• The COHERENT Operating System

    From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 24 20:55:39 2024
    The Mark Williams Company
    And the COHERENT operating system
    =================================
    Feb 17, 2024

    William Mark Schwartz was a chemist living in Chicago and running a
    chemical company called the Mark Williams Chemical Company. Some of
    his employees complained of issues like fatigue, headaches, and
    indigestion which prompted him to create a beverage that would solve
    these issues. These complaints were more of the "man, I am tired"
    variety and not that Schwartz was working them to death. This
    beverage was Dr. Enuf, likely developed in 1949, for which Schwartz
    applied for a trademark on the 19th of May in 1951. The trademark was
    granted on the 2nd of December in 1952, and the beverage was first
    sold commercially on the 4th of April in 1951. The company produced
    paints and other products as well (being a chemical company), but Dr.
    Enuf is the most famous. The rights to the formula for Dr. Enuf were
    eventually bought by Charles Gordon of Tri-City Beverage in Johnson
    City, Tennessee.

    William Mark Schwartz's son, Robert Schwartz, didn't wish to follow
    his father into chemistry. He was a software developer, and he wanted
    to move the company into that field. Specifically, Robert Schwartz
    saw the introduction of the microprocessor and early microcomputers
    as having extreme potential. This transition occurred in 1977 and the "Chemical" was dropped from the name, and the new Mark Williams
    Company was headquartered in Northbrook, Illinois.

    Logo of the Mark WIlliams Company
    <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/ w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 0d1a6f55-72b7-467f-9b44-8f22caa0fd97_1920x1920.png>

    Stephen A. Ness joined the computer science department of Stanford
    University as a graduate student in the autumn of 1968.
    Unfortunately, his interested began to fade, so he spent quite a bit
    of time going to movies. He started working at the Festival Cinema in
    Palo Alto sweeping floors, cleaning bathrooms, and running the
    projectors. He was a movie buff and this worked for him for some
    time. As his interest in working at the theater was beginning to
    wane, he began to long for a job in software development. In early
    February of 1977, Donald Knuth paid a visit to the theater and asked
    Ness what he was up to, Ness told him about his job search. The next
    day, Knuth got a call from Schwartz. Schwartz was searching for a
    programmer and Knuth provided Schwartz with Ness's number.

    The start of the microcomputer world was dominated by BASIC. More
    particularly, it was dominated by Microsoft BASIC, and Schwartz
    wanted to compete. Ness told Schwartz that he could build a BASIC
    interpreter in about four months, which was just a guess on Ness's
    part. He hated BASIC, but he was familiar enough with it, and he
    really wanted the job. On top of that, Schwartz was letting him work
    from home. With both parties satisfied, work began. Of course, this
    "working from home" was complicated. Disk drives of any kind were
    expensive and difficult to come by, so Ness commuted from Palo Alto
    to Pacific Grove where he used Gary Kildall's computers until he
    purchased his own machine and disk drive later in the year. The BASIC
    that Ness built for the Mark Williams Company was XYBASIC.

    The XYBASIC manual cover, from Stephen Ness via nesssoftware.com <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/
    f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 8ee6c692-cd61-49a9-9b87-bd5afba601a8_1023x1314.png>

    Getting a start early on in the computer revolution with a BASIC was
    a good idea. BASIC was everywhere, and it was a product that would
    sell. Revenues from XYBASIC allowed the company to expand into
    operating systems. MWC purchased a PDP-11 in the late 1970s and began
    working on a UNIX clone. This would allow them, just as XYBASIC did,
    to offer a stellar product at a price far lower than any of the
    competition. COHERENT was first sold through OEMs for PDP-11
    minicomputers in 1980. However, it was quickly ported to the Zilog
    Z8000, the Motorola 68000, and the 8086. It was offered at retail to
    owners of machines utilizing these CPUs in the spring of 1983. One
    OEM who picked up COHERENT was Commodore.

    Announcment in BYTE, February 1984
    <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/ w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 041cd2d8-3063-4023-8d22-19750d5d5076_1393x290.png>

    Announcement in BYTE, June 1984
    <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/
    f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F c8d7e117-46b0-4d0f-9b3b-a3152d128842_1118x419.png>

    The workstation Commodore was building was the C900. This system
    offered a 1024x800 display on a screen of either fourteen or twenty
    inches, a 20MB HDD, a 1.2MB five and quarter inch floppy disk drive,
    two RS232 ports, a Centronics port, an IEEE-488 port, 512K RAM, and
    the COHERENT operating system version 2.3 with both BASIC and C. The
    C900 could be expanded with hard disk upgrades up to 67MB, memory up
    to 2MB, and RS232 port count up to eight (for a total of eight
    terminals for concurrent multi-user support). On the software side,
    add-ons included: Pascal, COBOL, plotting software, and graphical
    terminal support. The C900 was built in Germany with a US release
    scheduled for the third quarter of 1985. Pricing started around $2700
    (about $7740 in 2024).

    Commodore 900, image from vintagecomputer.ca <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/ w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F c6d05bfb-1ff1-43c4-894a-c5ae0e0b64a2_1501x1188.png>

    Unfortunately, the C900 project was canceled with very few units
    having made it to market. Commodore's focus shifted to Amiga, and
    their UNIX workstation aspirations disappeared.

    Thankfully, the IBM PC and its clones were selling well and COHERENT
    was also present there for $500 (about $1433 in 2024) requiring a
    minimum of an IBM PC with a hard disk. With just an IBM PC and a hard
    disk, COHERENT could support three concurrent users with terminals
    attached via serial ports.

    Ad from BYTE, February 1984
    <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/
    f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F dca26d96-93d0-4a8d-9313-1dcdefdd5299_825x1160.png>

    <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/
    f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 88515cc1-8704-4710-9877-053312b78cf3_564x1656.png>

    Given that UNIX licenses were prohibitively expensive during this
    time period, COHERENT was quite a good deal. Adding that it included
    both a C compiler and a BASIC compiler, COHERENT was easily the most
    affordable workstation operating system and software development
    suite available at the time. As for what COHERENT really offered, it
    was essentially V7 UNIX complete with nroff, diff, sed, ed, awk, lex,
    yacc, db, man, bc, make, the Bourne shell, and other expected
    utilities. This system was packed onto seven double-sided floppy
    disks, and packaged with a manual.

    Of course, AT&T didn't exactly love the idea of someone offering a
    UNIX-like operating system for substantially less money while also
    not paying them their due. So it was that around the time that the PC
    port was made, AT&T sent Dennis Ritchie went to the Mark Williams
    Company offices in Northbrook to ascertain whether or not COHERENT
    represented an instance of intellectual property theft. According to
    Ritchie, the offices were in an industrial area and the feel of the
    premises hadn't strayed far from that of a paint company. As for the investigation of COHERENT, Mark Williams Company would not allow AT&T
    to have a look at their source code, and therefore the most that
    Ritchie could do was look around the system. He had notes with him
    about specific things that could indicate a direct copy without much
    doubt, but that was the most he could do. His conclusion is that
    COHERENT was made with considerable study of AT&T UNIX, but that it
    wasn't a direct copy. He stated:

    It was very hard to believe that Coherent and its basic
    applications were not created without considerable study of the OS
    code and details of its applications. Looking at various corners
    convinced me that I couldn't find anything that was copied. It
    might have been that some parts were written with our source
    nearby, but at least the effort had been made to rewrite. If it
    came to it, I could never honestly testify that my opinion was that
    what they generated was irreproducible from the manual.

    Given that the making of a UNIX-like operating system required a C
    compiler, the MWC C compiler was quickly ported to other systems and
    offered as a standalone product starting in 1981. Porting the
    compiler to MS-DOS was a given as IBM compatibles running MS-DOS
    dominated the market by the middle of the 1980s and COHERENT was
    offered for those machines. MWC offered their C compiler for MS-DOS
    at a price of just $75 (around $254 in 2024) and an advanced
    interactive debugger was offered for another $75.

    1987 Byte Ad
    <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/ w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F b7e8e238-9d50-4f5e-bfc0-3804d6c96b29_1241x1703.png>

    In early 1986, the Mark Williams company began offering their C
    compiler for the Atari ST. This software package came with a rather
    complete manual that covered the C compiler itself in five hundred
    twelve pages, the make utility with another twenty five pages, and
    Micro EMACS in another seventy seven pages. Beyond cc, make, and
    emacs, the MWC C compiler for the ST shipped with a symbolic
    debugger, assembler, linker, and a series of libraries that offered
    sorts, enums, and a random number generator. This product sold for
    $180 (about $506 in 2024). In autumn of 1987, MWC followed up with
    version 2 of their C compiler for the ST. This version increased the
    compiler's speed, added RAM disk support for temporary files, a shell
    that implemented a small subset of UNIX commands, and improved
    documentation. STart Magazine's review stated the product was without
    equal.

    From what I can gather, COHERENT version 1 was only available on the
    PDP-11. COHERENT version 2 began shipping on OEM systems, and the
    point releases of 2.3 and 2.5 were offered at retail while also
    having been present on some OEM systems.

    COHERENT version 3 was released in May of 1990 for $99.95 (about $235
    in 2024). It required a 7MB or larger HDD, 640K RAM, a high density
    disk drive, and at least an Intel 80286 CPU. Given the nature of the
    286, the kernel fit in just 64K RAM with support for multitasking and
    and multiple concurrent users. This was still a V7 UNIX clone and it
    continued to lack BSD enhancements (like vi), though it did come with
    Emacs. It also lacked the Korn shell, X, SCSI support, and MCA
    support. The COHERENT manual at this point was one thousand pages.
    COHERENT v3 sold around forty thousand copies between 1990 and 1992
    which would have resulted in revenues around $4 million (nearly $10
    million in 2024).

    COHERENT version 4 was released in May of 1992 for $100 (around $219
    in 2024). This version made COHERENT a fully 32 bit operating system
    and required at least an Intel 80386 CPU and 1MB of RAM. This version
    also brought official support for X Windows and MGR to COHERENT for
    the first time. This version was roughly compatible with UNIX SVR3.

    COHERENT V4.2 with X11R5 running TWM, image from Udo Monk <https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/ w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/ https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 8e2162b6-3a02-48c5-b508-2fc05bcdb30f_798x596.png>

    COHERENT version 4.2 was released in 1994. This version brought
    STREAMS, POSIX.1 and POSIX.2 compatibility to COHERENT making it
    largely compatible with UNIX SVR4.

    The 1990s were tough. COHERENT was always a distant second to XENIX,
    but the early 1990s brought more competitors into the mix. BSD was
    making its way onto X86 compatible machines with many improvements
    over AT&T UNIX with a cost of zero dollars while Linux was quickly
    growing and gaining market share with SLS, Slackware, and Debian, add
    to both of those that the commercial UNIX workstation market in
    general was losing ground to Windows NT. Likewise, the ST, where MWC
    saw the most success with their programming language tools, was no
    longer popular enough to provide significant revenues. These
    pressures all came to a head and the Mark Williams Company closed in
    1995. In 2001, Stephen Ness archived the MWC sources at the request
    of Robert Schwartz, and in 2015 that source code archive was released
    under a 3-clause BSD license.

    <https://github.com/gspu/Coherent>

    From: <https://www.abortretry.fail/p/the-mark-williams-company>

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Mon Mar 25 06:54:48 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    COHERENT version 4 was released in May of 1992 for $100 (around $219
    in 2024). This version made COHERENT a fully 32 bit operating system
    and required at least an Intel 80386 CPU and 1MB of RAM. This version
    also brought official support for X Windows and MGR to COHERENT for
    the first time. This version was roughly compatible with UNIX SVR3.

    BTW: Probably "X Window" (the X Window System) is meant above,
    not "X Windows".

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Mon Mar 25 06:51:04 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    COHERENT version 4 was released in May of 1992 for $100 (around $219
    in 2024). This version made COHERENT a fully 32 bit operating system
    and required at least an Intel 80386 CPU and 1MB of RAM. This version
    also brought official support for X Windows and MGR to COHERENT for
    the first time. This version was roughly compatible with UNIX SVR3.

    I bought Coherent from a local (Berlin) bookstore.
    Don't know the version, but it might have been in 1992.
    Then, on Coherent, I would use

    /etc/disable /dev/com1r
    /usr/local/bin/kermit
    set line /dev/com1r
    set speed 9600
    serve

    , and IIRC in this way I was able to transfer data with my Amiga,
    where another Kermit was running.

    IIRC, I also used a Coherent command "dos" to transfer files
    to an MS-DOS system on the same computer.

    In the end, I might not have done much with Coherent, but it was
    a way to own something "UNIX like" before Linux (first published
    1991-09-17) became popular.

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  • From John McCue@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Mon Mar 25 12:23:58 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
    The Mark Williams Company
    And the COHERENT operating system
    =================================

    I used Coherent 286 then 386 until MWC Folded, I learned a
    lot with it and developed some items for work with it.

    To bad they could not succeed, but the Linux juggernaut got
    too much for MWC :(

    FWIW, comp.os.coherent is still a bit active and the source
    was released recently.

    --
    csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
    - Paraphrasing Star Wars

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  • From vallor@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Mon Mar 25 21:26:08 2024
    XPost: comp.windows.x

    On 25 Mar 2024 06:54:48 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote in <X-20240325075426@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>:

    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    COHERENT version 4 was released in May of 1992 for $100 (around $219
    in 2024). This version made COHERENT a fully 32 bit operating system
    and required at least an Intel 80386 CPU and 1MB of RAM. This version
    also brought official support for X Windows and MGR to COHERENT for
    the first time. This version was roughly compatible with UNIX SVR3.

    BTW: Probably "X Window" (the X Window System) is meant above,
    not "X Windows".

    BTDT: it was known as "X Windows", not "X Window".

    But officially, it was (and still is) "X" or "The X Window System".

    (I've been seeing a lot of folks refer to it as "X Window"
    on Usenet lately -- you kids get off my lawn!)

    --
    -v

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to vallor@cultnix.org on Mon Mar 25 22:54:04 2024
    XPost: comp.windows.x

    In article <utsq5g$14tqr$2@dont-email.me>, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: >On 25 Mar 2024 06:54:48 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote in ><X-20240325075426@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>:

    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    COHERENT version 4 was released in May of 1992 for $100 (around $219
    in 2024). This version made COHERENT a fully 32 bit operating system
    and required at least an Intel 80386 CPU and 1MB of RAM. This version >>>also brought official support for X Windows and MGR to COHERENT for
    the first time. This version was roughly compatible with UNIX SVR3.

    BTW: Probably "X Window" (the X Window System) is meant above,
    not "X Windows".

    BTDT: it was known as "X Windows", not "X Window".

    But officially, it was (and still is) "X" or "The X Window System".

    (I've been seeing a lot of folks refer to it as "X Window"
    on Usenet lately -- you kids get off my lawn!)

    I thought it was the windows system known as X?
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Stefan Ram@21:1/5 to vallor on Tue Mar 26 10:52:28 2024
    XPost: comp.windows.x

    vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote or quoted:
    BTDT: it was known as "X Windows", not "X Window".
    But officially, it was (and still is) "X" or "The X Window System".

    There seem to be two different linguistic points of view here:

    Descriptive View

    The meaning of a term is determined by how it is used by the people.

    Prescriptive View

    The manufacturer of a system may determine the terms, and others not.

    Newsgroups: comp.misc,comp.windows.x

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  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to Scott Dorsey on Tue Mar 26 10:19:59 2024
    XPost: comp.windows.x

    On 25 Mar 2024 22:54:04 -0000
    kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

    In article <utsq5g$14tqr$2@dont-email.me>, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
    On 25 Mar 2024 06:54:48 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote in ><X-20240325075426@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de>:

    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote or quoted:
    COHERENT version 4 was released in May of 1992 for $100 (around $219
    in 2024). This version made COHERENT a fully 32 bit operating system >>>and required at least an Intel 80386 CPU and 1MB of RAM. This version >>>also brought official support for X Windows and MGR to COHERENT for
    the first time. This version was roughly compatible with UNIX SVR3.

    BTW: Probably "X Window" (the X Window System) is meant above,
    not "X Windows".

    BTDT: it was known as "X Windows", not "X Window".

    But officially, it was (and still is) "X" or "The X Window System".

    (I've been seeing a lot of folks refer to it as "X Window"
    on Usenet lately -- you kids get off my lawn!)

    I thought it was the windows system known as X?

    A simple name change, why are you all a-twitter?

    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to John McCue on Thu Mar 28 00:52:50 2024
    On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:23:58 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

    ... but the Linux juggernaut got too much for MWC :(

    I wonder how you could call a rag-tag bunch of volunteers a
    “juggernaut” ...

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  • From Ben Collver@21:1/5 to Lawrence D'Oliveiro on Thu Mar 28 01:27:35 2024
    On 2024-03-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:23:58 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

    ... but the Linux juggernaut got too much for MWC :(

    I wonder how you could call a rag-tag bunch of volunteers a
    “juggernaut” ...

    One could argue that Linux ate commercial *nix's lunch. It's
    generally the *nix used by big tech including IBM, Google, and on
    Chinese "de-Americanized" computers. Not bad for a rag-tag bunch
    of volunteers.

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  • From Rich@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Thu Mar 28 03:31:53 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
    On 2024-03-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:23:58 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

    ... but the Linux juggernaut got too much for MWC :(

    I wonder how you could call a rag-tag bunch of volunteers a
    “juggernaut” ...

    One could argue that Linux ate commercial *nix's lunch.

    Linux (free of cost) plus the rather rapid performance increases of the
    Intel x86 arch over those years were what ate commerical Unix's lunch.
    When one could buy a commodity x86 system for a couple grand, which had
    more compute performance than a five or six figure unix workstation,
    and get 'Unix' (Linux) on the x86 for free, the commerical unix
    workstation vendors no longer had a market they could sell into.

    One, without the other, would not have had the same devastating effect
    on the unix workstation market.

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  • From Dan Cross@21:1/5 to rich@example.invalid on Fri Mar 29 01:06:19 2024
    In article <uu2ob8$3bcot$2@dont-email.me>, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
    On 2024-03-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:23:58 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

    ... but the Linux juggernaut got too much for MWC :(

    I wonder how you could call a rag-tag bunch of volunteers a
    “juggernaut” ...

    One could argue that Linux ate commercial *nix's lunch.

    Linux (free of cost) plus the rather rapid performance increases of the
    Intel x86 arch over those years were what ate commerical Unix's lunch.
    When one could buy a commodity x86 system for a couple grand, which had
    more compute performance than a five or six figure unix workstation,
    and get 'Unix' (Linux) on the x86 for free, the commerical unix
    workstation vendors no longer had a market they could sell into.

    One, without the other, would not have had the same devastating effect
    on the unix workstation market.

    I remember vividly back in the mid-late 90's a sysadmin I knew
    showing me a COTS PC running Linux; nothing I hadn't seen before
    but he made an offhand comment that blew me away: "Yeah, it's
    about half the speed of a SPARCstation-whatever, but a quarter
    of the cost."

    That's when I knew Linux on x86 had won.

    - Dan C.

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  • From candycanearter07@21:1/5 to Johanne Fairchild on Fri Mar 29 03:00:02 2024
    Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> wrote at 02:15 this Friday (GMT):
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    The Mark Williams Company
    And the COHERENT operating system
    =================================
    Feb 17, 2024

    Thanks for writing. And for posting. I had never heard of COHERENT.


    Same, me neither.
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

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  • From Johanne Fairchild@21:1/5 to Ben Collver on Thu Mar 28 23:15:35 2024
    Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> writes:

    The Mark Williams Company
    And the COHERENT operating system
    =================================
    Feb 17, 2024

    Thanks for writing. And for posting. I had never heard of COHERENT.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Rich on Fri Mar 29 03:15:49 2024
    On Thu, 28 Mar 2024 03:31:53 -0000 (UTC), Rich wrote:

    Linux (free of cost) plus the rather rapid performance increases of the
    Intel x86 arch over those years were what ate commerical Unix's lunch.
    When one could buy a commodity x86 system for a couple grand ...

    BSDs could run on those, too. And Sun and other Unix vendors did bring out machines based on x86 hardware.

    So what was different about Linux? It seemed to attract a whole pool of
    smart folks with creative new ideas, in a way that no other platform of
    the time, open source or not, could match.

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  • From Lawrence D'Oliveiro@21:1/5 to Aharon Robbins on Fri Mar 29 04:58:53 2024
    On 29 Mar 2024 04:36:24 GMT, Aharon Robbins wrote:

    I think XFree86 was the final piece of the puzzle.

    Keith Packard describes going to X Consortium meetings, when he was part
    of that project. None of the big Unix workstation vendors (Sun etc) wanted
    to talk to them: at best, they were seen as unwanted competition, at
    worst, as irrelevant. Inconsequential little pipsqueaks, I guess.

    Ironic that all those Unix workstation vendors are now extinct, and the
    Xorg fork (that included Packard) of XFree86 is now basically the only
    group left carrying the X11 torch. What’s left of it, anyway, before
    Wayland takes over.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Aharon Robbins@21:1/5 to Dan Cross on Fri Mar 29 04:36:24 2024
    In article <uu546b$otu$2@reader1.panix.com>,
    Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote:
    In article <uu2ob8$3bcot$2@dont-email.me>, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote: >>Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> wrote:
    On 2024-03-28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 12:23:58 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

    ... but the Linux juggernaut got too much for MWC :(

    I wonder how you could call a rag-tag bunch of volunteers a
    “juggernaut” ...

    One could argue that Linux ate commercial *nix's lunch.

    Linux (free of cost) plus the rather rapid performance increases of the >>Intel x86 arch over those years were what ate commerical Unix's lunch.
    When one could buy a commodity x86 system for a couple grand, which had >>more compute performance than a five or six figure unix workstation,
    and get 'Unix' (Linux) on the x86 for free, the commerical unix
    workstation vendors no longer had a market they could sell into.

    One, without the other, would not have had the same devastating effect
    on the unix workstation market.

    I remember vividly back in the mid-late 90's a sysadmin I knew
    showing me a COTS PC running Linux; nothing I hadn't seen before
    but he made an offhand comment that blew me away: "Yeah, it's
    about half the speed of a SPARCstation-whatever, but a quarter
    of the cost."

    That's when I knew Linux on x86 had won.

    - Dan C.

    I think XFree86 was the final piece of the puzzle. Anyone using
    graphical workstations wouldn't want to give up that environment.
    Having X11 on x86 gave the same workstation experience at that
    much cheaper price point.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)