It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:
Here's another option I might have. I could just forward my Gmail
e-mail to another mailbox and then pull my email from this other
mailbox. But this other mailbox would have to allow me some easy
authentication and also let me SMTP-send mail from it.
How do you access the net? Whatever company is providing your IP
address or handing you one each time you connect should have an SMTP
server on their system. Such a server shoud recognize your IP address
as "one of ours" and allow you to connect and send mail.
I do my mail through a surviving mom 'n pop ISP but I connect through a
major telecom company. If the local ISP is down (it suffers from the
same power outages I do) I can swap in a different set of config
files, restart sendmail, and send via the corporate SMTP server. My
local ISP requires me to use TLS and AUTH on port 587 as I appear to
it to be "foreign" but the corporate server apparently sees me as "one
of ours" and accepts SMTP on port 25 as usual. (This doesn't help with receiving mail when the local ISP is down, of course.)
FWIW, I've never used Gmail because I dread the kind of thing you're encountering -- hacking a corporate interface -- far more than I do
the task of hacking sendmail (which is, as they say, marginally above
my pay grade. :-)
On 27/01/2024 14:51, Julieta Shem wrote:
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
There's a process to get an authorisation string for your gmail accounts
- I did it so very, very long ago I no longer recall what I did, but
it's still working with getmail - so google should eventually point you
to the right place.
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
Here's another option I might have. I could just forward my Gmail
e-mail to another mailbox and then pull my email from this other
mailbox. But this other mailbox would have to allow me some easy authentication and also let me SMTP-send mail from it.
I don't have an SMTP server myself. To do that with, say, Proton Mail,
I'd have to buy an account because there seems to be no IMAP access to
it without a paid account.
If I were to host my own mail, I suppose I should use it to just get
mail from Gmail and not use it to send mail out to the world because I
can't devote my life to SMTP deliveries right now. So I'd need a way to SMTP-send mail out through Gmail somehow. (I wonder if that's possible still.)
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google".
What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
On 27 Jan 2024 02:23:18 -0400
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:
Here's another option I might have. I could just forward my Gmail
e-mail to another mailbox and then pull my email from this other
mailbox. But this other mailbox would have to allow me some easy
authentication and also let me SMTP-send mail from it.
Does gmail allow forwarding at present ? This is one thing they may turn off
in the future or force you to jump through awkward hoops to achieve it ,
in the name of security , you see.
[…]
On 27/01/2024 14:51, Julieta Shem wrote:
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have
to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked
for credentials? (Very annoying.)
There's a process to get an authorisation string for your gmail
accounts - I did it so very, very long ago I no longer recall what I
did, but it's still working with getmail - so google should eventually
point you to the right place.
Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
On 27/01/2024 14:51, Julieta Shem wrote:
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked >>> for credentials? (Very annoying.)
There's a process to get an authorisation string for your gmail accounts
- I did it so very, very long ago I no longer recall what I did, but
it's still working with getmail - so google should eventually point you
to the right place.
That sounds like what's called "App Passwords" here:
"Crucial to note, however, is that App Passwords will continue to
work, which is good news, because without App Passwords, older
IMAP email clients without OAuth support, such as the ones often
used on legacy or minor operating systems, would cease to work
with Gmail." https://www.osnews.com/story/138392/google-to-restricts-access-to-imap-smtp-pop-to-oauth-this-year/
On 27 Jan 2024 02:23:18 -0400
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:
Here's another option I might have. I could just forward my Gmail
e-mail to another mailbox and then pull my email from this other
mailbox. But this other mailbox would have to allow me some easy
authentication and also let me SMTP-send mail from it.
Does gmail allow forwarding at present ? This is one thing they may turn off
in the future or force you to jump through awkward hoops to achieve it ,
in the name of security , you see.
How do you access the net? Whatever company is providing your IP
address or handing you one each time you connect should have an SMTP
server on their system. Such a server shoud recognize your IP address
as "one of ours" and allow you to connect and send mail.
Is this a universal thing ? Because I don't remember my current ISP advertising this ; but I wasn't really looking.
With such a set up , where would for example notifications for failed deliveries be delivered ?
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
Now, 2-step verifications involve a phone, right? That sucks too.
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> writes:*SKIP* [ 4 lines 2 levels deep]
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have
to ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being
asked for credentials? (Very annoying.)
Here's another option I might have. I could just forward my Gmail
e-mail to another mailbox and then pull my email from this other
mailbox. But this other mailbox would have to allow me some easy authentication and also let me SMTP-send mail from it.
I don't have an SMTP server myself.
To do that with, say, Proton Mail, I'd have to buy an account because
there seems to be no IMAP access to it without a paid account.
If I were to host my own mail, I suppose I should use it to just get
mail from Gmail and not use it to send mail out to the world because I
can't devote my life to SMTP deliveries right now. So I'd need a way
to SMTP-send mail out through Gmail somehow. (I wonder if that's
possible still.)
On 27 Jan 2024 02:23:18 -0400
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
How do you access the net? Whatever company is providing your IP
address or handing you one each time you connect should have an SMTP
server on their system. Such a server shoud recognize your IP address
as "one of ours" and allow you to connect and send mail.
Is this a universal thing ? Because I don't remember my current ISP advertising this ; but I wasn't really looking.
With such a set up, where would for example notifications for
failed deliveries be delivered ?
"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> writes:
On 27/01/2024 14:51, Julieta Shem wrote:
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all
download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
(*) Other questions
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have
to
ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked >>> for credentials? (Very annoying.)
There's a process to get an authorisation string for your gmail
accounts - I did it so very, very long ago I no longer recall what I
did, but it's still working with getmail - so google should eventually
point you to the right place.
Doesn't this involve going to Google Console and creating this string
there? I wouldn't be able to. It's not an @gmail.com account. It's an account owned by an organization. I suppose many would say---don't use
such mail account. I might listen.
On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:44:59 -0800
Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> wrote:
Julieta Shem wrote:
[...]
This ``Sign In with Google'' means the downloader would always have to ask me for passwords? I could never just pull gmail without being asked for credentials? (Very annoying.)
I've always just used POP with Gmail, IMAP occasionally too.
Starting a year or two back, they started requiring Oauth2, which means
a newer email client or falling back to a token for a password.
I used the instructions at https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185833 to generate the token, replaced my password with the token and continued on using pop.gmail.com.
Reading the link and https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/185839 ,
I believe you have to give Google a phone number for this to work. Do I
have this right ?
Otherwise , I fail to see how this increases security. If someone has got your password then they also can follow the process and create a token. Also , if someone guesses the 16 character token then they get access to your emails. It could be that the token is more easily guessable than your password , depending on what processes you use to create passwords.
Doesn't this involve going to Google Console and creating this string
there? I wouldn't be able to. It's not an @gmail.com account. It's an account owned by an organization. I suppose many would say---don't use
such mail account. I might listen.
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
[...]
Doesn't this involve going to Google Console and creating this string
there? I wouldn't be able to. It's not an @gmail.com account. It's an
account owned by an organization. I suppose many would say---don't use
such mail account. I might listen.
Elsewhere you said that you're currently use the 'Less secure app
access' (or whatever it's called) setting. If you could set that setting
in the Google Account, why can't you set other settings?
Please explain your setup in more detail. And what do you mean with
"It's not an @gmail.com account."?
Does that mean that your *login credentials* use another e-mail
address than a @gmail.com address?
Or is the e-mail address used actually send/receive e-mail a
non-@gmail.com address?
(I don't think that could work, but maybe it can.)
In any case, explain if you don't have access to the *Google Account*
and if so, why not.
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes:
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
[...]
Doesn't this involve going to Google Console and creating this string
there? I wouldn't be able to. It's not an @gmail.com account. It's an >> account owned by an organization. I suppose many would say---don't use
such mail account. I might listen.
Elsewhere you said that you're currently use the 'Less secure app
access' (or whatever it's called) setting. If you could set that setting
in the Google Account, why can't you set other settings?
It's not clear to me. I do not find this "app password" option in my
Google Console. Yes, I'm using less-secure-app succesfully. People
here said that it would require a 2-factor authentication. So I assume that's why I don't see an option, because I don't have 2-factor authentication set.
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
The 2-factor auth doesn't require a phone, but requires a physical
device as an alternative. I don't see what the difference is. A phone
is a physical device. Why would I use a second device? Might as well
use the phone.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Please explain your setup in more detail. And what do you mean with
"It's not an @gmail.com account."?
It's a private e-mail domain owned by an organization, which currently
is a client of Google Workspace, so I do have a Google Account, but the domain is not @gmail.com.
Does that mean that your *login credentials* use another e-mail
address than a @gmail.com address?
Yes.
Or is the e-mail address used actually send/receive e-mail a
non-@gmail.com address?
I didn't get the question.
(I don't think that could work, but maybe it can.)
In any case, explain if you don't have access to the *Google Account*
and if so, why not.
I do have access to the Google Account.
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes:
Julieta Shem <jshem@yaxenu.org> wrote:
[...]
Doesn't this involve going to Google Console and creating this string
there? I wouldn't be able to. It's not an @gmail.com account. It's an >> >> account owned by an organization. I suppose many would say---don't use
such mail account. I might listen.
Elsewhere you said that you're currently use the 'Less secure app
access' (or whatever it's called) setting. If you could set that setting >> > in the Google Account, why can't you set other settings?
It's not clear to me. I do not find this "app password" option in my
Google Console. Yes, I'm using less-secure-app succesfully. People
here said that it would require a 2-factor authentication. So I assume
that's why I don't see an option, because I don't have 2-factor
authentication set.
'Google Console' is an unknown term for me. Probably it's something
related to your Google Workspace environment.
For a normal Google Account, this URL should get you there directly:
<https://myaccount.google.com/apppasswords>
And, as I said earlier, in a normal Google Account, you can just enter
"App passwords" in the search box on the account Home page.
Hope this helps a bit.
It seems Gmail is decomissioning username-password authentication.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
I'd like to read my mail with Gnus (using djb's Maildir storage). I
can't stand Gmail any longer. I'm done.
Before anything else, I'd like thank everyone who provided very valuable
help on this thread. Thank you all!
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes:
For a normal Google Account, this URL should get you there directly:
<https://myaccount.google.com/apppasswords>
And, as I said earlier, in a normal Google Account, you can just enter
"App passwords" in the search box on the account Home page.
I get
The setting you are looking for is not available for your account.
I also see a broken robot. That explains why I can't find it. It's not available to me.
On 30/01/2024 01:57, Julieta Shem wrote:
Before anything else, I'd like thank everyone who provided very valuable[SNIP]
help on this thread. Thank you all!
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes:
For a normal Google Account, this URL should get you there directly:
<https://myaccount.google.com/apppasswords>
And, as I said earlier, in a normal Google Account, you can just enter >>> "App passwords" in the search box on the account Home page.
I get
The setting you are looking for is not available for your account.
I also see a broken robot. That explains why I can't find it. It's not
available to me.
It's not available because 2FA is not activated.
Everything is predicated on turning 2FA on, and if you don't do that
soon you will lose all access to the account.
Clients will have to use "Sign in with Google". What happens to all >download-email programs? I'm looking for one, in fact. If I want to
pull my mail via POP or IMAP today, what would I have to use?
On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 05:15:00 Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
On 30/01/2024 01:57, Julieta Shem wrote:
Before anything else, I'd like thank everyone who provided very valuable >> help on this thread. Thank you all![SNIP]
Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> writes:
For a normal Google Account, this URL should get you there directly: >>>
<https://myaccount.google.com/apppasswords>
And, as I said earlier, in a normal Google Account, you can just enter >>> "App passwords" in the search box on the account Home page.
I get
The setting you are looking for is not available for your account.
I also see a broken robot. That explains why I can't find it. It's not >> available to me.
It's not available because 2FA is not activated.
Everything is predicated on turning 2FA on, and if you don't do that
soon you will lose all access to the account.
I had this option activated quite some time ago (I use mailx), and I can
also use the generated password on new machines, but I faintly remember
that google might have removed this option altogether.
next , the easier it will be. In my case , my domain registrar (Gandi) also provides email storage (with SMTP and IMAP access. I'm not sure if there is also a web interface) as a bonus for buying the domain so my plan is to set up that. But I still want to make gmail access through an external client work as an intermediate step.
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