• Re: on the python paradox

    From Y A@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 11 08:08:50 2023
    The whole life is a big paradox, because we do not know, why did everything not start on a moment and how can this be.
    Mystic....







    On Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 3:37:42 AM UTC+2, Sabrina Almodóvar wrote:
    The Python Paradox
    Paul Graham
    August 2004

    In a recent talk [1] I said something that upset a lot of people: that
    you could get smarter programmers to work on a Python project than you
    could to work on a Java project.

    I didn't mean by this that Java programmers are dumb. I meant that
    Python programmers are smart. It's a lot of work to learn a new
    programming language. And people don't learn Python because it will
    get them a job; they learn it because they genuinely like to program
    and aren't satisfied with the languages they already know.

    Which makes them exactly the kind of programmers companies should want
    to hire. Hence what, for lack of a better name, I'll call the Python paradox: if a company chooses to write its software in a comparatively esoteric language, they'll be able to hire better programmers, because they'll attract only those who cared enough to learn it. And for
    programmers the paradox is even more pronounced: the language to
    learn, if you want to get a good job, is a language that people don't
    learn merely to get a job.

    Only a few companies have been smart enough to realize this so
    far. But there is a kind of selection going on here too: they're
    exactly the companies programmers would most like to work for. Google,
    for example. When they advertise Java programming jobs, they also want Python experience.

    A friend of mine who knows nearly all the widely used languages uses
    Python for most of his projects. He says the main reason is that he
    likes the way source code looks. That may seem a frivolous reason to
    choose one language over another. But it is not so frivolous as it
    sounds: when you program, you spend more time reading code than
    writing it. You push blobs of source code around the way a sculptor
    does blobs of clay. So a language that makes source code ugly is
    maddening to an exacting programmer, as clay full of lumps would be to
    a sculptor.

    At the mention of ugly source code, people will of course think of
    Perl. But the superficial ugliness of Perl is not the sort I
    mean. Real ugliness is not harsh-looking syntax, but having to build programs out of the wrong concepts. Perl may look like a cartoon
    character swearing, but there are cases where it surpasses Python conceptually.

    So far, anyway. Both languages are of course moving targets. But they
    share, along with Ruby (and Icon, and Joy, and J, and Lisp, and
    Smalltalk) the fact that they're created by, and used by, people who
    really care about programming. And those tend to be the ones who do it
    well.

    (*) Footnotes

    [1] Audio of the talk, also attached to this post http://origin.conversationsnetwork.org/Paul%20Graham%20-%20Great%20Hackers.mp3

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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to Stefan Ram on Sun Feb 12 08:35:17 2023
    XPost: comp.lang.python

    In comp.misc Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:
    Then we're doomed, because Python is appallingly slow. Not even Moore's
    law can save us.

    Well, then what language do you use for what kind of projects?

    Cue flame war.

    BTW: Maybe you are new to this newsgroup? So let me inform
    you that if you post to comp.lang.python, sometimes, a computer
    set up by a mailing-list person will make a copy of your post and
    automatically post it to his Python mailing list, which possibly
    also might be published in the Web - all without your consent.

    We all show up on narkive.com (and probably elsewhere) anyway, even
    you with your X-No-Archive header.

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  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 13 13:48:33 2023
    XPost: comp.lang.python

    Stefan Ram:

    Well, then what language do you use for what kind of
    projects?

    Julia is faster and expressively more powerful than Python.

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  • From Anton Shepelev@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 13 13:53:32 2023
    XPost: comp.lang.python

    Stefan Ram:

    Well, then what language do you use for what kind of
    projects?

    Python, IMHO, is overestimated. Its popularity is mostly due
    to the enormous amount of very good libraries, written in C
    for speed. Nothing efficient can be written in bare Python.

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  • From Ron Lauzon@21:4/137 to Anton Shepelev on Wed Feb 15 05:27:03 2023
    On 13 Feb 2023, Anton Shepelev said the following...

    XPost: comp.lang.python

    Stefan Ram:

    Well, then what language do you use for what kind of
    projects?

    Julia is faster and expressively more powerful than Python.

    But doesn't have the wealth of 3rd party support like Python.

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