Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

True. Even if you're steeped in EMACS, Gnus is still hard to get to
grips with. But surely the greatest feature of Gnus is precisely that
it runs in the GNU EMACS.

Currently it has some 876 interactive (user-callable)
functions. Of these 618 are in the two major modes (Group
and. Summary/Article).

I'm pretty steeped, been using gnus since -- I forget, 1990? When
it first appeared? When it still had Masanobu UMEDA's name on it. --
forever. But I only read, post, occasionally killfile. Don't even
know what most of the other 873 functions are. But posting news is
almost exactly like sending email in Emacs, not at all hard to get to
grips with.

But speaking of offline reading, one feature of Gnus that I really like
is that when I open the first article on a thread, it downloads some subsequent articles, so when I ask for the next it is already there for
me.

Using a really old version of Emacs, thus also of gnus. I *don't*
like software that downloads *anything* that I haven't explicitly
asked for.

Well, yew know, cranky old people, eh?

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

True. Even if you're steeped in EMACS, Gnus is still hard to get to
grips with. But surely the greatest feature of Gnus is precisely that
it runs in the GNU EMACS.

Ohhhh yes, and too many functions on too many unprefixed keys just
increase the probability of accidentally performing something unwanted
by off-by-one typos. I screw up GNUS much more often than the parts of emacs/org where functions need C- and/or M- modifiers. Hit shappens!

That's one of my reasons to keep separating my "business" mail and
private mail/news in different clients. Additionally my "business" mail
needs better HTML rendering than GNUS does. Well, I do not need better
HTML in GNUS, but previewing my org-to-html exports in a more capable
way without needing an external browser would be nicer and that probably
would add automagically to improve HTML rendering GNUS.

The occasional mix of some images with lots of plain text is ok with
GNUS, e.g. Hackaday via RSS gated through Gwene[0], but not much more of
HTML complexity than this.

Using a really old version of Emacs, thus also of gnus. I *don't*
like software that downloads *anything* that I haven't explicitly
asked for.

I've not turned off prefetch, I just trust GNUS enough. In other
programs (especially modern blingbling with JS and such) or when
experimenting again with ISDN speed (8kBytes/sec) I would do so.

Well, yew know, cranky old people, eh?

I only need a mirror to meet one of those.

____________

[0]: <nntp+news.gwene.org:gwene.com.hackaday>

--
1. Hitchhiker 30: (6) "No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly
normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that."

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yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

True. Even if you're steeped in EMACS, Gnus is still hard to get to
grips with. But surely the greatest feature of Gnus is precisely that
it runs in the GNU EMACS.

Ohhhh yes, and too many functions on too many unprefixed keys just
increase the probability of accidentally performing something unwanted
by off-by-one typos.

Lol. That happens sometimes.

Speaking of Gnus, let me share some of my customization. The summary
buffer should not let names vary in width because that doesn't let
subjects align very well and the thread shapes are important to be
viewed properly. There should be some order in how we see data on the
screen. It shouldn't be messy.

I think we hardly care with whom we're talking to, so I reduced people's
names to three letters. I also like to see the article number in the
local NNTP server --- it hints you quickly at which articles arrived in
what order. Dates are also important, but usually day and month is
enough.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(setq gnus-group-line-format "[%4U unread, %T ticked] %G (%t,%SL%L%B)\n")
(setq gnus-group-mode-line-format "%T%:%S")

(setq gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z%I%(%[%4L: %-23,23f%]%) %s\n")
(setq gnus-summary-line-format "%z[%U][%N] %d %ua%B%* %(%S%) [L%Lm%Os%i]\n")

(defun gnus-user-format-function-o (headers)
(letrec ((date-string (aref headers 3)))
(format-time-string "%m-%d %H.%M.%S" (date-to-time date-string))))

(defun name-clean-up (name)
(defun alphanum-p (c)
(or (and (<= 65 c) (<= c 90)) (and (<= 97 c) (<= c 122))))
(remove-if-not 'alphanum-p name))

(defun gnus-user-format-function-a (headers)
(letrec ((from (aref headers 2))
(names (split-string from))
(last-name (car (last names))))
(upcase (if (< (length from) 3) "XXX" (substring (name-clean-up from) 0 3)))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

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Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

True. Even if you're steeped in EMACS, Gnus is still hard to get to
grips with. But surely the greatest feature of Gnus is precisely that
it runs in the GNU EMACS.

Currently it has some 876 interactive (user-callable)
functions. Of these 618 are in the two major modes (Group
and. Summary/Article).

Lol. Feature-rich!

It's really not for the new latest type of computer user. The GNU EMACS
seems to preserve a tradition not respected by these more recent system builders such as Microsoft, Apple, Google et cetera. The GNU EMACS
developers still refuse to adapt the software to the change in computer
usage that took place after the commercialization of the Internet. Part
of the very essence of these new builders is precisely to change culture
if they can.

But speaking of offline reading, one feature of Gnus that I really like
is that when I open the first article on a thread, it downloads some
subsequent articles, so when I ask for the next it is already there for
me.

Using a really old version of Emacs, thus also of gnus. I *don't*
like software that downloads *anything* that I haven't explicitly
asked for.

You got a point. I'm like that too, specially with graphical user
interfaces. For instance, if my windows are in some places, do keep
them there. If I did not ask for a window to pop-up, do not.

Speaking of which, here's something very annoying about the Python REPL
on the GNU EMACS --- it keeps the prompt at the bottom of the window.
If you C-l so that you move it to the middle of the screen, it goes
there, but type another expression and RET and it moves again to the
bottom. (``Who told you to scroll?'')

Well, yew know, cranky old people, eh?

I say --- wise people.

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Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

The summary buffer should not let names vary in width because that
doesn't let subjects align very well and the thread shapes are
important to be viewed properly.

Yip. I've constant width for names:

-----------------------------------8<-----------------------------------
O 20230908T145052 [Sn!pe ][ 0] +-> How to change the Subject of a Usenet article (Was: Re: Recent spam on comp.lang.c)
O 20230908T232734 [candycanearter0][ 0] | +-> Re: How to change the Subject of a Usenet article (Was: Re: Recent spam on comp.lang.c)
O 20230909T085712 [Sn!pe ][ 0] | | \-> Re: How to change the Subject of a Usenet article
O 20230909T205426 [candycanearter0][ 0] | | \->
O 20230909T210819 [Ben Bacarisse ][ 0] | | +-> ----------------------------------->8-----------------------------------

The score shall shrink, but I haven't made up my mind about the width.
Probably I'll try to use only positive numbers to save the space for the
sign.

I think we hardly care with whom we're talking to, so I reduced
people's names to three letters.

I rarely expunge someone, but use scores instead to flag whom not to
reply. I may react differently depending on a mix of mood, daytime and
score to different names. When I don't remember any more which incident
caused that score for that user, I drop it. I just sometimes need a
break from someone. So the name still is needed.

I also like to see the article number in the local NNTP server --- it
hints you quickly at which articles arrived in what order. Dates are
also important, but usually day and month is enough.

Article number ... nice idea! I cannot imagine to shorten the date any further, not even the constant leading 20, so maybe I can drop the time
part for the article sequence number.

I'll let that ferment for a while before I try the next changes.

--
I tried to forget [Henry Kissinger], but instead I forgot why I wanted
to forget [Henry Kissinger]. -- yeti, 20231130T031316

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My server buffer looks like this (only some nntp: entries copied):

-----------------------------------8<-----------------------------------
(closed) (agent) {nntp:nntp.aioe.org}
(opened) (agent) {nntp:news.eternal-september.org}
(opened) (agent) {nntp:news.gmane.io}
(opened) (agent) {nntp:news.gwene.org}
(opened) (agent) {nntp:news.sdf.org}
(opened) (agent) {nntp:news.tilde.club}
(closed) {nntp:news.uni-stuttgart.de}
(offline) (agent) {nntp:retrobsd.ddns.net}
(offline) (agent) {nntp:swarm0} ----------------------------------->8-----------------------------------

Loosely related:

I miss aioe, so I keep it in the config for nostalgia. Despite only
having posted very infrequently via aioe, waiting for it to come up
again made me realise how much I missed Usenet and so I looked for two alternatives for not having that situation again.

--
( Are we there yet? )
\ ( Be patient! )
\ \
_______________________ _@o ____________ _@o _@o _______________________

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Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

Speaking of which, here's something very annoying about the Python REPL
on the GNU EMACS --- it keeps the prompt at the bottom of the window.
If you C-l so that you move it to the middle of the screen, it goes
there, but type another expression and RET and it moves again to the
bottom. (``Who told you to scroll?'')

There are two variables with which you can change this behaviour:

comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-output and
comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-input

I guess you want to setq them to nil.

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Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

Speaking of which, here's something very annoying about the Python REPL
on the GNU EMACS --- it keeps the prompt at the bottom of the window.
If you C-l so that you move it to the middle of the screen, it goes
there, but type another expression and RET and it moves again to the
bottom. (``Who told you to scroll?'')

There are two variables with which you can change this behaviour:

comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-output and
comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-input

I guess you want to setq them to nil.

It does look like I want to set them to nil, but so far no effect on the *Python* buffer, having closed it restarted it. (Thanks!)

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-output is a variable defined in ‘comint.el’.
Its value is nil
Local in buffer *Python*; global value is the same.

This variable is an alias for ‘comint-move-point-for-output’.
You can customize this variable.
Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 19.23.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-input is a variable defined in ‘comint.el’.
Its value is nil

This variable’s value is permanent if it is given a local binding.
You can customize this variable.
Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 19.23.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

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Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

Speaking of which, here's something very annoying about the Python
REPL
on the GNU EMACS --- it keeps the prompt at the bottom of the
window.
If you C-l so that you move it to the middle of the screen, it goes
there, but type another expression and RET and it moves again to
the
bottom. (``Who told you to scroll?'')

There are two variables with which you can change this behaviour:

comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-output and
comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-input

I guess you want to setq them to nil.

It does look like I want to set them to nil, but so far no effect on
the
*Python* buffer, having closed it restarted it. (Thanks!)

You're right. The variables that works here (for shell mode, at least) is

comint-scroll-show-maximum-output

I also set the other two but they default to nil anyway so
they dont't change anything.

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Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> writes:

Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:

Speaking of which, here's something very annoying about the Python
REPL
on the GNU EMACS --- it keeps the prompt at the bottom of the
window.
If you C-l so that you move it to the middle of the screen, it goes
there, but type another expression and RET and it moves again to
the
bottom. (``Who told you to scroll?'')

There are two variables with which you can change this behaviour:

comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-output and
comint-scroll-to-bottom-on-input

I guess you want to setq them to nil.

It does look like I want to set them to nil, but so far no effect on
the
*Python* buffer, having closed it restarted it. (Thanks!)

You're right. The variables that works here (for shell mode, at least) is

comint-scroll-show-maximum-output

I also set the other two but they default to nil anyway so
they dont't change anything.

A little reflection shows that the motion is relative to the window.
It's seems more like the effect of (recenter -1). Evaluate this
function on your GNU EMACS. It'll recenter your buffer moving your
point to the base of the window.

We could now read the Python mode and see whether it recenters at any
point in the code. Indeed, we find...

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(defun python-comint-postoutput-scroll-to-bottom (output)
"Faster version of `comint-postoutput-scroll-to-bottom'.
Avoids `recenter' calls until OUTPUT is completely sent."
(when (and (not (string= "" output))
(python-shell-comint-end-of-output-p
(ansi-color-filter-apply output)))
(comint-postoutput-scroll-to-bottom output))
output)

(defun comint-postoutput-scroll-to-bottom (_string)
"Go to the end of buffer in some or all windows showing it.
Do not scroll if the current line is the last line in the buffer.
Depends on the value of `comint-move-point-for-output' and `comint-scroll-show-maximum-output'.

This function should be in the list `comint-output-filter-functions'."
(let* ((current (current-buffer))
(process (get-buffer-process current)))
(unwind-protect
(cond
((null process))
((bound-and-true-p follow-mode)
(follow-comint-scroll-to-bottom))
(t
(dolist (w (get-buffer-window-list current nil t))
(comint-adjust-window-point w process)
;; Optionally scroll to the bottom of the window.
(and comint-scroll-show-maximum-output
(eq (window-point w) (point-max))
(with-selected-window w
(recenter (- -1 scroll-margin)))))))
(set-buffer current))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

So the culprit is comint-scroll-show-maximum-output. I get what I like
with

(setq comint-scroll-show-maximum-output nil).

Thank you so much.

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