The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some
accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real
time or as a post process, is a different question.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at
several towers.
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
a post process, is a different question.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several towers.
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.
I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some
accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real
time or as a post process, is a different question.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at
several towers.
Speculating, but I assume if you're live-streaming via e.g. Facebook,
and the Facebook app has location permission, the cops could just ask Facebook for the guy's location.
Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
they *could* in theory do it.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy,
depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
a post process, is a different question.
It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular individual.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
towers.
No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength information collected by the network.
Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van that tries to replicate a case scenario.
On 07/07/2023 23:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
I don't know whether and, if so, how much information security forces
can obtain in real time from phone companies, which probably varies from nation to nation anyway, but I can outline the general principles, which
are ...
Assuming for the moment ...
* what I believe is the case, but haven't bothered to check when writing
this so am laying myself open to correction by someone more
knowledgeable, that cell-towers do not have directional capability;
* rather unrealistically, that we are talking about a target on an open
plain where the signals are not attenuated or impeded by buildings, etc;
... *IN PRINCIPLE* you should be able to get a pretty accurate idea of a target's location by comparing the signal from 3 cell towers. The
strength of the signal at one tower would tell you that the target is a
given distance from it, so he could be anywhere on a circle of a given
radius with its centre at the tower, two towers would give you the intersection of two circles, so two possible locations, but three should
nail him.
However, back in the real world of different strengths of signal from different makes of phone, high-rise buildings, reflections off surfaces, moving traffic, etc, I suspect it would be a lot more difficult than
that, but, like GPS, the more towers that can see the phone, the more accurate should be the result.
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.
Any context for those of us not hooked into the latest threat?
I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
Any claims that an individual was tracked live *purely* from cell data is utterly bogus. Even post hoc with the advantage of offline analytical tools forensic specialists can't always be sure they can pinpoint a mobile phone.
Notice that if the phone has location disabled, the cellular network
still can locate you, just that instead of asking the phone, it has
to query data collected by the towers (and no GPS).
On 7/8/23 04:35, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Notice that if the phone has location disabled, the cellular network
still can locate you, just that instead of asking the phone, it has to
query data collected by the towers (and no GPS).
Is it possible for a carrier to query the phone's built-in location
services? I would hope not, as that should be something that would
require software running on the phone for this purpose, plus the usual user-provided permissions.
In comp.mobile.android, on Sat, 8 Jul 2023 13:13:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 02:22, John wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
they *could* in theory do it.
RWIW, i never give location permission unless I can think of a good
reason they need to know it. And half of the sites ask, for what
reason I can only guess.... Do they want to be ablle to say "We have
readers in 43 states."
On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago, >>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell >>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there >>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy, >>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as
a post process, is a different question.
It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not
identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular
individual.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several
towers.
No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop >> between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
information collected by the network.
Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van
that tries to replicate a case scenario.
LOL.
By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.
On 2023-07-08 02:22, John wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago, >>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell >>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there >>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some
accuracy, depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real
time or as a post process, is a different question.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at
several towers.
Speculating, but I assume if you're live-streaming via e.g. Facebook,
and the Facebook app has location permission, the cops could just ask
Facebook for the guy's location.
Would Facebook give that up if asked? Would they respond quickly? Do
they actually have the tools to grab somebody's location like that if
it's not attached to a post they've made? I obviously don't know any of
these things for sure, but if you gave Facebook location permissions,
they *could* in theory do it.
Possibly, but I think they simply ask Google, because they store an
history of locations. It takes time, in theory, but depending on local
laws, they need a court order.
On 2023-07-08 10:24, Chris wrote:
micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago,
the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming.
Any context for those of us not hooked into the latest threat?
I
know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell
more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one
cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there
is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
Any claims that an individual was tracked live *purely* from cell data is
utterly bogus. Even post hoc with the advantage of offline analytical tools >> forensic specialists can't always be sure they can pinpoint a mobile phone.
LOL. Ignorant.
<https://www.iiiweb.net/forensic-services/cell-phone-tower-triangulation/>
<https://www.vestigeltd.com/resources/articles/cell-phone-tracking-evidence/>
Cell Phone Tracking Evidence
Vestige Logo
by Larry E. Daniel
DFCB
Cell phone forensics or cellular data analysis is the process of
collecting, analyzing and presenting the approximate location of a cell
phone or other cellular device based on data obtained from the wireless company or in some rare cases, from the device itself.
There are several types of mobile cell phone tracking data that can be collected and examined:
* Carrier based location data is collected by obtaining historical
call detail records for a particular phone from the cellular carrier
along with a listing of the cell tower locations for that carrier. This mobile data is then analyzed for the purpose of generally placing a cell phone in a location on a map.
* Cellular data in the form of “pings”, which is real time geo-location tracking of a cellular phone or other cellular device by activating the emergency 911 system (E911), which will then use either a network based or handset based method for locating the phone and will
provide a location estimate generated via triangulation of the phone
handset.
* Law enforcement may issue a warrant to get real-time call detail activity for a phone. This is the same type of data contained in a
historical call detail record but is provided in real time. Cellular
data may come from the device itself in the form of GPS location data
either from an application running on the phone, a geo-tagged picture or
some other data point.
What is important to understand about tracking a cell phone location or
other cellular device is that the accuracy of the geo-location is
dependent on a number of factors, not the least of which is the ability
of the analyst to properly interpret and present the data and the
methods used to present the information.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago, >>>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I >>>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell >>>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one >>>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there >>>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy, >>>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as >>>> a post process, is a different question.
It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not >>> identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular >>> individual.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several >>>> towers.
No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop >>> between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
information collected by the network.
Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van >>> that tries to replicate a case scenario.
LOL.
By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.
Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The technology is surprisingly basic.
Am 09.07.23 um 02:38 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The >>> technology is surprisingly basic.
And I worked at a Telco.
Mine is bigger than yours!
*SCNR*
On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
technology is surprisingly basic.
And I worked at a Telco.
On 2023-07-08 23:06, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 10:32, Chris wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-07-08 00:28, micky wrote:
The guy who was looking to attack one of the Obamas, a couple days ago, >>>>>> the one who came from Wasthington State.....He was live streaming. I >>>>>> know they know the cell tower(s?) one's connected to, but can they tell >>>>>> more than that, just using information from the cellular company?
There's no directionality or triangulation, is there?
So all they could know from the cell company is that he's within one >>>>>> cell or ....within the intersection of 2 or 3 cells, rigth? So there >>>>>> is still a square mile or more where he could be, right?
The cellular company can find out the exact location with some accuracy, >>>>> depending on the terrain. How fast they can do this, in real time or as >>>>> a post process, is a different question.
It's next to impossible. Cellular data is designed purely for billing not >>>> identification of a particular phone at a particular time by a particular >>>> individual.
They do this by triangulation. They know the signal strength at several >>>>> towers.
No they don't. A phone only ever connects to one cell at a time, it may hop
between different cells during a call, but there's never any strength
information collected by the network.
Any strength information is collected after the fact by a specialised van >>>> that tries to replicate a case scenario.
LOL.
By saying this you have declared yourself as ignorant. It is well known
that the capability to do all that in realtime exists.
Let me know when you've worked with forensic scientists like I have. The
technology is surprisingly basic.
And I worked at a Telco.
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