of itself contrary to GDPR. What you
choose to share via WA /may/ be. Here's a clear example: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66364283
The use of whatsapp isn't the problem, but the fact it was used to share patient information plus the fact that a non-clinical person was added to
the group.
Jörg is again spreading FUD, because for some strange reason he feels
the need to bash WhatsApp with all kinds of invalid arguments. (That in
this case iMessage, Signal, etc. are collateral damage is kind of
amusing.)
Typically the best thing is to have a phone with dual SIMs, and buy a
prepaid SIM on Europe for the duration.
Am 14.08.23 um 18:00 schrieb Chris:
The use of, say WA, is not in and of itself contrary to GDPR.
De facto it is.
Unusable if contacts/adresses are not uploaded to Facebook.
The use of, say WA, is not in and of itself contrary to GDPR.
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.08.23 um 18:00 schrieb Chris:
The use of, say WA, is not in and of itself contrary to GDPR.
De facto it is.
Nope. Not even in latin.
Unusable if contacts/adresses are not uploaded to Facebook.
Nothing to do with GDPR.
I hadn't realised until reading that link that RCS provides a 'group
chat' facility, like WhatsApp. But only if everybody in the group has an RCS-capable phone (i.e. a recent Android) AND has RCS turned on.
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.Or everyone adopts MLS ...
Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.
Or everyone adopts MLS ...
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) is a security layer for end-to-end
encrypting messages in arbitrarily sized groups. It is maintained by the
MLS working group of the Internet Engineering Task Force to provide an efficient and practical security mechanism.
Has AFAIK nothing to do with the decision which messenger or protocol is used.
Dave Royal wrote:
I hadn't realised until reading that link that RCS provides a 'group
chat' facility, like WhatsApp. But only if everybody in the group has an
RCS-capable phone (i.e. a recent Android) AND has RCS turned on.
Google say they have now turned RCS on for all phones except those where
the user has previously turned it off
<https://www.androidpolice.com/google-messages-rcs-enabled-by-default-b/>
I did resist a few time when they began "suggesting" turning it on.
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.
Or everyone adopts MLS ...
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) is a security layer for end-to-end
encrypting messages in arbitrarily sized groups. It is maintained by the
MLS working group of the Internet Engineering Task Force to provide an
efficient and practical security mechanism.
Has AFAIK nothing to do with the decision which messenger or protocol is
used.
MLS will allow all the closed messengers to interoperate, and the EU is
going to put pressure on them ...
Imagine if people on Deutsche Telekom couldn't call people on SwissCom, that's how stupid the current bunch of messengers are.
schrieb Andy Burns:
MLS will allow all the closed messengers to interoperate, and the
EU is going to put pressure on them ...
Sorry but this is wrong. And that is the point where the EU will not intervene with a very high degree of probability.
There are so many channels for mobile communication.How many is too many? Should everyone install them all on their phone?
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.Or everyone adopts MLS ...
I've never (deliberately) sent an MMS, which have always been expensive.
Jrg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.08.23 um 18:00 schrieb Chris:
The use of, say WA, is not in and of itself contrary to GDPR.
De facto it is.
Nope. Not even in latin.
Unusable if contacts/adresses are not uploaded to Facebook.
Nothing to do with GDPR.
Jrg Lorenz wrote:
schrieb Andy Burns:
MLS will allow all the closed messengers to interoperate, and the
EU is going to put pressure on them ...
Sorry but this is wrong. And that is the point where the EU will not intervene with a very high degree of probability.
Digital Services Act and Digital Markets Act?
That is unless they frighten away the providers with their
anti-encryption "think of the children" stance ...
There are so many channels for mobile communication.How many is too many? Should everyone install them all on their phone?
On an iPhone you can specify that you want a message sent by SMS rather
than the default iMessage - Apple's proprietary equivalent of RCS
Am 15.08.23 um 08:48 schrieb Chris:
Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.08.23 um 18:00 schrieb Chris:
The use of, say WA, is not in and of itself contrary to GDPR.
De facto it is.
Nope. Not even in latin.
Unusable if contacts/adresses are not uploaded to Facebook.
Nothing to do with GDPR.
You really do not understand
the dimension of the issue: *That is the
biggest single issue*. And the reason why companies and autorities
forbid the use of WA.
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.
Or everyone adopts MLS ...
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) is a security layer for end-to-end
encrypting messages in arbitrarily sized groups. It is maintained by the
MLS working group of the Internet Engineering Task Force to provide an
efficient and practical security mechanism.
Has AFAIK nothing to do with the decision which messenger or protocol is
used.
MLS will allow all the closed messengers to interoperate, and the EU is
going to put pressure on them ...
Imagine if people on Deutsche Telekom couldn't call people on SwissCom, that's how stupid the current bunch of messengers are.
On 8/11/2023 12:57 PM, Dave Royal wrote:
<snip>
SMS (and MMS) does not need an internet connection - that's the most
important difference. RCS (iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc) all
need an internet connection.
MMS requires a data connection, either mobile data or Wi-Fi.
Carlos E.R. wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
nospam: Nobody needs RCS.
False. I do.
I wouldn't say I need RCS, but I do use it in preference to SMS.
On 2023-08-15 13:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.
Or everyone adopts MLS ...
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) is a security layer for end-to-end
encrypting messages in arbitrarily sized groups. It is maintained by the >>> MLS working group of the Internet Engineering Task Force to provide an
efficient and practical security mechanism.
Has AFAIK nothing to do with the decision which messenger or protocol is >>> used.
MLS will allow all the closed messengers to interoperate, and the EU is
going to put pressure on them ...
I heard of that.
Imagine if people on Deutsche Telekom couldn't call people on SwissCom,
that's how stupid the current bunch of messengers are.
Which indeed happens some times.
Am 16.08.23 um 11:01 schrieb Carlos E. R.:Of course it doesn't happen with Swisscom, it is a dominant telco.
On 2023-08-15 13:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
Your scenario can at best become reality if Apple adopts RCS.
Or everyone adopts MLS ...
Messaging Layer Security (MLS) is a security layer for end-to-end
encrypting messages in arbitrarily sized groups. It is maintained by the >>>> MLS working group of the Internet Engineering Task Force to provide an >>>> efficient and practical security mechanism.
Has AFAIK nothing to do with the decision which messenger or protocol is >>>> used.
MLS will allow all the closed messengers to interoperate, and the EU is
going to put pressure on them ...
I heard of that.
Imagine if people on Deutsche Telekom couldn't call people on SwissCom,
that's how stupid the current bunch of messengers are.
Which indeed happens some times.
*LOL*
The regulator is very strict here in Switzerland. It does not happen for telephony. The example is far fetched and wrong.
BTW: The company is called Swisscom.
On 2023-08-14 18:56, sms wrote:
On 8/11/2023 12:57 PM, Dave Royal wrote:I think I sent MMS prior to my phone having data. Old phone.
<snip>
SMS (and MMS) does not need an internet connection - that's the most
important difference. RCS (iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram etc) all >>> need an internet connection.
MMS requires a data connection, either mobile data or Wi-Fi.
This has been debunked over and over again, with you ignoring or/and snipping the evidence each time. Foot stamping might be somewhat cute
for a three year old, for a presumed adult not so much.
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