• is Google on the decline?

    From Retrograde@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 2 22:03:12 2023
    From the «the modern WWW is a trash fire» department:
    Feed: Slashdot
    Title: Are We Seeing the End of the Googleverse?
    Author: EditorDavid
    Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 11:34:00 -0400
    Link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/09/02/0557232/are-we-seeing-the-end-of-the-googleverse?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed

    The Verge argues we're seeing "the end of the Googleverse. For two decades, Google Search was the invisible force that determined the ebb and flow of online
    content. "Now, for the first time, its cultural relevance is in question... all around us are signs that the era of 'peak Google' is ending or, possibly, already over." There is a growing chorus of complaints that Google is not as accurate, as competent, as dedicated to search as it once was. The rise of massive closed algorithmic social networks like Meta's Facebook and Instagram began eating the web in the 2010s. More recently, there's been a shift to entertainment-based video feeds like TikTok — which is now being used as a primary search engine by a new generation of internet users... Google Reader shut down in 2013, taking with it the last vestiges of the blogosphere. Search inside of Google Groups has repeatedly broken over the years. Blogger still works, but without Google Reader as a hub for aggregating it, most publishers started making native content on platforms like Facebook and Instagram and, more
    recently, TikTok. Discoverability of the open web has suffered. Pinterest has been accused of eating Google Image Search results. And the recent protests over
    third-party API access at Reddit revealed how popular Google has become as a search engine not for Google's results but for Reddit content. Google's place in
    the hierarchy of Big Tech is slipping enough that some are even admitting that Apple Maps is worth giving another chance, something unthinkable even a few years ago. On top of it all, OpenAI's massively successful ChatGPT has dragged Google into a race against Microsoft to build a completely different kind of search, one that uses a chatbot interface supported by generative AI. Their article quotes the founder of the long-ago Google-watching blog, "Google Blogoscoped," who remembers that when Google first came along, "they were ad-free with actually relevant results in a minimalistic kind of design. If we fast-forward to now, it's kind of inverted now. The results are kind of spammy and keyword-built and SEO stuff. And so it might be hard to understand for people looking at Google now how useful it was back then." The question, of course, is when did it all go wrong? How did a site that captured the imagination of the internet and fundamentally changed the way we communicate turn into a burned-out Walmart at the edge of town? Well, if you ask Anil Dash, it was all the way back in 2003 — when the company turned on its AdSense program. "Prior to 2003-2004, you could have an open comment box on the internet. And nobody would pretty much type in it unless they wanted to leave a comment. No authentication. Nothing. And the reason why was because who the fuck
    cares what you comment on there. And then instantly, overnight, what happened?" Dash said. "Every single comment thread on the internet was instantly spammed. And it happened overnight...." As he sees it, Google's advertising tools gave links a monetary value, killing anything organic on the platform. From that moment forward, Google cared more about the health of its own network than the health of the wider internet. "At that point it was really clear where the next 20 years were going to go," he said.

    [image 2][2] [image 4][4]

    Read more of this story[5] at Slashdot.

    Links:
    [1]: http://twitter.com/home?status=Are+We+Seeing+the+End+of+the+Googleverse%3F%3A+https%3A%2F%2Ftech.slashdot.org%2Fstory%2F23%2F09%2F02%2F0557232%2F%3Futm_source%3Dtwitter%26utm_medium%3Dtwitter (link)
    [2]: https://a.fsdn.com/sd/twitter_icon_large.png (image)
    [3]: http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftech.slashdot.org%2Fstory%2F23%2F09%2F02%2F0557232%2Fare-we-seeing-the-end-of-the-googleverse%3Futm_source%3Dslashdot%26utm_medium%3Dfacebook (link)
    [4]: https://a.fsdn.com/sd/facebook_icon_large.png (image)
    [5]: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/09/02/0557232/are-we-seeing-the-end-of-the-googleverse?utm_source=rss1.0moreanon&utm_medium=feed (link)



    --
    Emojis are for wimps.

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  • From Eli the Bearded@21:1/5 to fungus@amongus.com.invalid on Mon Sep 4 00:08:53 2023
    In comp.misc, Retrograde <fungus@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:
    Title: Are We Seeing the End of the Googleverse?
    Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2023 11:34:00 -0400
    Link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/09/02/0557232/are-we-seeing-the-end-of-the-googleverse?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed

    The Verge argues we're seeing "the end of the Googleverse. For two decades, Google Search was the invisible force that determined the ebb and flow of online
    content. "Now, for the first time, its cultural relevance is in question... all
    around us are signs that the era of 'peak Google' is ending or, possibly, already over."

    Funnily enough, I've decided Google is over and put Googlebot on the
    disallow list in my robots.txt file recently. If they want to link to me
    from links they've found elsewhere, whatever, but I'm not helping them
    anymore.

    Elijah
    ------
    added a bunch of things to robots.txt in recent weeks

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 4 07:21:41 2023
    Am 02.09.2023 um 22:03:12 Uhr schrieb Retrograde:

    "Now, for the first time, its cultural relevance is in question... all
    around us are signs that the era of 'peak Google' is ending or,
    possibly, already over."

    I don't think that Google's relevance is really in question. Critism
    has been there for more than 10 years, although people still use and
    create mailboxes at GMail, they still use YouTube, they still buy and
    use Android phones, they still use the Google search.

    Discussions about privacy happened, but most people don't care at all
    about it at the end of the day.

    Companies move to Gmail instead of running their own infrastructure,
    Google gets more and more customers.

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  • From Oregonian Haruspex@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Tue Sep 5 20:56:06 2023
    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    Am 02.09.2023 um 22:03:12 Uhr schrieb Retrograde:

    "Now, for the first time, its cultural relevance is in question... all
    around us are signs that the era of 'peak Google' is ending or,
    possibly, already over."

    I don't think that Google's relevance is really in question. Critism
    has been there for more than 10 years, although people still use and
    create mailboxes at GMail, they still use YouTube, they still buy and
    use Android phones, they still use the Google search.

    Discussions about privacy happened, but most people don't care at all
    about it at the end of the day.

    Companies move to Gmail instead of running their own infrastructure,
    Google gets more and more customers.



    My wife’s a teacher and everything runs on Google, it’s pretty shocking. District likes it because it’s easy. Children these days are trained to use their real names online. It’s really a brave new world.

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  • From rdh@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 6 00:14:40 2023
    I'm not sure what it says about me or TikTok, but I always am a bit
    amused when people say kids are searching on TikTok instead of Google.
    Sure, Google results have been garbage for decades, but if I'm ever
    searching for something specific on TikTok, I find videos about videos
    about the topic, rather than videos about the topic.

    For instance, a search for "Mitch McConnel freezes" yields results with
    people talking about Mitch, with a still of him in the background, and
    almost *never* a video of him freezing.

    For my time, I'll stick with DuckDuckGo.

    --
    ~rdh

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  • From candycane@21:1/172 to Marco Moock on Wed Sep 6 08:31:56 2023
    I don't think that Google's relevance is really in question. Critism
    has been there for more than 10 years, although people still use and create mailboxes at GMail, they still use YouTube, they still buy and
    use Android phones, they still use the Google search.

    From what I've heard, the education space is starting to move away from Google.

    ---------------
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    ... Fidonet Unplugged - One in a million.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)
  • From Rich@21:1/5 to rdh on Wed Sep 6 13:02:48 2023
    rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
    I'm not sure what it says about me or TikTok, but I always am a bit
    amused when people say kids are searching on TikTok instead of
    Google. Sure, Google results have been garbage for decades, but if
    I'm ever searching for something specific on TikTok, I find videos
    about videos about the topic, rather than videos about the topic.

    Keep in mind that the original article was written by a press reporter.
    They have a long history of being wrong about everything they write
    (usually because they are covering a subject they know nothing about,
    so they have no idea when they insert a wrong word that reverses the
    meaning of something).

    "searching on tiktoc" could very well have been the reporters screwed
    up wording for some other meaning.

    This is the source of the "Gell-Mann Amnesia" effect <URL:https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-gell-mann-amnesia-effect-is-as-follows-you>
    in many of their subscribers when reading their articles.

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 6 15:09:22 2023
    Am 05.09.2023 um 20:56:06 Uhr schrieb Oregonian Haruspex:

    My wife’s a teacher and everything runs on Google, it’s pretty
    shocking. District likes it because it’s easy.

    They especially like it because Google runs it. Running own servers
    needs time and costs money for the technicians.

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 6 15:39:00 2023
    Am 06.09.2023 um 08:31:56 Uhr schrieb candycane:

    From what I've heard, the education space is starting to move away
    from Google.

    Where?
    Here in Germany more and more moves into the "cloud".

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  • From candycane@21:1/172 to rdh on Wed Sep 6 19:53:56 2023
    amused when people say kids are searching on TikTok instead of Google. Sure, Google results have been garbage for decades, but if I'm ever searching for something specific on TikTok, I find videos about videos about the topic, rather than videos about the topic.

    Wait, people are using TikTok as a search engine??

    ---------------
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    ... Walking destinations are further then they appear.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)
  • From candycane@21:1/172 to rdh on Thu Sep 7 08:10:45 2023
    amused when people say kids are searching on TikTok instead of Google. Sure, Google results have been garbage for decades, but if I'm ever searching for something specific on TikTok, I find videos about videos about the topic, rather than videos about the topic.

    Wait, people are using TikTok as a search engine??

    ---------------
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

    ... Walking destinations are further then they appear.
    ___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

    --- Mystic BBS/QWK v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: The Bottomless Abyss BBS * bbs.bottomlessabyss.net (21:1/172)
  • From Matthew Ernisse@21:1/5 to candycane on Thu Sep 7 12:45:32 2023
    On Wed, 06 Sep 2023 19:53:56 +1300, candycane wrote:
    Wait, people are using TikTok as a search engine??

    People have been using Facebook and Twitter and Youtube as search
    engines for decades and you are surprised? If it has a "search"
    field, people will do what it says on the tin.

    --
    "The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."
    --Kosh

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  • From scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Thu Sep 7 16:54:30 2023
    The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
    Google may have a lot to answer for, but it was originally the absolute
    best search engine and deserved its popularity. Now it throws up a lot
    of trash before you find anything even close to what you're looking for,
    but is there anything actually better?

    I've been using Qwant lately...AFAICT, it usually gets me the results I
    want.

    --
    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to Matthew Ernisse on Thu Sep 7 09:24:48 2023
    On 9/7/23 5:45 AM, Matthew Ernisse wrote:
    On Wed, 06 Sep 2023 19:53:56 +1300, candycane wrote:
    Wait, people are using TikTok as a search engine??

    People have been using Facebook and Twitter and Youtube as search
    engines for decades and you are surprised? If it has a "search"
    field, people will do what it says on the tin.

    We're all doomed.

    Google may have a lot to answer for, but it was originally the absolute
    best search engine and deserved its popularity. Now it throws up a lot
    of trash before you find anything even close to what you're looking for,
    but is there anything actually better?

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    I'd rather not have neighbors. If I can see them, they're too close.
    In fact, if I can see them through a rifle scope, they're too close.
    -- Anonymous Coward

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  • From Dan Purgert@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Thu Sep 7 21:22:15 2023
    On 2023-09-07, The Real Bev wrote:
    On 9/7/23 5:45 AM, Matthew Ernisse wrote:
    On Wed, 06 Sep 2023 19:53:56 +1300, candycane wrote:
    Wait, people are using TikTok as a search engine??

    People have been using Facebook and Twitter and Youtube as search
    engines for decades and you are surprised? If it has a "search"
    field, people will do what it says on the tin.

    We're all doomed.

    Yep.


    Google may have a lot to answer for, but it was originally the absolute
    best search engine and deserved its popularity. Now it throws up a lot
    of trash before you find anything even close to what you're looking for,
    but is there anything actually better?

    Altavista. ;)



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    |O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

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  • From rdh@21:1/5 to The Real Bev on Thu Sep 7 16:51:30 2023
    On 9/7/23 11:24, The Real Bev wrote:
    Google may have a lot to answer for, but it was originally the absolute
    best search engine and deserved its popularity.  Now it throws up a lot
    of trash before you find anything even close to what you're looking for,
    but is there anything actually better?

    Depending on what you're looking for, DuckDuckGo might offer better
    results, but barely. Search is kind of dead, thanks to all of the
    blogspam out there gaming the system.

    --
    ~rdh

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to rdh on Fri Sep 8 08:24:32 2023
    rdh <rdh@tilde.institute> wrote:
    On 9/7/23 11:24, The Real Bev wrote:
    Google may have a lot to answer for, but it was originally the absolute
    best search engine and deserved its popularity. Now it throws up a lot
    of trash before you find anything even close to what you're looking for,
    but is there anything actually better?

    Depending on what you're looking for, DuckDuckGo might offer better
    results, but barely.

    Of course DDG really get their results from Bing (they even admit
    it now), so it's still built on one of the evil tech empires
    (Microsoft).

    DDG offer a great "Lite" mode though, and URL parameters allow
    customisations like disabling advertising, so functionality-wise
    they still win out for me. I toyed with switching to SearX, but it
    doesn't have a similar lightweight interface, and the instances pop
    up and down like yo-yos.

    Search is kind of dead, thanks to all of the
    blogspam out there gaming the system.

    I often use "site:" to search within specific big websites that are
    likely to have the content that I want, in combination with direct
    searches on those websites if they have the ability (and it doesn't
    rely on Javascript).

    But I can't remember exactly how well search engines worked in the
    past to know whether they've got better or worse. The range of
    content that's available on the live (as opposed to archived) web
    might have got weaker in some areas though.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

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  • From The Real Bev@21:1/5 to rdh on Fri Sep 8 20:11:32 2023
    On 9/7/23 2:51 PM, rdh wrote:
    On 9/7/23 11:24, The Real Bev wrote:
    Google may have a lot to answer for, but it was originally the absolute
    best search engine and deserved its popularity.  Now it throws up a lot
    of trash before you find anything even close to what you're looking for,
    but is there anything actually better?

    Depending on what you're looking for, DuckDuckGo might offer better
    results, but barely. Search is kind of dead, thanks to all of the
    blogspam out there gaming the system.

    That's why we still have brains. Some of us, anyway.

    --
    Cheers, Bev
    "When your enemies are making mistakes, don't interrupt them."
    -- from the film 'Moneyball'

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