I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
.... Also it is
_primary_ rental car insurance not secondary. Also it pays for TSA
Precheck or Global Entry (get the latter since it includes TSA Precheck,
it's just more of a hassle to sign up). It also gives one extra year of warranty protection which is useful now that the Citibank Costco Visa
dropped extended warranty protection.
On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
It certainly works outside the USA - I'm using it in UK. I'm pretty sure
that I've used it in the Netherlands too - so Italy is probably ok.
My view is that it's safer than carrying a contactless card. If your card
is lost or stolen, the finder can make a number of transactions - each up
to 100GB£ in the UK - without needing to know the PIN. However, anyone who finds your phone will need to turn it on - requiring a PIN or face recognition or fingerprint - before they can use Google Pay.
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
cards as well.
Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.
One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile wallet transactions.
3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
for dining and travel)
This makes me wonder about the legal issues. I expect we'll
have to face those at some point.
What about poor people who
can't afford bank accounts?
What about the federal law printed
on bills that says they're legal tender for all debts? I don't
see how a public store or restaurant can legally refuse cash.
I went searching, but it's frustrating. Apparently no credit cards
offer the free rental car insurance that they used to or the extra
warranty.
On 7/9/2023 12:12 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
My recent experience in the UK (Wales, NI, Scotland) is that you are
more likely to find contactless (card or phone) accepted nearly
everywhere while many establishments flatly refuse to accept cash. Even street vendors were wired. I found the same thing in Amsterdam. The bar
in my hotel in Belfast had prominent signs as I entered declining to
accept cash. Luckily they took GPay so I could stay lubricated.
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
cards as well.
On 7/9/2023 7:20 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
I used Google Pay and Apple Pay extensively in Italy in 2019. In Milan,
I was looking for some Euro coins for the pay toilet at the Duomo but it >ended up being unnecessary since the toilets took Apple Pay and Google
Pay! We used very little cash in Italy since nearly every place we went
had NFC payments, either via a phone or a credit card.
Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign >transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which >rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.
One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile >wallet transactions. 3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards, >there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
for dining and travel) but the extra 1% cash back makes up for that. It
also gives you four Priority Pass lounge visits (for 2) or a big credit
at some airport restaurants if there is no PP lounge. Also it is
_primary_ rental car insurance not secondary. Also it pays for TSA
Precheck or Global Entry (get the latter since it includes TSA Precheck, >it's just more of a hassle to sign up). It also gives one extra year of >warranty protection which is useful now that the Citibank Costco Visa >dropped extended warranty protection.
In 2019 it was pre-Brexit and I got UK Vodafone SIM cards, in advance,
with 500MB per day of data for 1 per day but that deal is long gone. It
was very useful to have high-speed data as soon as we arrived. Download >Moovit.
On 09/07/2023 15:20, Ken Blake wrote:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
It certainly works outside the USA - I'm using it in UK. I'm pretty sure >that I've used it in the Netherlands too - so Italy is probably ok.
My view is that it's safer than carrying a contactless card. If your
card is lost or stolen, the finder can make a number of transactions -
each up to 100GB in the UK - without needing to know the PIN. However, >anyone who finds your phone will need to turn it on - requiring a PIN or >face recognition or fingerprint - before they can use Google Pay.
"Bodger" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote
|
| You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
| establishments or so I found in my travels.
Interesting. Another good reason not to visit the UK.
I rarely use anything but cash for anything. It's cheaper, less
risky
I wasn't considering using GooglePay and not carrying any credit
cards. I was rather thinking of carrying both with each acting as
backup for the other.
snipage...and carry that bulk of coins around.
and more snippage...
If someone steals your U.S. credit card they can use it freely since
no PIN is required.
If they steal your phone it's a lot more difficult to use Apple Pay
or Google Pay without knowing your PIN, pattern, fingerprint, or
face.
See <https://www.creditcards.com/education/which-us-issuers-offer-chip-and-pin-card/>.
In article <u8emaf$25vdf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.
most banks refund atm fees.
One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
wallet transactions.
that particular card has a $400 annual fee.
3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit
for dining and travel)
it's only a net $75 *if* all of the travel credit is used.
but even then, someone would have to spend $7500 a year to break even
versus a 2% card on everything, with no annual fees.
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
cards as well.
You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many establishments or so I found in my travels. I dutifully went to my bank and got around $750 worth of pounds sterling before my trip last Autumn to
Wales but I spent almost none of it since everybody seemed to expect contactless. This Spring I went to NI and Scotland and the same thing happened. I still have at least $500 worth of pounds in my passport in the safe and don't know when I'll ever use it up. Same thing with Euros -- I still have a stash of them in the safe since cash is frowned upon in many places. I've got to admit that I've gotten used to this method of payment
and am glad to see that more companies here are taking it up -- even my stodgy local grocery has caught up with the times.
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I reconsider?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose
Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
nospam wrote:
In article <u8emaf$25vdf$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Of course make sure that your credit cards don't have any foreign
transaction fees and that for cash you have a Schwab 1 debit card which
rebates all ATM fees worldwide and has no minimum balance requirement.
most banks refund atm fees.
One big advantage to me of Apple Pay and Google Pay is that I have a
Visa card (US Bank Altitude Visa) that gives 3% cash back on all mobile
wallet transactions.
that particular card has a $400 annual fee.
3% flat rate cash back is unusual for credit cards,
there was one other one from a credit union but it has been
discontinued. It has a net annual fee of $75 (after a $325 yearly credit >>> for dining and travel)
it's only a net $75 *if* all of the travel credit is used.
but even then, someone would have to spend $7500 a year to break even
versus a 2% card on everything, with no annual fees.
You're very lucky in the US - the best cashback I can get in the UK is with the Chase Bank card (UK version) which gives 1% cashback
On 7/9/2023 4:04 PM, sms wrote:
If someone steals your U.S. credit card they can use it freely since
no PIN is required.
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using my
phone's bank app.
"Bodger" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote
|
| You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
| establishments or so I found in my travels.
Interesting. Another good reason not to visit the UK.
(The first being that my flight would surely be cancelled. :)
I'm surprised that it's legal to refuse cash. There are several
places in the US where accepting cash has long been
required, and more places are moving that way...
Just
in time to prevent Amazon building cash-less
supermarkets.
I rarely use anything but cash for anything. It's cheaper, less
risky, better privacy and doesn't line the pockets of sleazy bank
middlemen who don't work for their cut. Where I have to use a
card I do and I get cash back. But I try to avoid it where possible.
I'd never use a debit card or phone payment system. That's
just handing a kickback to Square, Apple, Google or some such
for no reason.
This makes me wonder about the legal issues. I expect we'll
have to face those at some point. What about poor people who
can't afford bank accounts?
What about the federal law printed
on bills that says they're legal tender for all debts? I don't
see how a public store or restaurant can legally refuse cash.
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
I've so far avoided using Google Pay, or anything like it. Should I
reconsider?
What are you missing? Why do you think it could improve your life?
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
If it might be a good idea to use something like this, should I choose >>>> Google Play or something else? Why?
And a relatively minor question--do these work outside of the
US--especially in Italy, where I'll be for a couple of weeks in
November?
AFAIK it does. But your credit card will work too. Cash works and debit
cards as well.
You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many
establishments or so I found in my travels. I dutifully went to my bank and >> got around $750 worth of pounds sterling before my trip last Autumn to
Wales but I spent almost none of it since everybody seemed to expect
contactless. This Spring I went to NI and Scotland and the same thing
happened. I still have at least $500 worth of pounds in my passport in the >> safe and don't know when I'll ever use it up. Same thing with Euros -- I
still have a stash of them in the safe since cash is frowned upon in many
places. I've got to admit that I've gotten used to this method of payment
and am glad to see that more companies here are taking it up -- even my
stodgy local grocery has caught up with the times.
Your experience is at odds with the usual system in England. I only know of one small, miles-from-anywhere pub that won't take cash (no bank anywhere near). Everywhere else I've ever shopped takes cash.
take cards, but there are still quite a few that will only take cash, especially for small transactions where they lose money on card
transactions. Most will not now take paper cheques, though.
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with
cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
I haven't been
to Scotland for years, but I've never known a Scotsman refuse any form of money!
You're very lucky in the US - the best cashback I can get in the UK is with the Chase Bank card (UK version) which gives 1% cashback (but you have to
pay in £500 per month to get it, you don't get it on everything you buy and there's a £15 cashback limit per month). Amex Everyday Credit card (no annual fee) gives 0.5% cashback if you spend over £3000 p.a. and a bit more for over £10000. Some Amex charge cards here give a bit more (but not as cashback) but the annual fees make them uneconomic except for the big spenders. Lots of retailers won't take Amex as they charge the retailers higher fees than all the others. After that there are a couple of credit cards giving 0.25%.
On 7/9/2023 1:53 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
<snip>
I wasn't considering using GooglePay and not carrying any credit
cards. I was rather thinking of carrying both with each acting as
backup for the other.
Google Pay and Apple Pay are really nice to have in Europe.
It's likely that none of your U.S. credit cards are Chip & PIN. There
are only a few U.S. credit cards that offer Chip & PIN and even fewer
that have PIN priority. Without Chip & PIN it is sometimes difficult to
make purchases like train tickets and mass transit passes from
unattended kiosks. But Apple Pay and Google Pay work fine.
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches >> left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in >> the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with
cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
COVID also pushed many to stop handling cash. The only places that still regularly refuse cards are taxis IME.
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work in Canada?
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with
cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped. I haven't been
to Scotland for years, but I've never known a Scotsman refuse any form of money!
On 7/10/2023 4:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work in
Canada?
Can't speak for Canada but in the U.S. it's pretty rare to find a
merchant that still uses mag stripe readers because the U.S. banks will
not reimburse merchants for fraud if they don't use EMV or contactless <https://www.ncr.com/blogs/payments/emv-magnetic-stripe>.
A couple of times a year I'll run across a merchant with only a
magstripe reader and that's usually at a flea market where they have an
old Square device.
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
On 7/10/2023 4:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work in
Canada?
Can't speak for Canada but in the U.S. it's pretty rare to find a
merchant that still uses mag stripe readers because the U.S. banks will
not reimburse merchants for fraud if they don't use EMV or contactless ><https://www.ncr.com/blogs/payments/emv-magnetic-stripe>.
A couple of times a year I'll run across a merchant with only a
magstripe reader and that's usually at a flea market where they have an
old Square device.
On 2023-07-10 14:13, sms wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work
in Canada?
Oh, and they don't have embossed name and numbers. I hope that's ok.
an old Square device.
Ah, good. That's reassuring. I can expect my chip and pin cards to work
over there :-)
On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 05:13:16 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work in
Canada?
Can't speak for Canada but in the U.S. it's pretty rare to find a
merchant that still uses mag stripe readers because the U.S. banks will
Pretty rare? In my experience, it's very common.
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it. I could also do it on any nearby browser. Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity. Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if it
was normally like that.
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
I could also do it on any nearby browser.
Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity.
Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
On 7/10/2023 6:48 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
Yes, it's a great idea to carry a sheet of paper with all your credit
card numbers and the phone number of every credit card issuer.
I could also do it on any nearby browser.
Yes, that could work.
Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity.
That is true, but it still ends up being a hassle to fill out the forms
that the credit card company mails to you in order to permanently remove >unauthorized charges.
Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
It's just the level of hassle.
It's also the issue that even though
you're not responsible for fraudulent charges, the bank still has to
absorb the loss.
Which is why they came up with chip & pin in most
countries.
In the U.S., the credit card issuers are terrified that
anything they do to make it more of a task to use a credit card will
reduce credit card use so they accept the higher levels of fraud.
On 7/10/2023 7:15 AM, Adrian wrote:
<Snip>
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with
contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if
it was normally like that.
What I see is people paying with an iPhone waiting until the cashier announces the total and then struggling to get their phone to unlock
with FaceID and then entering their PIN if they can't get FaceID to
work. I do that struggle in advance because I get 50% more cashback if I
pay with my phone.
With a contactless credit card there is FaceID/PIN struggle.
EMV takes longer than either type of contactless, and cash takes the
longest.
On 2023-07-10 01:04, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 1:53 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
<snip>
I wasn't considering using GooglePay and not carrying any credit
cards. I was rather thinking of carrying both with each acting as
backup for the other.
Google Pay and Apple Pay are really nice to have in Europe.
It's likely that none of your U.S. credit cards are Chip & PIN. There
are only a few U.S. credit cards that offer Chip & PIN and even fewer
that have PIN priority. Without Chip & PIN it is sometimes difficult to
make purchases like train tickets and mass transit passes from
unattended kiosks. But Apple Pay and Google Pay work fine.
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work in Canada?
On 2023-07-10 14:13, sms wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work in
Canada?
Oh, and they don't have embossed name and numbers. I hope that's ok.
Can't speak for Canada but in the U.S. it's pretty rare to find a
merchant that still uses mag stripe readers because the U.S. banks will
not reimburse merchants for fraud if they don't use EMV or contactless
<https://www.ncr.com/blogs/payments/emv-magnetic-stripe>.
A couple of times a year I'll run across a merchant with only a
magstripe reader and that's usually at a flea market where they have an
old Square device.
Ah, good. That's reassuring. I can expect my chip and pin cards to work
over there :-)
Many small
businesses and venues have stopped accepting cash because of the cost
and the risks,
The only bank or credit union on that list that has no minimum balance requirement and no fees and that refunds an unlimited number of foreign
ATM fees is Schwab
What are the advantages of using it? What are the disadvantages?
Especially what are the security risks if my phone is lost or stolen?
It depends on how secure your phone lock is. An easy to guess PIN - or if you've been observed typing it in - will mean a thief has access to your cards and is able to use them. As well as anything else in your phone.
A simple loss is a minor problem but still a PITA.
The main advantage is contactless payments which I believe aren't that
common in the US. We've had that in Europe for nearly a decade.
Anywhere touristy will take any form of payment ;)
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if it
was normally like that.
| Cash is more expensive because you don't get cashback for cash.
|
| Cash is more risky because, once it's been stolen, you will never get
| it back again, whereas contactless payments are often protected.
|
| Cash is less convenient because you have to keep filling up your wallet
| or purse, and carry that bulk of coins around. And sometimes you find
| you haven't got the exact amount required, usually to pay a machine.
|
Yes, I've heard all these rationalizations. You get
cash back, but did you think the banks were doing that
to be nice?
Someone has to pay. You get 1-2% cash
back, they're charging 3-5%. Debit cards charge a fee
for simply debiting your bank account.
Where I live,
cash discounts are making a comeback....
You might find that in the UK at least cash is flatly refused in many establishments or so I found in my travels.
maybe the places you frequent as a visitor are not unrepresentative?
On 2023-07-10 13:33, Chris wrote:
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
...
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches >>> left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in >>> the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with >>> cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
COVID also pushed many to stop handling cash. The only places that still
regularly refuse cards are taxis IME.
That's what happened here, but when covid was controlled and masks
became not mandatory, small and cheap stuff shops went back to cash
only, or cards not accepted for small amounts.
In article <u8gplc$2guqu$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
This makes me wonder about the legal issues. I expect we'll
have to face those at some point. What about poor people who
can't afford bank accounts?
How do you think poor people get paid or get benefits?
usually by check, which is cashed at a check cashing service, not a
bank. sometimes it's direct deposited into a prepaid card, also not a
bank. sometimes cash.
Everyone can get a
bank account.
they can, but not everyone does.
<https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/economic-data/worlds-most-unbanked-co untries>
Morocco, Vietnam, Egypt, Philippines, Mexico: these are the top 5
countries, according to a just-released study by the British research
platform Merchant Machine, where the unbanked population is the
largest.
On a global level, the regions with the highest proportion
of developing or emerging economies, quite predictably, top the
list: in the Middle East and Africa the 50% of the population is
financially excluded, South and Central America follow at 38%,
Eastern Europe and the former Soviet republics at 33%, Asia
Pacific¹s share stands at 24%.
But make no mistake: the two most-developed regions of the world
are no shining examples of financial inclusion eitherfurthermore,
having a bank account does not always equal being able to access
certain correlated services such as loans.
While in Western and
Central Europe a relatively low 6% of the population experiences a
measure of financial exclusion, the proportion reaches 21% in North
Americaa figure that closely mirrors a 2019 report by the Federal
Reserve showing that 22% of adults in the United States (or 63
million) were underbanked (16%) or fully unbanked (6%).
<https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/household-survey/index.html>
An estimated 4.5 percent of U.S. households (approximately 5.9
million) were ³unbanked² in 2021, meaning that no one in the
household had a checking or savings account at a bank or credit union.
In article <t8VaKPMeKBrkFwko@ku.gro.lloiff>, Adrian
<bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> wrote:
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with
contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if it
was normally like that.
it's normally much faster. double-squeeze and hold it to the reader.
done.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-10 13:33, Chris wrote:
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
...
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches >>>> left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in
the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with >>>> cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
COVID also pushed many to stop handling cash. The only places that still >>> regularly refuse cards are taxis IME.
That's what happened here, but when covid was controlled and masks
became not mandatory, small and cheap stuff shops went back to cash
only, or cards not accepted for small amounts.
Nope no return here. Shops have now invested in the hardware required.
Oh I forgot to say the chinese takeaways are also well known for not
talking cards.
In message <u8h26n$2hrg3$1@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> writes
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
Comment not specifically aimed at anyone.
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if it
was normally like that.
On 7/10/2023 5:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-10 14:13, sms wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
Question. My cards no longer have a magnetic stripe. Will they work
in Canada?
Oh, and they don't have embossed name and numbers. I hope that's ok.
Yes, a lot of cards have dropped the embossing.
That's something you'll not ever see anymore, those credit card
imprinter machines and sales slips.
an old Square device.
Ah, good. That's reassuring. I can expect my chip and pin cards to
work over there :-)
Join the 21st century and do contactless, either with the card or with
your phone.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-10 13:33, Chris wrote:
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
...
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches >>>> left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in
the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with >>>> cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
COVID also pushed many to stop handling cash. The only places that still >>> regularly refuse cards are taxis IME.
That's what happened here, but when covid was controlled and masks
became not mandatory, small and cheap stuff shops went back to cash
only, or cards not accepted for small amounts.
Nope no return here. Shops have now invested in the hardware required.
Oh I forgot to say the chinese takeaways are also well known for not
talking cards.
On 7/10/2023 12:22 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
<snip>
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank
branches
left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will
take in
the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with
cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped. I haven't
been
to Scotland for years, but I've never known a Scotsman refuse any form of
money!
In the U.S. a growing number of businesses won't take cash anymore.
Airlines abandoned cash for in-flight purchases years ago.
Many
entertainment venues don't take cash for food & drink or merchandise purchases. It's mainly restaurants that have begun refusing cash and
this increased during the pandemic, both for perceived safety and
because it reduces the number of employees required. You still run
across cash-only businesses, but the motivation for taking only cash is usually to hide income, it's not to avoid paying credit card merchant fees.
On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 17:53:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-10 13:33, Chris wrote:
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
...
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches
left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in
the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with >>>>> cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
COVID also pushed many to stop handling cash. The only places that still >>>> regularly refuse cards are taxis IME.
That's what happened here, but when covid was controlled and masks
became not mandatory, small and cheap stuff shops went back to cash
only, or cards not accepted for small amounts.
Nope no return here. Shops have now invested in the hardware required.
Oh I forgot to say the chinese takeaways are also well known for not
talking cards.
And if they did talk, I'd have a lot of trouble understanding their
Chinese.
I thought so, but I wondered. I heard that over there you are still
using cheques, which here disappeared long ago :-D :-P
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very common.
I thought so, but I wondered. I heard that over there you are still
using cheques, which here disappeared long ago :-D :-P
On 2023-07-10 14:07, sms wrote:
In the U.S. a growing number of businesses won't take cash anymore.
Airlines abandoned cash for in-flight purchases years ago.
How do they manage? The machines may not have internet. Do debit cards
work up there?
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they
figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link,
I suspect it is not that reliable.
plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
AFAIK, debit cards have a relatively low limit when there is no communications with their central server.
In article <u8i4l3$2liqe$3@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
In the U.S. a growing number of businesses won't take cash anymore.
Airlines abandoned cash for in-flight purchases years ago.
How do they manage? The machines may not have internet. Do debit cards
work up there?
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they
figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link,
plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
I could also do it on any nearby browser.
Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity. Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
In article <u8i4l3$2liqe$3@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
In the U.S. a growing number of businesses won't take cash anymore.
Airlines abandoned cash for in-flight purchases years ago.
How do they manage? The machines may not have internet. Do debit cards
work up there?
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they
figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link, plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
In article <7slunjxg7f.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they
figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link,
I suspect it is not that reliable.
no reason why it wouldn't be. in-flight wifi is very reliable.
plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
AFAIK, debit cards have a relatively low limit when there is no
communications with their central server.
they accept both debit & credit cards.
On 2023-07-10 15:48, AJL wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
And where are those? Pay phones boxes have been removed or are being
removed.
I could also do it on any nearby browser.
Where do you get it? Public?
Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity. Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
Not everybody is...
On 2023-07-10 15:48, AJL wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately
using my phone's bank app
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
And where are those?
Pay phones boxes have been removed or are being removed.
I could also do it on any nearby browser.
Where do you get it? Public?
Third I'm covered for any fraudulent credit card activity. Bottom
line: there's not much security difference (for me) whether my
credit card's in my pocket or on my phone...
Not everybody is...
I know they do. I also know that my debit card, when the box on the wall
has lost connection, will only give me a limited amount of cash. I also remember once when internet went down (of the cards network fell down),
and people were blocked in the gas stations because they simply could
not pay the gas for some hours.
On 7/10/2023 2:59 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
I thought so, but I wondered. I heard that over there you are still
using cheques, which here disappeared long ago :-D :-P
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very common.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2023 17:53:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-10 13:33, Chris wrote:
Bob Henson <bob.henson@outlook.com> wrote:
Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 12:13 PM, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Am 09.07.23 um 16:20 schrieb Ken Blake:
...
It will start to change as there are now hardly any physical bank branches
left and in many places the Post Office is the only place that will take in
the cash takings from businesses, but as yet you'll have no problem with >>>>>> cash in England ot the bits of Wales in which I've shopped.
COVID also pushed many to stop handling cash. The only places that still >>>>> regularly refuse cards are taxis IME.
That's what happened here, but when covid was controlled and masks
became not mandatory, small and cheap stuff shops went back to cash
only, or cards not accepted for small amounts.
Nope no return here. Shops have now invested in the hardware required.
Oh I forgot to say the chinese takeaways are also well known for not
talking cards.
*taking cards
And if they did talk, I'd have a lot of trouble understanding their
Chinese.
Lol. Bloody autocorrect!
it is a pain in the butt when your credit cards are lost or stolen.
You will have to dispute fraudulent charges, often filling out forms
sent to you by the credit card company in order to have fraudulent
charges permanently removed.
You will have to have new credit cards issued, losing the use of them
in the meantime
You will need to change all of your automatic payments linked to the
credit card.
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com wrote:
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very
common.
I don't use checks often, but I do to a couple of vendors I use who
don't take credit cards--my wife's hairdresser and our gardener.
On 7/11/2023 2:50 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-10 15:48, AJL wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately
using my phone's bank app
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
And where are those?
Depends on where I am. Perhaps the wife's phone if she's nearby. Next
any nearby store/restaurant/hotel's phone. If I've been robbed as in
sms's scenario I think most businesses would allow it (after my first
call to the police). And in my normal haunts I'm 10 minutes driving time
at most from my banks or home.
Pay phones boxes have been removed or are being removed.
Dunno. Libraries are pretty old fashioned. Maybe they have one... ;)
On 7/11/2023 8:17 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/11/2023 2:50 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Pay phones boxes have been removed or are being removed.
Dunno. Libraries are pretty old fashioned. Maybe they have one...
;)
Our library doesn't have a pay phone but there is one across the
plaza at city hall. I have never seen it used.
Not sure where you live,
I guess that your library still uses the Dewey Decimal System and
wooden card catalogs.
In my area libraries are far from old fashioned.
I'm sure that both yours and my taxpayer funded libraries are very up to date. Just (IMO) unneeded in our modern internet age...
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they
figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link, plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
Doubtful. I've seen this on Ryanair; the cheapest of the cheap airlines.
They wouldn't pay for such a thing.
Our library doesn't have a pay phone but there is one across the plaza
at city hall. I have never seen it used.
Not sure where you live, I guess that your library still uses the Dewey Decimal System and wooden card catalogs. In my area libraries are far
from old fashioned.
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they >>>> figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link,
I suspect it is not that reliable.
no reason why it wouldn't be. in-flight wifi is very reliable.
No doubt. But the connection to land, I doubt it.
plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
AFAIK, debit cards have a relatively low limit when there is no
communications with their central server.
they accept both debit & credit cards.
I know they do. I also know that my debit card, when the box on the wall
has lost connection, will only give me a limited amount of cash. I also remember once when internet went down (of the cards network fell down),
and people were blocked in the gas stations because they simply could
not pay the gas for some hours.
On 7/11/2023 9:03 AM, AJL wrote:
I'm sure that both yours and my taxpayer funded libraries are very
up to date. Just (IMO) unneeded in our modern internet age...
Guess you voted for Kari Lake.
BTW I watched her for years on our local channel 10 news. She was a good newscaster. Should have stuck with it...
there's an air-land link, plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
Doubtful. I've seen this on Ryanair; the cheapest of the cheap airlines. >> They wouldn't pay for such a thing.
fortunately, other airlines aren't like ryanair.
The point is an air-land link is not necessary.
In article <u8j8nr$2sokl$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they
figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the
transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link, plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
Doubtful. I've seen this on Ryanair; the cheapest of the cheap airlines.
They wouldn't pay for such a thing.
fortunately, other airlines aren't like ryanair.
On 7/11/2023 8:17 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/11/2023 2:50 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-10 15:48, AJL wrote:
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately
using my phone's bank app
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it.
And where are those?
Depends on where I am. Perhaps the wife's phone if she's nearby. Next
any nearby store/restaurant/hotel's phone. If I've been robbed as in
sms's scenario I think most businesses would allow it (after my first
call to the police). And in my normal haunts I'm 10 minutes driving time
at most from my banks or home.
Pay phones boxes have been removed or are being removed.
Dunno. Libraries are pretty old fashioned. Maybe they have one... ;)
Our library doesn't have a pay phone but there is one across the plaza
at city hall. I have never seen it used.
Not sure where you live, I guess that your library still uses the Dewey >Decimal System
and wooden card catalogs.
On 7/11/2023 9:10 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/11/2023 9:03 AM, AJL wrote:
I'm sure that both yours and my taxpayer funded libraries are very
up to date. Just (IMO) unneeded in our modern internet age...
Guess you voted for Kari Lake.
Is she anti-library? That might have influenced my vote except that the governor doesn't control our local city library/politics
BTW I watched her for years on our local channel 10 news. She was a good newscaster. Should have stuck with it...
In article <oeuvnjx0ie.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Debit cards are fine. Not sure about the communications. Perhaps they >>>>>> figure that airline passengers are good risks and they just run the >>>>>> transactions when they land.
there's an air-land link,
I suspect it is not that reliable.
no reason why it wouldn't be. in-flight wifi is very reliable.
No doubt. But the connection to land, I doubt it.
where do you think the in-flight wifi connects?
plus the amounts are tiny and they know who
is using the card.
AFAIK, debit cards have a relatively low limit when there is no
communications with their central server.
they accept both debit & credit cards.
I know they do. I also know that my debit card, when the box on the wall
has lost connection, will only give me a limited amount of cash. I also
remember once when internet went down (of the cards network fell down),
and people were blocked in the gas stations because they simply could
not pay the gas for some hours.
airlines aren't dispensing cash and gas station purchases are normally
more than a bag of chips or a sandwich. gas stations are also fraud
targets.
as i said, they know who is on the plane, so even if they can't (or
don't) do realtime verification, they could track it back to the
person.
On 7/11/2023 9:23 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/11/2023 9:10 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/11/2023 9:03 AM, AJL wrote:
I'm sure that both yours and my taxpayer funded libraries are very
up to date. Just (IMO) unneeded in our modern internet age...
Guess you voted for Kari Lake.
Is she anti-library? That might have influenced my vote except that the
governor doesn't control our local city library/politics
BTW I watched her for years on our local channel 10 news. She was a good
newscaster. Should have stuck with it...
Talking about channel 10 I just noticed this on their website. Turns out neither card nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
to manage my biometric data.
The palm seems like as odd choice as well.
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
to manage my biometric data.
Why not? Everything else is online.
Since I use my credit card for
everything (cashback) my purchasing life's online. My financial life is online in bank servers, US tax servers, etc. My medical life's online in
docs servers. Etc etc etc...
BTW one of my docs is getting closer. They no longer uses check in
folks. I'm greeted at the door with a machine that asks me to insert my drivers license, then my insurance card, and finally my credit card
after which it thanks me and asks me to take a seat saying I'll be seen shortly. Welcome to the modern world. I guess I wouldn't be that
surprised if an android doc showed up...
(BTW readers, notice the word Android. I'm still on topic... ;)
The palm seems like as odd choice as well.
What would you choose? Face maybe?
In article <u8k6cn$2vt4l$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
there's an air-land link, plus the amounts are tiny and they know who >>>>> is using the card.
Doubtful. I've seen this on Ryanair; the cheapest of the cheap airlines. >>>> They wouldn't pay for such a thing.
fortunately, other airlines aren't like ryanair.
The point is an air-land link is not necessary.
true, but that doesn't mean it's never used.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and
the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a
country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and
the data is stolen.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and
the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and
the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least
Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia >> are looking at doing it.
What di I write? Here the french example. To remind the readers: France
has 68 million inhabitants.
To support care coordination, a national electronic medical record
(DMP), has been created by law in 2004. Because of technical
difficulties and delays during implementation, the project was entrusted
to a dedicated technical agency in 2009. But 3 years later, only 160,000
DMPs had been opened contrary to the several million expected.
Physicians criticized the technical and administrative burden, but the
main factors highlighted were resistance to sharing information with
patients and with other professionals. Failing to cross the critical threshold of users that gives value to the system, the project failed.
After this first attempt, the project was entrusted by law to the
national health insurance fund in 2016. The new policy was addressed to patients, professionals and software companies. The policy has allowed patients to independently access and modify their DMP data already in possession of the national public medical insurance, and has introduced financial incentives for physicians opening a DMP. As a result the
deployment of DMPs has accelerated substantially: 350,000 new DMPs were opened in nine pilot departments within a year. If scaled-up to the
entire country, this number would correspond to 4 million DMPs.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises. The
result is ridiculous.
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Switzerland
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and
the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least
Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia >> are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Theoretically yes but in reality the risks outweigh the benefits by a
wide margin.
It also has something to do with trust.
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and
the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least
Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia >> are looking at doing it.
What di I write? Here the french example. To remind the readers: France
has 68 million inhabitants.
To support care coordination, a national electronic medical record
(DMP), has been created by law in 2004.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
The
result is ridiculous.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before brexit.
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for
example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before
brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68
million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside.
Get it?
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out
neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>>>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities
even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Switzerland
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and >>>> the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least
Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia >>> are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Theoretically yes but in reality the risks outweigh the benefits by a
wide margin.
That's not a fact. The reality is that many medical improvements have been driven by the reuse of patient data.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for
example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before >>> brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68
million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside.
I already told you. DMP is not what you think it is. All current patient records in e.g. hospitals are electronic.
On 2023-07-13 20:56, Chris wrote:
That's not a fact. The reality is that many medical improvements have been >> driven by the reuse of patient data.
Absolutely not. Here it is a closed system. It is absolutely forbidden
to use patient data. Serious crime.
You must live in a third world country.
Am 14.07.23 um 00:15 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for
example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before >>>> brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68
million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside.
I already told you. DMP is not what you think it is. All current patient
records in e.g. hospitals are electronic.
And you do not know what a national EPD is.
On 2023-07-13 20:56, Chris wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out >>>>>>>> neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a >>>>>> country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities >>>>> even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Switzerland
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and >>>>> the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least >>>> Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia >>>> are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Theoretically yes but in reality the risks outweigh the benefits by a
wide margin.
That's not a fact. The reality is that many medical improvements have been >> driven by the reuse of patient data.
Absolutely not. Here it is a closed system. It is absolutely forbidden
to use patient data. Serious crime.
You must live in a third world country.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.07.23 um 00:15 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for >>>>> example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before >>>>> brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68
million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside.
I already told you. DMP is not what you think it is. All current patient >>> records in e.g. hospitals are electronic.
And you do not know what a national EPD is.
Environmental Product Declaration? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_product_declaration
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-13 20:56, Chris wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out >>>>>>>>> neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a
country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities >>>>>> even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Switzerland
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and >>>>>> the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least >>>>> Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia
are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Theoretically yes but in reality the risks outweigh the benefits by a
wide margin.
That's not a fact. The reality is that many medical improvements have been >>> driven by the reuse of patient data.
Absolutely not. Here it is a closed system. It is absolutely forbidden
to use patient data. Serious crime.
Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
You must live in a third world country.
I know brexit hasn't been great, but it's not *that* bad
.. yet ;)
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
| > Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
|
| Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
|
I expect it's the same in the US. Chris is out to lunch.
Anyone subject to research in the US would be faced with
all sorts of disclaimers and contracts. We have a law known
as HIPAA which prohibits sharing medical data. Though my
doctor's portal site has links to Google, and as I recall, the
drugstore chain CVS was caught at one point selling data.
Doctors can't sell your prescription history, but CVS isn't
a doctor. We still don't have the same basic privacy rules
here. Though I saw that the EU buckled and will now allow
US social media to store EU data in the US. Unfortunate.
Am 14.07.23 um 15:40 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.07.23 um 00:15 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises.
Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for >>>>>> example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before >>>>>> brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68
million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside.
I already told you. DMP is not what you think it is. All current patient >>>> records in e.g. hospitals are electronic.
And you do not know what a national EPD is.
Environmental Product Declaration?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_product_declaration
QED.
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
| > Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
|
| Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
|
I expect it's the same in the US. Chris is out to lunch.
Anyone subject to research in the US would be faced with
all sorts of disclaimers and contracts. We have a law known
as HIPAA which prohibits sharing medical data.
Though my
doctor's portal site has links to Google, and as I recall, the
drugstore chain CVS was caught at one point selling data.
Doctors can't sell your prescription history, but CVS isn't
a doctor. We still don't have the same basic privacy rules
here. Though I saw that the EU buckled and will now allow
US social media to store EU data in the US. Unfortunate.
There was an interesting report this week: It's illegal to
share personal tax info in the US without written permission.
Three tax filing services have been caught selling that data
via Google and Facebook spying for personalized ads. One
of our few honest senators, Elizabeth Warren, is calling for
action against them. It's an interesting case. On the one hand,
it's a serious crime. On the other hand, Facebook and Google
spy on most people at most websites, collecting and analyzing
to figure out the details of your life. So is it really illegal to
spy on your tax filing in order to show you ads? If any case
can bring a crackdown against spying, it might be this one.
On 2023-07-14 15:37, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-13 20:56, Chris wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out >>>>>>>>>> neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a
country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities >>>>>>> even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Switzerland
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and >>>>>>> the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever.
Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least >>>>>> Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia
are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Theoretically yes but in reality the risks outweigh the benefits by a >>>>> wide margin.
That's not a fact. The reality is that many medical improvements have been >>>> driven by the reuse of patient data.
Absolutely not. Here it is a closed system. It is absolutely forbidden
to use patient data. Serious crime.
Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
You must live in a third world country.
I know brexit hasn't been great, but it's not *that* bad
.. yet ;)
Newyana2 <Newyana2@invalid.nospam> wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
| > Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
|
| Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
|
I expect it's the same in the US. Chris is out to lunch.
Anyone subject to research in the US would be faced with
all sorts of disclaimers and contracts. We have a law known
as HIPAA which prohibits sharing medical data.
It actually *enables* data sharing. By complying with HIPAA an organisation can request and be given sensitive data.
HIPAA is a necessary requirement but isn't as strong in protecting
individual rights as EU regulations like GDPR.
Though my
doctor's portal site has links to Google, and as I recall, the
drugstore chain CVS was caught at one point selling data.
Doctors can't sell your prescription history, but CVS isn't
a doctor. We still don't have the same basic privacy rules
here. Though I saw that the EU buckled and will now allow
US social media to store EU data in the US. Unfortunate.
No it hasn't. Meta, for example, are still being sanctioned and Threads
isn't available in the EU.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.07.23 um 15:40 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.07.23 um 00:15 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises. >>>>>>>Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for >>>>>>> example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before
brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68 >>>>>> million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside.
I already told you. DMP is not what you think it is. All current patient >>>>> records in e.g. hospitals are electronic.
And you do not know what a national EPD is.
Environmental Product Declaration?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_product_declaration
QED.
So you don't know either?
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-14 15:37, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-13 20:56, Chris wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 08:49 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 12.07.23 um 16:44 schrieb AJL:
On 7/12/2023 3:52 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I just noticed this on their [my local TV10 website]. Turns out >>>>>>>>>>> neither card pay nor phone pay may be the future...
<https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/using-your-hand-to-pay-phoenix-area-whole-foods-stores-are-using-the-technology>
No thanks. There's no way I'm allowing shops
Though this example is a one store system I imagine the future will be a
country/world wide system like our current credit cards use.
Nonsense. The resistence will be huge. In our country the authorities >>>>>>>> even are not able to introduce an "Electronic Patient File".
Where's that?
Switzerland
Think about the security implications if such a database is hacked and >>>>>>>> the data is stolen.
That's why highly secure systems are used for patient data.
Americans may do that and accept that but Europeans never ever. >>>>>>>Er, Electronic Health Records very much are a thing in europe. At least >>>>>>> Denmark, France and the UK. Many more I'm sure. I know Estonia and Croatia
are looking at doing it.
The benefits in patient care are huge.
Theoretically yes but in reality the risks outweigh the benefits by a >>>>>> wide margin.
That's not a fact. The reality is that many medical improvements have been
driven by the reuse of patient data.
Absolutely not. Here it is a closed system. It is absolutely forbidden >>>> to use patient data. Serious crime.
Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
That's no different to anywhere else then and not forbidden.
I found this which confirms it: https://iclg.com/practice-areas/digital-health-laws-and-regulations/spain
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
| > Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
|
| Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
|
I expect it's the same in the US. Chris is out to lunch.
Anyone subject to research in the US would be faced with
all sorts of disclaimers and contracts. We have a law known
as HIPAA which prohibits sharing medical data. Though my
doctor's portal site has links to Google, and as I recall, the
drugstore chain CVS was caught at one point selling data.
Doctors can't sell your prescription history, but CVS isn't
a doctor. We still don't have the same basic privacy rules
here. Though I saw that the EU buckled and will now allow
US social media to store EU data in the US. Unfortunate.
There was an interesting report this week: It's illegal to
share personal tax info in the US without written permission.
Three tax filing services have been caught selling that data
via Google and Facebook spying for personalized ads. One
of our few honest senators, Elizabeth Warren, is calling for
action against them. It's an interesting case. On the one hand,
it's a serious crime. On the other hand, Facebook and Google
spy on most people at most websites, collecting and analyzing
to figure out the details of your life. So is it really illegal to
spy on your tax filing in order to show you ads? If any case
can bring a crackdown against spying, it might be this one.
Am 15.07.23 um 11:54 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.07.23 um 15:40 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.07.23 um 00:15 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 13.07.23 um 21:17 schrieb Chris:I already told you. DMP is not what you think it is. All current patient >>>>>> records in e.g. hospitals are electronic.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
By national and EU-law all these attempts are opt-in excercises. >>>>>>>>Nope. Nothing in EU law requiring an opt-in. The UK isn't opt-in, for >>>>>>>> example. I know we're not in the EU anymore, but it was also true before
brexit.
Then tell us why in France exist 4 million files with population 68 >>>>>>> million almost 20 years after the introduction. The UK is outside. >>>>>>
And you do not know what a national EPD is.
Environmental Product Declaration?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_product_declaration
QED.
So you don't know either?
Sometimes you act like little child.
EPD (=Elektronisches Patienten Dossier)
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 15.07.23 um 01:40 schrieb Newyana2:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
| > Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
|
| Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
|
I expect it's the same in the US. Chris is out to lunch.
Anyone subject to research in the US would be faced with
all sorts of disclaimers and contracts. We have a law known
as HIPAA which prohibits sharing medical data. Though my
doctor's portal site has links to Google, and as I recall, the
drugstore chain CVS was caught at one point selling data.
Doctors can't sell your prescription history, but CVS isn't
a doctor. We still don't have the same basic privacy rules
here. Though I saw that the EU buckled and will now allow
US social media to store EU data in the US. Unfortunate.
And the new accord between the EU and the US does not mean what you
imply. And the European Court will stop it anyway. Ursula is doing no
one a favor.
And sharing of medical data of any sort in Europe is forbidden without
the consent of the owner (=patient) even among medical institutions.
Incorrect. Data sharing of medical data is required for routine care. It wouldn't be much good if your GP could not get copies of your hospital
tests. Or if your surgeon couldn't see your medical history.
Am 15.07.23 um 01:40 schrieb Newyana2:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
| > Interesting. How is clinical research performed in Spain, then?
|
| Asking for permission. Or using anonymous data.
|
I expect it's the same in the US. Chris is out to lunch.
Anyone subject to research in the US would be faced with
all sorts of disclaimers and contracts. We have a law known
as HIPAA which prohibits sharing medical data. Though my
doctor's portal site has links to Google, and as I recall, the
drugstore chain CVS was caught at one point selling data.
Doctors can't sell your prescription history, but CVS isn't
a doctor. We still don't have the same basic privacy rules
here. Though I saw that the EU buckled and will now allow
US social media to store EU data in the US. Unfortunate.
And the new accord between the EU and the US does not mean what you
imply. And the European Court will stop it anyway. Ursula is doing no
one a favor.
And sharing of medical data of any sort in Europe is forbidden without
the consent of the owner (=patient) even among medical institutions.
Even anonymised sharing with scientific organisations is only possible
with explicit consent.
Here could be a change imminent.
Having my phone stolen would be a nightmare for a lot of reasons
compared to just having my credit card stolen...
On 7/9/2023 8:35 PM, AJL wrote:
Having my phone stolen would be a nightmare for a lot of reasons
compared to just having my credit card stolen...
I had that fear about traveling overseas for weeks on end but finally >assuaged it by always carrying my last-generation phone in my backpack and >which has all of the required apps installed and on which I can activate
the Google-Fi account quickly and (I hope) reload with all of the relevant >current information from the cloud. Probably my plan is full of holes but
it is a comfort to my little mind...
In message <u8h26n$2hrg3$1@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> writes
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it. I could also do it on any nearby browser. Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity. Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
Comment not specifically aimed at anyone.
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if it was normally like that.
Adrian
On 7/15/23 3:13 PM, Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 8:35 PM, AJL wrote:
Having my phone stolen would be a nightmare for a lot of reasons
compared to just having my credit card stolen...
I had that fear about traveling overseas for weeks on end but finally
assuaged it by always carrying my last-generation phone in my backpack
and which has all of the required apps installed and on which I can
activate the Google-Fi account quickly and (I hope) reload with all of
the relevant current information from the cloud. Probably my plan is
full of holes but it is a comfort to my little mind...
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to
the
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store.
But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a bigger PITA than the card...
Just bought a new toy (Chromebook tablet) so let's see how she works...and transmit...
On Android you can take precautions to protect financial apps from being
used even if the phone is grabbed when navigation is open or when you're >making a call.
You do this my adding a separate Android user with
separate PIN or pattern and use that user account for sensitive stuff. >iPhones are much less secure in this regard since unless you jailbreak
you cannot have multiple accounts on one device.
On 7/15/23 5:09 PM, sms wrote:
On Android you can take precautions to protect financial apps from
being used even if the phone is grabbed when navigation is open or
when you're making a call.
My financial apps are still protected by password even when the phone is unlocked. Not yours?
On 7/15/2023 5:20 PM, AJL wrote:
My financial apps are still protected by password even when the phone is
unlocked. Not yours?
Some are (banking apps). But there are some shopping apps where there is
not a separate password and the payment method is stored.
On 7/15/23 3:13 PM, Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 8:35 PM, AJL wrote:
Having my phone stolen would be a nightmare for a lot of reasons
compared to just having my credit card stolen...
I had that fear about traveling overseas for weeks on end but finally
assuaged it by always carrying my last-generation phone in my backpack
and which has all of the required apps installed and on which I can
activate the Google-Fi account quickly and (I hope) reload with all of
the relevant current information from the cloud. Probably my plan is
full of holes but it is a comfort to my little mind...
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to
the
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store.
But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a bigger PITA than the card...
Just bought a new toy (Chromebook tablet) so let's see how she works...and transmit...
On 7/10/2023 10:15 AM, Adrian wrote:
In message <u8h26n$2hrg3$1@dont-email.me>, AJL <noemail@none.com> writes
On 7/10/2023 4:13 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/9/2023 5:35 PM, AJL wrote:
If my credit card is stolen I can deactivate it immediately using
my phone's bank app.
That is true, as long as your phone isn't stolen too.
Then I just stop by the next nearest phone and manually call to
deactivate it. I could also do it on any nearby browser. Third I'm
covered for any fraudulent credit card activity. Bottom line: there's
not much security difference (for me) whether my credit card's in my
pocket or on my phone...
Comment not specifically aimed at anyone.
I was in my local supermarket this morning, and it was noticeable that
those paying by phone were taking a lot longer than those paying with
contactless plastic cards. I don't know what the problem was, or if
it was normally like that.
Adrian
I have taken to using my phone to pay at the supermarket since they
finally upgraded their terminals. I use Google Wallet to scan my fuel-points/coupons loyalty number so the phone is usually unlocked sufficiently for Google Pay to work when needed. I guess if the checkout
was slow the phone msy go inert and require a new thumbprint but that is quick. Google Pay is near instantaneous here as is the contactless card.
I guess it is a matter of the terminal software and the speed of the connection that would make all of the difference.
On 2023-07-16 01:04, AJL wrote:
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to
the bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the
same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store.
But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a >> bigger PITA than the card...
The card here is mailed, so that can be a few days.
And you need a card to pay the new phone :-p
I don't know about Google Pay specifically, but I used my bank app.
Mine required a login at the time of my testing, so I did that while
I was in the queue. While the cashier is scanning my shopping, I'm
too busy to check my phone, so it could happen that when the time to
pay came, the app had timed out and I had to restart it, and login
again, an slow operation, the app took several long seconds to think
about it. Then when I had to put the phone to the machine, it did
not work perhaps half of the time. I had to fiddle with the
positioning, and sometimes I had to give up and get my card out
instead. So in the end I stopped using the phone for paying.
On 7/15/23 3:13 PM, Bodger wrote:
On 7/9/2023 8:35 PM, AJL wrote:
Having my phone stolen would be a nightmare for a lot of reasons
compared to just having my credit card stolen...
I had that fear about traveling overseas for weeks on end but finally
assuaged it by always carrying my last-generation phone in my backpack
and which has all of the required apps installed and on which I can
activate the Google-Fi account quickly and (I hope) reload with all of
the relevant current information from the cloud. Probably my plan is
full of holes but it is a comfort to my little mind...
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to
the
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store.
But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a bigger PITA than the card...
On 7/15/2023 4:04 PM, AJL wrote:
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to the
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store. But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a bigger PITA than the card...
Not sure what country you're in, but in the U.S. they mail you a
replacement credit card, the bank branches don't have the capability to
issue them.
On 7/15/2023 4:04 PM, AJL wrote:
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute
trip to the bank where they would immediately issue me a new one.
Not sure what country you're in, but in the U.S. they mail you a
replacement credit card, the bank branches don't have the capability
to issue them.
The wife was mailed a new card to replace one that was about to expire.
It turned out to be defective. We took it to our local branch where they replaced it on the spot in about 15 minutes. A new card with a new
number. Unfortunately several thousands of dollars later the wife's new
card is still working...
In article <u91bg2$r2v4$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 7/15/2023 4:04 PM, AJL wrote:
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to >>> the
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the >>> same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store. >>> But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a >>> bigger PITA than the card...
Not sure what country you're in, but in the U.S. they mail you a
replacement credit card, the bank branches don't have the capability to
issue them.
some do, although it's not common. some will provide the new number via
their app and/or website, which can be used for online purchases. all
of them will update apple/google pay, which can then be used for any purchase, online or physical.
On 7/16/23 4:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-16 01:04, AJL wrote:
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose theI stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip
to the
same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store. >>> But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would
definitely be a
bigger PITA than the card...
The card here is mailed, so that can be a few days.
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new card showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank. Then he took us outside to test it in the ATM before sending us on our way.
And you need a card to pay the new phone :-p
1. If I go to my carrier's store they can put the new phone on my bill.
2. If the wife isn't robbed with me I can use her card.
3. Or I could go home and get my debit card which the bank sends me
unwanted and I never carry or use.
Always a way... ;)
Boy, posting on this new tablet is a PITA. Also no spell check like TB.
Hope
I haven't embarrassed myself too much... 8-O
On 2023-07-16 17:06, AJL wrote:
Obtaining cash would be a problem, because the bank insists I use
the box outside to get cash, so I would have to convince them that
the card was stolen, so please allow me to get the money inside.
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to >>> the
bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the
same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store. >>> But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be >>> a
bigger PITA than the card...
Not sure what country you're in, but in the U.S. they mail you a
replacement credit card, the bank branches don't have the capability to
issue them.
some do, although it's not common. some will provide the new number via their app and/or website, which can be used for online purchases. all
of them will update apple/google pay, which can then be used for any purchase, online or physical.
When I renewed my card, I did not check to see if the number was
available on their web site, did not occur to me. However, the card has
to be "activated" on arrival, so I doubt that would work here.
Maybe obtaining a virtual card instead would work.
On 7/16/23 4:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-16 01:04, AJL wrote:
I stay pretty close to home so a lost card would be a ten minute trip to >>> the bank where they would immediately issue me a new one. Course I suppose the
same could be said for a lost phone and a trip to the local phone store. >>> But in my case I'd have to repopulate the phone which would definitely be a >>> bigger PITA than the card...
The card here is mailed, so that can be a few days.
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new card showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/16/23 4:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The card here is mailed, so that can be a few days.
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new card
showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank.
Doesn't exist here (UK) either. Part of the reason to mail it is to confirm >your address as well.
I also take a backup card with me on holiday which stays at the >accommodation.
On 7/16/23 11:28 PM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/16/23 4:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The card here is mailed, so that can be a few days.
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new card
showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank.
Doesn't exist here (UK) either. Part of the reason to mail it is to confirm >> your address as well.
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail
part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
I also take a backup card with me on holiday which stays at the
accommodation.
I take a backup card with me everywhere.
Some places don't take my cashback
card so I have to use the other one. I also carry 100 bucks cash in case
the store system is down. Used to happen more often. Not so much
recently...
On 7/16/23 11:28 PM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/16/23 4:48 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
The card here is mailed, so that can be a few days.
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new card
showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the
bank.
Doesn't exist here (UK) either. Part of the reason to mail it is to
confirm
your address as well.
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail
part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
I also take a backup card with me on holiday which stays at the
accommodation.
I take a backup card with me everywhere. Some places don't take my cashback card so I have to use the other one. I also carry 100 bucks cash in case
the store system is down. Used to happen more often. Not so much
recently...
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail
part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
I take a backup card with me everywhere.
I meant a physical card rather than digital. In my digital wallet I have
four cards.
On 2023-07-17 09:15, AJL wrote:
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail
part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
The card is mailed "inactive", and you need the pin to use it the first
time.
If the card doesn't arrive, ask for another. The first one is then
voided. The bank may try a different mail provider the second time.
You have to activate the cards sent by mail, and they have to be
activated from a phone number that they have on file, or you have to
answer a bunch of security questions that they have on file or provide
your "security word."
I meant a physical card rather than digital. In my digital wallet I have
four cards.
You have to activate the cards sent by mail, and they have to be
activated from a phone number that they have on file, or you have to
answer a bunch of security questions that they have on file or provide
your "security word."
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new
card showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at
the bank. Then he took us outside to test it in the ATM before
sending us on our way
What bank do you [AJL] have that can provide replacement credit cards on the >spot?
I've been to banks that can provide an ATM card on the spot, but
the banks I have all have their vendor ship the cards you.
I take a backup card with me everywhere. Some places don't take my cashback
card so I have to use the other one. I also carry 100 bucks cash in case
the store system is down. Used to happen more often. Not so much
recently...
On 7/17/23 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
What bank do you [AJL] have that can provide replacement credit cards
on the spot?
A little to personal for for Usenet. The story is true.
AJL wrote:
Are you sure? I didn't know about the service until the wife's new
card showed up defective. Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at
the bank. Then he took us outside to test it in the ATM before
sending us on our way
I do know of one UK bank that can open a new account and issue a fully >working chip-n-pin/NFC card on the spot, so probably they can do
replacements the same way ... but I think that's far from the norm,
normally you'd have to wait several days for a card replacement in the post.
On 7/17/2023 8:51 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/17/23 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
What bank do you [AJL] have that can provide replacement credit cards
on the spot?
A little to personal for for Usenet. The story is true.
Wow, we don't know your name, where you live, or any personal data about
you, but you can't reveal the name of a bank.
I think that we all know
what that means.
AJL wrote:
Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank.
Doesn't exist here (UK)
Chris wrote:
AJL wrote:
Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank.
Doesn't exist here (UK)
Metro bank.
On 7/17/23 6:13 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-17 09:15, AJL wrote:
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail
part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
The card is mailed "inactive", and you need the pin to use it the first
time.
If the card doesn't arrive, ask for another. The first one is then
voided. The bank may try a different mail provider the second time.
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having
the old card expire.
Chris wrote:
AJL wrote:
Took about 15 minutes to make the a card at the bank.
Doesn't exist here (UK)
Metro bank.
On 7/17/23 9:06 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/17/2023 8:51 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/17/23 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
What bank do you [AJL] have that can provide replacement credit
cards on the spot?
A little to personal for for Usenet. The story is true.
Wow, we don't know your name, where you live, or any personal data
about you, but you can't reveal the name of a bank.
Yep. I'd rather not be like you with my info openly available.
But it's a local (only) bank. Does that help?
I think that we all know what that means.
Cmon. You can insult better than that. How about this. Youre an asshole.
Your turn... ;)
I had one bank that could issue a new ATM card on the spot, but not a
credit card. The ATM card had no identifying information printed on it,
just the name of the bank. For a credit card they'd have to have the equipment to print your name on a card.
However these days, with contactless NFC, and chip readers, the cashier
never sees your card though the name associated with the card will show
up on the screen.
With Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay, you'd think that the bank could
just supply the new card information and let the user add it, but they
don't do that.
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
Although, it is a piece of information required for online transactions so you'd need something else.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:13 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-17 09:15, AJL wrote:
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail >>>> part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
The card is mailed "inactive", and you need the pin to use it the first
time.
If the card doesn't arrive, ask for another. The first one is then
voided. The bank may try a different mail provider the second time.
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security
violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having
the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
Although, it is a piece of information required for online transactions so you'd need something else.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:13 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-17 09:15, AJL wrote:
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail >>>> part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
The card is mailed "inactive", and you need the pin to use it the first
time.
If the card doesn't arrive, ask for another. The first one is then
voided. The bank may try a different mail provider the second time.
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security
violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having
the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
Although, it is a piece of information required for online transactions so >you'd need something else.
On 7/17/2023 9:43 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/17/23 9:06 AM, sms wrote:
On 7/17/2023 8:51 AM, AJL wrote:
On 7/17/23 7:54 AM, sms wrote:
What bank do you [AJL] have that can provide replacement credit
cards on the spot?
A little to personal for for Usenet. The story is true.
Wow, we don't know your name, where you live, or any personal data
about you, but you can't reveal the name of a bank.
Yep. I'd rather not be like you with my info openly available.
But it's a local (only) bank. Does that help?
I think that we all know what that means.
Cmon. You can insult better than that. How about this. Youre an asshole.
Your turn... ;)
Wow, if you're going to behave like that, at least use proper grammar.
In article <u93ujr$1acgj$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security >> > violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having >> > the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
because extending credit is not forever.
Well, cards are modernized. No magnetic stripe, new chip, no embossed >letters, add NFC... I can see that the chip will be modernized in years
to come.
On 7/17/23 11:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, cards are modernized. No magnetic stripe, new chip, no embossed
letters, add NFC... I can see that the chip will be modernized in years
to come.
Or no card at all, just your hand. Did you see that post? Pretty handy, huh.
Sorry...
Am 17.07.23 um 22:03 schrieb AJL:
On 7/17/23 11:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, cards are modernized. No magnetic stripe, new chip, no embossed
letters, add NFC... I can see that the chip will be modernized in years
to come.
Or no card at all, just your hand. Did you see that post? Pretty handy, huh. >> Sorry...
Never ever!
Those who accept giving away biometric data for such unimportant things
like paying a chocolate bar are stupid idiots.
On 2023-07-17 19:43, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:13 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-17 09:15, AJL wrote:
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail >>>>> part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
The card is mailed "inactive", and you need the pin to use it the first >>>> time.
If the card doesn't arrive, ask for another. The first one is then
voided. The bank may try a different mail provider the second time.
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security >>> violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having >>> the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
Although, it is a piece of information required for online transactions so >> you'd need something else.
Well, cards are modernized. No magnetic stripe, new chip, no embossed letters, add NFC... I can see that the chip will be modernized in years
to come.
On 7/17/23 10:43 AM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/17/23 6:13 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-07-17 09:15, AJL wrote:
Probably the worst security of the whole credit card system is the mail >>>>> part. I'm all the time getting a neighbors mail and visa versa.
The card is mailed "inactive", and you need the pin to use it the first >>>> time.
If the card doesn't arrive, ask for another. The first one is then
voided. The bank may try a different mail provider the second time.
All true. But anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security >>> violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having >>> the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
Although, it is a piece of information required for online transactions so >> you'd need something else.
Currently I do. My cards both have that magic 4 digit number...
On 7/17/23 11:14 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well, cards are modernized. No magnetic stripe, new chip, no embossed
letters, add NFC... I can see that the chip will be modernized in years
to come.
Or no card at all, just your hand. Did you see that post?
Pretty handy, huh.
Sorry...
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
anytime the mail loses any of my bank info it's a security
violation. My solution to cut down on the problem would be to stop having
the old card expire.
It's a fair point. Why do cards expire?
Although, it is a piece of information required for online transactions so >>> you'd need something else.
Currently I do. My cards both have that magic 4 digit number...
I mean on top of that. Transactions need the 16-digit number, the expiry
and the cvv. If there wasn't an expiry you'd need something else. Issue
date, maybe?
Some would say giving biometric data away for any cost is bad.
If you've ever signed up for trial subscriptions that require a credit
card, being able to prevent it from converting to a regular-priced subscription when the trial period is over, is a great feature should
you forget to cancel, or if the company makes it extremely difficult to cancel (i.e. Sirius XM).
Or if you're ordering from a company that
you're unsure about it's good to use a virtual credit card so you can deactivate it after you've made the purchase.
Very few credit cards still have true virtual credit card capability.
The Citibank Doublecash Mastercard still has it.
Why isn't name, number, and cvv enough for online security purposes?
Perhaps
the online merchant wants YOU to know the card is good before ordering. In
a regular store they/you know right away if the card is good...
On 7/11/2023 8:28 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com wrote:
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very
common.
I don't use checks often, but I do to a couple of vendors I use who
don't take credit cards--my wife's hairdresser and our gardener.
I use the most checks for out of town grandkid/greatgrandkid gifts.
Though lately Amazon has taken over some of that with it wrapped gift delivery.
Also my yard guy. Just leave a check under the front doormat.
Most recently a check for $20K + plus my trade in for the new car. I do
still find them useful...
[Late response due to extended absence and plowing through the
EU-battery thread.]
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/11/2023 8:28 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com wrote:
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very
common.
I don't use checks often, but I do to a couple of vendors I use who
don't take credit cards--my wife's hairdresser and our gardener.
I use the most checks for out of town grandkid/greatgrandkid gifts.
Though lately Amazon has taken over some of that with it wrapped gift
delivery.
As you still have checks, you indeed might as well use them for these
kind of cases. We (NL and probably most of the rest of the western
world) would probably use other, mostly electronic, means.
Also my yard guy. Just leave a check under the front doormat.
Doesn't he have a bank account?
Most recently a check for $20K + plus my trade in for the new car. I do
still find them useful...
How quaint, paying a car with a check! The last and only time I did
that was some *55 years* ago! We have had this thing called 'EFT' for
several decades now. "Time to upgrade... ;)"?
If needed, I could pay for a car on the spot with my phone.
How would you pay for a house (or similar expensive item)? Also with a check? I just use(d) 'online banking' from any device/location.
AJL wrote:
We (NL and probably most of the rest of the western world) would
probably use other, mostly electronic, means.
Doesn't he [yard guy] have a bank account?
Most recently a check for $20K + plus my trade in for the new car.
How quaint, paying a car with a check!
We have had this thing called 'EFT'
for several decades now. "Time to upgrade... ;)"?
If needed, I could pay for a car on the spot with my phone.
How would you pay for a house
(or similar expensive item)?
I just use(d) 'online banking' from any device/location.
Apparently putting a car on a CC was a rarity at that dealership.
On 8/5/23 3:32 PM, AJL wrote:
On 8/5/2023 2:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Apparently putting a car on a CC was a rarity at that
dealership.
My dealership would take my credit card but the extra fee involved
was larger than my cashback so that was out...
Nope, and he put the whole thing on the card. Perhaps because it
was the bank and he could see that the funds were there.
On 8/5/2023 2:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Apparently putting a car on a CC was a rarity at that dealership.
My dealership would take my credit card but the extra fee involved was
larger than my cashback so that was out...
How would you pay for a house
[Late response due to extended absence and plowing through the
EU-battery thread.]
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/11/2023 8:28 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com wrote:
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very
common.
I don't use checks often, but I do to a couple of vendors I use who
don't take credit cards--my wife's hairdresser and our gardener.
I use the most checks for out of town grandkid/greatgrandkid gifts.
Though lately Amazon has taken over some of that with it wrapped gift
delivery.
As you still have checks, you indeed might as well use them for these
kind of cases. We (NL and probably most of the rest of the western
world) would probably use other, mostly electronic, means.
Also my yard guy. Just leave a check under the front doormat.
Doesn't he have a bank account?
Most recently a check for $20K + plus my trade in for the new car. I do
still find them useful...
How quaint, paying a car with a check! The last and only time I did
that was some *55 years* ago! We have had this thing called 'EFT' for
several decades now. "Time to upgrade... ;)"?
If needed, I could pay for a car on the spot with my phone.
How would you pay for a house (or similar expensive item)? Also with a check? I just use(d) 'online banking' from any device/location.
On 8/5/23 10:59 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
If needed, I could pay for a car on the spot with my phone.
Only money thing I do with my phone is deposit checks. I have a computer...
On 8/5/2023 10:59 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
AJL wrote:
We (NL and probably most of the rest of the western world) would
probably use other, mostly electronic, means.
We have both checks and electronic methods available. I use whatever is
best for me and/or the situation.
Doesn't he [yard guy] have a bank account?
Of course, otherwise he couldn't cash my check dummy.
Most recently a check for $20K + plus my trade in for the new car.
How quaint, paying a car with a check!
I'm not surprised your quaint little country doesn't have the variety of financial options available to us here in the new world...
We have had this thing called 'EFT'
Yup. Us too.
for several decades now. "Time to upgrade... ;)"?
Nah. 30 seconds to write the check and hand it to anybody anywhere. No
phone, electronics, or wireless required.
If needed, I could pay for a car on the spot with my phone.
Me too. Big Fn deal...
How would you pay for a house
By using whatever method was best for ME. My current house was paid for
with checks in stages as it was being built in 2000.
(or similar expensive item)?
My credit card limit is $35K if they'll let me (cashback).
I just use(d) 'online banking' from any device/location.
Gosh Frank, you are sooooo impressive...
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
[Late response due to extended absence and plowing through the
EU-battery thread.]
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 7/11/2023 8:28 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com wrote:
LOL, sometimes you'll see someone using a check but it's not very
common.
I don't use checks often, but I do to a couple of vendors I use who
don't take credit cards--my wife's hairdresser and our gardener.
I use the most checks for out of town grandkid/greatgrandkid gifts.
Though lately Amazon has taken over some of that with it wrapped gift
delivery.
As you still have checks, you indeed might as well use them for these kind of cases. We (NL and probably most of the rest of the western
world) would probably use other, mostly electronic, means.
You need to remember why there's all these non-back money transfer systems coming out of the US: paypal, wise, apple pay, etc. The US banking system
is horribly fragmented and archaic in many places.
We don't use cheques any more, and haven't done for a long time, because we have simple standard systems in their place.[...]
How would you pay for a house (or similar expensive item)? Also with a check? I just use(d) 'online banking' from any device/location.
Here it's most common to go through a solicitor to make sure all the
payments are coordinated at the same time.
On 8/5/23 3:32 PM, AJL wrote:
On 8/5/2023 2:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Apparently putting a car on a CC was a rarity at that dealership.
My dealership would take my credit card but the extra fee involved was
larger than my cashback so that was out...
Nope, and he put the whole thing on the card. Perhaps because it was
the bank and he could see that the funds were there.
On 8/5/2023 4:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
On 8/5/23 3:32 PM, AJL wrote:
On 8/5/2023 2:28 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
Apparently putting a car on a CC was a rarity at that dealership.
My dealership would take my credit card but the extra fee involved was
larger than my cashback so that was out...
Nope, and he put the whole thing on the card. Perhaps because it was
the bank and he could see that the funds were there.
The last two cars we purchased they would only let us put $5000 on the card.
Since we get 3% cash back, if they had let us put the whole thing on the credit card, even with a 2% fee, we would have done that.
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