• Quit Shopping For Fun

    From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 18 20:10:18 2024
    Quit Shopping For Fun
    =====================
    A zine with ideas to entertain yourself and others for free

    Created by the FrugalGamer
    <https://thefrugalgamer.net>

    But There's Nothing To DO!
    ==========================
    Yes there is. We entertained ourselves long before "shopping for fun"
    was a thing. Here in this zine you'll find a number of suggestions
    for things you can do to entertain yourself and others for FREE or
    VERY LITTLE money. Because we don't need capitalism in order to keep
    ourselves busy.

    Flip For Cheap Fun
    ==================
    Libraries have far more than just books. Yours may have music, 3D
    Printing, board games, movies, and even video games. Many also host
    community evens & book clubs. Libraries are one of the last places we
    can visit without being expected to pay to get in.

    Writing & Journaling
    ====================
    This doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. But if you like, you
    can create worlds and characters, people, and events entirely in your
    head, for free. Creativity is a wonderful gift, and what most people
    don't realize it's like a muscle. Once you practice, it gets easier!

    Plant & Insect Collecting
    =========================
    Getting to know your local flora can be fascinating and grouding. You
    can collect physically, if you're ok with killing specimens, or with
    photos and drawings, if that bothers you. You can use apps like
    iNaturalist to identify plants, insects, birds (please don't collect
    physical birds!), mushrooms, etc, and then collect info like common
    names, biological facts, lore, and more.

    Learn A New Exercise
    ====================
    With free online videos and sites. If you don't have weights,
    checkout body weight fitness. Other exercises that don't require
    equipment include yoga, pilates, Barre, Zumba, walking, and running.
    All can be done indoors or outdoors. If you have a group of friends
    and access to a court, basketball and soccer/football can be played
    relatively cheaply.

    Playing Cards
    =============
    You can buy them cheap, but most people have an old pack lying around somewhere. They can even be thrifted. Once you have those, they can
    be used to play games with others, or even games by yourself. Here's
    a good site for card game rules:

    <https://www.pagat.com>

    Host A Potluck
    ==============
    You don't need a special occasion to throw a party. Save on costs by
    asking everyone to bring their favorite dish. Time spent with others
    is always meaningful.

    Make Board Games
    ================
    Did you know there's an entire category of board games called
    "print and play"? Many board games can get expensive, but decades ago
    people would just make them from scratch. Check out boardgamegeek.com
    for a list of new and old DIY board games:

    <https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-and-play>

    String Games
    ============
    These aren't that popular anymore, but they've been enjoyed by
    indigenous cultures all over the world for centuries. I was given a
    book about them as a kid and spent hours practicing them. For a good
    book covering a number of them, check out this book here:

    <https://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/stringgames.pdf>

    Origami
    =======
    Many origami books insist you buy specialty paper for this hobby, but schoolchildren have been making digures out of their notebook paper
    for ages without any issues. All you need is to cut whatever thin
    paper you have to be square. There are tons of instructions online,
    but here is a good place to start:

    <https://origami.guide>

    Learn A Language
    ================
    We're all familiar with DuoLingo, thanks to their massive advertising
    campaign, but there are tons of other language learning services as
    well. Your library may have a partnership with other apps, and will
    have books and audiobooks on the topic.

    OpenCulture.com has a section just for free language courses. Check
    out the link below for more:

    <https://www.openculture.com/freelanguagelessons>

    Learn To Program
    ================
    Programming books and courses are all over the place for free, and
    once you're comfortable with once, you can make your own sotware
    tools instead of having to buy there. Here are some I recommend:

    * Javascript
    All you need is a text editor and a browser to get started

    * C
    C has been around forever and there are a ton of resources

    * Rust
    Very popular and commonly used today

    * Python
    Incredibly useful for fetching and altering data

    Letterboxing/Geocaching
    =======================
    These games and their variants all have a similar premise: locations
    and GPS coordinates are posted online, and players hunt around to
    find "drops" that others have hidden. Letterbox caches have a rubber
    stamp for players to add to their log books, while geocachers sign
    their name and date at the site. Some incorporate puzzles and players
    must solve hints before finding cache spots.

    Check Letterboxing.org and Geocaching.com to see if there are players
    in your area.

    Mail Art
    ========
    If you're artistically inclined, and you like getting mail, you might
    join an online Mail art group. Artists online swap themes and
    addresses, and send each other small unique pieces of artwork via
    snail mail. Check Sawp-bot.com for all different kinds of swaps and
    more info.

    Volunteer
    =========
    People are always looking for help, and spending your time helping
    others will usually always leave you feeling better. Here are some
    ideas for different places to volunteer at:

    * Animal shelter
    * Library
    * Food bank
    * Meals on Wheels
    * Adult literacy organizations

    Not all of these may be available in your local area, but with some
    looking you can probably find some one in need of help.

    Freezer Paper Stencils
    ======================
    Ever wanted to customize your clothes, but don't know how to sew?
    Want to create cool painting buys you can't paint or draw well? Try
    stenciling! All you need is a craft knife, an iron, and some freezer
    paper, found in the storage section of the grocery store. You can
    trace and cut any image you find onto the non-waxy side of the paper,
    the iron the waxy side onto wahtever you'd like to customize, then
    paint over it. You can make more complex images using more than one
    stencil, layered on top of your image, if you have the time.

    And Finally, Some Advice
    ========================
    Whenever you're feeling angry, depressed, frustrated etc. If there's
    nothing else you can do, either clean or exercise. It won't fix the
    issue, but you'll feel better, and you'll have something to show for
    it, either a cleaner space, or a slightly healthier body.

    Take care of yourself :)

    ---
    Licensed under CC-BY 4.0
    Please share!

    From: <https://html-classic.itch.zone/html/10448310/3Zines/
    zine_hobbies.txt>

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  • From yeti@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Sat May 18 21:25:58 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    Learn To Program
    ================
    Programming books and courses are all over the place for free, and
    once you're comfortable with once, you can make your own sotware
    tools instead of having to buy there. Here are some I recommend:

    * Javascript
    All you need is a text editor and a browser to get started

    * C
    C has been around forever and there are a ton of resources

    * Rust
    Very popular and commonly used today

    * Python
    Incredibly useful for fetching and altering data

    If you already know lots of languages some of them sure will have
    collected a bit (or a byte) of dust. Check out e.g. Project Euler and
    solve some of those tasks in multiple languages you haven't touched for
    a while.

    <https://projecteuler.net/>

    Maybe try AWK, DC or SH for some of those problems?

    --
    I do not bite, I just want to play.

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Sat May 18 21:17:57 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    Quit Shopping For Fun
    Learn A Language
    Learn To Program

    The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.

    The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.

    Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
    machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.

    All is vanity and grasping for the wind!

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Sun May 19 05:37:56 2024
    On 18 May 2024 21:17:57 GMT, Stefan Ram wrote:

    The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.

    To some, life is a game. Whoever dies with the most toys wins.

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  • From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Sun May 19 13:39:35 2024
    On 2024-05-18, Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    Quit Shopping For Fun
    Learn A Language
    Learn To Program

    The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.

    The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.

    Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
    machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.

    All is vanity and grasping for the wind!

    Use it or lose it. True learning is fun and playful and improves
    quality of life while we still have it. If it were mere aquisition
    of mental possessions, i would quickly become bored with it.

    He comprehended that the effort to mold the incoherent and
    vertiginous matter dreams are made of was the most arduous task
    [one] could undertake... much more arduous than weaving a rope
    of sand or coining the faceless wind...
    --Jorge Luis Borges

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  • From Johanne Fairchild@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Sun May 19 15:43:50 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    On 2024-05-18, Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    Quit Shopping For Fun
    Learn A Language
    Learn To Program

    The acquisition of possessions is but vanity.

    The study of tongues doth also prove vain in the end.

    Even the mastery of the languages by which we instruct
    machines bringeth only a vapor that swiftly dissipates.

    All is vanity and grasping for the wind!

    Use it or lose it. True learning is fun and playful and improves
    quality of life while we still have it. If it were mere aquisition
    of mental possessions, i would quickly become bored with it.

    That's pretty tricky as might be quite aware. I think Stefan Ram is
    precisely talking about True Learning. Intellectual acquisition, I'm
    afraid, is no different from other kinds of acquisition. All is
    grasping for the wind!

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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Sun May 19 20:04:23 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    Quit Shopping For Fun
    =====================
    A zine with ideas to entertain yourself and others for free

    Created by the FrugalGamer
    <https://thefrugalgamer.net>

    [snip]

    Writing & Journaling
    ====================
    This doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. But if you like, you
    can create worlds and characters, people, and events entirely in your
    head, for free. Creativity is a wonderful gift, and what most people
    don't realize it's like a muscle. Once you practice, it gets easier!

    Indeed it doesn't work for everyone. I have several friends whom I
    see f2f infrequently for various reasons. They're all university
    educated, some with advanced degrees, one with a PhD in English
    literature.

    And I can't get them to write me letters. They all have and use email
    but the best I can evoke from them is a short paragraph, more usually
    a couple of lines. "What do you think about [whatever]?" "What've
    you been thinking about?" More generally, "What's happenin'?" fail to
    provoke a couple of dozen sentences of reflective text, let alone a
    long reflection/discursion on a topic.

    I admit that when I sometimes take a notion to fire off email to the one exception to the above who lives on the opposite coast, I discover
    that I'm just coming to a conclusion and it's two hours later. It's
    very pleasing to get similar email from him but he's the exception.

    Now that I think of it, the same thing used to happen when I was
    posting a mailing list populated similarly well educated and informed subscribers. Sadly, most of those subscribers have drifted away,
    leaving a couple of people who post stuff from the web by hitting the
    "Send this page as email" button on a web page. Hard to work up
    enthusiasm for a reply to that sort of thing but when I do, put my
    thoughts in order, check that I haven't casually asserted something
    that is verifiably false etc. the response from the remaining
    subscribers is, once again, one-liners.

    And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
    slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
    All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

    This post is in the way of being self-referential as it digresses on a mentioned topic where I could have fired off a one-liner.

    Well, as you say, doesn't work for everyone.

    Make Board Games
    ================
    Did you know there's an entire category of board games called
    "print and play"? Many board games can get expensive, but decades ago
    people would just make them from scratch. Check out boardgamegeek.com
    for a list of new and old DIY board games:

    <https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-and-play>

    One of those sites that is all js, devoid of text. But here's a
    contribution that may or may not be listed there: Spinglasses: The game

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.1839

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Sun May 19 23:32:12 2024
    On 2024-05-19, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
    More generally, "What's happenin'?" fail to
    provoke a couple of dozen sentences of reflective text, let alone a
    long reflection/discursion on a topic.

    And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
    slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
    All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

    Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.

    I have noticed changes in local social conventions. When i was a
    kid, it was okay to drop in unannounced and knock on the door or ring
    the doorbell. If the person was busy, they would either say so, or not
    answer. Now it is considered rude to show up unannounced without
    texting ahead of time.

    I used to do postal correspondence, almost entirely with people who
    were older than me. I no longer do any.

    I am not really into journalling, but i do other kinds of writing,
    and i have dabbled in tabletop role-playing games, mainly using
    video conferencing software and online mapping software. It's a
    creative, literate world-building exercise.

    <https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamecategory/1120/print-and-play>

    One of those sites that is all js, devoid of text. But here's a
    contribution that may or may not be listed there: Spinglasses: The game

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.1839

    I noticed the same thing about boardgamegeek.com.

    I took a peek at the Spinglas PDF and it looks cool, thanks! For
    some reason it brings to mind a completely different type of game,
    Set, which was inspired by genetics rather than physics.

    Here's The Glass Plate Game. It was inspired by Herman Hesse's
    book The Glass Bead Game. I had the good fortune to play GPG at
    Oregon State University with Dunbar Aitkins and several students.

    "The object of playing the game is to spark creative and interesting conversation between the players. Nobody wins."

    https://glassplategame.com/

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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Mon May 20 03:59:10 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    On 2024-05-19, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

    But here's a contribution that may or may not be listed there:
    Spinglasses: The game

    https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.1839

    I took a peek at the Spinglas PDF and it looks cool, thanks!

    I happened on it because Stuart Kauffman's book, The Origins of Order,
    mentions that his NK model of complexity is very similar to spin-glass
    models in statistical physics. Groveling around the web to find out
    what a spin-glass was, I happened on the game. I've never made up the
    pieces and played it. But I'm intrigued that you can make a game
    from the underlying concepts.

    Here's The Glass Plate Game. It was inspired by Herman Hesse's
    book The Glass Bead Game. I had the good fortune to play GPG at
    Oregon State University with Dunbar Aitkins and several students.

    "The object of playing the game is to spark creative and interesting conversation between the players. Nobody wins."

    https://glassplategame.com/

    From the game-play description:

    Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
    no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
    statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
    theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
    nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
    nuisance" is not.

    Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly. Many people
    don't routinely make a conscious distinction between theory,
    knowledge, opinion or even "what I saw in passing on social media last
    week".

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Mon May 20 14:00:46 2024
    On 2024-05-20, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
    Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly. Many people
    don't routinely make a conscious distinction between theory,
    knowledge, opinion or even "what I saw in passing on social media last
    week".

    Good point. I guess people might need a facilitator, starting out.
    Kind of like a GM or a referee.

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Mon May 20 14:20:18 2024
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:
    From the game-play description:
    Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
    no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
    statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
    theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
    nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
    nuisance" is not.
    Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly.

    Well, this is just what I call the distinction between
    a /noun phrase/ and a /verb phrase/.

    "Cars as a vile public nuisance" is a noun phrase,
    "Cars are a vile public nuisance." is a verb phrase (sentence,
    assertion).

    I'm of the opinion that Subject lines on Usenet should
    be noun phrases.

    Using verb phrases (sentences) as Usenet Subject lines is often
    abused to spread one-sided viewpoints.

    I'm talking about "poisoned" thread titles here, because
    people who respond critically are still spreading that message
    further.

    For example, a poisoned Subject line like that could be,
    "John Doe is an idiot."

    If someone then responds with "No, John Doe is a very smart
    man!", they're still doing so under the Subject line
    "Re: John Doe is an idiot," so they're perpetuating that
    statement of the Subject line.

    A reasonable Subject line could go something like:
    "John Doe's mental bandwidth" (a noun phrase).

    To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand
    new thread if I want to respond to something written under
    a poisoned Subject lines.

    ... if I become aware of it. "Quit Shopping For Fun" is also
    a poisoned subject line, because when people superficially
    see (maybe on a Web page where the Usenet is mirrored):

    Stefan Ram - Quit Shopping For Fun

    ("Re:" might sometimes be omitted in such cases) it might
    sound as if /I/ want to tell people, "Quit shopping for fun!".

    So, a less "poisoned" Subject line might just be "Shopping For
    Fun" without the "Quit".

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  • From Rich@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Mon May 20 17:14:19 2024
    Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
    To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand new
    thread if I want to respond to something written under a poisoned
    Subject lines.

    There is no need for a new thread to change the subject line. Just
    change the subject line to a "non-poisned" one. The post will (if
    using a proper Usenet reader) still be linked into the hierarchy of the
    replies connected to the original one.

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Rich on Mon May 20 17:42:40 2024
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
    To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand new
    thread if I want to respond to something written under a poisoned
    Subject lines.
    There is no need for a new thread to change the subject line. Just
    change the subject line to a "non-poisned" one. The post will (if
    using a proper Usenet reader) still be linked into the hierarchy of the >replies connected to the original one.

    Yes. And in such cases such a linking is exactly what I want to avoid.

    In my opinion, today, it's not enough anymore to only take into
    consideration how something looks using a proper newsreader. One
    also might want to think about how it will look when mirrored in
    the Web. In the Web, a post with a changed subject might still
    appear on a page titled by the original subject.

    Back in the day when mirroring on the web wasn't such a common
    practice, I didn't just tweak the subject line, but was a stickler
    for adhering to the "(was: ...)" convention to a T, and if I need to
    change a subject line that isn't poisoned, I still do it this way.

    BTW: Above I used the suggestion "poisoned Subject" I got from a
    translation service. Thinking about it then, I wondered whether
    "tainted Subject" would be more apt. Both are translations of
    the German "vergiftet", but I know "tainted" from "tainted love"
    and "tainted Subject" seems to be similar in the idea. - And
    I used an uppercase "S" in "Subject" because thats the exact tag
    of the Subject line in a Usenet post.

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  • From Johanne Fairchild@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Mon May 20 15:52:20 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    On 2024-05-19, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
    More generally, "What's happenin'?" fail to
    provoke a couple of dozen sentences of reflective text, let alone a
    long reflection/discursion on a topic.

    And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
    slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
    All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

    Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.

    I have noticed changes in local social conventions. When i was a
    kid, it was okay to drop in unannounced and knock on the door or ring
    the doorbell. If the person was busy, they would either say so, or not answer. Now it is considered rude to show up unannounced without
    texting ahead of time.

    I've noticed the same, unfortunately. It's very interesting how the
    world changes only for some (or most) people. It's not an age thing
    because most people who are older than me behave in the new way and some
    very young people do not behave this new way. So I can't explain the phenomenon.

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  • From Johanne Fairchild@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Mon May 20 16:02:52 2024
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    Quit Shopping For Fun
    =====================
    A zine with ideas to entertain yourself and others for free

    Created by the FrugalGamer
    <https://thefrugalgamer.net>

    [snip]

    Writing & Journaling
    ====================
    This doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. But if you like, you
    can create worlds and characters, people, and events entirely in your
    head, for free. Creativity is a wonderful gift, and what most people
    don't realize it's like a muscle. Once you practice, it gets easier!

    Indeed it doesn't work for everyone. I have several friends whom I
    see f2f infrequently for various reasons. They're all university
    educated, some with advanced degrees, one with a PhD in English
    literature.

    And I can't get them to write me letters. They all have and use email
    but the best I can evoke from them is a short paragraph, more usually
    a couple of lines.

    One fact to keep in mind is that it seems desktop computing use has
    lowered drastically in favor of devices that you can't type almost
    anything on. (I also see most people often tired /and/ busy.)

    And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
    slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
    All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

    I agree. I don't think it's an age thing. I exchange e-mails (and NNTP
    posts) on a daily basis with some (busy) young people. (Of course, they
    could be exceptional cases, but then we'd have a lot exceptions in the non-young crowd as well.)

    Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized depressed behavior. When people don't enjoy discussing things, I think
    there's something non-natural going on. (And it doesn't seem to be
    regional either: I'm in the hemisphere opposite to yours.)

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Johanne Fairchild on Mon May 20 19:17:14 2024
    Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote or quoted:
    Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized >depressed behavior.

    This rings a bell about something I caught wind of in
    the papers recently. It was just the opening salvo of
    a German-language article, with the rest locked behind a
    paywall. The part I could scope out basically said:

    (name abbreviated by me, "home" below refers to Germany)

    |Whenever G. is back home for a few days, she just wants to
    |get away: "In Germany, the men all walk around with such long
    |faces, you immerse yourself in this gray world so quickly,"
    |says the 65-year-old. In Italy, on the other hand, everyone
    |says hello on the street, everyone is warm, helpful and in a
    |good mood.

    I'm not totally convinced you can broad-brush those two countries
    based on that one personal experience, though.

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  • From Rich@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Mon May 20 20:05:59 2024
    Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
    with the rest locked behind a
    paywall.

    https://archive.is/ will, in many cases, get around a very many news
    sites 'paywalls'.

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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Johanne Fairchild on Mon May 20 17:42:24 2024
    Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> writes:

    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

    Indeed it doesn't work for everyone. I have several friends whom I
    see f2f infrequently for various reasons. They're all university
    educated, some with advanced degrees, one with a PhD in English
    literature.

    And I can't get them to write me letters. They all have and use email
    but the best I can evoke from them is a short paragraph, more usually
    a couple of lines.

    One fact to keep in mind is that it seems desktop computing use has
    lowered drastically in favor of devices that you can't type almost
    anything on.

    Y'know, I totally overlook/forget that. I'm an amateur/wannabe
    avocationalq programmer since CP/M but have only had a smart phone for
    a year and barely know how to (resentfully, grumblingly) use it at
    all. I have 4 {desk-,lap-}top Linux computers.

    (I also see most people often tired /and/ busy.)

    And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
    slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
    All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

    I agree. I don't think it's an age thing. I exchange e-mails (and NNTP posts) on a daily basis with some (busy) young people. (Of course, they could be exceptional cases, but then we'd have a lot exceptions in the non-young crowd as well.)

    Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized depressed behavior. When people don't enjoy discussing things, I think there's something non-natural going on. (And it doesn't seem to be
    regional either: I'm in the hemisphere opposite to yours.)

    Or don't want to think about things. My one thoughtful, agreeably
    articulate correspondent, a fellow octogenarian, says he's been
    politically active all his adult life but finds the existing US
    political chaos and impending increase in same something that defeats
    ordinary, non-fanatical scrutiny and doesn't want to think about
    it. (He does so anyway, of course, but US politics isn't the bulk of
    our correspondence.)

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From Mike Spencer@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Mon May 20 17:24:28 2024
    ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:

    From the game-play description:

    Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
    no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
    statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
    theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
    nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
    nuisance" is not.

    Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly.

    Well, this is just what I call the distinction between
    a /noun phrase/ and a /verb phrase/.

    "Cars as a vile public nuisance" is a noun phrase,
    "Cars are a vile public nuisance." is a verb phrase (sentence,
    assertion).

    I'm of the opinion that Subject lines on Usenet should
    be noun phrases.

    Using verb phrases (sentences) as Usenet Subject lines is often
    abused to spread one-sided viewpoints.

    I'm talking about "poisoned" thread titles here, because
    people who respond critically are still spreading that message
    further.

    For example, a poisoned Subject line like that could be,
    "John Doe is an idiot."

    You should repost this to alt.usage.english (on topic for an active
    group not flooded with penc) along w/ my quote from the game-play
    description.

    I agree. I sometimes hesitate to follow up to a post to avoid being
    on record as having posted under the "poisoned" topic.

    If someone then responds with "No, John Doe is a very smart
    man!", they're still doing so under the Subject line
    "Re: John Doe is an idiot," so they're perpetuating that
    statement of the Subject line.

    A reasonable Subject line could go something like:
    "John Doe's mental bandwidth" (a noun phrase).

    To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand
    new thread if I want to respond to something written under
    a poisoned Subject lines.

    ... if I become aware of it. "Quit Shopping For Fun" is also
    a poisoned subject line, because when people superficially
    see (maybe on a Web page where the Usenet is mirrored):

    Stefan Ram - Quit Shopping For Fun

    ("Re:" might sometimes be omitted in such cases) it might
    sound as if /I/ want to tell people, "Quit shopping for fun!".

    So, a less "poisoned" Subject line might just be "Shopping For
    Fun" without the "Quit".

    Good catch, interesting take. ()()()

    --
    Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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  • From Johanne Fairchild@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Mon May 20 20:17:38 2024
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

    [...]

    And it can't be blamed on the younger generation with a generational
    slant or karoshi careers so busy that there's no time for reflection.
    All my correspondents are near or past retirement age.

    I agree. I don't think it's an age thing. I exchange e-mails (and NNTP
    posts) on a daily basis with some (busy) young people. (Of course, they
    could be exceptional cases, but then we'd have a lot exceptions in the
    non-young crowd as well.)

    Honestly, what I see in the population at large is a certain generalized
    depressed behavior. When people don't enjoy discussing things, I think
    there's something non-natural going on. (And it doesn't seem to be
    regional either: I'm in the hemisphere opposite to yours.)

    Or don't want to think about things.

    Yes. When you're tired, sick, depressed, there's not enough energy to
    think about things.

    My one thoughtful, agreeably articulate correspondent, a fellow
    octogenarian, says he's been politically active all his adult life but
    finds the existing US political chaos and impending increase in same something that defeats ordinary, non-fanatical scrutiny and doesn't
    want to think about it. (He does so anyway, of course, but US politics
    isn't the bulk of our correspondence.)

    It's the same here. Coincidentally, I have daily conversations with an octogenarian (as well). It's a person who is quite active in every
    aspect of life. It's an intelligent person. We discuss politics,
    science, medicine, what have you, pretty much every day. It's the only octogenarian that I know that can discuss these things. I'm not saying
    this is a knowlegeable person (although it is). I'm saying it's an
    intelligent person. I don't really care whether people have a lot of
    good information. What is very relevant in a conversation is the
    thought process. I used to love to talk to teenagers and up but,
    remarkably, I have not been having much discussion on such topics with
    young people because they're all pretty busy with school work
    (university work). We talk about school work somewhat, but it's all
    very limited because they're exhausted as well. (And I suspect that a
    chunk of the energy also goes into things like TV series and
    video-games.) More importantly, I also suspect that they don't eat the
    best food they could (for various reasons). And I think that might be a
    major problem. I see a strong connection between nutrition and mental
    state, the decisions one makes on a daily basis and the outlook on the
    world and on life.

    It's nice to see you folks here. It's always very nice to see people
    doing well in other places. Thanks for being on the USENET.

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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to Mike Spencer on Tue May 21 13:55:02 2024
    XPost: alt.usage.english

    On 20 May 2024 17:24:28 -0300
    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:


    ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

    Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote or quoted:

    From the game-play description:

    Writing ideas on cards is openended but no opinions are allowed;
    no cards may have a question of truth or falseness. Personal
    statements are to be made only by relating ideas. Still, a
    theory is not an opinion. Thus the idea "cars as a vile public
    nuisance" is acceptable whereas "cars are a vile public
    nuisance" is not.

    Wow. That calls for disciplined thinking on the fly.

    Well, this is just what I call the distinction between
    a /noun phrase/ and a /verb phrase/.

    "Cars as a vile public nuisance" is a noun phrase,
    "Cars are a vile public nuisance." is a verb phrase (sentence,
    assertion).

    I'm of the opinion that Subject lines on Usenet should
    be noun phrases.

    Using verb phrases (sentences) as Usenet Subject lines is often
    abused to spread one-sided viewpoints.

    I'm talking about "poisoned" thread titles here, because
    people who respond critically are still spreading that message
    further.

    For example, a poisoned Subject line like that could be,
    "John Doe is an idiot."

    You should repost this to alt.usage.english (on topic for an active
    group not flooded with penc) along w/ my quote from the game-play description.

    I agree. I sometimes hesitate to follow up to a post to avoid being
    on record as having posted under the "poisoned" topic.

    If someone then responds with "No, John Doe is a very smart
    man!", they're still doing so under the Subject line
    "Re: John Doe is an idiot," so they're perpetuating that
    statement of the Subject line.

    A reasonable Subject line could go something like:
    "John Doe's mental bandwidth" (a noun phrase).

    To avoid poisoned Subject lines on Usenet, I start a brand
    new thread if I want to respond to something written under
    a poisoned Subject lines.

    ... if I become aware of it. "Quit Shopping For Fun" is also
    a poisoned subject line, because when people superficially
    see (maybe on a Web page where the Usenet is mirrored):

    Stefan Ram - Quit Shopping For Fun

    ("Re:" might sometimes be omitted in such cases) it might
    sound as if /I/ want to tell people, "Quit shopping for fun!".

    So, a less "poisoned" Subject line might just be "Shopping For
    Fun" without the "Quit".

    Good catch, interesting take. ()()()

    ...but was the touchdown completed correctly? - nope (I've tweaked the
    subject line and xposted as was suggested). Tesponders please feel free to
    set FU on reply.

    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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