VFX Forth 5.41 (64 bit editions) is now available for Win, Lin and Mac x64.
https://vfxforth.com/downloads/VfxCommunity/
Stephen
On 19 Jan 2023 at 04:34:11 CET, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The bug is that this ANS-Forth compliant code causes VFX to crash: ------------------------------------------
: lit, ( val -- ) \ runtime: -- val
postpone literal ;
------------------------------------------
For the moment define LIT, as
: lit, ( val -- ) \ runtime: -- val
postpone literal ; doNotSin
An upcoming version of VFX may/will use a different fix and will not require DONOTSIN.
Stephen
By the way, with apologies for hijacking the thread , has anyone come up with a workaround for running Forth on Apple Silicon (I'm referring to the absence of rwx permissions in the "hardened executables" ).
Maybe a Cross-compiler approach?
Stephen - Thanks for fixing that problem with externals that return floating point values! I can now update my production system to the latest version. Everything seems to be working without issue.
The compilation speed is now extraordinarily fast - more than 150,000 lines of code in under a second! It's actually faster to compile and launch the app than it is to launch a pre-compiled version through the OS launcher.
By the way, with apologies for hijacking the thread , has anyone come up with a workaround for running Forth on Apple Silicon (I'm referring to the absence of rwx permissions in the "hardened executables" ). Maybe a Cross-compiler approach?
-------------------------------------------------
Prof. Bruno Degazio
Faculty of Animation, Arts and Design,
Sheridan College, Oakville, ON website:http://sheridan4thyear.blogspot.ca/p/about-bruno-degazio.html
bruno degazio writes:
By the way, with apologies for hijacking the thread , has anyone come up with a workaround for running Forth on Apple Silicon (I'm referring to the absence of rwx permissions in the "hardened executables" ).1) Use Linux; the problem with RWX permissions is just a MacOS
idiosyncrasy (and only on Apple Silicon), Apple Silicon is capable of
RWX permissions.
2) Use Gforth 0.7.3. It happens to work on MacOS on Apple Silicon,
despite not having been designed for the mmap() degradation that this
OS exhibits. Development Gforth does not; I spent a day last summer
working on the problem, but it did not yield in time.
Maybe a Cross-compiler approach?
That's not Forth.
This is interesting for sure.
Are you the only Forth programmer at Sheridan or are there others?
VFX Forth 5.41 (64 bit editions) is now available for Win, Lin and Mac x64.
https://vfxforth.com/downloads/VfxCommunity/
Stephen
On 8/06/2023 1:22 am, Stephen Pelc wrote:
VFX Forth 5.41 (64 bit editions) is now available for Win, Lin and Mac x64. >>
https://vfxforth.com/downloads/VfxCommunity/
Stephen
Has anyone managed to d/l Win 64 v5.41? I keep getting last year's v5.2
Stephen - Thanks for fixing that problem with externals that return floating point values! I can now update my production system to the latest version. Everything seems to be working without issue.
The compilation speed is now extraordinarily fast - more than 150,000 lines of
code in under a second! It's actually faster to compile and launch the app than it is to launch a pre-compiled version through the OS launcher.
By the way, with apologies for hijacking the thread , has anyone come up with a workaround for running Forth on Apple Silicon (I'm referring to the absence of rwx permissions in the "hardened executables" ). Maybe a Cross-compiler approach?
On 14 Jun 2023 at 04:45:55 CEST, "dxforth" <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8/06/2023 1:22 am, Stephen Pelc wrote:
VFX Forth 5.41 (64 bit editions) is now available for Win, Lin and Mac x64. >>>
https://vfxforth.com/downloads/VfxCommunity/
Stephen
Has anyone managed to d/l Win 64 v5.41? I keep getting last year's v5.2
Whoops! Issue script failure. Fixed and committed. The new installers should be available around 13:00 CEST today 14 June 2023.
My apologies for the screw-up. Please refresh your browsers.
Stephen
Stephen - Thanks for fixing that problem with externals
that return floating point values! I can now update my production system
to the latest version. Everything seems to be working without issue.
The compilation speed is now extraordinarily fast - more than 150,000 lines of code
in under a second!
On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 8:41:31 AM UTC-7, bruno degazio wrote:/snip
Stephen - Thanks for fixing that problem with externals
that return floating point values! I can now update my production system
to the latest version. Everything seems to be working without issue.
The compilation speed is now extraordinarily fast - more than 150,000 lines of code
in under a second!
I think that the reason why Stephen Pelc felt comfortable about sabotaging VFX to fail on ANS-Forth code such as LIT, etc. is that all of my code uses POSTPONE that is intermediate-level ANS-Forth programming. He feels comfortable that all VFX customers are novice-level ANS-Forth programmers
who will continue to be novice-level forever. They won't use POSTPONE etc.. The Bruno Degazio's webpage says that he is a music teacher. Toot! Toot!
It is unlikely that he uses POSTPONE enough that he would need
words like LIT, etc.. He may not even know what POSTPONE is.
On 14/06/2023 20:43, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 8:41:31 AM UTC-7, bruno degazio wrote:
Stephen - Thanks for fixing that problem with externals
that return floating point values! I can now update my production system >> to the latest version. Everything seems to be working without issue.
The compilation speed is now extraordinarily fast - more than 150,000 lines of code
in under a second!
I think that the reason why Stephen Pelc felt comfortable about sabotaging VFX to fail on ANS-Forth code such as LIT, etc. is that all of my code uses/snip
POSTPONE that is intermediate-level ANS-Forth programming. He feels comfortable that all VFX customers are novice-level ANS-Forth programmers who will continue to be novice-level forever. They won't use POSTPONE etc..
The Bruno Degazio's webpage says that he is a music teacher. Toot! Toot! It is unlikely that he uses POSTPONE enough that he would need
words like LIT, etc.. He may not even know what POSTPONE is.
"I think", "I think", "I think"...
Have you ever thought that nobody cares what you think?
Why do you think that Stephen Pelc sabotaged VFX?
On 15/06/2023 20:16, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
Why do you think that Stephen Pelc sabotaged VFX?I doubt he did. It seems unlikely and unproductive. What is the actual benefit to him for having done that intentionally?
My experience is that 99.9999% of the time, problems (bugs) are
inadvertent. If you make a claim of intentional sabotage or malicious intent, the burden of proof is on you.
That said, there are far more productive ways to spend your time and efforts.
Stephen - Thanks for fixing that problem with externals that
return floating point values! I can now update my production system
to the latest version. Everything seems to be working without issue.
The compilation speed is now extraordinarily fast - more than
150,000 lines of code in under a second!
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 11:45:53 PM UTC-7, Ron AARON wrote:
On 15/06/2023 20:16, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
I doubt he did. It seems unlikely and unproductive. What is the actual
Why do you think that Stephen Pelc sabotaged VFX?
benefit to him for having done that intentionally?
My experience is that 99.9999% of the time, problems (bugs) are
inadvertent. If you make a claim of intentional sabotage or malicious
intent, the burden of proof is on you.
That said, there are far more productive ways to spend your time and
efforts.
Apparently I shouldn't have used the word "think" for what Ron Aaron does. Stephen Pelc admitted that this was sabotage when he said that the word
to undo the sabotage was: doNotSin
He targeted my IF disambiguifier --- presumably all 51 of the disambiguifiers,
although I haven't checked because that is a waste of my time.
Stephen Pelc is ashamed (or should be) because he said that the disamibuifiers don't work, but they obviously do work. I wrote a
SYNONYM and early-binding MACRO: that depend on the disambiguifiers.
His sabotage of LIT, was a bad idea because this is intermediate-level ANS-Forth (it could be considered novice-level, really), so a lot of his customers might write this and get stung with the sabotage. He likely realized that I could get rid of all the disambiguifiers and all the code (mostly SYNONYM and MACRO:) that depend on the disambiguifiers,
so he hit LIT, too --- this was more subtle sabotage because it would not crash, but it would compile code with the wrong literal value --- he assumed that this would create hard-to-find bugs throughout the novice-package,
but I actually found that LIT, was the problem quickly (he misunderestimated by debugging skill) --- also, LIT, is such simple code that I immediately realized
that this was sabotage, which wouldn't have been apparent if this was some over-complicated code that I had written that might have a bug of mine in it.
You ask:
"What is the actual benefit to him for having done that intentionally?"
You ask this implying that because I can't provide an answer, this disproves my assertion that he sabotaged VFX. Really???
You need to learn a little bit about logic.
I can prove (as shown above) that Stephen Pelc sabotaged VFX without
being able to describe how doing so would benefit Stephen Pelc in any way. There is no benefit to Stephen Pelc!!! He has ruined his credibility forever.
He was mostly likely deeply ashamed because he failed to invent the disambiguifiers and the rquotations, plus he was frightened because he read my HJA430 documentation (the MSP430 assembler) and he knew that I was
already ahead of him in regard to assembler writing --- so he became angry, reached for the only gun that he had, and shot himself in the foot. OOPS!
On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 11:45:53 PM UTC-7, Ron AARON wrote:
On 15/06/2023 20:16, Hugh Aguilar wrote:
I doubt he did. It seems unlikely and unproductive. What is the actual
Why do you think that Stephen Pelc sabotaged VFX?
benefit to him for having done that intentionally?
My experience is that 99.9999% of the time, problems (bugs) are
inadvertent. If you make a claim of intentional sabotage or malicious
intent, the burden of proof is on you.
That said, there are far more productive ways to spend your time and
efforts.
Apparently I shouldn't have used the word "think" for what Ron Aaron does.
Who hurt you so much in your childhood that your insecurities lead youIMO, he's just a sad troll, lashing out for any attention he can get.
to immediately stoop to ad-hominem attacks?
My response to you was neutral in tone and based upon my experience.
Your response was just as I expected from you, but disappointing nonetheless. SAD!
On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 12:37:45 AM UTC-4, Ron AARON wrote:
Who hurt you so much in your childhood that your insecurities lead youIMO, he's just a sad troll, lashing out for any attention he can get.
to immediately stoop to ad-hominem attacks?
My response to you was neutral in tone and based upon my experience.
Your response was just as I expected from you, but disappointing
nonetheless. SAD!
"Don't feed the trolls". I also find it very hard to refrain from engaging them.
On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 12:37:45 AM UTC-4, Ron AARON wrote:engaging them.
Who hurt you so much in your childhood that your insecurities lead youIMO, he's just a sad troll, lashing out for any attention he can get.
to immediately stoop to ad-hominem attacks?
My response to you was neutral in tone and based upon my experience.
Your response was just as I expected from you, but disappointing
nonetheless. SAD!
"Don't feed the trolls". I also find it very hard to refrain from
"Don't feed the trolls" is asking one to pick a side.
Would CHATGPT be able to remove non-topic post from a
comp.lang.forth archive? That would be nice!
Also note that the subject line was not maintained. (I have changed the subject line, because I changed the subject.)
A warning about this would also be nice.
VFX Forth 5.41 (64 bit editions) is now available for Win, Lin and Mac x64.
In article <u7h1cl$1o24u$1@dont-email.me>, dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> wrote:
On 28/06/2023 6:35 am, ccur...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 12:37:45 AM UTC-4, Ron AARON wrote:engaging them.
Who hurt you so much in your childhood that your insecurities lead you >>>> to immediately stoop to ad-hominem attacks?IMO, he's just a sad troll, lashing out for any attention he can get.
My response to you was neutral in tone and based upon my experience.
Your response was just as I expected from you, but disappointing
nonetheless. SAD!
"Don't feed the trolls". I also find it very hard to refrain from
"Don't feed the trolls" is asking one to pick a side.
Would CHATGPT be able to remove non-topic post from a
comp.lang.forth archive? That would be nice!
I have no way of finding this out myself because I can't run VFX on my computer.
On 28 Jun 2023 at 18:48:04 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have no way of finding this out myself because I can't run VFX on my computer. hOf course you can. You just do not have the guts to do it.
Stephen
On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:37:51 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
On 28 Jun 2023 at 18:48:04 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have no way of finding this out myself because I can't run VFX on myOf course you can. You just do not have the guts to do it.
computer. h
Stephen
I don't have the guts to run known malware on my computer.
You have already sabotaged VFX to crash when it detected code
from my novice-package, although the code is ANS-Forth compliant.
What is the next level of your VFX sabotage? Erase my hard-disk?
Why don't you just tell me. Did you "invent" (steal) the rquotations
for this version of VFX or do you still have the worthless Paysan-faked quotations that you had in the previous version? With the Paysan-faked quotations in VFX you look like an idiot, but with the rquotations you
look like an intellectual-property thief. Which do you prefer?
Also, define the word "sin" so that all of your potential customers can know if you consider them to be sinners or not, and if your sabotage of VFX
will be aimed at them or not.
I wrote an MSP430 assembler --- in the Middle Ages I would have been
burned at the stake for that! --- now you sabotage VFX to stop me.
On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:37:51 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
On 28 Jun 2023 at 18:48:04 CEST, "Hugh Aguilar" <hughag...@gmail.com> wrote:I don't have the guts to run known malware on my computer.
I have no way of finding this out myself because I can't run VFX on my computer. hOf course you can. You just do not have the guts to do it.
Stephen
You have already sabotaged VFX to crash when it detected code
from my novice-package, although the code is ANS-Forth compliant.
What is the next level of your VFX sabotage? Erase my hard-disk?
Why don't you just tell me. Did you "invent" (steal) the rquotations
for this version of VFX or do you still have the worthless Paysan-faked quotations that you had in the previous version? With the Paysan-faked quotations in VFX you look like an idiot, but with the rquotations you
look like an intellectual-property thief. Which do you prefer?
Also, define the word "sin" so that all of your potential customers can know if you consider them to be sinners or not, and if your sabotage of VFX
will be aimed at them or not.
I wrote an MSP430 assembler --- in the Middle Ages I would have been
burned at the stake for that! --- now you sabotage VFX to stop me.
I don't have the guts to run known malware on my computer.
You have already sabotaged VFX to crash when it detected code
from my novice-package, although the code is ANS-Forth compliant.
What is the next level of your VFX sabotage? Erase my hard-disk?
Why don't you just tell me. Did you "invent" (steal) the rquotations
for this version of VFX or do you still have the worthless Paysan-faked quotations that you had in the previous version? With the Paysan-faked quotations in VFX you look like an idiot, but with the rquotations you
look like an intellectual-property thief. Which do you prefer?
Also, define the word "sin" so that all of your potential customers can know if you consider them to be sinners or not, and if your sabotage of VFX
will be aimed at them or not.
VFX has the same quotations as described in the Forth standard.
Also, define the word "sin" so that all of your potential customers can knowOnce upon a when, VFX re-ran source code to improve performance.
if you consider them to be sinners or not, and if your sabotage of VFX will be aimed at them or not.
When it was proven that this technique cannot produce compliant
code, we replaced the source inliner with the tokeniser. Your question
as to the meaning of "sin" is answered in the first paragraph
of the manual section about the tokeniser. This documentation
has been available to you for many, many years, probably since 2009.
\ *P From VFX Forth v4.3, build 2825, the tokeniser replaces the
\ ** previous source inliner. The change was made to improve ANS
\ ** and Forth200x standards compliance, and to reduce issues
\ ** with particularly "guru" code. To prevent breaking your
\ ** existing code, the tokeniser uses the same word names for
\ ** its control words. The abbreviation "sin" is short for "source
\ ** inline".
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:28:18 -0700 (PDT), hughag...@gmail.com
wrote:
My complaint against Stephen Pelc is that he uses dishonest business practi= >ces. He supports ANS-Forth and Forth-200x for the purpose of making all For= >th programmers look stupid. He doesn't actually use ANS-Forth himself. He r= >outinely provides vendor-specific code in VFX, even when it is easy to writ= >e the code in ANS-Forth, for the purpose of trapping his customers in vendo= >r lock-in. A good example is SYNONYM --- I can write this in ANS-Forth usin= >g my disambiguifiers --- he insists that this is impossible to write in ANS= >-Forth --- he refuses to admit that the disambiguifiers exist because he wa= >nts ANS-Forth's FIND to behave differently in every ANS-Forth compiler.
Hugh's wonderful disambiguifiers do NOT do what the great Hugh thinks
they do. What the great Hugh has done is to redefine a large number of
words so that they behave in a very restricted way to support the
great Hugh's version of Forth. Hugh's SYNONYM is not portable ANS
Forth unless you use Hugh's Forth. Bah, humbug. Another emperor
with no clothes.
Stephen
On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:05:46 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
VFX has the same quotations as described in the Forth standard.You don't know how to implement general-purpose data-structures.
VFX has never provided any general-purpose data-structures and
there is no evidence to indicate that you or anybody else on the
Forth-200x committee know how to implement such a thing.
Your employee Peter Knaggs, also a Forth-200x committee member,
failed to implement a linked-list --- that is pathetic incompetence!
Your failure to understand the concept of general-purpose data-structures
is why you accept the Paysan-faked quotations that are worthless.
Also, define the word "sin" so that all of your potential customers can knowOnce upon a when, VFX re-ran source code to improve performance.
if you consider them to be sinners or not, and if your sabotage of VFX will be aimed at them or not.
When it was proven that this technique cannot produce compliant
code, we replaced the source inliner with the tokeniser. Your question
as to the meaning of "sin" is answered in the first paragraph
of the manual section about the tokeniser. This documentation
has been available to you for many, many years, probably since 2009.
\ *P From VFX Forth v4.3, build 2825, the tokeniser replaces theThis is bullshit!
\ ** previous source inliner. The change was made to improve ANS
\ ** and Forth200x standards compliance, and to reduce issues
\ ** with particularly "guru" code. To prevent breaking your
\ ** existing code, the tokeniser uses the same word names for
\ ** its control words. The abbreviation "sin" is short for "source
\ ** inline".
My novice-package worked fine under VFX for many, many years,
since 2010. Then with this recent VFX version you specifically targeted
the disambiguifiers with sabotage of VFX, and the word to undo
the sabotage is doNotSin. LIT, and the disambiguifiers aren't "guru code" (whatever that means). This is just the use of POSTPONE inside of a
colon definition.
You have been attacking the disambiguifiers with lies.
Now you claim that it is just a coincidence that VFX fails on the disambiguifiers, and the word to fix this is: doNotSin
On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 2:27:41 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:28:18 -0700 (PDT), hughag...@gmail.com
wrote:
My complaint against Stephen Pelc is that he uses dishonest business practi=
ces. He supports ANS-Forth and Forth-200x for the purpose of making all For=
th programmers look stupid. He doesn't actually use ANS-Forth himself. He r=
outinely provides vendor-specific code in VFX, even when it is easy to writ=
e the code in ANS-Forth, for the purpose of trapping his customers in vendo=
r lock-in. A good example is SYNONYM --- I can write this in ANS-Forth usin=
g my disambiguifiers --- he insists that this is impossible to write in ANS=
-Forth --- he refuses to admit that the disambiguifiers exist because he wa=
nts ANS-Forth's FIND to behave differently in every ANS-Forth compiler.
Hugh's wonderful disambiguifiers do NOT do what the great Hugh thinks
they do. What the great Hugh has done is to redefine a large number of words so that they behave in a very restricted way to support the
great Hugh's version of Forth. Hugh's SYNONYM is not portable ANS
Forth unless you use Hugh's Forth. Bah, humbug. Another emperor
with no clothes.
Stephen
You are a liar!
This is described here: https://groups.google.com/g/comp.lang.forth/c/T-yYkpVwYew/m/fnXe90wUAgAJ
You want people to be "pleasant" to you --- this means that you want brown-nosers who accept your blatant lies without question --- you find it quite unpleasant when your blatant lies are pointed out in public.
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