Ancient hardware deserves ancient kernels, but cannot justify
consuming developers' valuable time
Linux boss Linus Torvalds has contemplated ending support for the
i486 processor architecture in the Linux kernel.…
Am 25.10.2022 um 12:33:56 Uhr schrieb Retrograde:
Ancient hardware deserves ancient kernels, but cannot justify
consuming developers' valuable time
Linux boss Linus Torvalds has contemplated ending support for the
i486 processor architecture in the Linux kernel.?
Most Linux distributions provide only support for i686, that was the
Pentium Pro. I cannot even imagine how it is possible to run a 486
with enough RAM (256 MB) to boot the current kernel.
Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
Am 25.10.2022 um 12:33:56 Uhr schrieb Retrograde:
Ancient hardware deserves ancient kernels, but cannot justify
consuming developers' valuable time
Linux boss Linus Torvalds has contemplated ending support for the
i486 processor architecture in the Linux kernel.?
Most Linux distributions provide only support for i686, that was the
Pentium Pro. I cannot even imagine how it is possible to run a 486
with enough RAM (256 MB) to boot the current kernel.
The i486 chip family supported 32 bit physical addresses (which allow
for 4G of RAM per process) and 46 bit logical virtual addresses (which
would allow for a lot more than 4G of RAM for the system) [1].
Granted, nearly all boards containing a 486 would not allow insertion
of enough physical ram chips to get anywhere near 4G of physical RAM,
much less 2^46 bytes of ram, but I'd bet there were some i486 boards
back in the day (more likely to be server class than desktop class)
that did allow for a lot more than 256MB of RAM.
Am 25.10.2022 um 12:33:56 Uhr schrieb Retrograde:
Ancient hardware deserves ancient kernels, but cannot justify
consuming developers' valuable time
Linux boss Linus Torvalds has contemplated ending support for the
i486 processor architecture in the Linux kernel....
Most Linux distributions provide only support for i686, that was the
Pentium Pro. I cannot even imagine how it is possible to run a 486 with enough RAM (256 MB) to boot the current kernel.
Link: https://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.com/2022/10/25/486_support_linux_kernel_ending/
Ancient hardware deserves ancient kernels, but cannot justify consuming developers' valuable time
Linux boss Linus Torvalds has contemplated ending support for the i486 processor
architecture in the Linux kernel....
Where did you get 256MB from?
I've booted a current Linux kernel with much less. Indeed the router
that I'm connecting through for posting this only has 32MB of RAM and
"uname -a" tells me:
Linux OpenWrt 5.10.138 #0 SMP Sat Sep 3 02:55:34 2022 mips GNU/Linux
Granted, nearly all boards containing a 486 would not allow insertion
of enough physical ram chips to get anywhere near 4G of physical RAM,
much less 2^46 bytes of ram, but I'd bet there were some i486 boards
back in the day (more likely to be server class than desktop class)
that did allow for a lot more than 256MB of RAM.
Am 26 Oct 2022 07:58:20 +1000
schrieb not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev):
Where did you get 256MB from?
My own experiments with Linux distributions like Debian. 386 MiB works
pretty fine.
I've booted a current Linux kernel with much less. Indeed the router
that I'm connecting through for posting this only has 32MB of RAM and
"uname -a" tells me:
Linux OpenWrt 5.10.138 #0 SMP Sat Sep 3 02:55:34 2022 mips GNU/Linux
Is that the normal kernel or did they removed all features a router
doesn't need?
Then it sounds normal, but I cannot believe that it is possible to boot
a distribution with additional software like systemd or daemon services
with 32 MiB.
Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
Is that the normal kernel or did they removed all features a router
doesn't need?
It's the Linux kernel, but as with all distros they select which
features are enabled when the kernel is compiled. Many features that
a distro like Debian has enabled are likely to be disabled, and this
may cause things like /dev interfaces used by specific software to be unavailable.
Am Tue, 25 Oct 2022 14:17:06 -0000 (UTC)
schrieb Rich <rich@example.invalid>:
Granted, nearly all boards containing a 486 would not allow
insertion of enough physical ram chips to get anywhere near 4G of
physical RAM, much less 2^46 bytes of ram, but I'd bet there were
some i486 boards back in the day (more likely to be server class
than desktop class) that did allow for a lot more than 256MB of RAM.
Do you have some examples that support more?
I can of course believe that for i686 (Pentium Pro), but for i486 it
sounds uncommon.
486 came out in 1989, but was manufactured until 2007 (I assume as a replacement or for embedded systems). I know that Heidelberg
printing systems had some boards for i486 to show it to their
visitors, but I dunno if their new machines still use them.
There's also at least one DIY board which supports up to 4GB of
RAM, the Full Size S100 80486 Board: http://www.s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/80486%20Board/80486%20CPU%20Board.htm
Do I know of a board that supported more than 256MB? -- no. Does it
seem reasonable that a **server** class board very well might have
supported more than 256MB of installed RAM, yes.
Standard distros often compile the kernel with a majority of common
drivers directly compiled in, leaving the remainder of uncommon ones
as modules, every "compiled in" driver that could have been a module
adds to the minimum ram the kernel needs to boot and get started.
Am 26.10.2022 um 13:08:32 Uhr schrieb Rich:
Standard distros often compile the kernel with a majority of common
drivers directly compiled in, leaving the remainder of uncommon ones
as modules, every "compiled in" driver that could have been a module
adds to the minimum ram the kernel needs to boot and get started.
Thanks, that explains why special operating systems like OpenWRT work
on much less RAM.
486 came out in 1989, but was manufactured until 2007 (I assume as a replacement or for embedded systems).
On 26/10/2022 02:39, Marco Moock wrote:
[...]
486 came out in 1989, but was manufactured until 2007 (I assume as a replacement or for embedded systems).
I bought one in 1994. It was the fastest machine I ever had.
Am 03.12.2022 um 00:14:19 Uhr schrieb Sabrina Almodóvar:
On 26/10/2022 02:39, Marco Moock wrote:
[...]
486 came out in 1989, but was manufactured until 2007 (I assume as a
replacement or for embedded systems).
I bought one in 1994. It was the fastest machine I ever had.
Do you still use it?
On 2022-10-25 15:15:43 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
Am 25.10.2022 um 12:33:56 Uhr schrieb Retrograde:
Ancient hardware deserves ancient kernels, but cannot justify
consuming developers' valuable time
Linux boss Linus Torvalds has contemplated ending support for
the i486 processor architecture in the Linux kernel.
Most Linux distributions provide only support for i686, that was
the Pentium Pro.
I cannot even imagine how it is possible to run a 486 with enough
RAM (256 MB) to boot the current kernel.
The first issue is the ever-increasing complexity of the
software. I can imagine an amateur contributor to the NetBSD
kernel. Feel free to provide counter-examples, but my
impression is that someone who contributes to Linux in near
every case does it as part of their full-time job (in essence
even if not in the name.)
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