• Re: Distribution list?

    From Martin Neitzel@21:1/5 to knute2024@585ranch.com on Mon Feb 19 22:20:05 2024
    Knute Johnson <knute2024@585ranch.com> wrote:
    I need to set up a distribution list. [...] I know that I can make a
    large entry in /etc/aliases but is there a more common or better way of
    doing this?

    /etc/aliases is just fine. I don't hesitate to put alias lists in there
    with, say, twenty users. Note that you can also define an alias with

    somelist :include:/file/name

    mechanism to delegate the address list (and their maintainance) to
    somewhere else. (In fact, most mailing list software is using exactly
    this mechanism.)

    As long as the distribution list is for a very small, tightly knit group,
    and senders care about reaching *all* other member, the users will probably prefer to receive bounce messages directly. (An internal distribution
    list for some project team, or the list for my six fellow road byciclists
    work good this way.)

    Whenever senders don't really care about who exactly is on the list ("support@...") then bounces should go to whoever is maintaining the
    /etc/alias entry or the :included: address list. In that case, simply
    add a corresponding "owner-" alias"

    owner-somelist: postmaster

    This will cause the envelope-sender to be changes, and thusly the address bounces will go to. This also is a MUST as soon as you add external
    addresses to the list. (Otherwise, you'll probably violat a sender's
    SPF restrictions.)

    Martin Neitzel

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  • From Knute Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 19 11:47:40 2024
    I need to set up a distribution list. Where one email is sent to one
    user and it is then sent to multiple other users. They are all local
    users although that might change. I know that I can make a large entry
    in /etc/aliases but is there a more common or better way of doing this?

    --

    Knute Johnson

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 20 07:41:16 2024
    On 19.02.2024 um 11:47 Uhr Knute Johnson wrote:

    I need to set up a distribution list. Where one email is sent to one
    user and it is then sent to multiple other users. They are all local
    users although that might change. I know that I can make a large
    entry in /etc/aliases but is there a more common or better way of
    doing this?

    If you want a more flexible way, use a mailing list software like
    Mailman, Listserv or Sympa.

    --
    kind regards
    Marco

    Send spam to muell456@cartoonies.org

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  • From Mike Scott@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Tue Feb 20 09:35:08 2024
    On 20/02/2024 06:41, Marco Moock wrote:
    On 19.02.2024 um 11:47 Uhr Knute Johnson wrote:

    I need to set up a distribution list. Where one email is sent to one
    user and it is then sent to multiple other users. They are all local
    users although that might change. I know that I can make a large
    entry in /etc/aliases but is there a more common or better way of
    doing this?

    If you want a more flexible way, use a mailing list software like
    Mailman, Listserv or Sympa.

    IIRC the latest mailman doesn't really support sendmail. mailman2 used
    to, but uses python2 so is rather obsolete, although not hard to set up
    and use.

    spf and dkim have rather messed up a simple approach :-{

    I've been hoping to find a simple internet service for this job, but
    haven't seen anything obvious (plenty of commercial "mailing list
    managers" that seem oriented around using a web service to send business material, which isn't what's wanted here). Does anyone know of any such?


    --
    Mike Scott
    Harlow, England

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 20 11:40:37 2024
    On 20.02.2024 um 09:35 Uhr Mike Scott wrote:

    On 20/02/2024 06:41, Marco Moock wrote:
    On 19.02.2024 um 11:47 Uhr Knute Johnson wrote:

    I need to set up a distribution list. Where one email is sent to
    one user and it is then sent to multiple other users. They are
    all local users although that might change. I know that I can
    make a large entry in /etc/aliases but is there a more common or
    better way of doing this?

    If you want a more flexible way, use a mailing list software like
    Mailman, Listserv or Sympa.

    IIRC the latest mailman doesn't really support sendmail.

    https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html

    Sendmail support LMTP. https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/sendmail-3rd-edition/1565928393/re166.html

    spf and dkim have rather messed up a simple approach :-{

    As long as you don't change the message, DKIM will be fine.
    MAIL FROM must be set to the listserver address, so it can process
    bounces.
    That makes SPF work.

    The problem is DMARC alignment because now SPF domain and DKIM domain
    aren't the same in some situations.

    I've been hoping to find a simple internet service for this job, but
    haven't seen anything obvious (plenty of commercial "mailing list
    managers" that seem oriented around using a web service to send
    business material, which isn't what's wanted here). Does anyone know
    of any such?

    Mailman and Sympa are for free.
    Sympa can be used by stdin, so aliases/virtuser-aliases can be used and
    it supports creating those files automatically.

    --
    kind regards
    Marco

    Send spam to muell456@cartoonies.org

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  • From Mike Scott@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Tue Feb 20 10:55:51 2024
    On 20/02/2024 10:40, Marco Moock wrote:
    ....

    IIRC the latest mailman doesn't really support sendmail.

    https://docs.mailman3.org/projects/mailman/en/latest/src/mailman/docs/mta.html

    Sendmail support LMTP. https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/sendmail-3rd-edition/1565928393/re166.html

    spf and dkim have rather messed up a simple approach :-{

    As long as you don't change the message, DKIM will be fine.
    MAIL FROM must be set to the listserver address, so it can process
    bounces.
    That makes SPF work.

    The problem is DMARC alignment because now SPF domain and DKIM domain
    aren't the same in some situations.

    Thanks for the clarification. I'm afraid I got my setup to work,
    somehow, a few years ago. I've rather forgotten the details.


    I've been hoping to find a simple internet service for this job, but
    haven't seen anything obvious (plenty of commercial "mailing list
    managers" that seem oriented around using a web service to send
    business material, which isn't what's wanted here). Does anyone know
    of any such?

    Mailman and Sympa are for free.
    Sympa can be used by stdin, so aliases/virtuser-aliases can be used and
    it supports creating those files automatically.


    Thanks for the reply.

    I was running mailman2 at home on behalf of a local choir; I stopped a
    couple of years ago when the choir reduced its activities somewhat.

    I'm really looking for a way to avoid running a "private" mail server at
    all - I need a way to provide a members' mail list for a local church
    without needing a server that will need someone to manage it. I'm
    surprised not to find cheap (free even?) mail list exploder services around.


    --
    Mike Scott
    Harlow, England

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 20 12:47:59 2024
    On 20.02.2024 um 10:55 Uhr Mike Scott wrote:

    I'm really looking for a way to avoid running a "private" mail server
    at all - I need a way to provide a members' mail list for a local
    church without needing a server that will need someone to manage it.
    I'm surprised not to find cheap (free even?) mail list exploder
    services around.

    You can rent such services:
    https://theworld.com/world/about/rates_schedule

    --
    kind regards
    Marco

    Send spam to muell456@cartoonies.org

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Mike Scott on Tue Feb 20 22:30:02 2024
    On 2/20/24 03:35, Mike Scott wrote:
    spf and dkim have rather messed up a simple approach :-{

    SRS seems to work just fine for me.



    Grant. . . .

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  • From Knute Johnson@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Wed Feb 21 11:01:26 2024
    On 2/20/24 22:30, Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/20/24 03:35, Mike Scott wrote:
    spf and dkim have rather messed up a simple approach :-{

    SRS seems to work just fine for me.



    Grant. . . .

    Pardon my ignorance but what is SRS?

    --

    Knute Johnson

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  • From Marco Moock@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 21 20:51:27 2024
    On 21.02.2024 um 11:01 Uhr Knute Johnson wrote:

    Pardon my ignorance but what is SRS?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme

    --
    kind regards
    Marco

    Send spam to muell456@cartoonies.org

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Knute Johnson on Wed Feb 21 21:01:23 2024
    On 2/21/24 11:01, Knute Johnson wrote:
    Pardon my ignorance but what is SRS?

    There's nothing to pardon. Being ignorant of something is a starting
    place. Asking questions and wanting to learn to change ignorance into knowledge is a good thing. :-)



    --
    Grant. . . .

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  • From Knute Johnson@21:1/5 to Marco Moock on Thu Feb 22 08:58:33 2024
    On 2/21/24 13:51, Marco Moock wrote:
    On 21.02.2024 um 11:01 Uhr Knute Johnson wrote:

    Pardon my ignorance but what is SRS?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme


    That's really interesting but I'm not sure I understand it. It does
    bring up another couple of questions which I will put in another post.

    Thanks,

    --

    Knute Johnson

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