• Don't Lie To Me About Web 2.0

    From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 2 16:03:00 2022
    Don't Lie To Me About Web 2.0

    If you're like me and you're trying to keep an open mind that there
    may someday be a non-scam application of blockchains, you've probably
    read some articles about "Web3", which promises to re-decentralize
    the web by something something Blockchain.

    I realize this is far from the most important criticism but i think
    it's really interesting that the standard explanation you find
    replicated nearly word-for-word at the beginning of most "Web3"
    articles has a big ol' chunk of historical revisionism in it. It
    goes like this:

    "First there was web 1.0, which was, like, geocities pages and stuff,
    and it was decentralized. Then there was web 2.0, which was the
    centralized silos of social media - facebook, twitter, etc. Now
    Web3 is gonna re-decentralize everything by letting you own your own
    data on the blockchain..."

    No! Stop there! Web 2.0 was not social media! You're rewriting
    history that's less than 20 years old!

    Web 2.0 was:

    * blogs with comment sections
    * wikis (wikipedia was far from the first wiki!)
    * forums (that is, discussion that was previously on Usenet migrating
    to like phpBB web forums)
    * bookmark sharing sites like Del.icio.us
    * user-defined tagging systems as in del.icio.us (and computer nerds
    who spent a lot of time defining taxonomies being blown away when
    it turned out you could let users define their own tags and a
    useful system could organically emerge)
    * on a technical, behind-the-scenes level, static HTML files,
    server-side includes, and Perl CGI scripts were getting replaced
    with structured, database-backed web frameworks (Ruby on Rails,
    Drupal, etc.)
    * AJAX as a way of loading content dynamically into a page without
    the user navigating to a new page
    * Javascript in general allowing more full-featured applications - as
    did Flash
    * RSS feed as a user-defined way of aggregating content

    when someone tried to buzzwordify all these disparate trends they
    noticed that what a lot of them had in common was "Website owner
    allows website visitors to enter words that will be seen by other
    website visitors" and summed that up as "User-generated content" and
    branded it "Web 2.0" around 2004-2005.

    I was there. I worked on backends for a lot of this stuff!

    The key shift was where things were hosted. In Web 2.0 you might use off-the-shelf software like WordPress or phpBB or whatever but you
    were still hosting all that stuff on your own server. Your server,
    your rules; you'd set your own moderation policy and wield your own "banhammer". The free speech compromise was "don't like my
    moderation policy? Make your own website."

    It was a huge paradigm shift in 2005-6 when YouTube started and said
    "we'll host your videos for you". (What? trust a third-party website
    to host my videos? Sounds sketchy) That was the beginning of the
    end, because once people gave up running their own server in favor of
    letting a big company host their stuff on a centralized server, we
    gave up all the power.

    Social media wasn't web 2.0, it's what killed Web 2.0!

    You might think I'm arguing over mere nomenclature but the important
    fact is that this era existed, and the Web3 pitch pretends it didn't.
    We already had decentralized internet with social features. This
    fact contradicts the story the Web3/blockchain advocates want to tell
    you, so their story skips this entire era.

    Web 2.0 lost to siloed social media because:

    * running your own server is a pain
    * running your own server costs money, especially if you want to host
    video
    * signing up for facebook/twitter/etc is much easier for
    non-computer-literate users, who outnumber us 1,000 to 1
    * once there's a critical mass of users there, anybody who wants an
    audience has to be there (network effects)
    * non-technical users didn't understand about paying with their
    privacy, and in most cases had no experience with the freedom they
    were giving up
    * the price was not apparent until everybody was locked in
    * Apple made a fateful decision that mobile-phone internet should be
    app-centric, not browser/website centric. Then Android copied
    their mistake.

    To make the web3 argument you have to explain why "a distributed
    ledger where each update contains a cryptographically signed pointer
    to the previous update, replicated across many computers via a
    decentralized protocol, that rewards people for hosting nodes by
    paying them pretend money when they brute-force solve a cryptographic
    hash" is relevant to any of these problems. I suspect it is not
    relevant, because:

    * the blockchain is incredibly slow, inefficient, and
    energy-intensive, and it can only hold miniscule amounts of data.
    (The ape pictures are not on the chain, only links to them are on
    the chain). So everything still has to be hosted elsewhere.
    * for most web3 stuff "the" blockchain means the Ethereum blockchain,
    where it sometimes costs thousands of dollars to make a single
    transaction process.
    * people who don't want to run their own webserver sure as heck
    aren't gonna run their own blockchain node
    * in practice, people don't interact with the blockchain directly,
    but through intermediarires (coinbase.com etc), who inevitably
    become centralized.
    * in practice, control over blockchain itself, for any popular
    blockchain, is highly centralized to a tiny number of the largest
    mining consortiums

    if you want to make the dream of "buy your Minecraft skin as an NFT
    and bring it with you to wear in Fortnight!" work (why is this the
    example every article uses?) you would need to get all the games
    involved to decide to implement equivalent items, or some kind of
    framework of item portability, and if you could do that then you
    wouldn't need the blockchain!

    What might help solve any of the problems that killed Web 2.0:

    * cheap and easy (EASY!) web hosting
    * portable data standards
    * antitrust enforcement with teeth
    * privacy laws around data collection that make the centralized
    social media business model unprofitable
    * a critical mass of dissatisfaction with corporate social media

    I want a decentralized internet to come back more than anybody, but
    blockchain is completely irrelevant to that.

    From:

    https://accordion-druid.tumblr.com/post/685175656750972928/ dont-lie-to-me-about-web-20

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  • From Adrian Caspersz@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Mon Jul 4 18:58:43 2022
    On 02/07/2022 17:03, Ben Collver wrote:
    Don't Lie To Me About Web 2.0

    If you're like me and you're trying to keep an open mind that there
    may someday be a non-scam application of blockchains, you've probably
    read some articles about "Web3", which promises to re-decentralize
    the web by something something Blockchain.

    Web3 =>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3

    Web 3.0 =>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web

    Confusion reigns.

    --
    Adrian C

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  • From Andy K.@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 7 10:33:44 2022
    T24gTW9uLCA0IEp1bCAyMDIyIDE4OjU4OjQzICswMTAwDQpBZHJpYW4gQ2FzcGVyc3ogd3JvdGU6 DQoNCj4gT24gMDIvMDcvMjAyMiAxNzowMywgQmVuIENvbGx2ZXIgd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gRG9uJ3Qg TGllIFRvIE1lIEFib3V0IFdlYiAyLjANCj4gPiANCj4gPiBJZiB5b3UncmUgbGlrZSBtZSBhbmQg eW91J3JlIHRyeWluZyB0byBrZWVwIGFuIG9wZW4gbWluZCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlDQo+ID4gbWF5IHNv bWVkYXkgYmUgYSBub24tc2NhbSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBvZiBibG9ja2NoYWlucywgeW91J3ZlIHBy b2JhYmx5DQo+ID4gcmVhZCBzb21lIGFydGljbGVzIGFib3V0ICJXZWIzIiwgd2hpY2ggcHJvbWlz ZXMgdG8gcmUtZGVjZW50cmFsaXplDQo+ID4gdGhlIHdlYiBieSBzb21ldGhpbmcgc29tZXRoaW5n IEJsb2NrY2hhaW4uICANCj4gDQo+IFdlYjMgPT4NCj4gICBodHRwczovL2VuLndpa2lwZWRpYS5v cmcvd2lraS9XZWIzDQo+IA0KPiBXZWIgMy4wID0+DQo+ICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEu b3JnL3dpa2kvU2VtYW50aWNfV2ViDQo+IA0KPiBDb25mdXNpb24gcmVpZ25zLg0KPiANCg0KTm93 IHNvbWVvbmUgbmVlZHMgdG8gY29tZSB1cCB3aXRoICJXZWIgMGIxMSIgb3Igc29tZXRoaW5nLiBX ZSBuZWVkIHRvDQp1c2UgdXAgYWxsIHRoZSB3YXlzIHRoZSBudW1iZXIgdGhyZWUgY2FuIGJlIGV4 cHJlc3NlZCBpbiEgOi0pDQoNCi0tIA0KQW5keUsNCg==

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  • From Eric Pozharski@21:1/5 to Andy K. on Thu Jul 7 11:22:50 2022
    with <ta65p8$b25k$1@dont-email.me> Andy K. wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:58:43 +0100
    Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 02/07/2022 17:03, Ben Collver wrote:

    *SKIP*
    If you're like me and you're trying to keep an open mind that there
    may someday be a non-scam application of blockchains, you've
    probably read some articles about "Web3", which promises to
    re-decentralize the web by something something Blockchain.
    Web3 => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3
    Web 3.0 => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web
    Confusion reigns.
    Now someone needs to come up with "Web 0b11" or something. We need to
    use up all the ways the number three can be expressed in! :-)

    That's easy. Unicode to the rescue: Web³, Web₃, Web٣, Web๓, (skipping three-per-em-space here), We⃛b (Web⃛ isn't "aesteticaly pleasant" ;) ), WebⅢ (returning to roots!), Web③ (doing full circle here!), Web3 (like solid).

    p.s. Also, terminal fonts are somtimes lacking (at generally acceptable resolutions).

    p.p.s. It's urban legend, that Japanese people can't stand number four.
    I see problem here. Anyone ready to bet The Industry will go directly
    to Web5?

    --
    Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
    Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

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  • From Otto J. Makela@21:1/5 to Eric Pozharski on Fri Jul 8 13:40:57 2022
    Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:

    p.p.s. It's urban legend, that Japanese people can't stand number
    four. I see problem here. Anyone ready to bet The Industry will go
    directly to Web5?

    That's because original sinotic form of å›› "four" sounds like
    æ­» "death", both are transliterated as /É•i/. In modern Japanese,
    perhaps due to this, four is read as /jõ̞ɴ/.

    --
    /* * * Otto J. Makela <om@iki.fi> * * * * * * * * * */
    /* Phone: +358 40 765 5772, ICBM: N 60 10' E 24 55' */
    /* Mail: Mechelininkatu 26 B 27, FI-00100 Helsinki */
    /* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * */

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  • From Ant@21:1/5 to Otto J. Makela on Fri Jul 8 15:58:11 2022
    Otto J. Makela <om@iki.fi> wrote:
    Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name> wrote:

    p.p.s. It's urban legend, that Japanese people can't stand number
    four. I see problem here. Anyone ready to bet The Industry will go
    directly to Web5?

    That's because original sinotic form of ??? "four" sounds like
    ??? "death", both are transliterated as /??i/. In modern Japanese,
    perhaps due to this, four is read as /jõ????/.

    Chinese too.
    --
    Somewhat slammy Thursday. So many killings this week. :(
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
    / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
    | |o o| |
    \ _ /
    ( )

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  • From Zibon Badi@21:1/5 to Andy K. on Sat Jul 9 11:24:04 2022
    Andy K. <andy.k466@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:58:43 +0100
    Adrian Caspersz wrote:

    On 02/07/2022 17:03, Ben Collver wrote:
    Don't Lie To Me About Web 2.0

    If you're like me and you're trying to keep an open mind that there
    may someday be a non-scam application of blockchains, you've probably
    read some articles about "Web3", which promises to re-decentralize
    the web by something something Blockchain.

    Web3 =>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3

    Web 3.0 =>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web

    Confusion reigns.


    Now someone needs to come up with "Web 0b11" or something. We need to
    use up all the ways the number three can be expressed in! :-)


    I suggest we adopt the USB naming convention instead. Have a Web 3 followed
    by a Web 3.0 followed by a Web 3.1 followed by a Web 3.33 followed by a Web
    3.1 Gen 2 followed by a followed by a Web 3.2 followed by a Web 3.11
    followed by a Web 3.1 Gen 2x4.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Zibon Badi on Sun Jul 10 04:00:53 2022
    "Zibon Badi" <zibonbadi@nowhere.invalid> writes:

    I'd suggest we instead go the USB route. A Web3 followed by a 3.0
    followed by 3.1 followed by Web 3.11 followed by Web 3.33 follwed by
    Web 3.2 followed by Web 3.1 Gen 2 followed by Web 3.23 followed by
    USB 3.2 Gen 2x4.

    Or just go straight from Web 3.1 to Web 95?

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From Ant@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Sun Jul 10 19:46:39 2022
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    "Zibon Badi" <zibonbadi@nowhere.invalid> writes:

    I'd suggest we instead go the USB route. A Web3 followed by a 3.0
    followed by 3.1 followed by Web 3.11 followed by Web 3.33 follwed by
    Web 3.2 followed by Web 3.1 Gen 2 followed by Web 3.23 followed by
    USB 3.2 Gen 2x4.

    Or just go straight from Web 3.1 to Web 95?

    3.11 first!
    --
    Time to replace HP PhotoSmart 8450 from 2005? It's 7/11 eve! Dang young people's parties near the nest.
    Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
    / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
    | |o o| |
    \ _ /
    ( )

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  • From Matthew Ernisse@21:1/5 to Adrian Caspersz on Mon Jul 11 13:43:55 2022
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:58:43 +0100, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 02/07/2022 17:03, Ben Collver wrote:
    Don't Lie To Me About Web 2.0

    If you're like me and you're trying to keep an open mind that there
    may someday be a non-scam application of blockchains, you've probably
    read some articles about "Web3", which promises to re-decentralize
    the web by something something Blockchain.

    Web3 =>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3

    I personally enjoy the moniker "Scumbag Web" for all things blockchain
    related.

    https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/1457751651465449475

    --
    "The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."
    --Kosh

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  • From Andy K.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 11 21:21:56 2022
    T24gRnJpLCAwOCBKdWwgMjAyMiAxNTo1ODoxMSAtMDUwMA0KQW50IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IE90dG8g Si4gTWFrZWxhIDxvbUBpa2kuZmk+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IEVyaWMgUG96aGFyc2tpIDx3aHlub3RA cG96aGFyc2tpLm5hbWU+IHdyb3RlOiAgDQo+IA0KPiA+ID4gcC5wLnMuIEl0J3MgdXJiYW4gbGVn ZW5kLCB0aGF0IEphcGFuZXNlIHBlb3BsZSBjYW4ndCBzdGFuZCBudW1iZXINCj4gPiA+IGZvdXIu IEkgc2VlIHByb2JsZW0gaGVyZS4gQW55b25lIHJlYWR5IHRvIGJldCBUaGUgSW5kdXN0cnkgd2ls bCBnbw0KPiA+ID4gZGlyZWN0bHkgdG8gV2ViNT8gIA0KPiANCj4gPiBUaGF0J3MgYmVjYXVzZSBv cmlnaW5hbCBzaW5vdGljIGZvcm0gb2YgPz8/ICJmb3VyIiBzb3VuZHMgbGlrZQ0KPiA+ID8/PyAi ZGVhdGgiLCBib3RoIGFyZSB0cmFuc2xpdGVyYXRlZCBhcyAvPz9pLy4gSW4gbW9kZXJuIEphcGFu ZXNlLA0KPiA+IHBlcmhhcHMgZHVlIHRvIHRoaXMsIGZvdXIgaXMgcmVhZCBhcyAvasO1Pz8/Py8u ICANCj4gDQo+IENoaW5lc2UgdG9vLg0KDQpTbGlnaHRseSBvdXQgb2YgdG9waWMsIGJ1dCBteSBw ZXQgdGhlb3J5IGlzIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBpcyB3aHkgU1VTRSBoYXMNCmJ1bXBlZCB0aGVpciBTVVNF IExpbnV4IEVudGVycHJpc2UgU2VydmVyIGRpc3RybyBmcm9tIDEyIHN0cmFpZ2h0IHRvIDE1LA0K c2tpcHBpbmcgMTMgKGEgZmFtb3VzIHVubHVja3kgbnVtYmVyKSBhbmQgMTQgKGNvbnRhaW5zIGRp Z2l0DQpkZXNwaXNlZCBpbiBsYXJnZSBwYXJ0cyBvZiBBc2lhKS4NCg0KLS0gDQpBbmR5Sw0K

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  • From Eric Pozharski@21:1/5 to Eric Pozharski on Wed Aug 3 09:17:48 2022
    with <slrntcdgga.oqt.whynot@orphan.zombinet> Eric Pozharski wrote:
    with <ta65p8$b25k$1@dont-email.me> Andy K. wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:58:43 +0100
    Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 02/07/2022 17:03, Ben Collver wrote:

    *SKIP*
    p.p.s. It's urban legend, that Japanese people can't stand number four.
    I see problem here. Anyone ready to bet The Industry will go directly
    to Web5?

    And mere ~week later: https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/12/techdirt-podcast-episode-325-what-is-web5/

    Still, it's not clear what that thing is. At least Mike was
    enthusiastic about background issues (unlike in some other cases).

    p.s. And it's not marketing because... Because Web3 is marketing. The Industry is failing to provide entertainment.

    --
    Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
    Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jaouad zarrabi@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 1 07:40:48 2022
    El miércoles, 3 de agosto de 2022 a las 11:33:07 UTC+2, Eric Pozharski escribió:
    with <slrntcdgga...@orphan.zombinet> Eric Pozharski wrote:
    with <ta65p8$b25k$1...@dont-email.me> Andy K. wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:58:43 +0100
    Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 02/07/2022 17:03, Ben Collver wrote:

    *SKIP*
    p.p.s. It's urban legend, that Japanese people can't stand number four.
    I see problem here. Anyone ready to bet The Industry will go directly
    to Web5?
    And mere ~week later: https://www.techdirt.com/2022/07/12/techdirt-podcast-episode-325-what-is-web5/

    Still, it's not clear what that thing is. At least Mike was
    enthusiastic about background issues (unlike in some other cases).

    p.s. And it's not marketing because... Because Web3 is marketing. The Industry is failing to provide entertainment.
    --
    Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
    Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom
    Franchise Country License for a Construction Development ( €5,500,000.00 ) Become a country developer for green high-tech 3D constructions

    What the Franchisee has to do?

    - Purchase the license
    - Organize of minimum 100.000m2 land at a strategic location
    - Get the initial agreement from the local town hall for receiving the general license
    - Negotiate the tax benefit for the development
    - Launch the host local Franchise firm structure
    - Sometimes a host local bank acquisition will bring its structural benefit
    - All developments up to turnkey will be executed by the GROUP Construction

    - advantage :
    - FRANCHISE shall act as Exclusive Representative of Group at the Host Country with one or several Host Franchise corporations under the Group umbrella FRANCHISE shall act as Representative and be the representative office of Group Bank at the Host
    Country
    - FRANCHISE shall be Representative of the GROUPPay World System
    - FRANCHISE shall receive full Group Green Energy Lease Finance for the construction project
    - FRANCHISE shall have access to Microcredits for Infrastructure Finance

    if you are interesed we need first your passaport + documentos your company and POF
    stars88@gmx.es
    Whatsapp 0034651884888

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