Thieves typically "shoulder surf" victims to catch them entering their
PIN before stealing the phone.
A good reason to use fingerprint, face, or iris scan instead. But on my iPhone I find myself entering my PIN pretty often when FaceID doesn't
unlock the device.
Both Apple and Google could largely address this issue by allowing the
user to require per-app authentication with a different PIN (or pattern)
or by allowing the user to require fingerprint, or face, or iris scan authentication.
Mobile fraud: Thieves 'shoulder surfing' victims to steal phones
[JJ: and PINs]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65456325
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Detective Superintendent John Roch says the technology behind the apps
is secure but criminals are getting better at exploiting human behaviour.
Thieves typically "shoulder surf" victims to catch them entering their
PIN before stealing the phone.
The financial impact of the crime can be enormous."
Goes on to tell of one man losing £22,000
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are getting stupider.
On 5/22/2023 2:53 AM, Java Jive wrote:
Mobile fraud: Thieves 'shoulder surfing' victims to steal phones
[JJ: and PINs]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65456325
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Detective Superintendent John Roch says the technology behind the apps
is secure but criminals are getting better at exploiting human behaviour.
Thieves typically "shoulder surf" victims to catch them entering their
PIN before stealing the phone.
A good reason to use fingerprint, face, or iris scan instead. But on my iPhone I find myself entering my PIN pretty often when FaceID doesn't
unlock the device.
The financial impact of the crime can be enormous."
Goes on to tell of one man losing £22,000
Both Apple and Google could largely address this issue by allowing the
user to require per-app authentication with a different PIN (or pattern)
or by allowing the user to require fingerprint, or face, or iris scan authentication.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are getting stupider.
While people have been warned to make it hard for anyone to see what they enter into an ATM by putting their other hand over the hand entering the PIN code, those same people one-handedly enter their PIN in on devices in
stores, where I personally have to put effort into NOT seeing what they
enter - of either the customer infront of me or the next cash register over (even easier, as you can look more-or-less straight ahead).
Mobile fraud: Thieves 'shoulder surfing' victims to steal phones
[JJ: and PINs]
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65456325
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Detective Superintendent John Roch says the technology behind the apps
is secure but criminals are getting better at exploiting human behaviour.
Thieves typically "shoulder surf" victims to catch them entering their
PIN before stealing the phone.
The financial impact of the crime can be enormous."
Goes on to tell of one man losing £22,000
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose 300 at most.
It's not quite the same. Shoulder surf someone entering their PIN to use
with a debit card and you have the PIN but you're unlikely to steal
their debit card which is necessary to get money.
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are getting stupider.
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for
decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are
getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
In article <u4gi91$28m45$2@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for
decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more
significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
that depends on the bank and status of the account holder.
for some accounts, the limit is significantly higher.
<https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/banking/advice/atm-withdrawal-lim its/>
Knowing which ATMs have the highest withdrawal limits is important
for successful cash withdrawals. Some banks, such as Morgan Stanley
and Citi have relatively high daily ATM withdrawal limits as high as
$5,000 per day. Depending on the account type, banks generally offer
various withdrawal limits.
In article <u4gi91$28m45$1@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
I always wonder with these stories why do people have so much money in easy >> to access accounts. It should be put away in an ISA or high interest
savings account.
those are also easy to access.
On 5/22/2023 1:04 PM, R.Wieser wrote:
<snip>
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for
decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are
getting stupider.
While people have been warned to make it hard for anyone to see what they
enter into an ATM by putting their other hand over the hand entering the PIN >> code, those same people one-handedly enter their PIN in on devices in
stores, where I personally have to put effort into NOT seeing what they
enter - of either the customer infront of me or the next cash register over >> (even easier, as you can look more-or-less straight ahead).
<snip>
It's not quite the same. Shoulder surf someone entering their PIN to use
with a debit card and you have the PIN but you're unlikely to steal
their debit card which is necessary to get money.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <u4gi91$28m45$2@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more
significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
that depends on the bank and status of the account holder.
Not for most people in the UK. There are hard limits on almost all ATMs.
for some accounts, the limit is significantly higher.
<https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/banking/advice/atm-withdrawal-lim
its/>
Knowing which ATMs have the highest withdrawal limits is important
for successful cash withdrawals. Some banks, such as Morgan Stanley
and Citi have relatively high daily ATM withdrawal limits as high as
$5,000 per day. Depending on the account type, banks generally offer
various withdrawal limits.
The OP is a UK story so the above is irrelevant.
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access toIts not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are getting stupider.
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more
significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose 300 at most.
that depends on the bank and status of the account holder.
Not for most people in the UK. There are hard limits on almost all ATMs.
for some accounts, the limit is significantly higher.
<https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/banking/advice/atm-withdrawal-lim its/>
Knowing which ATMs have the highest withdrawal limits is important
for successful cash withdrawals. Some banks, such as Morgan Stanley
and Citi have relatively high daily ATM withdrawal limits as high as
$5,000 per day. Depending on the account type, banks generally offer
various withdrawal limits.
The OP is a UK story so the above is irrelevant.
In article <u4hmms$2flbg$2@dont-email.me>, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more >>>> significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
that depends on the bank and status of the account holder.
Not for most people in the UK. There are hard limits on almost all ATMs.
as i said, it depends.
<https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/6659541/maximum-cash-withdraw-limit-uk-b ank/>
There are tens of thousands of ATM machines across the UK which allow
people to withdraw cash.
...
At Lloyds and Halifax you can withdraw up to £500 a day.
...
[Barclays] Customers with personal current accounts can take out up
to £300 per day from an ATM, while Premier and Platinum accounts
can take out up to £1,000 per day.
...
If you have a [NatWest] Black account, the limit is £750 a day.
...
If you have a Santander Select Current Account, you can withdraw
£1,000 in a single day.
...
If you have HSBC Premier, it's £1,000.
Am 22.05.23 um 22:11 schrieb Chris:
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to
banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for
decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more
significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
*ROTFLSTC*. What do you think you can do with £300 these days?
In most countries you can withdraw €1000+ and here in Switzerland it can
be CHF 2000 which is more than €2000.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more >>>> significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose 300 at most.
that depends on the bank and status of the account holder.
Not for most people in the UK. There are hard limits on almost all ATMs.
as i said, it depends.
<https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/6659541/maximum-cash-withdraw-limit-uk-b ank/>
There are tens of thousands of ATM machines across the UK which allow
people to withdraw cash.
...
At Lloyds and Halifax you can withdraw up to 500 a day.
...
[Barclays] Customers with personal current accounts can take out up
to 300 per day from an ATM, while Premier and Platinum accounts
can take out up to 1,000 per day.
...
If you have a [NatWest] Black account, the limit is 750 a day.
...
If you have a Santander Select Current Account, you can withdraw
1,000 in a single day.
...
If you have HSBC Premier, it's 1,000.
Not many people have those accounts (except lloyds and halifax) as they're exclusive to people with salaries way above the median.
Still not 20,000
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 22.05.23 um 22:11 schrieb Chris:
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more
significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
*ROTFLSTC*. What do you think you can do with £300 these days?
These days cash is useful mostly for small transactions. Everything else is plastic. Safer and you get more consumer protections.
In most countries you can withdraw €1000+ and here in Switzerland it can >> be CHF 2000 which is more than €2000.
Useless to most people. Maybe not the swiss seeing as the cost of living is so high.
Am 23.05.23 um 22:23 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 22.05.23 um 22:11 schrieb Chris:
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more >>>> significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
*ROTFLSTC*. What do you think you can do with £300 these days?
These days cash is useful mostly for small transactions. Everything else is >> plastic. Safer and you get more consumer protections.
In most countries you can withdraw €1000+ and here in Switzerland it can >>> be CHF 2000 which is more than €2000.
Useless to most people. Maybe not the swiss seeing as the cost of living is >> so high.
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster since the Brexit.
Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster
since the Brexit.
Nothing to do with Brexit. Switzerland is well known to be an expensive
place to live. Apparently many people in geneva do their shopping in
France.
https://www.expatica.com/ch/moving/about/cost-of-living-in-switzerland-1181681/
Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Pretty sure Britain hasn't upped anchor and is now in the middle of the atlantic... Although, I suspect many brexiteers thought that would be the case.
I always wonder with these stories why do people have so much money in easy to access accounts.
Am 23.05.23 um 22:23 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 22.05.23 um 22:11 schrieb Chris:
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more >>>> significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose 300 at most.
*ROTFLSTC*. What do you think you can do with 300 these days?
These days cash is useful mostly for small transactions. Everything else is >> plastic. Safer and you get more consumer protections.
In most countries you can withdraw 1000+ and here in Switzerland it can >>> be CHF 2000 which is more than 2000.
Useless to most people. Maybe not the swiss seeing as the cost of living is >> so high.
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the is shrinking ever faster
since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster
since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Safer and you get more consumer protections.
Yes, for credit cards. No, with debit cards..
And with credit cards,
you get airline mileage, reward points, or cash back. I never use
debit cards.
There's an occasional bill that I could pay by credit card, but I
don't because the vendor adds an extra charge for doing that.
Am 24.05.23 um 16:35 schrieb Ken Blake:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster >>> since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Geographically you are right.
Even Russia and parts of Turkey belong to
Europe.
Am 24.05.23 um 09:05 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster >>> since the Brexit.
Nothing to do with Brexit. Switzerland is well known to be an expensive
place to live. Apparently many people in geneva do their shopping in
France.
Shopping in Germany is financially much more rewarding.
https://www.expatica.com/ch/moving/about/cost-of-living-in-switzerland-1181681/
This is completely OT. The UK is the sub-topic.
On Tue, 23 May 2023 20:23:54 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 22.05.23 um 22:11 schrieb Chris:
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said.
Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more >>>> significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose £300 at most.
*ROTFLSTC*. What do you think you can do with £300 these days?
These days cash is useful mostly for small transactions.
True for many people, but not true for everyone.
It's not true for the poor, who seldom have credit cards.
I pay my guitar teacher with cash (he can't take anything else), I use plastic whenever I can, even for small transactions.
Everything else is
plastic.
A lot, but not quite everything for me.
I pay my tax bills, utility bills and credit card bills by automatic withdrawals from my checking account. A big advantage of doing that is
that if I am away from home (for example, on vacation), I don't have
to worry about paying the bills on time.
I pay my guitar teacher with cash. He doesn't take anything else.
I pay my gardener by check.
Safer and you get more consumer protections.
Yes, for credit cards. No, with debit cards..
And with credit cards,
you get airline mileage, reward points, or cash back. I never use
debit cards.
There's an occasional bill that I could pay by credit card, but I
don't because the vendor adds an extra charge for doing that.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 24.05.23 um 16:35 schrieb Ken Blake:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster >>>> since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Geographically you are right.
There's no other definition of Europe.
Even Russia and parts of Turkey belong to
Europe.
Why do you say "even"?
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 20:23:54 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 22.05.23 um 22:11 schrieb Chris:
R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
Java,
"Criminals are getting smarter at targeting victims to gain access to >>>>>>> banking apps on mobile phones, a senior UK fraud officer has said. >>>>>>Its not that criminals get smarter - shoulder-surfing has been done for >>>>>> decennia, trying to glean what someone enters on an ATM - but people are >>>>>> getting stupider.
Not sure it's that they're stupider, more that their stupidity has more >>>>> significant consequence. At an ATM you'd lose 300 at most.
*ROTFLSTC*. What do you think you can do with 300 these days?
These days cash is useful mostly for small transactions.
True for many people, but not true for everyone.
It's not true for the poor, who seldom have credit cards.
Debit cards are available to anyone.
I've not experienced this myself but some homeless people have contactless >readers now. Makes sense as I no longer have spare change on me.
I pay my guitar teacher with cash (he can't take anything else), I use
plastic whenever I can, even for small transactions.
Everything else is
plastic.
A lot, but not quite everything for me.
I pay my tax bills, utility bills and credit card bills by automatic
withdrawals from my checking account. A big advantage of doing that is
that if I am away from home (for example, on vacation), I don't have
to worry about paying the bills on time.
I should have said digital.
I pay my guitar teacher with cash. He doesn't take anything else.
I pay my gardener by check.
All trades accept bank transfers here. I haven't written a cheque in at
least five years. No one likes cheques anymore.
Safer and you get more consumer protections.
Yes, for credit cards. No, with debit cards..
Debit cards are safer and can potentially get your money back from a >fraudulent transaction.
And with credit cards,
you get airline mileage, reward points, or cash back. I never use
debit cards.
There's an occasional bill that I could pay by credit card, but I
don't because the vendor adds an extra charge for doing that.
Illegal here.
There's an occasional bill that I could pay by credit card, but I
don't because the vendor adds an extra charge for doing that.
Illegal here.
I don't think it's illegal here, but at least some credit card
companies used to take away the service from any company that did
that. Do they still? I'm not sure.
Am 25.05.23 um 09:38 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 24.05.23 um 16:35 schrieb Ken Blake:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster >>>>> since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Geographically you are right.
There's no other definition of Europe.
Even Russia and parts of Turkey belong to
Europe.
Why do you say "even"?
I let *you* guess.
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 25.05.23 um 09:38 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 24.05.23 um 16:35 schrieb Ken Blake:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>
wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster >>>>>> since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Geographically you are right.
There's no other definition of Europe.
Even Russia and parts of Turkey belong to
Europe.
Why do you say "even"?
I let *you* guess.
Why not just answer the question?
Am 25.05.23 um 18:11 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 25.05.23 um 09:38 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 24.05.23 um 16:35 schrieb Ken Blake:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> >>>>>> wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster
since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Geographically you are right.
There's no other definition of Europe.
Even Russia and parts of Turkey belong to
Europe.
Why do you say "even"?
I let *you* guess.
Why not just answer the question?
I did. Read between the lines.
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I pay my gardener by check.
All trades accept bank transfers here. I haven't written a cheque in
at least five years.
No one likes cheques anymore.
I do. I just bought a new car. I wrote a check for the difference from
the trade. The dealership didn't seem to mind. They're also good for
plain old no-machine-necessary money transfers between us plain folks. I
also write checks for large gifts (weddings, graduations, etc.) and
insert it in the card. Also for out of state grandkids small gifts
(birthdays etc). They're safer than cash in the mail and I know that
they got there when they clear (thanks letters sometimes take a long
time or not at all...). They make good receipts. If the yard guy claims
I didn't pay him I can show him the cancelled check. And when I do get a check it takes just seconds to cash using my bank's phone app. Easy
peasy. I for one will be sorry if they go away but I suppose they will someday...
On 5/25/2023 2:09 PM, AJL wrote:
In the U.S., checks are dangerous. Once someone has your routing
number and account number the fraud potential is enormous. Anyone can
print out more checks.
I had a temporary checking account last year and I knew I would only
have to write about ten checks so rather than order checks I bought
blank check paper from Amazon
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00L3NC8A8/> and created a template in
Microsoft Word. Magnetic ink was not necessary. All the checks I
wrote went through no problem. Anyone with my routing number and
account number could have written checks and the bank never looks at signatures.
In the U.S., checks are dangerous.
Once someone has your routing number
and account number the fraud potential is enormous.
Anyone can print out
more checks.
Actually my credit card would likely be easier to scam. I have a $30K
limit on it whereas I generally keep only $1K in my checking accounts
(when not buying a car) and larger fraudulent checks would bounce.
Actually my credit card would likely be easier to scam. I have a $30K
limit on it whereas I generally keep only $1K in my checking accounts
(when not buying a car) and larger fraudulent checks would bounce.
There's a big difference between disputing a fraudulent credit card
charge versus having your bank account drained.
On 5/25/2023 3:37 PM, AJL wrote:
Actually my credit card would likely be easier to scam. I have a
$30K limit on it whereas I generally keep only $1K in my checking
accounts (when not buying a car) and larger fraudulent checks would
bounce.
There's a big difference between disputing a fraudulent credit card
charge versus having your bank account drained.
On 5/25/2023 12:48 AM, Chris wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I pay my gardener by check.
Me too. I just leave the check under the front doormat on the designated
yard work day. I don't have to be home that way.
All trades accept bank transfers here. I haven't written a cheque in
at least five years.
YMMV...
No one likes cheques anymore.
I do. I just bought a new car. I wrote a check for the difference from
the trade. The dealership didn't seem to mind.
They're also good for
plain old no-machine-necessary money transfers between us plain folks.
I
also write checks for large gifts (weddings, graduations, etc.) and
insert it in the card. Also for out of state grandkids small gifts
(birthdays etc). They're safer than cash in the mail and I know that
they got there when they clear (thanks letters sometimes take a long
time or not at all...). They make good receipts. If the yard guy claims
I didn't pay him I can show him the cancelled check.
And when I do get a
check it takes just seconds to cash using my bank's phone app. Easy
peasy.
I for one will be sorry if they go away but I suppose they will
someday...
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 25.05.23 um 18:11 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 25.05.23 um 09:38 schrieb Chris:
Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
Am 24.05.23 um 16:35 schrieb Ken Blake:
On Tue, 23 May 2023 22:34:16 +0200, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> >>>>>>> wrote:
Wrong perspective: The relative value of the £ is shrinking ever faster
since the Brexit. Britain is already the poor man of Europe.
Oops! Sorry! Britain is not part of Europe anymore.
Sure it is. It's not part of the EU, but it is part of Europe.
Geographically you are right.
There's no other definition of Europe.
Even Russia and parts of Turkey belong to
Europe.
Why do you say "even"?
I let *you* guess.
Why not just answer the question?
I did. Read between the lines.
You didn't. There are no lines to read between.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
On 5/25/2023 12:48 AM, Chris wrote:
Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> wrote:
I pay my gardener by check.
Me too. I just leave the check under the front doormat on the designated
yard work day. I don't have to be home that way.
All trades accept bank transfers here. I haven't written a cheque in
at least five years.
YMMV...
Speak to anyone under 30 about cheques and they'll look at you blankly.
No one likes cheques anymore.
I do. I just bought a new car. I wrote a check for the difference from
the trade. The dealership didn't seem to mind.
Back in the day when this common places would make you wait a week or so
for the cheque to clear on high value items because you got the car etc.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
Speak to anyone under 30 about cheques and they'll look at you blankly.
No one likes cheques anymore.
I do. I just bought a new car. I wrote a check for the difference from
the trade. The dealership didn't seem to mind.
Back in the day when this common places would make you wait a week or so
for the cheque to clear on high value items because you got the car etc.
They're also good for
plain old no-machine-necessary money transfers between us plain folks.
Bank transfers are easier and quicker.
I
also write checks for large gifts (weddings, graduations, etc.) and
insert it in the card. Also for out of state grandkids small gifts
(birthdays etc). They're safer than cash in the mail and I know that
they got there when they clear (thanks letters sometimes take a long
time or not at all...). They make good receipts. If the yard guy claims
I didn't pay him I can show him the cancelled check.
That's not proof of anything. It could have been cashed fraudulently.
And when I do get a
check it takes just seconds to cash using my bank's phone app. Easy
peasy.
For higher value ones my bank also wants you to send them the cheque. A
pain.
I for one will be sorry if they go away but I suppose they will
someday...
Not missed them for a second.
I remember when I used to do a lot of cheques you never had a true grasp of how much money you had as some of it was on its way out and some on its way in.
With weekends and bank holidays it sometimes took 10 days before a
cheque cleared. Plus some people took ages to deposit cheques so you'd end
up with a surprise withdrawal weeks/months later.
On 5/25/2023 2:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/25/2023 2:09 PM, AJL wrote:
In the U.S., checks are dangerous. Once someone has your routing
number and account number the fraud potential is enormous. Anyone can
print out more checks.
Not any more dangerous than credit/debit cards (for my banks anyway).
Like credit/debit cards I will be completely reimbursed for any fraud
THAT IS NOT MY FAULT.
In the U.S., checks are dangerous. Once someone has your routing
number and account number the fraud potential is enormous. Anyone can
print out more checks.
Not any more dangerous than credit/debit cards (for my banks anyway).
Like credit/debit cards I will be completely reimbursed for any fraud
THAT IS NOT MY FAULT.
It's a huge difference. With your credit card, the bank will investigate
the fraudulent charges and in the meantime you're not out any money.
With a fraudulent check against your account, your account is drained
while the bank investigates. Also, the credit card issuing bank had
protocols that recognize probable fraud so someone that steals your
credit card would have a hard time charging too much. Also, in countries
with Chip & PIN, the credit card without the PIN doesn't allow large
charges.
On 5/25/2023 3:37 PM, AJL wrote:
On 5/25/2023 2:49 PM, sms wrote:
In the U.S., checks are dangerous. Once someone has your routing
number and account number the fraud potential is enormous. Anyone
can print out more checks.
Not any more dangerous than credit/debit cards (for my banks
anyway). Like credit/debit cards I will be completely reimbursed
for any fraud THAT IS NOT MY FAULT.
It's a huge difference. With your credit card, the bank will
investigate the fraudulent charges and in the meantime you're not out
any money. With a fraudulent check against your account, your account
is drained while the bank investigates.
Also, the credit card issuing bank had protocols that recognize
probable fraud so someone that steals your credit card would have a
hard time charging too much.
But in the 50+ years I've used checking accounts there has been nary a problem so I won't lose any sleep over it...
On 5/25/2023 11:55 PM, Chris wrote:
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
Speak to anyone under 30 about cheques and they'll look at you blankly.
My grandkids/greatgrandkids (46 now IIRC) are under 30. Most over 10
seem to know what my checks are and seem to be happy to get them. The
parents probably think they're a PITA though...
No one likes cheques anymore.
I do. I just bought a new car. I wrote a check for the difference from
the trade. The dealership didn't seem to mind.
Back in the day when this common places would make you wait a week or so
for the cheque to clear on high value items because you got the car etc.
Not sure exactly what you mean here.
The car dealer is protected when I
drive out .
He checks that my insurance card is up to date in case I
damage the car and he doesn't transfer the car title until the check
clears.
The bank is protected because it just bounces any unfunded
checks. No waiting in either case. It's always been that way for me. YMMV.
They're also good for
plain old no-machine-necessary money transfers between us plain folks.
Bank transfers are easier and quicker.
Dunno. I can write out a check in a minute and hand it to anyone. Done.
I
also write checks for large gifts (weddings, graduations, etc.) and
insert it in the card. Also for out of state grandkids small gifts
(birthdays etc). They're safer than cash in the mail and I know that
they got there when they clear (thanks letters sometimes take a long
time or not at all...). They make good receipts. If the yard guy claims
I didn't pay him I can show him the cancelled check.
That's not proof of anything. It could have been cashed fraudulently.
I can get a fraudulently cashed check reimbursed. Cash in a stolen card
is gone forever.
He checks that my insurance card is up to date in case I
damage the car and he doesn't transfer the car title until the check clears.
He could still lose the car through fraud. Which is why banks chose to get rid of cheques; too easy for fraud.
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com wrote:
He checks that my insurance card is up to date in case I damage
the car and he doesn't transfer the car title until the check
clears.
He could still lose the car through fraud. Which is why banks chose
to get rid of cheques; too easy for fraud.
certified checks greatly reduce that risk, and almost always
required for high value transactions.
AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote:
The car dealer is protected when I drive out .
How?
He could still lose the car through fraud.
Which is why banks chose to get rid of cheques;
too easy for fraud.
I can get a fraudulently cashed check reimbursed. Cash in a stolen
birthday card is gone forever.
No it isn't. I doubt a bank would refund a cheque these days given
there are much safer ways.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 06:37:34 |
| Calls: | 6,666 |
| Files: | 12,213 |
| Messages: | 5,336,028 |