I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
On 13 Jun 2023 06:45:30 -0700 Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this >>coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What problems do you expect using your Mint service in Rome?
Does Mint not
offer roaming?
Does your phone not have the correct frequency bands?
I've used UK GSM phones on the US T-Mobile network, which used GSM like in >Europe - but it was a few years ago.
You could buy a local SIM but I doubt if you need to, and some countries >make it difficult for foreigners to do so. (I had an Italien SIM and had
to provide my Italian 'codice fiscale' - tax code!)
make it difficult for foreigners to do so. (I had an Italien SIM and had
to provide my Italian 'codice fiscale' - tax code!)
On 13.6.23 2:45 pm, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
This link has a pretty comprehensive breakdown of how to get the best
card for your purpose.
https://tinyurl.com/26uyvqjp
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
On Jun 13, 2023, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<news:4fsg8itvoobvg85chikf51v929cmlll7dh@4ax.com>):
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
I know next to nothing about it. Can I make calls with it? On my
Android phone?
On Jun 13, 2023, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<news:pmch8i5mh9sc3jju6fo590u5a1485f383b@4ax.com>):
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
I know next to nothing about it. Can I make calls with it? On my
Android phone?
Google Voice has long been a topic on this newsgroup a thousand times.
So it shouldn't be the first time you've heard of it if you've been here.
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere. https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
That includes phone calls to and from normal landline numbers too!
You get a phone number with Google Voice but you can have it ring any
number of phone numbers, and it can transcribe voice mail to your email.
The app is available on all the consumer platforms as far as I know. https://voice.google.com/about
Europe calls are about 2 cents a minute so that's what it should cost you.
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
make it difficult for foreigners to do so. (I had an Italien SIM and had
to provide my Italian 'codice fiscale' - tax code!)
There's a website that will generate you an official codice fiscale with
some basic details: I got one to sign up to an Italian VOIP server despite >never having been to, or having any connection with, Italy.
Theo
On Jun 13, 2023, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<news:4fsg8itvoobvg85chikf51v929cmlll7dh@4ax.com>):
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 10:28:09 -0800, RonTheGuy <ron@null.invalid>
wrote:
On Jun 13, 2023, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<news:pmch8i5mh9sc3jju6fo590u5a1485f383b@4ax.com>):
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
I know next to nothing about it. Can I make calls with it? On my
Android phone?
Google Voice has long been a topic on this newsgroup a thousand times.
So it shouldn't be the first time you've heard of it if you've been here.
Yes, I've heard of it, here and elsewhere. But since I was never
interested, I didn't pay much attention to it.
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere. >https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
Calls to anywhere in the US, but not to numbers in Italy? If that's
the case, I don't think it's what I want. I may want to do things like
call a taxi while I'm there.
That includes phone calls to and from normal landline numbers too!
You get a phone number with Google Voice but you can have it ring any >number of phone numbers, and it can transcribe voice mail to your email.
The app is available on all the consumer platforms as far as I know. >https://voice.google.com/about
Europe calls are about 2 cents a minute so that's what it should cost you.
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On Jun 13, 2023, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<news:pmch8i5mh9sc3jju6fo590u5a1485f383b@4ax.com>):
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
I know next to nothing about it. Can I make calls with it? On my
Android phone?
Google Voice has long been a topic on this newsgroup a thousand times.
So it shouldn't be the first time you've heard of it if you've been here.
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere. >https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
That includes phone calls to and from normal landline numbers too!
You get a phone number with Google Voice but you can have it ring any
number of phone numbers, and it can transcribe voice mail to your email.
The app is available on all the consumer platforms as far as I know. >https://voice.google.com/about
Europe calls are about 2 cents a minute so that's what it should cost you.
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
On Jun 13, 2023, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<news:pmch8i5mh9sc3jju6fo590u5a1485f383b@4ax.com>):
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
I know next to nothing about it. Can I make calls with it? On my
Android phone?
Google Voice has long been a topic on this newsgroup a thousand times.
So it shouldn't be the first time you've heard of it if you've been here.
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere. https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
I had SIMs from all over Europe when that was the only way to get
affordable data in usable amounts: eg €3 per month for 40MB (not GB) in Greece. I used four of those SIMs in rotation.
It's all much easier now with standard roaming tariffs across the EU. I
still have a German SIM but the rest have all expired.
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the
United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere.
https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
But not in Europe AFAIK.
I read it as *free* calls to anywhere in the US and *cheap* (2ct/min)
calls in Europ
On Jun 13, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
(in article<news:u6ajgn$19lqi$2@solani.org>):
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >>> United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere.
https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
But not in Europe AFAIK.
This was discussed many times so you must have missed it in the past.
You get the Google Voice while you're in the USA.>
You use it a few times to call internationally.
So you can set up the payment plan (for the 2 cents/minute).
On Jun 13, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
(in article<news:u6ajgn$19lqi$2@solani.org>):
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >>> United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere.
https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
But not in Europe AFAIK.
This was discussed many times so you must have missed it in the past.
You get the Google Voice while you're in the USA.
You use it a few times to call internationally.
So you can set up the payment plan (for the 2 cents/minute).
Then you take the device abroad.
And you use it on Wi-Fi or cellular while you're abroad.
This is all a repeat of what was posted many times here so I'm done.
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Ken Blake wrote:
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What about Google Voice?
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
Am 13.06.23 um 22:36 schrieb RonTheGuy:
On Jun 13, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
(in article<news:u6ajgn$19lqi$2@solani.org>):
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >>>> United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere. >>>> https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
But not in Europe AFAIK.
This was discussed many times so you must have missed it in the past.
You get the Google Voice while you're in the USA.>
You use it a few times to call internationally.
So you can set up the payment plan (for the 2 cents/minute).
Not needed at all. My mobile plan costs me $45 a month and I have
everything full flat in Canada, USA, US overseas territories, Mexico,
and of course all of Europe. Google voice is absolutely redundant in Europe.
On Jun 13, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote.............................**********
(in article<news:u6ajgn$19lqi$2@solani.org>):
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >>> United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere.
https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
But not in Europe AFAIK.
This was discussed many times so you must have missed it in the past.
You get the Google Voice while you're in the USA.
You use it a few times to call internationally.
So you can set up the payment plan (for the 2 cents/minute).
Then you take the device abroad.
And you use it on Wi-Fi or cellular while you're abroad.
On 13 Jun 2023 06:45:30 -0700 Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What problems do you expect using your Mint service in Rome?
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
Not needed at all. My mobile plan costs me $45 a month and I have
everything full flat in Canada, USA, US overseas territories, Mexico,
and of course all of Europe. Google voice is absolutely redundant in Europe.
I do not want Google to know to whom I'm talking and when.
And even more so all my contacts can reach me under the mobile number
they already have for many many years.
IMHO Google is a p..ce of sh.t.
The answer is that you have to ask your provider, what is the cost for
having data on the destination country. If this is expensive, you need a local SIM on the destination (or from another EU country).
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
On 6/13/2023 2:38 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
The answer is that you have to ask your provider, what is the cost for
having data on the destination country. If this is expensive, you need a
local SIM on the destination (or from another EU country).
No need to ask, Mint does not have any domestic or international roaming.
On 13.06.23 23:06, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Not needed at all. My mobile plan costs me $45 a month and I have
everything full flat in Canada, USA, US overseas territories, Mexico,
and of course all of Europe. Google voice is absolutely redundant in Europe.
I do not want Google to know to whom I'm talking and when.
And even more so all my contacts can reach me under the mobile number
they already have for many many years.
IMHO Google is a p..ce of sh.t.
Do you use YouTube or Chrome or the GMail app?
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
On 2023-06-13 22:36, RonTheGuy wrote:
On Jun 13, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote.............................**********
(in article<news:u6ajgn$19lqi$2@solani.org>):
Google Voice is a free app that makes free phone calls to anywhere in the >>>> United States and it receives free phone calls from anywhere anywhere. >>>> https://support.google.com/voice/answer/115061
But not in Europe AFAIK.
This was discussed many times so you must have missed it in the past.
You get the Google Voice while you're in the USA.
You use it a few times to call internationally.
So you can set up the payment plan (for the 2 cents/minute).
Then you take the device abroad.
And you use it on Wi-Fi or cellular while you're abroad.
And where do you get that cellular from? Because that is the main problem.
The answer is that you have to ask your provider, what is the cost for
having data on the destination country. If this is expensive, you need a local SIM on the destination (or from another EU country).
If your answer is "use a free WiFi", that is totally unreliable if you
need a taxi.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Youtube only without login and with Adblocker.
Btw: There are alternatives.
Chrome? Not for money even not on my Pixel. Even not Chromium which is
only pro forma FOSS.
Gmail? Are you serious?
With NoScript I keep Google and all its "services" out of my life.
Google cannot send me ads or track me in the internet.
*Google is evil*
On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:39:14 -0000 (UTC), Dave
Royal<dave@dave123royal.com> wrote:
Does Mint not
offer roaming?
Yes, they do, and after I sent the message, I checked their web site
and bought $10 worth. So it's probably OK.
Does your phone not have the correct frequency bands?
I had assume it did, but I don't know for sure.
On 14.06.23 1:24, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
Youtube only without login and with Adblocker.
Whoosh. I didn't say in a browser. I said YouTube. The app.
Btw: There are alternatives.
That was my point. If you're not using the alternatives, then EVERYTHING
you said about Google was worthless because you don't follow your advice.
Chrome? Not for money even not on my Pixel. Even not Chromium which is
only pro forma FOSS.
What browser do you use?
Gmail? Are you serious?
What MUA do you use?
With NoScript I keep Google and all its "services" out of my life.
Google cannot send me ads or track me in the internet.
You seem to believe EVERYTHING is a browser. It's not.
*Google is evil*
And yet you use it. And you don't even realize that you are using it.
You think everything is a browser. You think adblock will save you.
On 6/13/2023 7:39 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
On 13 Jun 2023 06:45:30 -0700 Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What problems do you expect using your Mint service in Rome?
I suspect it's because Mint doesn't offer any domestic or international roaming.
On 6/13/2023 6:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
I was in Italy pre-pandemic and pre-BREXIT and I used a UK Vodafone SIM
card that was a good deal, €1 per 500MB plus calling and texting in the
EU and EEA. I activated it in the U.S.. But Vodafone UK wrecked that
plan after BREXIT.
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling >> US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that less
than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their smartphones?
Skype would be much more helpful.
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling >> US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Skype would be much more helpful. Skype can reach all phone numbers
around the globe. But it does not solve the issue of mobile connections.
On 2023-06-14 03:03, sms wrote:
On 6/13/2023 6:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
I was in Italy pre-pandemic and pre-BREXIT and I used a UK Vodafone SIM
card that was a good deal, 1 per 500MB plus calling and texting in the
EU and EEA. I activated it in the U.S.. But Vodafone UK wrecked that
plan after BREXIT.
I had visitors last year in Spain, and they bought a prepaid Vodafone
card I did not know about. I don't remember the details, but maybe 50, unlimited data, unlimited calls, for a month.
They had to call their flight company office at the other side of the Atlantic, several very long phone calls, which to me would have been expensive, were free to them.
They found the card while walking the side streets of Barcelona, at a
small shop that sold cards mostly to immigrants and foreigners (it
helped that my visitors speak Spanish) :-D
I was trying to find a suitable card on Internet, but my cousin beat me
to it just strolling and getting lost on the streets :-D
For paper work, I think they needed some ID like a driving license or passport.
I suppose Italy is similar, but I do not know.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling >>> US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it. >>
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Wondering where you got that statistic. According to online sources,
there are 59.11 million Italians. According to WhatsApp stats, there
are 35.5 million users. Comes to 60.1%. Geez, you were spot on.
On 6/13/2023 7:39 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
On 13 Jun 2023 06:45:30 -0700 Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What problems do you expect using your Mint service in Rome?
I suspect it's because Mint doesn't offer any domestic or international >roaming.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling >>> US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it. >>
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Wondering where you got that statistic. According to online sources,
there are 59.11 million Italians. According to WhatsApp stats, there
are 35.5 million users. Comes to 60.1%. Geez, you were spot on.
Still, that's better market penetration than, say, India (390.1 million
users / 1.408 billion population = 27.7%), or the USA (75.1 million
users / 331.9 million population = 22.6%).
Skype would be much more helpful. Skype can reach all phone numbers
around the globe. But it does not solve the issue of mobile connections.
You have to buy Skype-Out minutes. Then your Skype account can not only connect to other Skype users (which is free), but also to any type of
phones (landline, mobile), but mobile coverage is more limited. They
used be called Skype-In and Skype-Out minutes, but it looks like they've
been merged and just called Skype Minutes.
With an MS 365 subscription, and after activation of your Skype account,
you get 60 Skype-Out minutes per month. They do not roll over if not
used. It's one of those perks you get with an MS 365 subscription, like
the 1 TB of online storage at Onedrive. I didn't know anyone using
Skype for the free chat connect, but I did (maybe 2 times in a year) use Skype to call phone numbers in over 60 countries.
https://go.skype.com/office365/
They want me to subscribe before they'll show me the list. A poster
said the following countries are covered:
Landlines and mobile phones: Canada, China, Guam, Hong Kong SAR, Japan, Puerto Rico, Singapore, Thailand, and the United States.
Landlines only: Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Croatia, Colombia (excl. Lex), Costa
Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany,
Greece, Guadeloupe, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia (Jakarta), Ireland,
Israel, *Italy*, Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay,
Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South
Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, United Kingdom, and Venezuela.
I did find:
https://secure.skype.com/en/international-calls
You'd have to see the rates to know how fast you'd consume your Skype Minutes. Skype minutes are not included with Office 365 in Algeria,
Bahrain, China, Egypt, India, Korea, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Namibia, Pakistan, Qatar, Taiwan, Tunisia, and United Arab Emirates.
The OP lives in the USA, so 60 min/mo would be included if he purchased
or already had an MS 365 subscription with a USA license. Special,
premium, and non-geographic numbers are not covered by Skype minutes,
but I haven't found a list of just what are those type of phone numbers. Skype has limited emergency calling capabilities depending on your
country (where you would be requesting those services). As far as I can determine, "limited" means just in the USA: go into your Skype account,
click on your photo icon (account), select Settings, Privacy, and turn
on 911 emergency location sharing. The device on which you run the
Skype app my support an API for location sharing; else, your location
won't be available to the emergency services operator.
You don't have to pay Microsoft's high yearly subscription cost to get
an MS 365 (and an MS account) to get Skype. There are plenty of eBay
and other sellers that will set it for cheap. With Buyer Protection
from eBay, if what they sell you is invalid or pirated, you get your
money back. One time I got an unrequested refund despite the license
was working for close to a year. eBay found the seller was splitting
out license from a volume license, killed their account, and issued
refunds. I still bought another license from a different seller who was willing to send me the registration codes for the 5 license cards I
bought as soon as he got payment, so I could immediately validate the
cards after the purchase instead of waiting for the cards to arrive via postal mail. As I registered each card at Microsoft, another year got
added to the subscription, so I got 5 years total. I didn't renew after
it expired. The cost per card, at that time, was $33/card.
There are cheaper solutions to what the OP wants, but if he already has
an MS/Office 365 subscription then he already gets 60 Skype minutes per month.
For "calling" friends or family, and if you can convince them to install
the same chat app, I'd look into using WhatsApp, or other chat clients.
Those are free "calls" (chats) between matching chat clients. Yeah, I
can't see using them for making phone calls, like to get a taxi, contact
a restaurant, or other telephony-based services. Some service have integrated their dispatch system with WhatsApp, like Uber; see:
https://www.livemint.com/technology/tech-news/how-to-book-a-uber-ride-via-whatsapp-a-step-by-step-guide-11672114596340.html
However, users commenting on using Uber in Italy note that only the Uber Black service tier is available (higher ride rates) making it more
expensive than using taxis, and only available in Rome and Milano.
https://trengo.com/blog/whatsapp-business-statistics
There are WhatsApp Business app users. There are 50 million (perhaps
more now) businesses that use WhatsApp. Apparently there is a Business Catalog a business can create that WhatsApp users can view to shop for products and contact the business. I've never used WhatsApp to know how
this shit works. In effect, it looks like WhatsApp Business catalogs
are like a mini-Web using the WhatsApp app instead of a web browser.
https://sproutsocial.com/insights/how-to-use-whatsapp-for-business/
I figure if there is an audience, businesses will find them using
whatever venue can reach that audience. Used to be a telephone book, newspaper, and TV, then the Web, and now WhatsApp Business is happening,
too. I have no idea how many business operate over WhatsApp, or which
would be available in Italy (in whatever part of it the OP is at the
time).
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this >>>>> coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a. >>>>>
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling
US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Wondering where you got that statistic. According to online sources,
there are 59.11 million Italians. According to WhatsApp stats, there
are 35.5 million users. Comes to 60.1%. Geez, you were spot on.
Except the 59m Italians includes many people without smartphones including the very young and very old plus others who don't do smartphones. Of smartphones the percentage will be higher with WA.
98% here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311590/top-messaging-platform-usage-italy/
96% https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/whatsapp-users-by-country
<87% but similar absolute numbers as above https://www.verint.com/blog/what-countries-are-the-biggest-whatsapp-users/
On Jun 13, 2023, Frank Slootweg wrote
(in article<news:u6anfd.vms.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>):
I read it as *free* calls to anywhere in the US and *cheap* (2ct/min)
calls in Europ
Yes. GV is free calls to anywhere in the USA & cheap calls overseas. >https://toomanyadapters.com/google-voice-travel/
That's why it's the number one choice of expats, I'm told. >https://www.instarem.com/blog/google-voice-expat/
When I call people in Europe, it costs me about 2 cents a minute.
Mostly I call France and the UK but Italy should be the same. >https://www.openphone.com/blog/google-voice-international-calls/
Lots of people say that Google Voice is the best option abroad. >https://mafrenchlife.com/google-voice-abroad/
Ron, the humblest guy in town.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
https://www.mintmobile.com/features/international-roaming/
(looks like you already checked this out)
If you're only going to make calls to friends and family, maybe you
could convince them to get the same chat client (WhatsApp, WeChat, mIRC, >Skype, etc).
Wherever or however you get an Internet connection, like a
wifi connect to your smartphone, you could use the chat client. If you
can't get a wifi connect on your phone for Internet access, you need a >cellular carrier to use their data service.
Google Voice is also usable from their web site, or using the GV app on
your smartphone, but you'll need Internet access (wifi, cellular data),
and likely a headset for speakers and microphone unless you're toting
around your own computer with those. Wherever you are staying might
offer Internet service (at a cost, or included in the room rate).
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-14 03:03, sms wrote:
On 6/13/2023 6:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
I was in Italy pre-pandemic and pre-BREXIT and I used a UK Vodafone SIM >>> card that was a good deal, 1 per 500MB plus calling and texting in the >>> EU and EEA. I activated it in the U.S.. But Vodafone UK wrecked that
plan after BREXIT.
I had visitors last year in Spain, and they bought a prepaid Vodafone
card I did not know about. I don't remember the details, but maybe 50,
unlimited data, unlimited calls, for a month.
They had to call their flight company office at the other side of the
Atlantic, several very long phone calls, which to me would have been
expensive, were free to them.
They found the card while walking the side streets of Barcelona, at a
small shop that sold cards mostly to immigrants and foreigners (it
helped that my visitors speak Spanish) :-D
I was trying to find a suitable card on Internet, but my cousin beat me
to it just strolling and getting lost on the streets :-D
For paper work, I think they needed some ID like a driving license or
passport.
I suppose Italy is similar, but I do not know.
https://www.phonetravelwiz.com/vodafone-italy-review/
Mentions the bands that the phone must support for Vodafone Italy.
But the data quota is limited, like 10 to 100 GB - which is a lot if you >don't generate high bandwidth traffic, like watching videos.
Regarding maps (should the OP want some for Italy, or elsewhere) ...
I don't know how fast an interactive (on-demand) map app would eat data >quota, but you could get a map app that uses offline map databases, like
Here [WeGo] (https://play.google.com/store/search?q=here%20we%20go, >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_WeGo). Instead of downloading every
map of every country, you can download maps for just the country,
region, state, or city you plan on visiting. Obviously you install the
app and download them before your trip since you'll likely have better
quota or unlimited for cellular data, or can use a wifi connect, like at >home, to get Internet access. I have mine set to download only when my
phone has a wifi connection. For Italy, it's 1.3 GB for all of Italy,
but you can download just a region which range from 96MB to 358MB. I
could store the maps for just my home state (422MB), and another to
where I vacation (534MB), or all states in the USA (9GB). I chose to >download maps for all of USA, Canada, and Mexico (11GB total). I store
the maps on the 128GB SD card.
In the past, you could pick several maps to get downloads, but now they
only let you download one at a time, so you have to wait until download >completion of a map before you can download another. Has an option to
work with Android Auto. You can create a Here WeGo account for more
features (save favorites under Collections, create shortcuts, sync with
Here WeGo Web), but I don't need those, so I didn't create an account.
Here WeGo doesn't have all the features of Google Maps, like showing
POIs (Points of Interest), but you can download far larger maps than
what Google Maps will allow, and POIs disappear in offline maps for
Google Maps, anyway.
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling >> US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that less
than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their smartphones?
Skype would be much more helpful. Skype can reach all phone numbers
around the globe. But it does not solve the issue of mobile connections.
If the OP wants to be always reachable there is no way around a mobile >service and preferably under his usual number.
On 6/13/2023 6:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
BTW, if you're on your own
and not on a group tour (hopefully) then
you'll end up using quite a bit of data.
The Moovit app is great for
Italy.
Also the Google Translate App with Lens is amazing in translating
things like menus.
I used around 500MB per day in Italy and sometimes I
had to pay another 1 for 500MB more.
We were on our own for much of the trip though for four days we were >visiting my city's sister city and we were taken around in a bus. Even
then I was using a lot of data because some others on the trip were >hot-spotting in because they had slow T-Mobile international roaming
data (included by mostly unusable).
With the card already in the phone when we landed in Milan we had
service right away which was helpful in navigating to our AirBNB using
the train from the airport. I would do the same again even though buying
a SIM in advance is not the least expensive way to go. Just don't buy a
SIM in the airport (or change money there!).
Note that Apple Pay and Google Pay are widely used in Italy. I used very >little cash when I was there. Even the pay toilets took Apple Pay and
Google Pay.
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there is
no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there is
no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
Actually, the card I recommended earlier appears to not include voice
and SMS outside of Spain, so forget that earlier advice.
Data-only cards are a lot easier for the carriers since there is no
identity verification necessary.
They do. See the message where I said I bought some.
On 2023-06-14, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Actually, the card I recommended earlier appears to not include voice
and SMS outside of Spain, so forget that earlier advice.
Assuming the OP's phone is carrier unlocked, of the big three USA carriers, at least one has a no-contract service which has free world wide roaming.
The OP could get a one-month service with free roaming with all the bells & whistles for International calling & data - then drop it upon returning.
On 2023-06-14 22:01, sms wrote:
...
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there
is no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt
for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs
available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
The recommended procedure then is to move the USA provider to an eSIM
before leaving, and free the SIM slot.
On 2023-06-14, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there
is no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt
for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs
available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
Why is it, do you think, Apple removed the SIM slot?
Normally Apple's main objective is to control what you can do.
Is that why Apple removed it?
Or is there some benefit a phone without a SIM has over an exact same phone with the same eSIM but which also has a slot for a SIM for when you want?
Actually, the card I recommended earlier appears to not include voice
and SMS outside of Spain, so forget that earlier advice.
Data-only cards are a lot easier for the carriers since there is no
identity verification necessary.
I had visitors last year in Spain, and they bought a prepaid Vodafone
card I did not know about. I don't remember the details, but maybe 50€, unlimited data, unlimited calls, for a month.
They had to call their flight company office at the other side of the Atlantic, several very long phone calls, which to me would have been expensive, were free to them.
They found the card while walking the side streets of Barcelona, at a
small shop that sold cards mostly to immigrants and foreigners (it
helped that my visitors speak Spanish) :-D
I was trying to find a suitable card on Internet, but my cousin beat me
to it just strolling and getting lost on the streets :-D
For paper work, I think they needed some ID like a driving license or passport.
I suppose Italy is similar, but I do not know.
On 6/14/2023 1:33 PM, Incubus wrote:
On 2023-06-14, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there
is no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt
for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs
available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
Why is it, do you think, Apple removed the SIM slot?
Normally Apple's main objective is to control what you can do.
Is that why Apple removed it?
Or is there some benefit a phone without a SIM has over an exact same phone >> with the same eSIM but which also has a slot for a SIM for when you want?
The U.S. carriers want subscribers to use international roaming because
it's very expensive. It's the same reason why Android devices sold in
the U.S. often have only one SIM slot while the same model sold in
Europe and Asia have two physical SIM slots.
You do get two eSIM "slots" on the U.S. iPhone 14.
The guy who replaced my phone battery also dealt in a number of cell
services that I'd never heard of. He said I had the cheapest one
already ($10/year) but if I ever decided to switch he had lots of good
ones to choose from. Presumably small cellphone shops which offer cheap service are common.
On 6/14/2023 2:50 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
<snip>
The guy who replaced my phone battery also dealt in a number of cell
services that I'd never heard of. He said I had the cheapest one
already ($10/year) but if I ever decided to switch he had lots of good
ones to choose from. Presumably small cellphone shops which offer cheap
service are common.
I walked by a small cell shop, attached to a Chinese supermarket last
night. They had signs in the window promoting some of those lesser known
MVNO plans. The reality is that while they are less expensive than
postpaid on AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon , they are no bargain.
One was Lyca (T-Mobile in the U.S.): $19/2GB, $29/6GB, $33 for 9GB. One
was Ultra (T-Mobile): $19/2GB. They don't offer the really good deals,
on good networks (AT&T or Verizon) like MobileX, Visible, or U.S.
Mobile, because none of these sell through retail stores.
It's the same with Mint, which has very poor U.S. coverage and is more expensive than MVNOs that use AT&T or Verizon. But they do a huge amount
of advertising that appeals to those subscribers that don't do much
research. $15/month for 5GB of data is not some amazing deal.
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this >>>>> coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a. >>>>>
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling
US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Wondering where you got that statistic. According to online sources,
there are 59.11 million Italians. According to WhatsApp stats, there
are 35.5 million users. Comes to 60.1%. Geez, you were spot on.
Except the 59m Italians includes many people without smartphones including the very young and very old plus others who don't do smartphones. Of smartphones the percentage will be higher with WA.
98% here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311590/top-messaging-platform-usage-italy/
96% https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/whatsapp-users-by-country
<87% but similar absolute numbers as above https://www.verint.com/blog/what-countries-are-the-biggest-whatsapp-users/
Am 14.06.23 um 15:18 schrieb VanguardLH:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this >>>>> coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a. >>>>>
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling
US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Wondering where you got that statistic. According to online sources,
there are 59.11 million Italians. According to WhatsApp stats, there
are 35.5 million users. Comes to 60.1%. Geez, you were spot on.
Still, that's better market penetration than, say, India (390.1 million
users / 1.408 billion population = 27.7%), or the USA (75.1 million
users / 331.9 million population = 22.6%).
Skype would be much more helpful. Skype can reach all phone numbers
around the globe. But it does not solve the issue of mobile connections.
You have to buy Skype-Out minutes. Then your Skype account can not only
connect to other Skype users (which is free), but also to any type of
phones (landline, mobile), but mobile coverage is more limited. They
used be called Skype-In and Skype-Out minutes, but it looks like they've
been merged and just called Skype Minutes.
With an MS 365 subscription, and after activation of your Skype account,
you get 60 Skype-Out minutes per month. They do not roll over if not
used. It's one of those perks you get with an MS 365 subscription, like
the 1 TB of online storage at Onedrive. I didn't know anyone using
Skype for the free chat connect, but I did (maybe 2 times in a year) use
Skype to call phone numbers in over 60 countries.
https://go.skype.com/office365/
They want me to subscribe before they'll show me the list. A poster
said the following countries are covered:
Landlines and mobile phones: Canada, China, Guam, Hong Kong SAR, Japan,
Puerto Rico, Singapore, Thailand, and the United States.
Landlines only: Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil,
Brunei, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Croatia, Colombia (excl. Lex), Costa
Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany,
Greece, Guadeloupe, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia (Jakarta), Ireland,
Israel, *Italy*, Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Malta,
Mexico, Morocco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay,
Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South
Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Turkey, United Kingdom, and
Venezuela.
I did find:
https://secure.skype.com/en/international-calls
You'd have to see the rates to know how fast you'd consume your Skype
Minutes. Skype minutes are not included with Office 365 in Algeria,
Bahrain, China, Egypt, India, Korea, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco,
Namibia, Pakistan, Qatar, Taiwan, Tunisia, and United Arab Emirates.
The OP lives in the USA, so 60 min/mo would be included if he purchased
or already had an MS 365 subscription with a USA license. Special,
premium, and non-geographic numbers are not covered by Skype minutes,
but I haven't found a list of just what are those type of phone numbers.
Skype has limited emergency calling capabilities depending on your
country (where you would be requesting those services). As far as I can
determine, "limited" means just in the USA: go into your Skype account,
click on your photo icon (account), select Settings, Privacy, and turn
on 911 emergency location sharing. The device on which you run the
Skype app my support an API for location sharing; else, your location
won't be available to the emergency services operator.
You don't have to pay Microsoft's high yearly subscription cost to get
an MS 365 (and an MS account) to get Skype. There are plenty of eBay
and other sellers that will set it for cheap. With Buyer Protection
from eBay, if what they sell you is invalid or pirated, you get your
money back. One time I got an unrequested refund despite the license
was working for close to a year. eBay found the seller was splitting
out license from a volume license, killed their account, and issued
refunds. I still bought another license from a different seller who was
willing to send me the registration codes for the 5 license cards I
bought as soon as he got payment, so I could immediately validate the
cards after the purchase instead of waiting for the cards to arrive via
postal mail. As I registered each card at Microsoft, another year got
added to the subscription, so I got 5 years total. I didn't renew after
it expired. The cost per card, at that time, was $33/card.
There are cheaper solutions to what the OP wants, but if he already has
an MS/Office 365 subscription then he already gets 60 Skype minutes per
month.
For "calling" friends or family, and if you can convince them to install
the same chat app, I'd look into using WhatsApp, or other chat clients.
Those are free "calls" (chats) between matching chat clients. Yeah, I
can't see using them for making phone calls, like to get a taxi, contact
a restaurant, or other telephony-based services. Some service have
integrated their dispatch system with WhatsApp, like Uber; see:
https://www.livemint.com/technology/tech-news/how-to-book-a-uber-ride-via-whatsapp-a-step-by-step-guide-11672114596340.html
However, users commenting on using Uber in Italy note that only the Uber
Black service tier is available (higher ride rates) making it more
expensive than using taxis, and only available in Rome and Milano.
https://trengo.com/blog/whatsapp-business-statistics
There are WhatsApp Business app users. There are 50 million (perhaps
more now) businesses that use WhatsApp. Apparently there is a Business
Catalog a business can create that WhatsApp users can view to shop for
products and contact the business. I've never used WhatsApp to know how
this shit works. In effect, it looks like WhatsApp Business catalogs
are like a mini-Web using the WhatsApp app instead of a web browser.
https://sproutsocial.com/insights/how-to-use-whatsapp-for-business/
I figure if there is an audience, businesses will find them using
whatever venue can reach that audience. Used to be a telephone book,
newspaper, and TV, then the Web, and now WhatsApp Business is happening,
too. I have no idea how many business operate over WhatsApp, or which
would be available in Italy (in whatever part of it the OP is at the
time).
You do not believe that I read such lengthy nonsense, do you?
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 14.06.23 um 08:44 schrieb Chris:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this >>>>> coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a. >>>>>
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
What's your most likely use case? Calling local numbers in italy or calling
US numbers? If the former, use whatsapp as pretty much ask italians use it.
Nonsense. How do you call a taxi with such a kindergarten-tool that
less than 60% of the Italian smartphone users have on their
smartphones?
Wondering where you got that statistic. According to online sources,
there are 59.11 million Italians. According to WhatsApp stats, there
are 35.5 million users. Comes to 60.1%. Geez, you were spot on.
Except the 59m Italians includes many people without smartphones including the very young and very old plus others who don't do smartphones. Of smartphones the percentage will be higher with WA.
98% here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311590/top-messaging-platform-usage-italy/
96% https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/whatsapp-users-by-country
<87% but similar absolute numbers as above https://www.verint.com/blog/what-countries-are-the-biggest-whatsapp-users/
On Wed, 14 Jun 2023 14:01:47 -0700, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:
On 6/14/2023 1:33 PM, Incubus wrote:
On 2023-06-14, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:The U.S. carriers want subscribers to use international roaming because >>it's very expensive. It's the same reason why Android devices sold in
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there
is no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt
for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs
available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
Why is it, do you think, Apple removed the SIM slot?
Normally Apple's main objective is to control what you can do.
Is that why Apple removed it?
Or is there some benefit a phone without a SIM has over an exact same phone >>> with the same eSIM but which also has a slot for a SIM for when you want? >>
the U.S. often have only one SIM slot while the same model sold in
Europe and Asia have two physical SIM slots.
You do get two eSIM "slots" on the U.S. iPhone 14.
...and in every Pixel starting with the 4a
Data-only cards are a lot easier for the carriers since there is no
identity verification necessary.
sms wrote:
Data-only cards are a lot easier for the carriers since there is no
identity verification necessary.
Really? That's interesting. Any idea why not?
I had been buying PAYG SIMs around Europe for some years before the requirement for foreigners to present ID was introduced. It was
mainly the result of the Madrid train bombings - though phones had
been used to set off bombs before that. It was a PITA if, like me,
you were on a boat and had no address. Pure security theatre.
On 6/13/2023 2:38 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
<snip>
The answer is that you have to ask your provider, what is the cost for
having data on the destination country. If this is expensive, you need a
local SIM on the destination (or from another EU country).
No need to ask, Mint does not have any domestic or international roaming.
On 6/14/2023 1:37 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-06-14 22:01, sms wrote:
...
A big issue with the iPhone 14 that is sold in the U.S. is that there
is no longer a SIM card slot. This is a tremendous pain in the butt
for traveling since many countries, even those that have eSIMs
available for residents, don't have them available for tourists.
The recommended procedure then is to move the USA provider to an eSIM
before leaving, and free the SIM slot.
There is no SIM slot on the iPhone 14 sold in the U.S.. Every other
country has a SIM slot plus eSIM (except China which has two physical
SIM slots).
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-14 03:03, sms wrote:
On 6/13/2023 6:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
I was in Italy pre-pandemic and pre-BREXIT and I used a UK Vodafone SIM
card that was a good deal, €1 per 500MB plus calling and texting in the >>> EU and EEA. I activated it in the U.S.. But Vodafone UK wrecked that
plan after BREXIT.
I had visitors last year in Spain, and they bought a prepaid Vodafone
card I did not know about. I don't remember the details, but maybe 50€,
unlimited data, unlimited calls, for a month.
They had to call their flight company office at the other side of the
Atlantic, several very long phone calls, which to me would have been
expensive, were free to them.
They found the card while walking the side streets of Barcelona, at a
small shop that sold cards mostly to immigrants and foreigners (it
helped that my visitors speak Spanish) :-D
I was trying to find a suitable card on Internet, but my cousin beat me
to it just strolling and getting lost on the streets :-D
For paper work, I think they needed some ID like a driving license or
passport.
I suppose Italy is similar, but I do not know.
https://www.phonetravelwiz.com/vodafone-italy-review/
Mentions the bands that the phone must support for Vodafone Italy.
But the data quota is limited, like 10 to 100 GB - which is a lot if you don't generate high bandwidth traffic, like watching videos.
Regarding maps (should the OP want some for Italy, or elsewhere) ...
I don't know how fast an interactive (on-demand) map app would eat data quota, but you could get a map app that uses offline map databases, like
Here [WeGo] (https://play.google.com/store/search?q=here%20we%20go, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_WeGo).
Assuming the OP's phone is carrier unlocked, of the big three USA carriers, >> at least one has a no-contract service which has free world wide roaming.
He is not with the big three U.S. carriers.
Worldwide roaming is kind-of, but not really, included on some T-Mobile plans. SMS is free, voice calls are charged at 25c/minute (both outgoing
and incoming), and very low-speed data is included. High speed data
costs extra (a lot extra!).
The OP could get a one-month service with free roaming with all the bells & >> whistles for International calling & data - then drop it upon returning.
That is true. But to buy it in the U.S. would cost at least $50.
On 14 Jun 2023 13:01:23 -0700 sms wrote:You just stated the reason. Criminals using burner phones with prepaid
Data-only cards are a lot easier for the carriers since there is no
identity verification necessary.
Really? That's interesting. Any idea why not?
I had been buying PAYG SIMs around Europe for some years before the requirement for foreigners to present ID was introduced. It was mainly the result of the Madrid train bombings - though phones had been used to set
off bombs before that. It was a PITA if, like me, you were on a boat and
had no address. Pure security theatre.
I'd be willing to spend $20 for 20 GB if they didn't die. I can see why nobody would sell immortal data, but I don't have to like it.
On 6/14/2023 9:43 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
<snip>
I'd be willing to spend $20 for 20 GB if they didn't die. I can see why >> nobody would sell immortal data, but I don't have to like it.
You can buy immortal data but not for $1/GB. That's about what MVNOs pay
the carriers for data.
On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:01:14 -0500, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this
coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't
expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in
case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a.
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
https://www.mintmobile.com/features/international-roaming/
(looks like you already checked this out)
If you're only going to make calls to friends and family, maybe you
could convince them to get the same chat client (WhatsApp, WeChat, mIRC,
Skype, etc).
No, short of an emergency like my being in a hospital and missing my
return flight, I don't expect to call friends of family at all. We can correspond for anything else by e-mail, if needed (my hotel provides
wi-fi).
On 6/15/23 10:01 AM, sms wrote:
On 6/14/2023 9:43 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
<snip>
I'd be willing to spend $20 for 20 GB if they didn't die. I can see
why nobody would sell immortal data, but I don't have to like it.
You can buy immortal data but not for $1/GB. That's about what MVNOs pay
the carriers for data.
OK, I might have been overly cheap. Who DOES sell immortal data?
On 2023-06-14 16:16, VanguardLH wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-14 03:03, sms wrote:
On 6/13/2023 6:45 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
I live in the USA, but I'll be on vacation in Rome for two weeks this >>>>> coming November. My provider is Mint (using T-Mobile service). I don't >>>>> expect to make or receive any phone calls while I'm there, but just in >>>>> case I need to, I'd like to have the ability to do it on my Pixel 4a. >>>>>
Any suggestions as to what I can do at a low price?
I was in Italy pre-pandemic and pre-BREXIT and I used a UK Vodafone SIM >>>> card that was a good deal, 1 per 500MB plus calling and texting in the >>>> EU and EEA. I activated it in the U.S.. But Vodafone UK wrecked that
plan after BREXIT.
I had visitors last year in Spain, and they bought a prepaid Vodafone
card I did not know about. I don't remember the details, but maybe 50,
unlimited data, unlimited calls, for a month.
They had to call their flight company office at the other side of the
Atlantic, several very long phone calls, which to me would have been
expensive, were free to them.
They found the card while walking the side streets of Barcelona, at a
small shop that sold cards mostly to immigrants and foreigners (it
helped that my visitors speak Spanish) :-D
I was trying to find a suitable card on Internet, but my cousin beat me
to it just strolling and getting lost on the streets :-D
For paper work, I think they needed some ID like a driving license or
passport.
I suppose Italy is similar, but I do not know.
https://www.phonetravelwiz.com/vodafone-italy-review/
Mentions the bands that the phone must support for Vodafone Italy.
But the data quota is limited, like 10 to 100 GB - which is a lot if you
don't generate high bandwidth traffic, like watching videos.
It might have been 100 GB here, too, I have forgotten the details.
Regarding maps (should the OP want some for Italy, or elsewhere) ...
I don't know how fast an interactive (on-demand) map app would eat data
quota, but you could get a map app that uses offline map databases, like
Here [WeGo] (https://play.google.com/store/search?q=here%20we%20go,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_WeGo).
Or OSMand.
I'm retracting my recommendation of Here WeGo.
VanguardLH wrote:
I'm retracting my recommendation of Here WeGo. ...
You may wish to try MapFactor Navigator. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mapfactor.navigator
MapFactor Navigator uses professional maps (not OSM maps). https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/
In looking up the URL I noticed the free Navigator now has ads.
That's too bad. But the older versions definitely didn't have ads.
Patron Saint <patron@saint.com> wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:
Alas, they have got to an ad-ridden app while trying to monetize their product, like throttling it down to a max of 7 offline maps in the free version. Maps.Me did the same thing: ads, and limit of 10 offline maps.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=mapfactor
"GPS Navigation - offline maps from OSM and Tom Tom."
In looking up the URL I noticed the free Navigator now has ads.
That's too bad. But the older versions definitely didn't have ads.
Alas, they have got to an ad-ridden app while trying to monetize their product, like throttling it down to a max of 7 offline maps in the free version. Maps.Me did the same thing: ads, and limit of 10 offline maps.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=mapfactor
"GPS Navigation - offline maps from OSM and Tom Tom."
https://navigatorfree.mapfactor.com/en/
"Based on free offline maps from OpenStreetMaps project, ..."
So, they *do* use crowd-sourced OpenStreet Maps map data. While some
map data comes from "freely licensed geodata sources", I've not seen a delineated list of what are those non-contributor sources.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/about
Notice that OSM and TomTom reached an agreement.
They may be sharing the map now.
I'm going to retract my recommendation for MapFactor Navigator since it
won't seem to have any advantages over the free OSMAnd+ which has no ads.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:[...]
Skype would be much more helpful. Skype can reach all phone numbers
around the globe. But it does not solve the issue of mobile connections.
You have to buy Skype-Out minutes. Then your Skype account can not only connect to other Skype users (which is free), but also to any type of
phones (landline, mobile), but mobile coverage is more limited. They
used be called Skype-In and Skype-Out minutes, but it looks like they've
been merged and just called Skype Minutes.
NOTE: Subject changed since this subthread has focused on map apps (due
to my suggestion to the OP) which is not the topic of the original
thread.
Patron Saint <patron@saint.com> wrote:
I'm going to retract my recommendation for MapFactor Navigator since it won't seem to have any advantages over the free OSMAnd+ which has no ads.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand.plus
Yep, free unless you want the Plus features ($29.99 yearly *subscriptionware*), which are:
OsmAnd Cloud (backup and restore)
Cross-platform
Hourly map updates
Weather plug-in
Elevation widget
Customize route line
External sensors support (ANT+, Bluetooth)
Online elevation profile
Hmm, since Bluetooth is mentioned as a paid Plus feature, will the free version still connect via Bluetooth for audio output of driving
instructions to the car's stereo?
This is an Android app. Maybe cross-platform means they have an iOS
app, too. Went to their web site (http://osmand.net/) to see which
platforms for which they have an app. Android and iOS is all I found.
No UWP app for Windows. For desktops (Windows or Linux), guess you'll
have to use a web browser. While Google Maps has a web site, and so
does Waze (it has problems with its scrollable listboxes), I don't know
of an OsmAnd web site to do mapping. Looks like you'll have to use the OpenStreet Maps web site (https://www.openstreetmap.org). To me, the
claim of "cross-platform support" means more than just 2 platforms both
of which are mobile platforms.
Hourly updates means there will be a few updates, but probably not in
your area.
Weather plug-in. I need another weather app?
For current elevation, I don't need another widget. I'm not into
cluttering my screens with widgets. I just use the Positional app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.trewartha.positional)
which includes a compass (although I have SimplyWerx app for compassing)
and dawn/dusk info. Don't need to pay to get elevation.
For the Plus version, not enough bang-for-the-buck, to me, especially
for a $30/year subscription. However, there is in "Install" button on
the app's page, just a "$29.99 Buy" button, but the page also says
"In-app purchases". So, you pay for it, and it still had ads?
"Data is encrypted in transit"
What data? They don't need to encrypt their map data that I download
since anyone can access that data, plus OSM even provides an API to
retrieve their map data. The payware Plus version has the cloud
storage, so maybe that's the user data that gets encrypted, but just
don't see what user data is generated or stored by this app. Does this
app save waypoints?
Supposedly this, and other, map app will alert you when you are
exceeding the speed limit, and may show the speed limit in the display
for the street you are on. Okay, but I've yet to see that work when I trialed a bunch of map apps a while ago (probably over a year). That
makes me wonder just how dense is their crowd sourcing their map data.
Waze talks about showing other nearby Waze drivers, but that really
doesn't give stats on density of participating community members in your area. I have not found stats on density of OSM contributors by city or region. I live in a metro of 3.7 million, so you'd think there are some
OSM contributors here, but I'm leery when I don't see speed limits
indicating the contributor density here is, at best, sparse. I can find articles, like:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Number-of-OpenStreetMap-OSM-Contributors-per-Population-Area-ratio-Jan-2007-Sept_fig2_272646359
but that's over a decade old, and only gathered stats on a few
locations. Unless the *active* crowd-sourcing community is dense in my
area, I don't see the point of using this mapping service. I found:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats
but, again, that is worthless for determining the density of active contributors in any particular area. If there are not many contributors
in the area you want mapped, accuracy will be poor as well as volume and interval of updates.
For occasional (or no) use, i.e. like the OP (Ken Blake), you don't
have to buy Skype Minutes, you can buy Skype Credit [1].
Skype Credit starts as low as EUR 5 (I've EUR 10), can be set to top-up automatically and never expires.
NOTE: Subject changed since this subthread has focused on map apps (due
to my suggestion to the OP) which is not the topic of the original
thread.
Patron Saint <patron@saint.com> wrote:
I'm going to retract my recommendation for MapFactor Navigator since it
won't seem to have any advantages over the free OSMAnd+ which has no ads.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand.plus
Yep, free unless you want the Plus features ($29.99 yearly *subscriptionware*), which are:
OsmAnd Cloud (backup and restore)
Cross-platform
Hourly map updates
Weather plug-in
Elevation widget
Customize route line
External sensors support (ANT+, Bluetooth)
Online elevation profile
Hmm, since Bluetooth is mentioned as a paid Plus feature, will the free version still connect via Bluetooth for audio output of driving
instructions to the car's stereo?
Weather plug-in. I need another weather app?
For current elevation, I don't need another widget. I'm not into
cluttering my screens with widgets. I just use the Positional app (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.trewartha.positional)
which includes a compass (although I have SimplyWerx app for compassing)
and dawn/dusk info. Don't need to pay to get elevation.
For the Plus version, not enough bang-for-the-buck, to me, especially
for a $30/year subscription. However, there is in "Install" button on
the app's page, just a "$29.99 Buy" button, but the page also says
"In-app purchases". So, you pay for it, and it still had ads?
Doesn't look like your recommendation of OsmAnd+ is free as you claim.
Maybe what you have is their free version (without the plus sign) at https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand which also
notes "in-app purchases". I don't recall ever seeing an add in Google
Maps, but then they make money from the telemetry they collect.
"Data is encrypted in transit"
What data? They don't need to encrypt their map data that I download
since anyone can access that data, plus OSM even provides an API to
retrieve their map data. The payware Plus version has the cloud
storage, so maybe that's the user data that gets encrypted, but just
don't see what user data is generated or stored by this app. Does this
app save waypoints?
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 11:24:02 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Notice that OSM and TomTom reached an agreement. They may be sharing
the map now.
Thank you for looking that up because I was unaware of the OSM conjoining.
I didn't know this since I last used MapFactor Navigator when I didn't have cellular data and I had found it more accurate than the OSM maps were.
It looks like the founder of OSM has a key position with the TomTom execs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TomTom
Where I was rather surprised to see this unrelated line in that wiki.
"In April 2011, TomTom apologized for supplying driving data collected from customers to police to use in catching speeding motorists."
Wow. That's bad.
Anyway, looks like TomTom has been editing OSM maps since only 2021. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TomTom
That same wiki says that the conjoined maps will be released in 2023.
"TomTom announced that its new TomTom Map will use OSM data when it is released, sometime in 2023"
I'm going to retract my recommendation for MapFactor Navigator since it
won't seem to have any advantages over the free OSMAnd+ which has no ads.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
nothing of import
Your lack of attention span or initiative is not my fault. So, um, your one-liners are really supposed to convery more information. Uh huh.
And "In-app purchases" means just that, in-app *purchases*. For
example in my OsmAnd+ version, I can 'buy' the OsmAnd Pro subscription
(they call it a 'plan'). (Doing a quick look, I haven't seen any other purchases.) If it contained *ads*, the Google Play / Play Store entry
would *say* so.
"Data is encrypted in transit"
What data? They don't need to encrypt their map data that I download
since anyone can access that data, plus OSM even provides an API to
retrieve their map data. The payware Plus version has the cloud
storage, so maybe that's the user data that gets encrypted, but just
don't see what user data is generated or stored by this app. Does this
app save waypoints?
Yes, of course, several different kinds.
For your other questions: They have a quite ellaborate website. Have
you looked at that?
Supposedly this, and other, map app will alert you when you are
exceeding the speed limit, and may show the speed limit in the display
for the street you are on. Okay, but I've yet to see that work when I
trialed a bunch of map apps a while ago (probably over a year).
That
makes me wonder just how dense is their crowd sourcing their map data.
OpenStreetMap contributors do not just use *their* data, but also and
even mostly, publicly available/useable data. Creating worldwide maps
from scratch, would be impossible with just contributor data.
In my experience, OSM maps are of similar quality as commercial maps
(like Google Maps, TomTom, HERE, etc.) and often better in out-of-town/ rural/outback/remote/<whatever> areas.
Yep, free unless you want the Plus features ($29.99 yearly *subscriptionware*), which are:
For some reason I can't scroll through the 'About this app' part at
the moment, but there are three 'versions':
I bought the "+" app some years ago (single payment), and apparently I
have unlimited maps, but not automatic updates.
For occasional (or no) use, i.e. like the OP (Ken Blake), you don't
have to buy Skype Minutes, you can buy Skype Credit [1].
Skype Credit starts as low as EUR 5 (I've EUR 10), can be set to
top-up automatically and never expires.
You can call any number anywhere for quite reasonable rates. For
example Italy (i.e. Ken's case) is 2.4 cts/min for landline and 10.4
cts/min for mobile (for NL users, probably similar for US users).
As said elsewhere, you of course need an Internet connection - i.e.
Wi-Fi or mobile data - to use Skype.
I use it as a backup or/and for lengthly or/and overseas calls, for
example when visiting Australia or the US.
[1]
'Call phones and send SMS anywhere in the world at affordable prices
with Skype Credit'
<https://www.skype.com/en/credit>
[...]
Upon your clarification (and the osmand.net article below):
- OsmAnd Maps & GPS Offline = free, but limited feature set.
- OsmAnd+ Maps & GPS Offline = $29.99
- OsmAnd Pro = $2.99/month subscription
I don't know how you missed the really free OSMAnd+ that I referenced since
I gave you the full URL to it but somehow you managed to miss the fully functional free OSMAnd+ (also sometimes referred to as OSMAnd~ in news).
Please re-read Message-ID: <u6g8nt$tunt$1@novabbs.org> to look at the URL.
I don't know how you missed the really free OSMAnd+ that I referenced since >> I gave you the full URL to it but somehow you managed to miss the fully
functional free OSMAnd+ (also sometimes referred to as OSMAnd~ in news).
Please re-read Message-ID: <u6g8nt$tunt$1@novabbs.org> to look at the URL.
That does NOT point to the OsmAnd apps set. That article mentions Mapfactor's Navigator app for which I already mentioned why I don't like
it, and won't be using it. There are several map apps that utilize the
Osm maps database. Mapfactor is one of them.
I don't know how you missed the replies to that article of yours.
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 18:53:26 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
I don't know how you missed the really free OSMAnd+ that I referenced since >>> I gave you the full URL to it but somehow you managed to miss the fullyThat does NOT point to the OsmAnd apps set. That article mentions
functional free OSMAnd+ (also sometimes referred to as OSMAnd~ in news). >>>
Please re-read Message-ID: <u6g8nt$tunt$1@novabbs.org> to look at the URL. >>
Mapfactor's Navigator app for which I already mentioned why I don't like
it, and won't be using it. There are several map apps that utilize the
Osm maps database. Mapfactor is one of them.
I don't know how you missed the replies to that article of yours.
You missed it again?
That's how many times you missed it on this ng? Maybe fifty or more times?
Must I walk you through everything that you should know just because the first fifty times you were told this information you missed it each time?
Oh well, let's try fifty one times, ok?
First, copy this message ID into your clipboard (with the angle brackets). <u6g8nt$tunt$1@novabbs.org>
Then paste it into the standard Usenet lookup engine that's been around for multiple (decades so you have no excuse for not knowing about it by now). http://al.howardknight.net/
What URL comes up for the free OSMAnd+ I already told you about?
What URL comes up for the free OSMAnd+ I already told you about?
I don't have to all that shit. I can find an article in my own client
using the MID which you provided. That's your article recommending
Mapfactor Navigator. Go to that article, and look at its raw source to
see the value of the MID header. Yep, it's the one you gave.
VanguardLH wrote:
What URL comes up for the free OSMAnd+ I already told you about?
I don't have to all that shit. I can find an article in my own client
using the MID which you provided. That's your article recommending
Mapfactor Navigator. Go to that article, and look at its raw source to
see the value of the MID header. Yep, it's the one you gave.
Look at the link. It's to OSMAnd+. The free version of OSMAnd+. net.osmand.plus
How could you miss it with the name of the OSMAnd+ APK even in the link?
If i2pn[2].org is allowing pre-loading of the PATH header with whatever
the users wants to inject, that is an untrusted and potentially
malicious Usenet source to filter out any content sourced from there
MapFactor Navigator uses professional maps (not OSM maps).
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/
Well, you announce it is for Mapfactor Navigator, but the fdroid URL
points to the OsmAnd+ app.
You were a bit mixed up: you say it's for
Mapfactor, but you point to OsmAnd+ github project.
Despite the mixed
meaning, you keep claiming OsmAnd+ is free, but OsmAnd says No.
While the OSM database is free to any map app - "OsmAnd+ (OSM Automated Navigation Directions) is a map and navigation application with access
to the free, worldwide, and high-quality OpenStreetMap (OSM) data." -
doesn't map the app free.
OsmAnd is free. OsmAnd+ is not free, and
that is according to OsmAnd's own pricing page.
If you managed to pirate the app then good for you. I don't pirate.
MapFactor Navigator uses professional maps (not OSM maps).
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/
Maybe English isn't your first language?
VanguardLH wrote:
If i2pn[2].org is allowing pre-loading of the PATH header with whatever
the users wants to inject, that is an untrusted and potentially
malicious Usenet source to filter out any content sourced from there
Why don't you look before you make up conspiracy theories that anyone with half a brain would realize is what every header from that server has?
Patron Saint <patron@saint.com> wrote: ...
I noticed the Path header for Patron's articles is, um, odd.
Path: ...!i2pn.org!rocksolid2!.POSTED!not-for-mail
|
'-- Not a valid hostname for a Path node
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
And "In-app purchases" means just that, in-app *purchases*. For
example in my OsmAnd+ version, I can 'buy' the OsmAnd Pro subscription (they call it a 'plan'). (Doing a quick look, I haven't seen any other purchases.) If it contained *ads*, the Google Play / Play Store entry
would *say* so.
In-app purchases can be for upgrades to the app, or for other products
by the same app author, or completely unrelated products. Google /does/
say so by noting "In-app purchases". There is no mandate those ads are
only for that app or from that app author.
https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/1061913
As yet, I've found nothing by Google dictating the scope of content for
those in-app offers. Despite "purchases", those in-app purchases are
offers hence ads. The only requirement is those in-app offers go
through Google Play's billing service, so Google gets a slice of that
pie, too, and Google gets to track the count and what acquisitions were
made by a user on its server.
"Data is encrypted in transit"
What data? They don't need to encrypt their map data that I download
since anyone can access that data, plus OSM even provides an API to
retrieve their map data. The payware Plus version has the cloud
storage, so maybe that's the user data that gets encrypted, but just
don't see what user data is generated or stored by this app. Does this
app save waypoints?
Yes, of course, several different kinds.
For your other questions: They have a quite ellaborate website. Have
you looked at that?
But no description of just what is the user data that gets encrypted
which would only be important if it were to traverse the Internet.
Supposedly this, and other, map app will alert you when you are
exceeding the speed limit, and may show the speed limit in the display
for the street you are on. Okay, but I've yet to see that work when I
trialed a bunch of map apps a while ago (probably over a year).
They claim the feature. They don't provide info on just where it is available (i.e., in their map database by region, state, or city).
That
makes me wonder just how dense is their crowd sourcing their map data.
They don't provide that information.
OpenStreetMap contributors do not just use *their* data, but also and even mostly, publicly available/useable data. Creating worldwide maps
from scratch, would be impossible with just contributor data.
The problem there are contributors that use gov't street plans. The contributors obtain this free info from their gov't (e.g., municipal
dept) on street plats. But the gov't will show streets that do not yet exist, but are planned for later construction. That means the
contributors using this free gov't info will add streets to their map
data for non-existing streets.
For example, several years when I used some map app using the OSM
database, it showed a street along a highway that went to the city in
Florida that I wanted to go to. I missed the major turnoff from the
highway, but this street was just after a major intersection, so I
figured it would also take me toward the target city. There was even a
sign pounded into the ground pointing to the right with the city name.
It was a yet-to-be-developed road, was currently just where some
tractors had tamped down the grass, and went into a swamp. I didn't
fell like feeding the alligators that day.
Yes, the contributors were adding map data they thought was okay, but
those plats included future plans for street construction, so those
streets didn't yet exist.
In my experience, OSM maps are of similar quality as commercial maps (like Google Maps, TomTom, HERE, etc.) and often better in out-of-town/ rural/outback/remote/<whatever> areas.
Accuracy depends on the density of OSM contributors in an area to
correlate and overlap on their contributed map data. In a low density
area, there aren't enough contributors, and those that are there may not
have covered the area of interest to you.
Upon your clarification (and the osmand.net article below):
- OsmAnd Maps & GPS Offline = free, but limited feature set.
- OsmAnd+ Maps & GPS Offline = $29.99
- OsmAnd Pro = $2.99/month subscription
Since I'm already using Google Maps, I'd only be looking at similarly
ad-free and cost-free map app alternatives. Here WeGo was a very close
match on that criteria, but see next on why they became unusable, to me.
Here WeGo has a problem on my phone with showing the current location
pointer some 11 miles away from my actual current location. Could not
fix this bug with their support help.
Maps.Me has too many ads, and the free version limits downloaded maps to
10. Might be enough for me, but their UI is cluttered, and I detest
ads. Alas, finding truly ad-free apps at the Google Play Store is rare.
Mapfactor Navigator free has ads, and limited to 7 map downloads.
That's probably not the max total, but the max that can be locally
stored for offline use.
OsmAnd free (not interested in paying for a Plus or Pro version). The
matrix of differences between free and Plus/Pro versions convinces me
the free version is all I need. Yet they, too, have ads. "In-app
purchases" *are* ads. Doesn't matter if an app advertises for itself,
the author's other products, or someone else's products. They're ads.
If the ad is merely an entry in a menu (and only 1 entry) that is seen
only when looking at the menu list then the ad content is acceptable.
If an add appears anywhere else, especially if atop the map, is not tolerable. One map app plastered a gold crown icon atop the top left
corner of the app as an add icon, plus they had an ad entry in the menu.
The latter is tolerable. The former is not.
https://osmand.net/docs/user/purchases/android/
Says free version is ad-free yet Google Play Store mentions in-app
purchases (yep, those are ads). If the ad is 1 entry in a menu or in settings, okay. If the ad content appears more than once, or anywhere
other than as a menu entry (which would have the ad content mostly
hidden) then that's okay, too. If the ad content appears anywhere else, it'll get uninstalled.
Oh, geez, I see there is a map download limit with OSM, too, like with Maps.Me and other map apps using the OSM database.
Maps.Me and other map apps using the OSM database. Perhaps OSM put a
limit of map downloads on any free map app.
You pay for a map app to
get more features, like unlimited downloads, because that might give the
app author some funds to pay OSM for unlimited map access. I currently
have 3 map downloads in Google Maps (and in the previously trialed maps apps), so that leaves me with only 4 in reserve. Also, map updates are
once per month, but those updates are 15 days old on the update. This
lag is punishment to us freeloaders for using the free app versus paying
for it. OsmAnd free might still be doable provided they don't clutter
their UI with ad(s).
Sygic has too many defects. Just trialed it, too many bugs: hangs when
close any login dialog without logging in (I'm not creating an account), extremely slow map downloads, all of Canada and Mexico can be selected
for download but US requires 50 taps to select all states, makes my
phone so sluggish as to be unusable, no exit inside of app (have to use
its notification's "Turn Off" button), HUD mode was blank, and more
problems than I can remember right now. Simple cure: uninstall it.
Mapfactor Navigator. Since this uses the OSM database, I see no point
in using a map app other than OsmAnd should I trial it again to see if
it more accurate this time.
I'll report back if I decided to keep the OsmAnd free app.
But, to be [f|F]rank, I find the current $29.99 price rather steep. I
paid much less, IIRC some EUR 5 or so. But, as Carlos also mentioned,
OsmAnd+ is a very powerful app, so if you need/want the kind of features
it offers, it's probably worth the price. And for example Sygic has
similar pricing.
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus/
Maybe English isn't your first language?
Vanguard is a troll. He knows you know that the free osmand on f-droid is
the same app on google play but he's just trolling you by playing stupid.
On 17.06.23 17:01, Frank Slootweg wrote:
But, to be [f|F]rank, I find the current $29.99 price rather steep. I paid much less, IIRC some EUR 5 or so. But, as Carlos also mentioned, OsmAnd+ is a very powerful app, so if you need/want the kind of features
it offers, it's probably worth the price. And for example Sygic has
similar pricing.
OSMAnd[+] net.osmand.plus is foss on F-droid
VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
Patron Saint <patron@saint.com> wrote: ...
I noticed the Path header for Patron's articles is, um, odd.
Path: ...!i2pn.org!rocksolid2!.POSTED!not-for-mail
|
'-- Not a valid hostname for a Path node
It *is* a valid hostname. A hostname in a Path: header does not have
to include the domain part (which is logical, because the Path: header predates the use of domain names) *and* it does not have to be the real hostname of the host running the news server (or injection node), i.e. 'mybogushost' is perfectly valid, stupid, but valid.
[...]
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
OpenStreetMap contributors do not just use *their* data, but also and
even mostly, publicly available/useable data. Creating worldwide maps
from scratch, would be impossible with just contributor data.
The problem there are contributors that use gov't street plans. The contributors obtain this free info from their gov't (e.g., municipal
dept) on street plats. But the gov't will show streets that do not yet exist, but are planned for later construction. That means the
contributors using this free gov't info will add streets to their map
data for non-existing streets.
On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 22:37:09 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I bought the "+" app some years ago (single payment), and apparently I
have unlimited maps, but not automatic updates.
It would be useful for you to describe what you got for purchasing the "+" when you could have gotten the same "+" app for free without purchasing it.
I searched this newsgroup and I found that the differences were described quite a few times but summarized they seem to only be in support calls.
I may be wrong but the really free "+" version, based on what my searches
of this newsgroup found, seems to be limited in one-on-one support calls.
In some of the articles I found in my search of this newsgroup (where the topic has come up maybe a few scores of times) people said they wanted to
pay the developer for the "+" version even though they knew it was free.
But if you wanted to donate to developers, you can always do that without giving Google a 30% cut (unless you wanted to also donate 30% to Google).
What is your reason for paying for the "+" version instead of getting the exact same "+" version for free? The support? Or the donation to OSMAnd?
What is your reason for paying for the "+" version instead of getting the
exact same "+" version for free? The support? Or the donation to OSMAnd?
OsmAnd is gratis, OsmAnd+ is pay. I checked the list of differences at
the time of purchase, decided I wanted it, and wanted to contribute.
On 17.06.23 16:37, Carlos E.R. wrote:
What is your reason for paying for the "+" version instead of getting
the
exact same "+" version for free? The support? Or the donation to OSMAnd?
OsmAnd is gratis, OsmAnd+ is pay. I checked the list of differences at
the time of purchase, decided I wanted it, and wanted to contribute.
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid.
Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google Play.
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid.
Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google Play.
No, that's incorrect. Software published in F-Droid have removed parts related to Google services, in order to be FOSS. It depends on the
particular app what this actually means.
On 18.06.23 3:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid.
Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google
Play.
No, that's incorrect. Software published in F-Droid have removed parts
related to Google services, in order to be FOSS. It depends on the
particular app what this actually means.
What do you think your payware OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus does that his foss OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus doesn't do?
Don't tell me you heard from a friend that he found in the trash at a
coffee shop an envelope with scribbles on it saying "something" was
different in the two but they didn't know what or even what it meant.
Tell me what does the payware net.osmand.plus do that the freeware doesn't.
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are attempting to claim doesn't exist.
On 2023-06-18 11:23, Stefan Claas wrote:
On 18.06.23 3:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid.
Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google
Play.
No, that's incorrect. Software published in F-Droid have removed parts
related to Google services, in order to be FOSS. It depends on the
particular app what this actually means.
What do you think your payware OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus does that his foss OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus doesn't do?
Don't tell me you heard from a friend that he found in the trash at a coffee shop an envelope with scribbles on it saying "something" was different in the two but they didn't know what or even what it meant.
Tell me what does the payware net.osmand.plus do that the freeware doesn't.
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are attempting to claim doesn't exist.
Ask Arlen.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 11:23, Stefan Claas wrote:
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are >>> attempting to claim doesn't exist.
Ask Arlen.
What makes you think that 'Arlen' listens when 'Arlen' speaks?
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 11:23, Stefan Claas wrote:
On 18.06.23 3:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid. >>>>> Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google
Play.
No, that's incorrect. Software published in F-Droid have removed parts >>>> related to Google services, in order to be FOSS. It depends on the
particular app what this actually means.
What do you think your payware OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus does that his foss >>> OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus doesn't do?
Don't tell me you heard from a friend that he found in the trash at a
coffee shop an envelope with scribbles on it saying "something" was
different in the two but they didn't know what or even what it meant.
Tell me what does the payware net.osmand.plus do that the freeware doesn't. >>>
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are >>> attempting to claim doesn't exist.
Ask Arlen.
What makes you think that 'Arlen' listens when 'Arlen' speaks?
Am 18.06.23 um 16:00 schrieb Frank Slootweg:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 11:23, Stefan Claas wrote:
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are >>> attempting to claim doesn't exist.
Ask Arlen.
What makes you think that 'Arlen' listens when 'Arlen' speaks?
Do you have anything material to say, Troll?
On 2023-06-18 16:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 11:23, Stefan Claas wrote:
On 18.06.23 3:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid. >>>>> Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google >>>>> Play.
No, that's incorrect. Software published in F-Droid have removed parts >>>> related to Google services, in order to be FOSS. It depends on the
particular app what this actually means.
What do you think your payware OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus does that his foss >>> OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus doesn't do?
Don't tell me you heard from a friend that he found in the trash at a
coffee shop an envelope with scribbles on it saying "something" was
different in the two but they didn't know what or even what it meant.
Tell me what does the payware net.osmand.plus do that the freeware doesn't.
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are >>> attempting to claim doesn't exist.
Ask Arlen.
What makes you think that 'Arlen' listens when 'Arlen' speaks?
That one is not Arlen.
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 16:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 11:23, Stefan Claas wrote:
On 18.06.23 3:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There are no differences between your OSMAnd+ and his OSMAnd+.
His OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is free open source software on F-Droid. >>>>>>> Your OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus is the same but it's payware on Google >>>>>>> Play.
No, that's incorrect. Software published in F-Droid have removed parts >>>>>> related to Google services, in order to be FOSS. It depends on the >>>>>> particular app what this actually means.
What do you think your payware OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus does that his foss >>>>> OSMAnd+ net.osmand.plus doesn't do?
Don't tell me you heard from a friend that he found in the trash at a >>>>> coffee shop an envelope with scribbles on it saying "something" was
different in the two but they didn't know what or even what it meant. >>>>>
Tell me what does the payware net.osmand.plus do that the freeware doesn't.
If you can't come up with a specific feature then the difference you are >>>>> attempting to claim doesn't exist.
Ask Arlen.
What makes you think that 'Arlen' listens when 'Arlen' speaks?
That one is not Arlen.
No, it probably isn't, but it/they are sounding more and more like
him.
These days there are som many nymshifts and look-a-likes that the difference - if any - becomes unimportant.
The crucial difference is that the F-Droid versions are FOSS.
On 2023-06-20 15:20, Frank Slootweg wrote:[...]
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-06-18 16:00, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
[...]Ask Arlen.
What makes you think that 'Arlen' listens when 'Arlen' speaks?
That one is not Arlen.
No, it probably isn't, but it/they are sounding more and more like
him.
These days there are som many nymshifts and look-a-likes that the difference - if any - becomes unimportant.
But Arlen would be using an obvious identity, and respond to questions
about old posts by him, acknowledging that it was him, even saying that
there were ways to identify him if we wanted. There might be other
suspect identities, but one of them would be obvious and he would be responding on that one, not hiding.
And if somebody asked a question of him, he would appear and answer.
That acknowledged identity is not present now.
I have seen veiled posts on another group about problems Arlen was
having to post, I suspect related to the disappearance of aioe and
others that allowed anonymous posting. Either that or he is ill.
Am 20.06.2023 um 19:34:24 Uhr schrieb Carlos E.R.:
The crucial difference is that the F-Droid versions are FOSS.
Download the latest version Google Play APK net.osmand.plus
Download the same version F-Droid APK net.osmand.plus
Compare the hashes.
The version has to be exactly the same though (down to the subversion).
It will be easier to start with the Google version as F-Droid will have a history and Google won't have any history. Google only has the latest.
I haven't checked the hashes on that particular app and I'm not going to.
But in my experience the hashes are the same for F-Droid & Google Play.
The version has to be exactly the same though (down to the subversion).
Have you done that?
It will be easier to start with the Google version as F-Droid will have a
history and Google won't have any history. Google only has the latest.
I haven't checked the hashes on that particular app and I'm not going to.
But in my experience the hashes are the same for F-Droid & Google Play.
In some apps, they are not. There is even a page that lists the
differences in some.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
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| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
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| Messages: | 5,335,392 |