EU Approves New Regulations That Require Apple, Samsung And Countless
Others To Offer ¡Easy to Replace¢ Batteries
Well, it's not quite final yet is it?
What was so difficult to understand?
Then if it's final, you'll be able to quote the EC regulation number?
Well, it's not quite final yet is it?
Just another stage of the ballet between the Parliament, Commission,
Council and Presidency ... I expect it will eventually become a
resolution and get signed into individual country laws (not the UK obviously!) but some proposals such as whether to abandon summertime
clock changes, get to this point and then stall for years ...
that's the writer at the website, some "Omar Sohail".
But I highly suspect it is true
On 2023-07-23 12:59, Andy Burns wrote:
Jörg Lorenz wrote:
schrieb Andy Burns:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
EU Approves New Regulations That Require Apple, Samsung And Countless >>>>> Others To Offer ‘Easy to Replace’ Batteries
Well, it's not quite final yet is it?
What was so difficult to understand?
Then if it's final, you'll be able to quote the EC regulation number?
You have the official EU press release, which includes a link to the PDF
of the regulation.
Well, it's not quite final yet is it?
I for one, appreciate the authoritarian rule of the EU & UK in so much as
in the United States, they give the monopolies much more autonomy.
I do think that having "easily" replaceable batteries is a good thing,
but often you don't get delivered what it says on the tin, how is
"right to repair" shaping-up?
I'm hoping this will prod phone makers to go back to user replaceable
batteries.
It might be helpful if there were a standard series of batteries and connectors, rather than every phone having a unique battery?
On 2023-07-24 05:22, Andy Burns wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
I'm hoping this will prod phone makers to go back to user replaceable
batteries.
It might be helpful if there were a standard series of batteries and
connectors, rather than every phone having a unique battery?
Hear we go again...
AJL wrote:
VanguardLH wrote
I've never felt an all-glass case is a smart idea for a smart phone,
or any portable phone.
Agreed.
Another reason users end up replacing their working phones because
the glass shattered.
Not if they're smart and use a protective case...
Why then have a glass back at all?
According to a leading U.S. consumer magazine the top three reasons, in order, why consumers replace their phone are:
1. Broken screen
2. Battery no longer holds enough charge
3. New features
If you don't have some sort of extended warranty or coverage plan, a
broken screen costs enough to replace that if the phone is already a
couple of years old it probably isn't worth fixing.
But a replacement
battery is less than $100, including labor so it would make sense to
replace it unless the phone is really old and lacks some vital features.
Some people really wanted 5G even without knowing what it would do for
them (usually nothing).
The one big issue, in terms of features, that was brought up in a recent Reddit thread regarding "repair or replace" was that the older phone
lacked some of the newer LTE bands that provided coverage advantages on
one of the U.S. carriers whose low-frequency LTE band was not supported
on older phones. I.e. read "Band 71 Fact and Fiction for Mobile
Travelers" at <https://www.expeditioncommunications.com/band-71-fact-and-fiction/>.
He applied logic to the issue.
Force everyone to use standard components and no one will be allowed to
find anything better.
Yes, the standardization of AA and AAA size batteries, 9V blocks, plus a
few coin cells has completely hampered the electronics industry for many decades now. We would have scheduled flights to alpha centauri these
days, if each manufacturer would only have introduced new battery sizes
with each new device.
Heck, there used to be a lot more standardized sizes and the industry
didn't even need them in the end!
You don't want to look that up because it's the worst in the industry!
Every Apple battery is GARBAGE compared to any decent $20 Android battery.
And yet Apple's PHONES (an entire system of battery capacity and energy usage) have some of the longest run times in the entire industry.
The industry misreads what people want, because they buy the only
choices available to them
On 2023-07-27 02:30, Alan wrote:
On 2023-07-26 10:24, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-26 17:13, Alan wrote:
On 2023-07-26 03:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-25 19:43, Alan wrote:
On 2023-07-25 04:57, Carlos E.R. wrote:Sure... so they protect the glass with a protective case :-P
On 2023-07-25 02:00, Alan wrote:
On 2023-07-24 14:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-24 22:45, AJL wrote:
On 7/24/23 11:56 AM, VanguardLH wrote
I've never felt an all-glass case is a smart idea for a smart >>>>>>>>>>> phone, or
any portable phone.
Agreed.
Another reason
users end up replacing their working phones because the glass >>>>>>>>>>> shattered.
Not if they're smart and use a protective case...
Why then have a glass back at all?
It's transparent to RF energy?
So is a good solid plastic back.
Sure... ...but people appear to LIKE glass backs more than plastic. >>>>>
Some do, sure...
So what?
Companies build what consumers want...
Not really.
Yes, really.
No :-D
On 7/27/2023 4:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Companies sell what can be sold well, not necessarily what consumers
want. And consumers buy "a phone" choosing from what is available that
has the features they want, no matter if it has some other features they
do not want. We can not just not buy a phone, we do need a phone.
The companies are not really asking their clients.
Companies do extensive market research (even when they insist that they >don't!) to determine the trade-offs in sales volume, manufacturing cost,
and other factors, before they add or remove features.
On 7/26/23 3:40 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-25 19:43, Alan wrote:
people appear to LIKE glass backs more than plastic.
I had to Google my Galaxy S10+ to see if it has a glass case. I couldn't
remember and I didn't want to take the plastic cover off after all these years. Turns out it does. But I doubt I bought it for that reason though I can't remember that either... :-\
Sure... so they protect the glass with a protective case :-P
I think I worry more about breaking the screen cause I could cover the back
with a case. Oh wait, I already did...
So I can believe that companies guess wrong quite frequently but still
manage to make money because their offerings stink less than others.
In this era of exzessive consumption, a company is successful, if it can >>> sell things the customer does *NOT* actually need.
Nobody ever died from an ice cream deficiency.
There is 0 chance consumers asked Apple to remove the charger from the box.
They sold cigarettes expressly marketed to women, didn't they?
Virginia Slims. I smoked PallMall and eventually those stupid things
that had holes around the filter which serious smokers took pains to
cover with their fingers.
There is 0 chance consumers asked Apple to remove the charger from the box.
wrong. apple, along with google, samsung and many companies, saw that
the chargers in the box were not being used because people already had
a bunch of them from other devices. the message from consumers was very
clear that including yet another was wasteful.
also, due to the proliferation of devices that charge via usb, many
people prefer to use chargers with multiple ports, which is much better
(and more economical) than individual chargers for each device, each
taking up a mains outlet.
due to the proliferation of devices that charge via usb, many
people prefer to use chargers with multiple ports, which is much better >>(and more economical) than individual chargers for each device, each
taking up a mains outlet.
Or wireless charging.
My phone's hole hasn't been stimulated in a very long time...
On 7/27/2023 8:49 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com wrote:
I think I worry more about breaking the screen cause I could cover
the back with a case.
You can also cover the front with a case, as I do.
Does your back-front case make the phone thicker than just a back case?
My back-only case wraps around the front sides of the phone in such a
way that "should" protect it from most drops to a flat surface. Since my >hiking trail days are long gone most of my life these days is lived on
flat surfaces so I "should" be OK...
There is 0 chance consumers asked Apple to remove the charger from the box. >>wrong. apple, along with google, samsung and many companies, saw that
the chargers in the box were not being used
Saw how, exactly? Did they have monitors in 100m homes checking to see if
the charger was removed from the box?
because people already had
a bunch of them from other devices.
Almost no-one had spare USB-C chargers given that very few Apple models -
nor many others - were sold with them at the time.
mini USB-A and USB-A yes, loads. USB-C nope.
the message from consumers was very
clear that including yet another was wasteful.
also, due to the proliferation of devices that charge via usb, many
people prefer to use chargers with multiple ports, which is much better
(and more economical) than individual chargers for each device, each
taking up a mains outlet.
Better still get USB sockets integrated into the power outlet so no mains sockets are used up. Again USB-A was the norm and USB-C was hard to find. It's still the exception rather than the rule. https://www.toolstation.com/axiom-13a-white-low-profile-usb-switched-socket/p27963
People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged
to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
that fits the cable that came with the phone.
If you do it at home, how do you unlock Apple's battery lock code
not needed, other than displaying battery health, which is not a
critical function (and most people don't even know it exists).
(without purchasing expensive specialized equipment to unlock it)?
apple provides that *for* *free* for those who want to do it on their
own.
Where?
Since you're ignorant of this battery lock - you expect others to be too.
*Apple is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Independent Repair*
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez3f1HgOa1o>
They are displaying a warning and not showing the battery health of the replacement battery ... unless ...
... one follows a straightforward workaround - but it requires fine
soldering skills and a chip programmer.
(Moving a part from the old battery to the new battery).
This unfortunately removes the replacement from the realm of the
ordinary fixer (like me) to more skilled shops - like the one I like
that is a few km from here (also do Apple Watch batteries now too...).
Apple are idiots in this regard - thankfully there are smart people
other there getting around Apple's silly repair obstructions.
People charge their phones overnight. Provided that the phone is charged >>>> to 100% by the time they wake up, the charger they use is fine.
It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have one
that fits the cable that came with the phone.
Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.
In addition, modern Androids will have double the useful life of iPhones
due simply to the undoubtable physics of vastly fewer charge/discharge
cycles (those charging cycles being mostly what degrades batteries).
iPhones are also less power hungry than Androids for the same
functionality due to the efficiency of Apple designed processors.
Android makers have to use the commodity "mobile" ARM chips from
Qualcomm et al.
I charge my iPhone 11 every 2 days at worst. I've had it near 4 years
and it's at 90% Max Cap.
I actually wish I could set it to charge to no more than 80% as that
would prolong the life of the battery while not affecting my daily power need.
So you can't just take one metric without also including the other, right?
Precisely - which is why your "Androids have more battery" is countered
by "iPhones use less power" and therefore don't need larger batteries.
It is essentially a draw.
However, this also means iPhones use less resources (lithium, rare earth metals) over their lifecycle (though such can be recovered).
Almost all Androids nowadays come with batteries twice Apple's capacity.
Which is only half the story. Androids are more power hungry so use that extra capacity faster.
Provided that the phone is charged to 100% by the time they wake
up, the charger they use is fine.
Ours have always been fully charged in the morning. YMMV.
On 7/30/2023 1:24 AM, Chris wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
People charge their phones overnight.
That's what I do. YMMV.
Provided that the phone is charged to 100% by the time they wake
up, the charger they use is fine.
Ours have always been fully charged in the morning. YMMV.
It makes no difference how they charge the phone if they don't have
one that fits the cable that came with the phone.
Both the Apple and Android phones that live in my house have used
wireless chargers since purchase, no cable or new charger required. YMMV...
Facts are good. It's how normal adults communicate technical concepts.
Would that you grow up and learn such.
Ignoring you now. Don't waste time with a reply.
Hmm, better yet: have at it.
On 7/30/2023 9:08 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
As I've said here before, I don't use a wireless charger, and see no
value in them.
As I've said here before, YMMV...
Does this battery lock only happen when you use non-Apple batteries?
Does this battery lock only happen when you use non-Apple batteries?
*any* battery can be used without issue, without any locking or
unlocking needed.
displaying battery health is the *only* function that requires the
battery to be authenticated (incorrectly called locked) so that the
reported data from the battery is known to be accurate.
displaying incorrect data is of no benefit to anyone. many batteries
report false data so that they appear to be better than they actually
are.
if battery health data reporting is of no interest, that step can be
skipped. everything else will work as expected.
Everyone charges their phones overnight
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
Not surprised you don't care.
Not surprised that you don't get it.
The EU does. Here, even Apple has to switch to USB-C, want it or not,
because of waste.
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.
It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
smart watches, electric vehicles, etc.. The batteries in phones are
sized with the expectation of daily charging.
Complete gibberish.
I charge my iPhone when needed. This about every 2 days - rarely 2 days
in a row and on occasion more than 2 days.
I charge my Watch every 2 nights.
No idea for my iPad - it can go over a week w/o being charged.
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.
It's what most people do. Plug in (or place on wireless charger) when
you go to bed at night, in the morning it's fully charged. Ditto for
smart watches,
Not smart watches, if you want them to monitor sleep. I charge mine
while I shower.
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone. >>Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.
He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever >need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices.
First off Apple replaced their 30 pin connector with something much
better that met the need. That of course was _not_ the poorly designed micro-USB. Year: 2012.
USB-C connector was introduced: 2014 (announced in 2012 as a reaction to
the Lightning connector).
This is something best left to the market - not regulation.
The market, btw, reduced e-waste by no longer shipping wall warts -
beginning with Apple and soon followed by everyone else. Par.
At the time, the alternatives were worse. Micro-USB and Mini-USB were
worse than Lightning.
I agree that, in a way, we can't blame Apple for coming up with a
non-standard cable connector because at that time both microusb and miniusb >> were worse than lightning is now.
What Apple probably should have done is realize that they created a
standard that nobody else wanted to use, and then, when USB-C came out,
Apple could have switched over to the standard connector everyone used.
That Apple didn't do that (for the iPhone) is an indication of Apple's lack >> of consumer-based decision making - which the EU kindly hastened for them.
In the malarkey department, you are at least consistent.
Having just
introduced Lightning (2012) after a mere 6 years of the iPhone being in
the market, switching again to USB-C in 2014 (USB-C availability) would
have been a massive disservice to Apple's customers. As it is Lightning
has been in service for over 10 years.
For products such as the iPhone it is still quite viable - but the EU is forcing the switch which will definitely cause an unneeded pulse of new e-waste.
Agree the Lightning had a huge advantage over micro-usb, being reversible. >> Competition is good because that forced USB-C to become the standard it is.
Yes - I certainly like them on my SO's MBA and will have them on my new
Mac (this fall? TBD) - need to see what Apple is doing this fall.
My SO's 7 year old iPhone needs to be replaced too - definitely this
fall when the new line pops. It will almost certainly have USB-C and
that sits well with her MBA setup.
This is something best left to the market - not regulation.
If Apple didn't have a duopoly, I would agree with you since nobody would
buy a no-name phone with a crazy non-standard connection method nowadays.
But if you want an iPhone, you're stuck with whatever cord it comes with.
No Android phone would be able to get away with these schemes. Only Apple.
See below regarding warts - same applies to cords - except people have
even more of them lying around because they come with the device.
The market, btw, reduced e-waste by no longer shipping wall warts -
beginning with Apple and soon followed by everyone else. Par.
That you believe iPhones charge themselves without eWarts is disturbing.
You probably also believe Jesus Christ was born from a virgin mother.
Silly girl. By the time Apple stopped shipping the charger with phones,
most people already had 2 or more lying around the house.
I've got
several here at that - which is convenient as I have three in the front
hall for guests, 1 in the bedroom for my Watch, 2 in my office, 2 in my
SO's office. (Mix of chargers from 4 iPhones over time, 2 iPads
(current), whatever was excess at work, etc. and so on).
Despite Apple's claims to charge an iPhone without a charger, it can't.
Please cite where Apple claim to charge a phone w/o a charger.
And nobody is going to share a modern PD/QC charger among multiple people. >>
Only Apple religious zealots wait in a queue sharing their PD charger.
Everyone else gets the correctly sized charger that comes with the phone.
Many Android phones come w/o a charger - Samsung began copying Apple a
month or so later. Painful to be you.
Despite Apple's claims to charge an iPhone without a charger, it can't. >>>Please cite where Apple claim to charge a phone w/o a charger.
Easy. They don't include the charger in the box:-p
Context blown - all the history behind that is old news.
But the wall wart is only supplied with almost every Android phone sold.
I doubt it. Once Apple set the pace on dropping the wart, Samsung et al followed in droves.
Phones do not charge themselves and nobody is going to be sharing warts,
particularly when phones are designed for these high power 65 watt warts.
And that too will end (if it hasn't already) once a cycle of power
supplies (warts) gets out there.
Despite Apple claiming years ago that old damaged equipment can be
dangerous, now Apple is telling you outright to use old damaged chargers.
Where does Apple say that. Be specific and supply links.
That said, it will safely charge off of the old 5W cube - just take
longer to do so.
charged, overnight is when I charge it. I even often charge it
overnight when it doesn't really need to be charged.
Thus reducing the overall battery life. Above 80% charge is stressful
on the battery. Why Apple delay charging to 80% until near when you
unplug it in the morning.
Ideally, there would be a setting to not charge above 80%. Similar to
Mac OS on laptops. If you're not unplugging it often, it stops charging
at 80%. This can be over-ridden of course.
But, as you will see over the next 5 years,
the EU's meddling in markets will cause a pulse of e-waste that
otherwise would not have happened.
As previously stipulated by you, the iPhone doesn't need a huge battery because the iPhone is far more energy efficient. Therefore a charge
lasts a long time.
So it all washed out in the end.
But one can easily look up which phones have the best run times:
Am 02.08.2023 um 21:19:03 Uhr schrieb Alan:
But one can easily look up which phones have the best run times:
Idiot.
He wasn't talking about run times which have nothing to do with battery
life due to the degradation of battery chemistry over time, you moron.
Am 01.08.23 um 16:45 schrieb Peter:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone. >>>Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know
many other people who do.
He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever >> need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices.
Although there might be no *NEED* to charge overnight, for many people
this still is the most reasonable way to do it, because
- the phone will definitely not be in use at this time.
- you can rely on a fully charged phone in the morning. The limited and >already quite hectic time between waking up and leaving to work/school
is not the best choice for squeezing in additional tasks that can be
easily forgotten.
- plugging in the phone at a fixed time (before going to bed) turns into
a ritual, which is much less likely to be forgotten.
- you might also want to schedule automated tasks like a backup into a
time, where the phone has unlimited power supply AND free Wifi AND is
not in use.
- quick charging is not exactly beneficial for battery life. It's quite >useful as "Plan B" (i even bought a QC-capable power bank), but not a
wise choice for regular use.
The answer to those three questions is why you are still charging overnight >> when nobody else is.
"nobody" is a very bold statement as it implies that your behavior is >ultimate, that is, you are god.
On 2023-08-03 17:51, Ken Blake wrote:
On Tue, 1 Aug 2023 20:21:26 +0200, Hergen Lehmann
<hlehmann.expires.12-22@snafu.de> wrote:
Am 01.08.23 um 16:45 schrieb Peter:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:Although there might be no *NEED* to charge overnight, for many people
Nobody charges overnight anymore unless something is wrong with the phone.
Nobody?
That's nonsense. I don't know how common it is, but I do, and I know >>>>> many other people who do.
He probably should have said nobody using current day equipment would ever >>>> need to charge overnight - as that's just unheard of for modern devices. >>>
this still is the most reasonable way to do it, because
- the phone will definitely not be in use at this time.
Not true for those of us who read Kindle books on their phone and who
read in bed.
Duh! It is not in use when you are sleeping, then.
He wasn't talking about run times which have nothing to do with battery >>life due to the degradation of battery chemistry over time, you moron.
Feel free to disagree with anything somebody says here.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2023-08-05, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
The poster is a forger, not the real Marco Moock. Someone is in the
habit of forging posters outside their usual group(s).
Anyone paying attention knows exactly who it is.
Ofcourse, but I didn't want to mention a 'name' and didn't want to
trigger yet another endless 'It's [not] him!' slew of 'responses'.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 20:03:42 -0000 (UTC), Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
wrote:
Am 02.08.2023 um 21:19:03 Uhr schrieb Alan:
But one can easily look up which phones have the best run times:
Idiot.
He wasn't talking about run times which have nothing to do with battery
life due to the degradation of battery chemistry over time, you moron.
Feel free to disagree with anything somebody says here.
Do *not* feel free to insult somebody you disagree with. Either stop
that or get killfiled by me and by others here.
If you intend to continue being insulting, please reply to this
message and call me an idiot and a moron, so I can killfile you
immediately.
The poster is a forger, not the real Marco Moock.
Someone is in the
habit of forging posters outside their usual group(s). So if you
killfile, (try to) make it group-specific.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On 5 Aug 2023 14:34:44 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 20:03:42 -0000 (UTC), Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
wrote:
Am 02.08.2023 um 21:19:03 Uhr schrieb Alan:
But one can easily look up which phones have the best run times:
Idiot.
He wasn't talking about run times which have nothing to do with battery >> >> >life due to the degradation of battery chemistry over time, you moron. >> >>
Feel free to disagree with anything somebody says here.
Do *not* feel free to insult somebody you disagree with. Either stop
that or get killfiled by me and by others here.
If you intend to continue being insulting, please reply to this
message and call me an idiot and a moron, so I can killfile you
immediately.
The poster is a forger, not the real Marco Moock.
OK, if you say so. I hadn't realized that. I haven't run across a
Marco Moock anywhere else.
You should pay more attention! :-) He posts in other groups you're
subscribed to, but he's not a (very) frequent poster, so you're excused!
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