eForth as Arduino Sketch seems to be quite popular to try out Forth.
Just get an Arduino nano or Uno
load the sketch
and start programming.
More info is here
https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/projects:430eforth:start
I'm a fan of native Forth instruction sets vs VMs and inner interpreters (o= >ops, not to forget inline native code generators). I'm amused to read serio= >us debate concerning whether DUP >R beats >R R@ or not.
To my mind, ANS implementations are valuable for desktop boxes that must de= >al with the *nix notion that all IO is through files (except for IOCTLs...a= >nd...er...um). So a keystroke plops a fresh char (whatever that is) into th= >e stdin stream. Long ago, when I looked into how gforth implemented key? a = >dependency on the venerable ncurses library was discovered. "Huh", I though= >t.
Perhaps in the=
future widespread adoptance of ferromagnetic RAM will solve the flash writ=
e endurance problem for non-volatile memory.
So DUP >R beats >R R@ on an unoptimized native-code system.
I have not found "curses" in the C parts of Gforth 0.3.0, 0.4.0,
0.5.0, 0.6.2, 0.7.3, or the current development version.
But sure, you certainly find a lot of legacy interfaces there, having
to do with the fact that Unix started on machines with terminals
attached though serial interfaces, and these days we have layers upon
layers of software that still work with these interfaces, even though
serial terminals are long gone.
Persistent memory (whatever implementation technology) has been
promised to be around the corner for close to a decade, but has not
been widely competetive with the current combo of DRAM and flash yet,
so I would not hold my breath.
So DUP >R beats >R R@ on an unoptimized native-code system.
A valid comparison for x86 inline code implementations.
A non-issue for a competently-designed stack machine that is free of industry standards.
[snip]
I have not found "curses" in the C parts of Gforth 0.3.0, 0.4.0,
0.5.0, 0.6.2, 0.7.3, or the current development version.
I cited ncurses,
but perhaps the situation has changed in the years gone by.
Please inform us on the current solution of key? in C-land.
But sure, you certainly find a lot of legacy interfaces there, having
to do with the fact that Unix started on machines with terminals
attached though serial interfaces, and these days we have layers upon
layers of software that still work with these interfaces, even though
serial terminals are long gone.
But USB/UART interfaces are alive and well for embedded developers no matter which language they craft their work in.
FRAM seems almost perfect for embedded Forth on a small scale.http://davesrocketworks.com/electronics/msp430/eforth/index.html
Perhaps in the future widespread adoptance of ferromagnetic RAM will
solve the flash write endurance problem for non-volatile memory.
Persistent memory ... has not been widely competetive with the current
combo of DRAM and flash yet
FRAM seems almost perfect for embedded Forth on a small scale. It's not
cost effective at the gigabyte scale but a 64KB FRAM chip costs a few >dollars. The MSP430FR5969 which has 64K of FRAM built in (plus 2K of
SRAM) seemed like a great choice as a Forth processor, with its 16 bit
cells, FRAM, and stack-friendly addressing cells. It used to be
available on a low cost Launchpad board but I think they have
discontinued that, as 16 bit cpus have gone out of style.
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
FRAM seems almost perfect for embedded Forth on a small scale. It's not >>cost effective at the gigabyte scale but a 64KB FRAM chip costs a few >>dollars. The MSP430FR5969 which has 64K of FRAM built in (plus 2K of
SRAM) seemed like a great choice as a Forth processor, with its 16 bit >>cells, FRAM, and stack-friendly addressing cells. It used to be
available on a low cost Launchpad board but I think they have
discontinued that, as 16 bit cpus have gone out of style.
It still seems to be available: ><https://www.mouser.de/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/MSP-EXP430FR5969?qs=FBI%252BX3tnPf0g8H7ws5NtfA%3D%3D>
23 immediately available (but you can only buy up to 3), and more from
the manufacturer. It's not cheap, though.
Anyway, most of the MSP430 chips did not use FRAM, and AFAIK none of
the MSP432 chips do, nor any of the competition AFAIK, so this does
not look like FRAM has a future even in the specific niche that the >MSP430FR5969 is occupying. That niche seems to be embedded systems
with fluctuating power supply.
So the chip would get a little power for an unpredictable amount of
time, do some computations, store them in FRAM, and when the power
goes away, it would just stop. On the next wakeup it would get the
last checkpoint from the FRAM and compute some more.
I don't know if that niche is too small, or if that mode of operation
would require major changes to the ARM cores that the MSP432 chips are
based on, if the ARM cores cannot be produced on the process that TI
uses for chips that contain FRAM, or if it's something else, but the
bottom line is that we are not seeing new FRAM designs, so FRAM can
certainly not be seen as an example of a coming wave of persistent
memory technologies.
- anton
FRAM seems almost perfect for embedded Forth on a small scale. It's not
cost effective at the gigabyte scale but a 64KB FRAM chip costs a few dollars. The MSP430FR5969 which has 64K of FRAM built in (plus 2K of
SRAM) seemed like a great choice as a Forth processor, with its 16 bit
cells, FRAM, and stack-friendly addressing cells.
FRAM also doesn't fit in the hierarchy of L1 cache, L2 cache,
L3 cache, main memory, swap space on disk.
A valid comparison for x86 inline code implementations.Let's see for other architectures (on gforth-fast):
Aarch64:
dup >r >r r@ superinstr.
mov x21, x27 sub x22, x22, #0x8 sub x22, x22, #0x8
add x26, x26, #0x8 add x26, x26, #0x8 add x26, x26, #0x10
sub x22, x22, #0x8 str x27, [x22,#0x0] str x27, [x22,#0x0]
add x26, x26, #0x8 ldr x27, [x22,#0x0]
str x21, [x22,#0x0] add x26, x26, #0x8
RISC-V
dup >r >r r@
mv s1,s7 addi s2,s2,-8
addi s10,s10,8 addi s10,s10,8
addi s2,s2,-8 sd s7,$0(s2)
addi s10,s10,8 ld s7,$0(s2)
sd s1,$0(s2) addi s10,s10,8
The same number of instructions, but >R R@ has a store followed by a
load of the same value, while DUP >R has only a store; however, a
reason for that is that gforth-fast has stack caching for the data
stack, but not for the return stack.
A non-issue for a competently-designed stack machine that is free of industry standards.Let's take a look at b16 and b16-small <https://bernd-paysan.de/b16.html>:
On b16 you can use DUP and >R in every slot, but R@ only in slot 1 (instruction $12 is R@ in slot 1, but R@+ in other slots).
On b16-small there is DUP and >R, but no R@.
Do you think they are not competently designed?
but perhaps the situation has changed in the years gone by.As you should see from the long list of versions starting from 0.3.0
in 1996.
If the MSP430 is anything like Atmel's 8-bit in the way the latter eat program memory then 64K starts to look underwhelming.
David Schultz <david.schultz@earthlink.net> writes:
FRAM seems almost perfect for embedded Forth on a small scale.http://davesrocketworks.com/electronics/msp430/eforth/index.html
Hey, that is nice. Any update about the Teensy version? The Raspberry
Pi Pico would also be a nice host for this Forth.
FRAM seems almost perfect for embedded Forth on a small scale.http://davesrocketworks.com/electronics/msp430/eforth/index.html
dxforth <dxforth@gmail.com> writes:
If the MSP430 is anything like Atmel's 8-bit in the way the latter eat
program memory then 64K starts to look underwhelming.
MSP430 code density is actually pretty good. It is a 16 bit cpu with architecture reminiscent of the PDP-11, with autoincrement and
autodecrement addressing modes and all that, but with 16 registers
instead of 8. The addressing modes are quite handy for implementing
stacks, threaded code interpreters, buffer pointers, and the like. It
is very nice for Forth with 16 bit cells. It has lost popularity
though, as people have moved on to 32 bit cpus.
...
It just so happens that my design encodes both >R R@ and DUP >R as a pair of 4-bit instructions, and both sequences execute in a total of 2 clock cycles no matter which slots they occur in.
I'm sorry that I got it confused with gforth, but at least I now know why.
On Thursday, March 4, 1999 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-6, Alex Bilyk wrote:
Great article. Good points.
I have got a book on Forth dated by 1988: 153 pages. Everything is in there: language, internals future ideas and examples. Simple and easy to understand. And now I have been looking at the ANS documents -- what a disappointment.
Although, I find ANS as an excellent scripting language specification. It is
rather resembling a language I got to know back in 1988 -- it was called FORTH.
AB
he...@albany.net wrote in message <7bje9c$k7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >Jeff's article contrasts ANS Forth with what Jeff
and Chuck call Machine Forth, "27 easy to learn
and understand Forth opcodes that take 2ns. We
took people who never learned ANSI Forth and taught
them Machine Forth in an hour and had them programming
an embedded wireless ethernet controller in it the
next day."
Most of us could spare an hour. Is there a teacher
in the house?
Anti Ansi Forth:
<http://www.UltraTechnology.com/antiansi.htm>
Leo Wong
I had been suggesting before, that colorforth (machine forth) could be made a subset of ANSI, to keep it alive, along with a embedded version, and simple and complex additions (I forget exactly what then was, but basically extensions to handle extrastuff on the job I think). All subsets of ANSI, so ANSI lite color, embedded, as seperate word sets). It's in the ANN: colorforth cf2022 thread.
Anyway, what do people think, and who is in control of Jeff's code?
On 14/04/2022 18:33, Wayne morellini wrote:stuff on the job I think). All subsets of ANSI, so ANSI lite color, embedded, as seperate word sets). It's in the ANN: colorforth cf2022 thread.
I had been suggesting before, that colorforth (machine forth) could be made a subset of ANSI, to keep it alive, along with a embedded version, and simple and complex additions (I forget exactly what then was, but basically extensions to handle extra
So ANSI should annex colorForth (for the latter's own good of course)? Nations play that game too.
Wayne morellini <waynemo...@gmail.com> writes:
Anyway, what do people think, and who is in control of Jeff's code?My guess is his widow is in control of the code, but it's probably more interesting to adapt its ideas than the code itself. aha was among
other things extremely compact, so writing something like it wouldn't be
a huge task.
I'd also say that aha took a completely different direction from ANS,
and there is not much possibility of merging the two. The same holds
for Colorforth, which starts out by getting rid of colon definitions,
highly non-ANS ;). The most you could do is adapt some ideas here and
there from both aha and Colorforth. Jeff was a fertile thinker and
reading his stuff is always inspirational, but I think his code was so specific to the environments he worked in, that trying to use it
directly wouldn't be fruitful. It's better to treat it as spiritual guidance.
Wayne morellini <waynemorellini@gmail.com> writes:
Anyway, what do people think, and who is in control of Jeff's code?
My guess is his widow is in control of the code, but it's probably more >interesting to adapt its ideas than the code itself. aha was among
other things extremely compact, so writing something like it wouldn't be
a huge task.
I'd also say that aha took a completely different direction from ANS,
and there is not much possibility of merging the two. The same holds
for Colorforth, which starts out by getting rid of colon definitions,
highly non-ANS ;). The most you could do is adapt some ideas here and
there from both aha and Colorforth. Jeff was a fertile thinker and
reading his stuff is always inspirational, but I think his code was so >specific to the environments he worked in, that trying to use it
directly wouldn't be fruitful. It's better to treat it as spiritual >guidance.
Anyway, this is futile talk, unless aha is somewhere available.
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 3:01:10 AM UTC-5, none albert wrote:Oh, go on?
Anyway, this is futile talk, unless aha is somewhere available.But it did induce some futile thoughts of my own but I will spare everyone. --
me
Colorforth, which starts out by getting rid of colon definitionsHi Paul,
This is an industry where just being different might scare people away.
So, you notice how I say, yeah, C file handling style in ANSI Forth.
And yeah, we should have a parallel better forth style as well, it's to get over this delusional timidity resistance problem. You can't less a horse
to drink, of whatever the saying was.
colorForth still has colon definitions -... They can be displayed
with a ':' if you select legacy/colour-blind mode ... Does that count?
Anti Ansi Forth:
<http://www.UltraTechnology.com/antiansi.htm>
Leo Wong
he...@albany.net
http://www.albany.net/~hello/
Oh, go on?
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 1:53:22 PM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
Oh, go on?
Ok, but just one.
Banking 101 or 'the game of musical chairs':
All enterprise are doomed to failure. Make the money while you can (investors playing the long shot), get out before the music stops
(investors wising up) and leave the debt to someone else, preferably
the tax payer.
--
me
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 4:34:09 AM UTC+10, S Jack wrote:
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 1:53:22 PM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
On Saturday, April 16, 2022 at 10:25:55 PM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 4:34:09 AM UTC+10, S Jack wrote:
On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 1:53:22 PM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
The game goes its way regardless of anyone's interest. Want to be a
player go with the game; otherwise, drop out or be left out.
Failure is often, period. The reasons matter not; they will be sundry
and varied like the weather.
Strategy doesn't win chess games. Your opponent won't be playing your
game. What wins is making the better moves for the situations at
hand.
Steve Job. Although the greatest superpower is luck, next is the gift
of gab. Skill is low on the list if there at all.
JavaScript as an interface, why? Forth has no interface problems.
Hardware interface is Forth's strong point and has nothing to do with
JS. All the web stuff, HTML XML SVG JSON etc., is just plain text.
Even Basic can handle that.
ANS is doing good just to meet its purpose, aiding a couple of vendors.
and a handful of contractor to cope with maintaining software on
variety of hardware. If it does that, well and good. Don't expect
people to drop what their working with and embrace Forth just because
it has a standard.
You just called SVG plain text
</script><g id="g001" transform="translate(180,180)" >
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 7:44:27 AM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
You just called SVG plain text
Yes, I did.
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<svg
xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
width="100%"
height="100%"
viewBox="0 0 640 480"
style="background-color:dimgray"
id="svg2"
version="1.1"
<script type="application/ecmascript"><![CDATA[
function clickOpacity(evt) {
var path = evt.target
var opacityValue = path.getAttribute("opacity");
if ( opacityValue == 0.0 )
path.setAttribute("opacity",1.0);
else
path.setAttribute("opacity",0.0);
}
</script><g id="g001" transform="translate(180,180)" >
<path
id="path001"
style="fill:silver;fill-rule:evenodd;stroke:none"
d="m 060, 040
100, -020
000, 100
-100, -020
z"
onclick="clickOpacity(evt);"
<path
id="path002"
style="fill:red;fill-rule:evenodd;stroke:none"
d="m 000, 020
60, 020
000, 060
-60, 020
z"
onclick="clickOpacity(evt);"
...
<path
id="path006"
style="fill:magenta;fill-rule:evenodd;stroke:none"
opacity="0.0"
d="m 000, 020
120, -020
000, 140
-120, -020
z"
onclick="clickOpacity(evt);"
</svg>
--
me
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 12:02:37 AM UTC+10, S Jack wrote:
On Sunday, April 17, 2022 at 7:44:27 AM UTC-5, Wayne morellini wrote:
You just called SVG plain text
Yes, I did.
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<svg
xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
width="100%"
height="100%"
viewBox="0 0 640 480"
style="background-color:dimgray"
id="svg2"
version="1.1"
<script type="application/ecmascript"><![CDATA[
function clickOpacity(evt) {
var path = evt.target
var opacityValue = path.getAttribute("opacity");
if ( opacityValue == 0.0 )
path.setAttribute("opacity",1.0);
else
path.setAttribute("opacity",0.0);
}
</script><g id="g001" transform="translate(180,180)" >
<path
id="path001"
style="fill:silver;fill-rule:evenodd;stroke:none"
d="m 060, 040
100, -020
000, 100
-100, -020
z"
onclick="clickOpacity(evt);"
<path
id="path002"
style="fill:red;fill-rule:evenodd;stroke:none"
d="m 000, 020
60, 020
000, 060
-60, 020
z"
onclick="clickOpacity(evt);"
...
<path
id="path006"
style="fill:magenta;fill-rule:evenodd;stroke:none"
opacity="0.0"
d="m 000, 020
120, -020
000, 140
-120, -020
z"
onclick="clickOpacity(evt);"
buttons icons and graphics over very low speed connections for my operating system project, and then to speed up the internet (the OS was meant to replace java and user side web scripting). Which, I'm not too happy about. No job interview, no</svg>
--https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/
me
Don't push it. It's a vector graphics language. It's origins, from the CSIRO graphics research lab patent, also used for flash, which came from a job application I submitted to the lab, with the idea attached, which so had come up with to transmit
On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 18:45:41 -0700 (PDT)
Kip Ingram <kip.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
Anti Ansi Forth:
<http://www.UltraTechnology.com/antiansi.htm>
Leo Wong
he...@albany.net
http://www.albany.net/~hello/
Jeff details some of the work on ANS Forth for P21 here:
http://www.ultratechnology.com/p21fchp3.html
It is a pity that Jeff's work is not dated, as then we might understand
how his opinions developed a little better.
The instruction set for the P21 is 1/3 way down this page:
http://www.ultratechnology.com/p21fchp9.html
Jan Coombs
--
Actually, I have a though[t] for an official open source Forth processor thread
Did Jeff ever reveal the instruction set for the F21? It would be good to examine his thinking on refining the instruction set, as he did a lot of simulation testing on it.
Actually, I have a though for an official open source Forth processor thread
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 1:07:02 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:[Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
Actually, I have a though[t] for an official open source Forth processor thread
Before you do that, I suggest that you:
a) install Icarus Verilog and learn to use it
b) define a version0 instruction set, CPU registers, and interface signals c) learn Verilog by achieving successful compilations of all your hardware definition modules
d) perform adequate Verilog simulations of all modules, including the top-level CPU
e) publish your Verilog source and test vector results
This will take some time.
- Myron
F21 Microprocessor Preliminary specifications 9/98
Code | Name | Description | Forth (with var named A) -----+------+------------------------------+--------------------------
00 | else | Unconditional jump | ELSE
01 | T0 | Jump is T0-19==0 | DUP IF
02 | call | Push PC+1 to R, jump | :
03 | C0 | Jump if T20 is false | CARRY? IF
06 | RET | Pop PC from R (return) | ;
08 | @R+ | Fetch from addr in R, inc R | R@ @ R> 1+ >R
09 | @A+ | Fetch from addr in A, inc A | A @ @ 1 A +!
0A | # | Fetch from PC+1, incr PC | LIT
0B | @A | Fetch from address in A | A @ @
0C | !R+ | Store to addr in R, inc R | R@ ! R> 1+ >R
0D | !A+ | Store to addr in A, inc A | A @ ! 1 A +!
0F | !A | Store to addr in A | A @ !
10 | com | Complement T | -1 XOR
11 | 2* | Left shift T, 0 to T0 | 2*
12 | 2/ | Right shift T, T20 to T19 | 2/
13 | +* | Add S to T if T0 is true | DUP 1 AND IF OVER + THEN
14 | -or | Exclusive-or S to T | XOR
15 | and | And S to T | AND
17 | + | Add S to T | +
18 | pop | Pop R, push to T | R>
19 | A | Push A to T | A @
1A | dup | Push T to T | DUP
1B | over | Push S to T | OVER
1C | push | Pop T, push to R | >R
1D | A! | Pop T to A | A !
1E | nop | Delay 2ns | NOP
1F | drop | Pop T | DROP
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 22:07:00 -0700 (PDT)
Wayne morellini <waynemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Did Jeff ever reveal the instruction set for the F21? It would be good to examine his thinking on refining the instruction set, as he did a lot of simulation testing on it.F21 Microprocessor Preliminary specifications 9/98
Code | Name | Description | Forth (with var named A) -----+------+------------------------------+--------------------------
00 | else | Unconditional jump | ELSE
01 | T0 | Jump is T0-19==0 | DUP IF
02 | call | Push PC+1 to R, jump | :
03 | C0 | Jump if T20 is false | CARRY? IF
06 | RET | Pop PC from R (return) | ;
08 | @R+ | Fetch from addr in R, inc R | R@ @ R> 1+ >R
09 | @A+ | Fetch from addr in A, inc A | A @ @ 1 A +!
0A | # | Fetch from PC+1, incr PC | LIT
0B | @A | Fetch from address in A | A @ @
0C | !R+ | Store to addr in R, inc R | R@ ! R> 1+ >R
0D | !A+ | Store to addr in A, inc A | A @ ! 1 A +!
0F | !A | Store to addr in A | A @ !
10 | com | Complement T | -1 XOR
11 | 2* | Left shift T, 0 to T0 | 2*
12 | 2/ | Right shift T, T20 to T19 | 2/
13 | +* | Add S to T if T0 is true | DUP 1 AND IF OVER + THEN
14 | -or | Exclusive-or S to T | XOR
15 | and | And S to T | AND
17 | + | Add S to T | +
18 | pop | Pop R, push to T | R>
19 | A | Push A to T | A @
1A | dup | Push T to T | DUP
1B | over | Push S to T | OVER
1C | push | Pop T, push to R | >R
1D | A! | Pop T to A | A !
1E | nop | Delay 2ns | NOP
1F | drop | Pop T | DROP
abridged from:
f21data__F21_PreliminarySpecifications_1998-09.pdf
It would be good to be able to put this family of chips in date order,Jan. Thank you again for your useful contribution. I'm not with it today, but I can examine this against the mup21, and see what changes had been made, and if the instruction ordering has changed for some sort of circuitry design optimisation.
and note which ones made it to fully working silicon.
The Mup21 was available in a PLCC44 package to buy in 1995. The video processor on the F21 is likely derived from the MuP21.
Actually, I have a though for an official open source Forth processor threadGood, even for commercial gain the open source route is probably most effective.
Jan Coombs
--
[Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
Why don't you go and do it, and contribute it back to the community.
Myron doesn't realise what I'm suggesting is not a design I would make, it is community. But it >never stops the never help, from bathing in and not contributing positively. My own designs are a >lot different and commercial, so a commercial agreementwould be needed for those to be used.
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:20:36 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:computing application domain, with a short list of email penpals to argue with.
[Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
Why don't you go and do it, and contribute it back to the community.I have published on multiple occasions over the past 20+ years via various "communities", but I don't expect you or anyone else to be aware of those efforts. Perhaps you have also published, but I'm not aware of it. I'm focused on the embedded
agreement would be needed for those to be used.Myron doesn't realise what I'm suggesting is not a design I would make, it is community. But it >never stops the never help, from bathing in and not contributing positively. My own designs are a >lot different and commercial, so a commercial
Hmm. If your own designs are "a lot different and commercial", why do you muse on ringleading "the community" to publish open source designs? I wish you luck on making money from any commercial designs you have up your sleeve.
- Myron
On Tuesday, April 19, 2022 at 1:39:29 AM UTC+10, Myron Plichota wrote:computing application domain, with a short list of email penpals to argue with.
On Monday, April 18, 2022 at 9:20:36 AM UTC-4, Wayne morellini wrote:
[Sarcastically] Oh yes. You think it's not about community, but you think it's all about me.
Why don't you go and do it, and contribute it back to the community.I have published on multiple occasions over the past 20+ years via various "communities", but I don't expect you or anyone else to be aware of those efforts. Perhaps you have also published, but I'm not aware of it. I'm focused on the embedded
agreement would be needed for those to be used.Myron doesn't realise what I'm suggesting is not a design I would make, it is community. But it >never stops the never help, from bathing in and not contributing positively. My own designs are a >lot different and commercial, so a commercial
don't have time for this stuff. It's just painful to see such stuff happening, and not being in a place to rectify it, year after year. We would be helped by open source, rather than waiting for me to put a number of patents in, and the 99% after that. IHmm. If your own designs are "a lot different and commercial", why do you muse on ringleading "the community" to publish open source designs? I wish you luck on making money from any commercial designs you have up your sleeve.
- MyronThat's doing it again. The community needs it, I'm not ring leading so to speak, it's up to them. My own stuff is going be very expensive, and last night I thought I was that close to something happening and potentially dieing in the hospital. So, I
Anyway, one or thing to note. Is that a video circuit, (even one like the mup21 had) and sound, storage and others, circuits, are basically performing a DMA function. If we turn things in there dude. We see that all these functions can be performed byan IO array circuit, that can be dynamically programmed for any line width, and phase signalling. As I've said before a few counters for timing, and you can set up the basic timings. This includes using popular serial phase dram memory and storage card
Anyway, better today, but closing down. The vaccine reaction inflammation treatment is wearing off. I hope somebody is I soured to look at better ways. Things are so bad at the moment, getting problems handling increasing equipment complications. It'sbound to be difficult turns lot of people, and we need alternatives.
Have a good day.
Dear Wayne,aware of is "the best" IMO.
I am truly sorry to read that you are having medical difficulties. I pray for your speedy recovery.
Trying to achieve a consensus on a Forth CPU hardware design is like herding cats. There have been many successful implementations on custom silicon and FPGAs. Each implementation has its pros and cons and design priorities, and none of them that I am
Forth attracts mavericks and team players with strong opinions, and clf is famous for verbal clashes. It is important to set achievable goals, and that's why I stick to the embedded MCU paradigm. We may wish for a Forth computer that rivals the *nix/gforth success on commodity PCs, with USB keyboards, mice, and flash drives and HDMI (or DisplayPort?) glorious graphics, but even assuming success after extreme development effort, the standards are liable to change, as they have over and over again in
- Myron
Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental ability
On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Wayne morellini <waynemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental abilityWow It took my partner 2 weeks to get over an actual Covid infection (of course she'd already had 3 shots of vaccine, but still she got it).
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 1:05:37 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote: >Well, you gave some nice examples. Dr Been goes only on YouTube (more on
that later)
and one can find absolutely ZERO information on the guy. He has been >associated with
a fringe groups like the FLCCC. He doesn't list ANY of the papers in his >YouTube posts.
Dr John Campbell is a nurse teacher (really!). None of these people have
any significant
credentials on the topics they discuss. He has added this disclaimer on
his YourTube
channel:
"Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles,
podcasts are not peer-reviewed.
They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own
health care provider.
No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as
professional medical advice.
All comments are also for educational purposed only and must never
replace advice from your
own health care provider".
Which is probably a good idea. Note that others (like MedCram) DO list
the papers involved on
their posts, so you can scrutinize them yourself to see if they're not >"cherry picking".
Which most ofConclusion there is no real information on youtube. "real scientist"
these charlatans do - knowing that most of their gullible audience won't bother.
In general - real scientists don't publish on YouTube. They publish
their papers in a well respected
scientific magazines - where they are peer reviewed, commented and - if
they really f-up, retracted.
Hans Bezemer
There is something seriously wrong with your logic faculties here.Where? Be specific - how many times do I have to say that "weasel speak" doesn't count?
I've noticed "cherry picking" before.
Shifting the attack to some other cheery picked avenue rather than addressing where you"Cherry picking" again - well, I'm glad I taught you something new. ;-)
are really wrong. It is a confusing mess, of over the top. I advise you to stop it.
You can take Campbell very seriously. He is one of few who can
relied upon. He tries to present serious information about covid
and youtube is working against him.
If you follow this channel, (and most people don't have the patience
to see a 30+ minute video, as needed to explain something thoroughly)
you will discover that he presents peer reviewed articles mostly.
He is a nurse teacher, that makes him eminently qualified toNot really - as showing above. Note I've probably read more ivermectine
explains them for a layperson.
There is nowhere in sight a serious criticism of his explanations,
merely badmouthing.
Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used toTwo fallacies in one go. First - "call to authority" (and a weak one at
say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
You are not an expert to say that MedCram is not cherry picking.Even if that were true, they DO consistently list their references. And that's what counts. If you want to debunk them you'll have a lot less work than debunking Campbell for that reason.
Apparently you don't follow Campbell. Mostly he explains officialYeah, I follow a guy who had access to ivermectine papers and STILL
messages from the authorities and leads you to peer reviewed articles.
You can not read and understand those articles in medical journals.Just try. Lots of statistics there. Should be a walk in the park for you -
With this big money involved, you can expect peer reviewed articlesAnother "association fallacy". If you wanna be a communist fanboy -
that say that the relation between cancer and smoking is dubious.
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 1:05:37 AM UTC+2, Wayne morellini wrote: Well, you gave some nice examples. Dr Been goes only on YouTube (more on that later)
and one can find absolutely ZERO information on the guy. He has been associated with
a fringe groups like the FLCCC. He doesn't list ANY of the papers in his YouTube posts.
Dr John Campbell is a nurse teacher (really!). None of these people have any significant
credentials on the topics they discuss. He has added this disclaimer on his YourTube
channel:
"Disclaimer; These media including videos, book, e book, articles, podcasts are not peer-reviewed.
They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider.
No media-based material on this channel is suitable for using as professional medical advice.
All comments are also for educational purposed only and must never replace advice from your
own health care provider".
Which is probably a good idea. Note that others (like MedCram) DO list the papers involved on
their posts, so you can scrutinize them yourself to see if they're not "cherry picking". Which most of
these charlatans do - knowing that most of their gullible audience won't bother.
In general - real scientists don't publish on YouTube. They publish their papers in a well respected
scientific magazines - where they are peer reviewed, commented and - if they really f-up, retracted.
Charlatans however, know they can't stand this scientific scrutiny - so they turn (exclusively) to
Facebook and YouTube, knowing they won't be challenged there.
I have taken up several of them in my time. Fun part is - the real scientists have no trouble engaging
you. The charlatans, however, remain completely silent.
Hans Bezemer
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 5:17:40 AM UTC+10, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:response, wherever from the disease itself or vaccines, where it could be like the Spanish flu, where even if you don't get a string initial reaction starting at about three months or more the autoimmune reaction becomes strong enough to give post covid
On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 10:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
Wayne morellini <waynemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
[]
Thank you guys. I seem to have gotten over 5 weeks lost to the covid jab, but now I have the mental abilityWow It took my partner 2 weeks to get over an actual Covid infection (of course she'd already had 3 shots of vaccine, but still she got it).
--(Note: Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional./
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
-----
Yeah, it's a reduce severity strategy, but the latest strains are different they have reduced severity severity and are starting to not affected much by vaccines. It turns out, the spikes themselves can produce a long term degrading auto immune
I met a nurse, who indicated a number of ways it gets to the blood stream, but in the noisy environment, I missed the list, one might have been from muscle to lymph system.
I had a lot of reactions off of this vaccine, likely due to leakage, and maybe not from failing to aspirate. An incredible amount. After being hit by the flu vaccine into the blood stream) I tried the regular vitamin C, and other things people use toget vaccine affects down. I would get up to 10 minutes of the swelling going down, up to 10 minutes of clear, and up to 10 minutes of the swelling coming back before the next safe maximum dose. Fortunately, the nurse above had told me about some
I got a lot of unusual effects off the novavax, and the doctor says that I will get an exemption for 3 months from getting another vaccine, but that I am better to wait until I am required to get another one, before getting the exemption, as you onlyget one exemption for 3 months of something, and I have somebody dieing in the nursing home to visit also.
Anyway, look up a Dr Been on YouTube due videos examining the research papers on covid and vaccines, and Dr John Campbell, who provides a slower lighter examination covid stuff. There are many videos, and only some of them pertain to vaccines, vaccinereactions and covid research. The official line, compared to the actual scientific research on these things, has been HS, over and over again, with many whistle blowers from medical professionals in trials, and official investigations. I'm going to
Don't rely on anything I report here, research it and talk to a qualified health professional. I am not a qualified health professional, or otherwise, and what I report shouldn't be relied upon.
Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
On 27/04/2022 23:57, albert wrote:
Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used toGiven money represents success, it's more likely fortunes are built
say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
in order to impress parents - particularly if the latter were also successful. Kerry Packer's media mogul father Frank had described
his son as "the family idiot". Rupert Murdock grew up in the shadow
of his famed newspaper magnate father Keith Murdoch. No matter the
system, sons are expected to prove their worth.
On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 2:44:29 PM UTC+10, dxforth wrote:
On 27/04/2022 23:57, albert wrote:
Given money represents success, it's more likely fortunes are built
Remember Covid vaccins is a billion euro's job. Marx used to
say that for 100% profit, a capitalist sell his mothers soul to
the devil. Expect to be worse things done to secure to
pharmaceutical profits that are unimagined in Marx's time.
in order to impress parents - particularly if the latter were also
successful. Kerry Packer's media mogul father Frank had described
his son as "the family idiot". Rupert Murdock grew up in the shadow
of his famed newspaper magnate father Keith Murdoch. No matter the
system, sons are expected to prove their worth.
Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.
Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.Certainly not for nothing - but what drives one to become 'one of the
richest men' if not insecurity?
On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 12:43:45 AM UTC-4, dxforth wrote:
Hard to think that about him. That guy didn't became one of the richest men in the country for nothing.Certainly not for nothing - but what drives one to become 'one of the
richest men' if not insecurity?
I think there are many forms of obsession that captivate people.
Forth programming could be one of them. :-)
Making ever larger sums of money is a game for many, with points
measured in currency. I had a decade of work in a fortune 500 corporation and making
dollars in that world is like making cakes for a baker.
It's what they know how to do so they do it.
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