Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No
fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a >single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various >software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed.
Rick C.
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No
fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144
development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one
myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
I don't recall seeing anything like that. There was a small board by one of the well known hobbyist companies, but it was really just a pin out adapter board, not even having decoupling caps.
I don't think anything like this ever materialized, because there really is no market. Someone selling this might sell a dozen up to maybe 100.
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed.
On 7/20/23 23:29, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No
fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144
development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one
myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
I don't recall seeing anything like that. There was a small board by one of the well known hobbyist companies, but it was really just a pin out adapter board, not even having decoupling caps.Yeah, I've seen that one, Schmartboard. Not particularly useful.
I don't think anything like this ever materialized, because there really is no market. Someone selling this might sell a dozen up to maybe 100.I'm not talking about a commercial product, I'm talking about someone
having done a design and released it, as is common in the rest of the world.
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed.There's at least one non-vendor toolchain for the GA144. Spotting
that is what (re)sparked my interest.
I'm thinking about designing a board, but given the attitude here,
I'm doubt I'll bother mentioning it here.
I don't recall seeing anything like that. There was a small board by one of the well known hobbyist companies, but it was really just a pin out adapter board, not even having decoupling caps.Yeah, I've seen that one, Schmartboard. Not particularly useful.
I don't think anything like this ever materialized, because there really is no market. Someone selling this might sell a dozen up to maybe 100.I'm not talking about a commercial product, I'm talking about someone
having done a design and released it, as is common in the rest of the world.
I know what you are talking about. I'm trying to explain there is no commercial support and the hobbyist market it vanishingly small.
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed.There's at least one non-vendor toolchain for the GA144. Spotting
that is what (re)sparked my interest.
Why don't you develop an SBC for the GA144? Then you can share with the rest of us. Well, if you can find anyone interested.
What are you interested in doing with the part? As Albert has said, the chip and tools are largely a disappointment in many ways. I don't know of any commercial designs using the GA144, nor even any projects that actually made effective use of themany processors.
I looked at using for an audio spectrum analyzer once. But the comms were a huge limitation. People think the comms are a special feature of the GA144, but they are actually a major limitation.
I find the idea of the GA144 irresistible, but the limited memory makes it impractical.
What makes a lot more sense to me is to do one on an FPGA.
The J1 comes in at 160 luts. Half that if you skip the barrel shifter.
To do 144 of them would take up 21K luts, even if you double that for networking, a very reasonable amount. Probably cheaper than the green arrays chip as well. Although I am sure that their prices are negotiable.time control, it makes life much simpler to have one cpu for each motor. No need for interrupts.and all of the complexity of responding quickly.
For my master's thesis I was very interested in building a green array of J1 cpus, but since no one seems interested, I am currently planning on targeting 8 J1's each running cordic, kind of a competitor to the Parallax Propeller. I know that for real
Of course the real question is what do you plan to build? An obvious application for large arrays of cpus is image processing, but at first glance, that appears to be a very heavily occupied market. Very hard to get a toe hold.
I expect to do a talk tomorrow at the SVFIG meeting on "A Review of Forth Processors".
On 7/21/23 13:37, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
I don't recall seeing anything like that. There was a small board by one of the well known hobbyist companies, but it was really just a pin out adapter board, not even having decoupling caps.Yeah, I've seen that one, Schmartboard. Not particularly useful.
I don't think anything like this ever materialized, because there really is no market. Someone selling this might sell a dozen up to maybe 100.I'm not talking about a commercial product, I'm talking about someone
having done a design and released it, as is common in the rest of the world.
I know what you are talking about. I'm trying to explain there is no commercial support and the hobbyist market it vanishingly small.Then you most certainly *don't* know what I'm talking about. I will
explain again.
I'm not the least bit interested in commercial support. I'm not
interested in the hobbyist market, or any other kind of market, for this chip or any board that it might get soldered to. I want to hack on this rather neat little chip for my own enjoyment, and to do that, I need it
on a board.
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed.There's at least one non-vendor toolchain for the GA144. Spotting
that is what (re)sparked my interest.
Why don't you develop an SBC for the GA144? Then you can share with the rest of us. Well, if you can find anyone interested.I'm thinking about designing a board, but given the attitude here,
I'm doubt I'll bother mentioning it here.
many processors.What are you interested in doing with the part? As Albert has said, the chip and tools are largely a disappointment in many ways. I don't know of any commercial designs using the GA144, nor even any projects that actually made effective use of the
Hacking on it. Learning it and having some fun with it. I am a tech
guy, I have been for decades. I'm a commercial electronic designer, but
I also do a lot of things for my own enjoyment and education.
I looked at using for an audio spectrum analyzer once. But the comms were a huge limitation. People think the comms are a special feature of the GA144, but they are actually a major limitation.I understand that you hate this chip.
None of this even comes close
to answering my initial query.
If I'd known my post would've been a
trigger for a deluge of GA144-hater vitriol I'd have kept my damn mouth
shut and designed a board.
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 3:02:07 PM UTC-4, Christopher Lozinski wrote: <SNIP>
I expect to do a talk tomorrow at the SVFIG meeting on "A Review ofForth Processors".
I would suggest you start with a definition of "forth processor". I
claim that none exist. Everyone seems to have their own opinion of what
a "forth" processor is.
Rick C.--
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No
fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one
myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
--
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
I know what you are talking about. I'm trying to explain there is no commercial support and the hobbyist market it vanishingly small.Then you most certainly *don't* know what I'm talking about. I will
explain again.
I'm not the least bit interested in commercial support. I'm not
interested in the hobbyist market, or any other kind of market, for this
chip or any board that it might get soldered to. I want to hack on this
rather neat little chip for my own enjoyment, and to do that, I need it
on a board.
What makes you think I don't understand this? I'm simply explaining to you that you are very, very unlikely to find such a board.
If you want to design your own and share it with others, you are unlikely to find anyone who is interested, other than possibly a few people here.
These days, pretty much everyone who might be interested, has seen the chip, learned enough about it to know there's no point. You will be traveling this road alone, pretty much from scratch.
I'm thinking about designing a board, but given the attitude here,
I'm doubt I'll bother mentioning it here.
So, you don't even want to share what you develop? Ok, that's not at all unusual.
It's not at all a matter of "hate". I've looked at the chip seriously. I've written code for it and hand assembled it counting execution time in a spreadsheet. I had become very familiar with it and now see past the "glitz" of its uniqueness and seehow limited it really is.
None of this even comes close
to answering my initial query.
Actually, everything discussed was directly addressing your initial post where you ask about resources, including designing your own. I think I mentioned the support software, which you did not seem to have asked about.
If I'd known my post would've been a
trigger for a deluge of GA144-hater vitriol I'd have kept my damn mouth
shut and designed a board.
I'm sorry my replies offend you. This is not "hating". I think everything I've posted has simply been relating facts. You can disagree with opinion, but not so much with facts.
I recall a poster here who was talking about some real pie-in-the-sky ideas. I don't recall the details, but he wanted to design 32 bit, multiprocessor chips. When I tried to explain to him how his ideas were not realistic, he accused me of "hating"or something similar.
I wasn't hating, I was just explaining how he would be unlikely to achieve any of his goals, because of their lofty nature. He even claimed he could not have a discussion because of "all the hate". He was messing with his own head. No one was "hating" on him, and he was at all times free to ignore any posts he didn't like.
On Friday, 21 July 2023 at 04:05:11 UTC+1, Dave McGuire wrote:
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No
fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
--Thank you very much for leaving the link to your organisation. https://www.mact.io/about_us
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
This theme GA144 has been discussed for probably 10 years here and in other places now.
It is a shame, that no simple way for playing with these chips exists.
They are very unusual, but the low interest probably demonstrates,
that it is not really worth trying, except if you just want to for fun.
Unfortunately the entry cost at Green Arrays is at least $200 for 10 chips - SMT unsoldered so you have to do all of the work.
To my knowledge, there is not even a proven circuit diagram that you can use to build your own board.
https://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.php
When I was more into Forth documentation,
I asked Greg at Greenarrays, as I was very interested,
if we could do a clean room implementation of a basic GA144 on FPGA - his feedback was extremely negative.
So I gave up and did other things.
I find it very unusual, that Chuck Moore is involved at GA,
but seems not really to be pushing it either.
To me it seems to be self limiting the sales,
as they would run out of chips soon,
and I wonder, if the fab who did these chips 10 to 15 years ago
still exists now and could do more if needed..
If you ask a question here on CLF,
you have to be aware of the negativity that is quite normal here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way. https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
On 7/21/23 20:19, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
I know what you are talking about. I'm trying to explain there is no commercial support and the hobbyist market it vanishingly small.Then you most certainly *don't* know what I'm talking about. I will
explain again.
I'm not the least bit interested in commercial support. I'm not
interested in the hobbyist market, or any other kind of market, for this >> chip or any board that it might get soldered to. I want to hack on this >> rather neat little chip for my own enjoyment, and to do that, I need it >> on a board.
What makes you think I don't understand this? I'm simply explaining to you that you are very, very unlikely to find such a board.Ok, perhaps I misunderstood you. Usually when people talk about
"markets" they're talking about selling things to other people, or other people adopting things.
I don't care about that. This is for ME and me
alone, to satisfy a personal interest. I am a commercial embedded
systems designer; I design other things about which I'm interested in
sales and adoption. Not this.
If you want to design your own and share it with others, you are unlikely to find anyone who is interested, other than possibly a few people here.Apparently you think I should care about that. I don't.
These days, pretty much everyone who might be interested, has seen the chip, learned enough about it to know there's no point. You will be traveling this road alone, pretty much from scratch.Apparently you think I should care about that too. I don't.
You've turned "No, I haven't seen such a thing" to a whole shitload
of "Oh no, kid, you don't want to do that, oh no, nobody else will want
it, oh no, that chip sucks, oh no, there's no support" blah blah blah.
I have a GA144 chip that I got as a sample when they first shipped;
it has been sitting in my lab in its box since then. I've always been intrigued by the design, but have never had an opportunity to do
anything with it. Though Chuck Moore is a bit "out there" I respect the
man and I'm interested to see what he's designed.
I'm getting older, I'm starting to notice it, I'm hot off the high of
having gotten a big(ish) Transputer-based cluster up and running at a museum, and that reminded me of that GA144 sitting in a drawer. So I
said to myself, "Self, it's time do something with that chip, but GA's
dev boards are overpriced and overcomplicated."
I don't think I should have to explain all of this when the query was
a simple "Hey, has anyone laid out a board?"
I'm thinking about designing a board, but given the attitude here,
I'm doubt I'll bother mentioning it here.
So, you don't even want to share what you develop? Ok, that's not at all unusual.I think you missed my point.
how limited it really is.It's not at all a matter of "hate". I've looked at the chip seriously. I've written code for it and hand assembled it counting execution time in a spreadsheet. I had become very familiar with it and now see past the "glitz" of its uniqueness and see
I understand that. I can read datasheets and user manuals as well as
the next guy. I usually design with ARM chips and I write firmware in C
and assembler. I know this will be very different, and that's part of
why I'm interested in it.
None of this even comes close
to answering my initial query.
Actually, everything discussed was directly addressing your initial post where you ask about resources, including designing your own. I think I mentioned the support software, which you did not seem to have asked about.I didn't ask about software because I had already found what I
thought I'd need. I certainly didn't ask for a critique of the chip.
If I'd known my post would've been a
trigger for a deluge of GA144-hater vitriol I'd have kept my damn mouth >> shut and designed a board.
I'm sorry my replies offend you. This is not "hating". I think everything I've posted has simply been relating facts. You can disagree with opinion, but not so much with facts.I didn't ask for those facts. I can read documentation just fine. I appreciate your opinion and your experience with these chips, but that doesn't quell my curiosity about them.
or something similar.I recall a poster here who was talking about some real pie-in-the-sky ideas. I don't recall the details, but he wanted to design 32 bit, multiprocessor chips. When I tried to explain to him how his ideas were not realistic, he accused me of "hating"
So this happens to you a lot.
on him, and he was at all times free to ignore any posts he didn't like.I wasn't hating, I was just explaining how he would be unlikely to achieve any of his goals, because of their lofty nature. He even claimed he could not have a discussion because of "all the hate". He was messing with his own head. No one was "hating"
I suppose it's good to see Usenet hasn't really changed.
I have the same motivation, to warn people (usually kids) away from
bad ideas with "there be dragons here" kind of statements. I'm a
graybeard too.
Several years ago, a teenager popped up on a mailing list talking
about chasing an IBM z890 mainframe that was being auctioned off on govdeals. I have one of those machines; it weighs just over a ton and
is much larger than it tends to look in pictures. The kid was very
excited about it, and I tried to warn him away from it, explaining that
if a PDP-11 falls on you, you'll end up in the hospital, but if a z890
falls on you, you're pretty much done. I move big iron all the time and
I know how dangerous something like this can be; I was concerned for his safety.
Well, the kid ignored my advice and he got the z890. It was quite a
saga, involving his grandfather excavating land around his basement door
to get it into his house, etc, and he eventually got it up and running,
and he didn't get killed in the process. This caught the attention of
IBM, who immediately hired him and gave him a fantastic job working on
the development of cutting-edge hardware. He's basically set for life now.
If he'd taken my advice, which was motivated purely from the
standpoint of concern for his safety because I know that machine well,
he would've missed out on that great opportunity which changed his life. Thankfully, he has forgiven me.
Us graybeards need to share our experience, sure. That's an
important part of being a member of a society. But there are times when
we need to let the wide-eyed kids chase crazy dreams. Sometimes they
will surprise us.
Yes, it certainly is vague, and unknowable. If the creator doesn't say,
how do you know what inspired the "instruction" set? What does
"related" mean? Is the X86 line a Forth processor, as the instruction
set includes many instructions corresponding to Forth "instructions"
(which I assume means "primitives"), so "related to".
Sounds like you don't really care about defining the term. So I guess
you don't actually use it?
Rick C.
In article <6c69c287-05c7-4a09...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 3:02:07 PM UTC-4, Christopher Lozinski wrote: <SNIP>
I expect to do a talk tomorrow at the SVFIG meeting on "A Review of >Forth Processors".
I would suggest you start with a definition of "forth processor". II'm content with the definition:
claim that none exist. Everyone seems to have their own opinion of what
a "forth" processor is.
A Forth processor is a processor with an instruction set inspired by
or related to Forth instructions.
This is vague and what one considers a Forth processor, someone else doesnot. So be it.
On Friday, 21 July 2023 at 04:05:11 UTC+1, Dave McGuire wrote:
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
--Thank you very much for leaving the link to your organisation. https://www.mact.io/about_us
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
This theme GA144 has been discussed for probably 10 years here and in other places now.
It is a shame, that no simple way for playing with these chips exists.
They are very unusual, but the low interest probably demonstrates,
that it is not really worth trying, except if you just want to for fun.
Unfortunately the entry cost at Green Arrays is at least $200 for 10 chips - SMT unsoldered so you have to do all of the work.
To my knowledge, there is not even a proven circuit diagram that you can use to build your own board.
https://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.php
When I was more into Forth documentation,
I asked Greg at Greenarrays, as I was very interested,
if we could do a clean room implementation of a basic GA144 on FPGA - his feedback was extremely negative.
So I gave up and did other things.
I find it very unusual, that Chuck Moore is involved at GA,
but seems not really to be pushing it either.
To me it seems to be self limiting the sales,
as they would run out of chips soon,
and I wonder, if the fab who did these chips 10 to 15 years ago
still exists now and could do more if needed..
If you ask a question here on CLF,
you have to be aware of the negativity that is quite normal here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way. https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:23:07 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:and learned what I really needed to know.
On Friday, 21 July 2023 at 04:05:11 UTC+1, Dave McGuire wrote:
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
--Thank you very much for leaving the link to your organisation. https://www.mact.io/about_us
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
This theme GA144 has been discussed for probably 10 years here and in other places now.
It is a shame, that no simple way for playing with these chips exists. They are very unusual, but the low interest probably demonstrates,
that it is not really worth trying, except if you just want to for fun.
Unfortunately the entry cost at Green Arrays is at least $200 for 10 chips - SMT unsoldered so you have to do all of the work.They did one thing right for the hobbyist, the package is a QFN (no lead), with just one row of pins. This pin count range is often a smaller package with a two row arrangement, which is much harder to lay out.
To my knowledge, there is not even a proven circuit diagram that you can use to build your own board.
https://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.php
When I was more into Forth documentation,I had a similar conversation. I was told they could not stop me from implementing the instruction set, but they would not look kindly on the use of their tools to write the code for it. That's when I started working with paper and pencil (figuratively)
I asked Greg at Greenarrays, as I was very interested,
if we could do a clean room implementation of a basic GA144 on FPGA - his feedback was extremely negative.
So I gave up and did other things.
I asked about the memory interface, as I wanted to make it work with a fast DRAM (100-133 MHz). This would have required three internal nodes (minimum) and the use of the comms channels, of course. To run at full speed the DRAMs have to be timedcarefully, so I needed timing data on the comms. They would not share that with me, claiming I could use it to reverse engineer the design. Really? You have a chip, no one is buying, but you are worried about people reverse engineering it?
I did some more work with paper and pencil to prove this simply could not work at speed and gave up. The memory interface is one of the lesser discussed failures. To make up for the limited on chip memory, they added the external memory interface. Butthey didn't do enough work to assure it would be compatible with DRAM (without slowing it to half speed), meanwhile SRAM continued to get more and more expensive, and power hungry, and is now very hard to find.
I find it very unusual, that Chuck Moore is involved at GA,Chuck Moore was never active in promoting the GA144 and is now retired. The last I heard, he was working on using the comms for general purpose data transfer, rather than having to code each design from scratch. I never heard that it got anywhere.
but seems not really to be pushing it either.
To me it seems to be self limiting the sales,If they were selling any, maybe.
as they would run out of chips soon,
and I wonder, if the fab who did these chips 10 to 15 years agoIt was built at a fab that specializes in old processes. I expect the process is still available.
still exists now and could do more if needed..
If you ask a question here on CLF,If, by negativity, you mean relating facts that may be "inconvenient", then yes, that happens a lot here.
you have to be aware of the negativity that is quite normal here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned several people from his group.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way. https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
--
Rick C.
--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Saturday, 22 July 2023 at 20:01:32 UTC+1, Lorem Ipsum wrote:figuratively) and learned what I really needed to know.
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:23:07 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
On Friday, 21 July 2023 at 04:05:11 UTC+1, Dave McGuire wrote:
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
--Thank you very much for leaving the link to your organisation. https://www.mact.io/about_us
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
This theme GA144 has been discussed for probably 10 years here and in other places now.
It is a shame, that no simple way for playing with these chips exists. They are very unusual, but the low interest probably demonstrates,
that it is not really worth trying, except if you just want to for fun.
Unfortunately the entry cost at Green Arrays is at least $200 for 10 chips - SMT unsoldered so you have to do all of the work.They did one thing right for the hobbyist, the package is a QFN (no lead), with just one row of pins. This pin count range is often a smaller package with a two row arrangement, which is much harder to lay out.
To my knowledge, there is not even a proven circuit diagram that you can use to build your own board.
https://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.php
When I was more into Forth documentation,I had a similar conversation. I was told they could not stop me from implementing the instruction set, but they would not look kindly on the use of their tools to write the code for it. That's when I started working with paper and pencil (
I asked Greg at Greenarrays, as I was very interested,
if we could do a clean room implementation of a basic GA144 on FPGA - his feedback was extremely negative.
So I gave up and did other things.
carefully, so I needed timing data on the comms. They would not share that with me, claiming I could use it to reverse engineer the design. Really? You have a chip, no one is buying, but you are worried about people reverse engineering it?I asked about the memory interface, as I wanted to make it work with a fast DRAM (100-133 MHz). This would have required three internal nodes (minimum) and the use of the comms channels, of course. To run at full speed the DRAMs have to be timed
But they didn't do enough work to assure it would be compatible with DRAM (without slowing it to half speed), meanwhile SRAM continued to get more and more expensive, and power hungry, and is now very hard to find.I did some more work with paper and pencil to prove this simply could not work at speed and gave up. The memory interface is one of the lesser discussed failures. To make up for the limited on chip memory, they added the external memory interface.
I find it very unusual, that Chuck Moore is involved at GA,Chuck Moore was never active in promoting the GA144 and is now retired. The last I heard, he was working on using the comms for general purpose data transfer, rather than having to code each design from scratch. I never heard that it got anywhere.
but seems not really to be pushing it either.
To me it seems to be self limiting the sales,If they were selling any, maybe.
as they would run out of chips soon,
and I wonder, if the fab who did these chips 10 to 15 years agoIt was built at a fab that specializes in old processes. I expect the process is still available.
still exists now and could do more if needed..
If you ask a question here on CLF,If, by negativity, you mean relating facts that may be "inconvenient", then yes, that happens a lot here.
you have to be aware of the negativity that is quite normal here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned several people from his group.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way. https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
--
Rick C.
--- Get 1,000 miles of free SuperchargingForth2020 I think is the one you mean, it is to my knowledge the restricted Peter Fucking group - not the one I mentioned.
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
I have never been there so I do not know them and actually I do not want to know.
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 4:04:49 PM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:seems to have ended group support. I believe I started a similar group at groups.io, but it gets very little activity.
Forth2020 I think is the one you mean, it is to my knowledge the restricted Peter Fucking group - not the one I mentioned.
I have never been there so I do not know them and actually I do not want to know.
One of the few things we seem to agree on.
I believe the 2020 group is the one that has, in the name of maintaining Win32Forth, rewritten it to suit his purposes. Win32Forth is a useful tool, but has lost all support. It used to have a Yahoo group, with lots of archived info, but Verizon
What makes you think I don't understand this? I'm simply explaining to you that you are very, very unlikely to find such a board.Ok, perhaps I misunderstood you. Usually when people talk about
"markets" they're talking about selling things to other people, or other
people adopting things.
Yes, exactly. If you want to buy something, someone has to be selling it. That's not very likely when there is no market for such a thing.
perfunctory elements.I don't care about that. This is for ME and me
alone, to satisfy a personal interest. I am a commercial embedded
systems designer; I design other things about which I'm interested in
sales and adoption. Not this.
I get that. There is nothing unclear about what you are saying. But... if you design a board, it still needs a ton of software to support it. If you make the board available to others, they might share the drudgery of creating some of the
These days, pretty much everyone who might be interested, has seen the chip, learned enough about it to know there's no point. You will be traveling this road alone, pretty much from scratch.Apparently you think I should care about that too. I don't.
You do a lot of reading and replying about things you don't care about.
You've turned "No, I haven't seen such a thing" to a whole shitload
of "Oh no, kid, you don't want to do that, oh no, nobody else will want
it, oh no, that chip sucks, oh no, there's no support" blah blah blah.
You are reading words I never wrote. That's a bad habit. It makes communication difficult.
of using the GA144 without building anything. That's why I used a spread sheet to analyze code. I learned a lot more, in a shorter time, than building hardware and getting up to speed on all the "unique" software required to make it work.I have a GA144 chip that I got as a sample when they first shipped;
it has been sitting in my lab in its box since then. I've always been
intrigued by the design, but have never had an opportunity to do
anything with it. Though Chuck Moore is a bit "out there" I respect the
man and I'm interested to see what he's designed.
I know you don't want to hear this, but you can learn a lot by reading all the info, then writing a program using the F18A assembly language. Make it a program you might actually want to use, something practical. This will teach you about the "issues"
I'm getting older, I'm starting to notice it, I'm hot off the high of
having gotten a big(ish) Transputer-based cluster up and running at a
museum, and that reminded me of that GA144 sitting in a drawer. So I
said to myself, "Self, it's time do something with that chip, but GA's
dev boards are overpriced and overcomplicated."
Yeah, you will find very, very little in common between the Transputer and the GA144, very little.
like, "Hey, has anyone laid out a board?" Perhaps you should reread it.I don't think I should have to explain all of this when the query was
a simple "Hey, has anyone laid out a board?"
Why do you feel a need to explain yourself? I've offered advice, directly related to your original post and your subsequent posts. You mischaracterize your original post, which was actually more of a wide open question. It literally asked nothing
I think you missed my point.I'm thinking about designing a board, but given the attitude here,
I'm doubt I'll bother mentioning it here.
So, you don't even want to share what you develop? Ok, that's not at all unusual.
Which you have not clarified.
how limited it really is.It's not at all a matter of "hate". I've looked at the chip seriously. I've written code for it and hand assembled it counting execution time in a spreadsheet. I had become very familiar with it and now see past the "glitz" of its uniqueness and see
I understand that. I can read datasheets and user manuals as well as
the next guy. I usually design with ARM chips and I write firmware in C
and assembler. I know this will be very different, and that's part of
why I'm interested in it.
"Different" is not the issue. Lots of things are "different". The GA144 is not very good.
I didn't ask about software because I had already found what I
thought I'd need. I certainly didn't ask for a critique of the chip.
And yet you continue to discuss it.
Ok, so where is the problem? You talk like I'm being rude by talking about the GA144 when you didn't ask, and then you say you appreciate my opinion. Which is it?
or something similar.I recall a poster here who was talking about some real pie-in-the-sky ideas. I don't recall the details, but he wanted to design 32 bit, multiprocessor chips. When I tried to explain to him how his ideas were not realistic, he accused me of "hating"
So this happens to you a lot.
Only with people who don't know what they want. Like you. You continue to complain about my posts, yet, you reply to them. Who is the one with the problem?
on him, and he was at all times free to ignore any posts he didn't like.I wasn't hating, I was just explaining how he would be unlikely to achieve any of his goals, because of their lofty nature. He even claimed he could not have a discussion because of "all the hate". He was messing with his own head. No one was "hating"
physical, rather than spending time working on the computer to learn.I suppose it's good to see Usenet hasn't really changed.
I have the same motivation, to warn people (usually kids) away from
bad ideas with "there be dragons here" kind of statements. I'm a
graybeard too.
Just to be clear, I'm not warning anyone away from the GA144. I'm simply pointing out that there are ways to get a handle on the device without building or buying hardware. It's usually the younger ones who want to get their hands on something
On 7/22/23 15:01, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned several people from his group.Interesting! Peter Forth (whatever his real name may be) has never
been anything other than nice and friendly to me, where YOU have never
been anything other than a dick.
Every newsgroup has their armchair expert, wannabe authority troll.
I'm glad I found this one's early before making any friends here.
*PLONK*
On 7/22/23 14:43, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
What makes you think I don't understand this? I'm simply explaining to you that you are very, very unlikely to find such a board.Ok, perhaps I misunderstood you. Usually when people talk about
"markets" they're talking about selling things to other people, or other >> people adopting things.
Yes, exactly. If you want to buy something, someone has to be selling it. That's not very likely when there is no market for such a thing.Again you've missed my point. I don't want to buy something. I was
never looking to buy something.
elements.I don't care about that. This is for ME and me
alone, to satisfy a personal interest. I am a commercial embedded
systems designer; I design other things about which I'm interested in
sales and adoption. Not this.
I get that. There is nothing unclear about what you are saying. But... if you design a board, it still needs a ton of software to support it. If you make the board available to others, they might share the drudgery of creating some of the perfunctory
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here
because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient for my needs.
These days, pretty much everyone who might be interested, has seen the chip, learned enough about it to know there's no point. You will be traveling this road alone, pretty much from scratch.Apparently you think I should care about that too. I don't.
You do a lot of reading and replying about things you don't care about.Wrong.
You've turned "No, I haven't seen such a thing" to a whole shitload
of "Oh no, kid, you don't want to do that, oh no, nobody else will want >> it, oh no, that chip sucks, oh no, there's no support" blah blah blah.
You are reading words I never wrote. That's a bad habit. It makes communication difficult.You wrote every word. No, not verbatim, but you said, in essence all
of it.
I'm not going to go pull the quotes out of your previous posts;
you can do that yourself if you really don't remember.
of using the GA144 without building anything. That's why I used a spread sheet to analyze code. I learned a lot more, in a shorter time, than building hardware and getting up to speed on all the "unique" software required to make it work.I have a GA144 chip that I got as a sample when they first shipped;
it has been sitting in my lab in its box since then. I've always been
intrigued by the design, but have never had an opportunity to do
anything with it. Though Chuck Moore is a bit "out there" I respect the >> man and I'm interested to see what he's designed.
I know you don't want to hear this, but you can learn a lot by reading all the info, then writing a program using the F18A assembly language. Make it a program you might actually want to use, something practical. This will teach you about the "issues"
I've read that. What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD. What
language am I speaking here?
My goal is not to "get up to speed". This is not a commercial
endeavor. It is not about efficiency. I work in this field, but my
interest in this chip is not commercial.
I realize that you're not saying what you said above because you
actually believe it. You're a net.troll, and you say these things to
get a rise out of people. Unfortunately I often cannot resist the bait.
I'm getting older, I'm starting to notice it, I'm hot off the high of
having gotten a big(ish) Transputer-based cluster up and running at a
museum, and that reminded me of that GA144 sitting in a drawer. So I
said to myself, "Self, it's time do something with that chip, but GA's
dev boards are overpriced and overcomplicated."
Yeah, you will find very, very little in common between the Transputer and the GA144, very little.I typed and deleted a few responses here. But the most appropriate
seems to be:
"NO SHIT, SHERLOCK."
like, "Hey, has anyone laid out a board?" Perhaps you should reread it.I don't think I should have to explain all of this when the query was
a simple "Hey, has anyone laid out a board?"
Why do you feel a need to explain yourself? I've offered advice, directly related to your original post and your subsequent posts. You mischaracterize your original post, which was actually more of a wide open question. It literally asked nothing
I'll refer you to my original post. That's exactly what I wrote.
Again not verbatim, but that was my request.
I think you missed my point.I'm thinking about designing a board, but given the attitude here,
I'm doubt I'll bother mentioning it here.
So, you don't even want to share what you develop? Ok, that's not at all unusual.
Which you have not clarified.Wow.
see how limited it really is.It's not at all a matter of "hate". I've looked at the chip seriously. I've written code for it and hand assembled it counting execution time in a spreadsheet. I had become very familiar with it and now see past the "glitz" of its uniqueness and
I understand that. I can read datasheets and user manuals as well as
the next guy. I usually design with ARM chips and I write firmware in C >> and assembler. I know this will be very different, and that's part of
why I'm interested in it.
"Different" is not the issue. Lots of things are "different". The GA144 is not very good.In your opinion. I stopped caring about your opinion when I realized
that you're just a troll, not any sort of knowledgeable person whose
advice I should value.
I'll point out yet again, that I did not ask you (or anyone else) if
they thought the GA144 is any good.
I've been in this business a long
time; I will come to my own conclusions about that.
I didn't ask about software because I had already found what I
thought I'd need. I certainly didn't ask for a critique of the chip.
And yet you continue to discuss it.Because you're a highly skilled troll and I lack self control.
Ok, so where is the problem? You talk like I'm being rude by talking about the GA144 when you didn't ask, and then you say you appreciate my opinion. Which is it?I was being generous. You seem to need it.
or something similar.I recall a poster here who was talking about some real pie-in-the-sky ideas. I don't recall the details, but he wanted to design 32 bit, multiprocessor chips. When I tried to explain to him how his ideas were not realistic, he accused me of "hating"
So this happens to you a lot.
Only with people who don't know what they want. Like you. You continue to complain about my posts, yet, you reply to them. Who is the one with the problem?I know exactly what I want.
I clearly stated it in my first post in
this thread. I want a GA144 on a simple board with no fluff so I can
explore it. I've explained this multiple times.
hating" on him, and he was at all times free to ignore any posts he didn't like.I wasn't hating, I was just explaining how he would be unlikely to achieve any of his goals, because of their lofty nature. He even claimed he could not have a discussion because of "all the hate". He was messing with his own head. No one was "
physical, rather than spending time working on the computer to learn.I suppose it's good to see Usenet hasn't really changed.
I have the same motivation, to warn people (usually kids) away from
bad ideas with "there be dragons here" kind of statements. I'm a
graybeard too.
Just to be clear, I'm not warning anyone away from the GA144. I'm simply pointing out that there are ways to get a handle on the device without building or buying hardware. It's usually the younger ones who want to get their hands on something
Yes but that's like an inflatable doll. It will get the job done,
but it's usually not what you really want. I want HARDWARE. I've
already read the documentation.
Why am I explaining this yet again? Of course: I Have Been Trolled.
I came to comp.sys.forth with my guard down thinking that there would
be civilized people here. I regret that I was mistaken.
On 23/07/2023 10:37 am, Lorem Ipsum wrote:seems to have ended group support. I believe I started a similar group at groups.io, but it gets very little activity.
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 4:04:49 PM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
Forth2020 I think is the one you mean, it is to my knowledge the restricted Peter Fucking group - not the one I mentioned.
I have never been there so I do not know them and actually I do not want to know.
One of the few things we seem to agree on.
I believe the 2020 group is the one that has, in the name of maintaining Win32Forth, rewritten it to suit his purposes. Win32Forth is a useful tool, but has lost all support. It used to have a Yahoo group, with lots of archived info, but Verizon
IIRC the forth promoted was based on SP-Forth and closed-source. Can't seem to find any current links so may no longer be promoted. Main attraction of the
group today appears to be their Zoom meetings and presentations often by well-
known Forth personalities.
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:09:13 PM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:seems to have ended group support. I believe I started a similar group at groups.io, but it gets very little activity.
On 23/07/2023 10:37 am, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 4:04:49 PM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote: >>>> Forth2020 I think is the one you mean, it is to my knowledge the restricted Peter Fucking group - not the one I mentioned.
I have never been there so I do not know them and actually I do not want to know.
One of the few things we seem to agree on.
I believe the 2020 group is the one that has, in the name of maintaining Win32Forth, rewritten it to suit his purposes. Win32Forth is a useful tool, but has lost all support. It used to have a Yahoo group, with lots of archived info, but Verizon
switched to some other code base. Don't know.IIRC the forth promoted was based on SP-Forth and closed-source. Can't seem >> to find any current links so may no longer be promoted. Main attraction of the
group today appears to be their Zoom meetings and presentations often by well-
known Forth personalities.
I don't recall the group. I just remember it was a self appointed team with Peter Forth. Maybe they started modifying Win32Forth, because it has problems with false positives on anti-virus software. I suppose they got in over their heads and
On 7/22/23 15:01, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned several people from his group.Interesting! Peter Forth (whatever his real name may be) has never
been anything other than nice and friendly to me, where YOU have never
been anything other than a dick.
Every newsgroup has their armchair expert, wannabe authority troll.
I'm glad I found this one's early before making any friends here.
*PLONK*
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here
because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient for
my needs.
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.
On 23/07/2023 12:51 pm, Lorem Ipsum wrote:seems to have ended group support. I believe I started a similar group at groups.io, but it gets very little activity.
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:09:13 PM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:
On 23/07/2023 10:37 am, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 4:04:49 PM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote: >>>> Forth2020 I think is the one you mean, it is to my knowledge the restricted Peter Fucking group - not the one I mentioned.
I have never been there so I do not know them and actually I do not want to know.
One of the few things we seem to agree on.
I believe the 2020 group is the one that has, in the name of maintaining Win32Forth, rewritten it to suit his purposes. Win32Forth is a useful tool, but has lost all support. It used to have a Yahoo group, with lots of archived info, but Verizon
to some other code base. Don't know.IIRC the forth promoted was based on SP-Forth and closed-source. Can't seem
to find any current links so may no longer be promoted. Main attraction of the
group today appears to be their Zoom meetings and presentations often by well-
known Forth personalities.
I don't recall the group. I just remember it was a self appointed team with Peter Forth. Maybe they started modifying Win32Forth, because it has problems with false positives on anti-virus software. I suppose they got in over their heads and switched
Found it's hosted below along with the source. I recall the website mentioning
Win32Forth anti-virus issues and avoiding it for that reason.
https://github.com/PeterForth
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that hereThose?
because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient for
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
--
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
On Sunday, 23 July 2023 at 06:10:24 UTC+1, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient forThose?
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
--Just to add this link I found
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
http://forth.org/svfig/kk/11-2015.html
On Sunday, 23 July 2023 at 08:10:10 UTC+1, Jurgen Pitaske wrote:
On Sunday, 23 July 2023 at 06:10:24 UTC+1, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient forThose?
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
And I had never seen this from 2017 - GA144 plus display http://www.forth.org/svfig/kk/06-2017-Schuldt.pdf--Just to add this link I found
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
http://forth.org/svfig/kk/11-2015.html
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:23:07 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote: <SNIP>
I asked about the memory interface, as I wanted to make it work with a
fast DRAM (100-133 MHz). This would have required three internal nodes >(minimum) and the use of the comms channels, of course. To run at full
speed the DRAMs have to be timed carefully, so I needed timing data on
the comms. They would not share that with me, claiming I could use it
to reverse engineer the design. Really? You have a chip, no one is
buying, but you are worried about people reverse engineering it?
It was built at a fab that specializes in old processes. I expect the >process is still available.It was old at the time. 180nm
If, by negativity, you mean relating facts that may be "inconvenient",
then yes, that happens a lot here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than
others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned
several people from his group.
Rick C.
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No
fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 >development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one >myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
In article <f27c8d93-b5cc-4840...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:23:07 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote: <SNIP>
I asked about the memory interface, as I wanted to make it work with a >fast DRAM (100-133 MHz). This would have required three internal nodes >(minimum) and the use of the comms channels, of course. To run at full >speed the DRAMs have to be timed carefully, so I needed timing data onThis is worse than I thought.
the comms. They would not share that with me, claiming I could use it
to reverse engineer the design. Really? You have a chip, no one is
buying, but you are worried about people reverse engineering it?
This is reminiscint of ...
In the Dutch hcc a guy has a made
a brilliant composition (4 voice blues) for the time the Forth organ 1]
has 12 pipes, with a d'' .. d''' ranges with des missing.
He took it among him self to compose for this range, and use all
of the notes.
He doesn't allow a YouTube video of it to publish.
How to become unfamous, lesson 1.
1] now it has 24.
It was built at a fab that specializes in old processes. I expect the >process is still available.It was old at the time. 180nm
Nowadays China are reporting break throughs at the 7nm and Taiwan is routinely making 4 or 5 nm.
If, by negativity, you mean relating facts that may be "inconvenient", >then yes, that happens a lot here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than >others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned >several people from his group.Peter Forth is extremely friendly towards the Dutch User group.
I declined an invitation to join because I don't like facebook.
How can he go under a false name? facebook requires a fotocopie
of your passport.
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 6:56:59 AM UTC-4, none albert wrote:many 20 year old chips, are not built on 4 nm fabs.
In article <f27c8d93-b5cc-4840...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 10:23:07 AM UTC-4, Jurgen Pitaske wrote: <SNIP>
I asked about the memory interface, as I wanted to make it work with a >fast DRAM (100-133 MHz). This would have required three internal nodes >(minimum) and the use of the comms channels, of course. To run at full >speed the DRAMs have to be timed carefully, so I needed timing data on >the comms. They would not share that with me, claiming I could use itThis is worse than I thought.
to reverse engineer the design. Really? You have a chip, no one is >buying, but you are worried about people reverse engineering it?
This is reminiscint of ...
In the Dutch hcc a guy has a made
a brilliant composition (4 voice blues) for the time the Forth organ 1] has 12 pipes, with a d'' .. d''' ranges with des missing.
He took it among him self to compose for this range, and use all
of the notes.
He doesn't allow a YouTube video of it to publish.
How to become unfamous, lesson 1.
1] now it has 24.Not sure what you are trying to say. It doesn't matter at all what anyone else is making. There are still many, many fabs making silicon in old processes. When a chip is designed, it is designed for a process. Moving it to another process is work. The
It was built at a fab that specializes in old processes. I expect the >process is still available.It was old at the time. 180nm
Nowadays China are reporting break throughs at the 7nm and Taiwan is routinely making 4 or 5 nm.
I wish I could remember the name of the company who built the GA144. Turns out, the number of wafers they built was in essence, the minimum quantity for the prototype run.reported Peter's fake name and they accepted his name as "real" basically, because he has had it so long.
If, by negativity, you mean relating facts that may be "inconvenient", >then yes, that happens a lot here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
They don't require that specifically. They will treat your name as being verified if there is enough "evidence". I wanted a separate account from my personal one, so I signed up with a pseudonym. Peter ratted me out and Facebook blocked the account. IJust be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than >others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned >several people from his group.Peter Forth is extremely friendly towards the Dutch User group.
I declined an invitation to join because I don't like facebook.
How can he go under a false name? facebook requires a fotocopie
of your passport.
If you think Peter Forth is a real name, try to find some evidence of it, other than on social media and such sites. If I am wrong, please correct me.
This is pretty off topic in this thread. I won't post about Peter further.
--
Rick C.
++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient forThose?
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
--
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
On Friday, 21 July 2023 at 04:05:11 UTC+1, Dave McGuire wrote:Well. It's hard to believe that after all this time, Google groups still doesn't have a reply button for messages on mobile, or line splitting
Is anyone aware of a simple development board for the GA144 chip? No fluff, extra processors, etc like the (expensive) GreenArrays GA144 development boards, just the bare minimum to get the chip going and
write code for it. Ideally an open design, i.e. download Gerber files
and make a board or two. If there are none, I will probably design one myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
Thanks,
-Dave McGuire
--Thank you very much for leaving the link to your organisation. https://www.mact.io/about_us
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
This theme GA144 has been discussed for probably 10 years here and in other places now.
It is a shame, that no simple way for playing with these chips exists.
They are very unusual, but the low interest probably demonstrates,
that it is not really worth trying, except if you just want to for fun.
Unfortunately the entry cost at Green Arrays is at least $200 for 10 chips - SMT unsoldered so you have to do all of the work.
To my knowledge, there is not even a proven circuit diagram that you can use to build your own board.
https://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.php
When I was more into Forth documentation,
I asked Greg at Greenarrays, as I was very interested,
if we could do a clean room implementation of a basic GA144 on FPGA - his feedback was extremely negative.
So I gave up and did other things.
I find it very unusual, that Chuck Moore is involved at GA,
but seems not really to be pushing it either.
To me it seems to be self limiting the sales,
as they would run out of chips soon,
and I wonder, if the fab who did these chips 10 to 15 years ago
still exists now and could do more if needed..
If you ask a question here on CLF,
you have to be aware of the negativity that is quite normal here.
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way. https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
On 7/22/23 15:01, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
I would suggest you ceck with one of the Forth facebook groups.
There you can find probably more help and in a friendy way.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PROGRAMMINGFORTH
Just be careful which group you go with. Some are more friendly than others. A guy who goes by Peter Forth (not his real name) has banned several people from his group.Interesting! Peter Forth (whatever his real name may be) has never
been anything other than nice and friendly to me, where YOU have never
been anything other than a dick.
Every newsgroup has their armchair expert, wannabe authority troll.
I'm glad I found this one's early before making any friends here.
*PLONK*
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, President/Curator
Large Scale Systems Museum
New Kensington, PA
Any Facebook groups good for forth processors?
Anyway, a question. Who runs this group? I would like to suggest to
them a: comp.lang.forth.hardware&processors group moderated, in that
you can ban certain accounts after a while. It would allow a lot of
forth hardware discussion in peace.
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient forThose?
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
--I was going recommend something like that. I just
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
couldn't remember where I saw it
It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated
version and more memory, I could have used it.
Even something like that
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It
would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated version and more memory, I could have used it.
Each processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performance as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's neighbors and while they are passing datato another processor, they can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of it. He didn't
issues had been considered during the design of the chip, something could have been done.Even something like thatIf you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of the poor comms. Maybe, if these
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It
would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
Accessing the CPU memory already takes multiple instruction times. Adding more memory to the processors will slow them down further. The GA144 is such a queer chip.
Rick C.
+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated version and more memory, I could have used it.
Each processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performance as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's neighbors and while they are passing datato another processor, they can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of it. He didn't
issues had been considered during the design of the chip, something could have been done.Even something like thatIf you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of the poor comms. Maybe, if these
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It
would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
Accessing the CPU memory already takes multiple instruction times. Adding more memory to the processors will slow them down further. The GA144 is such a queer chip.
Rick C.
+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:..
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
I did say performance version, which would have all this stuff sorted out.It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated version and more memory, I could have used it.
My design proposal for this a decade to trot decades ago, sorted this all out.
Hardly any stalling, no pressor IO cycle consumption, large memory direct addressing and execution space, and large shared memory and large memory for controlling core, and any core designed so, sizable shared up to 8 core transaction data memories, with three levels of bus, two shared, with minimal footprint, plus mini cache
and DMA design, which can work in any of the shared memories. Designed to distribute tasks and memory usage in a way that easily maximize performance. Plus
a few other things back in the early proposal. Answers most of the questions, but I
would also add a serial pseudo SRAM to parallel bus auto circuit, to decode data and execution as if a normal parallel bus, but at lower speed of course. Once you add the
mini cache and page swap features, and core can access the external memory to dma
In the next instruction or word or up to the whole local memory. All these mini features
are low resistor count versions of less performance compared to traditional, but simple
to use and judicially used to get the programmer out of a jam. I was listening when Chuck
Complained about the normal size of these features, so I designed the proposals, not to
sacrifice much chip real-estate. I'm taking about hundreds of transistors. I can't
remember the seperate estimates, but it's small, but design ex to greatly boost throughout. Plus you could run the chip down to 1ns to 2/10th of a nanosecond, on a better node process.
High performance.
to another processor, they can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of it. He didn'tEach processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performance as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's neighbors and while they are passing data
With the proposed design, it still can operate asynchronously. So, it can operate at 20hz if it wanted to, without complex programming.
issues had been considered during the design of the chip, something could have been done.Even something like thatIf you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of the poor comms. Maybe, if these
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It
would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
I didn't say how much, but it would be considerable. At least as much as in the whole currentto be packed with
chip, up to a full 18 bits. The present chip seemed to do fine with static memory. However
it would be good with the full account of the present cores memory spaces for execution ram rom and data. Going one more step the ability to insert an parallel psram die in package, rather than just use SRAM. Cheap in quantity. This allow the same die
varying amounts of memory and number of memories, depending on the application. A lot cheaper than using a specialist memory incorporating process node or high transit count
SRAM. With this the psram due can be whatever process node sized dram inside for commodity like mass production like pricing advantage available, while the main chip can
remain at 130-180nm.
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:So, you waved your magic wand over the GA144 and solved all the problems? Great! Show us how you did that.
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:..
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
I did say performance version, which would have all this stuff sorted out.It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated version and more memory, I could have used it.
My design proposal for this a decade to trot decades ago, sorted this all out.The only problem is, you've done none of this. But when you do, let us know. I'm sure it will be very interesting.
Hardly any stalling, no pressor IO cycle consumption, large memory direct addressing and execution space, and large shared memory and large memory for
controlling core, and any core designed so, sizable shared up to 8 core transaction data memories, with three levels of bus, two shared, with minimal footprint, plus mini cache
and DMA design, which can work in any of the shared memories. Designed to distribute tasks and memory usage in a way that easily maximize performance. Plus
a few other things back in the early proposal. Answers most of the questions, but I
would also add a serial pseudo SRAM to parallel bus auto circuit, to decode data and execution as if a normal parallel bus, but at lower speed of course. Once you add the
mini cache and page swap features, and core can access the external memory to dma
In the next instruction or word or up to the whole local memory. All these mini features
are low resistor count versions of less performance compared to traditional, but simple
to use and judicially used to get the programmer out of a jam. I was listening when Chuck
Complained about the normal size of these features, so I designed the proposals, not to
sacrifice much chip real-estate. I'm taking about hundreds of transistors. I can't
remember the seperate estimates, but it's small, but design ex to greatly boost throughout. Plus you could run the chip down to 1ns to 2/10th of a nanosecond, on a better node process.
High performance.
data to another processor, they can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of it. He didn'Each processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performance as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's neighbors and while they are passing
With the proposed design, it still can operate asynchronously. So, it can operate at 20hz if it wanted to, without complex programming.Your comment seems to be unrelated to what it follows. What point are you trying to make???
issues had been considered during the design of the chip, something could have been done.Even something like thatIf you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of the poor comms. Maybe, if these
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
die to be packed withI didn't say how much, but it would be considerable. At least as much as in the whole current
chip, up to a full 18 bits. The present chip seemed to do fine with static memory. However
it would be good with the full account of the present cores memory spaces for execution ram rom and data. Going one more step the ability to insert an parallel psram die in package, rather than just use SRAM. Cheap in quantity. This allow the same
varying amounts of memory and number of memories, depending on the application. A lot cheaper than using a specialist memory incorporating process node or high transit countIt's just that there's no point in adding memory until you can do something useful with it. Well you can't like any processor. It's direct addressable direct executable. Same as a microwave controller with on chip memory.
SRAM. With this the psram due can be whatever process node sized dram inside for commodity like mass production like pricing advantage available, while the main chip can
remain at 130-180nm.
I remember you now. You are the guy who blamed everyone else for replying to your posts, making it impossible for you to do any work until you replied in kind. That's a pretty severe distraction disorder. I wish you luck with it.
--
Rick C.
---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:I was going recommend something like that. I just
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that hereThose?
because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient for
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
--
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
couldn't remember where I saw it
It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated
version and more memory, I could have used it.
Each processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performance
as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is
the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's
neighbors and while they are passing data to another processor, they
can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is >hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature
that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of
it. He didn't even try until he had a chip to play with, spent sometime >finding the comms to be a hard problem to solve, then retired.
Even something like that
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It
would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
If you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power >consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and
you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of
the poor comms. Maybe, if these issues had been considered during the
design of the chip, something could have been done.
Accessing the CPU memory already takes multiple instruction times.Agreed.
Adding more memory to the processors will slow them down further. The
GA144 is such a queer chip.
Rick C.Groetjes Albert
In article <cefeb263-b1ed-4961...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:I was going recommend something like that. I just
Once again, the software is available. I didn't ask about that here >> > > because I found it already and have judged it to be sufficient forThose?
my needs.
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga-tools
https://github.com/mschuldt/ga144-sim
What I want to do is BUILD A DAMN BOARD.You have seen that one?
https://hackaday.io/project/163652-ga144-evaluation-board
--
comp.lang.forth - Usenet's best soap opera?
couldn't remember where I saw it
It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated
version and more memory, I could have used it.
Each processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performanceThe GA144 cannot have path that are crossing each other.
as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is >the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's
neighbors and while they are passing data to another processor, they
can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is >hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature
that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of
it. He didn't even try until he had a chip to play with, spent sometime >finding the comms to be a hard problem to solve, then retired.
That is a fatal design flaw.
Even something like that
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It
would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
If you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power >consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and >you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of >the poor comms. Maybe, if these issues had been considered during the >design of the chip, something could have been done.I thought of hanging a 32 bit static memory using the weird timig.
Then you have parallel stack to emulate a 32 bit Forth machine.
It is climbing the Mount Everest, infinitely difficult and
infinitely useless.
Accessing the CPU memory already takes multiple instruction times.Agreed.
Adding more memory to the processors will slow them down further. The >GA144 is such a queer chip.
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:You are paying any of us, or for patents. It's simple enough, give it a go yourself (or at least try to look up the posts I put some of it in 20 years ago).
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:So, you waved your magic wand over the GA144 and solved all the problems? Great! Show us how you did that.
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:..
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
I did say performance version, which would have all this stuff sorted out.It's a shame the processor was never given a performance accelerated version and more memory, I could have used it.
The problem is, at least I figured out the logical architecture before I said anything.My design proposal for this a decade to trot decades ago, sorted this all out.The only problem is, you've done none of this. But when you do, let us know. I'm sure it will be very interesting.
Hardly any stalling, no pressor IO cycle consumption, large memory direct
addressing and execution space, and large shared memory and large memory for
controlling core, and any core designed so, sizable shared up to 8 core transaction data memories, with three levels of bus, two shared, with minimal footprint, plus mini cache
and DMA design, which can work in any of the shared memories. Designed to
distribute tasks and memory usage in a way that easily maximize performance. Plus
a few other things back in the early proposal. Answers most of the questions, but I
would also add a serial pseudo SRAM to parallel bus auto circuit, to decode data and execution as if a normal parallel bus, but at lower speed of course. Once you add the
mini cache and page swap features, and core can access the external memory to dma
In the next instruction or word or up to the whole local memory. All these mini features
are low resistor count versions of less performance compared to traditional, but simple
to use and judicially used to get the programmer out of a jam. I was listening when Chuck
Complained about the normal size of these features, so I designed the proposals, not to
sacrifice much chip real-estate. I'm taking about hundreds of transistors. I can't
remember the seperate estimates, but it's small, but design ex to greatly boost throughout. Plus you could run the chip down to 1ns to 2/10th of a nanosecond, on a better node process.
High performance.
data to another processor, they can't be doing *anything* else. So, each processor that needs data, is hanging up every other processor along the path. This was a feature that Chuck thought was "neat", but he never found a way to make use of it. He didn'Each processor has 700 MIPS! It's hard to use that level of performance as it is. Yes, memory is constrained... severely, but the real issue is the very hard to use comms. Each processor can only talk to it's neighbors and while they are passing
That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.With the proposed design, it still can operate asynchronously. So, it can operate at 20hz if it wanted to, without complex programming.Your comment seems to be unrelated to what it follows. What point are you trying to make???
issues had been considered during the design of the chip, something could have been done.Even something like thatIf you hang static RAM on any version of a GAxxx processor, the power consumption goes through the roof (static RAM is very power hungry) and you still can't get information to the processors fast enough because of the poor comms. Maybe, if these
in the reduced core package with a lot of static memory on one
core (or shared by 4) with auto execution extended address bus. It would have just enough pins to make it a nice little controller.
die to be packed withI didn't say how much, but it would be considerable. At least as much as in the whole current
chip, up to a full 18 bits. The present chip seemed to do fine with static memory. However
it would be good with the full account of the present cores memory spaces for execution ram rom and data. Going one more step the ability to insert an parallel psram die in package, rather than just use SRAM. Cheap in quantity. This allow the same
varying amounts of memory and number of memories, depending on the application. A lot cheaper than using a specialist memory incorporating process node or high transit countIt's just that there's no point in adding memory until you can do something useful with it. Well you can't like any processor. It's direct addressable direct executable. Same as a microwave controller with on chip memory.
SRAM. With this the psram due can be whatever process node sized dram inside for commodity like mass production like pricing advantage available, while the main chip can
remain at 130-180nm.
I remember you now. You are the guy who blamed everyone else for replying to your posts, making it impossible for you to do any work until you replied in kind. That's a pretty severe distraction disorder. I wish you luck with it.No, it's mainly just a few people pestering. You can't run investment or community projects with, pestering trying to deliberately distract people from it with pointless stuff, to shade and colour things.
Well, three interruptions rather than over ten I would have normally have expected for that amount of text. But, you can see a few changes on misc would get rid of most of the concerns. It's just a shame that everything is too expensive to move onto afaster process with lower energy design, for all of us. The costs are nuts now. I really would like to see a latest serial bus user as a standard to communicate between all devices daisy chained, off a chip package with very few pads and supporting USB
Someone described the chip as Moore's toy.
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:22:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
..
Gass lighting again, and doing what you are accusing. You think you are so superior (Big) then you prove you can do it and have an idea?You are paying any of us, or for patents. It's simple enough, give it a go yourself (or at least try to look up the posts I put some of it in 20 years ago).That's what I thought. You talk big, but actually have no idea.
Look up the previous posts, stop toying around.The problem is, at least I figured out the logical architecture before I said anything.Sure, you have it all figured out. Good for you. Too bad you can't explain any of it.
different design isn't an old design. The next sentence is more of it. You are basically saying the proposed solutions to solve the actual problems, as if they are not solving but trying to solve issues it doesn't have. This is like hemetic likeThat you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.Of course not. But you are talking about making the processors an order of magnitude faster, when the current speed can't be tapped. Why not try to solve the problems the chip actually has, before solving problems it doesn't have..
Another strange post. As usual, the person you are posting to doesn't really have the problem,
and the post confuses things. Your first sentence basically says by making the processor more efficient tapping all the speed, when the current speed can't be tapped, as some sort of non dependent problem as if it was a dependent problem. You see a new
Glad you recovered somewhat from post COVID/V, you are writing well. I could have died last year
Again, confusion speech. Here you have been trying to draw attention to yourself for a long time, away from others who are focusing, and are saying your actions are their fault.No, it's mainly just a few people pestering. You can't run investment or community projects with, pestering trying to deliberately distract people from it with pointless stuff, to shade and colour things.If you can't direct your attention to the things you want to get done, no, you will never get anywhere. Focus is 100% your issue, no one else'
Maybe you should focus on your own business rather than focusing on getting into others' businesses? Everybody is tied of the confused speech. A lot of people with a full brain you get onto here, as if you are more. I think we are tied of it. Youproduce like 10x the talk. If you want to be significant, talk more exactly relevant sense, contribute some more useful contribution of design. If I saw somebody acting like that in the world place, in a design or authority position, I would very quickly
People are not even treating Chuck like that here. Somebody who has great contribution to the world, who you are disrespecting by saying the ga144 is just a grab bag of ideas thrown together with no prior experience/testing, like it's just bad etc etcetc.
When you know this is meant to be a lowest denominator, lowest energy, spasmodic switching/performance device. Sure it might lot suit a lot of us because we want performance and straight forwardness. But, it perfectly fits what it was made for,
and may still well have the lowest energy floor per processor of any processor doing light spasmodic processing, in the industry, over a decade latter.
That this is a third generation of this type of device, after a few tested and proven generations at intelasys.people.
Thank you Rick Collins. How are things at Artemis, you were working on a new FPGA Misc design? Why don't you start a thread and talk about that. Sounds very interesting, well it would be to me, I take interest in a number of different things, and
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
You are paying any of us, or for patents. It's simple enough, give it a go yourself (or at least try to look up the posts I put some of it in 20 years ago).That's what I thought. You talk big, but actually have no idea.
The problem is, at least I figured out the logical architecture before I said anything.Sure, you have it all figured out. Good for you. Too bad you can't explain any of it.
That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.Of course not. But you are talking about making the processors an order of magnitude faster, when the current speed can't be tapped. Why not try to solve the problems the chip actually has, before solving problems it doesn't have..
No, it's mainly just a few people pestering. You can't run investment or community projects with, pestering trying to deliberately distract people from it with pointless stuff, to shade and colour things.If you can't direct your attention to the things you want to get done, no, you will never get anywhere. Focus is 100% your issue, no one else'
Rick C.
---+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:15:40 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:22:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
Gass lighting again, and doing what you are accusing. You think you are so superior (Big) then you prove you can do it and have an idea?I've never said I could fix the GA144. In fact, I'm pretty confident it is fully broken and can't be fixed.
The Transputer CPUs are the only other ones I know of, that had anything like the GA144 communication connections. They were essentially serial connections, with a similar
handshake to the GA144. That also did not catch on very much.
I've read your posts, that's why I made the statement
That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.
Ok, if you say so. What I actually said, was that you talk about speeding up the CPUs dramatically, as if that would somehow be a significant inprovement, while ignoring the fact that the current GA144 can't utilize but a small fraction of the CPUspeed for most applications. Instead of responding to that, you go off into the deep woods.
Glad you recovered somewhat from post COVID/V, you are writing well. I could have died last yearThat was true for any of us. The US lost over a million people to COVID. I essentially holed up compared to what I previously did. It was a bad time for everyone.
Again, confusion speech. Here you have been trying to draw attention to yourself for a long time, away from others who are focusing, and are saying your actions are their fault.This is the sort of crap I'm talking about. I make a point and you go off on some tangent about me drawing attention to myself. I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about YOU!
produce like 10x the talk. If you want to be significant, talk more exactly relevant sense, contribute some more useful contribution of design. If I saw somebody acting like that in the world place, in a design or authority position, I would very quicklyMaybe you should focus on your own business rather than focusing on getting into others' businesses? Everybody is tied of the confused speech. A lot of people with a full brain you get onto here, as if you are more. I think we are tied of it. You
WTF are you talking about??? I'm willing to bet you write much more than I do in these posts.
etc etc.People are not even treating Chuck like that here. Somebody who has great contribution to the world, who you are disrespecting by saying the ga144 is just a grab bag of ideas thrown together with no prior experience/testing, like it's just bad etc
So, I'm not allowed to express my opinion about the GA144 unless I think it's the greatest thing ever? The design of the chip speaks for itself. One of the last things Chuck did with the GA144 was to try to write code for a node that could pass trafficin two orthogonal directions at once. We never heard anything to indicate success. If the chip was any good, why is it even Chuck can't design with it?
decade, still no word. No word on any actual application. GA has not even sold enough chips to require a second batch to be built.When you know this is meant to be a lowest denominator, lowest energy, spasmodic switching/performance device. Sure it might lot suit a lot of us because we want performance and straight forwardness. But, it perfectly fits what it was made for,Which is what??? It was literally not designed for any purpose. The GA144 was a bunch of separate ideas that he threw onto one chip, with no intended market or application. There was word that someone wanted to use it for a hearing aid, but after a
..and may still well have the lowest energy floor per processor of any processor doing light spasmodic processing, in the industry, over a decade latter.
That this is a third generation of this type of device, after a few tested and proven generations at intelasys.
people.Thank you Rick Collins. How are things at Artemis, you were working on a new FPGA Misc design? Why don't you start a thread and talk about that. Sounds very interesting, well it would be to me, I take interest in a number of different things, and
I don't do MISC designs for no reason. I am currently working on a new design for a customer, including an FPGA, but no MCU. It's actually a port of an existing design to replace
the obsolete FPGA and other chips. But, being property of a customer, I'm not at liberty to divulge the details.
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:11:25 PM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:15:40 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:22:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
..
Merry go around again. You design these things for a living, you should be able to easily suggest changes to the conceptual architecture to "fix" it, of it had been broken, as it does what it was designed to do, or "improve" it more to our liking.Gass lighting again, and doing what you are accusing. You think you are so superior (Big) then you prove you can do it and have an idea?I've never said I could fix the GA144. In fact, I'm pretty confident it is fully broken and can't be fixed.
..
The Transputer CPUs are the only other ones I know of, that had anything like the GA144 communication connections. They were essentially serial connections, with a similarI had suggested they change that to a parallel connection. I thought they had announced talked about that.
handshake to the GA144. That also did not catch on very much.So, you don't support butted processor to processor parallel ports, and changing the hand shaking environment? That's what I proposed.
I've read your posts, that's why I made the statementSorry, accidentally deleted saying you should check my previous posts on it, where the truth is, and you acting like you missed it. Merry go around.
I'm more likely to share the more than basic details with GA, than you.
..speed for most applications. Instead of responding to that, you go off into the deep woods.
..That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.
Ok, if you say so. What I actually said, was that you talk about speeding up the CPUs dramatically, as if that would somehow be a significant inprovement, while ignoring the fact that the current GA144 can't utilize but a small fraction of the CPU
Where did I say that speeding up the processor was a general solution, you lost me in those woods? It might help with external memory access and acquisition, but not much of an improvement.
I did talk about redesigning the architecture as a major improvement in performance, then you can afd speed, which the redesign could handle, which is a seperate issue. Maybe you should just open source all your military designs,
you like trying to get others to spill their IP, but what about giving your IP away for free, instead.
Why don't you publish some genuine practical architectural improvements to the state of art? I don't know if I ever have seen you safely suggest an improvement in the last 20 years.
disease, on top of a number of other previously bad things. So, no, I'm one of the ones that would have died, if I hadn't fought everything down. But, I can recognise the symptoms, I see them in Washington all the time. People have to hang on tight.toIt's spike protein, which some V had more of them than some infections, induced a host of problems (around 27 or 37 were being investigated, the last I read) including vascular ischemia in the brain, which I already had after long term tick bornGlad you recovered somewhat from post COVID/V, you are writing well. I could have died last yearThat was true for any of us. The US lost over a million people to COVID. I essentially holed up compared to what I previously did. It was a bad time for everyone.
..produce like 10x the talk. If you want to be significant, talk more exactly relevant sense, contribute some more useful contribution of design. If I saw somebody acting like that in the world place, in a design or authority position, I would very quickly
You normally go on and grand stand against various people being positive, that's the ... I'm addressing. I'm more worried about other people than lurking around doing that sort of thing about what others are doing.Again, confusion speech. Here you have been trying to draw attention to yourself for a long time, away from others who are focusing, and are saying your actions are their fault.This is the sort of crap I'm talking about. I make a point and you go off on some tangent about me drawing attention to myself. I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about YOU!
Maybe you should focus on your own business rather than focusing on getting into others' businesses? Everybody is tied of the confused speech. A lot of people with a full brain you get onto here, as if you are more. I think we are tied of it. You
never happen without you, and anybody like that, there.WTF are you talking about??? I'm willing to bet you write much more than I do in these posts.Merry go around again. How do you off tangent avoid what's said and make a confusing statement of blame? You keep coming into other people's discussions, saying stuff, so they have to address you, producing a number of times more discussion which would
etc etc.People are not even treating Chuck like that here. Somebody who has great contribution to the world, who you are disrespecting by saying the ga144 is just a grab bag of ideas thrown together with no prior experience/testing, like it's just bad etc
traffic in two orthogonal directions at once. We never heard anything to indicate success. If the chip was any good, why is it even Chuck can't design with it?So, I'm not allowed to express my opinion about the GA144 unless I think it's the greatest thing ever? The design of the chip speaks for itself. One of the last things Chuck did with the GA144 was to try to write code for a node that could pass
Confusion again. We don't know what Chuck did, and you are going off on a tangential. It's never that your are against the chip, though it is about what you are negative about and how far you can go, but it's a lot to do with hanging around people andwhat you say. You know the chip doesn't suite my needs either, and I often have the very same issues as you, but, I see solutions.
The issue with GA, is that there is no money to do an improved chip for us, but how much would it cost to transfer a new redesign onto those old Swiss watch fabs, and do a wafer of chips. They can design a two way point to point non locking parallelcommunications scheme, external psram execute and data/IO pin bus on a core, and serial psram execute and data bus with address auto decode shift register on various externally cores, with internal chip package SRAM/psram and flash mount buses to issue
Thinking about that, it occurs to me that all sides of a processor could be a strip of shared Memory Share Buffer MSB. You could put data and return stacks into such sections too. But, if we treat the communications as a shared memory region, we canpush data onto it, the other side takes data out, evening up flow. You can use pass and wait mode, pass and buffer mode, pass to address mode. Now, if you put the memory on only two sides, the storage sides can connect to the bare sides of surround
Anyway.decade, still no word. No word on any actual application. GA has not even sold enough chips to require a second batch to be built.
When you know this is meant to be a lowest denominator, lowest energy, spasmodic switching/performance device. Sure it might lot suit a lot of us because we want performance and straight forwardness. But, it perfectly fits what it was made for,Which is what??? It was literally not designed for any purpose. The GA144 was a bunch of separate ideas that he threw onto one chip, with no intended market or application. There was word that someone wanted to use it for a hearing aid, but after a
You know how much it costs just to pay to keep the doors open and wages, without producing an unordered chip. The type of application was already answered. Is it their problem, if you want to do different applications? You also know this is based onprevious generations of this sort of device, it is not a "random" collection of ideas.
..
..and may still well have the lowest energy floor per processor of any processor doing light spasmodic processing, in the industry, over a decade latter.
That this is a third generation of this type of device, after a few tested and proven generations at intelasys.
people.Thank you Rick Collins. How are things at Artemis, you were working on a new FPGA Misc design? Why don't you start a thread and talk about that. Sounds very interesting, well it would be to me, I take interest in a number of different things, and
I don't do MISC designs for no reason. I am currently working on a new design for a customer, including an FPGA, but no MCU. It's actually a port of an existing design to replaceYou mean, just like GA is not going to reveal details and of their business with customers
the obsolete FPGA and other chips. But, being property of a customer, I'm not at liberty to divulge the details.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:54:43 AM UTC-4, S wrote:multiprocessor designs, because I don't need billions of operations per second. If I do need very high performance processing, it would be for a specific application, and I would design custom processing for that in the FPGA.
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:11:25 PM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:15:40 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:22:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
..Your assumption is wrong. Personally, I think the design is fatally flawed and can not be "fixed". To be useful, multiprocessor designs require much more means of communications than simple neighbor connections can provide. I don't design
Merry go around again. You design these things for a living, you should be able to easily suggest changes to the conceptual architecture to "fix" it, of it had been broken, as it does what it was designed to do, or "improve" it more to our liking.Gass lighting again, and doing what you are accusing. You think you are so superior (Big) then you prove you can do it and have an idea?I've never said I could fix the GA144. In fact, I'm pretty confident it is fully broken and can't be fixed.
real estate goes up ***HUGELY***. It's not workable. The GA144 isn't the first multiprocessor design ever attempted..Which has nothing to do with the issue of connectivity. The issue is not bandwidth, it's connections. Look up what a hypercube is. That is a structure that is useful for this. But, it still gets out of hand as the numbers of processors goes up. The
The Transputer CPUs are the only other ones I know of, that had anything like the GA144 communication connections. They were essentially serial connections, with a similarI had suggested they change that to a parallel connection. I thought they had announced talked about that.
Let us know when you've run simulations, or built chips or at least done some calculations to show how well it would work.handshake to the GA144. That also did not catch on very much.So, you don't support butted processor to processor parallel ports, and changing the hand shaking environment? That's what I proposed.
I've read your posts, that's why I made the statementSorry, accidentally deleted saying you should check my previous posts on it, where the truth is, and you acting like you missed it. Merry go around.
I'm more likely to share the more than basic details with GA, than you.Why are you talking to me at all? You virtually never like what I say. You claim I am a huge annoyance. Why bother?
speed for most applications. Instead of responding to that, you go off into the deep woods...
..That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.
Ok, if you say so. What I actually said, was that you talk about speeding up the CPUs dramatically, as if that would somehow be a significant inprovement, while ignoring the fact that the current GA144 can't utilize but a small fraction of the CPU
Where did I say that speeding up the processor was a general solution, you lost me in those woods? It might help with external memory access and acquisition, but not much of an improvement.Sorry if I didn't understand what you were/are talking about. Speeding the processor(s) in the GA144 will add nothing to the memory interface. It may speed it up a bit, but then the demand for data will also be increased and you have gained nothing.
I did talk about redesigning the architecture as a major improvement in performance, then you can afd speed, which the redesign could handle, which is a seperate issue. Maybe you should just open source all your military designs,LOL!!! I don't know what "afd speed" means. You can open source anything you want.
What "military" designs are you talking about? You seem to have gone off the deep end on this. When did I say anything about military designs?
you like trying to get others to spill their IP, but what about giving your IP away for free, instead.Why are you being a troll?
That this is a third generation of this type of device, after a few tested and proven generations at intelasys.
people.Thank you Rick Collins. How are things at Artemis, you were working on a new FPGA Misc design? Why don't you start a thread and talk about that. Sounds very interesting, well it would be to me, I take interest in a number of different things, and
Nice talking to you.I don't do MISC designs for no reason. I am currently working on a new design for a customer, including an FPGA, but no MCU. It's actually a port of an existing design to replaceYou mean, just like GA is not going to reveal details and of their business with customers
the obsolete FPGA and other chips. But, being property of a customer, I'm not at liberty to divulge the details.
--
Rick C.
--+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 5:09:56 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:multiprocessor designs, because I don't need billions of operations per second. If I do need very high performance processing, it would be for a specific application, and I would design custom processing for that in the FPGA.
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:54:43 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:11:25 PM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:15:40 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:22:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
..Your assumption is wrong. Personally, I think the design is fatally flawed and can not be "fixed". To be useful, multiprocessor designs require much more means of communications than simple neighbor connections can provide. I don't design
Merry go around again. You design these things for a living, you should be able to easily suggest changes to the conceptual architecture to "fix" it, of it had been broken, as it does what it was designed to do, or "improve" it more to our liking.Gass lighting again, and doing what you are accusing. You think you are so superior (Big) then you prove you can do it and have an idea?I've never said I could fix the GA144. In fact, I'm pretty confident it is fully broken and can't be fixed.
Good on you, but I've explained many times not doing what you are accusing me of, and have direct node addressing and simple multiple busses that answer your concerns. I'm hardly going to make things the same to change them. But, I'm a lowly fool, whatwould I know.
real estate goes up ***HUGELY***. It's not workable. The GA144 isn't the first multiprocessor design ever attempted..Which has nothing to do with the issue of connectivity. The issue is not bandwidth, it's connections. Look up what a hypercube is. That is a structure that is useful for this. But, it still gets out of hand as the numbers of processors goes up. The
The Transputer CPUs are the only other ones I know of, that had anything like the GA144 communication connections. They were essentially serial connections, with a similarI had suggested they change that to a parallel connection. I thought they had announced talked about that.
I did not realise, you don't design these systems.
Well, it's simple, you program down to the capabilities of the hardware. For my graphics processing unit, I couldn't resolve the design to be as useful as I wanted due to bandwidth constraints. Higher bandwidth would definitely solve everything,especially to external memory, with direct execute. Simple example. I could outline an elaborate structure to use the resources passing the data along and inserting data as it goes, but I was practically better off if I did most of it with just one
What, you mean those things any truely intelligent person can do in their heads? Pity Cray and Tesla aren't still around.Let us know when you've run simulations, or built chips or at least done some calculations to show how well it would work.handshake to the GA144. That also did not catch on very much.So, you don't support butted processor to processor parallel ports, and changing the hand shaking environment? That's what I proposed.
I've read your posts, that's why I made the statementSorry, accidentally deleted saying you should check my previous posts on it, where the truth is, and you acting like you missed it. Merry go around.
I'm more likely to share the more than basic details with GA, than you.Why are you talking to me at all? You virtually never like what I say. You claim I am a huge annoyance. Why bother?
Why are you talking to me at all? You virtually never like what I say. You claim I am a huge annoyance. Why bother?
Why follow me around in my threads?
CPU speed for most applications. Instead of responding to that, you go off into the deep woods...That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.
Ok, if you say so. What I actually said, was that you talk about speeding up the CPUs dramatically, as if that would somehow be a significant inprovement, while ignoring the fact that the current GA144 can't utilize but a small fraction of the
sram per data node too, or 256MWord each, I could do Nintendo GBA/SNES like tricks with some 3D too.Thanks for the apology Rick. It's a bit like Rick Chanchez? ...with me sometimes.Where did I say that speeding up the processor was a general solution, you lost me in those woods? It might help with external memory access and acquisition, but not much of an improvement.Sorry if I didn't understand what you were/are talking about. Speeding the processor(s) in the GA144 will add nothing to the memory interface. It may speed it up a bit, but then the demand for data will also be increased and you have gained nothing.
The idea is to run more data and instructions from the external interface. Fur my sequential data application, like a massive pipeline, speed helps. But, it's those general purpose processing modifications I need most. If only they had 512 words of
You known what I meant.I did talk about redesigning the architecture as a major improvement in performance, then you can afd speed, which the redesign could handle, which is a seperate issue. Maybe you should just open source all your military designs,LOL!!! I don't know what "afd speed" means. You can open source anything you want.
Open source, I was previously only aiming to open source certain things
What "military" designs are you talking about? You seem to have gone off the deep end on this. When did I say anything about military designs?You told us you get military contracts. Why waste time?
Because I'm not, but you are often doing so. A troll acts stupid and makes mistakes, in order to bait a response.you like trying to get others to spill their IP, but what about giving your IP away for free, instead.Why are you being a troll?
But does not realise, unless he does it anonymously, he just ruins his own reputation. You think I think highly of people trolling Huge, for instance? Nope, they are fooling themselves. "What unethical conduct" and "Why ever hire somebody like that?",ethical employers might think.
...
That this is a third generation of this type of device, after a few tested and proven generations at intelasys.
and people.Thank you Rick Collins. How are things at Artemis, you were working on a new FPGA Misc design? Why don't you start a thread and talk about that. Sounds very interesting, well it would be to me, I take interest in a number of different things,
Thank you very much for that.Nice talking to you.I don't do MISC designs for no reason. I am currently working on a new design for a customer, including an FPGA, but no MCU. It's actually a port of an existing design to replaceYou mean, just like GA is not going to reveal details and of their business with customers
the obsolete FPGA and other chips. But, being property of a customer, I'm not at liberty to divulge the details.
In article <2737c21a-be14-4af7...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a >single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various >software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed.Parallel processing: You couldn't configure a hypercube,not even a cube.
We (Dutch Forth) did a demo program. Not only required this a patch from
the seller the system software, in the next release the
program no longer worked.
Intriguing as the chip is, you're well advised to not waste any time
with it.
Rick C.
Groetjes Albert
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring. You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 5:24:26 AM UTC-4, none albert wrote:
In article <2737c21a-be14-4af7...@googlegroups.com>,
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
The real issue, is the development software. It was not a product of a >single mind or even influence. It was a bit of a hodgepodge of various >software to handle various functions that may or may not be needed. Parallel processing: You couldn't configure a hypercube,not even a cube. We (Dutch Forth) did a demo program. Not only required this a patch from the seller the system software, in the next release theprogram no longer worked.
Intriguing as the chip is, you're well advised to not waste any time
with it.
Rick C.
Groetjes Albert--------------------
--
Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring. You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -
.well i'm stopping right here as further reading makes no sense ... my appology albert
.be honest here, not banging, but realization ... how many chips that chuck has developed 'on his own' have been successful? even one?
.why 144 processors made up of the very functional g18 instead of bringing that part forward?
.explain the actual benefit here ... ????? 144 processors that are not exactly standalone in nature ... yeah. in a serious power aware application how many processors would get used?
. and why does the g144 need such heat sink? perhaps due to the fact the part is in fact basically analog in nature. no clock means that switches cascade and as that chain of switches engage everything along that path draws current. hmmmm. perhaps someclever clocking could lend repair. hybrid, you know, like here and not in there.
back on subject
.there was a g18 board and somewhere in all the hype the LED turned into a DED when thoughts of marketing happened.
.the g18 board was perfect to get your feet wet with the technology even tho it suffered the thru-put bandwidth issue its big sister continues to foist.
.the g18 had an excellent chance to compete with the m0 or strong-arm chip before every company started to load asics with it. every SOC is an asic. even zilog has a m0 part.
.i smell a huge lack of targeted application marketing here.
.the power usage comparisons to the msp430 16 bit processor line was kinda jokey as i have yet to see power usage while running an equivalent application comparison. ever?
.the original issue was that the required 1.8v voltage provision meant that the power circuit cost more in both price and board space than the processor, not viable against competition .. i requested they use the boot processor to switch over andbecome the 1.8v voltage controller making the parts price point land significantly below all the competition .. DED.
.the g144 will exit as a dead-end project as it cannot be generally applied to the mass market projects that are driving innovative products and the associated profits ... or it would be.
.guys, it's a really great shovel, look at that blade, sharp, quality steel, double folded kickplate .. but, um .. handle, where's the handle? and .. how do we attach it?
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023, 11:18 Lorem Ipsum, <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:..
On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 10:42:08 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 5:09:56 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 28, 2023 at 6:54:43 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 3:11:25 PM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 12:15:40 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 5:22:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:57:33 AM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 5:16:02 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 3:02:58 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 3:41:50 AM UTC+10, Lorem Ipsum wrote:
On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 1:04:38 PM UTC-4, S wrote:
On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 3:10:24 PM UTC+10, yeti wrote:
Dave McGuire <mcg...@lssmuseum.org> writes:
multiprocessor designs, because I don't need billions of operations per second. If I do need very high performance processing, it would be for a specific application, and I would design custom processing for that in the FPGA.Your assumption is wrong. Personally, I think the design is fatally flawed and can not be "fixed". To be useful, multiprocessor designs require much more means of communications than simple neighbor connections can provide. I don't design
what would I know.Good on you, but I've explained many times not doing what you are accusing me of, and have direct node addressing and simple multiple busses that answer your concerns. I'm hardly going to make things the same to change them. But, I'm a lowly fool,
What have I accused" you of exactly?
This is one of the reasons it's difficult to discuss anything with you. You talk in very abstract terms, so that I can't tell what you are reffering to.
The "assumption" I say is wrong, is the idea that every problem can be "fixed". There are fundamental limitations to any issue.
The real estate goes up ***HUGELY***. It's not workable. The GA144 isn't the first multiprocessor design ever attempted..Which has nothing to do with the issue of connectivity. The issue is not bandwidth, it's connections. Look up what a hypercube is. That is a structure that is useful for this. But, it still gets out of hand as the numbers of processors goes up.
The Transputer CPUs are the only other ones I know of, that had anything like the GA144 communication connections. They were essentially serial connections, with a similar
I had suggested they change that to a parallel connection. I thought they had announced talked about that.
I did not realise, you don't design these systems.
I don't design what systems??
Well, it's simple, you program down to the capabilities of the hardware. For my graphics processing unit, I couldn't resolve the design to be as useful as I wanted due to bandwidth constraints. Higher bandwidth would definitely solve everything,especially to external memory, with direct execute. Simple example. I could outline an elaborate structure to use the resources passing the data along and inserting data as it goes, but I was practically better off if I did most of it with just one
Once you have a design description of this, let me know. I would be interested in funding an approach. But, it would require a clear, solid design approach.
What, you mean those things any truely intelligent person can do in their heads? Pity Cray and Tesla aren't still around.handshake to the GA144. That also did not catch on very much.Let us know when you've run simulations, or built chips or at least done some calculations to show how well it would work.
So, you don't support butted processor to processor parallel ports, and changing the hand shaking environment? That's what I proposed.
Yeah, it's funny, but the people who would use your designs would not understand anything you provide to explain the device.
Why follow me around in my threads?
I thought we have conversations, but you seem to think of my comments as rude or attacks. Why do you respond to me at all? Do you have a mental condition that you can't ignore my comments?
Besides, this is not YOUR thread. This was started by someone else. So, if you don't like my replies, too bad.
That you don't have to try to use 700mips, and every cycle you use is more or less an minimal on actual work/communications, compared to everything both of us complain about in performance and programmability.
sram per data node too, or 256MWord each, I could do Nintendo GBA/SNES like tricks with some 3D too.The idea is to run more data and instructions from the external interface. Fur my sequential data application, like a massive pipeline, speed helps. But, it's those general purpose processing modifications I need most. If only they had 512 words of
The external interface will always be limited by the external interface. That's a major limitation in every high speed computing device, the memory interface, or the I/O interface. Internal processing can be increased by increasing the number ofprocessors. But, the ultimate limitation is either internal comms or external comms, because they can not keep up with the number of processors.
You known what I meant.I did talk about redesigning the architecture as a major improvement in performance, then you can afd speed, which the redesign could handle, which is a seperate issue. Maybe you should just open source all your military designs,LOL!!! I don't know what "afd speed" means. You can open source anything you want.
No, I don't know what "afd speed" means.
Open source, I was previously only aiming to open source certain things
What "military" designs are you talking about? You seem to have gone off the deep end on this. When did I say anything about military designs?You told us you get military contracts. Why waste time?
I've never said I get military contracts. Please find a single post where I did say that.
Because I'm not, but you are often doing so. A troll acts stupid and makes mistakes, in order to bait a response.you like trying to get others to spill their IP, but what about giving your IP away for free, instead.Why are you being a troll?
No, a troll simply makes posts to get an inflammatory response. I'm trying to get straight answers out of you. That is very hard to do.
and people.Thank you Rick Collins. How are things at Artemis, you were working on a new FPGA Misc design? Why don't you start a thread and talk about that. Sounds very interesting, well it would be to me, I take interest in a number of different things,
Thank you very much for that.Nice talking to you.I don't do MISC designs for no reason. I am ..
It's a shame I can't get logical comments from you as easily as you make inflammatory comments.
--
Rick C.
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