• Re: TAWK 5.0

    From Kenneth Martin@21:1/5 to PaulCAnagnos on Tue Oct 12 03:13:03 2021
    I was a user of TAWK and would like to get the current version. Thanks.

    Any hope in getting Thompson Toolkit source?

    On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 5:58:31 AM UTC-5, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    I received the TAWK code base from Pat Thompson roughly four years ago. A friend an I have been enhancing it and are now up to version 6.6. If you were a Thompson customer before Pat closed up shop, I can send you a copy of v6.6. It runs only on
    Windows.

    ~~ Paul

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  • From Jeff Paranich@21:1/5 to PaulCAnagnos on Thu Apr 28 10:44:37 2022
    On Monday, 15 February 2016 at 03:58:31 UTC-7, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    I received the TAWK code base from Pat Thompson roughly four years ago. A friend an I have been enhancing it and are now up to version 6.6. If you were a Thompson customer before Pat closed up shop, I can send you a copy of v6.6. It runs only on
    Windows.

    ~~ Paul

    I know TAWK was a commercial product, many years ago. What's it going to take to get the source code public? It sounds like TAWK is at extreme risk of being lost forever as your post is now 6 years old without even a new closed-source release you've
    been working on. For all I know you (Paul), and Pat, are dead and the damage is done - TAWK is gone, never to be re-built or cross-compiled for Linux. Maybe at least consider selling the source for release, so that a group of individuals can group
    together and make this happen? It's not like keeping TAWK closed source is going to get an iota of financial gain in this day and age.

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  • From Kaz Kylheku@21:1/5 to Jeff Paranich on Thu Apr 28 20:14:13 2022
    On 2022-04-28, Jeff Paranich <jparanich@gmail.com> wrote:
    ^^^^^^^
    On Monday, 15 February 2016 at 03:58:31 UTC-7, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Please avoid necroposting, without an amunt of justification
    proportional to the "years old" parameter.


    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal

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  • From Kaz Kylheku@21:1/5 to Kenny McCormack on Thu Apr 28 20:52:44 2022
    On 2022-04-28, Kenny McCormack <gazelle@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
    In article <20220428131244.865@kylheku.com>,
    Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> wrote:
    On 2022-04-28, Jeff Paranich <jparanich@gmail.com> wrote:
    ^^^^^^^
    On Monday, 15 February 2016 at 03:58:31 UTC-7, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Please avoid necroposting, without an amunt of justification
    proportional to the "years old" parameter.

    Don't be silly. It does not become you.

    Why would silly become me, when it can just wait for me to become it?

    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal

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  • From Ed Morton@21:1/5 to Jeff Paranich on Thu Apr 28 15:21:32 2022
    On 4/28/2022 12:44 PM, Jeff Paranich wrote:
    On Monday, 15 February 2016 at 03:58:31 UTC-7, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    I received the TAWK code base from Pat Thompson roughly four years ago. A friend an I have been enhancing it and are now up to version 6.6. If you were a Thompson customer before Pat closed up shop, I can send you a copy of v6.6. It runs only on
    Windows.

    ~~ Paul

    I know TAWK was a commercial product, many years ago. What's it going to take to get the source code public? It sounds like TAWK is at extreme risk of being lost forever as your post is now 6 years old without even a new closed-source release you've
    been working on. For all I know you (Paul), and Pat, are dead and the damage is done - TAWK is gone, never to be re-built or cross-compiled for Linux. Maybe at least consider selling the source for release, so that a group of individuals can group
    together and make this happen? It's not like keeping TAWK closed source is going to get an iota of financial gain in this day and age.

    Not trying to be facetious, I just seriously want to know -

    1) Why try to keep using tawk instead of just using gawk or switching to
    some other tool that's currently still being actively developed,
    supported, and documented?

    2) If tawk has some features that gawk doesn't then why not put the
    effort into contributing support of such features to gawk instead of resurrecting tawk?

    3) Given we already have BWK awk, "one true awk", oawk, nawk, BSD awk,
    XPG awk, busybox awk, gawk, and maybe others I'm forgetting), is
    whatever tawk brings to the table really worth it to have yet another
    awk variant around to muddy the waters further on what an "awk" script is?

    Regards,

    Ed.

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  • From Kenny McCormack@21:1/5 to jparanich@gmail.com on Thu Apr 28 20:16:49 2022
    In article <2076db66-4ab7-425f-93cd-4df5502bbb59n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jeff Paranich <jparanich@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Monday, 15 February 2016 at 03:58:31 UTC-7, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    I received the TAWK code base from Pat Thompson roughly four years
    ago. A friend an I have been enhancing it and are now up to version
    6.6. If you were a Thompson customer before Pat closed up shop, I can
    send you a copy of v6.6. It runs only on Windows.

    ~~ Paul

    I know TAWK was a commercial product, many years ago. What's it going
    to take to get the source code public? It sounds like TAWK is at
    extreme risk of being lost forever as your post is now 6 years old
    without even a new closed-source release you've been working on. For
    all I know you (Paul), and Pat, are dead and the damage is done -
    TAWK is gone, never to be re-built or cross-compiled for Linux. Maybe
    at least consider selling the source for release, so that a group of >individuals can group together and make this happen? It's not like
    keeping TAWK closed source is going to get an iota of financial gain in
    this day and age.

    +1 (!)

    In particular, a Linux version should be the real target.
    Note that there always was a Solaris version (in addition to all the
    various DOS/Windows versions), so it is not like creating a Unix version
    would be a "de novo" effort. In fact, although I don't know this for sure,
    my reading of the tea leaves is that it was originally developed on Solaris
    and then ported/deployed to DOS (etc).

    There should be some way to make this happen.

    It would be a good thing to have 2 (rather than just 1) good AWK
    implementation available on Linux.

    --
    Donald Drumpf claims to be "the least racist person you'll ever meet".

    This would be true if the only other person you've ever met was David Duke.

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  • From Kenny McCormack@21:1/5 to 480-992-1380@kylheku.com on Thu Apr 28 20:19:04 2022
    In article <20220428131244.865@kylheku.com>,
    Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> wrote:
    On 2022-04-28, Jeff Paranich <jparanich@gmail.com> wrote:
    ^^^^^^^
    On Monday, 15 February 2016 at 03:58:31 UTC-7, PaulCAnagnos wrote:
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Please avoid necroposting, without an amunt of justification
    proportional to the "years old" parameter.

    Don't be silly. It does not become you.

    --
    In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue.
    -- Barack Obama --

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  • From Jeff Paranich@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 28 14:56:26 2022
    1) Why try to keep using tawk instead of just using gawk or switching to some other tool that's currently still being actively developed,
    supported, and documented?

    2) If tawk has some features that gawk doesn't then why not put the
    effort into contributing support of such features to gawk instead of resurrecting tawk?

    3) Given we already have BWK awk, "one true awk", oawk, nawk, BSD awk,
    XPG awk, busybox awk, gawk, and maybe others I'm forgetting), is
    whatever tawk brings to the table really worth it to have yet another
    awk variant around to muddy the waters further on what an "awk" script is?

    Regards,

    Ed.

    Not unfounded comments - but also perhaps for all the same reasons these arguments can justify why TAWK should be open source now, in the name of preservation if nothing else. I agree, nobody is going to take the source and run with it as a million
    dollar business - it would probably not have a single pull request - but it's terrible to lose such a significant piece of work. There are so many competitors (as you point out), there's probably not a huge motivation to extend TAWK; but certainly I
    think there would be users who'd love the re-compile it with the latest GCC and compiler optimizations, taking advantage of much newer architecture, and use it for their personal use. Alas; few of us have time to contribute to filling any gaps in Gawk,
    that TAWK had.

    Regarding "raising from the dead" old threads. It's zero-cost to you; newsgroups are hanging by a thread - be gracious, there are still people posting at all.

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  • From Kaz Kylheku@21:1/5 to Jeff Paranich on Thu Apr 28 23:25:46 2022
    On 2022-04-28, Jeff Paranich <jparanich@gmail.com> wrote:
    Regarding "raising from the dead" old threads. It's zero-cost to you; newsgroups are hanging by a thread - be gracious, there are still
    people posting at all.

    Someone replying to 8 year old posts probably deserves at least a
    heads-up, though. Next time I will just do that without the
    don't-do-that.

    --
    TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
    Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal

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  • From Ed Morton@21:1/5 to Jeff Paranich on Thu Apr 28 18:36:22 2022
    On 4/28/2022 4:56 PM, Jeff Paranich wrote:
    1) Why try to keep using tawk instead of just using gawk or switching to
    some other tool that's currently still being actively developed,
    supported, and documented?

    2) If tawk has some features that gawk doesn't then why not put the
    effort into contributing support of such features to gawk instead of
    resurrecting tawk?

    3) Given we already have BWK awk, "one true awk", oawk, nawk, BSD awk,
    XPG awk, busybox awk, gawk, and maybe others I'm forgetting), is
    whatever tawk brings to the table really worth it to have yet another
    awk variant around to muddy the waters further on what an "awk" script is? >>
    Regards,

    Ed.

    Not unfounded comments - but also perhaps for all the same reasons these arguments can justify why TAWK should be open source now, in the name of preservation if nothing else. I agree, nobody is going to take the source and run with it as a million
    dollar business - it would probably not have a single pull request - but it's terrible to lose such a significant piece of work. There are so many competitors (as you point out), there's probably not a huge motivation to extend TAWK; but certainly I
    think there would be users who'd love the re-compile it with the latest GCC and compiler optimizations, taking advantage of much newer architecture, and use it for their personal use. Alas; few of us have time to contribute to filling any gaps in Gawk,
    that TAWK had.

    I was really hoping you'd tell us what it is about tawk that you can't
    do in gawk (or some other awk or using some other tool) that makes it
    worth resurrecting tawk and adding yet another awk variant to the
    already too-large pool of available awk variants. You said "I think
    there would be users who'd love the re-compile it" - and I'm trying to understand why when other supported tools already exist to do whatever
    it is those people want to do. Resurrecting tawk because at one time it
    was significant in some way doesn't seem like a good reason but that may
    just be my opinion.


    Regarding "raising from the dead" old threads. It's zero-cost to you; newsgroups are hanging by a thread - be gracious, there are still people posting at all.

    I didn't say anything about that, that was another poster.

    Ed.

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  • From Mack The Knife@21:1/5 to jparanich@gmail.com on Fri Apr 29 08:23:52 2022
    In article <21502b9c-8539-4278-8cb9-58221c995af3n@googlegroups.com>,
    Jeff Paranich <jparanich@gmail.com> wrote:
    Not unfounded comments - but also perhaps for all the same reasons these >arguments can justify why TAWK should be open source now, in the name of >preservation if nothing else.

    This makes the most sense. It was an interesting and powerful program
    at the time, and interesting code is usually worth reading to learn from.
    (Even the gawk maintainer has revived old Unix code to make it more
    easily available for reading and for playing with [see his github].)

    It's unlikely that anyone would invest the effort to make tawk on
    Linux production worthy, but stranger things have happened. Although,
    without the source, we'll never know.

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  • From J Naman@21:1/5 to Mack The Knife on Fri Apr 29 17:23:21 2022
    On Friday, 29 April 2022 at 04:23:58 UTC-4, Mack The Knife wrote:
    In article <21502b9c-8539-4278...@googlegroups.com>,
    Jeff Paranich <jpar...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Not unfounded comments - but also perhaps for all the same reasons these >arguments can justify why TAWK should be open source now, in the name of >preservation if nothing else.
    This makes the most sense. It was an interesting and powerful program
    at the time, and interesting code is usually worth reading to learn from. (Even the gawk maintainer has revived old Unix code to make it more
    easily available for reading and for playing with [see his github].)

    It's unlikely that anyone would invest the effort to make tawk on
    Linux production worthy, but stranger things have happened. Although, without the source, we'll never know.

    re: "tell us what it is about tawk that you can't do in gawk"
    Not to beat a dead fish, but I always used TAWK to "compile" awk programs so end-users would not hack them. Obviously the "compiler" was a wrapper for the TAWK interpreter. I am NOT asking for the GNU volunteers to undertake that task. I just miss it ...
    There are a hundred things I can now do in gawk that I couldn't in tawk, circa 1999+.

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  • From Mack The Knife@21:1/5 to jnaman2@gmail.com on Sun May 1 08:38:29 2022
    In article <4fa43971-8699-4df2-9288-9a0b25a19316n@googlegroups.com>,
    J Naman <jnaman2@gmail.com> wrote:
    re: "tell us what it is about tawk that you can't do in gawk"
    Not to beat a dead fish, but I always used TAWK to "compile" awk programs
    so end-users would not hack them.

    This likely would never happen in gawk anyway, as it goes against the
    spirit of Free Software.

    I am NOT asking for the GNU volunteers to undertake that task.

    So then all is good. :-)

    There are other ways to accomplilsh that goal, anyway, they're just
    not so straightforward.

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