With the huge number of zero-day holes in iOS that Apple has never
once found on their own, can anyone logically refute the summary in
the title?
*No smartphone is less secure than an Apple smartphone*
Worse, if you're not on iOS 16, even Apple says they won't fully
patch it!
Can anyone refute these obvious logical conclusions based on facts?
Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather tightly.
People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at all
regardless of what operating system they use.
Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather tightly.
People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at all
regardless of what operating system they use.
As usual, Arlen/Andy/Dean/etc., is not telling the whole story.
If you compare a flagship Android device like a Google Pixel 7 or a
Samsung Galaxy S22, to an iPhone, then yes, the Android device is more secure than the iPhone
(at least if the owner isn¹t installing Android
apps from unknown sources).
But low-end Android devices don¹t have the
same level of hardware security as the higher-end devices.
Apple gets credit for coming out with the Secure Enclave, but Samsung, Google, Huawei, now have the equivalent in their higher-end phones.
As to the operating system, it is true that the later versions of
Android don¹t have the code execution vulnerabilities that have been
being discovered in iOS. This is due to a fundamental difference of how
the operating systems are structured.
Andy Burnelli wrote:
With the huge number of zero-day holes in iOS that Apple has never
once found on their own, can anyone logically refute the summary in
the title?
*No smartphone is less secure than an Apple smartphone*
Worse, if you're not on iOS 16, even Apple says they won't fully patch
it!
Can anyone refute these obvious logical conclusions based on facts?
Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the hands
of common users because we know you lock yours down rather tightly.
People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at all
regardless of what operating system they use.
badgolferman wrote:
Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the
hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather
tightly. People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at
all regardless of what operating system they use.
Hi badgolferman,
That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of
me. What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
security?
A zero-day bug that gives full permission is pretty severe, whether or
not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.
Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they already have
full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock
down.
That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are
so bad. And yet, Apple isn't even looking for them (based on the
evidence).
Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.
Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible
public.
*Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they
lie* (Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)
Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you
like I have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in
their lives.
In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
That's just a fact, right?
Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google
Project Zero said half of them are the same exploit done again a
different way.
Given Apple found zero of the zero-day exploits, and given half of
them are already known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear
Apple isn't even looking for zero-day bugs, right?
Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple
has, multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that >correctly).
The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they
already fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are
foreseeable, tells me that Apple isn't even looking for those bugs
(which is my key point).
Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to
the iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for
the iPhone.
Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or
Android Which do you think?
Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd
know the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most
zero days.
Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than
that.
What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
security?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or
any-day)
how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?
sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.
I know when my anti-virus program detects something or my computer is
acting differently. I also know how to disinfect it. There is no such method of detection or disinfection for the iPhone which is readily
available to me, is there?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or
any-day)
how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?
sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.
-- why are there zero-day exploits at all?
-- what does Android do that's different than Apple?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)
Andy Burnelli wrote:
badgolferman wrote:
Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the
hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather
tightly. People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at
all regardless of what operating system they use.
Hi badgolferman,
That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of
me. What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
security?
A zero-day bug that gives full permission is pretty severe, whether or
not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.
Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they already have
full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock
down.
That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are
so bad. And yet, Apple isn't even looking for them (based on the
evidence).
Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.
Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible
public.
*Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they
lie* (Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)
Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you
like I have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in
their lives.
In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
That's just a fact, right?
Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google
Project Zero said half of them are the same exploit done again a
different way.
Given Apple found zero of the zero-day exploits, and given half of
them are already known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear
Apple isn't even looking for zero-day bugs, right?
Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple
has, multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that
correctly).
The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they
already fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are
foreseeable, tells me that Apple isn't even looking for those bugs
(which is my key point).
Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to
the iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for
the iPhone.
Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or
Android Which do you think?
Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd
know the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most
zero days.
Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than
that.
What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
security?
Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
head. So here are some more questions:
-- why are there zero-day exploits at all?
-- what does Android do that's different than Apple?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)
nospam wrote:
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or
any-day)
how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?
sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.
I know when my anti-virus program detects something or my computer is
acting differently. I also know how to disinfect it.
There is no such method of detection or disinfection for the iPhone
which is readily available to me, is there?
Andy Burnelli wrote:
badgolferman wrote:
Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the
hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather
tightly. People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at
all regardless of what operating system they use.
Hi badgolferman,
That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of
me. What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
security?
A zero-day bug that gives full permission is pretty severe, whether or
not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.
Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they already have
full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock
down.
That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are
so bad. And yet, Apple isn't even looking for them (based on the
evidence).
Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.
Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible
public.
*Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they
lie* (Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)
Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you
like I have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in
their lives.
In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
That's just a fact, right?
Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google
Project Zero said half of them are the same exploit done again a
different way.
Given Apple found zero of the zero-day exploits, and given half of
them are already known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear
Apple isn't even looking for zero-day bugs, right?
Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple
has, multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that
correctly).
The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they
already fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are
foreseeable, tells me that Apple isn't even looking for those bugs
(which is my key point).
Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to
the iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for
the iPhone.
Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or
Android Which do you think?
Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd
know the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most
zero days.
Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than
that.
What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
security?
Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
head. So here are some more questions:
-- why are there zero-day exploits at all?
-- what does Android do that's different than Apple?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)
Just do a search on the app store and you'll find a load of anti-virus
apps, privacy blockers, etc. from all the usual names like Macafee,
Norton, etc.
The reality is that you do not need any of them since despite all the
claims (mostly by anti-malware makers and know-nothing trolls), nobody
in the real world has ever had a problem unless doing something stupid
like visitin porn sites and using pirate / jailbreak apps.
Apple patches zero-day and other vulnerabilities as they are discovered. Meanwhile, Pegasus for Android does not require zero-day vulnerabilities
to root the target device and install the malware. Instead, the threat
uses an otherwise well-known rooting technique called Framaroot. They literally walk right in the front door. Anyone calling that "more
secure" has a screw loose.
Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
head. So here are some more questions:
-- why are there zero-day exploits at all?
-- what does Android do that's different than Apple?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)
As usual, Arlen/Andy/Dean/etc., is not telling the whole story.
If you compare a flagship Android device like a Google Pixel 7 or a
Samsung Galaxy S22, to an iPhone, then yes, the Android device is more
secure than the iPhone
demonstrably false.
(at least if the owner isn¹t installing Android
apps from unknown sources).
even without that
But low-end Android devices don¹t have the
same level of hardware security as the higher-end devices.
sometimes, but that's not a significant factor.
the reality is that it's easier to compromise an android device than an
ios device.
Apple gets credit for coming out with the Secure Enclave, but Samsung,
Google, Huawei, now have the equivalent in their higher-end phones.
at least you admit android is always playing catch-up.
As to the operating system, it is true that the later versions of
Android don¹t have the code execution vulnerabilities that have been
being discovered in iOS. This is due to a fundamental difference of how
the operating systems are structured.
not only is that claim false, but the reasoning is laughable. if
anything, the structure of android makes it *easier* to pwn.
If you compare a flagship Android device like a Google Pixel 7 or a
Samsung Galaxy S22, to an iPhone, then yes, the Android device is more
secure than the iPhone
demonstrably false.
(at least if the owner isn¹t installing Android
apps from unknown sources).
even without that
But low-end Android devices don¹t have the
same level of hardware security as the higher-end devices.
sometimes, but that's not a significant factor.
the reality is that it's easier to compromise an android device than an
ios device.
Apple gets credit for coming out with the Secure Enclave, but Samsung,
Google, Huawei, now have the equivalent in their higher-end phones.
at least you admit android is always playing catch-up.
As to the operating system, it is true that the later versions of
Android don¹t have the code execution vulnerabilities that have been
being discovered in iOS. This is due to a fundamental difference of how
the operating systems are structured.
not only is that claim false, but the reasoning is laughable. if
anything, the structure of android makes it *easier* to pwn.
There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
makers anyway.
In article <tkjksh$71m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
Just do a search on the app store and you'll find a load of anti-virus
apps, privacy blockers, etc. from all the usual names like Macafee,
Norton, etc.
no you won't, since anti-malware apps are not allowed.
content blockers are entirely different, and on ios, they're designed
so that pwning is virtually impossible (nothing is 100% perfect).
The reality is that you do not need any of them since despite all the
claims (mostly by anti-malware makers and know-nothing trolls), nobody
in the real world has ever had a problem unless doing something stupid
like visitin porn sites and using pirate / jailbreak apps.
this is false.
Your Name wrote:
There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
makers anyway.
Hi nospam,
On that topic of anti-malware apps for iOS, and while I don't use anti-malware programs on my smartphones and iPads, certainly they are advertised to exist for iOS, aren't they? (albeit, mostly shills)
*Best antiviruses for iPhone ?V our detailed list*
<https://cybernews.com/best-antivirus-software/antivirus-for-iphone/>
*Best iPhone antivirus apps in 2022: top iOS security protection*
<https://www.techradar.com/best/best-iphone-antivirus-app>
*The best antivirus apps for the iPhone*
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-antivirus-for-iphone/>
Your Name wrote:
There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any
anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
makers anyway.
Hi nospam,
Jolly Roger wrote:
Apple patches zero-day and other vulnerabilities as they are discovered.
Meanwhile, Pegasus for Android does not require zero-day vulnerabilities
to root the target device and install the malware. Instead, the threat
uses an otherwise well-known rooting technique called Framaroot. They
literally walk right in the front door. Anyone calling that "more
secure" has a screw loose.
Hi badgolferman,
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