On 2023-07-25 19:43, Alan wrote:
people appear to LIKE glass backs more than plastic.
Sure... so they protect the glass with a protective case :-P
due to the proliferation of devices that charge via usb, many
people prefer to use chargers with multiple ports, which is much better
(and more economical) than individual chargers for each device, each
taking up a mains outlet.
I wonder how the phones stuck in the back pockets of the young women I
see when out and about survive? Hey! I know what you're thinking but
rest assured I am looking only at the phones...
On 7/28/2023 9:02 AM, AJL wrote:
<snip>
Yep. Amazon is the place to go for cases. None of my local stores
carry cases (or holsters) for phones as old as mine...
A lot of eBay sellers also sell cases for older and more obscure
phones, as do some Aliexpress sellers.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/30/2023 1:36 PM, Chris wrote:
Wireless charging induces more heat in the battery which accelerates
ageing.
My wireless charger plate came with a standard 2A USB charger. I
replaced it with a 1/2A USB charger (from my extra chargers bag) on the
theory there will be less heat. It still is fully charged in the
morning. Dunno if it helped or not...
It's also less efficient and wastes energy.
It's now been a month of over 110F degree days here. Compared to my air
conditioning bill I doubt I'll notice much extra on the electric bill
from the waste that my wireless charger produces...
The reason you're experiencing those temperatures is because we've been >wasteful for decades..
I charge my iPhone 11 every 2 days at worst. I've had it near 4 years
and it's at 90% Max Cap.
I actually wish I could set it to charge to no more than 80% as that
would prolong the life of the battery while not affecting my daily power need.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
[...]
I charge my iPhone 11 every 2 days at worst. I've had it near 4 years
and it's at 90% Max Cap.
I actually wish I could set it to charge to no more than 80% as that
would prolong the life of the battery while not affecting my daily power
need.
Well, you could always buy a Samsung phone! :-)
Seriously, they can be set to stop charging at 85%. A very nice
feature, which I wish more devices - like my laptop :-( - had.
On 7/25/2023 1:55 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
<snip>
The modern equivalent is Thunderbolt4, plugging a single type-C cable
into the laptop supplies ~100W of power and connects dual monitors, multigig ethernet and a whole host of USB peripherals ...
Yeah, almost as good, but the docks were great and widely used in the business environment, almost everyone at work had a laptop with a dock.
You connected to wired Ethernet, a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and headset
in one fell swoop. It was one reason why Thinkpads and Dell Latitudes
became the defacto laptops for business and why the Macbooks were never
used much in the business, commercial, or government IT environments.
On 23/07/2023 10:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Finally! :-)
<https://wccftech.com/eu-new-regulations-apple-samsung-others-must-offer-easy-to-replace-batteries/>
EU Approves New Regulations That Require Apple, Samsung And Countless Others To Offer ?Easy to Replace? Batteries
Sadly a lot of devices are being supplied with batteries inside
welded-shut covers.
My last two Samsung phones have had no battery door, and my latest HP
laptop has no battery door (and no doors for removing HDD or RAM).
In all these cases, when (not if) the battery stops holding its charge,
it will be a major exercise finding someone who can unglue the back so a replacement battery can be fitted.
My record with laptops is not good: every laptop I've owned has needed a
new battery after about 3 years. I've got another two years or so before
my present laptop is likely to need a new battery...
Well, you could always buy a Samsung phone! :-)
Seriously, they can be set to stop charging at 85%. A very nice
feature, which I wish more devices - like my laptop :-( - had.
Well, you could always buy a Samsung phone! :-)
Seriously, they can be set to stop charging at 85%. A very nice
feature, which I wish more devices - like my laptop :-( - had.
I wonder what the reason is that the iPhone, or other Android phones,
have not copied this Samsung feature.
Perhaps there is little upside in a manufacturer prolonging the useful
life of the battery. It's also possible that Samsung patented this
feature and no one wants to risk getting sued for copying it.
On 8/4/2023 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Well, you could always buy a Samsung phone! :-) Seriously, they
can be set to stop charging at 85%. A very nice feature, which I
wish more devices - like my laptop :-( - had.
I wonder what the reason is that the iPhone, or other Android phones,
have not copied this Samsung feature. Perhaps there is little upside
in a manufacturer prolonging the useful life of the battery. It's
also possible that Samsung patented this feature and no one wants to
risk getting sued for copying it.
Perhaps the batteries in most phones last just fine until the phone's replacement without this extra "feature". Further they can last longer
in daily use without this extra "feature". My 4 year old phone (come September) has. But as always, you know...
On 8/4/2023 2:36 PM, AJL wrote:
Perhaps the batteries in most folks phones last just fine until
the phone's replacement
My iPhone 11 has lost 8% of its battery capacity in 10 months. My
iPhone 6s Plus has lost only 4% of its battery capacity in 56
months.
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts
the life of the battery?"
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts
the life of the battery?"
I'm not sure I understand your typo ridden sentence. But bottom line I
think most folks likely replace their phones for other reasons before
they have battery problems...
Perhaps the batteries in most phones last just fine until the phone's
replacement without this extra "feature". Further they can last longer
in daily use without this extra "feature". My 4 year old phone (come
September) has. But as always, you know...
My iPhone 11 has lost 8% of its battery capacity in 10 months.
My iPhone 6s Plus has lost only 4% of its battery capacity in 56 months.
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts the
life of the battery?"
On 2023-08-05, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I think most folks likely replace their phones for other reasons
before they have battery problems...
Name those reasons that you claim make people want to replace the
phone.
I think most folks likely replace their phones for other reasons
before they have battery problems...
Name those reasons that you claim make people want to replace the
phone.
Why do people always feel like purchasing a new phone, whilst the old
one is still very good? It's the same reason why people buy new clothes
or the latest fashion while the old rags are still very serviceable.
It's a fad. It's a fashion fad. It's keeping up with the Joneses, as the English idiom goes. It's the social dynamics of peer bonding and peer identification. In short, it's fashionable.
Another important reason:-
Planned obsolescence: the phone's operating system software cannot
update anymore.
It effectively becomes just a wireless phone with
outdated software for other functions - forcing you buy a new one.
It might be working but working at a snail's pace. Where you can see a
lot of different issues: Low storage, Slowing down, Screen freeze, Hang
I think investing not a big amount, but yes in a good phone is always a better option. Why? Let's elaborate on this point. It's a puzzling
question: we see people glued to their phones all day, yet they say they don't want to own one. But here's the surprise: there's more to this
puzzle than meets the eye! Paying bills by phone: With a simple tap
or swipe, phones have become our digital wallets, making bill payments
easy. Watching Instagram reels all day: From captivating visuals to
hilarious moments, our phones offer a window to endless inspiration and entertainment at our fingertips! Trying out food recipes: Whether it's tempting desserts or mouthwatering meals, our trusty phones have become
our culinary companions! Getting instant information: Need to uncover
the universe's secrets or find the best travel deals? A smartphone
becomes our knowledgeable guide, delivering answers within seconds.
Shopping for groceries, medicines, clothes, and more: In this digital
age, our handheld wonders whisk us away on virtual shopping sprees,
bringing life's necessities just a few taps away! However, some folks
choose not to spend on a phone. Why, you ask? Limited finances: They prioritize essential needs over wants, ensuring their limited resources
are used for what they truly need. Other investments come first: They
invest in education, ventures, or future security, valuing long-term
benefits over a shiny new phone. When you are spending the entire day on
a particular device, and that too for your personal and financial needs
and we are well aware that without phones, we cannot even pay the bills
or else we must carry cash. Sometimes we cannot expect the change as we
live in the digitalization era. So, let's unravel the mystery,
understand their motivations, and celebrate the unique perspectives that shape our world. Related
What is the psychological reason as to why people feel the need to get
the newest smartphone when a new one is released? It feels it gives them status. They will argue other motives to justify it.
For about 70% of
people, status is very important to them. It gives them a feeling of belonging and importance. It can not be changed as it is their
personality. For a percentage of them, status is the most important
thing. Why do people buy $550+ phones? Because there are idiots who fall
for any old advertising trick in the book i.e. "This new phone has
curved edges! WOW!" or "Three cameras! Three times as many pictures!"
These are the kind of people that don't have the patience to wait until
the prices come down or won't buy older ex-display/used models (which
are near enough brand new, except with maybe a little screen burn-in
because it's been sat inside a display case on the same screen every day
for a long time) Nothing wrong with this of course, but for a lot less
you are getting a quality phone which is (and I've compared the specifications) almost as good as the latest model, and still comes with
a warranty. For example, I picked up an ex-display Samsung Galaxy S7 (non-edge version) last month for $3000 with free delivery and a 2 year warranty. I can barely tell that it has any screen burn-in at all, but
if the screen does go kaput, I can easily send it off to have a
replacement screen fitted and STILL get that cheaper than the full price
of the latest $550+ model. It has all of the necessary features of a
modern phone (GPS, Camera, Fingerprint reader, speaker, audio jack, Gyroscope, SD card port, Some water proofing capabilities, etc.)
What I can't believe is that most people are happy to pay $50 per month
on a 2 year contract, spending more double the cost of buying the new
phone outright. These people will happily drop their $1000 purchase down
the toilet or on a concrete slab and go buy another one. Some, on the
other hand, will buy a cheap alternative and protect the investment with
a good sturdy phone case, because it think that 3 Million is still a lot
of money. On another note,he also can't believe people that will happily download/run a butt load of resource hogging apps in the background (facebook, instagram, twitter, youtube, snapchat, etc.) and call their
phone slow and complain about battery problems when it runs like crap.
In my honest opinion, all you need is a good browser and you can run everything you need from there. Less resources hogged, less battery
used, less complaints. But they still buy one anyway... ;)
On 2023-08-05, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I think most folks likely replace their phones for other
reasons before they have battery problems...
Name those reasons that you claim make people want to replace the
phone.
Why do people always feel like purchasing a new phone, whilst the
old one is still very good? It's the same reason why people buy
new clothes or the latest fashion while the old rags are still
very serviceable. It's a fad. It's a fashion fad. It's keeping up
with the Joneses, as the English idiom goes. It's the social
dynamics of peer bonding and peer identification. In short, it's
fashionable.
Since the main reason people replace phones are the battery &
screen, I'm going to have to disagree with all your points below but
I understand them.
It's just a phone. If someone is using a phone to bolster their own
sense of self esteem, then they have much bigger problems than
replacing their phone battery & screen.
Another important reason:- Planned obsolescence: the phone's
operating system software cannot update anymore. It effectively
becomes just a wireless phone with outdated software for other
functions - forcing you buy a new one.
Doesn't happen with Android. Look it up. Android is like Windows. It
updates for ten and more years. Android 4.4 is still being updated.
It's all happening over Google Play nowadays. Has been doing it for
years.
It might be working but working at a snail's pace. Where you can
see a lot of different issues: Low storage, Slowing down, Screen
freeze, Hang I think investing not a big amount, but yes in a good
phone is always a better option. Why? Let's elaborate on this
point. It's a puzzling question: we see people glued to their
phones all day, yet they say they don't want to own one. But
here's the surprise: there's more to this puzzle than meets the
eye! Paying bills by phone: With a simple tap or swipe, phones
have become our digital wallets, making bill payments easy.
Watching Instagram reels all day: From captivating visuals to
hilarious moments, our phones offer a window to endless inspiration
and entertainment at our fingertips! Trying out food recipes:
Whether it's tempting desserts or mouthwatering meals, our trusty
phones have become our culinary companions! Getting instant
information: Need to uncover the universe's secrets or find the
best travel deals? A smartphone becomes our knowledgeable guide,
delivering answers within seconds. Shopping for groceries,
medicines, clothes, and more: In this digital age, our handheld
wonders whisk us away on virtual shopping sprees, bringing life's
necessities just a few taps away! However, some folks choose not to
spend on a phone. Why, you ask? Limited finances: They prioritize
essential needs over wants, ensuring their limited resources are
used for what they truly need. Other investments come first: They
invest in education, ventures, or future security, valuing
long-term benefits over a shiny new phone. When you are spending
the entire day on a particular device, and that too for your
personal and financial needs and we are well aware that without
phones, we cannot even pay the bills or else we must carry cash.
Sometimes we cannot expect the change as we live in the
digitalization era. So, let's unravel the mystery, understand their
motivations, and celebrate the unique perspectives that shape our
world. Related
All that can be done just as well with a 2 or 3 year old phone as
new.
What is the psychological reason as to why people feel the need to
get the newest smartphone when a new one is released? It feels it
gives them status. They will argue other motives to justify it.
It's just a phone. Nobody cares what phone you have. If a phone is
being used for "status" then the person has psych problems.
For about 70% of people, status is very important to them. It
gives them a feeling of belonging and importance. It can not be
changed as it is their personality. For a percentage of them,
status is the most important thing. Why do people buy $550+ phones?
Because there are idiots who fall for any old advertising trick in
the book i.e. "This new phone has curved edges! WOW!" or "Three
cameras! Three times as many pictures!" These are the kind of
people that don't have the patience to wait until the prices come
down or won't buy older ex-display/used models (which are near
enough brand new, except with maybe a little screen burn-in because
it's been sat inside a display case on the same screen every day
for a long time) Nothing wrong with this of course, but for a lot
less you are getting a quality phone which is (and I've compared
the specifications) almost as good as the latest model, and still
comes with a warranty. For example, I picked up an ex-display
Samsung Galaxy S7 (non-edge version) last month for $3000 with
free delivery and a 2 year warranty. I can barely tell that it has
any screen burn-in at all, but if the screen does go kaput, I can
easily send it off to have a replacement screen fitted and STILL
get that cheaper than the full price of the latest $550+ model. It
has all of the necessary features of a modern phone (GPS, Camera,
Fingerprint reader, speaker, audio jack, Gyroscope, SD card port,
Some water proofing capabilities, etc.) What I can't believe is
that most people are happy to pay $50 per month on a 2 year
contract, spending more double the cost of buying the new phone
outright. These people will happily drop their $1000 purchase down
the toilet or on a concrete slab and go buy another one. Some, on
the other hand, will buy a cheap alternative and protect the
investment with a good sturdy phone case, because it think that 3
Million is still a lot of money. On another note,he also can't
believe people that will happily download/run a butt load of
resource hogging apps in the background (facebook, instagram,
twitter, youtube, snapchat, etc.) and call their phone slow and
complain about battery problems when it runs like crap. In my
honest opinion, all you need is a good browser and you can run
everything you need from there. Less resources hogged, less battery
used, less complaints. But they still buy one anyway... ;)
It's just a phone. It's not supposed to replace someone's ego. It's
supposed to make phone calls.
On 8/4/2023 2:36 PM, AJL wrote:
Perhaps the batteries in most phones last just fine until the phone's
replacement without this extra "feature". Further they can last longer
in daily use without this extra "feature". My 4 year old phone (come
September) has. But as always, you know...
My iPhone 11 has lost 8% of its battery capacity in 10 months.
My iPhone 6s Plus has lost only 4% of its battery capacity in 56 months.
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts the
life of the battery?"
On 8/4/2023 11:07 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
<snip>
Well, you could always buy a Samsung phone! :-)
Seriously, they can be set to stop charging at 85%. A very nice
feature, which I wish more devices - like my laptop :-( - had.
I wonder what the reason is that the iPhone, or other Android phones,
have not copied this Samsung feature.
Perhaps there is little upside in a manufacturer prolonging the useful
life of the battery. It's also possible that Samsung patented this
feature and no one wants to risk getting sued for copying it.
Well, you could always buy a Samsung phone! :-)
Seriously, they can be set to stop charging at 85%. A very nice
feature, which I wish more devices - like my laptop :-( - had.
I wonder what the reason is that the iPhone, or other Android phones,
have not copied this Samsung feature.
Perhaps there is little upside in a manufacturer prolonging the useful
life of the battery. It's also possible that Samsung patented this
feature and no one wants to risk getting sued for copying it.
The latter is very unlikely, as several laptops have this stop-at-X% feature, so it would be very hard for Samsung to claim a patent, just
because they implemented it on a phone instead of a laptop.
It's just a phone. It's not supposed to replace someone's ego. It's
supposed to make phone calls.
Chuckle. I just cut and randomly pasted all the above plagiarized BS
from several unrelated online sources that kinda sounded like an answer
for you since I wasn't going to argue with you about my OPINION. Sorry
(maybe not) you fell for it... ;)
On 2023-08-03 17:51, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 20:21:26 +0200, Hergen Lehmann <hlehmann.expires.12-22@snafu.de> wrote:
Am 01.08.23 um 16:45 schrieb Peter:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:Although there might be no *NEED* to charge overnight, for many people
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know >>>> many other people who do.
He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever
need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices. >>
this still is the most reasonable way to do it, because
- the phone will definitely not be in use at this time.
Not true for those of us who read Kindle books on their phone and who
read in bed.
Duh! It is not in use when you are sleeping, then.
But since I charge overnight with a wired charger, that's not a
problem for me.
On 2023-08-01, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.
It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
smart watches,
Not smart watches, if you want them to monitor sleep. I charge mine
while I shower.
Since they're small, how long does it take to charge those watches?
I haven't seen a device take more than two or three hours (at most) lately
to charge to full capacity once you put it on those new smart chargers.
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they would have otherwise.
No effect at all on wall warts as there are many solutions with original style USB connectors on the wart end and whatever you want on the other (micro-USB, lightning, USB-C ...). For that matter there are many kinds
of adaptors.
It's a stupid regulation that probably started as a "what if" and became
a crusade blind to reality.
I'm not sure I understand your typo ridden sentence. But bottom line I
think most folks likely replace their phones for other reasons before
they have battery problems...
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they would have otherwise.
On 8/4/2023 5:06 PM, AJL wrote:
I think most folks likely replace their phones for other reasons
before they have battery problems...
True. Many reasons for a new phone while the old one still works.
Much better cameras, additional bands that improve coverage (like
T-Mobile's band 71 <https://www.expeditioncommunications.com/band-71-fact-and-fiction/>,
better display, larger display, and processor performance to name a
few.
But decreased battery life, broken screens, and defective charging
ports are the top three reasons (or at least the top three excuses).
I'm not sure I understand your typo ridden sentence. But bottom line I
think most folks likely replace their phones for other reasons before
they have battery problems...
True. Many reasons for a new phone while the old one still works. Much
better cameras, additional bands that improve coverage (like T-Mobile's
band 71
https://www.expeditioncommunications.com/band-71-fact-and-fiction/>,
better display, larger display, and processor performance to name a few.
But decreased battery life, broken screens, and defective charging ports
are the top three reasons (or at least the top three excuses).
But decreased battery life, broken screens, and defective charging
ports are the top three reasons (or at least the top three excuses).
Could be. But all I said was that MOST (>50%) folks replace before
battery problems. Depends on the site but this one says 55.47% so at
least my OPINION lucked out with this one...
<https://www.slashgear.com/970484/a-surprising-number-of-people-we-polled-said-they-upgrade-their-phone-every-year/>
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
The bands, camera, display and software aren't making any huge strides.
The last big deal was 5G which was something like three years ago.
I hope the EU wins in making the companies allow consumers to easily swap
out their batteries as it also helps when you're camping & traveling.
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better
display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
That is not the case.
Last computer I bought the better display and the better camera were definitely considerations in choosing a model. The amount of RAM, the
CPU, and the graphics chip were all considerations because they directly affect performance. There are still a LOT of new laptops for sale with
pretty poor specs, including poor cameras, insufficient RAM, and poor displays. You can buy a junky laptop for $300 and people do this all the time.
I was helping someone select a computer for college and put together a
list of minimum requirements that they needed to consider because they
were about to make a major mistake.
The list is at <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BT_JKFuVbc7JgGai300nA5jHslMqpi9XtdEd_ISmpp8/>.
The bands, camera, display and software aren't making any huge strides.
The last big deal was 5G which was something like three years ago.
True, but a lot of people may be upgrading from low-end devices with
poor displays, cameras, modems, etc..
I hope the EU wins in making the companies allow consumers to easily swap
out their batteries as it also helps when you're camping & traveling.
While swappable batteries are wonderful I hope that they don't come at
the expense of IP68.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste. >>If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as
lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Question: Does Apple have any (documented) plans for removing *cables* (not chargers) from new phones, or are they already doing that?
If the answers are "no", then there's no ""pulse" of unwanted
e-waste", because the old Lightning cables will still be used/usable
with the existing phones and the new phones will just be supplied with a *different* cable, no *extra* cable.
Analogy, same as the switch from MicroUSB to USB-C for Android phones.
The only ""pulse" of unwanted e-waste" would be if a phone is being replaced by a new one and the old phone is recycled. I'm afraid that the latter scenario is not all that common as we would like it to be.
No effect at all on wall warts as there are many solutions with original
style USB connectors on the wart end and whatever you want on the other
(micro-USB, lightning, USB-C ...). For that matter there are many kinds
of adaptors.
Indeed. Many people, including part of the media, think/imply/say that
the the EU USB-C regulation is about chargers. It's not, it's about the charging port on the *device* side
It's a stupid regulation that probably started as a "what if" and became
a crusade blind to reality.
Well 'we' beg to differ and 'we' are the ones who count. If someone doesn't want to play by our rules, they're free to not do business
'here'. Apple has to and will budge, it has done so before.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste. >>If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as
lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that.
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a
new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they would have otherwise.
Question: Does Apple have any (documented) plans for removing *cables*
(not chargers) from new phones, or are they already doing that?
If the answers are "no", then there's no ""pulse" of unwanted
e-waste", because the old Lightning cables will still be used/usable
with the existing phones and the new phones will just be supplied with a *different* cable, no *extra* cable.
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
My iPhone 11 has lost 8% of its battery capacity in 10 months.
Sounds like you'll be able to claim that as a repair under warranty. That's not normal.
On 8/5/2023 7:11 PM, Neil wrote:
<snip>
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better
display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
That is not the case.
Last computer I bought the better display and the better camera were >definitely considerations in choosing a model.
On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 08:15:49 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 8/5/2023 7:11 PM, Neil wrote:
<snip>
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better
display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
That is not the case.
Last computer I bought the better display and the better camera were >>definitely considerations in choosing a model.
For you. They are not considerations for me. The last computer I
bought had no display and no camera.
Those are not issues with
desktops, and I greatly prefer a desktop to a laptop.
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On 23/07/2023 10:23, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Finally! :-)
<https://wccftech.com/eu-new-regulations-apple-samsung-others-must-offer-easy-to-replace-batteries/>
EU Approves New Regulations That Require Apple, Samsung And Countless
Others To Offer ?Easy to Replace? Batteries
Sadly a lot of devices are being supplied with batteries inside
welded-shut covers.
My last two Samsung phones have had no battery door, and my latest HP
laptop has no battery door (and no doors for removing HDD or RAM).
In all these cases, when (not if) the battery stops holding its charge,
it will be a major exercise finding someone who can unglue the back so a
replacement battery can be fitted.
My record with laptops is not good: every laptop I've owned has needed a
new battery after about 3 years. I've got another two years or so before
my present laptop is likely to need a new battery...
Do you often keep your laptops on the charger, even when the battery
is full?
If so, a battery kept at full charge (100%) limits the life of the battery. I ruined several laptop batteries that way. Now, for some three years, I use the charger on an AC timer, which tops up the battery for
an hour or so in the morning, instead of charging/trickling it the whole
day.
A better way would be if the laptop stopped charging at some 80%, but
my (HP) laptop(s) do not have such a feature (very few consumer/non-
business laptops have). (Gladly, my Samsung *phone* does have this
feature.)
On 8/5/2023 9:55 AM, Chris wrote:
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts
the life of the battery?"
Repairs are available.
It's not that they're "available" but that they're as easy to replace as popping out and then popping in a brand new battery by the consumer.
Any company who touts their ewaste strategy that seals in batteries is not matching their caring environmentalist words to their callous actions.
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts the
life of the battery?"
Repairs are available.
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better >>>> display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
I bought the Pixel2 because the camera was SOOOO much better than the
one on the Motorola. Plus nobody ever had too much memory...
That is not the case.
Last computer I bought the better display and the better camera were >>>definitely considerations in choosing a model.
For you. They are not considerations for me. The last computer I
bought had no display and no camera.
We put my current computer together in August 2011. Anniversary coming
up in a few days. I've replaced drives, monitors and mice and maybe a graphics card. And the Model M keyboard to replace the Model M I
spilled coffee into. Still happy and resisting the upgrade to Slackware
15. Hubby forgets how painful such things are. I don't.
Those are not issues with
desktops, and I greatly prefer a desktop to a laptop.
Definitely. Each year I hope that the bastards are lying about the tax software requiring Win11 rather than Win7 on the machine I use for
taxes. I have a decent Win11 notebook, but the 17" screen is too small
and I really don't have a good place to put it. You know the people
whose homes have NO free horizontal surfaces? Yup...
I downloaded Open Tax Solver for linux but haven't installed it yet.
On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 14:08:07 -0400, nospam wrote:
there are also a number of third party accessories that use lightning
which will no longer be usable with the new phone
Whose fault is that?
If a company constantly advertises they care about e-waste and then everything they do with their cables creates more e-waste, whose fault is
it that the government puts a stop to their special-cabling standards?
there are also a number of third party accessories that use lightning
which will no longer be usable with the new phone
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have
to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
On 2023-08-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either
have to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
For every person like you who goes to great lengths to only buy Apple equipment there are ten to a hundred like me who have both standards.
I have to keep two types of cables for every one cable you have above.
For Apple to create ten times more e-waste at the same time with those
teary eyed ads Apple claims to care about the environment is deceitful.
On 8/6/2023 5:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better >>>>> display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
I bought the Pixel2 because the camera was SOOOO much better than the
one on the Motorola. Plus nobody ever had too much memory...
But haven't cameras plateaued, just like display technology has?
If you had wanted that better camera at the time you bought the Motorola,
it would have existed, most likely, in some form or another already.
About the only thing "new" in smartphones are the folding ones but I would refer to them as nascent technology at their current stage of development.
If you wanted a folding smartphone, THAT would drive a new sale.
But not a better camera (since better cameras existed 3 years ago).
Smartphones have matured (or plateaued, or stagnated, pick your term).
Keep in mind that they still need to sell you a phone that you don't need
so they will change SOMETHING to make you want it - maybe the color?
That is not the case.
Last computer I bought the better display and the better camera were >>>>definitely considerations in choosing a model.
For you. They are not considerations for me. The last computer I
bought had no display and no camera.
We put my current computer together in August 2011. Anniversary coming
up in a few days. I've replaced drives, monitors and mice and maybe a
graphics card. And the Model M keyboard to replace the Model M I
spilled coffee into. Still happy and resisting the upgrade to Slackware
15. Hubby forgets how painful such things are. I don't.
This brings up a good point since my desktop is probably as old as yours. Like you, I upgrade cards, monitor, keyboard, mouse and drives over time.
This keeps e-waste down to a minimum just as a replaceable battery would.
Those are not issues with
desktops, and I greatly prefer a desktop to a laptop.
Definitely. Each year I hope that the bastards are lying about the tax
software requiring Win11 rather than Win7 on the machine I use for
taxes. I have a decent Win11 notebook, but the 17" screen is too small
and I really don't have a good place to put it. You know the people
whose homes have NO free horizontal surfaces? Yup...
I downloaded Open Tax Solver for linux but haven't installed it yet.
What I find is most of us older people who have laptops use them static,
and therefore essentially as desktops.
They don't have easily replaced batteries so that's what kills them too.
Just like smartphones, if the battery were easily replaced, ewaste would go down tremendously as they probably would sell one half as many new laptops.
Any company touting their ewaste strategy that does not also build in
easily replaced pop-in/pop-out batteries isn't matching their words to
their actions.
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste. >>>If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as
lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they >>> would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that.
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a
new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have
to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
On 8/6/23 12:07 PM, Ken Blake wrote:[...]
Those are not issues with
desktops, and I greatly prefer a desktop to a laptop.
Definitely. Each year I hope that the bastards are lying about the tax software requiring Win11 rather than Win7 on the machine I use for
taxes. I have a decent Win11 notebook, but the 17" screen is too small
and I really don't have a good place to put it. You know the people
whose homes have NO free horizontal surfaces? Yup...
I downloaded Open Tax Solver for linux but haven't installed it yet.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as
lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they >>> would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have
to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers.
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end.
The market cannot be trusted to do the best for anyone other than
themselves or their shareholders.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste. >>>>If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as
lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they >>>> would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have
to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers.
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end.
The market cannot be trusted to do the best for anyone other than
themselves or their shareholders.
On 2023-08-06, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either
have to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
For every person like you who goes to great lengths to only buy Apple equipment there are ten to a hundred like me who have both standards.
I have to keep two types of cables for every one cable you have above.
For Apple to create ten times more e-waste at the same time with those
teary eyed ads Apple claims to care about the environment is deceitful.
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they >>>>> would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which
have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers.
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to
step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind
USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end. >>
The market cannot be trusted to do the best for anyone other than
themselves or their shareholders.
It's kind of funny that the Apple adepts nearly always justify Apple's decisions/action/features/etc. by pointing out that that's what fits the majority of users, never mind the needs/wants of a particular user.
But in cases like this, when the needs/wants of the overwhelming
majority goes against what Apple wants, they 'justify' Apple's stance
with their exception scenarios.
They also seem to conveniently 'forget' that Apple is already using
USB-C ports on iPads and that many - if not most/all - people/
households have both iPhones and iPads, so they do already have the
dreaded USB-C cables.
As I implied before, I didn't/don't mind the switch from MicroUSB to
USB-C on Android devices. Yes, it gave me more different cables and no,
I never had any problems with MicroUSB, but I'm all for standardization,
so I just swallow my little bit of the 'burden'/'waste', because standardization without initial 'waste' is impossible.
On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 14:08:07 -0400, nospam wrote:
there are also a number of third party accessories that use lightning
which will no longer be usable with the new phone
Whose fault is that?
If a company constantly advertises they care about e-waste and then everything they do with their cables creates more e-waste, whose fault is
it that the government puts a stop to their special-cabling standards?
On 8/6/2023 5:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better >>>>> display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
I bought the Pixel2 because the camera was SOOOO much better than the
one on the Motorola. Plus nobody ever had too much memory...
But haven't cameras plateaued, just like display technology has?
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out
there that are perfectly functional.
Proving my point - this a forced waste case on iPhone users - all due to
EU meddling.
On 8/7/2023 8:40 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
Apple, however needed better than micro-USB to replace the 30 pin
connector and USB-C was still 2 years away. And Apple were part of
the USB-C design group.
Doesn't mean anyone needs to be forced by regulation to adopt it.
Since no manufacturer adopted the lightning cable, that means the market never wanted it, never needed it, and now is asking Apple to get rid of it.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new
iPhones?
Most people have families. Most families have both types.
Having to put two different cables in every place their phones were
used caused more e-waste.
Apple, however needed better than micro-USB to replace the 30 pin
connector and USB-C was still 2 years away. And Apple were part of the
USB-C design group.
Doesn't mean anyone needs to be forced by regulation to adopt it.
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its
established cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these
cables out there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste, but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
Proving my point - this a forced waste case on iPhone users - all due
to EU meddling.
You use only 100% Apple but you aren't close to what a normal family uses.
Most people have families. Most families have both types. Having to put two different cables in every place their phones were used caused more e-waste.
Not at all - Apple has invested greatly in environmental improvement
over the years and never stops.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
Yes, I have to admit they were very late in abandoning technology from
the late 1800's. They should have done so sooner.
The only reason for the adaptor was for people with non-Apple TRS
headsets. My son still uses my SO's adaptor for his pretty old (but
very good) headset.
Most people have families. Most families have both types. Having to put two >> different cables in every place their phones were used caused more e-waste.
We've never had anything but iPhones here since my son's first
smartphone. I followed and then my SO followed a year or so later.
And that is a thing, at least in North America, where families tend to
stick within one kind of system.
But all that being said, no matter what, there are over 100M iPhones in Europe (probably far more) and for each one there are a couple cables.
So this EU decision will render these cables obsolete sooner than their useful life spans.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new
iPhones?
That's the coming thing so might as well get used to it.
My recent
Chrome tablet purchase doesn't have a headphone hole. Neither does the
latest Amazon tablet (Max 11) though all earlier models did.
Most people have families. Most families have both types.
I can't remember the last time I saw anyone wearing a headphone wire
when out and about. Guess most folks are surviving...
Having to put two different cables in every place their phones were
used caused more e-waste.
I just use an adapter. No biggie. And then there's also Bluetooth...
Since no manufacturer adopted the lightning cable, that means the market
never wanted it, never needed it, and now is asking Apple to get rid of it.
Apple users are generally very satisfied with Lightning - and that is
200M+ iPhones per year.
So this silly EU regulation means a lot of Lightning cables will be prematurely thrown out despite being useful to hundreds of millions of people. (or forcing the purchase of adaptors to keep them going: more e-waste either way).
To be sure, at some point Apple would have changed phones to USB-C, but
that should be their business decision, not bureaucrats in Europe. If a small country like Lichtenstein had imposed, alone, this rule, Apple
would have simply stopped selling there.
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its
established cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these
cables out there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste, but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
Proving my point - this a forced waste case on iPhone users - all due
to EU meddling.
You use only 100% Apple but you aren't close to what a normal family uses.
Most people have families. Most families have both types. Having to put two different cables in every place their phones were used caused more e-waste.
On 2023-08-07 02:48, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they >>>>> would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which
have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers.
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to
step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind
USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end.
Actually, over time, manufacturers gravitated (w/o government pressure)
to chargers with a USB Type A output and Type A to micro-USB cable.
This across a very wide range of products covering cell phones and many
other classes of products.
All due to market forces: such chargers and cables became common and cheap.
AJL wrote:
That's [no headphone hole] the coming thing so might as well get
used to it.
No. It's not. Most Android devices have the headphone jack.
people with money have no qualms about e-waste caused by their
purchases of wasteful bluetooth devices (which pollute even more due
to those batteries).
My recent Chrome tablet purchase doesn't have a headphone hole.
Neither does the latest Amazon tablet (Max 11) though all earlier
models did.
I bought two Samsung tablets from Costco just last month, one was on
sale but then they ran out of them so I bought another. Both have
the jack.
You just made a bad purchasing decision (if you wanted the jack that
is).
I can't remember the last time I saw anyone wearing a headphone
wire when out and about. Guess most folks are surviving...
You've never been on an airplane?
Besides, how is a phone that does NOT have the headphone jack better
than a phone that does have the jack?
You paid more. For less.
If you purchase worse devices, that's just a bad buying decision,
especially if you ended up paying more for that device that's worse.
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established
cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out
there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste, but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
On 8/5/2023 9:55 AM, Chris wrote:
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts the
life of the battery?"
Repairs are available.
It's not that they're "available" but that they're as easy to replace as popping out and then popping in a brand new battery by the consumer.
Any company who touts their ewaste strategy that seals in batteries is not matching their caring environmentalist words to their callous actions.
On 8/6/2023 5:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Just like nobody buys a new computer for the "extra RAM" or the "better >>>>> display" or the "better camera" anymore, the technology has matured.
I bought the Pixel2 because the camera was SOOOO much better than the
one on the Motorola. Plus nobody ever had too much memory...
But haven't cameras plateaued, just like display technology has?
If you had wanted that better camera at the time you bought the Motorola,
it would have existed, most likely, in some form or another already.
About the only thing "new" in smartphones are the folding ones but I would refer to them as nascent technology at their current stage of development.
If you wanted a folding smartphone, THAT would drive a new sale.
But not a better camera (since better cameras existed 3 years ago).
Smartphones have matured (or plateaued, or stagnated, pick your term).
Keep in mind that they still need to sell you a phone that you don't need
so they will change SOMETHING to make you want it - maybe the color?
That is not the case.
Last computer I bought the better display and the better camera were
definitely considerations in choosing a model.
For you. They are not considerations for me. The last computer I
bought had no display and no camera.
We put my current computer together in August 2011. Anniversary coming
up in a few days. I've replaced drives, monitors and mice and maybe a
graphics card. And the Model M keyboard to replace the Model M I
spilled coffee into. Still happy and resisting the upgrade to Slackware
15. Hubby forgets how painful such things are. I don't.
This brings up a good point since my desktop is probably as old as yours. Like you, I upgrade cards, monitor, keyboard, mouse and drives over time.
This keeps e-waste down to a minimum just as a replaceable battery would.
Those are not issues with
desktops, and I greatly prefer a desktop to a laptop.
Definitely. Each year I hope that the bastards are lying about the tax
software requiring Win11 rather than Win7 on the machine I use for
taxes. I have a decent Win11 notebook, but the 17" screen is too small
and I really don't have a good place to put it. You know the people
whose homes have NO free horizontal surfaces? Yup...
I downloaded Open Tax Solver for linux but haven't installed it yet.
What I find is most of us older people who have laptops use them static,
and therefore essentially as desktops.
They don't have easily replaced batteries so that's what kills them too.
Just like smartphones, if the battery were easily replaced, ewaste would go down tremendously as they probably would sell one half as many new laptops.
Any company touting their ewaste strategy that does not also build in
easily replaced pop-in/pop-out batteries isn't matching their words to
their actions.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 02:48, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:Actually, over time, manufacturers gravitated (w/o government pressure)
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they >>>>>> would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>>>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which >>> have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers. >>>
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to >>> step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind >>> USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end. >>
Wrong. Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can thank the EC for that. Manufacturers voluntarily standardised to *avoid* regulation. They signed
an MoU saying as much. https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/30/eu-lawmakers-take-fresh-aim-at-apples-lightning-connector-with-latest-e-waste-push/
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/11982/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/pdf
to chargers with a USB Type A output and Type A to micro-USB cable.
This across a very wide range of products covering cell phones and many
other classes of products.
All due to market forces: such chargers and cables became common and cheap.
No market forces involved. It was regulators leaning on them.
This brings up a good point since my desktop is probably as old as yours.
Like you, I upgrade cards, monitor, keyboard, mouse and drives over time.
Is it the same machine, tho? ;)
No. It's not. Most Android devices have the headphone jack.
For now...
In my defense, when I get tired of a toy I give them to a grand/great grandkid to use and when they throw them away THEY make the e-waste...
If you Google it you'll see some Samsung tablets don't have a headphone jack...
You just made a bad purchasing decision (if you wanted the jack that
is).
I do use wire headphones to listen to my music. But only 2 of my devices sound good to my old ears and they do have headphone jacks so I didn't
care about the new toys.
I can't remember the last time I saw anyone wearing a headphone
wire when out and about. Guess most folks are surviving...
You've never been on an airplane?
Last time was in 1992. But I see hundreds (thousands?) of folks every
day when out and about. How many does an airplane hold again?
Wrong. Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can thank the EC for that. Manufacturers voluntarily standardised to *avoid* regulation. They signed
an MoU saying as much. https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/30/eu-lawmakers-take-fresh-aim-at-apples-lightning-connector-with-latest-e-waste-push/
AJL wrote:
No. It's not. Most Android devices have the headphone jack.
For now...
They have lithium ion batteries for now too.
There's nothing a device without the jack can do that one with it can't do.
A device without the headphone jack is worse than one that has it.
If they drop the price by fifty bucks when they remove it, that's OK.
The fact that most devices sold today have the jack is a key datapoint.
So is the fact that there's no advantage to a device without the jack.
If you paid the same for a device without the jack as one with it,
you were ripped off (probably to the tune of about fifty bucks or so).
On 8/7/2023 6:47 PM, Chris wrote:
Repairs are available.
It's not that they're "available" but that they're as easy to replace as >>> popping out and then popping in a brand new battery by the consumer.
Any company who touts their ewaste strategy that seals in batteries
is not
matching their caring environmentalist words to their callous actions.
Sure. Companies could certainly make it easier for consumers to change
them
[1] but that's missing my point. It's silly to change a phone simply
because the battery is failing as they can be repaired for far less than
the cost of a new phone.
[1] I remember when phones did have consumer changeable batteries and
people rarely did. It also made phones more fragile. So often a dropped
phone would break up into three pieces as the battery flew out of the
enclosure.
What Apple does is makes repairs so expensive and so difficult that people are either forced to buy their apple care plan (which is ridiculous) or they're forced to pay a hundred dollars to replace a twenty dollar battery.
When you're forced to pay five times the cost of a battery because Apple forces you to use their repair facilities (which have the unlockers), you start to think of the alternatives.
Namely, why completely waste by unnecessarily gifting Apple eighty dollars
of your original hundred when you can put it toward a new phone instead.
With Android, nobody buys the expensive care package (because it's not
needed and Android owners are more sensible than Apple owners) so the
equation is more obvious because you can buy that twenty dollar battery for twenty dollars instead of for a hundred dollars at a repair shop.
You pop out the old battery. You pop in the new one. You're only $20 in the hole & your phone is now acting as fresh as it was when the phone was new.
On 8/7/2023 6:42 PM, Chris wrote:
This brings up a good point since my desktop is probably as old as
yours.
Like you, I upgrade cards, monitor, keyboard, mouse and drives over
time.
Is it the same machine, tho? ;)
It started as Windows 8 and went to Vista and then to Windows 10 (but it won't run Windows 11 yet) so Microsoft thinks its the same machine.
I keep my desktop on my desk with the side cover off (to allow cooling) and by looking at it, it's the same case, the same power supply, the same motherboard and the same DVD drive & USB ports and RAM as the original.
What changed over time was the monitor, the keyboard, mouse, disk drive
(one failed) and I replaced the graphics card when someone gave me it.
Being able to pop out stuff to upgrade or repair it lowers e-waste overall.
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 08:35:40 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Not at all - Apple has invested greatly in environmental improvement
over the years and never stops.
Apple authors flowery ads about e-waste which nobody believes because
there's nothing that Apple says about e-waste that matches their actions.
Almost everything Apple does - from forcing companies to crush perfectly
good iPhones (to keep them off the market) to secretly slowing down iPhones to removing ports to locking replacement batteries - is to force people to buy something to replace what Apple took off the market - causing e-waste.
On 8/7/2023 11:57 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
Since no manufacturer adopted the lightning cable, that means the market >>> never wanted it, never needed it, and now is asking Apple to get rid
of it.
Apple users are generally very satisfied with Lightning - and that is
200M+ iPhones per year.
I'm an Apple user. And I'm not satisfied with keeping two cables around.
I have to keep around twice as many cables only because of Apple's e-waste.
It's wasteful.
So this silly EU regulation means a lot of Lightning cables will be
prematurely thrown out despite being useful to hundreds of millions of
people. (or forcing the purchase of adaptors to keep them going: more
e-waste either way).
While Apple causes e-waste by their actions (which make people replace what Apple removed) I'm more interested in the EU policies around the batteries.
The easier consumers can replace batteries, the less e-waste there will be.
To be sure, at some point Apple would have changed phones to USB-C,
but that should be their business decision, not bureaucrats in
Europe. If a small country like Lichtenstein had imposed, alone, this
rule, Apple would have simply stopped selling there.
Apple is like Russia - they only advertise they left Kiev as a "goodwill gesture" after they are confronted with overwhelmingly powerful forces.
If the EU forces Apple to stop making it harder to replace batteries, everyone wins (except for Apple, of course) in terms of less e-waste.
But Apple will claim they did it as a "goodwill gesture" just as Russia
does, given Apple's e-wasteful actions don't match Apple's e-waste words.
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new
iPhones?
Yes, I have to admit they were very late in abandoning technology from
the late 1800's. They should have done so sooner.
The funny thing is that Apple's only explanation was that it was courageous for them to force people to buy all new equipment that they didn't need.
Given almost all Android phones sold today have the useful port, all Apple
really accomplished was to force its own owners to create more e-waste.
The only reason for the adaptor was for people with non-Apple TRS
headsets. My son still uses my SO's adaptor for his pretty old (but
very good) headset.
Forcing people to buy an adaptor that wasn't needed, created more e-waste.
Most people have families. Most families have both types. Having to
put two
different cables in every place their phones were used caused more
e-waste.
We've never had anything but iPhones here since my son's first
smartphone. I followed and then my SO followed a year or so later.
Most people have families. Most families have both types of devices.
That means most families have to buy twice the number of cables needed.
And that is a thing, at least in North America, where families tend to
stick within one kind of system.
Bullshit. You are claiming everyone in every family is exactly the same.
People use what they like, and many of those people like Windows & Android.
Count up the Windows & Android devices in the world, and compare that to
the iPhone & Mac devices, and I'll wager they overwhelm Apple ten to one.
But all that being said, no matter what, there are over 100M iPhones
in Europe (probably far more) and for each one there are a couple
cables. So this EU decision will render these cables obsolete sooner
than their useful life spans.
Despite Apple's supplicating ads about how much Apple so deeply cares about e-waste, Apple's own well-documented actions do not match Apple's words.
BTW I'm sitting killing time in a Target store right now. You'll be
happy to know all their tablets have jacks...
On 2023-08-07 10:49, Chris wrote:
No market forces involved. It was regulators leaning on them.
Funny that neither of your sources says that...
Ankora <ankora1234567890@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established
cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out
there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones? >>
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste, >> but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
Also guaranteed regular throwing away or "repair" of wireless headphones
when they stop working every few years. Airpods cannot have their batteries replaced.
I still have wired headphones that still work after 30 years. Impossible
with wireless.
On 7 Aug 2023 at 5:49:21 PM, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Wrong. Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can thank the EC for that.
Manufacturers voluntarily standardised to *avoid* regulation. They signed
an MoU saying as much.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/30/eu-lawmakers-take-fresh-aim-at-apples-lightning-connector-with-latest-e-waste-push/
What was interesting was the part where they said Apple had plenty of time but all Apple did was stall any attempt to reduce e-waste they caused.
On 2023-08-07 13:54, Chris wrote:
Ankora <ankora1234567890@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:Also guaranteed regular throwing away or "repair" of wireless headphones
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established >>>> cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out
there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones? >>>
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste, >>> but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables). >>
when they stop working every few years. Airpods cannot have their batteries >> replaced.
Sure they can. Not pretty mind you.
I still have wired headphones that still work after 30 years. Impossible
with wireless.
Very possible.
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to step in before?
Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones.
The industry then aligned behind
USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end.
It's kind of funny that the Apple adepts nearly always justify Apple's decisions/action/features/etc. by pointing out that that's what fits the majority of users, never mind the needs/wants of a particular user.
But in cases like this, when the needs/wants of the overwhelming
majority goes against what Apple wants, they 'justify' Apple's stance
with their exception scenarios.
They also seem to conveniently 'forget' that Apple is already using
USB-C ports on iPads and that many - if not most/all - people/
households have both iPhones and iPads, so they do already have the
dreaded USB-C cables.
Since no manufacturer adopted the lightning cable,
2010: Lightning.
2012: USB-C
Apple would have continued with Lightning on the iPhone for 2023 and
probably 2024 - meaning all those cables out there remain usable for secondary purpose (office, car, guests in one's home, etc.)
But now - because of the idiot EU, many lightning cables that would
continue to serve will become e-waste earlier (or have a adaptors added
to them).
And by the time USB-C is firmly rooted as a standard, it will no longer
be good enough and will have to be replaced with something better.
The irony is amazing.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 13:54, Chris wrote:
Ankora <ankora1234567890@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:Also guaranteed regular throwing away or "repair" of wireless headphones >>> when they stop working every few years. Airpods cannot have their batteries >>> replaced.
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it >>>>> when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established >>>>> cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out >>>>> there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones? >>>>
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste,
but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables). >>>
Sure they can. Not pretty mind you.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/apple-airpods-and-wireless-headphones-can-you-replace-their-batteries-aakre7T7gI2p
I still have wired headphones that still work after 30 years. Impossible >>> with wireless.
Very possible.
Doubtful.
On 2023-08-07 13:49, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 02:48, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:Actually, over time, manufacturers gravitated (w/o government pressure)
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>>>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>>>>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used >>>>> cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>>>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which >>>> have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers. >>>>
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to >>>> step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind >>>> USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end. >>>
Wrong. Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can thank the EC for that.
Manufacturers voluntarily standardised to *avoid* regulation. They signed
an MoU saying as much.
Stranger to reality are you? The fact is the USB-C cable came out in
2012
smartphones continues to do so. But now my Lightning cables will become e-waste when I get a new iPhone with USB-C [I'll stipulate that by the
time I get a new iPhone, iPhone would have already gone that way - EU nonsense or not - but the same can't be said for my SO's phone coming
this fall]).
So I'll be forced to buy more USB-C cables (WASTE!) or adaptors (WASTE!).
https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/30/eu-lawmakers-take-fresh-aim-at-apples-lightning-connector-with-latest-e-waste-push/
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/11982/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/pdf
to chargers with a USB Type A output and Type A to micro-USB cable.No market forces involved. It was regulators leaning on them.
This across a very wide range of products covering cell phones and many
other classes of products.
All due to market forces: such chargers and cables became common and cheap. >>
Where not needed. As usual. The USB-C standard was being picked up manufacturer by manufacturer long before the EU got into the mob
pressure game.
On 2023-08-07 18:01, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 13:54, Chris wrote:
Ankora <ankora1234567890@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it >>>>>> when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established >>>>>> cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out >>>>>> there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste,
but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
Also guaranteed regular throwing away or "repair" of wireless headphones >>>> when they stop working every few years. Airpods cannot have their batteries
replaced.
Sure they can. Not pretty mind you.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/apple-airpods-and-wireless-headphones-can-you-replace-their-batteries-aakre7T7gI2p
Silly boy. Always go to the experts, not the gloomy gus.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AirPods+Battery+Replacement/140076
I still have wired headphones that still work after 30 years. Impossible >>>> with wireless.
Very possible.
Doubtful.
<cough>
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AirPods+Battery+Replacement/140076
In article <RidAM.510276$TPw2.385350@fx17.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
2010: Lightning.
2012 for the first iphones, the iphone 5 and 5s.
2012: USB-C
2015 for the first devices, including apple's retina macbook and
google's pixelbook.
Apple would have continued with Lightning on the iPhone for 2023 and
probably 2024 - meaning all those cables out there remain usable for
secondary purpose (office, car, guests in one's home, etc.)
maybe.
apple has been transitioning their entire product line to usb-c over
time where it makes sense and offers tangible benefits to users.
what they aren't doing is changing ports just to fill a checklist.
But now - because of the idiot EU, many lightning cables that would
continue to serve will become e-waste earlier (or have a adaptors added
to them).
yep.
And by the time USB-C is firmly rooted as a standard, it will no longer
be good enough and will have to be replaced with something better.
yep. usb-c is already nearly a decade old.
The irony is amazing.
yep.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 13:49, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 02:48, Chris wrote:Wrong. Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can thank the EC for that.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that.
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a
new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft. >>>>>>
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used >>>>>> cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>>>>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which >>>>> have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers. >>>>>
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to >>>>> step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has >>>>> different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind >>>>> USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end.
Actually, over time, manufacturers gravitated (w/o government pressure) >>>
Manufacturers voluntarily standardised to *avoid* regulation. They signed >>> an MoU saying as much.
Stranger to reality are you? The fact is the USB-C cable came out in
2012
I mean, if you're going to make shit up at least try it with something
harder to verify. USB-C was published in 2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
The first smartphone with USB-C wasn't until 2015 https://www.stuff.tv/news/worlds-first-phone-usb-type-c-port-here-and-youve-probably-never-heard-it/
. Apple came out with Lightning in 2010. It had long legs and for
smartphones continues to do so. But now my Lightning cables will become
e-waste when I get a new iPhone with USB-C [I'll stipulate that by the
time I get a new iPhone, iPhone would have already gone that way - EU
nonsense or not - but the same can't be said for my SO's phone coming
this fall]).
So I'll be forced to buy more USB-C cables (WASTE!) or adaptors (WASTE!).
Apple could have started adopting it in 2016 like it did with their
laptops.
I mean, buying adaptors comes with the territory with Apple. I've always
had to buy adaptors for my Macs whether it's thunderbolt, mini-displayport, ethernet, USB, HDMI. This is nothing new.
https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/30/eu-lawmakers-take-fresh-aim-at-apples-lightning-connector-with-latest-e-waste-push/
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/11982/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/pdf
to chargers with a USB Type A output and Type A to micro-USB cable.
This across a very wide range of products covering cell phones and many >>>> other classes of products.
All due to market forces: such chargers and cables became common and cheap.
No market forces involved. It was regulators leaning on them.
Where not needed. As usual. The USB-C standard was being picked up
manufacturer by manufacturer long before the EU got into the mob
pressure game.
Struggling to read are you? The MoU was drafted in 2009 and signed in 2011 significantly *before* USB-C came out. It required the use of micro-USB or USB-A which surprise, surprise is exactly what manufacturers did until
USB-C became more mainstream over the last 5 years or so.
Apple refusing to drop lightning forced the EC's hand.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:01, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 13:54, Chris wrote:
Ankora <ankora1234567890@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it >>>>>>> when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established >>>>>>> cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out >>>>>>> there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste,
but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
Also guaranteed regular throwing away or "repair" of wireless headphones >>>>> when they stop working every few years. Airpods cannot have their batteries
replaced.
Sure they can. Not pretty mind you.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/apple-airpods-and-wireless-headphones-can-you-replace-their-batteries-aakre7T7gI2p
Silly boy. Always go to the experts, not the gloomy gus.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AirPods+Battery+Replacement/140076
I still have wired headphones that still work after 30 years. Impossible >>>>> with wireless.
Very possible.
Doubtful.
<cough>
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AirPods+Battery+Replacement/140076
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
also keep in mind that while apple standardized on lightning,
android had *five* variants of usb connectors (mini, ext, micro,
micro3 and usb-c),
forcing many android users to replace their cables with every new
phone.
2010: Lightning.
2012 for the first iphones, the iphone 5 and 5s.
2012: USB-C
2015 for the first devices, including apple's retina macbook and
google's pixelbook.
Thanks for the corrections - temporal phase shift.
The first smartphone with USB-C wasn't until 2015
Apple could have started adopting it in 2016 like it did with their
laptops.
I mean, buying adaptors comes with the territory with Apple. I've always
had to buy adaptors for my Macs whether it's thunderbolt, mini-displayport, ethernet, USB, HDMI. This is nothing new.
also keep in mind that while apple standardized on lightning,
android had *five* variants of usb connectors (mini, ext, micro,
micro3 and usb-c),
Perhaps a little unfair? While Apple is one company, Android OS devices
were made by several companies with (over the years) different
connection ideas...
forcing many android users to replace their cables with every new
phone.
Probably not so much if they stayed with the same company.
But then the
backup Apple phone and the current Apple phones living in my house have different connectors. So it happens...
BTW my most recent Chrome tablet purchase didn't come with either a
cable or a charger (or gasp a headphone jack). Perhaps the new way...
On 2023-08-07 12:11, Mickey D wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 08:35:40 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Not at all - Apple has invested greatly in environmental improvement
over the years and never stops.
Apple authors flowery ads about e-waste which nobody believes because
there's nothing that Apple says about e-waste that matches their actions.
Malarkey. They write an annual report about environmental programs and actual results every year.
And because they are a publicly traded co. and make clear commitments to their environmental programs they could be civilly sued if they failed
to meet their promises in a significant manner.
Almost everything Apple does - from forcing companies to crush perfectly
good iPhones (to keep them off the market) to secretly slowing down iPhones >> to removing ports to locking replacement batteries - is to force people to >> buy something to replace what Apple took off the market - causing e-waste.
More Malarkey. Apple recycles phones (via 3rd parties) to recover
material. They are not "crushed" or destroyed indiscriminately as some
press sources suggest w/o showing any proof.
Apple authors flowery ads about e-waste which nobody believes because
there's nothing that Apple says about e-waste that matches their actions.
Malarkey. They write an annual report about environmental programs and actual results every year.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
also keep in mind that while apple standardized on lightning,
android had *five* variants of usb connectors (mini, ext, micro,
micro3 and usb-c),
Perhaps a little unfair? While Apple is one company, Android OS devices
were made by several companies with (over the years) different
connection ideas...
the first android phone had ext-usb, quickly followed by mini-usb, then
micro and now usb-c, regardless of manufacturer. some phones used
micro-usb3 before usb-c became widespread.
apple switched connectors once in the same time frame that android had
five different connectors
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 16:57:13 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-08-07 12:11, Mickey D wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 08:35:40 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:Malarkey. They write an annual report about environmental programs and
Not at all - Apple has invested greatly in environmental improvement
over the years and never stops.
Apple authors flowery ads about e-waste which nobody believes because
there's nothing that Apple says about e-waste that matches their actions. >>
actual results every year.
Maybe you should read what Apple does and not what Apple says they do.
Apple is upset that a Canadian recycling company reused iPhones and other devices, rather than "shredding" them to make people buy more instead. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/
And because they are a publicly traded co. and make clear commitments to
their environmental programs they could be civilly sued if they failed
to meet their promises in a significant manner.
Maybe you sh9ould read teh business news about what Appkle does versus what Apple says they do (which are two completely different things).
Apple sues recycling partner for reselling more than 100,000 iPhones,
iPads, and Watches it was hired to crush instead. And that's only the LTE models. https://www.theverge.com/apple/2020/10/4/21499422/apple-sues-recycling-company-reselling-ipods-ipads-w
Almost everything Apple does - from forcing companies to crush perfectly >>> good iPhones (to keep them off the market) to secretly slowing down iPhones >>> to removing ports to locking replacement batteries - is to force people to >>> buy something to replace what Apple took off the market - causing e-waste. >>More Malarkey. Apple recycles phones (via 3rd parties) to recover
material. They are not "crushed" or destroyed indiscriminately as some
press sources suggest w/o showing any proof.
Maybe you've never read the news about how Apple doesn't do what they say they do.
Why Apple is not so green: The truth behind its recycling program https://www.recyclereminders.com/blog/truth-behind-apple-recycling-program/
Apple authors flowery ads about e-waste which nobody believes becauseMalarkey. They write an annual report about environmental programs and
there's nothing that Apple says about e-waste that matches their actions. >>
actual results every year.
What Apple says they do and what Apple does are two very different things which you're not aware of because you've never read the news about Apple.
Apple Isn't as Green as It Claims
When it comes to recycling old phones, the company's lofty rhetoric is colliding with its bottom line. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2020-10-17/maybe-apple-isn-t-as-green-as-it-claims
Please don't say every well published well established well known truth
about Apple is malarky simply because you don't ever read the news.
On 2023-08-07 18:31, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:01, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 13:54, Chris wrote:
Ankora <ankora1234567890@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it >>>>>>>> when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established
cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out >>>>>>>> there that are perfectly functional.
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new iPhones?
By that act, not only did Apple turn wired headphones into instant e-waste,
but everyone had to purchase unnecessary replacements (or adaptor cables).
Also guaranteed regular throwing away or "repair" of wireless headphones >>>>>> when they stop working every few years. Airpods cannot have their batteries
replaced.
Sure they can. Not pretty mind you.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/apple-airpods-and-wireless-headphones-can-you-replace-their-batteries-aakre7T7gI2p
Silly boy. Always go to the experts, not the gloomy gus.
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AirPods+Battery+Replacement/140076
I still have wired headphones that still work after 30 years. Impossible >>>>>> with wireless.
Very possible.
Doubtful.
<cough>
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/AirPods+Battery+Replacement/140076
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist >> for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
They will most certainly be around because small form factor Li-ion
batteries are needed in many, many places. I doubt Apple spec'd them -
they shopped them.
I have Li-ion battery on a GPS receiver that is only a few mm across
(button form). It's to hold up the receiver RAM when there is no power.
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
Proven false. Though I'd agree that people will _want_ the latest
versions so the life of a given AirPod would be closer to 1 battery
cycle than many.
My SO's Airpods are now 3 years old with no sign of battery shortness -
and she uses them for about 2 hours in the morning and another hour in
the evening. Many days, she uses them more than that.
On 2023-08-07 18:20, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 13:49, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 02:48, Chris wrote:Wrong. Sorry to bust your bubble, but you can thank the EC for that.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>>>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that.
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a
new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft. >>>>>>>
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used >>>>>>> cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have
to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which
have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers. >>>>>>
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to
step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has >>>>>> different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind
USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end.
Actually, over time, manufacturers gravitated (w/o government pressure) >>>>
Manufacturers voluntarily standardised to *avoid* regulation. They signed >>>> an MoU saying as much.
Stranger to reality are you? The fact is the USB-C cable came out in
2012
I mean, if you're going to make shit up at least try it with something
harder to verify. USB-C was published in 2014
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
Yes, I made an error. Indeed I pushed out the correct dates in a post yesterday or so. Today my mind was on other things and I made a boo boo.
I beg your forgiveness.
The first smartphone with USB-C wasn't until 2015
https://www.stuff.tv/news/worlds-first-phone-usb-type-c-port-here-and-youve-probably-never-heard-it/
. Apple came out with Lightning in 2010. It had long legs and for
smartphones continues to do so. But now my Lightning cables will become >>> e-waste when I get a new iPhone with USB-C [I'll stipulate that by theApple could have started adopting it in 2016 like it did with their
time I get a new iPhone, iPhone would have already gone that way - EU
nonsense or not - but the same can't be said for my SO's phone coming
this fall]).
So I'll be forced to buy more USB-C cables (WASTE!) or adaptors (WASTE!). >>
laptops.
There was no _need_. And of course, by then people had Lightning cables
- so why force another flip after recently making a flip?
I mean, buying adaptors comes with the territory with Apple. I've always
had to buy adaptors for my Macs whether it's thunderbolt, mini-displayport, >> ethernet, USB, HDMI. This is nothing new.
Of course - but when it can be avoided, that is the best course.
The EU is now putting a lot of Lightning cables into the dump (or
forcing the manufacturing of adaptors).
https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/30/eu-lawmakers-take-fresh-aim-at-apples-lightning-connector-with-latest-e-waste-push/
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/11982/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/pdf
to chargers with a USB Type A output and Type A to micro-USB cable.
This across a very wide range of products covering cell phones and many >>>>> other classes of products.
All due to market forces: such chargers and cables became common and cheap.
No market forces involved. It was regulators leaning on them.
Where not needed. As usual. The USB-C standard was being picked up
manufacturer by manufacturer long before the EU got into the mob
pressure game.
Struggling to read are you? The MoU was drafted in 2009 and signed in 2011 >> significantly *before* USB-C came out. It required the use of micro-USB or >> USB-A which surprise, surprise is exactly what manufacturers did until
USB-C became more mainstream over the last 5 years or so.
Apple refusing to drop lightning forced the EC's hand.
Lightning introduced: 2012 by Apple
USB-C standard: 2014
USB-C in the wild: 2015. Note that Apple was one of the first to put
it on products. Just not iPhones yet.
Apple never refused to drop Lightning - they were on path for full USB-C
- inlcuding iPhone.
Just not for 2023. Because it was not (and is not) needed, nor
desirable. Even 2024 had a good chance of it being Lightning because
there is no especial need for an iPhone to use USB-C.
But the heavy hand of EU regulators ...
And of course, by the time USB-C is a "settled" thing, it will be
obsolete and a new thing will replace it.
On 2023-08-05, AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
Another important reason:-
Planned obsolescence: the phone's operating system software cannot
update anymore.
It effectively becomes just a wireless phone with
outdated software for other functions - forcing you buy a new one.
Doesn't happen with Android. Look it up. Android is like Windows. It
updates for ten and more years. Android 4.4 is still being updated.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-08-03 17:51, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 20:21:26 +0200, Hergen Lehmann
<hlehmann.expires.12-22@snafu.de> wrote:
Am 01.08.23 um 16:45 schrieb Peter:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:Although there might be no *NEED* to charge overnight, for many people >>>> this still is the most reasonable way to do it, because
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know >>>>>> many other people who do.
He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever
need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices. >>>>
- the phone will definitely not be in use at this time.
Not true for those of us who read Kindle books on their phone and who
read in bed.
Duh! It is not in use when you are sleeping, then.
Well, sometimes my phone *is* 'in use' when I'm sleeping (clue: what
you use your 'watch' for), but luckily this amazing technology allows us
the 'use' the phone *and* charge it at the same time. The wonders never
end! :-)
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 16:57:13 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-08-07 12:11, Mickey D wrote:
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 08:35:40 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:Malarkey. They write an annual report about environmental programs and
Not at all - Apple has invested greatly in environmental improvement
over the years and never stops.
Apple authors flowery ads about e-waste which nobody believes because
there's nothing that Apple says about e-waste that matches their actions. >>
actual results every year.
Maybe you should read what Apple does and not what Apple says they do.
Apple is upset that a Canadian recycling company reused iPhones and other devices, rather than "shredding" them to make people buy more instead. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:31, Chris wrote:
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist >>> for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
They will most certainly be around because small form factor Li-ion
batteries are needed in many, many places. I doubt Apple spec'd them -
they shopped them.
The market won't support them due to inviability. Just like it was before with mobile phone batteries.
I have Li-ion battery on a GPS receiver that is only a few mm across
(button form). It's to hold up the receiver RAM when there is no power.
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
Proven false. Though I'd agree that people will _want_ the latest
versions so the life of a given AirPod would be closer to 1 battery
cycle than many.
My SO's Airpods are now 3 years old with no sign of battery shortness -
and she uses them for about 2 hours in the morning and another hour in
the evening. Many days, she uses them more than that.
Only 27 more years to go.
It appears that Samsung (my phone's company) started using USB-C for
SOME models around 2016.
So if Apple changed ALL its models at ONE TIME
to USB-C while Samsung dragged it out for various models that might be a
fair point.
But didn't Apple also start by changing ports for SOME models?
However, it'll be a long time before that happens. USB-C hasn't displaced A in many, many places like hotels, conference centres, schools,
universities, etc.
Neil <neil00001@mylocation.com> wrote:
On 8/5/2023 9:55 AM, Chris wrote:
It it "the battery lasts the life of the phone" of "the phone lasts the >>>> life of the battery?"
Repairs are available.
It's not that they're "available" but that they're as easy to replace as
popping out and then popping in a brand new battery by the consumer.
Any company who touts their ewaste strategy that seals in batteries is not >> matching their caring environmentalist words to their callous actions.
Sure. Companies could certainly make it easier for consumers to change them >[1] but that's missing my point. It's silly to change a phone simply
because the battery is failing as they can be repaired for far less than
the cost of a new phone.
[1] I remember when phones did have consumer changeable batteries and
On 8/7/2023 6:42 PM, Chris wrote:
This brings up a good point since my desktop is probably as old as yours. >>> Like you, I upgrade cards, monitor, keyboard, mouse and drives over time. >>Is it the same machine, tho? ;)
It started as Windows 8 and went to Vista and then to Windows 10 (but it >won't run Windows 11 yet) so Microsoft thinks its the same machine.
I keep my desktop on my desk with the side cover off (to allow cooling) and >by looking at it, it's the same case, the same power supply, the same >motherboard and the same DVD drive & USB ports and RAM as the original.
What changed over time was the monitor, the keyboard, mouse, disk drive
(one failed) and I replaced the graphics card when someone gave me it.
Being able to pop out stuff to upgrade or repair it lowers e-waste overall.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
It appears that Samsung (my phone's company) started using USB-C
for SOME models around 2016.
and before that, samsung used micro-usb and mini-usb,
as did other manufacturers.
apple had two connectors for iphones (dock & lightning), while
samsung had at least three (mini, micro and usb-c), maybe four if
there was a micro-usb3, although that was plug-compatible with
micro-usb cables (without usb3 benefits).
I remember when phones didn't have batteries.
On 2023-08-05 16:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
...
Well, sometimes my phone *is* 'in use' when I'm sleeping (clue: what
you use your 'watch' for), but luckily this amazing technology allows us
the 'use' the phone *and* charge it at the same time. The wonders never
end! :-)
Well, my phone is running something while I sleep, but me, I am not
using it :-)
It runs a sleep monitor program.
On 2023-08-08 02:35, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:31, Chris wrote:
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist >>>> for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
They will most certainly be around because small form factor Li-ion
batteries are needed in many, many places. I doubt Apple spec'd them -
they shopped them.
The market won't support them due to inviability. Just like it was before
with mobile phone batteries.
Eh? The batts in AirPods are commodity - they'll be around for a long
time to support lots of different devices that need a small amount of
backup power.
I have Li-ion battery on a GPS receiver that is only a few mm across
(button form). It's to hold up the receiver RAM when there is no power. >>>
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
Proven false. Though I'd agree that people will _want_ the latest
versions so the life of a given AirPod would be closer to 1 battery
cycle than many.
My SO's Airpods are now 3 years old with no sign of battery shortness -
and she uses them for about 2 hours in the morning and another hour in
the evening. Many days, she uses them more than that.
Only 27 more years to go.
Doubt it. More like 10 for her use case.
PS: Just because someone keeps a pair of wired headphones for 30 years doesn't mean they're very good. If they were used a lot, they're
probably worn out and no longer close to original spec.
I have some from the early 80's that still work fine - but don't
consider them to be anywhere original sound quality.
And don't expect them to be anywhere close to more up to date designs at
all even if they were like new.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-08 02:35, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:31, Chris wrote:
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist
for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
They will most certainly be around because small form factor Li-ion
batteries are needed in many, many places. I doubt Apple spec'd them - >>>> they shopped them.
The market won't support them due to inviability. Just like it was before >>> with mobile phone batteries.
Eh? The batts in AirPods are commodity - they'll be around for a long
time to support lots of different devices that need a small amount of
backup power.
Shoddy chinese knock-offs. No thanks.
I have Li-ion battery on a GPS receiver that is only a few mm across
(button form). It's to hold up the receiver RAM when there is no power. >>>>
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
Proven false. Though I'd agree that people will _want_ the latest
versions so the life of a given AirPod would be closer to 1 battery
cycle than many.
My SO's Airpods are now 3 years old with no sign of battery shortness - >>>> and she uses them for about 2 hours in the morning and another hour in >>>> the evening. Many days, she uses them more than that.
Only 27 more years to go.
Doubt it. More like 10 for her use case.
PS: Just because someone keeps a pair of wired headphones for 30 years
doesn't mean they're very good. If they were used a lot, they're
probably worn out and no longer close to original spec.
I have some from the early 80's that still work fine - but don't
consider them to be anywhere original sound quality.
And don't expect them to be anywhere close to more up to date designs at
all even if they were like new.
That's the thing I'd be far more prepared to sink a few hundred quid on quality, wired headphones that will last rather than short lived wireless ones.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-08 02:35, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:31, Chris wrote:
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist
for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
They will most certainly be around because small form factor Li-ion
batteries are needed in many, many places. I doubt Apple spec'd them - >>>> they shopped them.
The market won't support them due to inviability. Just like it was before >>> with mobile phone batteries.
Eh? The batts in AirPods are commodity - they'll be around for a long
time to support lots of different devices that need a small amount of
backup power.
Shoddy chinese knock-offs. No thanks.
I have Li-ion battery on a GPS receiver that is only a few mm across
(button form). It's to hold up the receiver RAM when there is no power. >>>>
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
Proven false. Though I'd agree that people will _want_ the latest
versions so the life of a given AirPod would be closer to 1 battery
cycle than many.
My SO's Airpods are now 3 years old with no sign of battery shortness - >>>> and she uses them for about 2 hours in the morning and another hour in >>>> the evening. Many days, she uses them more than that.
Only 27 more years to go.
Doubt it. More like 10 for her use case.
PS: Just because someone keeps a pair of wired headphones for 30 years
doesn't mean they're very good. If they were used a lot, they're
probably worn out and no longer close to original spec.
I have some from the early 80's that still work fine - but don't
consider them to be anywhere original sound quality.
And don't expect them to be anywhere close to more up to date designs at
all even if they were like new.
That's the thing I'd be far more prepared to sink a few hundred quid on quality, wired headphones that will last rather than short lived wireless ones.
In article <uasnv0$39de6$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
However, it'll be a long time before that happens. USB-C hasn't displaced A >> in many, many places like hotels, conference centres, schools,
universities, etc.
which is why apple didn't switch everything to usb-c in 2015, as you
have said they should have done.
However, it'll be a long time before that happens. USB-C hasn't displaced A
in many, many places like hotels, conference centres, schools,
universities, etc.
which is why apple didn't switch everything to usb-c in 2015, as you
have said they should have done.
They were very quick with Macs which caused more problems as USB-A was ubiquitous in work environments making Macs less compatible.
You can't argue that Apple were right to be slow because of slow adoption
and also that it's pointless to regulate it now as it's going to be
obsolete soon.
On 2023-08-05 16:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-08-03 17:51, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 20:21:26 +0200, Hergen Lehmann
<hlehmann.expires.12-22@snafu.de> wrote:
Am 01.08.23 um 16:45 schrieb Peter:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know >>>>>> many other people who do.
He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever
need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices.
Although there might be no *NEED* to charge overnight, for many people >>>> this still is the most reasonable way to do it, because
- the phone will definitely not be in use at this time.
Not true for those of us who read Kindle books on their phone and who
read in bed.
Duh! It is not in use when you are sleeping, then.
Well, sometimes my phone *is* 'in use' when I'm sleeping (clue: what
you use your 'watch' for), but luckily this amazing technology allows us the 'use' the phone *and* charge it at the same time. The wonders never end! :-)
Well, my phone is running something while I sleep, but me, I am not
using it :-)
It runs a sleep monitor program.
On 2023-08-07 08:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used
cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which >> have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers. >>
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to >> step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind >> USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end. >>
The market cannot be trusted to do the best for anyone other than
themselves or their shareholders.
It's kind of funny that the Apple adepts nearly always justify Apple's decisions/action/features/etc. by pointing out that that's what fits the majority of users, never mind the needs/wants of a particular user.
Well, as an Apple user, I'm perfectly happy with Ligthning and that
extends to the iPhone my SO will get this fall and the one I'll get in a couple years. That way all the cables I currently have in my car, my
home, and my office just keep getting used w/o need to buy extra cables
or adaptors.
But in cases like this, when the needs/wants of the overwhelming majority goes against what Apple wants, they 'justify' Apple's stance
with their exception scenarios.
Again: Lightning came out 2 years before USB-C. And Apple were part of
the design group for USB-C.
They also seem to conveniently 'forget' that Apple is already using USB-C ports on iPads and that many - if not most/all - people/
households have both iPhones and iPads, so they do already have the
dreaded USB-C cables.
Again: You seem to ignore that Apple adopted the Lightning interface 2
years before USB-C was put out.
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out
there that are perfectly functional.
This EU decision will (as I've stated before) result in a pulse of
e-waste during a transition where people have to buy more USB-C cables
or adaptors because most people have 2 or 3 per phone (home, office, car
- for example).
As I implied before, I didn't/don't mind the switch from MicroUSB to USB-C on Android devices. Yes, it gave me more different cables and no,
I never had any problems with MicroUSB, but I'm all for standardization,
so I just swallow my little bit of the 'burden'/'waste', because standardization without initial 'waste' is impossible.
Proving my point - this a forced waste case on iPhone users - all due to
EU meddling.
On 8/7/2023 8:31 AM, Ankora wrote:
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the new
iPhones?
That's the coming thing so might as well get used to it. My recent
Chrome tablet purchase doesn't have a headphone hole. Neither does the
latest Amazon tablet (Max 11) though all earlier models did.
Most people have families. Most families have both types.
I can't remember the last time I saw anyone wearing a headphone wire
when out and about. Guess most folks are surviving...
Having to put two different cables in every place their phones were
used caused more e-waste.
I just use an adapter. No biggie. And then there's also Bluetooth...
adapters are not unique to apple.
any time there's a transition to something new or a variant due to size constraints (e.g., mini-displayport v. displayport), adapters are
needed.
if the eu wanted to be useful, they could address the various mains
plugs used worldwide so that travelers won't need to carry adapters for
their various electronics (not just computers and phones). and then
there's the issue of voltage and line frequency...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country#Identificati on_guide>
That's the thing I'd be far more prepared to sink a few hundred quid
on quality, wired headphones
On 8/8/2023 7:08 AM, nospam wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
It appears that Samsung (my phone's company) started using USB-C
for SOME models around 2016.
and before that, samsung used micro-usb and mini-usb,
Sounds reasonable. I'll take your word on it even without a cite.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 8/7/2023 8:31 AM, Ankora wrote:
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the
new iPhones?
That's the coming thing so might as well get used to it. My recent
Chrome tablet purchase doesn't have a headphone hole. Neither does
the latest Amazon tablet (Max 11) though all earlier models did.
Exactly. 'We' should get used to changes and 'we' have gotten used
to changes. But somehow for the Apple adepts, their are Good Changes
(TM) and Bad Changes (TM). If Apple makes the change, like with the
headphone port, it's of course a Good Change (TM). But if some other
entity/ entities make a change, like to a USB-C charging port, it
somehow magically becomes a Bad Change (TM). As I said before:
Hypocritical much!?
I just use an [headphone jack to USB-C] adapter. No biggie.
Indeed, no biggie. BUT, the adapter is an example of the dreaded
e-waste the Apple adepts are complaining about.
But for some strange reason, it's OK if the e-waste is included with
the phone, instead of having to be purchased separately.
Again: Hypocritical much!?
BTW, my phone has a TRS headphone port and a USB-C charging port.
Samsung must be doing that to pester the Apple adepts! :-)
It appears that Samsung (my phone's company) started using USB-C
for SOME models around 2016.
and before that, samsung used micro-usb and mini-usb,
Sounds reasonable. I'll take your word on it even without a cite.
I wouldn't, if I were you (or me).
His MO is to claim all kind of
things without any kind of proof. Note his attempt to weasel in a fourth
type of connector : "maybe four if there was a micro-usb3 ...".
But in cases like this, when the needs/wants of the overwhelming majority goes against what Apple wants, they 'justify' Apple's stance with their exception scenarios.
Again: Lightning came out 2 years before USB-C. And Apple were part of
the design group for USB-C.
Irrelevant. Lightning isn't a standard, USB-C is.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[...]
adapters are not unique to apple.
any time there's a transition to something new or a variant due to size
constraints (e.g., mini-displayport v. displayport), adapters are
needed.
if the eu wanted to be useful, they could address the various mains
plugs used worldwide so that travelers won't need to carry adapters for
their various electronics (not just computers and phones). and then
there's the issue of voltage and line frequency...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country#Identificati
on_guide>
Uhhh!? Exactly *which* part of "EU" didn't you understand!?
Clue-by-four: They already did what you say they should do. And guess what, 'even' Apple complied!
On 8/9/2023 7:06 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 8/7/2023 8:31 AM, Ankora wrote:
Did Apple remove standard wired headphone capability from the
new iPhones?
That's the coming thing so might as well get used to it. My recent
Chrome tablet purchase doesn't have a headphone hole. Neither does
the latest Amazon tablet (Max 11) though all earlier models did.
Exactly. 'We' should get used to changes and 'we' have gotten used
to changes. But somehow for the Apple adepts, their are Good Changes
(TM) and Bad Changes (TM). If Apple makes the change, like with the
headphone port, it's of course a Good Change (TM). But if some other
entity/ entities make a change, like to a USB-C charging port, it
somehow magically becomes a Bad Change (TM). As I said before:
Hypocritical much!?
I still have a backup iPhone in the drawer. I get it out every month or
so to charge and play with. I find using the Lightning plug on it easier
than using the USB-C port on my Samsung. But that's just me, YMMV...
I just use an [headphone jack to USB-C] adapter. No biggie.
Indeed, no biggie. BUT, the adapter is an example of the dreaded
e-waste the Apple adepts are complaining about.
I try to stay out of the Apple wars but they do make for interesting reading...
But for some strange reason, it's OK if the e-waste is included with
the phone, instead of having to be purchased separately.
At my local Target store chargers and cables are all available
separately one isle over from from the new phones that include them...
Again: Hypocritical much!?
Nah. I'm with the folks that think the free market should decide and the government stay out. But then I'm an investor that makes profits from
those hopefully less regulated and free to innovate companies.
BTW, my phone has a TRS headphone port and a USB-C charging port.
Samsung must be doing that to pester the Apple adepts! :-)
Yep. My Galaxy S10+ also has both a headphone hole and a USB-C port. And
both ports on mine give the same audio output...
BTW on that other (sour?) subject, I was having lunch yesterday at my
local Subway sandwich shop and a big sign by the cash register said "No
cash or EFT accepted"...
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I'm with the folks that think the free market should decide and the
government stay out.
It has nothing to do with free market or/and innovation. Over time,
things get standardized. The 'government' defines the AC plug/
receptacle.
Why shouldn't they define the DC one?
How many parallel-, serial-, VGA-, etc. ports do your devices have?
What? All USB and HDMI?
And the charger side is probably still USB-A.
Just the other day, a big part of our (NL) payment terminal ('PIN
apparaat' (PIN device)) system was down. Photos of long queues of
people standing in line to get cash from the ATMs to do their
shopping.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
But for some strange reason, it's OK if the e-waste is included with
the phone, instead of having to be purchased separately.
At my local Target store chargers and cables are all available
separately one isle over from from the new phones that include them...
Again: Hypocritical much!?
Nah. I'm with the folks that think the free market should decide and the
government stay out. But then I'm an investor that makes profits from
those hopefully less regulated and free to innovate companies.
It has nothing to do with free market or/and innovation. Over time,
things get standardized. The 'government' defines the AC plug/
receptacle. Why shouldn't they define the DC one? How many parallel-, serial-, VGA-, etc. ports do your devices have? What? All USB and HDMI?
Why?
We need smarter trolls. Back in my day a Usenet troll would not have expected the EU to dictate the whole world's electrical outlets.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 08:13, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 18:16, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05 09:42, Ankora wrote:
I laud the EU for making regulations that will drastically reduce ewaste.
If only they had done such.
The USB-C reg. will actually create a "pulse" of unwanted e-waste as >>>>>>> lightning cables that are still good fall in to disuse earlier than they
would have otherwise.
Is Apple going to update everyone's phones to USB-C? I hadn't read that. >>>>>>
Or is everyone still gonna use whatever they have until they change to a >>>>>> new phone over the next 1-6 years?
Which do you think is closer to reality?
Of course they're not changing existing connectors - don't be daft.
As I pointed out to Frank: for my current iPhone I have 3 often used >>>>> cables (all Lightning).
- home
- work
- car (shorty)
When I get a new iPhone (2 years from now perhaps) then I'll either have >>>>> to replace 2 of those or get adaptors for 2 of those.
More e-waste.
Different e-waste. I have two lightning to USB-C cables I don't use which >>>> have with recent iphone purchases as we have nothing but USB-A chargers. >>>>
Markets make much better decisions where such is concerned.
Laughably not true. Remember what it was like before the EU threatened to >>>> step in before? Every manufacturer and even the same manufacturer has
different chargers for different phones. The industry then aligned behind >>>> USB. Apple was different by choosing the charge end rather the device end. >>>>
The market cannot be trusted to do the best for anyone other than
themselves or their shareholders.
It's kind of funny that the Apple adepts nearly always justify Apple's >>> decisions/action/features/etc. by pointing out that that's what fits the >>> majority of users, never mind the needs/wants of a particular user.
Well, as an Apple user, I'm perfectly happy with Ligthning and that
extends to the iPhone my SO will get this fall and the one I'll get in a
couple years. That way all the cables I currently have in my car, my
home, and my office just keep getting used w/o need to buy extra cables
or adaptors.
The point - which you either conveniently ignore or which in some mysterious way escapes you - is that standardization is not about the
needs of a particular individual, but about the needs of the majority of users, i.e. exactly she stance that the Apple adepts are touting at each
and every opportunity. But now the foot is on the other shoe, they
change their tune. Hypocritical much?
But in cases like this, when the needs/wants of the overwhelming
majority goes against what Apple wants, they 'justify' Apple's stance
with their exception scenarios.
Again: Lightning came out 2 years before USB-C. And Apple were part of
the design group for USB-C.
Irrelevant. Lightning isn't a standard, USB-C is.
They also seem to conveniently 'forget' that Apple is already using
USB-C ports on iPads and that many - if not most/all - people/
households have both iPhones and iPads, so they do already have the
dreaded USB-C cables.
Again: You seem to ignore that Apple adopted the Lightning interface 2
years before USB-C was put out.
Yes, I tend to ignore irrelevant non-arguments.
Again: Foot-stamping doesn't make a valid argument.
You don't force a connection type onto a product that doesn't need it
when its own product history of 10 years has been using its established
cable/connectors and there are literally billions of these cables out
there that are perfectly functional.
Standardization always forces a change on something/someone. Welcome
to the real world.
If not, where are the parallel-, serial-, VGA-, etc. ports on my
devices? Bloody USB! Bloodt HDMI! Bloody ....
This EU decision will (as I've stated before) result in a pulse of
e-waste during a transition where people have to buy more USB-C cables
or adaptors because most people have 2 or 3 per phone (home, office, car
- for example).
As I implied before, I didn't/don't mind the switch from MicroUSB to >>> USB-C on Android devices. Yes, it gave me more different cables and no,
I never had any problems with MicroUSB, but I'm all for standardization, >>> so I just swallow my little bit of the 'burden'/'waste', because
standardization without initial 'waste' is impossible.
Proving my point - this a forced waste case on iPhone users - all due to
EU meddling.
No, the thing is called 'standardization'. This time the EU is forcing this one, at other times other entities forced other standards.
Example horror story: These bloody Europeans forced their wicked AC
power plugs on poor Apple! The audacity! What's wrong with the flimsy, dangerous US ones!?
In article <ub0cs4.2l8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
But in cases like this, when the needs/wants of the overwhelming
majority goes against what Apple wants, they 'justify' Apple's stance
with their exception scenarios.
Again: Lightning came out 2 years before USB-C. And Apple were part of
the design group for USB-C.
Irrelevant. Lightning isn't a standard, USB-C is.
lightning absolutely is a standard, with a spec and compliance
requirements, along with a couple of billion devices using it.
On 8/9/2023 9:48 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I'm with the folks that think the free market should decide and the
government stay out.
It has nothing to do with free market or/and innovation. Over time,
things get standardized. The 'government' defines the AC plug/
receptacle.
Things change over time with or without government interference.
Why shouldn't they define the DC one?
I would let the market decide. Far as I know there's no rule here yet
and many devices are going to all USB-C on their own (like my laptop below).
And the charger side is probably still USB-A.
Yep. More e-waste. I've used only a wireless charger on my phone for
years...
As to "flimsy dangerous US" AC plugs, I've never had an issue nor do
I know anyone who has.
it's really annoying to get zapped by 120AC, but it won't kill you
unless the circuit runs through your heart.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 8/9/2023 9:48 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I'm with the folks that think the free market should decide and the
government stay out.
It has nothing to do with free market or/and innovation. Over time,
things get standardized. The 'government' defines the AC plug/
receptacle.
Things change over time with or without government interference.
Why shouldn't they define the DC one?
I would let the market decide. Far as I know there's no rule here yet
and many devices are going to all USB-C on their own (like my laptop below).
The changes were not done by the market on their own, but with
pressure from the EU (and others). But Apple wouldn't budge, so the
pressure was upped and (IIUC, large thread) the USB-C charging port *is*
now a EU mandate.
[...]
And the charger side is probably still USB-A.
Yep. More e-waste. I've used only a wireless charger on my phone for
years...
What I meant is the charger side can be USB-A (probably still the majority) or USB-C. Yet another can of worms! :-) c.q. :-(
I would let the market decide. Far as I know there's no rule here yet
and many devices are going to all USB-C on their own (like my laptop below).
The changes were not done by the market on their own, but with
pressure from the EU (and others). But Apple wouldn't budge, so the
pressure was upped and (IIUC, large thread) the USB-C charging port *is*
now a EU mandate.
Doesn't happen with Android. Look it up. Android is like Windows. It
updates for ten and more years. Android 4.4 is still being updated.
No, this is not true.
I have phones and tablets with old Android versions, and no, they are
not updated. What are updated are *some* of the apps, but the system
itself is not updated. Or its security patches.
That's the thing I'd be far more prepared to sink a few hundred quid
on quality, wired headphones
The nice thing about getting old is I can't tell the difference between expensive and cheap headphones. My US$10 wired earbuds are several years
old now and sound as good as the day I got them... ;)
Apple is upset that a Canadian recycling company reused iPhones and other
devices, rather than "shredding" them to make people buy more instead.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/
You're taking the word "shred" too literally.
From one of your articles: "Recyclers here rely on expensive shredders
and other advanced technology to isolate the wires from the rest of the materials. Even when recycling is done on a simple scale, it results in
some loss of metal."
Not your grandfather's shredder.
30 years is a long time in technology.
Not only that, but you actually think a cellphone without the jack is
somehow more capable than a cellphone with the jack. It's not.
It's less capable.
Much less capable.
On 2023-08-09 12:44, sms wrote:
We need smarter trolls. Back in my day a Usenet troll would not have
expected the EU to dictate the whole world's electrical outlets.
But it's okay for the EU to dictate USB-C connections for smartphones.
I'd say sms has a card missing from his deck ... more than 1 ...
On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:11:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Apple is upset that a Canadian recycling company reused iPhones and other >>> devices, rather than "shredding" them to make people buy more instead.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/
You're taking the word "shred" too literally.
From one of your articles: "Recyclers here rely on expensive shredders
and other advanced technology to isolate the wires from the rest of the
materials. Even when recycling is done on a simple scale, it results in
some loss of metal."
Not your grandfather's shredder.
I think you missed the point that Apple wanted a huge number of perfectly good iPhones "shredded" (i.e., no longer a working iPhone), but their recycler tested these iPhones and found them to be in good working order.
Apple insisted they shred the perfectly good iPhones. Hundreds of thousands of them. The recycler tested them and sold them as perfectly good iPhones.
Apple was mad they sold these perfectly good iPhones (presumably with a warranty) instead of shredding them to take them off the market.
Do you see where Apple's sweet words don't match Apple's actual actions?
What Apple's lawsuit said was the recycler broke their contract with Apple because Apple wanted even those perfectly good iPhones shredded.
I'm sure Apple has a legal case (depending on the wording of the contract).
But the shredder also had a point (on e-waste) that to shred hundreds of thousands of perfectly good iPhones contributes to more e-waste.
Apple wanted those hundreds of thousands of perfectly good iPhones taken
off the market - even though there is no evidence they had anything wrong with them (which came up in the depositions during the lawsuit
proceedings).
If you read the news you'd know this as it's well publicized what happened. As often with Apple, their sweet words don't match up with what Apple does.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-09 12:44, sms wrote:
We need smarter trolls. Back in my day a Usenet troll would not have
expected the EU to dictate the whole world's electrical outlets.
But it's okay for the EU to dictate USB-C connections for smartphones.
Of course. Any regulator can dictate what goes on in its own market.
On Tue, 8 Aug 2023 08:11:07 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
Apple is upset that a Canadian recycling company reused iPhones and other >>> devices, rather than "shredding" them to make people buy more instead.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/
You're taking the word "shred" too literally.
From one of your articles: "Recyclers here rely on expensive shredders
and other advanced technology to isolate the wires from the rest of the
materials. Even when recycling is done on a simple scale, it results in
some loss of metal."
Not your grandfather's shredder.
I think you missed the point that Apple wanted a huge number of perfectly good iPhones "shredded" (i.e., no longer a working iPhone), but their recycler tested these iPhones and found them to be in good working order.
Apple insisted they shred the perfectly good iPhones. Hundreds of thousands of them. The recycler tested them and sold them as perfectly good iPhones.
Apple was mad they sold these perfectly good iPhones (presumably with a warranty) instead of shredding them to take them off the market.
Do you see where Apple's sweet words don't match Apple's actual actions?
What Apple's lawsuit said was the recycler broke their contract with Apple because Apple wanted even those perfectly good iPhones shredded.
I'm sure Apple has a legal case (depending on the wording of the contract).
But the shredder also had a point (on e-waste) that to shred hundreds of thousands of perfectly good iPhones contributes to more e-waste.
Apple wanted those hundreds of thousands of perfectly good iPhones taken
off the market - even though there is no evidence they had anything wrong with them (which came up in the depositions during the lawsuit
proceedings).
If you read the news you'd know this as it's well publicized what happened. As often with Apple, their sweet words don't match up with what Apple does.
On 2023-08-08 13:29, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-08 02:35, Chris wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-07 18:31, Chris wrote:
Come back in 10 years - 5 even - and see if 1) replacement batteries exist
for Airpods, 2) anyone is bothering to replace them.
They will most certainly be around because small form factor Li-ion
batteries are needed in many, many places. I doubt Apple spec'd them - >>>>> they shopped them.
The market won't support them due to inviability. Just like it was before >>>> with mobile phone batteries.
Eh? The batts in AirPods are commodity - they'll be around for a long
time to support lots of different devices that need a small amount of
backup power.
Shoddy chinese knock-offs. No thanks.
Where do you think the batteries come from now?
I have Li-ion battery on a GPS receiver that is only a few mm across >>>>> (button form). It's to hold up the receiver RAM when there is no power. >>>>>
Earbuds are designed to be disposable not for longevity.
Proven false. Though I'd agree that people will _want_ the latest
versions so the life of a given AirPod would be closer to 1 battery
cycle than many.
My SO's Airpods are now 3 years old with no sign of battery shortness - >>>>> and she uses them for about 2 hours in the morning and another hour in >>>>> the evening. Many days, she uses them more than that.
Only 27 more years to go.
Doubt it. More like 10 for her use case.
PS: Just because someone keeps a pair of wired headphones for 30 years
doesn't mean they're very good. If they were used a lot, they're
probably worn out and no longer close to original spec.
I have some from the early 80's that still work fine - but don't
consider them to be anywhere original sound quality.
And don't expect them to be anywhere close to more up to date designs at >>> all even if they were like new.
That's the thing I'd be far more prepared to sink a few hundred quid on
quality, wired headphones that will last rather than short lived wireless
ones.
I'm calling you out.
Which wired headphones have you had for 30 years?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Which wired headphones have you had for 30 years?
A couple. I've got some sony wired earbuds from an old walkman, which I
also still have somewhere, and a pair of Aiwa overears. I didn't pay
hundreds in those as I didn't have that amount of disposable income, but I would now if it was worth it.
In message <ub36k6$enon$1@dont-email.me>
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Which wired headphones have you had for 30 years?
A couple. I've got some sony wired earbuds from an old walkman, which I
also still have somewhere, and a pair of Aiwa overears. I didn't pay
hundreds in those as I didn't have that amount of disposable income, but I >> would now if it was worth it.
Is the foam in those over-ears still OK? All the comparable things
that I've had, the foam collapsed to a black dust.
David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
In message <ub36k6$enon$1@dont-email.me>
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Which wired headphones have you had for 30 years?
A couple. I've got some sony wired earbuds from an old walkman, which I
also still have somewhere, and a pair of Aiwa overears. I didn't pay
hundreds in those as I didn't have that amount of disposable income, but I >>> would now if it was worth it.
Is the foam in those over-ears still OK? All the comparable things
that I've had, the foam collapsed to a black dust.
Yeah, pretty much gone.
In message <ub36k6$enon$1@dont-email.me>
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
Which wired headphones have you had for 30 years?
A couple. I've got some sony wired earbuds from an old walkman, which I
also still have somewhere, and a pair of Aiwa overears. I didn't pay
hundreds in those as I didn't have that amount of disposable income, but I >> would now if it was worth it.
Is the foam in those over-ears still OK? All the comparable things
that I've had, the foam collapsed to a black dust.
David
Apple was mad they sold these perfectly good iPhones (presumably with a
warranty) instead of shredding them to take them off the market.
I got the point. As a consumer I'm not pleased with that - but I'd
caution everyone that what one reads in the press is probably not giving
you the entire story.
Apple make business decisons. Oh - the horror!
At this point you then have to measure their "bad" environmental actions above and quantify it against their good environmental actions overall.
I suspect the latter is much larger than the former.
Yeah - it's a good thing that comparable flagship phones from Samsung,
like the Galaxy S3 Ultra have the TRRS port.
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 15:27:10 -0400, Neil <neil00001@mylocation.com>
wrote:
On 8/7/2023 6:42 PM, Chris wrote:
This brings up a good point since my desktop is probably as old as yours. >>>> Like you, I upgrade cards, monitor, keyboard, mouse and drives over time. >>>Is it the same machine, tho? ;)
It started as Windows 8 and went to Vista and then to Windows 10 (but it
won't run Windows 11 yet) so Microsoft thinks its the same machine.
I keep my desktop on my desk with the side cover off (to allow cooling) and >> by looking at it, it's the same case, the same power supply, the same
motherboard and the same DVD drive & USB ports and RAM as the original.
What changed over time was the monitor, the keyboard, mouse, disk drive
(one failed) and I replaced the graphics card when someone gave me it.
The monitor. keyboard, and mouse are all external to the computer, so therefore not part of it. The graphics card and disk drive are
internal, so are part of it.
But what constitutes "the computer" and therefore changing it makes it
a different computer? Different people would have different answers.
The motherboard? The CPU? RAM? Disk drives? Anything inside the case?
A screw? The case itself?
My current computer has all new components except for one of the disk
drives. Does that make it a new computer or is it still the old one?
My view is that it doesn't matter. Call it a different computer or
call it the same one. I don't care.
On 10/8/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
Yeah - it's a good thing that comparable flagship phones from Samsung,
like the Galaxy S3 Ultra have the TRRS port.
You don't seem to understand that a phone without the jack is less functional, and worse, as a result, most Android phones have the jack.So why doesn't the Samsung Galaxy flagship have the port?
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
[All deleted.]
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now only more misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so there's no point continuing.
You've said your bit. I/we have said my/our bit. All these bits don't matter at all, because they're mostly opinion (not fact) and the EUR
mandate is not going to change because of what you/I/we think/say.
Have a nice day.
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed Lightning/ USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from them! :-)
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now only more
misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so there's no point >continuing.
You've said your bit. I/we have said my/our bit. All these bits don't
matter at all, because they're mostly opinion (not fact) and the EUR
mandate is not going to change because of what you/I/we think/say.
Have a nice day.
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed Lightning/
USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from them! :-)
On 8/11/23 2:27 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now only more
misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so there's no point >continuing.
Better than a dead group IMO...
You've said your bit. I/we have said my/our bit. All these bits don't
matter at all, because they're mostly opinion (not fact) and the EUR >mandate is not going to change because of what you/I/we think/say.
The world seldom changes for anyone's remarks. Doesn't make them
uninteresting..
Have a nice day.
Thanks. Oh wait, was that sarcasm?
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed Lightning/
USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from them! :-)
The wife's iStuff is mixed (watch,phone,tablet) so "peep". No problem for
her since 2 are wireless charged and the iPad is USB-C. I still am struck
by the Lightning connector on my spare though. Struck by lightning...get
it?
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 8/11/23 2:27 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now only
more misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so there's
no point continuing.
Better than a dead group IMO...
True, but the group is *FAR* from dead, isn't it!? :-)
After these many exchanges, I think things could only get worse. As
I said, more misunderstandings, errors, etc. were popping up, so
trying to get those out of the way would likely only lead to aggro,
instead of understanding. IMO, that's not in anybody's interest.
That's why I called it quits.
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed
Lightning/ USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from
them! :-)
Actually it turned out I 'lied'. Their newest iPad was still
Lightning. But I'm off the hook, because they had a Chromebook which
... ding, ding ... was USB-C! :-)
On 8/8/23 3:20 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-08-05 16:42, Frank Slootweg wrote:
...
Well, sometimes my phone *is* 'in use' when I'm sleeping (clue: what >>> you use your 'watch' for), but luckily this amazing technology allows us >>> the 'use' the phone *and* charge it at the same time. The wonders never
end! :-)
Well, my phone is running something while I sleep, but me, I am not
using it :-)
It runs a sleep monitor program.
I ran one of those for over a year. It apparently listened to me
snoring or breathing or something. I had to keep the phone plugged in
all night, which might have led to its battery failure. Plus it wasn't
all that good -- it picked up my husband's snoring too, and I don't see
how it's possible to avoid that.
The BIP smartwatch dumps stuff to my phone by bluetooth when I ask it
to, but it seems no more accurate than the sleep-monitor app. As a
heartrate monitor it's not very good; it doesn't poll often enough and doesn't seem to EVER hit what I know to be a higher number than
recorded. The step counter is probably OK, but there's no way to set
your stride length. Could be worse.
Actually it turned out I 'lied'. Their newest iPad was still
Lightning. But I'm off the hook, because they had a Chromebook which ... ding, ding ... was USB-C! :-)
On 8/11/2023 8:44 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 8/11/23 2:27 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now only
more misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so there's
no point continuing.
Better than a dead group IMO...
True, but the group is *FAR* from dead, isn't it!? :-)
When cross-posted. But I usually only monitor one group and it is
sometimes (somewhat?) dead...
After these many exchanges, I think things could only get worse. As
I said, more misunderstandings, errors, etc. were popping up, so
trying to get those out of the way would likely only lead to aggro,
instead of understanding. IMO, that's not in anybody's interest.
That's why I called it quits.
I do the same only I just disappear...
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed
Lightning/ USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from
them! :-)
Actually it turned out I 'lied'. Their newest iPad was still
Lightning. But I'm off the hook, because they had a Chromebook which
... ding, ding ... was USB-C! :-)
I have 3 Chromebooks. 2 have both USB-A and USB-C and (gasp) an earphone hole. The 3rd has USB-C only. They call it a Chromebook because it has a snap-on keyboard but it's really a tablet...
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now
only more misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so
there's no point continuing.
Better than a dead group IMO...
True, but the group is *FAR* from dead, isn't it!? :-)
When cross-posted. But I usually only monitor one group and it is
sometimes (somewhat?) dead...
This thread is not cross-posted
I just disappear...
Yes, I do that sometimes, especially when there's just no point even
trying to discuss things. I either don't respond at all or just give
one or two 'slaps'.
My 'new' (one year old) HP laptop also has (two) USB-A and (one)
USB-C ports, but the charging 'port' is still old style cylindrical.
On 2023-08-11 05:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
[All deleted.]
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now only more
misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so there's no point
continuing.
Please present your part NF-EU-104c credentials as moderator and prove
your authority by challenge/response using the app (that you should know about) V 3.3 or higher on Mac, v4.7 or higher on Windows, v.3.3a on Linux.
Authentication challenge: Zebra-Six-Four
You've said your bit. I/we have said my/our bit. All these bits don't
matter at all, because they're mostly opinion (not fact) and the EUR
mandate is not going to change because of what you/I/we think/say.
Indeed - but do comply with the moderator authentication above or you
will be reported to the EU net abuser committee 42.7.
Have a nice day.
98% guaranteed - should be able to have a nice fire outside tonight -
it's been so rainy this year.
You too.
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed Lightning/
USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from them! :-)
Most people are oblivious to the consequences of bad EU regulations.
On 8/11/2023 10:53 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
This 'discussion' has gone completely off the rails and now
only more misunderstandings, errors, etc. are popping up, so
there's no point continuing.
Better than a dead group IMO...
True, but the group is *FAR* from dead, isn't it!? :-)
Some days it seems slow to me. YMMV...
When cross-posted. But I usually only monitor one group and it is
sometimes (somewhat?) dead...
This thread is not cross-posted
Parts of this thread have been cross-posted to the iPhone group. For
example on 8-9-23 at 6:54AM (by my reader) you made such a cross-post to
this thread...
I just disappear...
Yes, I do that sometimes, especially when there's just no point even
trying to discuss things. I either don't respond at all or just give
one or two 'slaps'.
I also get a chuckle out of the "I'm gonna plonk you" posts. Easier just ignore the offenders posts. But apparently more fun to broadcast it...
My 'new' (one year old) HP laptop also has (two) USB-A and (one)
USB-C ports, but the charging 'port' is still old style cylindrical.
Though this laptop I'm posting with has a barrel style charging port, it
also charges using one of its USB-C ports. Handy because that way I only
have to leave one charger out for MOST of my toys...
Though this laptop I'm posting with has a barrel style charging
port, it also charges using one of its USB-C ports.
AFAICT from the documentation (especially the explanation of the markings/symbols/icons next to the port), the USB-C port of my laptop
can be used to charge *other* devices, even when the laptop is off,
but can not be used to charge the laptop itself. Bit of a bummer,
because I do not really need the former, but would like the latter.
Oh well, this laptop was bought in a hurry because the old one was
mostly dead, so I guess I'm excused for not doing a thorough enough investigation! :-)
What pisses you off is that Apple are generally the leader in discarding
what is dragging the industry behind.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-11 05:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:
P.S. I'm about to visit another Apple household with mixed Lightning/
USB-C devices. Have yet to hear the first peep from them! :-)
Most people are oblivious to the consequences of bad EU regulations.
Also the good ones, and then they vote for brexit. smh
On 11/8/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
What pisses you off is that Apple are generally the leader in discarding
what is dragging the industry behind.
What does a phone without the jack do that a phone with the jack can't do?
On 8/11/2023 12:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Though this laptop I'm posting with has a barrel style charging
port, it also charges using one of its USB-C ports.
AFAICT from the documentation (especially the explanation of the markings/symbols/icons next to the port), the USB-C port of my laptop
can be used to charge *other* devices, even when the laptop is off,
Mine does that too. When my power was off for almost a day some years
back I came close to needing that capability.
but can not be used to charge the laptop itself. Bit of a bummer,
because I do not really need the former, but would like the latter.
Have you tried it? It may in fact have that capability. The W11 battery
icon will tell you if it's working. On some of my chargers I get a
warning that it was slow charging. So I went through my bag until I
found one that made it happy...
Oh well, this laptop was bought in a hurry because the old one was
mostly dead, so I guess I'm excused for not doing a thorough enough investigation! :-)
One of my 3 W11 laptops REQUIRES that I use its barrel port charger so I kinda feel your pain...
BTW don't get fiber if you have a choice. They installed it on my street yesterday and cut my water line in the process. No water for 6 hours. So
I skipped my shower. Smell anything?
So I connected the USB (A-to-C) charger of my (Samsung Galaxy A51)
phone, but that did not work (battery icon shows not charging). Probably
not enough power (only 2.0A (at 5V)) or/and not high enough voltage (can
do 9.0V at 1.67A to the phone, but don't know if that mechanism is Power Delivery compliant).
I have no USB chargers with higher power/voltage, so this will have to
wait until I have/get/buy one.
What pisses you off is that Apple are generally the leader in discarding >>> what is dragging the industry behind.
What does a phone without the jack do that a phone with the jack can't do?
Whatever it can do - including playing audio to my lightning headphones
or wireless earphones. If you're desperate to use a TR(R)S connectored headset, there are adaptors for that.
On 12/8/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
What pisses you off is that Apple are generally the leader in
discarding what is dragging the industry behind.
What does a phone without the jack do that a phone with the jack
can't do?
Whatever it can do - including playing audio to my lightning
headphones or wireless earphones. If you're desperate to use a
TR(R)S connectored headset, there are adaptors for that.
In other words, the only way the iPhone without the jack can do what
the phone with the jack can do is by adding an adaptor to allow it to
do it.
Meaning, the only thing improved by removing the jack was Apple
profits.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
Have you tried it [USB-C charging]? It [your laptop] may in fact
have that capability.
No, I haven't tried it. Thought it's a bit risky to (try to) feed
power into a port which is intended to supply power.
So I connected the USB (A-to-C) charger of my (Samsung Galaxy A51)
phone, but that did not work (battery icon shows not charging).
Probably not enough power (only 2.0A (at 5V)) or/and not high enough
voltage (can do 9.0V at 1.67A to the phone, but don't know if that
mechanism is Power Delivery compliant).
I have no USB chargers with higher power/voltage, so this will have
to wait until I have/get/buy one.
They've installed fibre in our street and will run connections up the
floors of our appartment building 'soon'.
I will only switch if I need/have to. We've been using 'cable' (HFC,
Hybrid Fibre Coaxial) since 2003 and have been quite happy with it,
Started at 300/64 *K*bps and now have 100/20 *M*bps, which is the
*lowest* speed we can get.
On 12/8/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
Whatever it can do - including playing audio to my lightning headphonesWhat pisses you off is that Apple are generally the leader in discarding >>>> what is dragging the industry behind.
What does a phone without the jack do that a phone with the jack can't do? >>
or wireless earphones. If you're desperate to use a TR(R)S connectored
headset, there are adaptors for that.
In other words, the only way the iPhone without the jack can do what the phone with the jack can do is by adding an adaptor to allow it to do it.
Meaning, the only thing improved by removing the jack was Apple profits.
On 8/12/2023 12:27 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Update:
I have a USB power meter so I inserted that in the cable from the
USB charger to the laptop's USB-C port. It shortly seemed to draw
current (about 2A, i.e. the capacity of the charger}, but then none.
I then put the laptop into Sleep mode and lo and behold, again about
2A current draw *and* the charging light near the barrel connector
(for the normal 19V charger) lit up! So this proves that it *is* a
port for charging the laptop, but that my current :-) USB charger is
just not powerful enough.
My found in the bag USB-C charger keeps this laptop topped up even when
being used. And if the battery is low when turned on will bring it to
full charge while being used. Some of the other chargers I tried would
turn on the charging light but the battery icon gave a low charge
indication.
Perhaps it will be of no help to you but here is what my found in the
bag USB-C charger says:
Type-C Power Adapter, Output 5V@3A, 9V@3A, 12v@3A, 15@3A, 20V@2.25A, 45W
It's feeding this Acer 13.5" SP513-54N 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
The barrel charger that came with the LT is 19V@3.42A, 65W
So there appears to be quite a mismatch, but yet it works and has been
for quite awhile...
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
Perhaps it will be of no help to you but here is what my found in the
bag USB-C charger says:
Type-C Power Adapter, Output 5V@3A, 9V@3A, 12v@3A, 15@3A, 20V@2.25A, 45W
It's feeding this Acer 13.5" SP513-54N 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD
The barrel charger that came with the LT is 19V@3.42A, 65W
So there appears to be quite a mismatch, but yet it works and has been
for quite awhile...
Thanks for the specs, they are very helpful!
I don't know if/how a laptop switches between the different voltages,
but it probably tries to use the 20V mode, which is close to that of
your barrel charger (19V) and quite common for laptops (mine is 19.5V).
45W should be plenty to charge it, especially having a SSD. 65W would
only be needed for fast-charging or heavy CPU/GPU usage.
My laptop is
similar, only 15.6", and has a 45W barrel charger.
For now, I'll ('have' to) keep using my barrel charger. But if I get
tired of it - the AC cable is quite thick/bulky (rugged/safe EU plugs
and all that! :-)) - or/and it breaks, I'll be on the lookout for a
suitable USB-C charger.
Anyway, I wouldn't want to annoy our Apple friends by adding more
e-waste, especially not by buying something with/for that dreaded USB-C >plug/socket!
On 8/13/23 2:38 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
For now, I'll ('have' to) keep using my barrel charger. But if I get
tired of it - the AC cable is quite thick/bulky (rugged/safe EU plugs
and all that! :-)) - or/and it breaks, I'll be on the lookout for a >suitable USB-C charger.
^MGood luck...
Anyway, I wouldn't want to annoy our Apple friends by adding more
e-waste, especially not by buying something with/for that dreaded USB-C >plug/socket!
I normally edit out any Apple baiting but this Android newsreader has a bug
(feature?) in that it won't crosspost. So they'll have to come here to see
it... ;)
Not at all - as previously pointed out to you at some point by others
and possibly myself the absence of that port means more volume in the
phone for other things (function and or battery).
And of course - as you keep snipping out - Samsung copied Apple (Samsung often copies Apple) in this respect on their phones like the Galaxy S23.
Face it - all you've got is something to whine about - and the "whine to something" ratio is pretty high.
On 13/8/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
Not at all - as previously pointed out to you at some point by others
and possibly myself the absence of that port means more volume in the
phone for other things (function and or battery).
I agree fully with you that removing important hardware functionality
ALWAYS makes it easier for the manufacturer (and increases their profits).
And of course - as you keep snipping out - Samsung copied Apple (Samsung
often copies Apple) in this respect on their phones like the Galaxy S23.
Nobody doubts that Samsung copied Apple's lucrative strategy of removing critical hardware functionality, which not only increases their profits
(because you have to scramble to buy it back) but, as you astutely noted, making the phone less functional makes it much easier to manufacture.
Face it - all you've got is something to whine about - and the "whine to
something" ratio is pretty high.
If you think every truth about Apple is "whining", then that says a lot of what you think about Apple's core marketing and design strategy of removing key functionality so that you're forced to figure out a way to get it back.
I agree fully with you that removing important hardware functionality
ALWAYS makes it easier for the manufacturer (and increases their profits).
They did not remove functionality - they combined it into another port
that must be there. Efficiency in all respects.
And of course - as you keep snipping out - Samsung copied Apple (Samsung >>> often copies Apple) in this respect on their phones like the Galaxy S23.
Nobody doubts that Samsung copied Apple's lucrative strategy of removing
critical hardware functionality, which not only increases their profits
First off (as noted above) the functionality was not removed. It was combined into another port.
Further, it is not "critical".
(because you have to scramble to buy it back) but, as you astutely noted,
making the phone less functional makes it much easier to manufacture.
How is it less functional if the function (audio output) remains?
I was
using my wired headphones with my iPhone not 30 minutes ago. Function
was fine.
Face it - all you've got is something to whine about - and the "whine to >>> something" ratio is pretty high.
If you think every truth about Apple is "whining", then that says a lot of >> what you think about Apple's core marketing and design strategy of removing >> key functionality so that you're forced to figure out a way to get it back.
Wow - you're really stuck on this notion that the function was removed.
As above, it was not.
Calling it "key functionality" is little less desperate than "critical hardware" so kudos ... you're on a path to sanity. This path to sanity
is long. Hard. You'll be tempted to abandon it. Don't.
On 19/8/2023, Alan Browne wrote:
I agree fully with you that removing important hardware functionalityThey did not remove functionality - they combined it into another port
ALWAYS makes it easier for the manufacturer (and increases their profits). >>
that must be there. Efficiency in all respects.
Only a true convert to the Apple religion would think that by completely
and suddenly "courageously" removing the capability to plug existing wired headphones into the 3.5mm port is NOT removing functionality.
First off (as noted above) the functionality was not removed. It was
combined into another port.
Remember, a phone without the port is less functional than a phone with it.
Further, it is not "critical".
It's a standard basic and rather venerable functionality that is so
critical that it's on most phones today and far into the future it will be.
If you don't understand that you have to purchase another component in
order to use the venerable standard wired headphones, then you're a
religious fanatic who has lost any & all semblance of logical thinking.
I was
using my wired headphones with my iPhone not 30 minutes ago. Function
was fine.
Only a religious fanatic can't see that there is no longer a 3.5mm port
such that you are forced to find another way to plug the wired headphones into the phone.
Wow - you're really stuck on this notion that the function was removed.Face it - all you've got is something to whine about - and the "whine to >>>> something" ratio is pretty high.
If you think every truth about Apple is "whining", then that says a lot of >>> what you think about Apple's core marketing and design strategy of removing >>> key functionality so that you're forced to figure out a way to get it back. >>
As above, it was not.
If you think the removal of the standard 3.5mm port isn't removal of the standard 3.5mm port, then you're a religious fanatic because you can't see
what everyone else sees - which is the port is missing and therefore, to
plug in a wired headphone, you have to figure out another way to do it.
Calling it "key functionality" is little less desperate than "critical
hardware" so kudos ... you're on a path to sanity. This path to sanity
is long. Hard. You'll be tempted to abandon it. Don't.
Your religious claims may work with the likes of nospam and Jolly Roger,
but any sensible person can see instantly that removal of the port
instantly makes the phone less functional (and Apple's profits higher).
The reason is you have to figure out another way to do what you use to do. Which is exactly why Apple did it - as they made a billion or so on this.
Apple's core strategy has always been to remove critical functionality to reduce your choices when you are forced to buy back the core functionality that Apple "courageously" removed (which was removed for profit alone).
Only an idiot confuses function with connection type
Same on Samsung Galaxy phones like the S23.
I don't care if you don't like the answers and nobody really cares about
your foolish crusade.
You like to bash Apple - but of course the others followed Apple's
example ...
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