I like to think about how we could design our own part in the world better. I therefore
also think how our past world could have been designed.

I really regret some things, such as the failure of Novix. That the competing UK forth
chip was going be a twin chipset, which has a cost affect.

Looking back, the Novix/RTX design was excellent for a Commodore 65. On these base machines, you didn't really need all the higher end OS features of the 68000.
Particularly machines like the Sinclair machines. It would be a great match, particularly
if you integrated some graphics features ( like multiple colour depth resolution character tiling, scrolling, and some shared memory sprites and a basic
integrated chipset (or at a home computer level). You could loose 3 out of 4 cycles
to shared memory access through a memory hub function, and still be competitive. The GEOS GUI package, could have made an excellent home computer. A
misc processor, even better, even on the original Atari VCS. The Sega Mega drive or
Genesis, could have flown, by that time, Computer Cowboys could have offered them a 32
bit shboom processor, a leading design. With all I know now, the time was ripe for such a thing to happen.


Back in the day, many firms came around knocking on doors of companies, peddling
advanced gaming technology to firms. Some of the leading chipsets in game consoles,
had been peddled to multiple companies. The companies who adopted them, often survived or led the field. But, back in 1983, there were only the Commodore 64, Nintendo,
Atari 7800 chips etc that led the way at the low end. Commodore 64's chip had some draw backs, and something not too much more complex was needed
for the Commodore 128.

The Atari 7800 was a paid for design by a company that designed unofficial mods for
Atari Arcade games, they used arcade like technology, and was well and truely out
there, but hobbled by poorer system resources, and processor. A Novix, there, wow. You have yourself something to come under the Atari ST and out compete Commodore.

Commodore had bought the Fab firm, MOS Technologies at a bargain price, and used it
to undercut the competition. But, to stay up to date, you need to upgrade your fab, lots of money, so you can provide
better chips. They had problems trying to design a 16 bit 6502 replacement. A Novix, or Misc, would have
been something, which could get better performance without updating the fab. I forget the name of the engineer there, who came up with the Commodore 128 design (which was supposed to use a much better graphics chip, but he was talked into
using an in-house part, which turned out to be much worse. I think the chip he wanted, might have been the Motorola
one people think used Amiga technology through some collaboration, the specs are
similar). He was just short of inventing the first integrated home computer shared memory chipset on the plus 4
range (which type of chipset was probably by Acorn first, who did the Electron and ARM). The issue is, that they
could have released earlier with a Novix. The 64 was really a stepping stone to
something more like latter 16 bit home computers.

One issue that really stuffed everything, is the game console crash (and at one time home computers). This stopped the release of of the Atari 7800, and a number of
advanced consoles, and ET was hidden in the desert (joke about the ET game cartridges
:) ). But, Nintendo made heaps of money in Japan, releasing a better machine, that was worth buying. Companies had in their hands a formular to get consumers
buying again, and pull the companies through, but many didn't release the better
machines, and suffered. So despite the bleakness, it was still an excellent time for a
Novix like cpu to be picked up by the knowledgeable (I'm not saying here the Novix as was,
but a version with bugs fixed, and some more new features. 40xx+/60xx+?).
The interesting thing is, maybe you could have a Novix derived design in a pin compatible socket on the 64 design, or extended by 8 bits of the data bus. It maybe
have been possible to use, or largely use, the entire Commodore 64 motherboard and other components, which Jack would have been very happy about. However, replacing most chips and integrating functions into one socket free's up space to put
memory. Even today, FPGA's are put into modules, which go into these sockets, as
replacement repair parts.

Now, the Atari VCS with such a chip, but better misc, from the beginning, would have
allowed much better performance and clearer upgrade path. It's graphics modes are software driven, so
a better CPU would help. I've come up with a insane theoretical design for an game engine for the VCS, which could enable you to develop games of the level of
Sonic the Hedgehog on it, which would look like the version on the Sega Master System. With a misc or Novix like design, things could be even better. There is
absolutely no real market for something like that on the VCS today, but I am thinking
of including it on the retro gaming chip I have planned, and a new object orientated
programming system to complement Forth. The retro chip was to use massive compression techniques but, every redirection to the eventual data destination, takes up a cycle or so, or requires parallelism (tiling and tile reuse, and reusing sprites
images, are all basic compression techniques used
back then, so it's not totally unreasonable). I designed my theoretical GA144 renderer
around this problem, so, on average, nearly 0 extra cycles to the parallel pipeline, but not
enough memory for a lot of detail. But, a lot more could have been done in the 1970's
using thee techniques. The Atari 7800 chipset was indeed, using a lot of other techniques that could have
been invented and used earlier on. The way things could have been.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

https://youtu.be/L-78pcvZ200?t=215

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:42:02 AM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:

https://youtu.be/L-78pcvZ200?t=215

The official video is better:
https://youtu.be/TU3-lS_Gryk

It's good you have something with drive to work by.
Keep an eye out for the girl is the striped dress.

Here's a rarer one:

https://youtu.be/Hvqgb1D6Opw

The day and time.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 26/08/2022 00:17, Wayne morellini wrote:

I like to think about how we could design our own part in the world better. I therefore
also think how our past world could have been designed.

Old adage about repeating the same mistakes applies. Psychologically
humans haven't changed for a good few thousand years. All that's
happened is we've used technology to advance the same old ambitions
of 'personal advancement'.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 10:43:36 AM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 26/08/2022 00:17, Wayne morellini wrote:

I like to think about how we could design our own part in the world better. I therefore
also think how our past world could have been designed.

Old adage about repeating the same mistakes applies. Psychologically
humans haven't changed for a good few thousand years. All that's
happened is we've used technology to advance the same old ambitions
of 'personal advancement'.

Not really, it's just some get things wrong and can't judge things,
Figuring out isn't free.

Now we have people with a voice yelling access the room, who shouldn't
have a voice to do so, and these people are progressively getting in charge, And as they are psychologically expanding they are changing behaviour. It's
a number of old style societies that have a name for these people, who
will wreck things and defend the society's interested. The first word starts with
"Useful" the second word is a derogatory. There are two main old ways of living. One is of man one is of man with and under God.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth. The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)

Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling
of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.

Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme. But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,) you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
(with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.

Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around.
But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
(think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out,
none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.

p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU, but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)

Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.

Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme. But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,) you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
(with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.

Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around. But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
(think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out, none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.

p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU, but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

Sorry, I didn't catch a name to address you by.

I didn't mean to imply that the Novix wasn't customised to suit the system (talking about
big companies). So, and dram interface is totally possible, and still at significant
performance increase using shared memory and similar graphics system to what they
used, or better system. It is basically a CPU core use, building out from that what fits
The budget. Of course, certain companies where notorious for skimping on new better
design expenses, at crucial times, which choked them. For example, the Commodore 64
was the only significant design improvement, which deserved a followup enhancement in
the next 2 years. Commodore only held off demise, due to buying the Commodore Amiga
Design in, because some other competitor was unwilling to pay the price for it. That other
company only really survived because they started innovating again late in the period, but
Too late fur such a moving field, with Nintendo and Sega moving in as well. I think I also
mentioned misc here. Both designs were suitable to be implemented on Mos technology's
slower fab process. The main benefit being the modest transistor count and 1 cycle
execution compared to an x86, 68000, in the range of 8 bit CPUs, while likely increasing
MHz a bit (from the design process in this what if scenario. If Church Peddle had done the
re-design instead of Chuck More (as much as we appreciate both) would it have been faster
Than a 6502 in MHz, we don't know. Of course, the systems were memory limited, so dual
bank dram (with video priority to the other bank would have allowed significant improvement
In the 8 bit era, bringing more low end functionality before the Amiga era, and as low end
alternatives to the expensive initial Amiga and ST ranges. But enough for some home
machine usage scenarios of the times. The graphics scheme design I identified, indicates
that they could have done better with similar or less transistors in this period. The reduced
transistor counts also allowing for earlier one chip chipset implementation like the Arm did
in the Archimedes series going into phone era, giving increased cost advantages. I have
advocated for a long dip module scheme before, allowing for narrow silicon, and even butted
multiple die like implementation to increase average yields.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)

Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.

Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks
of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme. But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,) you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
(with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.

Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around. But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
(think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out, none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.

p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU, but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

I'm trying to get to a point where I can go to the local innovation hub, and see if I can
get anybody interested in doing development and business a few retro and newer products
I want to do. Currently Ive had a lot of health issues and too many totally unnecessary legal
Issues to be able to have enough time to do some little thing when well enough. But,
I was interested in doing a proof of concept retro machine using my graphics and misc like
architectures, to prove what could have been fine in those days, and a watch version.
But to start off enhancing a zx81 design to do better colour and vector graphics, with light
changes,and sound. But the likelihood of getting a compatible 6 micron fab process these
days (the exact same performance as the original used in Commodore, Atari or Spectrum/zx81),
is too unlikely. Since the collapse in the zx81 and VCS sectors in recent years, there doesn't
seem to be enough of a market of users. I mean 1 million hobbyists sales is ok, ten thousand
is not enough to warrant the effort. So, I'm looking at an free add on enhancement project,
which I also can't get too due to issues here. But cheaper and simpler, and people can make it
themselves. While I hopefully can get around to a new representative retro design, and real device.
From which more modern fuller devices could follow up. The market I looked at years ago, as the
followup is very viable, just need to kick start it, which the retro design could produce income
towards. Crashing into a market without that user base, and money for IP slows recognition and
adoption allowing competition to move in before you can have enough of a base to ensure future
success. At my age and health, not something willing to put money into starting rather than my time
effort and skill. If step one is successful, that will earn enough to pay for step two, and at some
Time, attract investors. I'm seriously looking going to investors with some other simple tech I'm musing
to design custom processing at home. I'm trying to think out a cheap implementation solution for
that, rather than more complex things that require a lot of money to implement and perfect. If I hadn't
had bad health and brain damage, I might have been able to come up with that 100-1000 times faster.
Now, even when well, I have to think sometimes hoe to open up the mail app on my phone, like today.
Which is rot (not Rise of the Triads :) ). But, at least I thought through a lot of this stuff before it got too
bad, and thousands of designs. Those sorts of things stick on memory a bit better. If anybody knows of
any groups that might like to do this, email me. I'm thinking of going to a certain company if all else fails.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 1:15:32 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

lorem ipsum...

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

How you doing old mate? Was a bit concerned we haven't seen you for while, and was going post to
ask if you were ok, but then seen you turn up in a thread today. Please stop being bitter and following people?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 3:52:39 AM UTC+10, referen...@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:04:51 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

My appologies for all the typing mistakes there. A bit distracted.

One additional constraint on that generation of hardware was memory bandwidth.
The Apple II relied on alternate phase access between display hardware and CPU
on standard DRAM, and _barely_ supported a limited graphics display. Commodore 64,
Atari 400/800 etc essentially froze the CPU while display was active, which is why
all the real motion artifacts were produced by hardware sprites accessing on-chip
memory. (And of course for the VCS, the CPU _was_ the graphics engine, and any real game logic had to be done during the vertical blanking interval!)

Some of the Arcade machines used dual-ported DRAM or interleaved
banks of nybble-wide DRAM for increased bandwidth, allowing about a doubling
of graphics resolution. But, they could afford 2x or 3x the BOM cost of a home machine.

Anyhow, faster hardware like Novix assumed static RAM, e.g. several banks of the 32x9 cache chips designed to support Intel's level 2 caching scheme. But, with the cost constraints of a consumer system limiting how much
SRAM you actually could put on the board (answer: probably a single bank,) you'd still have to choose between ~10 MIPS processing capability at one extreme
(with much of that horsepower going to calculating and moving pixels in the bitmap) and
actually displaying those pixels at workstation-level resolution on a color display.

Personally, working at a game company during that time, our R&D team
did indeed have pencil designs of Novix-based home devices kicking around. But, given the cost constraints imposed on us by the marketing folks,
we were still looking at rather small amounts of static RAM rather than
big DRAMS, which led us to consider non-graphical interfaces
(think "Teddy Ruxpin-like" toys) rather than gaming machines with graphical displays of even Amiga quality. And of course as you already pointed out, none of this survived the crash of the first generation home game market.

p.s. as Phil Koopman pointed out back in the day, a CPU running an interpreter can
actually have _lower_ demand on a shared memory bank than a conventional CPU,
but only if the processor chip has enough onboard memory to hold the interpretive
kernel (or, like the Novix, that's just part of the processor hardware). Sadly, this only
applies to instruction stream, as either kind of processor still needs to read and
write data, consuming comparable amounts of bandwidth.
Or, at least that's going to be true until on-chip D cache gets really big, and smart
cache managers become practical so that entire cache lines can be filled and emptied
more efficiently than simple word accesses could do.

Sorry, I didn't catch a name to address you by.

I didn't mean to imply that the Novix wasn't customised to suit the system (talking about
big companies). So, and dram interface is totally possible, and still at significant
performance increase using shared memory and similar graphics system to what they
used, or better system. It is basically a CPU core use, building out from that what fits
The budget. Of course, certain companies where notorious for skimping on new better
design expenses, at crucial times, which choked them. For example, the Commodore 64
was the only significant design improvement, which deserved a followup enhancement in
the next 2 years. Commodore only held off demise, due to buying the Commodore Amiga
Design in, because some other competitor was unwilling to pay the price for it. That other
company only really survived because they started innovating again late in the period, but
Too late fur such a moving field, with Nintendo and Sega moving in as well. I think I also
mentioned misc here. Both designs were suitable to be implemented on Mos technology's
slower fab process. The main benefit being the modest transistor count and 1 cycle
execution compared to an x86, 68000, in the range of 8 bit CPUs, while likely increasing
MHz a bit (from the design process in this what if scenario. If Church Peddle had done the
re-design instead of Chuck More (as much as we appreciate both) would it have been faster
Than a 6502 in MHz, we don't know. Of course, the systems were memory limited, so dual
bank dram (with video priority to the other bank would have allowed significant improvement
In the 8 bit era, bringing more low end functionality before the Amiga era, and as low end
alternatives to the expensive initial Amiga and ST ranges. But enough for some home
machine usage scenarios of the times. The graphics scheme design I identified, indicates
that they could have done better with similar or less transistors in this period. The reduced
transistor counts also allowing for earlier one chip chipset implementation like the Arm did
in the Archimedes series going into phone era, giving increased cost advantages. I have
advocated for a long dip module scheme before, allowing for narrow silicon, and even butted
multiple die like implementation to increase average yields.

I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.

Rick C.

Jan Coombs
--

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <348981ee-1aae-450f-85f9-22537bfcceb4n@googlegroups.com>,
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote: <SNIP>
I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

Rick C.

Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 10:37:18 PM UTC+10, none albert wrote:

In article <348981ee-1aae-450f...@googlegroups.com>,
Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote: <SNIP>.

At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

Thanks for your hubris Albert. You can follow comments among quotes, the please
do so. You know that with such damage it's hard to read and snip things. It's not all
About you.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:04:39 PM UTC+10, Jan Coombs wrote:

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

"lorem ipsum".

I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.

Jan Coombs

They were.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 9:23:47 PM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:

I'm trying to get to a point where I can go to the local innovation hub, and see if I can
get anybody interested in doing development and business a few retro and newer products
I want to do.[..] there doesn't
seem to be enough of a market of users. I mean 1 million hobbyists sales is ok, ten thousand
is not enough to warrant the effort. So, I'm looking at an free add on enhancement project [..]
If step one is successful, that will earn enough to pay for step two, and at some
Time, attract investors. I'm seriously looking going to investors with some other simple tech I'm musing
to design custom processing at home.

..
"lorem ipsum".

People who can't really design much authentic and new and very good.. Clowns. The hobbyist of the
business world. You come across as Rick, is that you Rock.

You seem to have problems with concepts Nd understanding what's going on, but seem self entitled
to want to just in with a big mouth and regurgitate what you don't know. I'm sorry for you, that you
Have such a miserable life you have to piss on other people with fun anti-fscts, instead of being busy
working, hiding behind your moniker. Zbig.

If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..
I don't think I've ever met anybody with real talent that acts like you, they are always interested and
reflective on what is happening, that's intelligent people. I see garbage being thrown around a lot
as intelligence, and unless you are damaging or throwing it at me or others, I don't care. I don't
follow people around stalking them, even though they often deserve it and have low hanging fruit
to pick at. I might rarely say something outside my conversations to a real issue maker. But I,
like many intelligent people, just leave them alone to their own delusions. You can only help certain
people.

Find others in your league instead of stalking innocents. It's not your thread of project or interest, or
comments, so time to finish!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I'm trying to get to a point where I can go to the local innovation hub, and see if I can
get anybody interested in doing development and business a few retro and newer products
I want to do.[..] there doesn't
seem to be enough of a market of users. I mean 1 million hobbyists sales is ok, ten thousand
is not enough to warrant the effort. So, I'm looking at an free add on enhancement project [..]
If step one is successful, that will earn enough to pay for step two, and at some
Time, attract investors. I'm seriously looking going to investors with some other simple tech I'm musing
to design custom processing at home.

Look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZBDUbfv4E

So that's the difference between talkers and doers. That second kind just do their designs,
not caring that much about „anybody interested” in advance.

Or that Australian guy, with his Maximite (in various variants!): https://geoffg.net/maximite.html

Have he requested „1 million hobbyists sales” before he started anything?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 10:15:23 PM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:

If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..

Oh, so you're going to develop „tens of millions of dollars” business by talking here, on c.l.f.?
Wish you success.

The point i think is, not talking to certain people. I'll tell you what, one needs a lot more success than
you have to do it. That should give you an idea.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..

Oh, so you're going to develop „tens of millions of dollars” business by talking here, on c.l.f.?
Wish you success.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 8:37:18 AM UTC-4, none albert wrote:

In article <348981ee-1aae-450f...@googlegroups.com>,
Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 7:07:09 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote: <SNIP>
I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

I thought the joke was pretty good myself. It would not have made sense if I trimmed it. No?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 8:18:34 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 10:15:23 PM UTC+10, Zbig wrote:

If you are so superior, then you do it for me, otherwise give up. You think tens of millions
of dollars of cost is going be paid by 10,000 sales at $100 each, get reality, and stop acting like an..

Oh, so you're going to develop „tens of millions of dollars” business by talking here, on c.l.f.?
Wish you success.

The point i think is, not talking to certain people. I'll tell you what, one needs a lot more success than
you have to do it. That should give you an idea.

There are many, many people we *don't* talk to. What makes the difference is who you *do* talk to.

What is so strange about your phobia for my posts, is that anyone can ignore any post they wish. My "lorem ipsum"
post was a very, very small offense and a reasonable joke. It takes a special person to be outraged by it.

I was going to respond to some of your posts previously. But it is nearly impossible to respond to you in a way that does not set you off. No matter how agreeable I try to be at various times, you find something to be insulted by and then start a flame.


Whatever. Enjoy your life.

lorem ipsum to all

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 6:04:39 AM UTC-4, Jan Coombs wrote:

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.

lorem ipsum

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:00:12 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 6:04:39 AM UTC-4, Jan Coombs wrote:

On Sun, 4 Sep 2022 20:15:31 -0700 (PDT)
Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

I see these posts and am always surprised to find they don't start with "lorem ipsum".

I see replies to these posts, and wonder why all the (irrelevant?) lines were not snipped.

lorem ipsum

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Oh thank you for leaving my line in there, it must therefore be relevant!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:09:29 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

lorem ipsum..

What a strange one. Not really offended by "lorem ipsum" as I'm the last one in my threads it applies to. It's just funnily strange thing to bring up, when that is mainly all that you do in
these threads to an extent. Sure average people might not see the problems in your "arguments" and take you seriously, which is very damaging to projects, community efforts, and
facts. Which you would already Know, but any seriously intelligent person would see through that, even if they don't pick up on the motive. Caring people are often taken advantage of by
insolent.., but it's not often the case that they are more intelligent as well as more moral. Sometimes you act a certain way, then you slip in something. And the truth is, you are the one
who doesn't have to post here. I've got to protect the integrity of the information from those who want to kill steal and destroy (look it up). I had a quote here, I'll try to find it.

Normally, "Only a fool (or fools) thinks his foolishness is fun!"
Copyright 6-9-2022+, Me.

Incredible that Philosopher Me, sure gets around a lot, as much as you do here. Maybe he's Chinese with a name like that?

Anyway, I'm glad less deceptive people are turning up to scam troll my threads.

Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.

Now, I've shown you wrong on just about everything, as normal. Bye!

Folks, don't be fooled. A lot of people stay away from here because of a handful of people trying stuff, which results in some classic melt downs at times, so jack o lanterns can
laugh at them. Jail for jack o lanterns should be the new Usenet moto. A couple of changes in California, and certain countrys', laws would get rid of a lot off the net. So many of these
people seem like sole workers, who others find it difficult to work with, that get offended at the thought of community collaboration. Though not authentic themselves, they have a hard
time relating to people who are. As the saying goes, was it: to the evil all things are evil, or to the good all things are good? If only they could collaborate for the common good, rather
than trying to destroy it!

Anyway, apparently, one must be a royal dummy not to be as smart as them. I've got a friend with twin degrees who blindly follows this sort of thing around, and can't see the fault in his
logic, and starts to say the most bazaar random things sometimes. I get both shocked and bemused. That seems to be how life is.

I'll tell you a funny story. Years ago, I was walking with a friend across an intersection. She had just done something and said, "I'll show you women know a thing or two" and I said,
"What! You mean to tell me, you women know just one..or two things" (timing is everything) to which she hit me so hard in the arm, I couldn't stop laughing for a while. :). Love that girl to
bits (Not like me to do something like that, but things could be a bit wearing, even though women really seem to like that for some reason). So, I can see people playing up with logic,
coming from a long way off. Some of us just choose to be good protectors, and attract the opposites. You too can turn to the light side, Anakin! :)

Now, be serious along with me Rick. There is a world of opportunity out there, even for the weakest part, if you collaborate rather than oppress!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 3:32:26 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 12:09:29 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

lorem ipsum..

What a strange one. Not really offended by "lorem ipsum" as I'm the last one in my threads it applies to. It's just funnily strange thing to bring up, when that is mainly all that you do in
these threads to an extent. Sure average people might not see the problems in your "arguments" and take you seriously, which is very damaging to projects, community efforts, and
facts. Which you would already Know, but any seriously intelligent person would see through that, even if they don't pick up on the motive. Caring people are often taken advantage of by
insolent.., but it's not often the case that they are more intelligent as well as more moral. Sometimes you act a certain way, then you slip in something. And the truth is, you are the one
who doesn't have to post here. I've got to protect the integrity of the information from those who want to kill steal and destroy (look it up). I had a quote here, I'll try to find it.

Normally, "Only a fool (or fools) thinks his foolishness is fun!"
Copyright 6-9-2022+, Me.

Incredible that Philosopher Me, sure gets around a lot, as much as you do here. Maybe he's Chinese with a name like that?

Anyway, I'm glad less deceptive people are turning up to scam troll my threads.

Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.

Now, I've shown you wrong on just about everything, as normal. Bye!

..

Now, be serious along with me Rick. There is a world of opportunity out there, even for the weakest part, if you collaborate rather than oppress!

He admits I have a point, again.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 3:31:13 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:

On 7/09/2022 3:32 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

Why do they all come to the Forth group? We haven't heard from the one who's name shall not be mentioned, in a while. I hope he's ok.

--

Rick C. and Lorem Ipsum

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 5:31:13 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 7/09/2022 3:32 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

Well, couldn't find a central forth one. Presumably with sensible people.

I doesn't matter, this year s a place holder for real people (which makes
me realise, all the ones who make trouble, do not use their own names. Hmm).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 7/09/2022 3:32 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

Now, I'm thread starter and moderator of my own projects, so you know I have to respond to stupidity, otherwise credible work will be destroyed by incredible people. If we had (cough)
proper moderation, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, you would be out of your ear. Constructive people would be left to their own collaboration.

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 6:11:21 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:
..:

I doesn't matter, this year s a place holder for real people (which makes
me realise, all the ones who make trouble, do not use their own names. Hmm).

My Apologies for the typos, I was in a real rush recovering.

It doesn't matter, here is a place holder for real people..

People want to be 'smart' but not discuss "smart".

If only fpga worked at 2ghz in MCU image, and could run at 1mw, it would be fine, and cost a cent
or less, but can we even get within a tenth of all those metrics?

Currently looking for custom silicon of Bernd:s b16 model, or that Jforth or something CPU, to do
An alternative project to the one above.

I would like to keep a misc development flavour across future devices, and don't need the
maximum performance. 200mhz at 1mw at 10 cents would be something. I'm trying to
practically harvest energy from a video signal into a energy storage arrangement then relay
that to a chip at the other end of the connection, which can output VGA or HDMI, using power
off the HDMI port. So, there is little energy on the video signal, and it had to be 6-10 bit at
basic 320x625 50i video speeds ADC with greater than 30db SNR, or 60db. A tall order, but
things worth doing often are.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 2:37:18 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:

I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

Except for this notorious Italian ALL CAPS spammer, I don't maintain a "killlist".
I love every miserable excuse for a human being in this group.
Including myself, of course.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 10:28:36 AM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 2:37:18 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:

I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

Except for this notorious Italian ALL CAPS spammer, I don't maintain a "killlist".
I love every miserable excuse for a human being in this group.
Including myself, of course.

Hans Bezemer

That's nice to hear.

--

Lorem Ipsum

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:52:31 AM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

Well, couldn't find a central forth one. Presumably with sensible people.

I believe you may want to establish a blog — something like „Entrepreneur's Blog
of Wayne Morellini” — where you'll publish all your ideas, where you'll run special
forums, moderating them — and of course we all go there to discuss it all in every
detail.
Such blog will attract all the sensible people like a magnet — think about this!

Or... You can post your thoughts here and simply ignore anyone who offends you. Many people are here. Moderation consisting of ignoring those who are not worthy of response is easy and cheap. I do not understand why anyone needs to be replied to if
you don't want to reply to them. Nothing anyone says, can detract from the value of an idea. I believe it was Einstein who said, in response to a question about a book, "One Hundred Authors Against Einstein", asked, “Why 100? If I were wrong, one
would have been enough."

If the criticism is valid, not much you can do but accept that and adjust your ideas. If the criticism is not valid continue on with your work. No need to respond to the criticism in either case, if you don't like the source.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

Well, couldn't find a central forth one. Presumably with sensible people.

I believe you may want to establish a blog — something like „Entrepreneur's Blog
of Wayne Morellini” — where you'll publish all your ideas, where you'll run special
forums, moderating them — and of course we all go there to discuss it all in every
detail.
Such blog will attract all the sensible people like a magnet — think about this!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:

Why do they all come to the Forth group? We haven't heard from the
one who's name shall not be mentioned, in a while. I hope he's ok.

Yes, I have been wondering about him too.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 12:28:36 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 2:37:18 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:

I have Wayne morellini in the kill-file.
At least as you don't comment on the content snip it.

Except for this notorious Italian ALL CAPS spammer, I don't maintain a "killlist".
I love every miserable excuse for a human being in this group.
Including myself, of course.

Hans Bezemer

I don't have one either, except for that one you are talking about I think. But
when the same person keeps coming back, to try to post something bad just
after every thread, and many posts, sometimes I have. The good thing about
well moderated groups, is the moderators can see this. But I usually don't report
stuff, which I've learnt and is a bad idea, as they just are so deludedly unreasonable,
they just get worse and worse. It's usually just a few people, even several out of
tens of thousands that have nothing better to do than express themselves negatively
over other's space. You see them make tempting mistakes in other threads you could
comment on, but I usually don't. But, in return they like to make mistakes where there
isn't one in other's threads.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:52:31 AM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

Well, couldn't find a central forth one. Presumably with sensible people.

I believe you may want to establish a blog — something like „Entrepreneur's Blog
of Wayne Morellini” — where you'll publish all your ideas, where you'll run special
forums, moderating them — and of course we all go there to discuss it all in every
detail.
Such blog will attract all the sensible people like a magnet — think about this!

Or... You can post your thoughts here and simply ignore anyone who offends you. Many people are here. Moderation consisting of ignoring those who are not worthy of response is easy and cheap. I do not understand why anyone needs to be replied to if you

don't want to reply to them. Nothing anyone says, can detract from the value of an idea. I believe it was Einstein who said, in response to a question about a book, "One Hundred Authors Against Einstein", asked, “Why 100? If I were wrong, one would
have been enough."

If the criticism is valid, not much you can do but accept that and adjust your ideas. If the criticism is not valid continue on with your work. No need to respond to the criticism in either case, if you don't like the source.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Well then you Rick. Of course that desperately mistaken or you know it is. It is
damaging reputation of work and idea, of course it has to be answered. The Solution had always been the Killswitch on trolls in moderated forums. You are
basically, also, just suggesting, inviting anybody to come into any of your business meetings, and talk rubbish over you and wreck everything. It's funny how short sighted things get when it's not you under the boot, so to speak. Of course, by your manner, people might think that it's not your fault you keep coming into other people's spaces and doing odd stuff. By the best you act, it might seem that it is perfectly normal to do it. Wow, what a lesson! Of course That's the opposite of what is the truth. :)

Now, further fantasy diversion, is suggesting you start up a hidden of away from the community and deludedly post about community projects for nobody
to see it come too. Of course, the convention is you go to where the community is. After some activity you might then start a blog, or you might have it prepared
beforehand. So, again, a suggestion that undermines things, which any competent
person in business should know.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Here is another one for the skeptics.

A ttl misc computer:

https://youtu.be/_2uXqTi42LI

I think they.have got a version going into the 8mhz range.
Pretty interesting, without a CPU.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:39:05 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:52:31 AM UTC-4, Zbig wrote:

Presumably you've already tried moderated forums and it didn't go down well.

Well, couldn't find a central forth one. Presumably with sensible people.

I believe you may want to establish a blog — something like „Entrepreneur's Blog
of Wayne Morellini” — where you'll publish all your ideas, where you'll run special
forums, moderating them — and of course we all go there to discuss it all in every
detail.
Such blog will attract all the sensible people like a magnet — think about this!

Or... You can post your thoughts here and simply ignore anyone who offends you. Many people are here. Moderation consisting of ignoring those who are not worthy of response is easy and cheap. I do not understand why anyone needs to be replied to if

you don't want to reply to them. Nothing anyone says, can detract from the value of an idea. I believe it was Einstein who said, in response to a question about a book, "One Hundred Authors Against Einstein", asked, “Why 100? If I were wrong, one would
have been enough."

If the criticism is valid, not much you can do but accept that and adjust your ideas. If the criticism is not valid continue on with your work. No need to respond to the criticism in either case, if you don't like the source.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Well then you Rick. Of course that desperately mistaken or you know it is. It is
damaging reputation of work and idea, of course it has to be answered. The Solution had always been the Killswitch on trolls in moderated forums. You are
basically, also, just suggesting, inviting anybody to come into any of your business meetings, and talk rubbish over you and wreck everything. It's funny
how short sighted things get when it's not you under the boot, so to speak. Of
course, by your manner, people might think that it's not your fault you keep coming into other people's spaces and doing odd stuff. By the best you act, it
might seem that it is perfectly normal to do it. Wow, what a lesson! Of course
That's the opposite of what is the truth. :)

Now, further fantasy diversion, is suggesting you start up a hidden of away from the community and deludedly post about community projects for nobody
to see it come too. Of course, the convention is you go to where the community
is. After some activity you might then start a blog, or you might have it prepared
beforehand. So, again, a suggestion that undermines things, which any competent
person in business should know.

Can you explain to me how anything on the Internet is "your space"? Did you create the Internet? Did you create newgroups? Did you create Google Groups?

What is your malfunction that you get side tracked by each and every byte that chatters by in this group?

I need to start ignoring you. You are a tremendous waste of my time.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 9/09/2022 8:20 am, Paul Rubin wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:

Why do they all come to the Forth group? We haven't heard from the
one who's name shall not be mentioned, in a while. I hope he's ok.

Yes, I have been wondering about him too.

There must be an exit door to reality the rest of us haven't as yet
discovered :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:48:42 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 9/09/2022 8:20 am, Paul Rubin wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> writes:

Why do they all come to the Forth group? We haven't heard from the
one who's name shall not be mentioned, in a while. I hope he's ok.

Yes, I have been wondering about him too.

There must be an exit door to reality the rest of us haven't as yet discovered :)

Or the entry door :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:16:37 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
..
(Lorem Ipsum) ..

I created the thread and the project knowledge, idea and working out, instead of wrecking things.

.. ignoring you. You are a tremendous waste of my time..

Yep! Do you get sick of your intents not working out here?
But instead, you have to insist of answering replies out of sync
repeatedly.

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

Is this Rick Collin Arius?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:38:46 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:16:37 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
..
(Lorem Ipsum) ..

I created the thread and the project knowledge, idea and working out, instead of wrecking things.

.. ignoring you. You are a tremendous waste of my time..

Yep! Do you get sick of your intents not working out here?
But instead, you have to insist of answering replies out of sync
repeatedly.

What intents? I have no intents. I'm just replying to your posts, typically addressed to me. That seems natural and within the scope and purpose of this group. I've wrecked nothing. You simply can't seem to ignore things you are not interested in.
In fact, you repeatedly respond and even ask questions.

I think we know who has the problem.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

--+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 4:48:29 AM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Here is another one for the skeptics.

A ttl misc computer:

https://youtu.be/_2uXqTi42LI

I think they.have got a version going into the 8mhz range.
Pretty interesting, without a CPU.

Here is some of the more interesting things. After seeing the
above computer, the guy decided up make his own. The
Interesting thing is, he started with the aim of making a more
Commodore 64 machine, but using current parts and dumping
The custom graphics and sound chips. He then decided the
Vic20 architecture is simpler and the parts ate mostly available.
He wants to avoid fpga, and goes through and uses an
Gamedrino board (which has fpga). He decides it's not really to
His taste and gets a couple of guys to put forward custom
Fpga graphics solutions. He then is going around trying to decide
on an sound chip, but parts are hard to come by. But, he would have
been better off doing an complete FPGA design processor and
graphics and sound, as many of the pats are going to get
discontinued anyway, and why settle for second rate parts just
because they are available? He is not making a low energy system
so, fpga is perfectly acceptable and he could get his ,$50 board
maybe, at the size of a raspberry pi. It's ironic, that what he wants,
I imagine the Acorn Risc OS machines might have delivered. I'm
not certain if the Risc OS machines were poke and peek friendly,
but, they were simpler architectures compared to the Amiga.

I still say good work, and maybe this is better than the c65.


https://youtu.be/ayh0qebfD2g

https://youtu.be/sg-6Cjzzg8s

Looking at the colour pallet issues of the Commodore 64 (which they
use for text modes, it occured to me, they would have been much
better off having 5 bit colour pallet. The reason why, is to reproduce
a better colour gamut, display researchers came up with 4 and 5
primary colour schemes. My own research indicates 6-9+ colour
schemes, for lower energy displays (as the visual response peaks
at primary wavelengths different from the purer colour. One of the
issues with primary pixel performance, is that purer colours require a
lot more energy to make the pixel look as bright. Most of the colours
we use could be created by the higher visual response primary
wavelengths, which are simply the locations of maximum average
stimulation from the different primaries (virtually all colour is impure
to some extent, as the visual response in red green and blue, overlaps.
I actually came up with proposals to get past that and get the channels
in the visual system, to respond to only one primary sub range at a time. Increasing the colour gamut of human vision. It would get an interesting experiment, as these colours would not have been seen before outside
of unusual circumstances. But, it might not look as good as people
expect. Purer greens look a bit sickly to me. The exciting greens tend to
be the ones with some red channel.im them. That's what you see in
bright green leaves and grass.

Anyway, by adding yellow channel, to red green blue channels, and a
high intensity bit, you get 32 colours across 5 bits. You get two levels
of red green blue and yellow, and black and white, but you get the more visually stimulating bright florescent green, by mixing yellow and green, orange from mixing red and yellow, in 2 shades This is what the
Commodore 64 tries to do with light green and having orange and yellow,
bother colours which would have to be left out in a pure RGBI system.
that would go well with a 10 bit 1024 colour system as well, which would
be better than a 256 colour 8 bit colour scheme. Also 256 colour pallet entries helps render real life like pictures, by pallet entry swapping per display line, but 1024 pallet entries, would do a better job.

I imagine the reason there are old practical reasons we have 8 bit bytes,
but, a 10 bit word is much closer to base 10 for convenience, and a 10 bit Instruction address space is much better on an microcontroller than 8 bits.
The reason 10 bit might not be used, I imagine, is that you can't divide
10 bits evenly in half and quarters etc, with even numbers, there is no
middle dividing line except for 5 bits. But, ironically, if you go to 20 bits you
can divide by quarters. 20 bits is also a much better advanced address space than
16 bits for mcu's, and 30 and 40, and so forth, are much better fi
for bigger tasks than 32 and 64 bits address range etc. Back in the earlier 1980's
I think I would dream of doing a 20 bit machine, purely fur this reason. I forget if
I was onto the 10 bit thing by then, maybe not. Latter, I actually warned Chuck
about doin 20/21 bits in an future design, due to interfacing differences, and it
being unfamiliar to people. These days it doesn't matter so much, as you can put 20 bit wide main memory on chip, with a whole 20 bit architecture of other Integrated systems on chip. Still waiting for an modernised f21 or i21 like chips.
Maybe with 4 or more nodes on chip. Each chip could emulate a different range of integrated subsystems. You can see, one chip graphics, another sound and io,
and the third and fourth, code. Integrated psram die in package with chip, for each
processor, mounted on top, as misc is so low energy compared to high rates of dram memory access. :)

At least I've figured out wha sort of things have been giving my liver such a hard time,
and been doing a lot better off and on lately.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:44:02 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

What intents? I have no intents. I'm just replying to your posts, typically addressed to me. That seems natural and within the scope and purpose of this group. I've wrecked nothing. You simply can't seem to ignore things you are not interested in. In

fact, you repeatedly respond and even ask questions.

Ok, I'm responding to your thread - but that doesn't mean I address you specifically.

But can we return to bashing each others compilers and coding styles instead of discussing the character and behavior of the person visiting the ladies room like
a bunch of teenager girls during a sleepover?

I mean, I know most of you since decades. There is nothing new to explore there.
And yes, we have the pleasure of attracting the occasional gavino. Which is all right to me. Every usenet group should have its own local douche. I consider it to
be kind of a mascot.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:44:02 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
.

I think we know who has the problem.

= > Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

That's incredible. You can't help but keep replying here, but you try to "straw man" me (is that the correct term),
as the one doing it, who is the only one with the right to reply and address issues. It's just strange. Anyway,
I've got other issues to get onto while I'm doing better again

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:25:59 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:44:02 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

What intents? I have no intents. I'm just replying to your posts, typically addressed to me. That seems natural and within the scope and purpose of this group. I've wrecked nothing. You simply can't seem to ignore things you are not interested in. In

fact, you repeatedly respond and even ask questions.

Ok, I'm responding to your thread - but that doesn't mean I address you specifically.

But can we return to bashing each others compilers and coding styles instead of
discussing the character and behavior of the person visiting the ladies room like

.. Who is a man. Rick stay out of me and Han's ladies room!

Hans, this is not compiling and coding styles thread, this is about alternative historical progress,
become completely waste trolls time for the next 6 months, trying to not to let them
outpost moral people, and get the last post in.
..

I mean, I know most of you since decades. There is nothing new to explore there.
And yes, we have the pleasure of attracting the occasional gavino. Which is all
right to me. Every usenet group should have its own local douche. I consider it to
be kind of a mascot.

Which one?

Hans Bezemer

It's so tragic.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:37:55 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:44:02 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
.

I think we know who has the problem.

= > Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

That's incredible. You can't help but keep replying here, but you try to "straw man" me (is that the correct term),
as the one doing it, who is the only one with the right to reply and address issues. It's just strange. Anyway,
I've got other issues to get onto while I'm doing better again

LOL!!!! I love the fact that you complain about me replying to your post (after apparently complaining that I posted on your newsgroup), then claim I am the one perpetuating the reply chain.

How do you not understand that you can end this at any time... by not replying to me!!???

--

Rick C.

-+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:55:36 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:37:55 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:44:02 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
.

I think we know who has the problem.

= > Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

That's incredible. You can't help but keep replying here, but you try to "straw man" me (is that the correct term),
as the one doing it, who is the only one with the right to reply and address issues. It's just strange. Anyway,
I've got other issues to get onto while I'm doing better again

LOL!!!! I love the fact that you complain about me replying to your post (after apparently complaining that I posted on your newsgroup), then claim I am the one perpetuating the reply chain.

How do you not understand that you can end this at any time... by not replying to me!!???

--

Rick C.

Net completed, he ..."complain about me replying to your post (after apparently complaining that in..", .."the one perpetuating the reply chain." To the only one
with any legitimacy to reply In his own thread, at this stage. It's not like he owns others people's lives, or the group. Rather a character, he interferes negatively
In things that don't concern him, where he doesn't belong doing things he shouldn't do. But, some how he is the one who is right. Unfortunately I have to keep
running my own discussion as he keeps wasting his life running up un-needed debt, showing how he acts to the rest of the world, ruining my reputation and good
work, showing himself up trying to do it behind a veil of secrecy. One should not threaten the security of threads this way!

How does he "not understand that you can end this at any time... by not replying to me!!???".

He further claims it is my newsgroup, which I never ever claimed. A thread is not a newsgroup.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Is there any way to to do text animations?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Maybe I should have started a new account to distance myself from him, from the beginning.

Please also note, since I announced I wanted to do a forth microprocessor, he has started talking
about doing such a thing on a fpga. I talked about how hard it is to find a high a target chip
Category with fast enough ADC video sampling, and I see his website has announced a future
Up and coming 10 mega sample video ADC product. Rick Collins Arius. If I announce I have a better
Pogo stick design, what are you going do!

Please also check his webpages. A lot of broke links, including one that now points to a questionable
dating website, I thought that's not right, and closed it. I didn't find any information to validate the
claims of previous work doing FPGA microprocessors. It seems he is in a good position to give the
sort of advice my threads are looking for, but that, I'm more likely to help him instead.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:18:27 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

Maybe I should have started a new account to distance myself from him, from the beginning.

Or you can just stop replying to my posts. It's not really a big deal. If you don't talk to me, I'll have no reason to talk to you. Can't you understand this simple concept?

--

Rick C.

-++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 3:35:11 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:38:53 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

Lorem Ipsum

Once again, he pretends to not understand the reciprocal nature of things. He doesn't deserve

to reply, yet he keeps replying anyway. But of course, it's not the big guys fault, it's everybody
else he does it too, they are guilty of not letting him win and destroy. Sounds pretty delusional,
but bullying is that way. So, the umpteen time his lost, his reputation diminishing. Yet, cannot
understand if he stops we stop replying.

So this is not a commutative relationship? Only I can stop you from posting a reply to my post by not posting in the first place?

Wow! In some ways, you are worse than Hugh. Oh, crap, I said his name! At least it wasn't three times.

Hugh, Hugh, Hugh!

What if I reply to your post, but don't actually address anything you've said and am obviously not talking to you, really? Would you not reply to that?

It is eerie, having this much control over someone.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:38:53 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

Lorem Ipsum

Once again, he pretends to not understand the reciprocal nature of things. He doesn't deserve

to reply, yet he keeps replying anyway. But of course, it's not the big guys fault, it's everybody
else he does it too, they are guilty of not letting him win and destroy. Sounds pretty delusional,
but bullying is that way. So, the umpteen time his lost, his reputation diminishing. Yet, cannot
understand if he stops we stop replying.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 01:09:43 -0700 (PDT)
Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 3:35:11 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:38:53 PM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

Lorem Ipsum

Once again, he pretends to not understand the reciprocal nature of things. He doesn't deserve

to reply, yet he keeps replying anyway. But of course, it's not the big guys fault, it's everybody
else he does it too, they are guilty of not letting him win and destroy. Sounds pretty delusional,
but bullying is that way. So, the umpteen time his lost, his reputation diminishing. Yet, cannot
understand if he stops we stop replying.

So this is not a commutative relationship? Only I can stop you from posting a reply to my post by not posting in the first place?

Wow! In some ways, you are worse than Hugh. Oh, crap, I said his name! At least it wasn't three times.

Hugh, Hugh, Hugh!

What if I reply to your post, but don't actually address anything you've said and am obviously not talking to you, really? Would you not reply to that?

It is eerie, having this much control over someone.

How about you both take the time to post something on-topic, and drop the bickering?


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

How about you both take the time to post something on-topic, and drop the bickering?

Oh, it's rather normal, you know: https://youtu.be/PIb6AZdTr-A?t=61

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 3:49:41 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Hans, this is not compiling and coding styles thread, this is about alternative historical progress,

There are other groups for that. Try something in humanities.*

become completely waste trolls time for the next 6 months, trying to not to let them
outpost moral people, and get the last post in.

I'm a moral relativist. People who consider themselves "the moral minority" are just
stroking their (super)egos to an orgasm of pure moral superiority.

I mean, I know most of you since decades. There is nothing new to explore there.
And yes, we have the pleasure of attracting the occasional gavino. Which is all
right to me. Every usenet group should have its own local douche. I consider it to
be kind of a mascot.

Which one?

Are you proposing a popular vote or should people apply for the job?

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:31:54 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

If they want to chase crazy people having moral and mental meltdowns, doing what they
shouldn't, out, that's their business.

Who's having the mental breakdown here? I'm sure it's not me! ROFL!

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 6:51:56 PM UTC+10, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:

How about you both take the time to post something on-topic, and drop the bickering?

It's whatever the thread starter says the topic is in administration, it's the starters thread.
If they want to chase crazy people having moral and mental meltdowns, doing what they
shouldn't, out, that's their business. It's administration against wrecking. Don't ever equate
and validate the other side as right. They eventually will water 100,000 of their time, be be no
better off, maybe not even wiser, having cost far more to everybody else. But that is what
people who are a certain way and not winners, do! I don't see Steve Jobs or Bill.G come in
here and to this sort of stuff. They have got lives.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:37:48 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

When eliminating the tedious and boring pejorative statements (very little is left -
but hey, I'll work with it) I think you got a point here. I know of no other language
where most of the participants in Usenet maintain virtually all their own compilers.

Still, we have things to discuss and bicker about. That's the way it is. So cope with
it or get out. I don't think complaining about that will change our ways. No matter
what moral niche you intend to occupy.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against her. Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater community) stopped coming. Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Still, we have things to discuss and bicker about. That's the way it is. So cope with
it or get out. I don't think complaining about that will change our ways. No matter
what moral niche you intend to occupy.

Well then, get out! Take your own advice. You are just trolling to defend trolling behaviour,
Which is just immoral defeativenism?. So mostly Hot Air again, "but hey, I'll work with it"!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:45:52 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
her.

Hugh was against everybody. The entire world AFAIK. I don't think in the end anybody was
taking him serious anymore. Hugh's post were like chirping in the woods.

Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater

community) stopped coming.
I'm waiting for the public statements where they state their reasons for not coming anymore.
If you don't got them, it's conjecture.

Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

"Reasonable" according to what? You're not "reasonable" by any measure of my standards.
You're talking gibberish.

As usual in the Forth community, there are a few parties - each having their own ideas and
agendas. And that's what taking up most of the space over here nowadays. If you go back a
few decades you'll see a LOT more code being posted and discussed. And I miss that. It
makes this space a lot less useful.

Your thread is not part of the solution - it's actually part of the problem.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:38:28 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Who's having the mental breakdown here? I'm sure it's not me!..

ROFL!

Hans Bezemer

You know that sound like a dog barking?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:54:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Well then, get out! Take your own advice. You are just trolling to defend trolling behaviour,
Which is just immoral defeativenism?. So mostly Hot Air again, "but hey, I'll work with it"!

I'm not defending trolling. I'm just saying there are some elements here that display such
behavior and it's obviously how they're wired. No matter what you write will change that.

Now you can tolerate such posts and continue to discuss things or abandon what seems to
be one of the last forums to discuss Forth. And yes, from time to time even Hugh had things
that were worth a read. To me, it's a matter of pragmatism.

And yes, it has influenced by posting behavior as well. I remember very well I posted a small
lib for dynamic strings - and all I got back for that was a lengthy discussion on COMUS words.

Well, that was encouraging! I don't mind criticism on my code in the way:
- You could have done that better;
- If you add this it has even better value;
- You could have been more concise.

And yes, I even take pleasure in "Thank you! I loved that one". But you won't see me here
siting on my moral superior hill preaching to the natives. Since I don't like being preached
to I won't start preaching to others.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:47:52 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

You know that sound like a dog barking?

Like I always say to my wife when she suggests me to do a chore: WOOF!

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:54:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Well then, get out! Take your own advice.

Well, unfortunately it takes more than a guy like you to make me get out.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
her.

Pffft! Elizabeth was here for a long time with Hugh ranting and fuming nearly constantly. Did you know she was attacked in a parking garage? I don't recall that had anything to do with this group or Forth, just another nut job. Shows you don't want
to tick off nut jobs though.

Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater community) stopped coming. Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

No one is harassing you!!! If you want harassment, try sci.electronics.design! That group has some real winners.

The crux of the problem is that you can't understand that I'm simply having a conversation, which you perceive as harassment. What have I said that was harassing?

You literally are incapable of discussing anything technical, because you are overly sensitive and freak out at any negative comments. None of that is harassment. It's a technical discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you 100%? How can you
ever learn anything without disagreement?

At least these posts have been short.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:55:11 AM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:45:52 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
her.

Hugh was against everybody. The entire world AFAIK. I don't think in the end anybody was
taking him serious anymore. Hugh's post were like chirping in the woods.

He exchanged support with Ilya from somewhere in Russia I believe. Ilya was another one who was much more about criticizing than contributing. He wanted standards that didn't standardize anything. Forth should be free like the wind!

Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater

community) stopped coming.
I'm waiting for the public statements where they state their reasons for not coming anymore.
If you don't got them, it's conjecture.

I didn't know Chuck was ever in this group.

Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

"Reasonable" according to what? You're not "reasonable" by any measure of my standards.
You're talking gibberish.

Now, now... you are going to get the harassment label put on you.

As usual in the Forth community, there are a few parties - each having their own ideas and
agendas. And that's what taking up most of the space over here nowadays. If you go back a
few decades you'll see a LOT more code being posted and discussed. And I miss that. It
makes this space a lot less useful.

Your thread is not part of the solution - it's actually part of the problem.

Wow! Those are strong words. Hugh,.... I mean Wayne has made some technical posts. They are long and rambling and never discuss anything in sufficient detail that anyone else can really participate, but they are technical and they are posts.

--

Rick C.

++- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Another logic breakdown.

Morally preaching defence of bad immoral behaviour. Small fry equating questioning a routine as the same as trying to systematically undermine and take down entire projects.

Where's your big movement you are doing?

You do realise, many of these little projects I'm looking at, can bring them thousand or more
new members here?! He would be out numbered.

You know forth is so dieing, you can type misc forth etc into YouTube, and hardly get any
relevant result. That's a top interest forth technology. It just doesn't have the mind space. One video was something like: three
dieing languages you should not learn. Everybody managing their little island has mismanaged
forth.


Now, he's got you doing his work for him..

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:42:49 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
her.

Pffft! Elizabeth was here for a long time with Hugh ranting and fuming nearly constantly. Did you know she was attacked in a parking garage? I don't recall that had anything to do with this group or Forth, just another nut job. Shows you don't want to

tick off nut jobs though.

Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater community) stopped coming. Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

No one is harassing you!!! If you want harassment, try sci.electronics.design! That group has some real winners.

The crux of the problem is that you can't understand that I'm simply having a conversation, which you perceive as harassment. What have I said that was harassing?

You literally are incapable of discussing anything technical, because you are overly sensitive and freak out at any negative comments. None of that is harassment. It's a technical discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you 100%? How can you

ever learn anything without disagreement?

At least these posts have been short.
--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

Lol, what a nutter post. Irrationally not telling the truth and undermining is not responsible
reasonable rational technical discussion. You feign not understanding simple enough things
and use irrational logic. Don't come here taking out your frustrations. Important things are
happening and you simply aren't as important here. No use being jealous of things beyond you.
Do you see me going around jealous of the fastest runner on Earth, and I used to run fast, so
what, Il not important? You know Forth better tha myself, so what, it's not important. My
lack is not as important as their others abundance. You should learn that. You can't practically
creatively design as well, get used to it, rather than try to win at things other than what you are
good in. You only look smaller and smaller, and more and more petty. You bring doing this
sort of stuff for years, but since covid, you have gone off the wall. One got a local guy here, who tries this stuff and went off during covid. You don't impress.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:11:52 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:42:49 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
her.

Pffft! Elizabeth was here for a long time with Hugh ranting and fuming nearly constantly. Did you know she was attacked in a parking garage? I don't recall that had anything to do with this group or Forth, just another nut job. Shows you don't want

to tick off nut jobs though.

Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater community) stopped coming. Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

No one is harassing you!!! If you want harassment, try sci.electronics.design! That group has some real winners.

The crux of the problem is that you can't understand that I'm simply having a conversation, which you perceive as harassment. What have I said that was harassing?

You literally are incapable of discussing anything technical, because you are overly sensitive and freak out at any negative comments. None of that is harassment. It's a technical discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you 100%? How can you

ever learn anything without disagreement?

At least these posts have been short.
--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

Lol, what a nutter post. Irrationally not telling the truth and undermining is not responsible
reasonable rational technical discussion. You feign not understanding simple enough things
and use irrational logic. Don't come here taking out your frustrations. Important things are
happening and you simply aren't as important here. No use being jealous of things beyond you.
Do you see me going around jealous of the fastest runner on Earth, and I used to run fast, so
what, Il not important? You know Forth better tha myself, so what, it's not important. My
lack is not as important as their others abundance. You should learn that. You can't practically
creatively design as well, get used to it, rather than try to win at things other than what you are
good in. You only look smaller and smaller, and more and more petty. You bring doing this
sort of stuff for years, but since covid, you have gone off the wall. One got a local guy here, who tries this stuff and went off during covid. You don't impress.

Yes, definitely another Hugh, but without quite so much vitriol and with nowhere near the technical ability. You could say a lot about Hugh, but you could never say he was not technically gifted.

I can't figure out why, someone who says he has a purpose here, is so easily distracted from that purpose. Why he would rather post whiny, complaining posts that have no value to anyone, and detract from his own purposes?

Very strange. He certainly has that in common with Hugh.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:50:30 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Another logic breakdown.

I don't think so. Not before you analyze the hell out of my ramblings, use the proper jargon
(yes, logic has its own perfectly defined concepts) and apply the proper rules. As a matter
of fact, if I apply the rules of "Graham triangle of disagreement", you don't rise out of the
most primitive levels mentioned there.

Morally preaching defense of bad immoral behavior. Small fry equating questioning a
routine as the same as trying to systematically undermine and take down entire projects.

As I said - I'm not much of a moralist. I'm just pointing out the futility of your ramblings.
And where have I "systematically undermine and take down entire projects"?

If I criticize I always point out what is lacking there. I never come along without a valid
argument (yes, I keep an eye on "Graham triangle of disagreement"). I've often even offered
help for those things I find lacking.

BTW, if someone has to complain about "systematically undermine and take down a project"
it should be me. 4tH was called an "abomination" by some when it came out - and was
systematically boycotted by some sites for quite some time.

You know what? I couldn't care less. I was having so much fun scratching that itch, that I
could never be persuaded to give it up. No matter who thought what. When I've made up
my mind, I simply ignore what people think. It's irrelevant in my teleology.

Where's your big movement you are doing?

Read my lips: I - DON'T - CARE. You could all be programming in Java, I'd STILL be doing my
thing. Even if any of my projects were really taking off, I wasn't planning for that. It took me
three years before I put out any code. Basically because I got tired of mailing copies.

You do realise, many of these little projects I'm looking at, can bring them thousand or more
new members here?! He would be out numbered.

Again - do your thing. I don't care. I'm not doing this because I expect a place in heaven or
generations honoring my achievements. I do what I do because I like doing it.

But be my guest - prove your point. Words are cheap.

You know forth is so dieing, you can type misc forth etc into YouTube, and hardly get any
relevant result.

After all this - do you really expect an answer from me?

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:50:30 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Another logic breakdown.

I don't think so. Not before you analyze the hell out of my ramblings, use the proper jargon
(yes, logic has its own perfectly defined concepts) and apply the proper rules. As a matter
of fact, if I apply the rules of "Graham triangle of disagreement", you don't rise out of the
most primitive levels mentioned there.

Morally preaching defense of bad immoral behavior. Small fry equating questioning a
routine as the same as trying to systematically undermine and take down entire projects.

As I said - I'm not much of a moralist. I'm just pointing out the futility of your ramblings.
And where have I "systematically undermine and take down entire projects"?

If I criticize I always point out what is lacking there. I never come along without a valid
argument (yes, I keep an eye on "Graham triangle of disagreement"). I've often even offered
help for those things I find lacking.

BTW, if someone has to complain about "systematically undermine and take down a project"
it should be me. 4tH was called an "abomination" by some when it came out - and was
systematically boycotted by some sites for quite some time.

You know what? I couldn't care less. I was having so much fun scratching that itch, that I
could never be persuaded to give it up. No matter who thought what. When I've made up
my mind, I simply ignore what people think. It's irrelevant in my teleology.

Where's your big movement you are doing?

Read my lips: I - DON'T - CARE. You could all be programming in Java, I'd STILL be doing my
thing. Even if any of my projects were really taking off, I wasn't planning for that. It took me
three years before I put out any code. Basically because I got tired of mailing copies.

You do realise, many of these little projects I'm looking at, can bring them thousand or more
new members here?! He would be out numbered.

Again - do your thing. I don't care. I'm not doing this because I expect a place in heaven or
generations honoring my achievements. I do what I do because I like doing it.

But be my guest - prove your point. Words are cheap.

You know forth is so dieing, you can type misc forth etc into YouTube, and hardly get any
relevant result.

After all this - do you really expect an answer from me?

Hans Bezemer

I'm starting to think this guy has neurological issues that cause him to behave this way. He seems technically capable, but not able to express his ideas in a coherent manner. Then he also engages in pointless debate and doesn't understand when people
point out he is free to ignore the pointless comments he is responding to.

That really does remind me of Hugh, but without Hugh's other insanities, like hating Jews.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:09:53 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:11:52 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 1:42:49 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 8:45:52 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:37:48 PM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

Man, I've been in collaborative projects before, even with what is termed "rat bags",
but you guys just don't get it. I know Forth attracts loners, but the statements here,
show no idea.

I notice Elizabeth stopped coming after some person was waxing negative against
her.

Pffft! Elizabeth was here for a long time with Hugh ranting and fuming nearly constantly. Did you know she was attacked in a parking garage? I don't recall that had anything to do with this group or Forth, just another nut job. Shows you don't want

to tick off nut jobs though.

Chuck and Jecel (now there's a real multi talented gentleman, doing stuff fyrbtjr greater community) stopped coming. Only some of the really reasonable seem to be left, like Stephen
and me. I don't know how long that will last, with the harrassment going on here.

No one is harassing you!!! If you want harassment, try sci.electronics.design! That group has some real winners.

The crux of the problem is that you can't understand that I'm simply having a conversation, which you perceive as harassment. What have I said that was harassing?

You literally are incapable of discussing anything technical, because you are overly sensitive and freak out at any negative comments. None of that is harassment. It's a technical discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you 100%? How can

you ever learn anything without disagreement?

At least these posts have been short.
--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

Lol, what a nutter post. Irrationally not telling the truth and undermining is not responsible
reasonable rational technical discussion. You feign not understanding simple enough things
and use irrational logic. Don't come here taking out your frustrations. Important things are
happening and you simply aren't as important here. No use being jealous of things beyond you.
Do you see me going around jealous of the fastest runner on Earth, and I used to run fast, so
what, Il not important? You know Forth better tha myself, so what, it's not important. My
lack is not as important as their others abundance. You should learn that. You can't practically
creatively design as well, get used to it, rather than try to win at things other than what you are
good in. You only look smaller and smaller, and more and more petty. You bring doing this
sort of stuff for years, but since covid, you have gone off the wall. One got a local guy here, who tries this stuff and went off during covid. You don't impress.

Yes, definitely another Hugh, but without quite so much vitriol and with nowhere near the technical ability. You could say a lot about Hugh, but you could never say he was not technically gifted.

I can't figure out why, someone who says he has a purpose here, is so easily distracted from that purpose. Why he would rather post whiny, complaining posts that have no value to anyone, and detract from his own purposes?

Very strange. He certainly has that in common with Hugh.
--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)
+++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Try to be genuine.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:35:36 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:50:30 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Another logic breakdown.

I don't think so. Not before you analyze the hell out of my ramblings, use the proper jargon
(yes, logic has its own perfectly defined concepts) and apply the proper rules. As a matter
of fact, if I apply the rules of "Graham triangle of disagreement", you don't rise out of the
most primitive levels mentioned there.

You are just moralizing about using rules, not realising.

Ever hear the term bringing a k... to a g.. fight?

That's bad english though.

Morally preaching defense of bad immoral behavior. Small fry equating questioning a
routine as the same as trying to systematically undermine and take down entire projects.

As I said - I'm not much of a moralist. I'm just pointing out the futility of your ramblings.

The above proves differently.

And where have I "systematically undermine and take down entire projects"?

Again you are not reading and deducing properly, plus the inflexible thinking. Nobody said or play that you do such.

If I criticize I always point out what is lacking there. I never come along without a valid
argument (yes, I keep an eye on "Graham triangle of disagreement"). I've often even offered
help for those things I find lacking.

Mirror! You don't!

BTW, if someone has to complain about "systematically undermine and take down a project"
it should be me. 4tH was called an "abomination" by some when it came out - and was
systematically boycotted by some sites for quite some time.

Why? It's hardly of much interestsl, and that woo woo! Music you have on your videos is
disturbing! Forth OS was an example of a really significant project.

You know what? I couldn't care less. I was having so much fun scratching that itch, that I
could never be persuaded to give it up. No matter who thought what. When I've made up
my mind, I simply ignore what people think. It's irrelevant in my teleology.

Ignore logic?

Where's your big movement you are doing?

Read my lips: I - DON'T - CARE. You could all be programming in Java, I'd STILL be doing my
thing. Even if any of my projects were really taking off, I wasn't planning for that. It took me
three years before I put out any code. Basically because I got tired of mailing copies.

Three years of people going around accusing you of doing nothing, when you were the only
one doing something. I hear you.

You do realise, many of these little projects I'm looking at, can bring them thousand or more
new members here?! He would be out numbered.

Again - do your thing. I don't care. I'm not doing this because I expect a place in heaven or
generations honoring my achievements. I do what I do because I like doing it.

You know what that sounds like? What about growing and benefiting the community,
Instead of coming into other people's threads and: me me me!

I come across people with a bent because against what they can not do themselves.

But be my guest - prove your point..

I just did!

Words are cheap.

Your words were!

You know forth is so dieing, you can type misc forth etc into YouTube, and hardly get any
relevant result.

After all this - do you really expect an answer from me?

Inflexible and getting it wrong, who cares?

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:56:34 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:22:46 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

So, your arguments and comments are pointless, you finally admit it! That's big of you. And of course, you are free to stop those pointless disruptive comments at any time, and go Amy hassle somebody else.

Maybe he's just compulsive about making the last post?

Yes, you seem to be. Say something valid!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:22:46 PM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

So, your arguments and comments are pointless, you finally admit it! That's big of you. And of course, you are free to stop those pointless disruptive comments at any time, and go Amy hassle somebody else.

Maybe he's just compulsive about making the last post?

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

---+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:54:25 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

..

Hans Bezemer

..

I'm starting to think this guy has neurological issues that cause him to behave this way. He seems technically capable, but not able to express his ideas in a coherent manner. Then he also engages in pointless debate and doesn't understand when people

point out he is free to ignore the pointless comments he is responding to.

So, your arguments and comments are pointless, you finally admit it! That's big of you. And of course, you are free to stop those pointless disruptive comments at any time, and go Amy hassle somebody else.

I imagine Hugh might like to see this.

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

Richard Collins Arius.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/09/2022 1:50 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:43:11 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Another logic breakdown.

Morally preaching defence of bad immoral behaviour. Small fry equating questioning a routine as the same as trying to systematically undermine and take down entire projects.

Where's your big movement you are doing?

You do realise, many of these little projects I'm looking at, can bring them thousand or more
new members here?! He would be out numbered.

You know forth is so dieing, you can type misc forth etc into YouTube, and hardly get any
relevant result. That's a top interest forth technology. It just doesn't have the mind space. One video was something like: three
dieing languages you should not learn. Everybody managing their little island has mismanaged
forth.

Now, he's got you doing his work for him..

That's rather biblical. 'I can bring Forth a thousand and more new members if only it will
bow down and worship me.'

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:04:50 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

Now, he's got you doing his work for him..

That's rather biblical. 'I can bring Forth a thousand and more new members if only it will
bow down and worship me.'

You are a very sick individual, you want forth to bow down and worship you, I'm just content with
getting new people involved to revive the community. Forth is not really that overwhelming,
It's really the minimum reverse polish stack notation processing that's interesting, you can put
whatever compatable computer programming language on that that you like, it does not have to
be Forth. But Forth is the best tool at the moment to get a movement of optimised stuff done
on that sort of processor, and there is a simplified x86 compatible Forth that allows source
code sharing with PC's, colorforth. It allows a virtual code to be made that can transfer to
machine code in both environments. Simple, cheap effective.

Remember, realistic delusions of work that can be done, before your delusions of grandeur.
That's how business people have often done it. My father did outstanding work, not because
he was there, but because he could get there. Critic's here don't seem to be able to do any
outstanding work, at all, because they can't seem to figure out how to design it. They seem
to completely miss this first step, not being able to do it, to set up the quality of work going
forwards, and by quality design. Sure they might have done this or that, but I would be
shocked if there were not a lot of people who did this stuff a lot better and made a lot more
success (does making anything at home necessarily prove you know everything about
making even that type of thing, no!). I've never met a truely successful person who thinks like
these people, even the mad ones I know (and the guys they taunt around here are more like that, the sort of people who could do these things way better than themselves. Which just really pathologically irritates them. As they can't achieve much but
come here to tear at people. ). Guess what the best guys are like?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:49:38 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I'm just content with
getting new people involved to revive the community.

I can imagine. But where are they?

Forth is not really that overwhelming.

It wasn't intended to be. Quite the opposite.

But Forth is the best tool at the moment to get a movement of optimised stuff done
on that sort of processor.

Which sort of processor? Specify. Because now (since there is no processor to compare
it is) your entire argument becomes gibberish.

and there is a simplified x86 compatible Forth that allows source
code sharing with PC's, colorforth. It allows a virtual code to be made that can transfer to
machine code in both environments. Simple, cheap effective.

Source sharing is something that can be done with MOST portable Forths. Nothing special
there. Some images may be portable across platforms. I know 4tH's images are (although
it depends on wordsize and character standard). I've run 4tH images across ARM, Mipsel and Intel;
MS-DOS, Windows, OS/X, Android, Coherent and Linux. So that's not something special.

My father did outstanding work, not because he was there, but because he could get there.

I don't intend to say bad things about your father, but in my world there are only two kinds of
people: those who do and those who don't. Trying doesn't count.

Critic's here don't seem to be able to do any outstanding work, at all, because they can't
seem to figure out how to design it.

By whose standards? Yours? Your not even capable of expressing these "standards" in an
intelligible form! Let alone usable.

I've never met a truely successful person who thinks like

"Truly" is written without an "e".

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 11:56:40 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I don't think so. Not before you analyze the hell out of my ramblings, use the proper jargon
(yes, logic has its own perfectly defined concepts) and apply the proper rules. As a matter
of fact, if I apply the rules of "Graham triangle of disagreement", you don't rise out of the
most primitive levels mentioned there.

You are just moralizing about using rules, not realising.

No. Just applying standards, that's all. You may want to start a discussion about the validity
and consistency of "Grahams triangle of disagreement" if you wish, but it's just a refelction
of generally accepted debate rules. So good luck with that. Morality has nothing to do with it.
It's just about the strength of your argument

Ever hear the term bringing a k... to a g.. fight?

Yes. Nothing cuts like the rules of logic.

That's bad english though.

I haven't mentioned your constant flow of spelling errors for a reason. My excuse is that
I'm not a native speaker. What's yours?

Morally preaching defense of bad immoral behavior. Small fry equating questioning a
routine as the same as trying to systematically undermine and take down entire projects.

As I said - I'm not much of a moralist. I'm just pointing out the futility of your ramblings.

The above proves differently.

No it doesn't. And if you were a really good debater, you would have put forward some
compelling arguments for that. They're lacking and dearly missed.

Mirror! You don't!

I actually did.

You know what? I couldn't care less. I was having so much fun scratching that itch, that I
could never be persuaded to give it up. No matter who thought what. When I've made up
my mind, I simply ignore what people think. It's irrelevant in my teleology.

Ignore logic?

If people like you were expressing themselves logically, possibly I would. Not since you don't,
I don't either.

Where's your big movement you are doing?

Read my lips: I - DON'T - CARE. You could all be programming in Java, I'd STILL be doing my
thing. Even if any of my projects were really taking off, I wasn't planning for that. It took me
three years before I put out any code. Basically because I got tired of mailing copies.

Three years of people going around accusing you of doing nothing, when you were the only
one doing something. I hear you.

I wasn't saying that. Nobody was accusing anybody of anything. I was just doing my thing,
doing an occasional post and to my surprise people wanted a part from that. Learn how
to dissect text. It might be useful to you in every day life.

You do realise, many of these little projects I'm looking at, can bring them thousand or more
new members here?! He would be out numbered.

Again - do your thing. I don't care. I'm not doing this because I expect a place in heaven or
generations honoring my achievements. I do what I do because I like doing it.

You know what that sounds like? What about growing and benefiting the community,
Instead of coming into other people's threads and: me me me!

I don't care how it sounds like! LOL! ;-) I don't have any lofty goals - but everybody may have
and use anything I produce. That's a centuries old, solid scientific principle. I allows for people
to build upon that, just like I'm building on the knowledge of others.

I come across people with a bent because against what they can not do themselves.

Good for you. I meet lots of different people. Some have ideas I admire, other haven't had an
original thought in their lives.

But be my guest - prove your point..

I just did!

You didn't. Where is you "community of thousands"?

Words are cheap.

Your words were!

If words are cheap, every bodies words are cheap. That's a tautology. It bears some
connections with deduction and set theory.

After all this - do you really expect an answer from me?

Inflexible and getting it wrong, who cares?

Inflexible and proud of it. Getting it wrong is in the eye of the beholder. Or after applying
generally accepted scientific standards and principles.

Hans Bezemer

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On 12/09/2022 7:04 pm, Hans Bezemer wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:49:38 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I'm just content with
getting new people involved to revive the community.

I can imagine. But where are they?

Over the hill just waiting for the signal to come.

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On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:50:45 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 11:56:40 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I don't think so. Not before you analyze the hell out of my ramblings, use the proper jargon
(yes, logic has its own perfectly defined concepts) and apply the proper rules. As a matter
of fact, if I apply the rules of "Graham triangle of disagreement", you don't rise out of the
most primitive levels mentioned there.

You are just moralizing about using rules, not realising.

No. Just applying standards, that's all. You may want to start a discussion about the validity
and consistency of "Grahams triangle of disagreement" if you wish, but it's just a refelction
of generally accepted debate rules. So good luck with that. Morality has nothing to do with it.
It's just about the strength of your argument

Unreal, you can't see the contradictions in that logic!

Ever hear the term bringing a k... to a g.. fight?

Yes. Nothing cuts like the rules of logic.

But you can't see the logic?

That's bad english though.

I haven't mentioned your constant flow of spelling errors for a reason. My excuse is that
I'm not a native speaker. What's yours?

A sick man with brain damage and typos, getting picked on by a non-native speaker about grammar, but has trouble understanding it himself. Obviously not really considering the term "the living language" affecting the death of previous language, also.

Ramblings deleted.

Your problem is you debate very simply, despite what you claim, not understanding deeper contexts and relationships which price you wrong. This is a common delusion along technics
which higher thinkers look down upon. It's child like!

If people like you were expressing themselves logically, possibly I would. Not since you don't,

I don't either.

But I did.

Where's your big movement you are doing?

Read my lips: I - DON'T - CARE. ...

.

You know what that sounds like? What about growing and benefiting the community,
Instead of coming into other people's threads and: me me me!

I don't care how it sounds like! LOL!...

..

I come across people with a bent because against what they can not do themselves.

Good for you. I meet lots of different people. Some have ideas I admire, other haven't had an
original thought in their lives.

Yes.

But be my guest - prove your point..

I just did!

..

Words are cheap.

Your words were!

If words are cheap, every bodies words are cheap. That's a tautology. It bears some
connections with deduction and set theory.

Kool-aid.

Some words are more correct, true, and expansive. Some are overly regimented, weak, and empty.

After all this - do you really expect an answer from me?

Inflexible and getting it wrong, who cares?

Inflexible and proud of it. Getting it wrong is in the eye of the beholder..

That's actually wrong.

Hans Bezemer

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On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:05:17 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Unreal, you can't see the contradictions in that logic!

You can see them very well - and although there are many branches of logic - yours
is DEFINITELY not part of that realm. It's a kind of "Waynes world"..

I'm not a native speaker. What's yours?

A sick man with brain damage and typos, getting picked on by a non-native speaker
about grammar, but has trouble understanding it himself. Obviously not really considering the term "the living language" affecting the death of previous language, also.

Aaaah, you're all of a sudden a victim now? Well, let me give you one piece of advise, though:
if you're not in the best of shape, choose your fights carefully. There is a reason lots of other
people avoid the keyboard like the plague when they're drunk.

Your problem is you debate very simply, despite what you claim, not understanding deeper
contexts and relationships which price you wrong. This is a common delusion along technics
which higher thinkers look down upon. It's child like!

Well, if you're unable or unwilling to communicate these "deeper contexts and relationships"
clearly and properly, it's a safe assumption they're actually not there.

Inflexible and proud of it. Getting it wrong is in the eye of the beholder..

That's actually wrong.

If you eliminate the second part of the statement, it's at least incomplete. We can agree on that
one. But I assume science is not a very important part of your life. You've given me no indication
it actually is.

Hans Bezemer

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:09:44 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 3:05:17 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Unreal, you can't see the contradictions in that logic!

You can see them very well - and although there are many branches of logic - yours
is DEFINITELY not part of that realm. It's a kind of "Waynes world"..

I'm not a native speaker. What's yours?

A sick man with brain damage and typos, getting picked on by a non-native speaker
about grammar, but has trouble understanding it himself. Obviously not really
considering the term "the living language" affecting the death of previous language, also.

Aaaah, you're all of a sudden a victim now? Well, let me give you one piece of advise, though:
if you're not in the best of shape, choose your fights carefully. There is a reason lots of other
people avoid the keyboard like the plague when they're drunk.

You known this for a long time. You asked, you git an answer. But still you wrongly reply.

Your problem is you debate very simply, despite what you claim, not understanding deeper
contexts and relationships which price you wrong. This is a common delusion along technics
which higher thinkers look down upon. It's child like!

Well, if you're unable or unwilling to communicate these "deeper contexts and relationships"

No, grow up and start reading properly. It's not up tor to waste my time trying to teach you,
when you are such a person. As much as I can explain, you actually need to take time thinking about contexts and meanings of words. Learn to fish.
..

Inflexible and proud of it. Getting it wrong is in the eye of the beholder..

That's actually wrong.

If you eliminate the second part of the statement, it's at least incomplete.

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what it, what ever
the eye of the observer is.

Hans Bezemer

You had better read my other reply, and stop wasting my time.

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On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:04:38 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:49:38 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I'm just content with
getting new people involved to revive the community.

I can imagine. But where are they?

Well silly people are interfering rather than getting involved, and trying to take and wreck my
time. I have enough stuff to get through, and people trying to rob my life, to get too. This post is just the preliminary discussion stage, some research, before coming back for planning, preparation and deeper design factors, if there, further
planning and preparation and then implementation. Of course, I've got to clear my ste first, unless somebody else wants to do
something.

Forth is not really that overwhelming.

It wasn't intended to be. Quite the opposite.

But Forth is the best tool at the moment to get a movement of optimised stuff done
on that sort of processor.

Which sort of processor? Specify...

This is insane, we have been discussing Misc and Forth processors. This is what I'm
talking about, even though the the link is clearly there from current and past discussions, you
don't see it. You think you are winning debates because you can't see the sophisticated
contextual meaning, which all advanced thinking and reasoning works on. The text books are
Often written after the work of these people, and may be written too simply. The certain other
person might have an understanding of this a bit, which is why they play with it, which is
obvious to those with this ability (stuff all to good degree, even in professions, their the good
ones).

More stuff deleted because you don't understand what the clear information meant, but launch into attack mode.

..but in my world there are only two kinds of
people: those who do and those who don't.

People who do badly or plan and do better. That's a difference between small and large
success. The latter often requires a lot of effort planning and time and/or money. We are
probably not talking about anything you are familiar. When I was young and naive, I thought
like what you are saying. But now realise how limited that was.

..

By whose standards? Yours? Your not even capable of expressing these "standards" in an
intelligible form! Let alone usable.

It's not me. I've done work beyond anything here, before brain damage. So yes, I can judge
and get new advanced features and changes in major products, and some requested consultations.

I've never met a truely successful person who thinks like

"Truly" is written without an "e".

Hans Bezemer

Sorry, thanks for that. Using a historical form again, stemming out of middle english.
Note, it doesn't follow the rule. Why, I don't know. Hopefully not the American influence of
dropping spelling for lost sounds again. It maybe it dropped from common usage in the
language before that for similar reasons l. I personally don't like that, as those lost sounds
In words had meanings, which allowed us to distinguish between the spoken word, and
meanings in words. In life are you saying Red, read, and writing, are you saying read or read.
When I trted to design a denotative logical language structure, I was designing an alphabet system which described possible legitimate sounds.

This dumbing down of language has been going on for thousands of years. Some ancient languages had a lot more sophistication, even if spoken like Yoda. In matter of fact, I still mixup sentences a bit like closer to these languages.

Truly.

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On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:44:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

You known this for a long time. You asked, you git an answer. But still you wrongly reply.

Yeah, I know. But I don't do excuses.

No, grow up and start reading properly. It's not up tor to waste my time trying to teach you,
when you are such a person. As much as I can explain, you actually need to take time
thinking about contexts and meanings of words. Learn to fish.

If you're winning a debate, your ego is stroked. If you lose a debate, you have learned
something. Don't take that away from me. But you're a BAD teacher anyways, so I won't keep up my hope.

BTW, I don't THINK about the meaning of words - I look them up. There is a generally
accepted definition for almost anything. I LOVE definitions! Context has very little
sense if you don't PROVIDE contexts.

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what it, what ever
the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

You had better read my other reply, and stop wasting my time.

You're wasting your time. I'm just having fun.

Hans Bezemer

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On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:54:37 PM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:44:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

You known this for a long time. You asked, you git an answer. But still you wrongly reply.

Yeah, I know. But I don't do excuses.

No, grow up and start reading properly. It's not up tor to waste my time trying to teach you,
when you are such a person. As much as I can explain, you actually need to take time
thinking about contexts and meanings of words. Learn to fish.

If you're winning a debate, your ego is stroked. If you lose a debate, you have learned
something. Don't take that away from me. But you're a BAD teacher anyways, so I
won't keep up my hope.

BTW, I don't THINK about the meaning of words - I look them up. There is a generally
accepted definition for almost anything. I LOVE definitions! Context has very little
sense if you don't PROVIDE contexts.

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what it, what ever
the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

You had better read my other reply, and stop wasting my time.

You're wasting your time. I'm just having fun.

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:37:12 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

Yeah. Tell that to a moral relativist. He'll be really impressed.

Hans Bezemer

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:54:37 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:44:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

You known this for a long time. You asked, you git an answer. But still you wrongly reply.

Yeah, I know. But I don't do excuses.

No, grow up and start reading properly. It's not up tor to waste my time trying to teach you,
when you are such a person. As much as I can explain, you actually need to take time
thinking about contexts and meanings of words. Learn to fish.

If you're winning a debate, your ego is stroked. If you lose a debate, you have learned
something. Don't take that away from me. But you're a BAD teacher anyways, so I
won't keep up my hope.

BTW, I don't THINK about the meaning of words - I look them up. There is a generally
accepted definition for almost anything. I LOVE definitions! Context has very little
sense if you don't PROVIDE contexts.

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what it, what ever
the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

You had better read my other reply, and stop wasting my time.

You're wasting your time. I'm just having fun.

Hans Bezemer

Sorry, as with many of your pretend points, it's delusional. You are just not a good thinker,
otherwise you would realise that truth doesn't depend on the eye of the beholder, but contexts
do.

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:53:49 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:37:12 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

Yeah. Tell that to a moral relativist. He'll be really impressed.

Hans Bezemer

Do you people ever consider how delusional victimizers (and that tends to be what they are)
speak?

Very satisfied you know a foreign language and gramma, and look up definitions, or can wreck community benefit, and stroke your egos in appreciation. :!

I've got other commitments I need to attend to rather than teach how to behave and think.
Live on your selfingratiating, or be real men and help.

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On 12/09/2022 2:49 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:04:50 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

Now, he's got you doing his work for him..

That's rather biblical. 'I can bring Forth a thousand and more new members if only it will
bow down and worship me.'

You are a very sick individual, you want forth to bow down and worship you,

Who came here offering Forth a deal it couldn't refuse?

I'm just content with
getting new people involved to revive the community.

As I recall Jesus' response was 'Thanks, but no thanks.'

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:22:06 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:53:49 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:37:12 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

Yeah. Tell that to a moral relativist. He'll be really impressed.

Hans Bezemer

Do you people ever consider how delusional victimizers (and that tends to be what they are)
speak?

Very satisfied you know a foreign language and gramma, and look up definitions, or can wreck community benefit, and stroke your egos in appreciation. :!

I've got other commitments I need to attend to rather than teach how to behave and think.
Live on your selfingratiating, or be real men and help.

I think I'm a helpful person, but I won't subscribe to your rules. You do what you do best.
And you can judge me till eternity, I don't care. It's futile. I've always lived by my own rules and will
Continue to do so - no matter what anyone says.

Hans Bezemer

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:04:43 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:54:37 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:44:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

You known this for a long time. You asked, you git an answer. But still you wrongly reply.

Yeah, I know. But I don't do excuses.

No, grow up and start reading properly. It's not up tor to waste my time trying to teach you,
when you are such a person. As much as I can explain, you actually need to take time
thinking about contexts and meanings of words. Learn to fish.

If you're winning a debate, your ego is stroked. If you lose a debate, you have learned
something. Don't take that away from me. But you're a BAD teacher anyways, so I
won't keep up my hope.

BTW, I don't THINK about the meaning of words - I look them up. There is a generally
accepted definition for almost anything. I LOVE definitions! Context has very little
sense if you don't PROVIDE contexts.

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what it, what ever
the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

You had better read my other reply, and stop wasting my time.

You're wasting your time. I'm just having fun.

Hans Bezemer

Sorry, as with many of your pretend points, it's delusional. You are just not a good thinker,
otherwise you would realise that truth doesn't depend on the eye of the beholder, but contexts
do.

Moral relativism is a valid philosophical stance. The proof for it is quite simple:
There is no moral framework that delivers a generally accepted outcome for every
possible moral question. 'Truth' is an even more problematic concept. It does not
equal 'reality' - otherwise nothing in the past could possibly be true.

Truth certainly doesn't enter moral question without an adequate and widely accepted ethical framework. And I don't think you want to subscribe to moral relativism.

And since you don't provide contexts, just statements without any justification that discussion becomes moot in this context.

Hans Bezemer

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:27:16 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 12/09/2022 2:49 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 12:04:50 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

Now, he's got you doing his work for him..

That's rather biblical. 'I can bring Forth a thousand and more new members if only it will
bow down and worship me.'

You are a very sick individual, you want forth to bow down and worship you,

Who came here offering Forth a deal it couldn't refuse?

Did he do that as well?

I'm just content with
getting new people involved to revive the community.

Do, I remember you?

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 4:44:19 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:04:43 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:54:37 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 4:44:33 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

You known this for a long time. You asked, you git an answer. But still you wrongly reply.

Yeah, I know. But I don't do excuses.

No, grow up and start reading properly. It's not up tor to waste my time trying to teach you,
when you are such a person. As much as I can explain, you actually need to take time
thinking about contexts and meanings of words. Learn to fish.

If you're winning a debate, your ego is stroked. If you lose a debate, you have learned
something. Don't take that away from me. But you're a BAD teacher anyways, so I
won't keep up my hope.

BTW, I don't THINK about the meaning of words - I look them up. There is a generally
accepted definition for almost anything. I LOVE definitions! Context has very little
sense if you don't PROVIDE contexts.

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what it, what ever
the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

You had better read my other reply, and stop wasting my time.

You're wasting your time. I'm just having fun.

Hans Bezemer

Sorry, as with many of your pretend points, it's delusional. You are just not a good thinker,
otherwise you would realise that truth doesn't depend on the eye of the beholder, but contexts
do.

Moral relativism is a valid philosophical stance. The proof for it is quite simple:
There is no moral framework that delivers a generally accepted outcome for every
possible moral question. 'Truth' is an even more problematic concept. It does not
equal 'reality' - otherwise nothing in the past could possibly be true.

Truth certainly doesn't enter moral question without an adequate and widely accepted ethical framework. And I don't think you want to subscribe to moral relativism.

And since you don't provide contexts, just statements without any justification
that discussion becomes moot in this context.

Hans Bezemer

My goodness that's idiotic.

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In article <c9f97ad2-7a76-4e01-bd92-511000db6d06n@googlegroups.com>, the.beez.speaks@gmail.com says...

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what

it, what ever

the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

Small point - is anyone aware of base '1' notation?

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 4:52:45 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:22:06 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:53:49 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:37:12 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

Yeah. Tell that to a moral relativist. He'll be really impressed.

Hans Bezemer

Do you people ever consider how delusional victimizers (and that tends to be what they are)
speak?

Very satisfied you know a foreign language and gramma, and look up definitions, or can wreck community benefit, and stroke your egos in appreciation. :!

I've got other commitments I need to attend to rather than teach how to behave and think.
Live on your selfingratiating, or be real men and help.

I think I'm a helpful person, but I won't subscribe to your rules. You do what you do best.
And you can judge me till eternity, I don't care. It's futile. I've always lived by my own rules and will
Continue to do so - no matter what anyone says.

Hans Bezemer

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

Now, Hans, please go away and chuck your domineering fit somewhere else. You have had and
continue to have, negliable benefit for people here. It's your fault you are in the wrong place
and can't be bothered to correctly interpret things, and regard even absolute facts as
relativistic. Which is not credible or scientific.

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On 13/09/2022 5:13 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

So there are limits to your generosity - meaning you pick and choose what's good for you?

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not
to sacrifice himself." - A. Solzhenitsyn

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 7:27:19 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 13/09/2022 5:13 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

So there are limits to your generosity - meaning you pick and choose what's good for you?

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself." - A. Solzhenitsyn

That is the wrong way around. The typing stuffed up again, have problems hitting keys even at times when I think I typed well.

Here DX, I'll clarify a bit:

That's what self centred selfish people say. Know enough of them, who I've got to help out
when they stuff up their lives. Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them, even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many) they usually
don't care to help.

So, it really doesn't matter what these two say now, I've already put enough time into them. Besides, all their really smart clients can see what has been done. One of them, seems to
have genuine mistaken beliefs. What can I say, maybe they will learn that moral relativism is
not the only thing which isn't black and white, and come around to a deeper knowledge.

They probably could do with reviewing the levels of learning, which the higher education system as a based upon. This thinking is very undergrad and rigid, but even then they should have been shown how the higher level works. But, this depends on
country. At university
here, they Indicated a higher perception. I'm amazed at what they even teach high school kids these days. Stuff totally beyond high school in my day, and things beyond my technical degree (though a fair bit would be useless).

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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 7:27:19 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

Actually, take a look at this. This guy is an actual intellectual and scientist.
Take a look at this at time stamps (from the beginning).

1:02:05
1:03:20

Particularly 1:03:38-1:04:04


https://youtu.be/4j5S_-MCWq4

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On 13/09/2022 8:27 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 7:27:19 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 13/09/2022 5:13 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

So there are limits to your generosity - meaning you pick and choose what's >> good for you?

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not >> to sacrifice himself." - A. Solzhenitsyn

That is the wrong way around. The typing stuffed up again, have problems hitting keys even at times when I think I typed well.

Here DX, I'll clarify a bit:

That's what self centred selfish people say. Know enough of them, who I've got to help out
when they stuff up their lives. Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them, even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many) they

usually don't care to help.

You say you've had to help self-centered selfish people. There's a good deal of
self if not resentment in that statement. Is that help - or self weighing up who
got what?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:26 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 4:52:45 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:22:06 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:53:49 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:37:12 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

Yeah. Tell that to a moral relativist. He'll be really impressed.

Hans Bezemer

Do you people ever consider how delusional victimizers (and that tends to be what they are)
speak?

Very satisfied you know a foreign language and gramma, and look up definitions, or can wreck community benefit, and stroke your egos in appreciation. :!

I've got other commitments I need to attend to rather than teach how to behave and think.
Live on your selfingratiating, or be real men and help.

I think I'm a helpful person, but I won't subscribe to your rules. You do what you do best.
And you can judge me till eternity, I don't care. It's futile. I've always lived by my own rules and will
Continue to do so - no matter what anyone says.

Hans Bezemer

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

Now, Hans, please go away and chuck your domineering fit somewhere else. You have had and
continue to have, negliable benefit for people here. It's your fault you are in the wrong place
and can't be bothered to correctly interpret things, and regard even absolute facts as
relativistic. Which is not credible or scientific.

What would happen if everyone who Wayne told to go away, actually went away? I think he'd have no one left to talk to.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

--++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 12:02:24 AM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 13/09/2022 8:27 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 7:27:19 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 13/09/2022 5:13 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

So there are limits to your generosity - meaning you pick and choose what's
good for you?

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not
to sacrifice himself." - A. Solzhenitsyn

That is the wrong way around. The typing stuffed up again, have problems hitting keys even at times when I think I typed well.

Here DX, I'll clarify a bit:

That's what self centred selfish people say. Know enough of them, who I've got to help out
when they stuff up their lives. Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them, even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many) they

usually don't care to help.

You say you've had to help self-centered selfish people. There's a good deal of
self if not resentment in that statement. Is that help - or self weighing up who
got what?

Strange! A summing up of fact and experience, in an academically contrasting manner (again, out of one of the academic levels). That I know what they are like and how obsessively self-centred they are. It doesn't matter how innocent you are, they don't
want to help, but expect help when they keep recklessly stuffing up things. Some resentment, they often can't put in minimal effort, during the rarer times I need help. Anyway, woke with my eyes burning skfncsmt.lrtp.goimg on eitjbthis conversation.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:08:16 AM UTC+2, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

In article <c9f97ad2-7a76-4e01...@googlegroups.com>,
the.bee...@gmail.com says...

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what

it, what ever

the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

Small point - is anyone aware of base '1' notation?

Yes - and it doesn't work for two reasons:
- first, the radix figure is NEVER part of the allowed figure set of that radix; 2 isn't part of binary (only 0 and 1),
8 isn't part of octal (0-7), A isn't part of decimal (0-9);
- second, the radix is always expressed as 10 under that radix (10 is 2 in binary, 8 in octal, 10 in decimal and 16 in hex).

So, radix 1 cannot contain a 1, only a zero. But it makes it also impossible to express 10 for
obvious reasons.

Radix 1? I don't think so.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 2:28:19 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:13:26 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 4:52:45 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:22:06 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:53:49 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 7:37:12 PM UTC+2, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

He will never understand that. He sees himself as a victim. So you must be the aggressor. Bad aggressor, bad!

Yeah. Tell that to a moral relativist. He'll be really impressed.

Hans Bezemer

Do you people ever consider how delusional victimizers (and that tends to be what they are)
speak?

Very satisfied you know a foreign language and gramma, and look up definitions, or can wreck community benefit, and stroke your egos in appreciation. :!

I've got other commitments I need to attend to rather than teach how to behave and think.
Live on your selfingratiating, or be real men and help.

I think I'm a helpful person, but I won't subscribe to your rules. You do what you do best.
And you can judge me till eternity, I don't care. It's futile. I've always lived by my own rules and will
Continue to do so - no matter what anyone says.

Hans Bezemer

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

Now, Hans, please go away and chuck your domineering fit somewhere else. You have had and
continue to have, negliable benefit for people here. It's your fault you are in the wrong place
and can't be bothered to correctly interpret things, and regard even absolute facts as
relativistic. Which is not credible or scientific.

What would happen if everyone who Wayne told to go away, actually went away? I think he'd have no one left to talk to.

--

..(Lorem Ipsum)

'Party on dude!'. Proper people would start turning up, who were normally scared away by those couple of people, :)

No need for subversion there..

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:51:09 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:08:16 AM UTC+2, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

In article <c9f97ad2-7a76-4e01...@googlegroups.com>,
the.bee...@gmail.com says...

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what

it, what ever

the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

Small point - is anyone aware of base '1' notation?

Yes - and it doesn't work for two reasons:
- first, the radix figure is NEVER part of the allowed figure set of that radix; 2 isn't part of binary (only 0 and 1),
8 isn't part of octal (0-7), A isn't part of decimal (0-9);
- second, the radix is always expressed as 10 under that radix (10 is 2 in binary, 8 in octal, 10 in decimal and 16 in hex).

So, radix 1 cannot contain a 1, only a zero. But it makes it also impossible to express 10 for
obvious reasons.

Radix 1? I don't think so.

Hans Bezemer

Somebody did a page showing two crossed out Roman groups of IIIII as 10.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:51:09 PM UTC-4, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:08:16 AM UTC+2, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

In article <c9f97ad2-7a76-4e01...@googlegroups.com>,
the.bee...@gmail.com says...

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what

it, what ever

the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

Small point - is anyone aware of base '1' notation?

Yes - and it doesn't work for two reasons:
- first, the radix figure is NEVER part of the allowed figure set of that radix; 2 isn't part of binary (only 0 and 1),
8 isn't part of octal (0-7), A isn't part of decimal (0-9);
- second, the radix is always expressed as 10 under that radix (10 is 2 in binary, 8 in octal, 10 in decimal and 16 in hex).

So, radix 1 cannot contain a 1, only a zero. But it makes it also impossible to express 10 for
obvious reasons.

Radix 1? I don't think so.

Hans Bezemer

What I know is, there are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

-+-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 14/09/2022 8:33 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 12:02:24 AM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 13/09/2022 8:27 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 7:27:19 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 13/09/2022 5:13 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

That's what self centred selfish rolle day. Know enough of them I've got to help out when they
stuff up their lives. Being dysfunction in the caring department, it's not reciprocal, even
though I am careful not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many).

So there are limits to your generosity - meaning you pick and choose what's
good for you?

"Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not
to sacrifice himself." - A. Solzhenitsyn

That is the wrong way around. The typing stuffed up again, have problems hitting keys even at times when I think I typed well.

Here DX, I'll clarify a bit:

That's what self centred selfish people say. Know enough of them, who I've got to help out
when they stuff up their lives. Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them, even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life (nutters will do that for you, and there are too many) they

usually don't care to help.

You say you've had to help self-centered selfish people. There's a good deal of
self if not resentment in that statement. Is that help - or self weighing up who
got what?

Strange! A summing up of fact and experience, in an academically contrasting manner (again, out of one of the academic levels). That I know what they are like and how obsessively self-centred they are. It doesn't matter how innocent you are, they don'

t want to help, but expect help when they keep recklessly stuffing up things. Some resentment, they often can't put in minimal effort, during the rarer times I need help. Anyway, woke with my eyes burning skfncsmt.lrtp.goimg on eitjbthis conversation.

Let them make their mistakes - what's it got to do with you? If it happens that you
need them and that's why you're helping then I'd say you're screwed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:47:13 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 14/09/2022 8:33 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

Let them make their mistakes - what's it got to do with you? If it happens that you
need them and that's why you're helping then I'd say you're screwed.

Well, you seem very active lately! Oh, I let them. They are not going listen, but they are going come to me for help and take up my time and energy. A lot to do with me unfortunately. Sorry, your last line in mistaken again. I help them because they
need help. Believe me, it's not worth getting their help, but that's not the aim. Would be great if they thought the same way.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:31:48 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Somebody did a page showing two crossed out Roman groups of IIIII as 10.

That would be an X. And to come back to your point: 1+1=11 does not equal I+I=II

Different symbols.. You get I in radix 19, where "II" equals 522.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 14/09/2022 7:07 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:47:13 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 14/09/2022 8:33 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

Let them make their mistakes - what's it got to do with you? If it happens that you
need them and that's why you're helping then I'd say you're screwed.

Well, you seem very active lately!

It's not forth for a change :)

Oh, I let them. They are not going listen, but they are going come to me for help and take up my time and energy. A lot to do with me unfortunately. Sorry, your last line in mistaken again. I help them because they need help. Believe me, it's not

worth getting their help, but that's not the aim. Would be great if they thought the same way.


The test as to whether it's help is simple enough - does it help the
relation - or poison it. If the latter then better to not be involved.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:27:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them, even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life.

Transactional morality (also called: “Contractarianism”) is one of the more
pragmatic versions of ethical behavior. It goes like this: we agree not to kill each other, so you are safe and I am safe. But also: you pay taxes, so you got roads and they're maintained. It's not much about "caring", it's just agreeing on
some rules which benefit you and me.

It's basically VERY egotistical, because you agree on rules which limits your freedom, but are on the other hand advantageous. WHAT these rules exactly
are, are not defined by contractarianism. Quite the contrary, contractarians are skeptical of the possibility of grounding morality or political authority in
either divine will or some perfectionist ideal of the nature of humanity.

It's also exactly the opposite of your "absolute truths". It all in the things the two
parties want to agree upon.

One of them, seems to have genuine mistaken beliefs. What can I say, maybe they will learn that moral relativism is not the only thing which isn't black and
white, and come around to a deeper knowledge.

Beliefs are "positive attitudes to a proposition". I cannot deny to choose sides on
some highly arbitrary issues, since every person will have some basic values which predispose them to prefer some points of view.

But the world is also full of "don't cares" - things that I do not value to choose sides.
Sometimes, because I lack the will power to dive into a matter to in order to make
a proper judgement, or because sometimes because I just don't have to, because it's not gonna change my life.

What I DO value though are "justified positive attitudes to a proposition", which means
you just don't "believe" things, but enough proof, evidence or arguments are provided
in order to justify such an assumption.

I tend to "believe" general relativity, since I've gotten enough indications to assume its
validity. I tend not to "believe" in God, because such proof is lacking. That won't mean
I rule out His existence, because that's not how a Wittgensteinian works. But the probability
is low. The probability of a Biblical God is even lower IMHO, because of several (logical
and historical) inconsistencies.

If someone provides overwhelming proof that a "Big bang" did not happen, I'd probably
adopt it. That's how science works. It's not carved in stone.

Almost any human abstraction fails when confronted with the real world. Every categorization,
every definition, every model will eventually be confronted with a real world instance where
it doesn't really fit. That's what "fringe phenomena" and "anomalies" are for.

I came across a nice example recently, where people discussed the concept "women".
You can defines those as living persons "where the vast majority of cells lack a Y chromosome".
("Vast" is required, because some women may have Y-genotype cells after sharing a womb
with with a male twin or after a pregnancy with a male fetus).

But still it fails. There are persons composed of TWO sorts of cells, chimera. If the sex of
these cells differs, they are composed of about 50% male cells and 50% female cells. The
list of all(!) the persons of the world with this condition doesn't even fill a legal page, but
still (most of them have a DOI paper dedicated to them - that's how rare they are).

Does that make the definition useless? No. It will properly classify the vast majority of
cases. Also - there are so many exceptions to the natural classification system that
one could wonder why it is presented so definitively.

One can strike a line on a gradient from pure white to pure black almost anywhere -
and still have a solid reason to defend that choice. However, that doesn't mean that
the mere possibility that different choices can be made makes striking a particular line
a futile act. It may have a validity within a certain set of conditions and goals.

And if such a line has been struck, the conclusions drawn based on this line may be
completely valid and reproducible.

So don't talk to me about "shades of gray". I'm a biologist. I've seen plenty.

This thinking is very undergrad and rigid, but even then they should have been shown
how the higher level works.

Well, the proof that every dogmatic ethical system fails at some point is freshman year
stuff at the philosophy faculty. Yet you failed to prove having any knowledge of it.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:17:37 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 14/09/2022 7:07 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:47:13 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 14/09/2022 8:33 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

Let them make their mistakes - what's it got to do with you? If it happens that you
need them and that's why you're helping then I'd say you're screwed.

Well, you seem very active lately!

It's not forth for a change :)

Oh, I let them. They are not going listen, but they are going come to me for help and take up my time and energy. A lot to do with me unfortunately. Sorry, your last line in mistaken again. I help them because they need help. Believe me, it's not

worth getting their help, but that's not the aim. Would be great if they thought the same way.

The test as to whether it's help is simple enough - does it help the relation - or poison it. If the latter then better to not be involved.

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 10:46:49 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:31:48 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Somebody did a page showing two crossed out Roman groups of IIIII as 10.

That would be an X. And to come back to your point: 1+1=11 does not equal I+I=II

Different symbols.. You get I in radix 19, where "II" equals 522.

Hans Bezemer

My point was, that the absolute truth was that 1+1=2, not some other thing. The X is just a short form so you don't have to type IIIIIIIIII, or vIIIII.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:40:51 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

My point was, that the absolute truth was that 1+1=2, not some other thing. The X is just a short form so you don't have to type IIIIIIIIII, or vIIIII.

Sure, there were some alternative additive and subtractive forms, but NOTHING like that.
Do your research first before your spewing your nonsense on the Internet.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:26:32 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:40:51 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

My point was, that the absolute truth was that 1+1=2, not some other thing. The X is just a short form so you don't have to type IIIIIIIIII, or vIIIII.

Sure, there were some alternative additive and subtractive forms, but NOTHING like that.
Do your research first before your spewing your nonsense on the Internet.

Hans Bezemer

I was saying they used those systems instead, I didn't say they did in those systems. The likelihood is that they would have before those systems. If you show ten with your hands and fingers what do you do: IIIII IIIII

I think you should stop being malicious towards me and start reflecting on yourself instead.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or fluid
of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:45:49 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:27:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them,
even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life.

Transactional morality (also called: “Contractarianism”) is one of the more
pragmatic versions of ethical behavior. It goes like this: we agree not to kill
each other, so you are safe and I am safe. But also: you pay taxes, so you got
roads and they're maintained. It's not much about "caring", it's just agreeing on
some rules which benefit you and me.

My goodness you get things a bit wrong don't you. That's not even the right category. One does other people well who are not being right, and even though one does what is right responsibly and well, the uncaring are just rude enough not to do well at
all and not do the minimum. It's about responsibility to do right in your actions and care, which you could learn. If the person with the less need and more irresponsibility can not respect and do the minimum for the person with greatest need and
responsibility and care, the person is a disrespectful jack ass. You clinical analysis based on reduced knowledge, and therefore reduced accommodation not actual real aspects, is wrong as usual. I don't really expect you to get everything right here,
bit at least not to stop limit yourself from getting things right, and interfering with others and trying to stop them from being right. It's irresponsible.
..

I tend to "believe" general relativity, since I've gotten enough indications to assume its
validity. I tend not to "believe" in God, because such proof is lacking. That won't mean
I rule out His existence, because that's not how a Wittgensteinian works. But the probability
is low. The probability of a Biblical God is even lower IMHO, because of several (logical
and historical) inconsistencies.

Here's a challenging well documented case. You would have to watch the whole video, and the whole series to pick up the account. The Mexican health department was documenting this from memory

https://youtu.be/0dUFAikPXLg

If someone provides overwhelming proof that a "Big bang" did not happen, I'd probably
adopt it. That's how science works. It's not carved in stone.

I thought I had one from the Spacetime channel around among the ones I have in this topic. There is also recently a lot of redshift/age is too great stuff going on from the James Webb.

https://youtu.be/DaouTS072ew


This guy is a bit interesting:

https://youtu.be/__0Y5SyEVUI

Almost any human abstraction fails when confronted with the real world. Every categorization,
every definition, every model will eventually be confronted with a real world instance where
it doesn't really fit. That's what "fringe phenomena" and "anomalies" are for.

Just let me look:

https://youtu.be/AcYZ9rH_S9U

I don't know exactly what is in this one, but the guy on this channel is fairly evenly handed, the fish less so:

https://youtu.be/LQJs8BHtTXg


And this one is just for you Hans:

https://youtu.be/5sYk-7v74C8

I came across a nice example recently, where people discussed the concept "women".
You can defines those as living persons "where the vast majority of cells lack a Y chromosome".
("Vast" is required, because some women may have Y-genotype cells after sharing a womb
with with a male twin or after a pregnancy with a male fetus).

They did believe it was also the genetic uptake from a male partners sperm long term.

But still it fails. There are persons composed of TWO sorts of cells, chimera. If the sex of
these cells differs, they are composed of about 50% male cells and 50% female cells. The
list of all(!) the persons of the world with this condition doesn't even fill a legal page, but
still (most of them have a DOI paper dedicated to them - that's how rare they are).

How is a male defined? I actually know a guy with an extra y.

So don't talk to me about "shades of gray". I'm a biologist. I've seen plenty.

This thinking is very undergrad and rigid, but even then they should have been shown
how the higher level works.

Well, the proof that every dogmatic ethical system fails at some point is freshman year
stuff at the philosophy faculty. Yet you failed to prove having any knowledge of it.

How ridiculous. You basically have a dogmatic ethical system based on academia, which has mainly argued against over things and use itself as authority. But, you miss that, and can't see it. You also willfully missed many proofs, trying to smoother
them with the wrong stuff. It's like a dogma cult.

Just because one has a philosophy or publishes, or is an academic, it does not prove one is right, and that includes rules of engagement. There has been a whole history of pushing false academic beliefs. The stupid just assume it's true, the wise see
there is something wrong, question what is right, and live by what is right. Some situations are often strands of black and white, even dynamically shifting in and out of situations, which look grey, even shimmering grey, confusing people. Other
situations might be people's shift preferences, wherever to buy flowers or not, what colour to buy today, is often a shifting personal choice with maybe no black or white compared to other days. It's all relative to contexts, sometimes that context is
solid, sometimes not. The fact I use an example her, is not of itself proof or right example, but is used to reach down or across to people. A true thinker thinks about what the contexts are of what something means, without simple examples. So, when
you say stuff, I'm examining the contexts of what it means and funding a lot of fault, but you are not, you are just quoting stuff without properly understanding. Anybody can squint their eye, and think something fits well enough, fooling themselves
into the convenient answer, but will it ever be? That's true knowledge, to understand the difference and also be able to apply the former. When you get advanced enough, you can fill in left out information, and people do leave out information that
others fill in. You might speak like Yoda, but to speak more fully is just eloquence (is that the right word) rather than skill of knowledge or thinking, but the simple love eloquence, but the skill in thinking love understand. Because, in ancient
times the language was sophisticated enough that that word order did not even matter so much, or fill words, people know the context of what you are getting at. You sharpen your mind by practicing this. Unless you practice this, you will never grow as a
thinker, but always be quoting adults, what they believed, right or wrong, not becoming an adult yourself. You obviously are intelligent, but practice contextual and conceptual (context being a localised concept) thinkiNg

Hans Bezemer a lot of misapplied stuff I' have deleted. Trying to reason with you has proven a waste of time. You don't listen to broader knowledge but hide yourself in other's opinions trying to strike people from there. Very uncool. Take the ego away.
If you have a wife and kids, go ask them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 15/09/2022 10:30 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote: >>> Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.
I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or

fluid of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

What was the plan again? Ah, raising Forth from the dead. Good that you've started with something small.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:02:44 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 10:30 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or fluid

of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

What was the plan again? Ah, raising Forth from the dead. Good that you've started with something small.

You are not very happy lately! You can do something yourself, every little bit helps? Expanding forth is a side benefit to you. As I've said, promoting reverse polish notation stack based processing. If you bothered to read it. You could use the
language Joy if you want.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 2:30:56 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss.

If you think that's an attack, you've never seen me attacking. This is just a friendly debate.

And don't really think very well.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

It's all not the most smart, logical or fluid of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid.

Obviously you don't know it, otherwise you would have used it.

You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

Get with the plan, or get please.

Which plan? Your "plan"? I don't think so.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:08:17 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:45:49 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:27:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them,
even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life.

Transactional morality (also called: “Contractarianism”) is one of the more
pragmatic versions of ethical behavior. It goes like this: we agree not to kill
each other, so you are safe and I am safe. But also: you pay taxes, so you got
roads and they're maintained. It's not much about "caring", it's just agreeing on
some rules which benefit you and me.

My goodness you get things a bit wrong don't you. That's not even the right category.

Well, there are a lot of college freshmen who can disagree with you on that. It's an
accepted school of ethics. But you're free to categorize it anywhere else. Just be
sure to give some argumentation why you classified it these, based on the characteristics
of that particular school. Kantian, Utilitarianism, Platonian - do your best.

One does other people well who are not being right, and even though one does what is right responsibly and well, the uncaring are just rude enough not to do
well at all and not do the minimum. It's about responsibility to do right in your
actions and care, which you could learn.

Sounds like Platonian, maybe Kantian. As far as the latter goes, even his peers found it problematic.

If the person with the less need and more irresponsibility can not respect and
do the minimum for the person with greatest need and responsibility and care, the person is a disrespectful jack ass.

Nietzsche would tend to disagree with that.

You clinical analysis based on reduced knowledge,

All knowledge is reduced knowledge. The world is too complex to comprehend for the human brain without generalization and abstraction. I guess you know your house
very well. Now try to remember it with photographic precision. You can't. Very few
people can. That's how the brain of mere mortals works.

and therefore reduced accommodation not actual real aspects, is wrong as usual.

That's debatable. Although there are many distorting factors, I can calculate with
a certain precision what the terminal velocity is of a coin dropped from a sky scraper. That's the power of abstraction and condensation of natural phenomena into natural laws.

I don't really expect you to get everything right here,bit at least not to stop limit
yourself from getting things right, and interfering with others and trying to stop
them from being right. It's irresponsible.

"Right" according to which standards? There is no such thing as natural right. Try Hume
for that one: "You can derive an 'ought' from an 'is". And yes, everyone trying has failed.
Hume rulez.

Here's a challenging well documented case. You would have to watch the whole video,
and the whole series to pick up the account. The Mexican health department was
documenting this from memory

Ok, let's make one thing VERY clear. YouTube and Facebook are NOT recognized scientific publications or publication channels. Some posting there give academic
references in the form of a list of DOI numbers. If you don't know what DOI is, you're
not debating material. If you think it's inaccessible, try Sci Hub.

So, clean up your act, come up with valid references and we'll cover those topics
again. It's very naive to take YouTube and Facebook serious. "Don't believe everything
the paper writes" has always been good advise - and applies here as well.

How is a male defined? I actually know a guy with an extra y.

Simple: every living person that is not a woman. XYY or Klinefelter syndrome have no
effect on the original definition - or this one. Try it.

How ridiculous. You basically have a dogmatic ethical system based on academia,
which has mainly argued against over things and use itself as authority. But, you
miss that, and can't see it. You also willfully missed many proofs, trying to smoother
them with the wrong stuff. It's like a dogma cult.

You don't actually know what a "dogma" is, do you? Otherwise you wouldn't have made
this error.

Just because one has a philosophy or publishes, or is an academic, it does not prove
one is right, and that includes rules of engagement. There has been a whole history of
pushing false academic beliefs.

If you would have know ANYTHING about science philosophy, you wouldn't have made
this error. Science doesn't do truth. It's always about likelihoods. "As far as we know now"
is a sentence you often find in popular publications. It expresses the margin of error that
is always present in knowing ANYTHING. There is even an entire science of "knowing"
called "epistemology".

However, science is the only movement that has derived an entire framework to minimize
errors in judgement. Like "how much of a phenomenon or an observation is explained by
a theory", "can the question asked be proven wrong", "can it be replicated", etc. etc.

It has been developed and perfected by trial and error over millennia. But - like any other
system - it can fail. First and foremost - because people have to execute it. And people are
far from flawless.

So - cherry picking examples is not quite the way to go. That's a VERY weak argument. Try
some simple statistics. Science brought us to the moon, improved our principles of farming
an make this remote debate possible. No other movement did that. If it were up to religion
we'd still be in the Middle Ages.

The stupid just assume it's true, the wise see there is something wrong, question what is
right, and live by what is right.

Yes, yes, yes and no. The stupid believe YouTube and Facebook, the smart cross-check and
validate it, compose alternative explanations (and often - discard them on scientific grounds
or make a scientific break through - like Einstein) and KNOW that Hume was right - because
after so many centuries nobody has been able to defeat him in a way that can uphold
scientific scrutiny.

And then a lot off babbling that has been put to rest in Greek times - whatever you feel is
INVALID. Thinking that you're smart doesn't make you smart. Doing what you feel doesn't
bring you any closer to the "truth" - however you define it.

There are solid ways to do those things. And you won't find them with quacks, gurus or
other charlatans.

Hans Bezemer a lot of misapplied stuff I' have deleted. Trying to reason with you has
proven a waste of time.

I can imagine. Since you don't reason. It's all vague, incoherent gibberish.

You don't listen to broader knowledge but hide yourself in other's opinions trying to
strike people from there. Very uncool. Take the ego away. If you have a wife and kids,
go ask them.

If you don't agree with ANYTHING I say, do the work, write a paper, get it accepted in the
scientific community and I'll listen. If you don't - and even fail to produce ANYTHING that
remotely resembles a valid (I don't mention sound) argument - you get called out for it.
I'm my wifes favorite nerd.

Hans Bezemer

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On 15/09/2022 6:58 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:02:44 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 10:30 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or fluid

of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

What was the plan again? Ah, raising Forth from the dead. Good that you've >> started with something small.

You are not very happy lately! You can do something yourself, every little bit helps? Expanding forth is a side benefit to you. As I've said, promoting reverse polish notation stack based processing. If you bothered to read it. You could use the

language Joy if you want.

Nice try. Reflecting your needs and wants upon others may work on newcomers. But it would only be the blind leading the blind.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 9:15:40 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 6:58 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:02:44 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 10:30 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or

fluid of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

What was the plan again? Ah, raising Forth from the dead. Good that you've
started with something small.

You are not very happy lately! You can do something yourself, every little bit helps? Expanding forth is a side benefit to you. As I've said, promoting reverse polish notation stack based processing. If you bothered to read it. You could use the

language Joy if you want.

Nice try. Reflecting your needs and wants upon others may work on newcomers. But it would only be the blind leading the blind.

Why is everybody going mad around here. You are acting up. You are welcome to do so ething yourself rather than criticise, and it's not my wants or needs. You made a wrong jive and I pointed it out, now you are diverting. You don't seem to have much
Joy, lately. Am I supposed to be blind. Your reply to Hans..

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 15/09/2022 9:05 pm, Hans Bezemer wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:08:17 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

If the person with the less need and more irresponsibility can not respect and
do the minimum for the person with greatest need and responsibility and care,
the person is a disrespectful jack ass.

Nietzsche would tend to disagree with that.

Lost track of the number of times I've heard politicians say they'd earn more in
the private sector. I wish them well :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 8:12:59 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 2:30:56 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss.

If you think that's an attack, you've never seen me attacking. This is just a friendly debate.

That might explain the issue.

And don't really think very well.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

Just facts. Adults don't have to bring up and feed past mistakes. You should know by the conceits you are taught. So, you have no weight here. None before pointed out, dues not add to any now, or none to the one who pointed it out. When you get to a
higher level you can see it. When I was really sick and couldn't read, I subconsciously picked up you were doing this.

You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

In denial. An mature moralist can correctly examine themselves and their actions.

It's all not the most smart, logical or fluid of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

In denial..

There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid.

Obviously you don't know it, otherwise you would have used it.

I don't know if I have ever called anybody a recalcitrant.

You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on.

Unfounded. Contradiction without any arguments. Low score on "Grahams triangle of disagreement".

Denial.

Get with the plan, or get please.

Which plan? Your "plan"? I don't think so.

It's not your topic or thread. So if you don't want to, please go. That was obvious from the beginning.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 15/09/2022 11:57 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 9:15:40 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 6:58 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

You are not very happy lately! You can do something yourself, every little bit helps? Expanding forth is a side benefit to you. As I've said, promoting reverse polish notation stack based processing. If you bothered to read it. You could use the

language Joy if you want.

Nice try. Reflecting your needs and wants upon others may work on newcomers. >> But it would only be the blind leading the blind.

Why is everybody going mad around here. You are acting up. You are welcome to do so ething yourself rather than criticise, and it's not my wants or needs. You made a wrong jive and I pointed it out, now you are diverting. You don't seem to have much

Joy, lately. Am I supposed to be blind. Your reply to Hans..

Expanding forth, promoting RPN and using JOY isn't my need. If it's no longer yours,
you may end this thread and mark it closed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 9:05:52 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:08:17 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:45:49 PM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:27:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Being dysfunctional in the caring department, it's not reciprocal from them,
even though I am careful to do the right thing and not to stuff up my life.

Transactional morality (also called: “Contractarianism”) is one of the more
pragmatic versions of ethical behavior. It goes like this: we agree not to kill
each other, so you are safe and I am safe. But also: you pay taxes, so you got
roads and they're maintained. It's not much about "caring", it's just agreeing on
some rules which benefit you and me.

My goodness you get things a bit wrong don't you. That's not even the right category.

Well, there are a lot of college freshmen who can disagree with you on that. It's an
accepted school of ethics. But you're free to categorize it anywhere else. Just be
sure to give some argumentation why you classified it these, based on the characteristics
of that particular school. Kantian, Utilitarianism, Platonian - do your best.

One does other people well who are not being right, and even though one does
what is right responsibly and well, the uncaring are just rude enough not to do
well at all and not do the minimum. It's about responsibility to do right in your
actions and care, which you could learn.

Sounds like Platonian, maybe Kantian. As far as the latter goes, even his peers
found it problematic.

My goodness blind leading the blind. If you blindly believe men, without thinking about it, you are bound to pickup their mistakes and even increase the mistakes.

If the person with the less need and more irresponsibility can not respect and
do the minimum for the person with greatest need and responsibility and care,
the person is a disrespectful jack ass.

Nietzsche would tend to disagree with that.

Exactly, how much do you know about the final part of his life, when he woke up to it all being a fake, hugged a horse, but his sister kept the deception going. There were some deep issues going on there.

You clinical analysis based on reduced knowledge,

All knowledge is reduced knowledge. The world is too complex to comprehend for
the human brain without generalization and abstraction. I guess you know your house
very well. Now try to remember it with photographic precision. You can't. Very few
people can. That's how the brain of mere mortals works.

I can see you doing this.

and therefore reduced accommodation not actual real aspects, is wrong as usual.

That's debatable. Although there are many distorting factors, I can calculate with
a certain precision what the terminal velocity is of a coin dropped from a sky
scraper. That's the power of abstraction and condensation of natural phenomena
into natural laws.

Good grief, that not much at all, unless you don't know about acceleration and terminal velocity, even then it's not much, it's just a calculation based on variables. Do you go around doing this to people? Unfortunately I'm knocked out, so going have
to finish up.

The rest is ego intelligence striking again, but of no substance. Closed minded, disregarding observing facts to a significant degree. Gullibily believing one set of delusions over reality.

I apologise for getting the xy chromosome definitions reversed, brain damage again. But the point was that males have x and y, I think. Crashing her.

However, the digms thing is right:

From ba quick ddg search
"A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a religion.
A principle or statement of ideas, or a group of such principles or statements, especially when considered to be authoritative or accepted uncritically.
A settled opinion; a principle, maxim, or tenet held as being firmly established."

That sounds like what you have been doing.

You divert my use of the term philosophy, as Science Philosophy instead . Was that deliberate? Even then, you have forgotten that basic number maths has definite functioning, that 1+1=2.

I don't really expect you to get everything right here,bit at least not to stop limit
yourself from getting things right, and interfering with others and trying to stop
them from being right. It's irresponsible.

How ridiculous. You basically have a dogmatic ethical system based on academia,
which has mainly argued against over things and use itself as authority. But, you
miss that, and can't see it. You also willfully missed many proofs, trying to smoother
them with the wrong stuff. It's like a dogma cult.

Just because one has a philosophy or publishes, or is an academic, it does not prove
one is right, and that includes rules of engagement. There has been a whole history of
pushing false academic beliefs.

Hans Bezemer a lot of misapplied stuff I' have deleted. Trying to reason with you has
proven a waste of time.

You don't listen to broader knowledge but hide yourself in other's opinions trying to
strike people from there. Very uncool. Take the ego away. If you have a wife and kids,
go ask them.

Ask them for the honest truth mate!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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My appologies folks. Plenty of blind sick logic meltdowns and misdirection. But this is not a half way house. It's a charity. I appreciate all the constructive people, but not those that constantly mistake but don't apologise, in monstrosity. Have you
noticed, I'm about the only one apologizing for genuine mistakes, but others make many mistakes but do not? Thats worth noting. I don't know if it's defined as border line personality disorder or sociopathic, but it's hardly sane (incidentally it's
usually just people with mental issues that give me problems in real life, who have problems rationalising their minds in order to feel and think properly. Even as a small child, I did nothing, said hardly anything, but was always a target of
sociopathic bullies. Anybody you see acting in that way, you should not trust.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:08:52 AM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 11:57 pm, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 9:15:40 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 6:58 pm.

Expanding forth, promoting RPN and using JOY isn't my need. If it's no longer yours,
you may end this thread and mark it closed.

It's not your business, nor being here. What you said is most dubious.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:20:39 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

Hans Bezemer

What ever you just trted to waste my time with, is likely irrelevant.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:59:41 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Sounds like Platonian, maybe Kantian. As far as the latter goes, even his peers
found it problematic.

My goodness blind leading the blind. If you blindly believe men, without thinking
about it, you are bound to pickup their mistakes and even increase the mistakes.

Where did I state I either a Kantian or Platonian? Nowhere. I just accessed your
"ethical principles" and tried to place them in some category. Not that you gave me
much to work with.

Nietzsche would tend to disagree with that.

Exactly, how much do you know about the final part of his life, when he woke up to
it all being a fake, hugged a horse, but his sister kept the deception going. There
were some deep issues going on there.

Smart people subscribe to ideas. Dumb ones to prophets. You obviously subscribe to be classified to be in the latter ones, since you commit a logical fallacy.

Good grief, that not much at all, unless you don't know about acceleration and
terminal velocity, even then it's not much, it's just a calculation based on variables.
Do you go around doing this to people? Unfortunately I'm knocked out, so going
have to finish up.

I don't say it's much - it is merely a very simple example of how generalized and
abstracted knowledge is condensed - "reduced" in your words.

The rest is ego intelligence striking again, but of no substance. Closed minded,
disregarding observing facts to a significant degree. Gullibily believing one set
of delusions over reality.

I'm not close minded - it's you failing to come up with the goods.

"A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a religion.
A principle or statement of ideas, or a group of such principles or statements,
especially when considered to be authoritative or accepted uncritically.
A settled opinion; a principle, maxim, or tenet held as being firmly established."

Exactly. It's a set of rules, principles or statements that are placed outside the
realm of discussion, since they are critical to whatever they apply to. "Articles of creed" are a good example. If you don't agree to that you cannot be
a good Catholic. The same goes for the works of Marx for communists - or the basic concepts of wokism.

If you state such a thing without any reference or proper justification, you're by
very definition "dogmatic".

That sounds like what you have been doing.

Not really. There is proper scientific justification for those ones. I don't have to
invent every single thing myself.

You divert my use of the term philosophy, as Science Philosophy instead . Was that
deliberate? Even then, you have forgotten that basic number maths has definite
functioning, that 1+1=2.

There are many branches and schools of philosophy. "Continental" and "Analytic" come
to mind. Science Philosophy is just one of the specializations of philosophy - which
concerns itself with the scientific method. Russell, Popper are a few of the big names
in that area. It's not "disconnected" with the vast body of philosophy if you think so.

Ask them for the honest truth mate!

You want to imply my wife is lying?

Hans Bezemer

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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:32:25 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:21:26 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

but others make many mistakes but do not?

You're not even remotely capable of setting up a coherent discourse in order to prove someone wrong.

Hans Bezemer

I did, but you are not remotely able to even recognise how wrong you are.

One word keeps coming to mind, out of shock, reading what's wrong with your attempts at reasoning, it starts with i and it's not about me, and it can go down each paragraph. That should give you an idea. Now, stop with your behaviour and go away.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:21:26 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

but others make many mistakes but do not?

You're not even remotely capable of setting up a coherent discourse in order
to prove someone wrong.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 2:02:29 AM UTC+10, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:32:25 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 5:21:26 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

but others make many mistakes but do not?

You're not even remotely capable of setting up a coherent discourse in order
to prove someone wrong.

Hans Bezemer

I did, but you are not remotely able to even recognise how wrong you are.

One word keeps coming to mind, out of shock, reading what's wrong with your attempts at reasoning, it starts with i and it's not about me, and it can go down each paragraph. That should give you an idea. Now, stop with your behaviour and go away.

Please.

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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:05:52 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]

Although there are many distorting factors, I can calculate with
a certain precision what the terminal velocity is of a coin dropped from a sky
scraper.

If hurled off a skyscraper, pennies achieve their terminal velocity after only about 50 feet (15 meters) of descent. After that point, they flutter to the ground at a measly 25 mph.

-marcel

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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:02:29 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I did, but you are not remotely able to even recognise how wrong you are.

Again - no arguments, only statements.

One word keeps coming to mind, out of shock, reading what's wrong with
your attempts at reasoning.

Well, point them out. According to the rules of logic. Define your premises
- either agreed upon or sufficiently proven - and makes the proper deductions.

I'm eagerly waiting - it would be a first, though.

Hans Bezemer

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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:04:40 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Please.

Shall we call it a draw?

Hans Bezemer

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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:26:35 PM UTC+2, Marcel Hendrix wrote:

If hurled off a skyscraper, pennies achieve their terminal velocity after only
about 50 feet (15 meters) of descent. After that point, they flutter to the ground at a measly 25 mph.

I know. For a penny you can get away with a pretty simple equation, since it experiences a negligible drag force.

Hans Bezemer

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On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:02:44 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 10:30 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or fluid

of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

What was the plan again? Ah, raising Forth from the dead. Good that you've started with something small.

LOL The eternal optimist, as usual.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

-+-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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In article <81c65e21-60a4-41b8-9b07-85fba28592d4n@googlegroups.com>, the.beez.speaks@gmail.com says...

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:08:16 AM UTC+2, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

In article <c9f97ad2-7a76-4e01...@googlegroups.com>,
the.bee...@gmail.com says...

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what

it, what ever

the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

Small point - is anyone aware of base '1' notation?

Yes - and it doesn't work for two reasons:
- first, the radix figure is NEVER part of the allowed figure set of that radix; 2 isn't part of binary (only 0 and 1),
8 isn't part of octal (0-7), A isn't part of decimal (0-9);
- second, the radix is always expressed as 10 under that radix (10 is 2 in binary, 8 in octal, 10 in decimal and 16 in hex).

So, radix 1 cannot contain a 1, only a zero. But it makes it also impossible to express 10 for
obvious reasons.

Radix 1? I don't think so.

Hans Bezemer

I was thinking more along the lines of how arithmetic values are
sometimes represented in the simple Turing machine model. Yes, in
the abstract base '1' would use strings of zeros, but for the
Turing tape zeros are blanks and ones are the marks.

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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 10:05:51 AM UTC+2, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of how arithmetic values are
sometimes represented in the simple Turing machine model. Yes, in
the abstract base '1' would use strings of zeros, but for the
Turing tape zeros are blanks and ones are the marks.

You're saying it correctly - STRINGS of zeros.

Since for obvious reasons, any set of zeroes collapses to zero. Or:

In binary:
x*2^0 + y*2^1 + z*2^2..

Which means that 101 = 1*2^0 + 0*2^1 + 1*2^2 = 5

In decimal:

x*10^0 + y*10^1 + z*10^2..

So "5" = 5*10^0

In base 1:
x*1^0 + y*1^1 + z*1^2..

Which nicely comes out as 1+1+1..

However 00000 becomes:

0*1^0 + 0* 1^1 + 0*1^2 + 0* 1^3 + 0*1^4

Which amounts to zero. QED.

Hans Bezemer

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In article <4d03cde0-4a77-42f6-9d4f-7432f2aafa93n@googlegroups.com>,
Marcel Hendrix <mhx@iae.nl> wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 1:05:52 PM UTC+2, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]

Although there are many distorting factors, I can calculate with
a certain precision what the terminal velocity is of a coin dropped from a sky
scraper.

If hurled off a skyscraper, pennies achieve their terminal velocity after only >about 50 feet (15 meters) of descent. After that point, they flutter to the >ground at a measly 25 mph.

meter per hour ?

My calculation is at most 17 m/s (if the assumption of a terminal velocity after 15 m is right.)

Even dropping a canon ball from 300 m, you can't ignore drag.

-marcel

Groetjes Albert
--
"in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 1:23:04 PM UTC+2, none albert wrote:

Even dropping a canon ball from 300 m, you can't ignore drag.

True - that one is 0.5. A coin is a bit of a problem, since it has several sides.
I'm not enough of a physicist to determine whether a coin would tumble,
drop face down or go face down.

But this page may help: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/drag-coefficient-d_627.html

Terminal velocity is just: SQRT(2mg/CdA), where:

g = gravitational constant
m = mass
C = drag coefficient
d = medium density
A = area

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 6:05:51 PM UTC+10, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

In article <81c65e21-60a4-41b8...@googlegroups.com>,
the.bee...@gmail.com says...

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:08:16 AM UTC+2, Fred J. Scipione wrote:

In article <c9f97ad2-7a76-4e01...@googlegroups.com>, the.bee...@gmail.com says...

What does 1+1 equal. 2 or 11. It's very simple. The truth is what

it, what ever

the eye of the observer is.

It's never 11. It might be 10. It doesn't depend on the "eye of the observer", but
the radix.

Small point - is anyone aware of base '1' notation?

Yes - and it doesn't work for two reasons:
- first, the radix figure is NEVER part of the allowed figure set of that radix; 2 isn't part of binary (only 0 and 1),
8 isn't part of octal (0-7), A isn't part of decimal (0-9);
- second, the radix is always expressed as 10 under that radix (10 is 2 in binary, 8 in octal, 10 in decimal and 16 in hex).

So, radix 1 cannot contain a 1, only a zero. But it makes it also impossible to express 10 for
obvious reasons.

Radix 1? I don't think so.

Hans Bezemer

I was thinking more along the lines of how arithmetic values are
sometimes represented in the simple Turing machine model. Yes, in
the abstract base '1' would use strings of zeros, but for the
Turing tape zeros are blanks and ones are the marks.

Fred. Sorry I missed replying to it before, but good job. Hans is very optimistic, but he doesn't get it. 0, dots, 1, they all mean the existence of a proportion in your system, not necessarily "0'. Say a hole, which is both empty, and a value (as
somebody was referring too :)

It's just too sensibly unconventional to understand, even though a 3 year old might get it.

In your system you just leave a blank for zero, and 10 zeros for a 10, as the 0 is unneeded. Simplicity. Maybe somebody can find him some pebbles to work it out? We can draw zeros on them, to see if he thinks it's impossible, and declares it
illogical magic.

Good to see the level of rationality here hasn't improved in my absence.

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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 4:08:15 AM UTC+10, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:02:44 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:

On 15/09/2022 10:30 am, Wayne morellini wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 3:23:41 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 6:44:25 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Stubborn selfish self centred people who come for help, are often a pain, and considering listening poison (unless they are the ones talking). I'm a bit shy on helping people now, because of the problems with it.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but you're repeating yourself.

Hans Bezemer

That's ridiculous! You have been attacking for months, with little gain, and lots of loss. And don't really think very well. You mistake convention of action as truth, even though it contradicts reality. It's all not the most smart, logical or

fluid of situations. Be humble and pick yourself up please. There is a word for stubborn, influid and stupid. You are just causing looses for everybody here. Your instance in being here and dumping garbage is not on. Get with the plan, or get please.

What was the plan again? Ah, raising Forth from the dead. Good that you've started with something small.

LOL The eternal optimist, as usual.

--

Rick C. (Lorem Ipsum)

Again, read the thread and the reply. Revival of forth is a side effect, for your benefit, I want to promote misc. If promoting misc promotes forth, you should get in. Like colorforth is a nice name with marketable colours and there is machineforth to
x386 instructions to use as a VM, which can translate to the instruction set I wish to do, and I have my own language to design anyway, some of that coming to forth, with easy coding, and operating system. Yeah, doing a little processor or using a misc
processor in a retro gaming system, is going be so much more, or less, than an 8bit 6502? Baby steps and Heard's.

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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 3:46:32 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:02:29 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

I did, but you are not remotely able to even recognise how wrong you are.

Again - no arguments, only statements.

Yes, you can start making more correct statements Hans, go ahead. You just trading water and wasting our time.

One word keeps coming to mind, out of shock, reading what's wrong with
your attempts at reasoning.

Well, point them out. According to the rules of logic. Define your premises
- either agreed upon or sufficiently proven - and makes the proper deductions.

I'm eagerly waiting - it would be a first, though.

It's fun to see it drive you mad not to see them, and it's obvious how badly you are doing.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 3:56:40 AM UTC+10, the.bee...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 6:04:40 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Please.

Shall we call it a draw?

Why, you are not winning. You haven't figured out I was planning to run through some of your posts eventually. But, keep convincing someone.

Hans Bezemer

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 4:37:57 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Shall we call it a draw?

Why, you are not winning. You haven't figured out I was planning to run through
some of your posts eventually. But, keep convincing someone.

I was not whining "Please stop".. I did the nice thing and offered you an honorable
way out. But then again: the game is ON!

Hans Bezemer

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On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 4:02:51 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

It's fun to see it drive you mad not to see them, and it's obvious how badly you are doing.

No, it simply means whatever you're writing does not comply to generally accepted standards. Logic follows rules. Arguments follow logic. It can't be any
simpler than that.

Hans Bezemer

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On Monday, September 19, 2022 at 3:41:49 PM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote:

Fred. Sorry I missed replying to it before, but good job. Hans is very optimistic, but he doesn't get it.
0, dots, 1, they all mean the existence of a proportion in your system, not necessarily "0'. Say a hole,
which is both empty, and a value (as somebody was referring too :)

I get it very well. It's basic mathematics.

It's just too sensibly unconventional to understand, even though a 3 year old might get it.

It's not unconventional. It's the way primitive people count, like "one", "two", "many". The
point of all these number systems is they break down when algorithms are applied or when
numbers get very big. Take the Roman system. Not a good choice for a world based on
technology and science. It's like "hillbilly units" - when the going gets tough errors are made
and rockets fall out of the sky.

Good to see the level of rationality here hasn't improved in my absence.

Not really. He proposed "base 1" - which implies the use within the current system of number
representation. And there it breaks down for all the reasons I listed.

Hans Bezemer

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