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  • What have we lost?

    From Bbslocal@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 25 21:05:47 2022
    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over, and
    most people have never experienced anything else. Over the years,
    though, many other system designs have come and gone, and some of those
    systems have had neat ideas that were nevertheless not enough to
    achieve commercial success. We will take you on a tour of a variety of
    those systems, talking about what makes them special.
    In particular, we'll discuss IBM i, with emphasis on the Single Level
    Store, TIMI, and block terminals Interlisp, the Lisp Machine with the
    interface of Smalltalk OpenGenera, with a unique approach to UI design
    TRON, Japan's ambitious OS standard.

    This is an hour-long watch, but I;m getting some coffee and snacks
    ready this weekend. This seems like total OSNews bait.

    https://www.osnews.com/story/135225/what-have-we-lost/
    --
    [s]
    Internetado.
    --- If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to Bbslocal on Fri Aug 26 09:06:14 2022
    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300
    "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net> wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of
    people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Spiros Bousbouras@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Fri Aug 26 09:28:49 2022
    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:06:14 +0200
    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300
    "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net> wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    I suspect that when the article
    (www.osnews.com/story/135225/what-have-we-lost/ quoting the description of www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RNbIEJvjUA) talks about Unix , it includes Linux. I haven't watched the video but that's my guess. I certainly think Linux as
    Unix. What matters for me is the programming environment rather than certification and in that sense Linux counts as Unix.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to Spiros Bousbouras on Fri Aug 26 11:45:51 2022
    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:28:49 -0000 (UTC)
    Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:

    I certainly think Linux as
    Unix. What matters for me is the programming environment rather than certification and in that sense Linux counts as Unix.

    Ok, for that is is true, but often these terms are used otherwise.
    I would count Linux to UNIX-like operating systems.

    --
    Gruß
    Marco

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Eager@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Fri Aug 26 11:44:26 2022
    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:06:14 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300 "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net> wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    That's correct. Linux is merely a jumped up wannabe UNIX.


    --
    Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
    http://www.mirrorservice.org

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to news0009@eager.cx on Fri Aug 26 14:08:25 2022
    Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:06:14 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300 "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net>
    wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of
    people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    That's correct. Linux is merely a jumped up wannabe UNIX.

    Wannabe? It has both streams AND sockets!
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 26 17:41:44 2022
    Am 26 Aug 2022 14:08:25 -0000
    schrieb kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey):

    Wannabe? It has both streams AND sockets!

    True, but the GNU project means GNU is not UNIX, because it is just a compatible rewrite. The Linux kernel has been added to it, but it isn't
    UNIX too, it is just (mostly) compatible with it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eli the Bearded@21:1/5 to mo01@posteo.de on Fri Aug 26 19:19:51 2022
    In comp.misc, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    schrieb kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey):
    Wannabe? It has both streams AND sockets!
    True, but the GNU project means GNU is not UNIX, because it is just a compatible rewrite. The Linux kernel has been added to it, but it
    isn't UNIX too, it is just (mostly) compatible with it.

    Alpine offers a complete non-Gnu Linux. Gnu just wants to be
    self-important and put their name first.

    (I don't know how much Android uses Gnu, but I suspect not much.)

    Elijah
    ------
    leans anti-Gnu, but likes the grep

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 27 14:44:08 2022
    Am Fri, 26 Aug 2022 19:19:51 -0000 (UTC)
    schrieb Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>:

    Alpine offers a complete non-Gnu Linux. Gnu just wants to be
    self-important and put their name first.

    (I don't know how much Android uses Gnu, but I suspect not much.)

    I don't see a problem with the GNU project. They did and still do a lot
    of work - for free and everybody has certain freedoms.

    I know that the name dispute is nasty, but I can understand it a little
    bit why they're doing it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Zecharia Sitchin@21:1/5 to Bob Eager on Sat Aug 27 16:19:58 2022
    On 26 Aug 2022 11:44:26 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:06:14 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300 "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net>
    wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of
    people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    That's correct. Linux is merely a jumped up wannabe UNIX.

    There is a reason why I like to refer them as "toynix" ...

    --
    "dated to the ninth"

    Zecharia

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to mo01@posteo.de on Sun Aug 28 20:28:37 2022
    In article <teapjq$kf1$1@dont-email.me>, Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote: >Am 26 Aug 2022 14:08:25 -0000
    schrieb kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey):

    Wannabe? It has both streams AND sockets!

    True, but the GNU project means GNU is not UNIX, because it is just a >compatible rewrite. The Linux kernel has been added to it, but it isn't
    UNIX too, it is just (mostly) compatible with it.

    Linux has nothing to do with the GNU project except in that most Linux distributions bundle in a lot of GNU software, as rms is so fond of telling everyone.
    --scott


    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Jackson@21:1/5 to Zecharia Sitchin on Tue Aug 30 14:58:41 2022
    On 2022-08-27, Zecharia Sitchin <zsitchin@nibiru.planet> wrote:
    On 26 Aug 2022 11:44:26 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:06:14 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300 "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net>
    wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of
    people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    That's correct. Linux is merely a jumped up wannabe UNIX.

    There is a reason why I like to refer them as "toynix" ...

    I've never understood that attitude. Even 15-20 years ago when I was
    employed as a sysadmin at a UK university, Linux was as robust and as
    competent as any of the "proper" Unices that we ran, and it worked with
    more hardware.

    There is a reason why the worlds supercomputers are linux based, and why
    most of the cloud and major web infrastructure is also predominantly
    linux based. And why the ARM ecosphere is also Linux based.
    Anything thats cuts across that lot is not a "toy".

    I have a lot of respect for some of the BSDs - more so now with things
    like systemd - but to an outsider like me, their development processes
    seem a lot less open.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthk@21:1/5 to Bob Eager on Thu Sep 1 13:11:51 2022
    On 2022-08-26, Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:
    On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 09:06:14 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

    On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 21:05:47 -0300 "Bbslocal" <bbslocal@bbs.alt119.net>
    wrote:

    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over

    No, UNIX is almost dead when we talk about the spreading. The amount of
    people using BSD, Solaris, HP-UX and AIX is much lower compared to the
    amount of Linux machines.
    Every Android device has a Linux kernel.

    That's correct. Linux is merely a jumped up wannabe UNIX.



    Current Unix' vision it's plan9 (better embraced into 9front).

    Unix as a philosphy is dead. Mac OSX it's a weird blend between
    NeXTSTep and the classic Macintosh interface, and OpenBSD
    began to put pledge and unveil. Very good, but plan9/9front's
    namespaces and the "your PC it's a network" concept it's far
    superior.

    Also, I'd consider Acme a much better Emacs than Emacs, and a
    proper conception for a visual editor as a step from ed/sam
    instead of vi/nvi.
    But, well, 9front guys fixed some concepts in sam, such as
    allowing the user to switch into the command pane
    with a keybinding, much faster than moving the mouse and
    clicking/chording a command.

    Under my OpenBSD machine, I use both the kbd and mouse with
    cwm, too. I set the keybindg with the left super key and
    the rest goes for keys reachable with the left hand, while I use
    the mouse to move/resize the windows.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Oregonian Haruspex@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 8 20:13:46 2022
    eMacs is the modern Lisp Machine. How is it not?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Y A@21:1/5 to Bbslocal on Sat Feb 11 08:12:13 2023
    We lose nothing, because everything gets all the time better.





    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:01:03 AM UTC+3, Bbslocal wrote:
    We have ended up in a world where UNIX and Windows have taken over, and
    most people have never experienced anything else. Over the years,
    though, many other system designs have come and gone, and some of those systems have had neat ideas that were nevertheless not enough to
    achieve commercial success. We will take you on a tour of a variety of
    those systems, talking about what makes them special.
    In particular, we'll discuss IBM i, with emphasis on the Single Level
    Store, TIMI, and block terminals Interlisp, the Lisp Machine with the interface of Smalltalk OpenGenera, with a unique approach to UI design
    TRON, Japan's ambitious OS standard.

    This is an hour-long watch, but I;m getting some coffee and snacks
    ready this weekend. This seems like total OSNews bait.

    https://www.osnews.com/story/135225/what-have-we-lost/
    --
    [s]
    Internetado.
    --- If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)