On 29/04/2023 14:47, Retrograde wrote:
Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student
where they'd saved their project. Could they be on the desktop?
Perhaps in the shared drive? But over and over, she was met with
confusion. "What are you talking about?" multiple students
inquired. Not only did they not know where their files were saved —
they didn't understand the question.
Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her
fellow educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of
file folders and directories, essential to previous generations'
understanding of computers, is gibberish to many modern students.
Blame Microsoft.
Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where they'd saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you talking about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where their files were saved — they didn't understand the question.
Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her fellow educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of file folders and
directories, essential to previous generations' understanding of computers, is
gibberish to many modern students.
From the ??on the website?? department:....snip....
Feed: SoylentNews
Title: File Not Found
Author: janrinok
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 09:52:00 -0400
Link: https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=23/04/27/158230&from=rss
owl[1] writes:
https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-educa
tion-gen-z[2]
A generation that grew up with Google is forcing professors to rethink their lesson plans
Catherine Garland, an astrophysicist, started seeing the problem in 2017. She was teaching an engineering course, and her students were using simulation software to model turbines for jet engines. She'd laid out the assignment clearly, but student after student was calling her over for help. They were all getting the same error message: The program couldn't find their files.
Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where they'd >saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared >drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you talking >about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where their >files were saved — they didn't understand the question.
On 2023-04-29, Retrograde <fun...@amongus.com.invalid> wrote:<snip>
all getting the same error message: The program couldn't find their files.....snip....
This is very US-centric. I'd be curious to know if this is a problem in different countries.
What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern existence.
On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 01:14:39 UTC+2, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
existence.
Not to mention the trolls and spammers all over the place to finish the job.
We deserve our own extinction...
On 30/04/2023 11:29, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
On Sunday, 30 April 2023 at 01:14:39 UTC+2, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern existence.
Not to mention the trolls and spammers all over the place to finish the job.
We deserve our own extinction...
The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts trolling with us humans...
The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts trolling with us humans...
If you are somehow reading usenet from the future, yeah we told them
that this would happen and Microsoft still went ahead and did it.
The grim end will come when a spammer trains an AI, and the AI starts trolling with us humans...
If you are somehow reading usenet from the future, yeah we told them
that this would happen and Microsoft still went ahead and did it.
Would be fun to think that in the future Usenet is still standing,
while the Twitters of the universe came, went, and left nothing behind.
"Fun to think" by yet another spammer and nymshifter as
another fundamental category from the readers digest.
Sure, keep going, indeed to the record.
Julio
What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern existence.
On 29/04/2023 14:47, Retrograde wrote:
Garland thought it would be an easy fix. She asked each student where
they'd
saved their project. Could they be on the desktop? Perhaps in the shared
drive? But over and over, she was met with confusion. "What are you
talking
about?" multiple students inquired. Not only did they not know where
their
files were saved — they didn't understand the question.
Gradually, Garland came to the same realization that many of her fellow
educators have reached in the past four years: the concept of file
folders and
directories, essential to previous generations' understanding of
computers, is
gibberish to many modern students.
Blame Microsoft. >
In the world of MS-DOS, it was common to see everything and anything in
the root of a C drive. A messy clean up job.
With Windows came, all this piled into the the 'My Documents' folder. Different location, same mess.
When Vista came, they had a grand idea of a new filing system with
enhanced search of metadata (so filenames became not so important).
However, that got the chop - folks just want to title their ripped MP3's filenames than play around with tags.
Now everything is redirected in local, offline and online profiles.
In a company, file duplication is a huge waste of disk space. They are working on that.
I shudder to think of the duplication on Google Drive.
On the other hand, there are data storing apps on Mobile Phones that
don't have the concepts of filenames.
And professionally, I work with a content management system that also
does not have file names.
It's a database. Metadata ;-)
Fast forward to the 21st century and we have globally unique GUIDs and
UUIDs that can serve the same purpose: give each file created a uuid and track that.
So when you open an app and ask to open a recently accessed file, the
app opens the file using a uuid aware version of fopen() which knows how
to search the local drives and also (via extensions) how to ask Google
Docs / Office 365 / WhizzoStore9000 to search corporate repositories.
And if the file gets renamed in the corporate repository (because we all
know that users are incapable of following naming conventions) then it
won't matter.
On 30-Apr-23 9:14 am, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern existence.
Give it another ten years for some of the students to become teachers,
and we'll be royally screwed.
On Wed, 3 May 2023 12:21:11 +0100
Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
Fast forward to the 21st century and we have globally unique GUIDs and
UUIDs that can serve the same purpose: give each file created a uuid and
track that.
So when you open an app and ask to open a recently accessed file, the
app opens the file using a uuid aware version of fopen() which knows how
to search the local drives and also (via extensions) how to ask Google
Docs / Office 365 / WhizzoStore9000 to search corporate repositories.
And if the file gets renamed in the corporate repository (because we all
know that users are incapable of following naming conventions) then it
won't matter.
But for this you would need the operating systems in WhizzoStore9000 and the rest to support this functionality. It seems difficult to get all the operating system maintainers to cooperate. And some may view it as a matter of freedom or privacy for the users to be able to change or erase the UUIDs corresponding to files.
nazi-retards
Julio Di Egidio <ju...@diegidio.name> wrote:
nazi-retardsGodwin's Law lives.
* PLONK *
On 30-Apr-23 9:14 am, Blue-Maned_Hawk wrote:
What a sorry state our education system is in that students should not
understand the technology that is woven into the fabric of our modern
existence.
Give it another ten years for some of the students to become teachers,
and we'll be royally screwed.
Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure >"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
either :)
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure >>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
either :)
For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.
On 2023-05-05, Stefan Ram wrote:
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure >>>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
either :)
For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.
Sure, but the original post here (and continued discussion) has focused
on "kids" not knowing where something was saved / not understanding filesystem layouts. I'm just making the counterpoint that it's not
exactly "new" :)
Probably scores of other things are also used in our daily lives where
it's just a case of "this is what it is", but IN GENERAL the populace
doesn't know (or necessarily care) why.
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure >>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news
either :)
For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.
On the other hand, how many of us know where the descriptors "Upper
Case" and "Lower Case" come from? Or (for potentially the slightly
younger crowd -- genX / Millennial) why Windows' "File Folders" are
known as "Directories" in *nix, or why we have "Carriage Return" at the
end of a line in a text file (or, if you're in Windows, a "Line Feed" as well).
Probably scores of other things are also used in our daily lives where
it's just a case of "this is what it is", but IN GENERAL the populace
doesn't know (or necessarily care) why.
But it doesn't have to be that way. A database is another way
to subdivide and structure information, and change can be tracked using
diffs and deltas (as in a version control system).
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
On 2023-05-05, Stefan Ram wrote:
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> writes:
Granted, after working in IT for the last 15 years ... I'm pretty sure >>>>"people don't know where they saved their docs" isn't exactly news >>>>either :)
For Microsoft® Windows, there's a program called "Everything".
One enters a part of a filename, and it shows all matching
files in a few seconds (usually less than 10 seconds). People
don't have to know where they saved their files any longer.
Sure, but the original post here (and continued discussion) has focused
on "kids" not knowing where something was saved / not understanding
filesystem layouts. I'm just making the counterpoint that it's not
exactly "new" :)
If you go take a look at the original post, it was actually that "kids"
had no actual conceptiual understanding that there were these things
called "files", nor any understanding of what a "filesystem" was. Not
just that they didn't know "where" -- they simply did not understand
"what" in the first place. And without an understanding of "what",
asking "where" was pointless.
The subsequent discussion was what diverged into losing track of
"where" one had saved one's files.
Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> wrote:
On the other hand, how many of us know where the descriptors "Upper
Case" and "Lower Case" come from? Or (for potentially the slightly
younger crowd -- genX / Millennial) why Windows' "File Folders" are
known as "Directories" in *nix, or why we have "Carriage Return" at the
end of a line in a text file (or, if you're in Windows, a "Line Feed" as
well).
Probably scores of other things are also used in our daily lives where
it's just a case of "this is what it is", but IN GENERAL the populace
doesn't know (or necessarily care) why.
Arguably there is nothing magical about the concept of a file. The concepts under discussion are how to subdivide and structure information, and how to manage its change.
[...]
For example, an email inbox contains a number of objects (emails), but they are not managed as files - they are read, replied, moved, tagged, deleted... They may exist as Unix files in the backend, or maybe entirely in some DB. Actions that happen to them (moving to a different folder) may change their DB metadata but not actually affect their filesystem location.
On Friday, 5 May 2023 at 22:24:15 UTC+2, Theo wrote:
And then even mock the new generations, and you pieces
of vile retarded shit deserve to be shot into outer space....
Julio
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